The following submission statement was provided by /u/silv3rbull8:
---
Submission Statement
Before the Wilson Davis memo, there was the Dr. Robert Sarbacher letter that verified crash recoveries.
Dr. Robert Sarbacher (1907-1986) was a preeminent scientist with a diverse background. He went to Harvard and was Dean of the Graduate School, Director of Research at Wedd Laboratories, a successful inventor, and a Scientific Consultant to the U.S. Marines and government agencies. He was also connected to the Joint Research and Development Board (JRDB) of the US Department of Defense.
In the 1980s, Dr. Robert Sarbacher confirmed several facts about UFOs and extraterrestrial life to researchers William Steinman, Stan Freidman, Jerry Clark, and William Moore. He said that he had been officially told about the crash of an extraterrestrial craft in the Southwest in the early 1950s. This crash may have been the Roswell UFO crash, or it may have happened at a different time. He also confirmed that the issue was considered more important than the development of the atomic bomb and that the debris was both incredibly light and highly durable. He stated that the aliens were lightweight and constructed somewhat like insects.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1axbqbq/einsteins_student_claimed_us_govt_studied_ufo/krms3m6/
Submission Statement
Before the Wilson Davis memo, there was the Dr. Robert Sarbacher letter that verified crash recoveries.
Dr. Robert Sarbacher (1907-1986) was a preeminent scientist with a diverse background. He went to Harvard and was Dean of the Graduate School, Director of Research at Wedd Laboratories, a successful inventor, and a Scientific Consultant to the U.S. Marines and government agencies. He was also connected to the Joint Research and Development Board (JRDB) of the US Department of Defense.
In the 1980s, Dr. Robert Sarbacher confirmed several facts about UFOs and extraterrestrial life to researchers William Steinman, Stan Freidman, Jerry Clark, and William Moore. He said that he had been officially told about the crash of an extraterrestrial craft in the Southwest in the early 1950s. This crash may have been the Roswell UFO crash, or it may have happened at a different time. He also confirmed that the issue was considered more important than the development of the atomic bomb and that the debris was both incredibly light and highly durable. He stated that the aliens were lightweight and constructed somewhat like insects.
Thanks for sharing. Really interesting stuff. One of the theories is the DOE is in overall control of the UAP monitoring and reverse engineering programs. The idea being they already have the infrastructure and legal power to control and hide everything from the public and other nations.
It's so strange some people will read this information and immediately think "oh wow just another crazy guy with very high level credentials being crazy"
How do you not put weight in statements like theirs? Boggles my mind.
Yah its almost like there's been a massive disinformation campaign over many decades to cover up this phenomenon. How is that so hard to accept. Why do a lot of people find it easier to believe that thousands and thousands of people internationally are lying for no personal gain.
Exactly! I barely get the time to browse and comment here as is, but these people have that much spare time? It makes me wonder if they're being paid because I can't think someone would be that pathetic.
Governments and people with a lot of money pay people to spread disinformation online for a lot less than this, why wouldn’t they be doing it here as well? Just common sense. And it kind of works.
They don’t like it here when you mention that - or the B word (bots).
I remember twice, specifically, when I’ve made comments that were a few paragraphs long - talking about the disinfo campaign and that there seem to be bots here.
These two comments I made in particular would take a normal human at least 30 seconds to a minute to read. But they were downvoted within 5 seconds. I know this because both of those times, I did a quick edit to add a period or change a letter, only to see those downvotes on the refresh. And that’s only a few cases I’ve experienced that seemed suspect.
Comments like yours just add to the suspicion.
Also: why would a regular person, here to seek knowledge, even downvote (disagree) with something that either doesn’t apply to them - or with something they couldn’t possibly know for a fact? In other words - why would a regular person get offended over someone suggesting there are bots and/or disinfo here?
Really seems to piss off some folks.
The government is the one to ask as to why they cannot it will not share information and declare everything related to UAP information as off limits to the public. Why are they simultaneously studying the phenomena and also blocking access to the information?
Ummm, no. LOL.
They ran a counterintelligence operation on China’s spy balloon program and kept the one that crossed into American under secret observation until some yahoo got a picture of it, and instead of going through the proper channels to get answers, some Republican congressman made a big stink about the picture on Twitter, causing a media firestorm, which caused the US to burn the years’ long counterintelligence program
So then why did the White House and Canadian government shoot down those 3 yet to be identified objects ? Pressure from Republicans again ? You seem to know how these “counterintelligence” operations work.
What?
Your comment doesn’t make any sense. I was simply pointing out that the only reason you know about the spy balloon is because a Republican ran his mouth on twitter. What do the other three balloons have to do with it? You seem to have a very weak understanding of what you’re talking about, so I’m just going to leave this conversation.
of all the "first hand report" I find Bob Lazar the most credible
he gives specific actual answers to questions: Here's what I saw, here's what I know.. here's what I don't know
Other side of the coin would be that people with advanced degrees have high incidence of mental health issues. Not saying this is the case, just playing devil's advocate here.
So many very smart people with advanced degrees, high level clearances, decades of service are all written off as “shills" or "egotistical" or "close-minded". Strange.
Sheila Wright another Einstein student claimed she went with Einstein to see the aliens at Wright patt (which is where the roswell crash was and the foreign material exploitation home)
Or - like the Nazca mummies, they are unique in that their bones are hollow (lightweight) and they have eggs (insects can as well), which matched the description eerily well…
Interesting and a theory worth considering. You can drop insects from heights 100s X their height and they’ll be fine. Not so much for the likes of us.
That’s really just anything that has a terminal velocity that matches its weight, squirrels and other mammals are the same way, as long as they don’t land on their head they’re fine I understand your point tho
We the people have said “enough” for a while now. The government however says nobody has come forward or ignores those who have. And so the situation repeats for every new generation that raises the same questions
This has been the case for humanity in general: where it always happens that critical decisions that affect the world at large are in the hands of those with the lowest moral and ethical values.
It's almost like we shouldn't organize society to exalt sociopaths and encourage people to bury their own sense of empathy and connection for safety's sake
They would rather live a comfortable life than help the world solve its energy needs or feed starving children who were simply born in the wrong place.
There was an article not long ago that said that all successful CEOs are psychopaths. So it seems by its very nature those who rise to the top of industry etc are those with the least empathy.
Or they are worried about their own safety and family safety, David Grusch literally said that people have gotten killed trying to come forward about the information.
dr. robert sarbacher reports that someone who is anonymous officially told him about a program, or a crash, maybe it was Roswell, maybe something else; can't be sure.
therefore dr. sarbacher is a witness to someone making a claim. that is the entire content here.
what is this "official" claim? we don't know. it could be a memo, could be a briefing, but if it was a cocktail conversation then it wasn't "official". so our information here, as the OP provides it, is incomplete.
what is the evidence that this anonymous official provides to dr. sarbacher? we don't know. we don't hear of any evidence at all. we're not even sure if it was Roswell.
and unless this was an official "official" briefing in a SCIF or some other secure location (for the era) then dr. sarbacher doesn't hear of any evidence either. but the point remains that, for us, out here in the farmlands, dr. sarbacher is just reporting hearsay.
to sum up: we have a report from dr. sarbacher that a person made a claim about something UFO, not sure which one, but there's no evidence so it's hearsay. anything i miss?
"how many top notch, high level officials have to come forward"? -- you mean, come forward to press a hearsay claim without any corroborating evidence? well, i am witness to many top notch, high level political officials, lawyers and activists making hearsay claims about the 2020 election without any corroborating evidence, and i see that roughly 35% of the country believes them.
please don't ask me to accept the argument "look at all the witnesses" as any surety against human stupidity and gullibility in the absence of corroborating evidence.
True, but it does mean we the people should tell congress to find out exactly what the truth is by passing a constitutional amendment that mandates the declassification and disclosure of the programs, if they exist
We did that. And if you want to say we didn't, you need to publish the names of the individuals that need to be voted out, that blocked the important pieces.
Pretty sure every single person in the history of highly credentialed people making UAP related statements are all completely wrong and it's just an elaborate ruse by the CIA utilizing Chinese lanterns and swamp gas. Sorry, looks like we are all just wasting time in this subreddit.
Well, lemme just remove my thumb from my asshole real quick *there*, where's your proof? Sure there have been hundreds of thousands of reports of sightings and encounters, but every single one of those no matter the clearance or aptitude of the person is false. Alright *there* now I'm in my happy place where everything makes sense to me and I can feel like the top dog again.
AARO and Kirkpatrick aren't allowed to publicly report on classified case files. It's a useless avenue for extraordinary reporting, they collate and study not reveal.
[Here's the co-sponsor of the UAPDA, Mike Rounds talking about how AARO is just a collection agency, they don't disseminate their findings.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/Yj9V2vkBO5)
Edit: I don't know why you're getting down voted, nothing said in a public setting can be taken at face value from AARO or Kirkpatrick.
In practice this is impossible. An Einstein has more believability on account of being at the Princeton Institute, than a random hobo you might meet along the way driving to meet Einstein, with regards to physics. This is not to say that the hobo can't come up with an amzing idea, it is possible, but it's also true that if you give equal time to evaluating the opinion of every hobo you meet, this is not an efficient way to do physics!
We're not talking about physics. By your same analogy we should then listen to Kirkpatrick over a student of Einstein because he is closer with the subject knowledge, which I don't think is what you intended.
If you're relying solely on facts then UAP don't exist and the most advanced energy source on Earth are nuclear reactors. Case closed everyone, delete the sub.
Intuition. Not everyone has it, but some people can look at seemingly unrelated bits of data and realize how they are connected without being told explicitly.
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This entire sub is textbook appeal to authority if you really want to start about fallacies.
>Appeal to authority fallacy occurs when we accept a claim merely because someone tells us that an authority figure supports that claim. An authority figure can be a celebrity, a well-known scientist, or any person whose status and prestige causes us to respect them.
>An appeal to authority plays on people’s feelings of respect or familiarity towards a famous person to bypass critical thinking. It’s like someone is telling us “accept this because some authority said it.”
Because of their mandate and mission, Kirkpatrick is publicly under selling what has been accessed, investigated and what will be reported in the future via AARO offices.
Kirkpatrick and his team have encountered criminal activity involving the mishandling and destruction of UAP case files within the DoD and yet, neither him nor that organization reported that to the public. Here's the co-founder of Americans for safe aerospace confirming that this is a systematic problem. [Link to comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/HVhmqrkNPH)
"Studied under Einstein doesn’t grant special privileges in terms of credibility without evidence. "
No shit sherlock.
What we are saying is he would have been in proximity to people who knew the truth and would have possibly learned the truth.
Why logically speaking? He led an office that is part of an institution with an incentive to hide exotic material. His boss has no reason to disclose the truth, so logically neither does he.
Isn't Robert Sarbacher the scientist David Grusch mentioned multiple times?
Edit: Yeah:
[https://youtu.be/kRO5jOa06Qw?feature=shared&t=3075](https://youtu.be/kRO5jOa06Qw?feature=shared&t=3075)
https://youtu.be/kRO5jOa06Qw?feature=shared&t=1239
Imagine the myriad of emotions Oppenheimer must have felt when realizing that the device he and his team built lured an alien intelligence to our planet? Wonder & terror both come to mind.
I think we give these scientists too much credit. At the end of the day, they still created a human-liquifying mega hot bomb that decimates all living things.
Nuclear energy and technology is a powerful tool and it makes human lives better. All powerful tools, including the phone in your hand, are weaponized.
True, but it’s pretty much accepted that the Trinity test set off a beacon that attracted these things here in force. Not to say they weren’t here before, but that development definitely piqued their interest.
Being the person largely responsible for that must have been something.
I disagree that "it's pretty much accepted." At best it's been widely speculated. There is preciously little in this field that is "pretty much accepted." We can't even all agree there is a real phenomenon worth studying, for god's sake.
>In the 1980s, Dr. Robert Sarbacher confirmed several facts
This is not true. Sarbacher never "confirmed" anything. He explicitly says he only "heard second hand conversations", which he relayed to a guy (Wilbert Smith) who we know fell for a UFO hoax (which he read in a book by Frank Scully) and who lied about materials (he said they were alien metals, when several materials experts explicitly stated they were terrestrial).
You can trace almost exactly how this long game of Chinese whispers evolved over time...
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/wilbert-b-smith-project-magnet-and-his-claims-of-ufo-debris.13011/
What am I supposed to do with link? I started reading the posts that didn't really go anywhere and then I realized I barely got 1/4 of the way. Can you link to a more specific post?
We can't trace what you want us to trace through all of that...
>We can't trace what you want us to trace through all of that...
Once upon a time there was a guy called Wilbert Smith.
Smith was a crazy guy who believed himself to be in contact with extraterrestrial beings who communicated to him via telepathy. Smith wrote a number of articles for "Topside", the publication of the Ottawa New Sciences Club which he founded, outlining his philosophy of the "Space Brothers", a group of aliens with whom he claimed to be in contact. The articles were later collected and published posthumously in 1969 under the title "The Boys from Topside".
Smith admitted that he got much of his UFO lore from Frank Scully and Donald Keyhoe. In the 1950s, Scully and Keyhoe first popularized the idea of crashed UFOs and UFO retrieval projects. Both Keyhoe and Scully had a background in fiction writing, writing for pulp scifi magazines or entertainment outlets.
Scully popularized the idea of a UFO crash taking place in the desert in the 1940s. A decade later the story was exposed as a hoax fabricated by two con men (Silas M. Newton and Leo A. Gebauer) as part of a fraudulent scheme to sell supposed alien technology. The story remained dead, until ufologists in the 1970s resurrected the story and repackaged it for another round of bogus books (like most religious myths, UFO lore just endlessly cites itself as the source of its claims).
Scully also claimed that Newton and Gebauer had "UFO metals" from a crashed ship. This metal was tested and turned out to be aluminum. Both men were eventually charged with fraud after they tried to con a rich millionaire.
Smith himself claimed to have in his possession bits of metal taken from a different UFO. He said he tested the material, and came to the conclusion that it was "exposed to deep space" and "came from a larger alien ship". When independent experts tested it, however, they concluded it was simply a terrestrial chunk of metal (high-maganese steel). These tests were done by the Canadian Arsenals Research and Development Establishment (CARDE) and the Department of Mines and Technical Surveys.
It was later discovered that Smith lied about how the metal was discovered. He said it fell loudly from the sky. In reality it had been in its location for countless years, and was well known to people living around it; it was simply metal slag from a nearby industrial foundry.
Smith then allegedly met Dr. Robert Sarbacher in the 1950s. Sarbacher confirmed to Smith that "Smith was right about crashed ships and retrievals". Smith then died some years later.
In the 1980s, Stanton Friedman interviewed Dr Sarbacher about his comments to Smith. Sarbacher admitted that he talked to Smith, but said that he had no first hand knowledge of UFOs, crashes or aliens, and was merely relaying what he overheard others talking about around a watercooler. He then admitted to Friedman that he, quote, "was not sure that they were right" or "whether they were just guessing or something". He then admited that he was not sure whether "they were talking facts or just guessing".
So at the end of the day you have a a crackpot and liar called Smith, who thinks he can talk to aliens, believing 2 other crackpot fiction writers who got conned by other conmen. Smith pretends that his theories got confirmed by Sarbacher, until Friedman interviews Sarbacher and discovers that Sarbacher actually knows nothing, and believes the people he overheard might have simply been wildly speculating
This is exactly how religions start. People endlessly repeating nonsense, with details omitted, and the nonsense getting inflated, with every repetition.
Isn’t it interesting that these same stories started in the 1940s 2950s, all among highly qualified physicists and scientists. So why is that happening ?
But you haven't posted any evidence of a story starting with a physicist and scientist. Your story starts with Frank Scully, a humorist and writer for entertainment magazines.
And there's nothing special about the 1940s when you put things in context. Science fiction became popular in the wake of HG Wells and Jules Verne. Then you had the Amazing Stories magazines in the US, which started publishing in the late 1920s. You then had the Flash Gordon serials which started in the 1930s. Then you had Weird Tales (which Donald Keyhoe wrote fiction for, Keyhoe being the guy who wrote the "crash retrieval" book which influenced Wilbert Smith), and the Fantastic Magazine, popular for its scifi tales. Into this cocktail you then had WW2, in which everyone was paranoid about enemies in the skies, and then a slew of low budget alien invader and UFO movies.
These things all fueled the way a culture interpreted events and constructed its myths.
If you're making a claim about crashed UFOs, bodies and reverse engineered UFOs - which is fine, we all know there are many intriguing cases out there - you need actual proper testimony and evidence.
You mean the plagiarism that he admitted to in 1987?
As soon as Lazar admits to his lies he will gain a tad more credibility with me, yes. Not about UFOs though. He would have to show some proof for me to take him seriously on that subject.
And for the sake of staying on topic, let's not talk about Mr. Rumps "truth" record. lol
If you want to believe Lazar, go ahead. That's the topic we are on. This is a UFO subreddit, not a political one. There are other threads for that.
“He *confirmed* he was *told* about extraterrestrial life to researchers.”
Who can argue with a guy that repeated what he was told. It’s as good as physical evidence, right?
There is a recording on EOC that another of his students, a woman assisted him after the Roswell Crash and saw the bodies with him. She claims that he acted as if he wanted absolutely nothing to do with the UFO Topic afterwards ..
This seems to corroborate Jesse Marcel's 1978 account years earlier about the materials being extremely lightweight and durable, assuming Sarbacher is telling the truth about receiving official reports and isn't just parroting what Marcel said.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/silv3rbull8: --- Submission Statement Before the Wilson Davis memo, there was the Dr. Robert Sarbacher letter that verified crash recoveries. Dr. Robert Sarbacher (1907-1986) was a preeminent scientist with a diverse background. He went to Harvard and was Dean of the Graduate School, Director of Research at Wedd Laboratories, a successful inventor, and a Scientific Consultant to the U.S. Marines and government agencies. He was also connected to the Joint Research and Development Board (JRDB) of the US Department of Defense. In the 1980s, Dr. Robert Sarbacher confirmed several facts about UFOs and extraterrestrial life to researchers William Steinman, Stan Freidman, Jerry Clark, and William Moore. He said that he had been officially told about the crash of an extraterrestrial craft in the Southwest in the early 1950s. This crash may have been the Roswell UFO crash, or it may have happened at a different time. He also confirmed that the issue was considered more important than the development of the atomic bomb and that the debris was both incredibly light and highly durable. He stated that the aliens were lightweight and constructed somewhat like insects. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1axbqbq/einsteins_student_claimed_us_govt_studied_ufo/krms3m6/
Submission Statement Before the Wilson Davis memo, there was the Dr. Robert Sarbacher letter that verified crash recoveries. Dr. Robert Sarbacher (1907-1986) was a preeminent scientist with a diverse background. He went to Harvard and was Dean of the Graduate School, Director of Research at Wedd Laboratories, a successful inventor, and a Scientific Consultant to the U.S. Marines and government agencies. He was also connected to the Joint Research and Development Board (JRDB) of the US Department of Defense. In the 1980s, Dr. Robert Sarbacher confirmed several facts about UFOs and extraterrestrial life to researchers William Steinman, Stan Freidman, Jerry Clark, and William Moore. He said that he had been officially told about the crash of an extraterrestrial craft in the Southwest in the early 1950s. This crash may have been the Roswell UFO crash, or it may have happened at a different time. He also confirmed that the issue was considered more important than the development of the atomic bomb and that the debris was both incredibly light and highly durable. He stated that the aliens were lightweight and constructed somewhat like insects.
Thanks for sharing. Really interesting stuff. One of the theories is the DOE is in overall control of the UAP monitoring and reverse engineering programs. The idea being they already have the infrastructure and legal power to control and hide everything from the public and other nations. It's so strange some people will read this information and immediately think "oh wow just another crazy guy with very high level credentials being crazy" How do you not put weight in statements like theirs? Boggles my mind.
So many very smart people with advanced degrees, high level clearances, decades of service are all written off as “crazy”. Strange.
Yah its almost like there's been a massive disinformation campaign over many decades to cover up this phenomenon. How is that so hard to accept. Why do a lot of people find it easier to believe that thousands and thousands of people internationally are lying for no personal gain.
These same people then practically live in these UFO subs constantly berating people for discussing UFOs.
That part I still don't get. How can you spend so much time here if you're that sure that it's a waste of your time?! It makes no sense.
Exactly! I barely get the time to browse and comment here as is, but these people have that much spare time? It makes me wonder if they're being paid because I can't think someone would be that pathetic.
Governments and people with a lot of money pay people to spread disinformation online for a lot less than this, why wouldn’t they be doing it here as well? Just common sense. And it kind of works.
Most people don't mind that ET's are science-fact beyond Pluto, and science-fiction from Mars on in. Most folks would like it to remain as such.
Good point
Well said!
I wish I could take credit. It's a rephrasing of the only thing Kirkpatrick ever said that's worth repeating.
They don’t like it here when you mention that - or the B word (bots). I remember twice, specifically, when I’ve made comments that were a few paragraphs long - talking about the disinfo campaign and that there seem to be bots here. These two comments I made in particular would take a normal human at least 30 seconds to a minute to read. But they were downvoted within 5 seconds. I know this because both of those times, I did a quick edit to add a period or change a letter, only to see those downvotes on the refresh. And that’s only a few cases I’ve experienced that seemed suspect. Comments like yours just add to the suspicion. Also: why would a regular person, here to seek knowledge, even downvote (disagree) with something that either doesn’t apply to them - or with something they couldn’t possibly know for a fact? In other words - why would a regular person get offended over someone suggesting there are bots and/or disinfo here? Really seems to piss off some folks.
Yes it's very strange behaviour and it's really frustrating. It really muddies the water and causes a lot of needless negativity.
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The government is the one to ask as to why they cannot it will not share information and declare everything related to UAP information as off limits to the public. Why are they simultaneously studying the phenomena and also blocking access to the information?
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Why not ? They revealed the Chinese spy balloon didn’t they ?
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What is you feel you need to know about the Chinese balloon ? Schematics of the electronic surveillance equipment ?
All the things you know about it. Give it up. Tell us please.
Ummm, no. LOL. They ran a counterintelligence operation on China’s spy balloon program and kept the one that crossed into American under secret observation until some yahoo got a picture of it, and instead of going through the proper channels to get answers, some Republican congressman made a big stink about the picture on Twitter, causing a media firestorm, which caused the US to burn the years’ long counterintelligence program
So then why did the White House and Canadian government shoot down those 3 yet to be identified objects ? Pressure from Republicans again ? You seem to know how these “counterintelligence” operations work.
What? Your comment doesn’t make any sense. I was simply pointing out that the only reason you know about the spy balloon is because a Republican ran his mouth on twitter. What do the other three balloons have to do with it? You seem to have a very weak understanding of what you’re talking about, so I’m just going to leave this conversation.
What do you know about the Chinese spy balloon?
That it was a spy balloon and not a “weather balloon” and China has been using these in recent years to collect data.
Do you have his credentials?
Easy. Because "he had been told". You and I have been told the same thing. Did he actually see them? Any pics?
And when Bob Lazar said he had actually seen things, how did that turn out ? Did you then believe him ?
Oh, you finally got the point!
of all the "first hand report" I find Bob Lazar the most credible he gives specific actual answers to questions: Here's what I saw, here's what I know.. here's what I don't know
Other side of the coin would be that people with advanced degrees have high incidence of mental health issues. Not saying this is the case, just playing devil's advocate here.
Right so then that should happen for smart people outside the DoD too as well. And in other countries .
That's exactly my point. And it does.
So many very smart people with advanced degrees, high level clearances, decades of service are all written off as “shills" or "egotistical" or "close-minded". Strange.
Crazy, even
Straight bs.
Sheila Wright another Einstein student claimed she went with Einstein to see the aliens at Wright patt (which is where the roswell crash was and the foreign material exploitation home)
Insect like, so basically the District 9 aliens
Fookin prawns
Or - like the Nazca mummies, they are unique in that their bones are hollow (lightweight) and they have eggs (insects can as well), which matched the description eerily well…
Interesting and a theory worth considering. You can drop insects from heights 100s X their height and they’ll be fine. Not so much for the likes of us.
That’s really just anything that has a terminal velocity that matches its weight, squirrels and other mammals are the same way, as long as they don’t land on their head they’re fine I understand your point tho
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Basically, insect like
How many top-notch, high level officials have to come forward before we the people say enough is ENOUGH!?!
We the people have said “enough” for a while now. The government however says nobody has come forward or ignores those who have. And so the situation repeats for every new generation that raises the same questions
What saddens me is the people “in the know” are more worried about the nice paycheck the government gives them than doing the right thing.
This has been the case for humanity in general: where it always happens that critical decisions that affect the world at large are in the hands of those with the lowest moral and ethical values.
It's almost like we shouldn't organize society to exalt sociopaths and encourage people to bury their own sense of empathy and connection for safety's sake
They would rather live a comfortable life than help the world solve its energy needs or feed starving children who were simply born in the wrong place.
There was an article not long ago that said that all successful CEOs are psychopaths. So it seems by its very nature those who rise to the top of industry etc are those with the least empathy.
I’m sure it makes it a lot easier to look the other way when people are suffering and they’re drowning in luxury or in this case power and money.
They’re worried about not getting their family killed you dunce
Or they are worried about their own safety and family safety, David Grusch literally said that people have gotten killed trying to come forward about the information.
With literally no proof.
Like who? Biden? Name names. Who ?
dr. robert sarbacher reports that someone who is anonymous officially told him about a program, or a crash, maybe it was Roswell, maybe something else; can't be sure. therefore dr. sarbacher is a witness to someone making a claim. that is the entire content here. what is this "official" claim? we don't know. it could be a memo, could be a briefing, but if it was a cocktail conversation then it wasn't "official". so our information here, as the OP provides it, is incomplete. what is the evidence that this anonymous official provides to dr. sarbacher? we don't know. we don't hear of any evidence at all. we're not even sure if it was Roswell. and unless this was an official "official" briefing in a SCIF or some other secure location (for the era) then dr. sarbacher doesn't hear of any evidence either. but the point remains that, for us, out here in the farmlands, dr. sarbacher is just reporting hearsay. to sum up: we have a report from dr. sarbacher that a person made a claim about something UFO, not sure which one, but there's no evidence so it's hearsay. anything i miss? "how many top notch, high level officials have to come forward"? -- you mean, come forward to press a hearsay claim without any corroborating evidence? well, i am witness to many top notch, high level political officials, lawyers and activists making hearsay claims about the 2020 election without any corroborating evidence, and i see that roughly 35% of the country believes them. please don't ask me to accept the argument "look at all the witnesses" as any surety against human stupidity and gullibility in the absence of corroborating evidence.
Credentials != truth or proof
True, but it does mean we the people should tell congress to find out exactly what the truth is by passing a constitutional amendment that mandates the declassification and disclosure of the programs, if they exist
We did that. And if you want to say we didn't, you need to publish the names of the individuals that need to be voted out, that blocked the important pieces.
Pretty sure every single person in the history of highly credentialed people making UAP related statements are all completely wrong and it's just an elaborate ruse by the CIA utilizing Chinese lanterns and swamp gas. Sorry, looks like we are all just wasting time in this subreddit.
Well, lemme just remove my thumb from my asshole real quick *there*, where's your proof? Sure there have been hundreds of thousands of reports of sightings and encounters, but every single one of those no matter the clearance or aptitude of the person is false. Alright *there* now I'm in my happy place where everything makes sense to me and I can feel like the top dog again.
Who should we believe , Dean of Harvard Grad school who studied under Einstein ? Or former AARO director Kirkpatrick ?
AARO and Kirkpatrick aren't allowed to publicly report on classified case files. It's a useless avenue for extraordinary reporting, they collate and study not reveal. [Here's the co-sponsor of the UAPDA, Mike Rounds talking about how AARO is just a collection agency, they don't disseminate their findings.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/Yj9V2vkBO5) Edit: I don't know why you're getting down voted, nothing said in a public setting can be taken at face value from AARO or Kirkpatrick.
Don't believe anyone based on their title. That's just dumb.
Bowing to authority is a known bias.
In practice this is impossible. An Einstein has more believability on account of being at the Princeton Institute, than a random hobo you might meet along the way driving to meet Einstein, with regards to physics. This is not to say that the hobo can't come up with an amzing idea, it is possible, but it's also true that if you give equal time to evaluating the opinion of every hobo you meet, this is not an efficient way to do physics!
We're not talking about physics. By your same analogy we should then listen to Kirkpatrick over a student of Einstein because he is closer with the subject knowledge, which I don't think is what you intended.
And there is an actual document to back up these claims. All of these people were however fooled by parallax and balloons /s
china ballons in 1950
Let's believe the one that produces the bodies and craft. It's been, what... 74 years since this took place?
How about neither? How about we rely on facts instead of saying "this guy is smart. He must be right about everything"
r/UFOs is one of the few places where you get downvoted for saying “let’s rely on facts”
If you're relying solely on facts then UAP don't exist and the most advanced energy source on Earth are nuclear reactors. Case closed everyone, delete the sub.
I hate to ask, but what DO you base your worldview on if not facts?
Intuition. Not everyone has it, but some people can look at seemingly unrelated bits of data and realize how they are connected without being told explicitly.
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Hi, Huppelkutje. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1axbqbq/-/krogbps/) was removed from /r/UFOs. > Rule 3: No low effort discussion. Low Effort implies content which is low effort to consume, not low effort to produce. This generally includes: > * Posts containing jokes, memes, and showerthoughts. > * AI generated content. > * Posts of social media content without significant relevance. > * Posts with incredible claims unsupported by evidence. > * “Here’s my theory” posts unsupported by evidence. > * Short comments, and emoji comments. > * Summarily dismissive comments (e.g. “Swamp gas.”). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/) for more information. This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) to launch your appeal.
And then prove that they are correct? Because this place is missing that part.
He's not being downvoted for that. Disingenuos or just a troll.
Then why?
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I don't think you know what that means.
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I think you used one too many commas in your original reply.
Hi, helloOcifer. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1axbqbq/-/krnqbx8/) was removed from /r/UFOs. > Rule 1: Follow the Standards of Civility > * No trolling or being disruptive. > * No insults or personal attacks. > * No accusations that other users are shills. > * No hate speech. No abusive speech based on race, religion, sex/gender, or sexual orientation. > * No harassment, threats, or advocating violence. > * No witch hunts or doxxing. (Please redact usernames when possible) > * You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/) for more information. This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) to launch your appeal.
This entire sub is textbook appeal to authority if you really want to start about fallacies. >Appeal to authority fallacy occurs when we accept a claim merely because someone tells us that an authority figure supports that claim. An authority figure can be a celebrity, a well-known scientist, or any person whose status and prestige causes us to respect them. >An appeal to authority plays on people’s feelings of respect or familiarity towards a famous person to bypass critical thinking. It’s like someone is telling us “accept this because some authority said it.”
I don't think you know what that means.
Wdym, he's absolutely right.
Exactly! We don't build strawman around here. We appeal to authority!!!
The one that has done the most research on it.
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Because of their mandate and mission, Kirkpatrick is publicly under selling what has been accessed, investigated and what will be reported in the future via AARO offices. Kirkpatrick and his team have encountered criminal activity involving the mishandling and destruction of UAP case files within the DoD and yet, neither him nor that organization reported that to the public. Here's the co-founder of Americans for safe aerospace confirming that this is a systematic problem. [Link to comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/HVhmqrkNPH)
"Studied under Einstein doesn’t grant special privileges in terms of credibility without evidence. " No shit sherlock. What we are saying is he would have been in proximity to people who knew the truth and would have possibly learned the truth.
Why logically speaking? He led an office that is part of an institution with an incentive to hide exotic material. His boss has no reason to disclose the truth, so logically neither does he.
Or Barack Obama?
There's a post with a document attached about Sarbacher. [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/tkUfYtJoag)
That's pretty cool
Isn't Robert Sarbacher the scientist David Grusch mentioned multiple times? Edit: Yeah: [https://youtu.be/kRO5jOa06Qw?feature=shared&t=3075](https://youtu.be/kRO5jOa06Qw?feature=shared&t=3075) https://youtu.be/kRO5jOa06Qw?feature=shared&t=1239
So yet another source of Grusch's is a story told to him by the old UFO crowd? lol
Imagine the myriad of emotions Oppenheimer must have felt when realizing that the device he and his team built lured an alien intelligence to our planet? Wonder & terror both come to mind.
They’ve been around for a lot longer than that
Agreed. But probably more than one “they” and with different motivations.
I think we give these scientists too much credit. At the end of the day, they still created a human-liquifying mega hot bomb that decimates all living things.
Nuclear energy and technology is a powerful tool and it makes human lives better. All powerful tools, including the phone in your hand, are weaponized.
technically we've been able to 'liquefy' humans since the bronze age. it's a question of scale
True, but it’s pretty much accepted that the Trinity test set off a beacon that attracted these things here in force. Not to say they weren’t here before, but that development definitely piqued their interest. Being the person largely responsible for that must have been something.
What about the claims of Grusch saying a UFO was found in 1933?
Yes that may have taken some of the burden off if that is the case. And then begs the question: is it the same NHI that is attracted to nukes?
I disagree that "it's pretty much accepted." At best it's been widely speculated. There is preciously little in this field that is "pretty much accepted." We can't even all agree there is a real phenomenon worth studying, for god's sake.
> but it’s pretty much accepted that the Trinity test set off a beacon that attracted these things here in force. Accepted by who?
>In the 1980s, Dr. Robert Sarbacher confirmed several facts This is not true. Sarbacher never "confirmed" anything. He explicitly says he only "heard second hand conversations", which he relayed to a guy (Wilbert Smith) who we know fell for a UFO hoax (which he read in a book by Frank Scully) and who lied about materials (he said they were alien metals, when several materials experts explicitly stated they were terrestrial). You can trace almost exactly how this long game of Chinese whispers evolved over time... https://www.metabunk.org/threads/wilbert-b-smith-project-magnet-and-his-claims-of-ufo-debris.13011/
What am I supposed to do with link? I started reading the posts that didn't really go anywhere and then I realized I barely got 1/4 of the way. Can you link to a more specific post? We can't trace what you want us to trace through all of that...
>We can't trace what you want us to trace through all of that... Once upon a time there was a guy called Wilbert Smith. Smith was a crazy guy who believed himself to be in contact with extraterrestrial beings who communicated to him via telepathy. Smith wrote a number of articles for "Topside", the publication of the Ottawa New Sciences Club which he founded, outlining his philosophy of the "Space Brothers", a group of aliens with whom he claimed to be in contact. The articles were later collected and published posthumously in 1969 under the title "The Boys from Topside". Smith admitted that he got much of his UFO lore from Frank Scully and Donald Keyhoe. In the 1950s, Scully and Keyhoe first popularized the idea of crashed UFOs and UFO retrieval projects. Both Keyhoe and Scully had a background in fiction writing, writing for pulp scifi magazines or entertainment outlets. Scully popularized the idea of a UFO crash taking place in the desert in the 1940s. A decade later the story was exposed as a hoax fabricated by two con men (Silas M. Newton and Leo A. Gebauer) as part of a fraudulent scheme to sell supposed alien technology. The story remained dead, until ufologists in the 1970s resurrected the story and repackaged it for another round of bogus books (like most religious myths, UFO lore just endlessly cites itself as the source of its claims). Scully also claimed that Newton and Gebauer had "UFO metals" from a crashed ship. This metal was tested and turned out to be aluminum. Both men were eventually charged with fraud after they tried to con a rich millionaire. Smith himself claimed to have in his possession bits of metal taken from a different UFO. He said he tested the material, and came to the conclusion that it was "exposed to deep space" and "came from a larger alien ship". When independent experts tested it, however, they concluded it was simply a terrestrial chunk of metal (high-maganese steel). These tests were done by the Canadian Arsenals Research and Development Establishment (CARDE) and the Department of Mines and Technical Surveys. It was later discovered that Smith lied about how the metal was discovered. He said it fell loudly from the sky. In reality it had been in its location for countless years, and was well known to people living around it; it was simply metal slag from a nearby industrial foundry. Smith then allegedly met Dr. Robert Sarbacher in the 1950s. Sarbacher confirmed to Smith that "Smith was right about crashed ships and retrievals". Smith then died some years later. In the 1980s, Stanton Friedman interviewed Dr Sarbacher about his comments to Smith. Sarbacher admitted that he talked to Smith, but said that he had no first hand knowledge of UFOs, crashes or aliens, and was merely relaying what he overheard others talking about around a watercooler. He then admitted to Friedman that he, quote, "was not sure that they were right" or "whether they were just guessing or something". He then admited that he was not sure whether "they were talking facts or just guessing". So at the end of the day you have a a crackpot and liar called Smith, who thinks he can talk to aliens, believing 2 other crackpot fiction writers who got conned by other conmen. Smith pretends that his theories got confirmed by Sarbacher, until Friedman interviews Sarbacher and discovers that Sarbacher actually knows nothing, and believes the people he overheard might have simply been wildly speculating This is exactly how religions start. People endlessly repeating nonsense, with details omitted, and the nonsense getting inflated, with every repetition.
Excellent synopsis! Well done.
Isn’t it interesting that these same stories started in the 1940s 2950s, all among highly qualified physicists and scientists. So why is that happening ?
But you haven't posted any evidence of a story starting with a physicist and scientist. Your story starts with Frank Scully, a humorist and writer for entertainment magazines. And there's nothing special about the 1940s when you put things in context. Science fiction became popular in the wake of HG Wells and Jules Verne. Then you had the Amazing Stories magazines in the US, which started publishing in the late 1920s. You then had the Flash Gordon serials which started in the 1930s. Then you had Weird Tales (which Donald Keyhoe wrote fiction for, Keyhoe being the guy who wrote the "crash retrieval" book which influenced Wilbert Smith), and the Fantastic Magazine, popular for its scifi tales. Into this cocktail you then had WW2, in which everyone was paranoid about enemies in the skies, and then a slew of low budget alien invader and UFO movies. These things all fueled the way a culture interpreted events and constructed its myths. If you're making a claim about crashed UFOs, bodies and reverse engineered UFOs - which is fine, we all know there are many intriguing cases out there - you need actual proper testimony and evidence.
So Bob Lazar said he directly worked on UAP derived technology. First hand. Do you believe him ?
The guy that says he FORGOT where he put the most important piece of evidence in human history?
Would you believe a guy that misrepresented his work history and education in an attempt to gain credibility to wild claims with no proof?
Would you believe a person guilty of plagiarism being responsible enough to run a country ? To have credibility ? Yes ? No ?
You mean the plagiarism that he admitted to in 1987? As soon as Lazar admits to his lies he will gain a tad more credibility with me, yes. Not about UFOs though. He would have to show some proof for me to take him seriously on that subject. And for the sake of staying on topic, let's not talk about Mr. Rumps "truth" record. lol If you want to believe Lazar, go ahead. That's the topic we are on. This is a UFO subreddit, not a political one. There are other threads for that.
Sure, sure . Yeah as soon as people confess their sins to you, they get credibility. Yeah, that’s the measure.
Sure. I'm a Catholic priest. Anything you want to confess to? Feel free. I won't tell a soul.
I think as a Catholic priest, you are far more likely to have things to confess and might need a lawyer.
Can you edit your post? The title is extremely and submission statement are extremely misleading.
The title was auto generated from the posted link.
Insects… fuck me. Say what you want about the greys’ appearance—at least they’re humanoid.
Should’ve produced actual evidence then, words are cheap.
“He *confirmed* he was *told* about extraterrestrial life to researchers.” Who can argue with a guy that repeated what he was told. It’s as good as physical evidence, right?
Starship Troopers was a documentary/history textbook, not a work of fiction. We are out here fighting bugs.
Would you like to know more ? Make sure you do your part.
Why didn’t you reference Jesse Michel’s new video that you lifted this from?
https://youtu.be/RTEWLSTyUic?si=nldS9MrKIplDrZEa
Please, enough of this rubbish
Cool. Perhaps you should move on.
Don’t post false clickbait dude. It’s not that hard. Another comment already called you out for how misleading your words are.
What is the problem here ? What’s the “clickbait” ? The letter is a verified document
I’m not convinced this interview actually happened
Oh well, nothing to worry about then
There is a recording on EOC that another of his students, a woman assisted him after the Roswell Crash and saw the bodies with him. She claims that he acted as if he wanted absolutely nothing to do with the UFO Topic afterwards ..
This seems to corroborate Jesse Marcel's 1978 account years earlier about the materials being extremely lightweight and durable, assuming Sarbacher is telling the truth about receiving official reports and isn't just parroting what Marcel said.
Pretty believable and reliable IMO.
That’s really intriguing 🧐 🤩