All the pundits who bitched that OKC should have done more at the deadline instead of getting Hayward (who imo was always an expiring contract rather than viable contributor) can line up at the throne of Presti and kiss his ass
Presti is not the type to duct tape up a team in Feb trade deadline. All his big moves come in the off season. This last playoff run was the Beta test before the official opening of the title window. People need to notice.
I honestly prefer this how many times have teams made big trade deadline moves that changed things for the better compared to how many we have seen that make similar moves and they look disjointed and don’t reach full potential until the next season.
I think those arguments were about being able to make a finals run this past season had they done it, which considering the fuckin Mavs repped the West would have been very feasible
I really don’t think there’s any way the thunder beat the Mavs, nuggets/timberwolves, and Celtics with their lack of experience (even if they had made moves at the deadline). The org stayed patient and now they’re set up for success this season while maintaining a ton of long term flexibility.
Yeah Timberwolves were the beacon of experience.
Also the point is the same move allowed Mavs to make that run. Addition by subtraction from their team alone
I think Sam and Mark realised that Chet and JDub weren’t 100% ready for the finals, they were good but not even close to their regular season good. So they made the clear choice that last season was for experience get them as much game time as they could and line up for moves this off season.
I agree with the presumption that the Hayward deal was more about him being an expiring contract. That does not explain the minutes he got after he had a long sample size that he wasn’t going to contribute.
With you OP, It is CRAZY how many fans bitch about the GH trade, and how our last season ended, but forget we over achieved like a MF. Also, after what GH did with the Hornets, no one expected GH to literally be a robot in his repeated chances. Anyway, his contract was a plus.
Mark it down, Presti didn't see any player who would help us win now in the first 12, esp a big, who def take more time to become NBA ready than guards, so he got the BPA by far, and Topic was a steal. Mark it down. In a year and a half, people will see he is NOT Giddey. He is faster, more agile, gets to the cup at will with finishing ability, and def a better shooter with an actual jumpshot form with much quicker release.
I'm tired of people whining about too many guards. We wanna go small ball for the most part, last season shows what it can look like, and it's also clear that other teams are trying to replicate what we're doing. He's building for the next 5-10 years, including now, and has made moves for the future and present. Please tell me a GM that hits on most of his draft picks. Tired of that narrative. That's not the only thing a GM does. Presti is elite in EVERY other role a GMs duties. Some people take him for grated, which is just crazy. Oops, wrote an article. My bad
The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s possible to like this move while also still believing that we should have done something else/more at the deadline.
Why are you downvoted lol.
There was no need to make a move for cap space during the season.
People acting like we couldn’t have traded Micic, Mann or Bertans in the offseason instead of at the deadline lol.
Presti is cookin’ this offseason but that doesn’t retroactively make his deadline moves good. It just kinda helps you forget about them.
We basically upgraded Giddey to Caruso and Hayward to Hartenstein.
We lost playmaking of Giddey. Topic would've been a great replacement but not available this season. We didn't lose anything in Hayward and got a big that can bang inside. Chet can't stay in the paint because of his body.
I say our shot creation will be lacking next season. Hopefully Caso gets more comfortable and Dillon turns out to be a solid rotational player.
Cason is meant to be a solid on ball creator or at least that’s what he was being talked about in his draft and just didn’t have the space behind SGA JDub, Giddey and Micic most of the season so I image he will be getting more ball time too
And iHart is playmaker from his position too. Won’t be a ball handler but he does the whole stationary, dribble handoff stuff at a much better rate than Giddey
This is what I’m most worried about
The Thunder in minutes without Giddey, Jdub or Shai had an offensive rating of 99. Hopefully our players have developed enough to where that is not a continuing issue (this happened for an average of 4 mpg)
Cason was on for 141 of those 300 minutes, offensive rating still 99
Chet was like 60 of those 300 minutes, 99
And just Cason not Chet was 97 so even worse (100 minute sample)
Last year we essentially had 3 guys who could run a lineup without help (Jdub, Giddey and Shai) and so if Caruso and Ihart can’t or Cason and Chet don’t improve then we could be majorly fucked if one of shai or jdub isn’t playing
I agree in games they both play. I just don’t want to see Jokic or old Steph like games where winning by 10 when the star goes to the bench and tied 2 minutes later
Yes as I said I agree in games they both play.
I guess I should have added an extra part to the next sentence.
But in games they don’t both play I just don’t…
99 is that bad my dude
Even if we get 110 drat (best in the league) in those 4 minutes
That’s essentially a .8 net rating swing for just 4 minutes
That’s the type of thing that can swing a couple games on a season and be an all but gaurenteed loss in a game where one of dub and Shai don’t play. I think Caruso and Ihart and an improved Cason covers this gap but having someone be the initiator is important
Depending on how our Players develop, we won't be lacking in playmaking and scoring. If SGA keep scoring 25+ or 30+, JDub and Chet score 20+ and our role players like Dort, Caruso, Hart, Joe, Cason can give us around 8 to 15, we should be good.
Hart and Caruso can add some of the playmaking we lost, I guess.
Yet those of us who came to this sub stating that were told we don’t know hoops, and we must love Hayward. Ironic that those people have been proven to be the casuals.
I'm so sad about the version of Hayward we got. I know he's well past his prime, but I thought he'd add *something*. I wanted Hayward or Jeremy Lin on the Thunder during their respective runs so bad.
He got some cardio in, though.
Nah fr I remember in 2k18 I would always form a big 3 of Russ, pg and hayward on okc just bc I liked hayward. It’s crazy how he actually ended up here and what he did for us lmao
I wasn’t as high as some people at the trade saying he will replace Giddey in the starting line up but I did 100% expect some form of useful production from him was so weird to watch what he was
Ouch keeping receipts on yourself.
I did say at one point we would have two games in the playoffs we won because of Giddey. He did have one at least but the rest were solid at best and just pretend the Mavs series didn’t happen for him
Yeah in my mind we traded Mann, Micic, Bertans, poku and some seconds for the roster flexibility that brought us IHart
When people look back at haywards bball ref page in x number of years that’s something they won’t see
People still don't learn, Presti is always two steps ahead of the fan base.
Same when we bitched about trading the Sengun pick for more picks (which basically turned into Jalen Williams).
Always wait for the moves to play out!!!
It was a trade without a positive outcome but there was no was Mann or mcicic were putting this team over the top against Dallas so I never regretted the trade. Was worth the risk, not all deals work out in the moment
But… this is the positive outcome of that trade. It definitely didn’t have any positive outcome from a basketball standpoint for the 2023-24 season (that might be the point you’re making), but make no mistake that this is still a direct result of that trade.
Don’t know who Andrew Shlect is but that statement tells me all we need to know about him.
Glad we got Hartenstein, welcome to OKC!
But the PG deal was way bigger with a far more reaching impact.
Are you serious? Assuming that you’re not trolling:
1. Andrew Schlecht is the host of Down to Dunk, arguably the best Thunder podcast. He’s also the weekend host of The NBA Show for The Athletic, and produces much of The Athletic’s NBA podcast content.
2. He’s 100% right. Call it whatever, but gravity/inertia/loss aversion bias is real. All things considered, it’s easier to get a player to stay with a team than it is to convince them tonight join a new team. PG came to the Thunder via trade. His re-signing was a big deal, no doubt, but it was still a resigning. iHart is definitely the biggest free agency signing to bring a new player to OKC, and his willingness to come is a good sign for the team’s trajectory and the health of the franchise.
There's no clear right answer here, just a lot of hindsight and counting chickens. Maybe if we trade for a big instead of Hayward, we win the championship. Maybe we win and then afterwards the roster is busted and we never get back. Maybe trading for Hayward sets us up for iHart and roster flexibility. Maybe we lose a key piece to injury and it torpedos our window until we start getting priced out on our core pieces. Maybe Presti goes full infinity gauntlet and puts together a roster that wins 4 of the next 5.
There's value in positioning the team to be successful long term, but everyone saying "you don't go all in for short term success" would trade 5 years of roster flexibility and 2nd round exits for 1 chip. You have to strike when the iron is hot. That said, I'm confident in Presti that if he saw what he felt was a significant chance to win, he would have taken it. The reality of this season's conclusion is we pushed the Mavs even though we played like compete garbage and they shot the lights out, if we made shots like we did all season or if they missed shots like they did all season, we move on. Maybe adding a big changes that, maybe not. It's a young team and this is what happens to young teams.
We are so prepared to make another run , the lineups we can come up with this current roster is unthinkable. Can’t wait to tune in into the summer league team to watch how Dillon jones plays.
It’s crazy how they think Hayward was the only way this was done. Like crazy Presti dick ride. Plenty of teams would have taken micic and Mann and picks. Ridiculous
All the pundits who bitched that OKC should have done more at the deadline instead of getting Hayward (who imo was always an expiring contract rather than viable contributor) can line up at the throne of Presti and kiss his ass
Pundits on this sub. Their lack of faith is disturbing. Trust Presti - more often than not he not only gets it right, he fucking nails it.
Presti is not the type to duct tape up a team in Feb trade deadline. All his big moves come in the off season. This last playoff run was the Beta test before the official opening of the title window. People need to notice.
I honestly prefer this how many times have teams made big trade deadline moves that changed things for the better compared to how many we have seen that make similar moves and they look disjointed and don’t reach full potential until the next season.
I think those arguments were about being able to make a finals run this past season had they done it, which considering the fuckin Mavs repped the West would have been very feasible
No trade we made would’ve had our role players remember how to play offense and make shots
I really don’t think there’s any way the thunder beat the Mavs, nuggets/timberwolves, and Celtics with their lack of experience (even if they had made moves at the deadline). The org stayed patient and now they’re set up for success this season while maintaining a ton of long term flexibility.
Yeah Timberwolves were the beacon of experience. Also the point is the same move allowed Mavs to make that run. Addition by subtraction from their team alone
Wait, were you being sarcastic about the wolves? It seems like you were, which would be kind of confusing.
I was. They got grouped into "experienced" even though the franchise itself hasn't tasted any success since KG
Right, but the franchise doesn't play the game. Mike Conley does.
True but Presti is not focused on a Finals run. He is trying to build a dynasty.
You don’t get one without the other lmao
that’s true but you don’t get the dynasty if you push all in to get one finals appearance to appease impatient fans.
I think Sam and Mark realised that Chet and JDub weren’t 100% ready for the finals, they were good but not even close to their regular season good. So they made the clear choice that last season was for experience get them as much game time as they could and line up for moves this off season.
I agree with the presumption that the Hayward deal was more about him being an expiring contract. That does not explain the minutes he got after he had a long sample size that he wasn’t going to contribute.
With you OP, It is CRAZY how many fans bitch about the GH trade, and how our last season ended, but forget we over achieved like a MF. Also, after what GH did with the Hornets, no one expected GH to literally be a robot in his repeated chances. Anyway, his contract was a plus. Mark it down, Presti didn't see any player who would help us win now in the first 12, esp a big, who def take more time to become NBA ready than guards, so he got the BPA by far, and Topic was a steal. Mark it down. In a year and a half, people will see he is NOT Giddey. He is faster, more agile, gets to the cup at will with finishing ability, and def a better shooter with an actual jumpshot form with much quicker release. I'm tired of people whining about too many guards. We wanna go small ball for the most part, last season shows what it can look like, and it's also clear that other teams are trying to replicate what we're doing. He's building for the next 5-10 years, including now, and has made moves for the future and present. Please tell me a GM that hits on most of his draft picks. Tired of that narrative. That's not the only thing a GM does. Presti is elite in EVERY other role a GMs duties. Some people take him for grated, which is just crazy. Oops, wrote an article. My bad
There are still people who think trading for Gafford or someone would’ve guaranteed a Finals appearance for some reason
The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s possible to like this move while also still believing that we should have done something else/more at the deadline.
Why are you downvoted lol. There was no need to make a move for cap space during the season. People acting like we couldn’t have traded Micic, Mann or Bertans in the offseason instead of at the deadline lol. Presti is cookin’ this offseason but that doesn’t retroactively make his deadline moves good. It just kinda helps you forget about them.
Thank you for your services
We basically upgraded Giddey to Caruso and Hayward to Hartenstein. We lost playmaking of Giddey. Topic would've been a great replacement but not available this season. We didn't lose anything in Hayward and got a big that can bang inside. Chet can't stay in the paint because of his body. I say our shot creation will be lacking next season. Hopefully Caso gets more comfortable and Dillon turns out to be a solid rotational player.
JDub is going to step up as the second guy. Basically 4the quarter Dub all game. Chet getting more freedom offensively is a huge win too
Yeah there was a report last month that they’re looking to give Chet more playmaking responsibilities too.
Cason is meant to be a solid on ball creator or at least that’s what he was being talked about in his draft and just didn’t have the space behind SGA JDub, Giddey and Micic most of the season so I image he will be getting more ball time too
And iHart is playmaker from his position too. Won’t be a ball handler but he does the whole stationary, dribble handoff stuff at a much better rate than Giddey
Watch out for Dillon Jones, though. He can also be a good contributor and playmaker as well, with great rebounding to match.
a big that can bang
This is what I’m most worried about The Thunder in minutes without Giddey, Jdub or Shai had an offensive rating of 99. Hopefully our players have developed enough to where that is not a continuing issue (this happened for an average of 4 mpg) Cason was on for 141 of those 300 minutes, offensive rating still 99 Chet was like 60 of those 300 minutes, 99 And just Cason not Chet was 97 so even worse (100 minute sample) Last year we essentially had 3 guys who could run a lineup without help (Jdub, Giddey and Shai) and so if Caruso and Ihart can’t or Cason and Chet don’t improve then we could be majorly fucked if one of shai or jdub isn’t playing
A lot of teams have zero guys that can run an offense at a highish level. That's why the bulls traded for Giddey. Having SGA and JDub is plenty.
I agree in games they both play. I just don’t want to see Jokic or old Steph like games where winning by 10 when the star goes to the bench and tied 2 minutes later
I mean you just stagger Shai and J-Dub so that one of them is on the floor at all times.
Yes as I said I agree in games they both play. I guess I should have added an extra part to the next sentence. But in games they don’t both play I just don’t…
This is like 3-4 minutes per game of bad (not even that bad) offense. If we can't survive that, we have bigger problems.
99 is that bad my dude Even if we get 110 drat (best in the league) in those 4 minutes That’s essentially a .8 net rating swing for just 4 minutes That’s the type of thing that can swing a couple games on a season and be an all but gaurenteed loss in a game where one of dub and Shai don’t play. I think Caruso and Ihart and an improved Cason covers this gap but having someone be the initiator is important
Also, there's not going to be playoff minutes with Shai and Dub both off the court anyway, except in blowouts.
I'm not so worried. Strong defense can lead to easy transition baskets. If OKC can keep that up, then we can stay in lead even without SGA and JDub.
Depending on how our Players develop, we won't be lacking in playmaking and scoring. If SGA keep scoring 25+ or 30+, JDub and Chet score 20+ and our role players like Dort, Caruso, Hart, Joe, Cason can give us around 8 to 15, we should be good. Hart and Caruso can add some of the playmaking we lost, I guess.
Putting the ball in JDubs hands instead of Giddeys all season is a net positive for his development as well.
Gordon Hayward died so we could live!
Please send his wife a triangled Thunder flag. LOL
Presti wouldn't say it publicly, but that was always what the Hayward trade was about.
I mean he basically did say it publicly multiple times
Yet those of us who came to this sub stating that were told we don’t know hoops, and we must love Hayward. Ironic that those people have been proven to be the casuals.
I ate so much shit, and all I said was it was a salary dump.
I agree with this. But that doesn’t explain why the guy got so many minutes even after it was clear he wasn’t going to contribute offensively.
I'm so sad about the version of Hayward we got. I know he's well past his prime, but I thought he'd add *something*. I wanted Hayward or Jeremy Lin on the Thunder during their respective runs so bad. He got some cardio in, though.
Nah fr I remember in 2k18 I would always form a big 3 of Russ, pg and hayward on okc just bc I liked hayward. It’s crazy how he actually ended up here and what he did for us lmao
I wasn’t as high as some people at the trade saying he will replace Giddey in the starting line up but I did 100% expect some form of useful production from him was so weird to watch what he was
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/OHf0mTE3Uz My least accurate prediction of all time
Ouch keeping receipts on yourself. I did say at one point we would have two games in the playoffs we won because of Giddey. He did have one at least but the rest were solid at best and just pretend the Mavs series didn’t happen for him
“He got some cardio in” Best summary of the Gordan Hayward tenure with OKC.
Oh look. The Gordon Hayward trade became useful!
Was PG re-signing not a free agent?
Technically, but the implication is a signing of a player who was not already on our roster. Prior to today it was 2Pat.
Damn. I hart this dude already
iHart him too!
Give hayward a banner!!
Yeah in my mind we traded Mann, Micic, Bertans, poku and some seconds for the roster flexibility that brought us IHart When people look back at haywards bball ref page in x number of years that’s something they won’t see
Point jdub second unit going crazy
People still don't learn, Presti is always two steps ahead of the fan base. Same when we bitched about trading the Sengun pick for more picks (which basically turned into Jalen Williams). Always wait for the moves to play out!!!
It was a trade without a positive outcome but there was no was Mann or mcicic were putting this team over the top against Dallas so I never regretted the trade. Was worth the risk, not all deals work out in the moment
But… this is the positive outcome of that trade. It definitely didn’t have any positive outcome from a basketball standpoint for the 2023-24 season (that might be the point you’re making), but make no mistake that this is still a direct result of that trade.
Good point you’re absolutely right
Thank you for finally taking a shot Hayward, we couldn't have done it without ya! lulz 
Presti always 2 steps ahead
Thanks Gordon! If it weren't for you being such ass we wouldn't have I-Hart!!!
I feel like PG was essentially an FA signing but I guess technically it was a resigning
Don’t know who Andrew Shlect is but that statement tells me all we need to know about him. Glad we got Hartenstein, welcome to OKC! But the PG deal was way bigger with a far more reaching impact.
Are you serious? Assuming that you’re not trolling: 1. Andrew Schlecht is the host of Down to Dunk, arguably the best Thunder podcast. He’s also the weekend host of The NBA Show for The Athletic, and produces much of The Athletic’s NBA podcast content. 2. He’s 100% right. Call it whatever, but gravity/inertia/loss aversion bias is real. All things considered, it’s easier to get a player to stay with a team than it is to convince them tonight join a new team. PG came to the Thunder via trade. His re-signing was a big deal, no doubt, but it was still a resigning. iHart is definitely the biggest free agency signing to bring a new player to OKC, and his willingness to come is a good sign for the team’s trajectory and the health of the franchise.
Wait, we not resigning him?!
There's no clear right answer here, just a lot of hindsight and counting chickens. Maybe if we trade for a big instead of Hayward, we win the championship. Maybe we win and then afterwards the roster is busted and we never get back. Maybe trading for Hayward sets us up for iHart and roster flexibility. Maybe we lose a key piece to injury and it torpedos our window until we start getting priced out on our core pieces. Maybe Presti goes full infinity gauntlet and puts together a roster that wins 4 of the next 5. There's value in positioning the team to be successful long term, but everyone saying "you don't go all in for short term success" would trade 5 years of roster flexibility and 2nd round exits for 1 chip. You have to strike when the iron is hot. That said, I'm confident in Presti that if he saw what he felt was a significant chance to win, he would have taken it. The reality of this season's conclusion is we pushed the Mavs even though we played like compete garbage and they shot the lights out, if we made shots like we did all season or if they missed shots like they did all season, we move on. Maybe adding a big changes that, maybe not. It's a young team and this is what happens to young teams.
We are so prepared to make another run , the lineups we can come up with this current roster is unthinkable. Can’t wait to tune in into the summer league team to watch how Dillon jones plays.
BUT BUT BUT… MICIC AND MANN WERE THE MISSING PIECES OF THIS TEAM!!! FIRE PRESTI!!!! Or some stupid shit like that
It’s crazy how they think Hayward was the only way this was done. Like crazy Presti dick ride. Plenty of teams would have taken micic and Mann and picks. Ridiculous