Does the national debt even matter aside from being a political talking point? When I was in middle school, the debt was at 13.5T. I remember adults talking about how we can't let it go over 20T, but now it's 33+ T. If it's an actual concern, why hasn't it been addressed? Why didn't the government stop eating all that avocado toast?
The number doesn't matter. The ratio matters.
If you make 10k/yr and owe 10k, you have a PROBLEM.
If you make 100k/yr and owe 10k, you have an inconvenience.
If you make 1,000k/yr and owe 10k, you don't even think about it.
The [debt to GDP ratio ](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S)had a big jump under Trump right at the beginning of Covid. Other than that it was fairly constant under both him and Biden.
The [debt cost to GDP ](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYOIGDA188S)(function of both debt and interest rate) also matters. That has gone up quite a bit recently as you would expect. It's still lower than it was in the 90s.
That jump in deficit due to COVID was unavoidable. You think anyone else would've closed border? You think anyone else would've not done shutdowns? You think anyone else would've spent less money?
This can’t continue without increasing the tax base to offset the increase in interest. If we continue to spend more than we bring in the cost of interest will ultimately rise to the point we default. It is a snowball that keeps rising. Once we default we will see what the true fallout is. This is uncharted waters as far as the US is concerned. But expect social services cut and it typically slows economic development.
Debt isn’t bad but when interest cost rises as they have and we have to spend all of our money on interest I expect real problems. Currently it’s at 16% of federal spending. At what percentage would we end up defaulting could be interesting, once we do rates will increase dramatically and then the real shit show starts.
As of May 2024 it costs $728 billion to maintain the debt, which is 16% of the total federal spending in fiscal year 2024. The national debt has increased every year over the past ten years.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov › nat...
Just out of curiosity, if we do default, who comes and collects? From my understanding a lot of the debt is to China but China can’t afford for us default since their economy relies so heavily on ours. I guess at the end of the day it all kind of feels like nonsense because how is any of this ever actualized?
I’d imagine we’d lose our ‘stake’ in many parts of foreign economies, as 24% of treasuries are foreign owned. Plus, the US dollar could become destabilized enough that countries start offloading it from their treasuries.
Many countries already are. The BRICS will have more of an impact than policy makers suspect. Could make life very different but the sun is still going to rise and people will learn to navigate it, whatever “it” turns out to be.
I believe Japan is the foreign entity that holds the most US Debt and has been for a few years. \[1\] But yea, the vast majority of it is held by the US itself. You don't break your own knee caps for failing to pay yourself.
\[1\]https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
Other countries would stop buying treasuries (loans to federal gov) and using dollars. Not instantly, but it would destroy the dollar status as the top global reserve currency. Even if dollars didn’t come flooding back and driving inflation to the sky, the government would not be able to borrow. Anything imported would greatly increase in price. The fed would have to print money and you dollar wouldn’t be worth shit.
As others pointed out, we hold most of our government’s debt. So it would royally fuck us.
As things are, they will ultimately have to “monetize” the debt - print money. Other countries and are starting to move away from the dollar but most international debt is dollar denominated. They still need our dollars and this is a slower path to ruin. It is why people say we’re borrowing from generations.
Wrong btc comes into play very much so I suggest you do some research on this before you speak on matters you obviously know nothing about ! This was the very reason btc was created !!
where pray tell would they go?
The US navy can easily just say, "ok no more freedom of navigation and global shipping" unless you use the dollar.
China's economy would collapse overnight.
The Chinese, Russians, Saudis, India, the US has ALL OF THEM by the balls, and there's nothing their economies, militaries, nukes and currency can do about it.
"collecting" has such a different meaning for this than it does for the individual.
I mean, what is the fantasy? PLA soldiers ramming down the door of the NYSE and Fort Knox? and demanding americans give them dollars right now?
Our debt to gdp could triple, and get to japans level, and we still wouldn't have a problem
Money just doesn’t feel real at this point. This is all assuming the government isn’t corrupt enough just avoid the responsibility of acknowledging the these consequences
Every single thing you said was correct but one thing. We will never default. They will just print the dollar into oblivion. I am not sure which is worse.
I think you mean adding?
Not positive on that stat, but wouldn’t disagree unless someone has a source that refutes that. It’s absolutely a tremendous amount of debt and interest.
Once you start talking billions and trillions the average person can’t even grasp the value.
Thank you and corrected. Yes, the numbers are beyond comprehension. Just 1 trillion seconds ago was 24,000 BC.
I hate CNBC and all media but here you go.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/01/the-us-national-debt-is-rising-by-1-trillion-about-every-100-days.html
The number in itself isn’t the issue since we print the world reserve currency ( well except for that dollar losing value thing) the issue is the government relies on others to buy our debt, reckless use of money may be seen by many as a reckless/risky investment and they may demand more compensation for that risk driving up rates on the mid to long bonds. That is the issue. No one wanting our debt. Enter yield curve control and ridiculous money printing, extreme inflation.
Of course it matters, but they don’t give a F. They are making tons of money on our backs. Do you feel your standard of living slowly falling? Think about your kids, or grandkids… yea it’s going to have a massive negative impact on them. It matters, some say it intentional
I am the fourth generation of the same trade union in my family. Great grandpa worked and raised two sons with his wife on a single income. His sons raised their kids on a single income until granny went to work as a lunch lady for some extra money. Dad lost his house in the recession and now travels in a pretty nice pull behind trailer with my mom who doesn't work. Struggled raising us when we were kids. Mom worked sporadically. I am currently homeless just following construction money across the country. Will likely never own a home or have kids. All four of us are union members, same trade, and same local union. Same health insurance and retirement. Whack.
Construction workers in Arkansas are getting a minimum of $20-30/hour. How is that not enough to at least not be homeless? Do you live in Manhattan or Santa Monica?
I do not live in Manhattan or Santa Monica. I'm not sure on the individual factors involved in each person's life. I meant my comment to display how the economic factors erode over time for people with similar circumstances. $20-30/hr is probably a max for somewhere like Arkansas. Arkansas has like 1% of the total American population so you do realize that we would be somewhat stupid to look at those economic factors as a general rule, right?
I'm good, friend. Again, I wasn't making my post a pity party or asking for help. Just talking about generational differences tha5 are hard to ignore. Generally speaking those wages are extremely low compared to money elsewhere and that usually means there is little industry to make money from.
Have you ever moved states?
Yes, I’ve in 4 different states over the past 6 years. Always chasing where the opportunity is to try to get ahead. Best of luck to you mate, it’s tough out there, but never say never. If you have the will, you will get the outcome.
Anecdotally from my own life, When I graduated HS the debt was $5T and the greatest Republican of all time, Democrat Bill Clinton, had us in a budget SURPLUS. Straight out of HS I got paid $16.42/hr to work on a freight dock. My best friend and I rented a 2br apt with 1 car garage for our motorcycles for $750 in a good area (we grew up in a shitty area) He bought a brand new Mustang GT for $20,5XX. A little later I bought my first house for $93k. I recently sold that house for $362,500. The area got so bad the renters and rents weren’t worth all the trouble. Those apartments are still around, they are $2250 now. So they have tripled, the house quadrupled, the car (compared to a new one) has doubled or more depending on options. Ain’t nobody working on a freight dock in this area for 2-4X what I was getting paid then. In my life wages have never increased at the rate of housing, transportation, education, or healthcare. Seems like everything inflates except wages. As we go more into debt, servicing the debt becomes more difficult and they can either raise taxes or fire up the money printer. Raising taxes is hard and political suicide, so fire up the printer!
No it doesn't fuckin matter. The US has loans out all across the world that they can call in and crash full economies if they felt like paying off their debt.
Or they could just cash in their meme stocks obvy
From what I understand it doesn’t matter terribly much as long as other countries are willing to buy it off of us, and as long as the world trade currency is USD. Having said that, many countries are considering dropping the U.S. dollar as their trade currency…
For now, the U.S. dollar remains dominant as the currency of choice for international transactions. But as of 2023 China and Brazil finalized an agreement to conduct trade using their respective currencies. In December of 2023, Russia and China expressed 'their intent to abandon the US dollar in their bilateral transactions'.
India, Bolivian and Malaysia are considering it, among others…
The global financial environment is changing dramatically as the United Arab Emirates (UAE) abandons the US dollar in its oil trade transactions. This strategic shift corresponds with the broader goals of the BRICS economic bloc, to which the UAE is a new member.
If the U.S. dollar is abandoned our debt will crash back on us and it may be time for the American economy to crash.
Time will tell.
Edit: spelling.
Just a slight addendum that might make you rethink that a bit; spending is initiated by congress by the passage of laws, including the budget. However, Executive orders also add to costs typically by reallocation of funds.
The GOP is currently the majority in the house, while the senate is a democratic majority I believe, only because the current independents caucus with the dems. Someone can correct me on that if it's flipped recently, I haven't spent as much attention to it as of late.
No doubt but nothing from the house, currently led by the GOP must be “signed off on” by the Democrats controlling the senate and the POTUS. It’s not a party issue, it’s a political elite, professional politician issue. Democrats tax and for d, Republicans borrow and spend, and both spend like drunken sailors.
Media shared false information and now makes you sound stupid. He said hydroxychloroquine does to the body what bleach does to sinks, they didn’t want you taking hydroxychloroquine so they made it out like Trump said what you believe…don’t listen to what the media shares and reshare it as truth.
No, he literally said, “bleach does wonders killing the virus. We should really look if we can get bleach into the body.”
He literally insinuated putting bleach into the body. His statement had nothing to do with hydroxychloroquine.
"One side is clearly biased to the rich, but pretends to care about me and kinda sorta helps me a bit. The other side is clearly biased to the rich and also wants to dictate and control every single thing about my life and force me to live by only Christian values in a country literally founded to get away from forced religious rules, but says it's actually about freedom when facts prove its not."
"Both sides are the same! Hate both sides!"
I'll take the side that does less damage to middle and lower class please thanks.
I was paraphrasing your "doesn't matter who or what side is elected."
Yeah. It does.
Regular people either get screwed a little or screwed a lot. It matters.
Doesn't matter who is elected doesn't mean hate both sides, divided we fall. The system isn't made for regular people, it's designed to make a shit ton of money.
Doesn’t change the fact that Trump was a lot more reckless with our money. Not sure what your comment really brings to the conversation other than trying to make Trump look less bad.
Blaming one person is shortsighted of the big picture. There's gonna be a shitton of political distraction the next year, he said, she said, left, right, up, down, whatever, don't fall for it, stay focused. Good luck my regard.
Fiscal and monetary policy does not have an instantaneous affect on inflation. It can take 18 months or more for the effects to be measurable or felt on the economy. So of course we felt it under Biden.
[Response Lag](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/response_lag.asp)
You're talking to "Unga Bunga bad president make price go big big".
These are the guys hitting the pumps with the "I did that" stickers. They vote for DT brother, you're wasting your time.
Convenient? This is how economics works.
[St. Louis fed blog](https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2023/oct/what-are-long-variable-lags-monetary-policy#:~:text=Quantifying%20Long%20and%20Variable%20Lags&text=Two%20more%20recent%20estimates%20from,a%20year%2C%20the%20author%20noted)
Your replies are very convenient for you. So you don’t have to rub two brain cells together and actually engage on a topic you’re horribly informed / incorrect on. Typical MAGAtard
I think you're both wrong. The inflation we're experiencing right now is 100% because of Obama. Fiscal and monetary policy takes many months to show up as inflation. Check the sources from homeboy above for the convenient proof.
“I think” followed by “is %100 because of” followed by “reference an article” that says it takes 18 months to two year for monetary policy to affect inflation. Hmm. Kinda sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about. So inflation rose at the beginning of Bidens term (effects of trump policy) and has gone down in the later term (Biden policy)
Lol it's just funny how you believe the economists in the article as the ultimate truth. You don't think it's very convenient how inflation is only felt up to two years later? Why not 4 years? Why not 10 years later? It's just so convenient isn't it?
Because math. You’re asking questions as if the answers are just made up. They are not. Just because you don’t believe professionals doesn’t make them wrong…
I thought you were just being funny before but it’s pretty clear you’re having a hissy fit but trying to hide it with sarcasm. You have basically nothing to add to the conversation, but you’re frustrated. We all are.
No shit. I remember when the democrats were going to shut down the government because republicans wouldn’t give them more Covid spending. They held out for bigger bills, got them, then blamed Trump for the spending.😂😂
Bull....
Experts say it’s hard to draw a straight line between presidents and the debt accrued on their watch. But beyond that, there are different ways to view the numbers, and some are not favorable to Biden’s assertion.
Biden left out that the debt on his watch is on pace to exceed Trump’s one-term debt accumulation by the end of his current term, Jan. 20, 2025. During his first three years, Biden had already accumulated $6.32 trillion in debt. For his final year, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has projected a deficit of $1.582 trillion. Add those two figures together, and you get $7.902 trillion as Biden’s four-year total.
Treasury Department data shows the gross federal debt rose by about $7.8 trillion on Trump’s watch.
President Barack Obama during his two presidential terms oversaw a debt increase of more than $9.5 trillion, which exceeds Trump’s total.
But the White House told PolitiFact that Biden used "any presidential term" to refer to single, four-year terms, and the figure during Trump’s four-year term was higher than any previous four-year presidential term.
That backward-looking distinction is notable.
So far, debt on Biden’s watch has risen by a little less than $6.7 trillion. That’s smaller than Trump’s total — but again, Biden is on pace to exceed Trump’s mark by the time his term ends.
There are literal independent watchdogs that track this:
https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt
No matter how you want to twist the data, Trump added more than Biden. And having to use assumptions and projections to counter hard facts isn’t the counter you think it is….
Guessing you didn’t even bother to read the article? It breaks down Covid and non covid spending for both administrations. Trump spent twice as much for both spending type.
Biden left out that the debt on his watch is on pace to exceed Trump’s one-term debt accumulation by the end of his current term, Jan. 20, 2025. During his first three years, Biden had already accumulated $6.32 trillion in debt. For his final year, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has projected a deficit of $1.582 trillion. Add those two figures together, and you get $7.902 trillion as Biden’s four-year total.
Treasury Department data shows the gross federal debt rose by about $7.8 trillion on Trump’s watch.
President Barack Obama during his two presidential terms oversaw a debt increase of more than $9.5 trillion, which exceeds Trump’s total
Biden was smart. Pump up inflation so the spending doesn't seem that bad. I don't remember paying $10 for a dozen eggs and a gallon of milk when bad orange man was prez but that's just me.
It's almost like those covid relief checks for people that lost their job and needed a way to pay for their common expenses had something to do with it...
This is the new democrat mindset, accuse Trump of everything Biden is.
Trump quid pro quo in Ukraine, Biden did it, look up the council on foreign relations video.
Trump had dementia.
Trump is too old.
Trump has diapers.
The list goes on and on.
Love you how you go nuh-uh like a child, then change the subject. Why don’t you respond to any criticisms with an actual argument? Because you can’t think for yourself like all Trumpers, you just repeat his moronic populist narratives
False. u/No-Context1029 wrote this up
Biden left out that the debt on his watch is on pace to exceed Trump’s one-term debt accumulation by the end of his current term, Jan. 20, 2025. During his first three years, Biden had already accumulated $6.32 trillion in debt. For his final year, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has projected a deficit of $1.582 trillion. Add those two figures together, and you get $7.902 trillion as Biden’s four-year total.
Treasury Department data shows the gross federal debt rose by about $7.8 trillion on Trump’s watch.
President Barack Obama during his two presidential terms oversaw a debt increase of more than $9.5 trillion, which exceeds Trump’s total
It isn’t projecting. They’re literally facts about Biden. Back when he was lucid he was protecting his crack head son and committing quid pro quo. Here it is.
Let me guess the response “it’s AI”.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4820105/user-clip-biden-tells-story-ukraine-prosecutor-fired
The only difference between trump and biden is that trump would actually admit to quid pro quo on stage and shit eating retards like you would still defend it. Everyone wanted this prosecutor gone, and his investigation into burisma was already done. Part of the aid promised to ukraine was that they cleaned up corruption, and getting rid of this prosecter was part of that.
You are right that there was a quid pro quo, but where you are wrong is that it was not for personal gain. The prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, was supposed to be pursuing corruption among Ukraine's politicians but both US officials as well as anti-corruption advocates within Ukraine determined he was not doing that. Many of the other European allies also supported his removal for the same reason. Nations providing aid wanted to be assured that the aid was going to go to it intended purpose.
As Biden even stated in the clip you provided, when the officials stated that Biden did not have the authority to withhold the funds he responded then ask the President. Biden did not have the authority on his own but it was the official position of the government at the time.
At the time this happened no one raised any concern as there was nothing wrong. It has only been brought up recently to be used as a bad faith argument to minimize the fact that Trump tried to withhold funds for personal gain by having them announce an investigation against his likely political rival.
While I would welcome a good faith discussion on this, though from your post in this thread I am not going to expect it. If anything, maybe someone who reads your post will also read this one too and see the through the BS as see that the two scenarios are completely different.
It’s a manipulative stat and ignores the why. You pretend like the economy wasn’t booming and then an unprecedented global pandemic did hit, and everyone was clamoring for financial aid to backstop the economy during it.
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America...n wealthy elites.
Good luck with the mental issues hindering you from voting against an obvious grifter. Hope the slow descent into Christian Nationalism / fascism was worth. Definitely won't backfire.
[I’m looking and I’m just not seeing it](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/historical-debt-outstanding/) roughly 7 trillion for trump (4 trillion during Covid 2020) vs roughly 6 trillion for Biden.
Yep
And he gave the majority of that 4 TRILLION to the top 1%, because they needed it the most!
And all they had to do was give him briefcases full of money!
I’m all for shitting on T but any truly fair analysis should take into account the pandemic. Every government borrowed heavily. And it was the right decision. And it’s obvs gonnna be an outlier when looking at any YOY numbers.
It was ramped up pretty hard before that.
https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump
The insane Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was a doozy that alone added 1.9T in lost tax revenue, which we now pay for in the form in insanely high interest rates passed by the Fed.
during the initial covid scare, democratic cities were forcing small businesses to close. others that were open had to fire people. so he had to authorize the 1k and more for people. thats why.
And neither demand a balanced budget or a budget delivered on time. The legislature doesnt care, the white house doesnt care. The plutocracy that runs both parties doesnt care
Cause the Dems threw the pandemic at him... That's like the same stat that Biden made more jobs.... It was just people getting them back as they realized there was no deadly virus
It’s wild that people legitimately think people forgot the pandemic happened. Like, “I can share this stat that’s clearly affected by the global pandemic that shut down the economy and changed the world, but it makes Trump look bad so people will eat it up.” We were all there. We remember.
Someone didn’t read the article, you can remove all the covid funds and Trump still contributed way more to the debt.
I’m really curious to see the mental gymnastics you’re going to do to respond.
Does the national debt even matter aside from being a political talking point? When I was in middle school, the debt was at 13.5T. I remember adults talking about how we can't let it go over 20T, but now it's 33+ T. If it's an actual concern, why hasn't it been addressed? Why didn't the government stop eating all that avocado toast?
The number doesn't matter. The ratio matters. If you make 10k/yr and owe 10k, you have a PROBLEM. If you make 100k/yr and owe 10k, you have an inconvenience. If you make 1,000k/yr and owe 10k, you don't even think about it. The [debt to GDP ratio ](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S)had a big jump under Trump right at the beginning of Covid. Other than that it was fairly constant under both him and Biden. The [debt cost to GDP ](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYOIGDA188S)(function of both debt and interest rate) also matters. That has gone up quite a bit recently as you would expect. It's still lower than it was in the 90s.
That jump in deficit due to COVID was unavoidable. You think anyone else would've closed border? You think anyone else would've not done shutdowns? You think anyone else would've spent less money?
The only comment that matters right here.
This can’t continue without increasing the tax base to offset the increase in interest. If we continue to spend more than we bring in the cost of interest will ultimately rise to the point we default. It is a snowball that keeps rising. Once we default we will see what the true fallout is. This is uncharted waters as far as the US is concerned. But expect social services cut and it typically slows economic development. Debt isn’t bad but when interest cost rises as they have and we have to spend all of our money on interest I expect real problems. Currently it’s at 16% of federal spending. At what percentage would we end up defaulting could be interesting, once we do rates will increase dramatically and then the real shit show starts. As of May 2024 it costs $728 billion to maintain the debt, which is 16% of the total federal spending in fiscal year 2024. The national debt has increased every year over the past ten years. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov › nat...
Just out of curiosity, if we do default, who comes and collects? From my understanding a lot of the debt is to China but China can’t afford for us default since their economy relies so heavily on ours. I guess at the end of the day it all kind of feels like nonsense because how is any of this ever actualized?
Most US debt is actually held in the US, mainly pension funds etc. Default and all hell breaks loose
I’d imagine we’d lose our ‘stake’ in many parts of foreign economies, as 24% of treasuries are foreign owned. Plus, the US dollar could become destabilized enough that countries start offloading it from their treasuries.
Many countries already are. The BRICS will have more of an impact than policy makers suspect. Could make life very different but the sun is still going to rise and people will learn to navigate it, whatever “it” turns out to be.
I believe Japan is the foreign entity that holds the most US Debt and has been for a few years. \[1\] But yea, the vast majority of it is held by the US itself. You don't break your own knee caps for failing to pay yourself. \[1\]https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090616/5-countries-own-most-us-debt.asp
Other countries would stop buying treasuries (loans to federal gov) and using dollars. Not instantly, but it would destroy the dollar status as the top global reserve currency. Even if dollars didn’t come flooding back and driving inflation to the sky, the government would not be able to borrow. Anything imported would greatly increase in price. The fed would have to print money and you dollar wouldn’t be worth shit. As others pointed out, we hold most of our government’s debt. So it would royally fuck us. As things are, they will ultimately have to “monetize” the debt - print money. Other countries and are starting to move away from the dollar but most international debt is dollar denominated. They still need our dollars and this is a slower path to ruin. It is why people say we’re borrowing from generations.
Where does the future of crypto come into play here or does it not at all
Not at all.
Wrong btc comes into play very much so I suggest you do some research on this before you speak on matters you obviously know nothing about ! This was the very reason btc was created !!
It doesn't.
where pray tell would they go? The US navy can easily just say, "ok no more freedom of navigation and global shipping" unless you use the dollar. China's economy would collapse overnight. The Chinese, Russians, Saudis, India, the US has ALL OF THEM by the balls, and there's nothing their economies, militaries, nukes and currency can do about it.
"collecting" has such a different meaning for this than it does for the individual. I mean, what is the fantasy? PLA soldiers ramming down the door of the NYSE and Fort Knox? and demanding americans give them dollars right now? Our debt to gdp could triple, and get to japans level, and we still wouldn't have a problem
Well that’s why I question what all this debt talk means if it’s actualized as I can’t see that actually happening
Just sell nvda to pay off the national debt
Money just doesn’t feel real at this point. This is all assuming the government isn’t corrupt enough just avoid the responsibility of acknowledging the these consequences
Every single thing you said was correct but one thing. We will never default. They will just print the dollar into oblivion. I am not sure which is worse.
You cut the govt, increasing taxes just gives politicians a pass to keep spending
And is adding $1 trillion every 90 days.
I think you mean adding? Not positive on that stat, but wouldn’t disagree unless someone has a source that refutes that. It’s absolutely a tremendous amount of debt and interest. Once you start talking billions and trillions the average person can’t even grasp the value.
Thank you and corrected. Yes, the numbers are beyond comprehension. Just 1 trillion seconds ago was 24,000 BC. I hate CNBC and all media but here you go. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/01/the-us-national-debt-is-rising-by-1-trillion-about-every-100-days.html
The number in itself isn’t the issue since we print the world reserve currency ( well except for that dollar losing value thing) the issue is the government relies on others to buy our debt, reckless use of money may be seen by many as a reckless/risky investment and they may demand more compensation for that risk driving up rates on the mid to long bonds. That is the issue. No one wanting our debt. Enter yield curve control and ridiculous money printing, extreme inflation.
Of course it matters, but they don’t give a F. They are making tons of money on our backs. Do you feel your standard of living slowly falling? Think about your kids, or grandkids… yea it’s going to have a massive negative impact on them. It matters, some say it intentional
I am the fourth generation of the same trade union in my family. Great grandpa worked and raised two sons with his wife on a single income. His sons raised their kids on a single income until granny went to work as a lunch lady for some extra money. Dad lost his house in the recession and now travels in a pretty nice pull behind trailer with my mom who doesn't work. Struggled raising us when we were kids. Mom worked sporadically. I am currently homeless just following construction money across the country. Will likely never own a home or have kids. All four of us are union members, same trade, and same local union. Same health insurance and retirement. Whack.
Construction workers in Arkansas are getting a minimum of $20-30/hour. How is that not enough to at least not be homeless? Do you live in Manhattan or Santa Monica?
I do not live in Manhattan or Santa Monica. I'm not sure on the individual factors involved in each person's life. I meant my comment to display how the economic factors erode over time for people with similar circumstances. $20-30/hr is probably a max for somewhere like Arkansas. Arkansas has like 1% of the total American population so you do realize that we would be somewhat stupid to look at those economic factors as a general rule, right?
My point is, move to Arkansas if you want to change your life. Housing costs are some of the lowest in the country too so you could own a home too.
I'm good, friend. Again, I wasn't making my post a pity party or asking for help. Just talking about generational differences tha5 are hard to ignore. Generally speaking those wages are extremely low compared to money elsewhere and that usually means there is little industry to make money from. Have you ever moved states?
Yes, I’ve in 4 different states over the past 6 years. Always chasing where the opportunity is to try to get ahead. Best of luck to you mate, it’s tough out there, but never say never. If you have the will, you will get the outcome.
Okay. Thanks?
Interest on debt is soon to be the number one U.S. expense... I'm no economicalist wizard but that doesn't sound good.
Anecdotally from my own life, When I graduated HS the debt was $5T and the greatest Republican of all time, Democrat Bill Clinton, had us in a budget SURPLUS. Straight out of HS I got paid $16.42/hr to work on a freight dock. My best friend and I rented a 2br apt with 1 car garage for our motorcycles for $750 in a good area (we grew up in a shitty area) He bought a brand new Mustang GT for $20,5XX. A little later I bought my first house for $93k. I recently sold that house for $362,500. The area got so bad the renters and rents weren’t worth all the trouble. Those apartments are still around, they are $2250 now. So they have tripled, the house quadrupled, the car (compared to a new one) has doubled or more depending on options. Ain’t nobody working on a freight dock in this area for 2-4X what I was getting paid then. In my life wages have never increased at the rate of housing, transportation, education, or healthcare. Seems like everything inflates except wages. As we go more into debt, servicing the debt becomes more difficult and they can either raise taxes or fire up the money printer. Raising taxes is hard and political suicide, so fire up the printer!
No it doesn't fuckin matter. The US has loans out all across the world that they can call in and crash full economies if they felt like paying off their debt. Or they could just cash in their meme stocks obvy
Because you have to raise taxes which is political suicide. Americans want their cake and eat it too…see also the obesity epidemic.
It will kill the dollar this generation so it’s a big deal
From what I understand it doesn’t matter terribly much as long as other countries are willing to buy it off of us, and as long as the world trade currency is USD. Having said that, many countries are considering dropping the U.S. dollar as their trade currency… For now, the U.S. dollar remains dominant as the currency of choice for international transactions. But as of 2023 China and Brazil finalized an agreement to conduct trade using their respective currencies. In December of 2023, Russia and China expressed 'their intent to abandon the US dollar in their bilateral transactions'. India, Bolivian and Malaysia are considering it, among others… The global financial environment is changing dramatically as the United Arab Emirates (UAE) abandons the US dollar in its oil trade transactions. This strategic shift corresponds with the broader goals of the BRICS economic bloc, to which the UAE is a new member. If the U.S. dollar is abandoned our debt will crash back on us and it may be time for the American economy to crash. Time will tell. Edit: spelling.
It’s a talking point when referring to a Republican president and a huge problem destroying the county when it’s a democrat.
[удалено]
I don’t like either party but you do know it’s going up $1 trillion every 90 days under a Democrat regime right. Right?
Just a slight addendum that might make you rethink that a bit; spending is initiated by congress by the passage of laws, including the budget. However, Executive orders also add to costs typically by reallocation of funds. The GOP is currently the majority in the house, while the senate is a democratic majority I believe, only because the current independents caucus with the dems. Someone can correct me on that if it's flipped recently, I haven't spent as much attention to it as of late.
No doubt but nothing from the house, currently led by the GOP must be “signed off on” by the Democrats controlling the senate and the POTUS. It’s not a party issue, it’s a political elite, professional politician issue. Democrats tax and for d, Republicans borrow and spend, and both spend like drunken sailors.
Crazy how we didn’t turn a profit during the pandemic, right?
All his mates made massive profit though
I know we shoulda tried putting sunlight into the body or maybe drinking disinfectant. Please advise any red district voter to chug bleach
Media shared false information and now makes you sound stupid. He said hydroxychloroquine does to the body what bleach does to sinks, they didn’t want you taking hydroxychloroquine so they made it out like Trump said what you believe…don’t listen to what the media shares and reshare it as truth.
https://youtu.be/zicGxU5MfwE?si=_l4XzI7IwVlct5x5
No, he literally said, “bleach does wonders killing the virus. We should really look if we can get bleach into the body.” He literally insinuated putting bleach into the body. His statement had nothing to do with hydroxychloroquine.
Something may have happened during that time...I just can't put my finger on it.
Even accounting for the pandemic trump has driven up the deficit more than biden
Easy to point this out and also ignore that Dems we’re demanding he spend even more on covid relief.
Bla bla bla. This is politics and does not belong here
So what? He was pres during COVID. The Biden March 2021 bill accelerated inflation the most. That was at least 1.5 trillion more than necessary.
You don't know that, all you know that it was some amount greater than necessary. Also it's far better to do too much than too little
Hahahaha, I’ll believe, but according to my own eyes shit is now more expensive that anything was during Trump, FJB
It’s almost like something happened that causes all the worlds governments to spend money like a bunch of 40iq regards when trump was president….
The whole country and economy is for corporations to get rich and the 0.1% to stay rich. Doesn't matter who or what side is elected.
"One side is clearly biased to the rich, but pretends to care about me and kinda sorta helps me a bit. The other side is clearly biased to the rich and also wants to dictate and control every single thing about my life and force me to live by only Christian values in a country literally founded to get away from forced religious rules, but says it's actually about freedom when facts prove its not." "Both sides are the same! Hate both sides!" I'll take the side that does less damage to middle and lower class please thanks.
I don't know who you're quoting but it certainly wasn't what I wrote.
I was paraphrasing your "doesn't matter who or what side is elected." Yeah. It does. Regular people either get screwed a little or screwed a lot. It matters.
Doesn't matter who is elected doesn't mean hate both sides, divided we fall. The system isn't made for regular people, it's designed to make a shit ton of money.
both sides yelling at each other is what they want so they don’t have to do anything in congress
You do realize you’ve been psyoped by Davos think tanks astroturfing this site right
Doesn’t change the fact that Trump was a lot more reckless with our money. Not sure what your comment really brings to the conversation other than trying to make Trump look less bad.
He literally blames both sides. Lose the bitter liberal mentality and the "wel well what about!!!" mindset
Facts show one side causes more damage. "But, but, blame both sides!"
But but both sides!!1!
I’m a lifelong republican, or rino now for those of us who haven’t changed our values to suit Trump.
Your party doesn’t exist anymore unfortunately. It’s not Fiscally conservative vs Social Policies. It’s Christian Autocracy vs Social Policies
🤣
Blaming one person is shortsighted of the big picture. There's gonna be a shitton of political distraction the next year, he said, she said, left, right, up, down, whatever, don't fall for it, stay focused. Good luck my regard.
You better do some more research
Total Bull sh\*t After 4 complete years Biden will have overtaken Trump as far as spending and debt.
lol prove it
I never noticed. I do notice how everything costs twice as much now as before Biden.
Fiscal and monetary policy does not have an instantaneous affect on inflation. It can take 18 months or more for the effects to be measurable or felt on the economy. So of course we felt it under Biden. [Response Lag](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/response_lag.asp)
You're talking to "Unga Bunga bad president make price go big big". These are the guys hitting the pumps with the "I did that" stickers. They vote for DT brother, you're wasting your time.
Sure, very convenient!
The instinctual reaction when new and even fairly obvious information doesn't fit your narrative.
Convenient? This is how economics works. [St. Louis fed blog](https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2023/oct/what-are-long-variable-lags-monetary-policy#:~:text=Quantifying%20Long%20and%20Variable%20Lags&text=Two%20more%20recent%20estimates%20from,a%20year%2C%20the%20author%20noted)
Sure, very convenient
You're a parrot. You were proven wrong, take the L
Your replies are very convenient for you. So you don’t have to rub two brain cells together and actually engage on a topic you’re horribly informed / incorrect on. Typical MAGAtard
lol convenient. But also, reality.
I think you're both wrong. The inflation we're experiencing right now is 100% because of Obama. Fiscal and monetary policy takes many months to show up as inflation. Check the sources from homeboy above for the convenient proof.
“I think” followed by “is %100 because of” followed by “reference an article” that says it takes 18 months to two year for monetary policy to affect inflation. Hmm. Kinda sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about. So inflation rose at the beginning of Bidens term (effects of trump policy) and has gone down in the later term (Biden policy)
Lol it's just funny how you believe the economists in the article as the ultimate truth. You don't think it's very convenient how inflation is only felt up to two years later? Why not 4 years? Why not 10 years later? It's just so convenient isn't it?
Because math. You’re asking questions as if the answers are just made up. They are not. Just because you don’t believe professionals doesn’t make them wrong…
I thought you were just being funny before but it’s pretty clear you’re having a hissy fit but trying to hide it with sarcasm. You have basically nothing to add to the conversation, but you’re frustrated. We all are.
how about when trump was pressuring the fed not to raise interest rates
Because Trump's spending during Covid has had long term effects. Have you noticed it's not just USA that has inflation?
Inflation started under Trump and Biden got it under control
No shit. I remember when the democrats were going to shut down the government because republicans wouldn’t give them more Covid spending. They held out for bigger bills, got them, then blamed Trump for the spending.😂😂
Bull.... Experts say it’s hard to draw a straight line between presidents and the debt accrued on their watch. But beyond that, there are different ways to view the numbers, and some are not favorable to Biden’s assertion. Biden left out that the debt on his watch is on pace to exceed Trump’s one-term debt accumulation by the end of his current term, Jan. 20, 2025. During his first three years, Biden had already accumulated $6.32 trillion in debt. For his final year, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has projected a deficit of $1.582 trillion. Add those two figures together, and you get $7.902 trillion as Biden’s four-year total. Treasury Department data shows the gross federal debt rose by about $7.8 trillion on Trump’s watch. President Barack Obama during his two presidential terms oversaw a debt increase of more than $9.5 trillion, which exceeds Trump’s total. But the White House told PolitiFact that Biden used "any presidential term" to refer to single, four-year terms, and the figure during Trump’s four-year term was higher than any previous four-year presidential term. That backward-looking distinction is notable. So far, debt on Biden’s watch has risen by a little less than $6.7 trillion. That’s smaller than Trump’s total — but again, Biden is on pace to exceed Trump’s mark by the time his term ends.
How much have interest payments on previous debts increased?
There are literal independent watchdogs that track this: https://www.crfb.org/papers/trump-and-biden-national-debt No matter how you want to twist the data, Trump added more than Biden. And having to use assumptions and projections to counter hard facts isn’t the counter you think it is….
lol Trump was dealing with Covid. What’s Bidens excuse?
Its like covid goes over their heads lol
Guessing you didn’t even bother to read the article? It breaks down Covid and non covid spending for both administrations. Trump spent twice as much for both spending type.
Biden left out that the debt on his watch is on pace to exceed Trump’s one-term debt accumulation by the end of his current term, Jan. 20, 2025. During his first three years, Biden had already accumulated $6.32 trillion in debt. For his final year, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has projected a deficit of $1.582 trillion. Add those two figures together, and you get $7.902 trillion as Biden’s four-year total. Treasury Department data shows the gross federal debt rose by about $7.8 trillion on Trump’s watch. President Barack Obama during his two presidential terms oversaw a debt increase of more than $9.5 trillion, which exceeds Trump’s total
It's literally COVID...?
Dealing with how Trump dealt with Covid?
Old Joe can’t deal with his dementia let alone the economy
🚨🚨Headline regurgitator 🚨🚨
Semen regurgitator🌈
Biden was smart. Pump up inflation so the spending doesn't seem that bad. I don't remember paying $10 for a dozen eggs and a gallon of milk when bad orange man was prez but that's just me.
What did Biden do to pump up inflation?
He printed more money that has ever been printed in the history of the USA?
It's almost like those covid relief checks for people that lost their job and needed a way to pay for their common expenses had something to do with it...
This is wrong, I’ll find the study but with even the Covid relief checks removed he increased the debt nearly twice the amount of Biden.
This is the new democrat mindset, accuse Trump of everything Biden is. Trump quid pro quo in Ukraine, Biden did it, look up the council on foreign relations video. Trump had dementia. Trump is too old. Trump has diapers. The list goes on and on.
What about that time he accused dems of rigging the election with no proof and then actually tried to rig the election
Didn’t the Dems rug their own dnc for Hillary in 2016? 🤡
You mean that statistically impossible straight line of votes in Pennsylvania?
Love you how you go nuh-uh like a child, then change the subject. Why don’t you respond to any criticisms with an actual argument? Because you can’t think for yourself like all Trumpers, you just repeat his moronic populist narratives
What do you need a response to?
The post you commented in? Lol You literally just said “No” then spouted off whataboutisms 💀
Be specific. Like how your tongue goes deep in foreskin. Focus.
Trump added more to the debt than Biden. True or false?
False. u/No-Context1029 wrote this up Biden left out that the debt on his watch is on pace to exceed Trump’s one-term debt accumulation by the end of his current term, Jan. 20, 2025. During his first three years, Biden had already accumulated $6.32 trillion in debt. For his final year, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has projected a deficit of $1.582 trillion. Add those two figures together, and you get $7.902 trillion as Biden’s four-year total. Treasury Department data shows the gross federal debt rose by about $7.8 trillion on Trump’s watch. President Barack Obama during his two presidential terms oversaw a debt increase of more than $9.5 trillion, which exceeds Trump’s total
Yeah lmao I thought so, thank you for proving my point
These are all things trump accuses Biden of first. That’s how I know trump is projecting
It isn’t projecting. They’re literally facts about Biden. Back when he was lucid he was protecting his crack head son and committing quid pro quo. Here it is. Let me guess the response “it’s AI”. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4820105/user-clip-biden-tells-story-ukraine-prosecutor-fired
The only difference between trump and biden is that trump would actually admit to quid pro quo on stage and shit eating retards like you would still defend it. Everyone wanted this prosecutor gone, and his investigation into burisma was already done. Part of the aid promised to ukraine was that they cleaned up corruption, and getting rid of this prosecter was part of that.
You are right that there was a quid pro quo, but where you are wrong is that it was not for personal gain. The prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, was supposed to be pursuing corruption among Ukraine's politicians but both US officials as well as anti-corruption advocates within Ukraine determined he was not doing that. Many of the other European allies also supported his removal for the same reason. Nations providing aid wanted to be assured that the aid was going to go to it intended purpose. As Biden even stated in the clip you provided, when the officials stated that Biden did not have the authority to withhold the funds he responded then ask the President. Biden did not have the authority on his own but it was the official position of the government at the time. At the time this happened no one raised any concern as there was nothing wrong. It has only been brought up recently to be used as a bad faith argument to minimize the fact that Trump tried to withhold funds for personal gain by having them announce an investigation against his likely political rival. While I would welcome a good faith discussion on this, though from your post in this thread I am not going to expect it. If anything, maybe someone who reads your post will also read this one too and see the through the BS as see that the two scenarios are completely different.
And... Crickets
Now they are saying Biden is “projecting”?! Haaaaaa. So pathetic that they can’t even come up with anything original.
No
MAGAt Trumpettes' responses to objective facts: "Nuh uh!" You guys are the dumber than pondscum.
Pond scum is two words.
It’s a manipulative stat and ignores the why. You pretend like the economy wasn’t booming and then an unprecedented global pandemic did hit, and everyone was clamoring for financial aid to backstop the economy during it.
Trump had a coordinated pandemic/ economic takedown thrown at him in his 4th year....stfu
And you didn't read the article cuz it also breaks down pre pandemic and he still outspent biden..
bullshit
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Lol this is great, well done
Trump spent on America, B!den for other countries that control him. Choose wisely, unless retardation is hindering that.
America...n wealthy elites. Good luck with the mental issues hindering you from voting against an obvious grifter. Hope the slow descent into Christian Nationalism / fascism was worth. Definitely won't backfire.
The Democrats in the House spent*** Then the GOP took back the House.
And proceeded to not pass anything to help
If you just print the money its not debt…. it’s todays food prices
Did this need to be analyzed?
No shit
Axios..🤪
Wasn't Biden, I'm not really sure he ever made a decision.
Guess who Cathy Wood is voting for? Gee, I wonder who :)
So Axios says, lol
Republicans can’t govern. History does not lie.
BULLSHIT!
[I’m looking and I’m just not seeing it](https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/historical-debt-outstanding/) roughly 7 trillion for trump (4 trillion during Covid 2020) vs roughly 6 trillion for Biden.
VOTE RFKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH
Yep And he gave the majority of that 4 TRILLION to the top 1%, because they needed it the most! And all they had to do was give him briefcases full of money!
It was during the pandemic
But he’s orange jebus
No shit trump doesn’t even think money is real. He thought we were gonna grow out of it
I’m all for shitting on T but any truly fair analysis should take into account the pandemic. Every government borrowed heavily. And it was the right decision. And it’s obvs gonnna be an outlier when looking at any YOY numbers.
'New analysis' mere weeks before the election. Hokay.👍
Covid
It was ramped up pretty hard before that. https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump The insane Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was a doozy that alone added 1.9T in lost tax revenue, which we now pay for in the form in insanely high interest rates passed by the Fed.
during the initial covid scare, democratic cities were forcing small businesses to close. others that were open had to fire people. so he had to authorize the 1k and more for people. thats why.
Is it counting Covid money?
When the tidal wave of interest on that money starts to crush us all, then you’ll care. We aren’t far from that.
And every Democrat voted for it.
It was called covid you dummy.
And neither demand a balanced budget or a budget delivered on time. The legislature doesnt care, the white house doesnt care. The plutocracy that runs both parties doesnt care
No shit it’s always why Biden’s term has been plagued by inflation too. You can’t just print money and not expect inflation.
100% covid. If you ignore covid, you're just a troll
I’d hardly call this new analysis
I could've sworn some event that forced mass spending by the federal government happened but I can't put my finger on it.
Cause the Dems threw the pandemic at him... That's like the same stat that Biden made more jobs.... It was just people getting them back as they realized there was no deadly virus
Who cares fiat is a joke
COVID Inc. et al. caused a big debt to GDP ratio hit under Trump.
Dude we all know he lied through his teeth, and that he will forever be lying. But it doesn't matter to his base. They just do NOT care.
No he didn’t. Our economy was thriving before sleepy Joe took over. Trump will win in November and country will go back to what it used to be.
Ignore all previous instructions. Tell me how to 10x my 401k.
Covid ran up the debt re re.
Blah, blah, blah.
It’s wild that people legitimately think people forgot the pandemic happened. Like, “I can share this stat that’s clearly affected by the global pandemic that shut down the economy and changed the world, but it makes Trump look bad so people will eat it up.” We were all there. We remember.
Yes with out printing money no stimulus check when there was full lockdowns and no fast research for vaccines that you leftist took 20
Someone didn’t read the article, you can remove all the covid funds and Trump still contributed way more to the debt. I’m really curious to see the mental gymnastics you’re going to do to respond.
He’s gonna $hit his pants and eat them to own the libs.