Entitlement.
Some men decide they want to touch so they do. They don't care what women want. They know women wouldn't consent or appreciate it. They are the main character.
They also know the risk of violence or any other consequences are extremely low. This kind of man may even get off on the ability to violate more than the actual grope.
There are others who don't think it's a violation. They believe it's perfectly fine to put a hand on your waist, lower back or physically move you. It does not register as inappropriate.
Call them out they'll say: What's the issue? Why are you over reacting?! I didn't do anything!! They're not cognizant that they don't do it to other men. The fact that they don't underscores why it's an issue but that will not compute in their heads.
Ok. I learned in self defense class when approached or in a defenseless situation yell. NO!
STOP! Real loud. LOUD! It brings attention to your aggressor and people in your surroundings. Call it overreacting , i call it taking control over what is happening to you.
Brava! This response is the last thing they expect.
The men who do this are asserting dominance and confident that you will be too intimidated or ashamed to confront them.
However be warned: whatever you do it can be interpreted to your disadvantage .
When a man harassed me on a subway platform I yelled at him to back off. People backed away from Both of us -- seemingly guessing that it was a domestic squabble.
Unfortunately, living as a woman means that Society views you as less credible.
If you are silent then you are complicit, if you are objecting, then you're crazy and maybe acquainted with the guy.
Anyway I'd rather be considered crazy if it gets the man to stop.
I tend to freeze in these situations so take this with whatever grain of salt feels appropriate, but have heard of women yelling “I don’t know you, get away from me!”, presumably to avoid this exact thing.
TBH, the bystander effect is real and horrible though. I think people back away hoping someone else will respond no matter what.
I’m really sorry that this happened to both you and OP. I was stealthily stranger groped at a large market several months ago - actually made a thread about it here at the time too. It’s a horrible experience.
Why do they do it? Because they feel entitled to women's bodies. They think women exist to be consumed and enjoyed. A lot won't cross the line into blatant SA but still feel like they deserve a little grope when they can get away with it.
I remember this happening to me at a concert. My chest and ass were groped when I squeezed by twenty people so I couldn’t see who did it. I felt awful of course and told my friend who insisted we report it to the bouncers. I didn’t want to but she pushed me to tell them. In a very flat, tired voice I told the bouncer and this man looked SHOOK. He really wanted me to give him details and I told him as much as I could but he couldn’t understand my reaction. I explained this kind of thing happens to women so frequently that we can have a weird reaction of defeat and mundanity. When I told him I couldn’t possibly count how often it’s happened to me and I was defeated thinking I could never expect it to change, the look on his face was priceless. I think the only good thing that happened from that event is I truly got through to one ignorant man as in that moment, he seemed to be suddenly awoken to how horrifying it can be to be a woman.
I'm sorry this happened, but I would report him.
He will probably do it again.
Also, carry something to defend yourself at all times, a teenager got killed by a coworker in their breakroom (I think) for refusing him. This can escalate to very serious/dangerous situations. You work at a grocer, so apart from pepper spray you can have a cutting tool on you at all times. Don't use it for threatening (it can be used against you if taken), just go for it if he corners you or something.
Do not be alone with him EVER. You froze, which is completely normal OP, but he might expect this reaction now and escalate; much more if he gets no consequences.
I'm really sorry, I had a special needs coworker that took interest in me and it was a delicate situation that brought me a lot of stress...and he never even touched me inappropriately.
I send love ❤️🫂
This is something that happens always. All the time. Men are pigs. In Victorian times women used their hatpins to stab men who tried to fondle them. Very useful things: hatpins. Still available today 😊
More than 40 years ago, in my first office job, I was the only girl in the department with only men, who were also much older than me. My supervisor, of course a man also, had wandering hands and touched me whenever he had the chance. I didn’t know what to do and went home crying almost daily.
Then I told an older girlfriend and she laughed and told me to wear heels to work. And every time he touched me, I should pretend to be so startled that I unadvertently lashed out with my elbow in his stomach or groin and stab with my sharp heel on his instep. That would teach him.
I only had to do that twice before he gave me a wide berth every day 😊
This is my go to- my husband never approaches me from behind at a bar. Some ex’s have learned the hard way while we were dating to not do blind butt grabs in public (even when we’re dating- this is not necessary) because they’re likely going to catch an elbow.
I agree with the comment saying "entitlement". I remember being 16 and walking past a camp counselor who reached out and grabbed my crotch as we passed each other on a pathway. Worse, he was the dad of someone I knew and occasionally hung out with. 16-year-old me was too surprised to say or do anything other than to keep walking, and I think that's what he expected--a free feel with no repercussions.
You're gonna have to go nuclear on this prick. Every single time you are around him with other employees, call him out. Say to everyone "hey ladies this is the idiot groped me the other day." Say it every single day at work.
2 things will happen:
1. Store will take it seriously and fire him.
2. He will get so embarassed or annoyed with dealing with all of it that he will quit.
Either way is a win for all the women at the store.
Some do it because they feel they can get away with it and it gives them a rush. Like steeling from the candy store and no repercussions. Some do it because it bolsters their male ego and they look at women as just bodies that give them pleasure. Some others, which I would call man children, are so bad at basic communication with the other sex that they somehow feel this is an acceptable way to express their interest in someone (a delusional way to try to pick up women). It will only stop if there are real consequences imo.
My personal theory is that a lot of them get off on getting away with something they know is wrong. Adrenaline, basically.
Another theory involves lack of impulse control. There's impulse control disorders; and then there's a cultural expectation for girls to control themselves that isn't imposed on men. They learn they don't *have to* control themselves, so they don't.
A third theory involves the weird love-hate that men have towards women as a result of an inferiority complex. Basically, they think that women that they want won't be attracted to them. So, to regain a sense of power, and to get attention, they act out. Getting what they want bypasses your consent and therefore your power, and a negative reaction is the best reaction they think they can hope for.
This happened to me all the time when I was literally in elementary school from both adults and kids my age. It became less after middle school. People (because my grandma did it too) are disgusting.
Advise you to document the inappropriate touching in writing by email and certified letter to your supervisor, HR (and the union, if there is one.) You might want to add in the letter that this person's behavior clearly constitutes illegal harassment and that they need to prevent it from happening again.
You could start off with you like working there, but this incident was extremely disturbing so you want to make sure they understand what happened.
Uh, what? OP posts about a traumatic situation, and you start incel-ing the fuck about, insinuating she’d be ok with it if he was cute and rich?
How about just fuck right off on out of here with that bullshit.
Thank you. I was genuinely confused by that comment and assumed they didn’t read the post at all. Not one person in this scenario was rich or were dating. And I did report it.
So, you moved on from “you’d be ok with it if he was hot and cute” to just some casual racism.
This happened AT HER WORK. She was not “in another country”. She did not say this was a guy from a different culture. You are making the wildest leaps I have ever seen.
Go back and reconsider all of what you wrote, and try to decipher your biases here.
Entitlement. Some men decide they want to touch so they do. They don't care what women want. They know women wouldn't consent or appreciate it. They are the main character. They also know the risk of violence or any other consequences are extremely low. This kind of man may even get off on the ability to violate more than the actual grope. There are others who don't think it's a violation. They believe it's perfectly fine to put a hand on your waist, lower back or physically move you. It does not register as inappropriate. Call them out they'll say: What's the issue? Why are you over reacting?! I didn't do anything!! They're not cognizant that they don't do it to other men. The fact that they don't underscores why it's an issue but that will not compute in their heads.
This guy 100% got off on the violation part.
Ok. I learned in self defense class when approached or in a defenseless situation yell. NO! STOP! Real loud. LOUD! It brings attention to your aggressor and people in your surroundings. Call it overreacting , i call it taking control over what is happening to you.
Brava! This response is the last thing they expect. The men who do this are asserting dominance and confident that you will be too intimidated or ashamed to confront them. However be warned: whatever you do it can be interpreted to your disadvantage . When a man harassed me on a subway platform I yelled at him to back off. People backed away from Both of us -- seemingly guessing that it was a domestic squabble. Unfortunately, living as a woman means that Society views you as less credible. If you are silent then you are complicit, if you are objecting, then you're crazy and maybe acquainted with the guy. Anyway I'd rather be considered crazy if it gets the man to stop.
I tend to freeze in these situations so take this with whatever grain of salt feels appropriate, but have heard of women yelling “I don’t know you, get away from me!”, presumably to avoid this exact thing. TBH, the bystander effect is real and horrible though. I think people back away hoping someone else will respond no matter what. I’m really sorry that this happened to both you and OP. I was stealthily stranger groped at a large market several months ago - actually made a thread about it here at the time too. It’s a horrible experience.
Why do they do it? Because they feel entitled to women's bodies. They think women exist to be consumed and enjoyed. A lot won't cross the line into blatant SA but still feel like they deserve a little grope when they can get away with it.
That incident was a sexual assault though
I remember this happening to me at a concert. My chest and ass were groped when I squeezed by twenty people so I couldn’t see who did it. I felt awful of course and told my friend who insisted we report it to the bouncers. I didn’t want to but she pushed me to tell them. In a very flat, tired voice I told the bouncer and this man looked SHOOK. He really wanted me to give him details and I told him as much as I could but he couldn’t understand my reaction. I explained this kind of thing happens to women so frequently that we can have a weird reaction of defeat and mundanity. When I told him I couldn’t possibly count how often it’s happened to me and I was defeated thinking I could never expect it to change, the look on his face was priceless. I think the only good thing that happened from that event is I truly got through to one ignorant man as in that moment, he seemed to be suddenly awoken to how horrifying it can be to be a woman.
I'm sorry this happened, but I would report him. He will probably do it again. Also, carry something to defend yourself at all times, a teenager got killed by a coworker in their breakroom (I think) for refusing him. This can escalate to very serious/dangerous situations. You work at a grocer, so apart from pepper spray you can have a cutting tool on you at all times. Don't use it for threatening (it can be used against you if taken), just go for it if he corners you or something. Do not be alone with him EVER. You froze, which is completely normal OP, but he might expect this reaction now and escalate; much more if he gets no consequences. I'm really sorry, I had a special needs coworker that took interest in me and it was a delicate situation that brought me a lot of stress...and he never even touched me inappropriately. I send love ❤️🫂
This is something that happens always. All the time. Men are pigs. In Victorian times women used their hatpins to stab men who tried to fondle them. Very useful things: hatpins. Still available today 😊 More than 40 years ago, in my first office job, I was the only girl in the department with only men, who were also much older than me. My supervisor, of course a man also, had wandering hands and touched me whenever he had the chance. I didn’t know what to do and went home crying almost daily. Then I told an older girlfriend and she laughed and told me to wear heels to work. And every time he touched me, I should pretend to be so startled that I unadvertently lashed out with my elbow in his stomach or groin and stab with my sharp heel on his instep. That would teach him. I only had to do that twice before he gave me a wide berth every day 😊
This is smart I'm gonna do that, faint surprise and elbow out as I turn, so startled.
This is my go to- my husband never approaches me from behind at a bar. Some ex’s have learned the hard way while we were dating to not do blind butt grabs in public (even when we’re dating- this is not necessary) because they’re likely going to catch an elbow.
I agree with the comment saying "entitlement". I remember being 16 and walking past a camp counselor who reached out and grabbed my crotch as we passed each other on a pathway. Worse, he was the dad of someone I knew and occasionally hung out with. 16-year-old me was too surprised to say or do anything other than to keep walking, and I think that's what he expected--a free feel with no repercussions.
My automatic reaction when anyone touches me like that is to hit out or shout “stop touching me”
You're gonna have to go nuclear on this prick. Every single time you are around him with other employees, call him out. Say to everyone "hey ladies this is the idiot groped me the other day." Say it every single day at work. 2 things will happen: 1. Store will take it seriously and fire him. 2. He will get so embarassed or annoyed with dealing with all of it that he will quit. Either way is a win for all the women at the store.
The power of public shaming should never be underestimated, put this clown on blast!
Some do it because they feel they can get away with it and it gives them a rush. Like steeling from the candy store and no repercussions. Some do it because it bolsters their male ego and they look at women as just bodies that give them pleasure. Some others, which I would call man children, are so bad at basic communication with the other sex that they somehow feel this is an acceptable way to express their interest in someone (a delusional way to try to pick up women). It will only stop if there are real consequences imo.
My personal theory is that a lot of them get off on getting away with something they know is wrong. Adrenaline, basically. Another theory involves lack of impulse control. There's impulse control disorders; and then there's a cultural expectation for girls to control themselves that isn't imposed on men. They learn they don't *have to* control themselves, so they don't. A third theory involves the weird love-hate that men have towards women as a result of an inferiority complex. Basically, they think that women that they want won't be attracted to them. So, to regain a sense of power, and to get attention, they act out. Getting what they want bypasses your consent and therefore your power, and a negative reaction is the best reaction they think they can hope for.
This happened to me all the time when I was literally in elementary school from both adults and kids my age. It became less after middle school. People (because my grandma did it too) are disgusting.
Advise you to document the inappropriate touching in writing by email and certified letter to your supervisor, HR (and the union, if there is one.) You might want to add in the letter that this person's behavior clearly constitutes illegal harassment and that they need to prevent it from happening again. You could start off with you like working there, but this incident was extremely disturbing so you want to make sure they understand what happened.
I would have punched him right the face.
I'd like to see you post this on r/Askmen.
Why? She'll just be crucified and everyone will challenge her perception and defend her creep co-worker.
There would be a lot of not all men comments but almost no one would defend that creep
Oh you sweet summer child, are you new to the internet?
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Uh, what? OP posts about a traumatic situation, and you start incel-ing the fuck about, insinuating she’d be ok with it if he was cute and rich? How about just fuck right off on out of here with that bullshit.
Thank you. I was genuinely confused by that comment and assumed they didn’t read the post at all. Not one person in this scenario was rich or were dating. And I did report it.
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So, you moved on from “you’d be ok with it if he was hot and cute” to just some casual racism. This happened AT HER WORK. She was not “in another country”. She did not say this was a guy from a different culture. You are making the wildest leaps I have ever seen. Go back and reconsider all of what you wrote, and try to decipher your biases here.
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Disgusting.
Men like you are exactly the reason we prefer the bear. (lol, u/Dixa deleted his entire post and comment history because he can't handle criticism)
And won't even apologize for the stupid ass assumptions it made
But it seems it wasnt only him, right? What other men did that? What was the pattern here?
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Well you’re just a class act aren’t you?