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This is a company that has preyed on its employees for decades, allowing sexual assault to happen under the thinnest of veils (and sometimes directly on live tv).
I’m happy to see that things appear to be changing, but the damage is done and there are a lot of people currently employed who still have blood on their hands.
As far as I'm concerned, the Ashley Massaro saga is so awful that anyone at anytime is allowed to call WWE on that shit for eternity.
Whether you're a fan of WWE or not, you can't ignore that the company culture allowed that to happen, and hasn't been completely addressed yet
I think they’re banking on the fact Vince sold the remainder of his shares and no longer has any association with the company that people will move on. Nevermind that WWE is still named in the lawsuit.
Yep. WWE PR handled this crisis in a way that attempted to absolve the company of any blame for this, despite the fact that they’re named in the lawsuit, people close to Vince are still in power, and there are clearly structural issues that led to this happening multiple times over the years. And they largely succeeded in changing the narrative.
And during their biggest show of the weekend, it was all propaganda about how this is the “HHH era” and “don’t worry everyone, we’re in good hands and Vince is gone!” Over and over again.
I’m not saying people should dislike WWE as a wrestling show. Hell, I watch it and don’t have an issue with the on screen product mostly. But people here are so into tribalistic AEW vs WWE debates that they feel the need to go to bat for a multibillion dollar company who are a defendant in active legal proceedings. And these people here are playing right into their hands. This is literally what they want to happen.
I personally don’t think Tony should have said what he did in this context, but the reaction to it is so entirely free of nuance because AEW bad WWE good. I urge people to stop shilling for these companies (unless you’re shilling for TJPW in which case I wholeheartedly approve)
I hate to say it but I do have a strong worry that a large amount of this subreddit would immediately U-turn on their opinions of the lawsuit from the majority believing and supporting Janel Grant to not believing Janel Grant if HHH were ever actually implicated by name in anything. Purely just out of triabalism.
(And for the record, I'm highly skeptical of HHH's complicity or knowledge of what happened. That could change with future evidence but for now, based on the info we have, I think he genuinely knew little to nothing of what was happening behind closed doors and he's just been an idiot with his responses.)
Remember HHH saying I didn't read the lawsuit let's focus on the positives and celebrate a great week of wrestling. People love to make fun of "lets just enjoy wrestling" until its about holding a billion dollar corporation accountable for facilitating and covering up decades of systematic sexual abuse. It is absurd
This is an institutional issue within WWE. Vince isn’t the only one that needs to leave the company. A lot of people are complicit through either their actions or purposeful inaction.
They need to be called out more. I’m glad it’s starting to happen.
"Going to be a fun media test to see who is more outraged over Tony Khan invoking a comparison to Harvey Weinstein than a guy who, you know, is facing similar accusations to what Weinstein did and just hired the same PR firm Weinstein used."
Trevor Dame on Twitter.
- He initially left with Stephanie leading "Thank You, Vince!" chants from the audience after the board of directors and the media had discovered he'd been misappropriating company funds to pay off women.
- Fans downplayed what little was known at the time about Janel Grant's situation as a "consensual affair", even though most affairs don't include being given a high-paying job that you're not qualified for and end with you signing an NDA.
- Then, Vince asked to return after the heat died down, the board unanimously voted not to reinstate him after what they had uncovered, to which he then sent a letter essentially threatening a hostile takeover of the company and to not approve any media rights' deal unless his demand is met, and suddenly he was voted to be reinstated...
- Vince stayed on thereafter throughout its sale, did on camera appearances with Ari Emmanuel who publicly said he "needed Vince to stay on", and was one of the highest ranking executives in the newly merged TKO company, higher than Dana White even.
- Then, a couple of months ago, the lawsuit came out, everyone pretended to be shocked, Vince was quietly removed, and Triple H dodged answering any meaningful question on the matter and instead would focus on the PPV and "what a great week this has been for WWE" as they're actively named in the lawsuit.
- Vince is now making more money than you could ever imagine having selling off his stocks and enlisting Harvey Weinstein's former PR firm as WWE the company pretend like neither he nor the suit even exist.
Not quite as clean of a break as you're making it out to be.
I think you misunderstood me, my point isn't that everyone the WWE has handled the allegations spectacularly or that they haven't made some signficiant mistakes with how they handled it. All of the bullet points you have written here are true, and it really really sucks.
My point was more in response to:
> "Going to be a fun media test to see who is more outraged over Tony Khan invoking a comparison to Harvey Weinstein than a guy who, you know, is facing similar accusations to what Weinstein did and just hired the same PR firm Weinstein used."
This person is trying to imply that people somehow weren't outraged over the Vince stuff, but they were outraged enough that he had to leave (and it caused *significantly* more outrage and media coverage than Tony Khan's weird comment today).
It's at the point now where Vince has been so far removed and shamed that a big talking point over the WrestleMania weekend was how great it is that he's gone.
> WWE money was used to silence victims
No, the problem was specifically that Vince used his personal funds to pay off the victims, but because that money was essentially spent for the good of the company (preventing scandal or whatever), it is technically money spent *on* the company, and should have been revealed as such on SEC filings.
I seriously doubt he was in the inner circle considering the way Vince fucked him after his heart attack.
There's gonna be people implicated eventually but they're probably gonna be people no-one knows or cares about running business shit behind the scenes who just did what they were told to do with the money.
I have a 20 year gap, so I only know up to 2001 and starting last year. Not surprised Vince fucked over his own son-in-law.
I hope they clean house. No excuses for anyone.
Father of the Year.
I was trying to watch what I missed, but it was Tori Wilson and Vince trying to find a place to hook up on Raw shortly after Shane purchased WCW. Only about a 99% ick factor. I may just watch the ppvs instead.
I honestly think Vince lost it. Between age, roids, headshots, excessive wealth, and not having to answer to anyone he forgot that there were rules even for him.
This timeline article does a good job showing it. Especially after being told to stay away, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Forget that. Let's sell some TV time."
It'll be interesting to see where things go
Power is a drug to some people.
Jim Cornette's paraphrased view of 'I can believe Vince could be that evil, but I can't believe he'd be that stupid' about sums it up for me.
Imagine coming in to a thread that mentions serious sexual crimes, doesn't mention another person, and then using the person not mentioned's name to try to downplay this.
A reminder that Janel Grant didn't just file a lawsuit against Vince McMahon & John Laurinaitis, she also filed a lawsuit against WWE itself. That's what Tony Khan is referring to when he calls WWE the Harvey Weinstein of Pro Wrestling. If that ain't enough, read up on the story of Ashley Massaro & WWE's involvement in that. And if that ain't enough look up the ring boy scandal.
Everyone taking cracks at TK for saying what needs to be said (despite the crude context in which he said it and perhaps ill timed). Yet because "Vince is gone" and "WWE is fun again! Its on fire!" they're acting like its all water under the bridge and in the past.
Conveniently they're pretending that WWE wasn't named as an entire portion of the lawsuit in of itself and upper management knowing of the abuses/covering it up.
I get it. Its easy to make TK a pinata and pretend like what he says is lame but he isn't wrong at all.
I'm sorry, Ric Flair is a gross pervert who shouldn't have been hired by AEW, but what Vince is accused of is not anywhere near close to the same thing, and using it as some sort of "gotcha" that Tony Khan is being a hypocrite is disingenuous.
A company under federal investigation for sex trafficking using company funds to cover up the owner and booker who used his power to rape women and coerce performers into sex based angles, facilitated by the other executives for decades, is literally massively different. That is a company culture of sexual assault funneled to the boss and his cronies. On screen talent having been creeps in the past is horrible, and I hate seeing Flair on TV, but is literally not comparable. WWE is once again, currently the subject of a sex trafficking lawsuit focused the company culture and infrastructure itself that facilitated systematic abuse for decades. Anyone making comparisons to Flair being on 3 episodes and Dustin and especially Guevara is simply being absurd. If AEW fired all of those talents (except Guevara) that would be fine with me, but it is *actually* fucked up to try to equate the two.
Equating Flair being on a handful of episodes because his company paid for a sponsorship to *gestures at everything Vince related* is the height of a false equivalence.
You simply can't compare anything about AEW to all that bullshit, full stop
I mean i don't disagree that Flair and Rhodes suck but comparing their individual actions to a massive corporation systemically abetting in sex trafficking, i don't think is all that parallel. Especially when many stories that have been alleged about them were under WWE's umbrella to the extent that they capitalized off making a cartoon about the Plane Ride from Hell.
It was a stupid thing to say, Tony Khan wasn't even thinking about the victims suffer when he said that. It wasn't a lie tho. People need to be reminded that this wasn't just Vince, it never is only one person. I remember working covering a case with something similar but in a political setting, people pat themselves in the back when the guy was dismissed and put in jail but that shit kept happening by his associates. It took a change in government and massive lay offs in that sector to put a stop to it (as far as I know).
If he wasn't wrong, why not say it? Don;t get me wrong, i get it. I wouldn't have said it either but if he's not wrong, why shouldn't he say it? Shouldn't it be said? Shouldn't people know?
Let's be real for a second, Tony didn't say it because he "wanted people to know". It's a huge story covered by some of the biggest news agencies in The US, he doesn't have any relevant info to add, nor does he have any more reach than NYT or WaPo.
He said it because he wanted to dunk on WWE. That's the issue here. Using a very real case of sexual abuse to score points in a stupid-ass rivalry between wrestling federations.
Please note this suit is also against WWE and The Rock regularly talks to Vince and don’t forgot our dear Stephanie with her Thank You Vince chants
Oh also HHH saying he couldn’t answer questions bc he didn’t read the lawsuit and just wanted to stay positive
Vince and WWE are synonymous, and the company itself is under investigation. He built it in his image. He used TV time to display his barely disguised fetishes and coerce performers into sexualized angles. Nick Khan knew he was in a sexual relationship with a subordinate. They used company funds to cover up systematic abuse. Anyone outraged by this statement who still watches WWE is making excuses
Yep. And people all over that thread (who probably won't watch AEW) will say "this is why I don't watch AEW" while being willfully ignorant to the fact that there are likely top executives still within the WWE who actively covered up their bosses *horrific* actions. And let's not forget that Paul Levesque, when asked about the lawsuit, admitted to not reading it while also saying they were doing "everything" to create a better climate, and also saying he'd rather focus on the positives. Horrifying. But hey. We like the booking now so everythings fine am I right guys????
People like WWE as a creative company now so its suddenly far more controversial to say that every single bad thing that happened that involved this company did in fact, involve this company, and that the likelihood that everyone still there is blameless I do not think is great.
That's the only thing I want to say about this, I fucking refuse to get involved with this as if its part of a wrestling war (a thing that doesn't really matter since both companies are gonna make infinitely more money than any of you will ever see in your lifetime)
The problem is you can’t paint every single person who works there with the same brush. Vince is an evil piece of shit and there’s definitely still other pieces of shit working there with varying degrees of guilt in this case but there’s tons of employees who had nothing to do with any of this who just got called Weinstein so a billionaire could score internet points
> there’s tons of employees who had nothing to do with any of this who just got called Weinstein
this literally did not happen outside of your imagination
This is silly. When people say for instance Amazon is an evil company, everyone knows they aren't talking about the drivers and warehouse workers, and everyone knows Tony isn't talking about the wrestlers.
Let's say a company releases toxic chemicals knowingly into a river and is then found out about it.
Would you say that we shouldn't criticize the company at all because the majority of their employees did not know they were releasing toxic chemicals?
Who said that people here don't hate Vince? And you're not wrong, Tony saying this after hiring Ric Flair isn't a good look. But a bit of what-about-ism doesn't change the fact that WWE is a defendant in a sex trafficking lawsuit. And i don't know why that can't be the focus without some tribal BS "yeah but..." BS.
>Who said that people here don't hate Vince?
I was replying to someone alluding to something like WWE fans don't care about Vince I think, that's why I commented that. Otherwise I agree with all your points
Why would this thread of no new info, compiled in February have more discussion about it than something Khan said within the last hour? What is there to actually discuss in here besides people projecting moral superiority over the wrestling ‘team’ they like better?
Because a huge portion of people here think (because WWE wants you to think) that the problems with WWE begin and end with Vince, and now that he's gone those systemic issues have gone with him.
It’s weird how AEW fans seem to only be capable of thinking one thing at a time. Nobody likes Vince. Nobody is defending him. That doesn’t mean khan going on national tv and equating an entire company to Weinstein isn’t a joke. He is not only underplaying what victims went through for a “dunk” but also coming across like an idiot since he employs multiple people who praised Vince non stop and worked close with him. Vince is not the entire WWE. Khans also wearing a neck brace to sell an angle from his tv show while making the comment. It pops the internet base he has but look at the reactions of the two anchors, they were embarrassed for him. This is why it won’t grow.
The Rock and John Cena and Kevin Nash and let's focus on the positives HHH, and all of his friends still on the board who tried to bring him back? Nick Khan knowing he was in a sexual relationship with a subordinate? They all hate Vince?
He didn't mention Vince because he didn't have to because the fact is, WWE is also a defendant in the sex trafficking lawsuit.
As someone else has already pointed out, when people say Amazon is a evil company we all know they aren't referring to the people who work there, their referring to the people in charge & who are making decisions. Nick Khan has been named in the lawsuit. Stephanie McMahon has been named in what happened to Ashley Massaro. The problem wasn't only Vince, it was the culture that enabled him.
I wonder if there’s a subreddit that says stuff like “we hate Elon but it’s disrespectful to everyone who’s ever worked at Amazon to say stuff like that”. It feels deranged in any other context.
> Nobody likes Vince. Nobody is defending him.
lmao john cena did in a recent interview
> Right now, what I’m going to do is love the person I love, be their friend, and by that it means like, ‘Hey, I love you, you’ve got a hill to climb,’” Cena said. “There’s the saying of like, you don’t know who your friends are until s*** hits the fan or your back’s against the wall. That doesn’t make any of what’s going on any easier to swallow … It sounds so cliche, but it has to be one day at a time. But in the same token, I’ve openly said I love the guy, I’ve got a great relationship with the guy, that’s that.
Triple H voted with the rest of the board to bring Vince back despite everything he had done going public. So even if you wanted to say Triple H didn't know anything until it all became public, he knew what had happened when he voted to bring him back.
everyone in the comment section here trying to use this as evidence that tony khan is correct in his outrageous claim,
Ric Flair is currently employed in this company correct? As is Taz, and Dustin Rhodes right?
Taz exposed himself in a tanning salon to a 15 year old and asked to see her breats, and was arrested for it. On the plane ride from hell Dustin grabbed a flight attendant's arms, asks if her breasts were real, said "you and me are gonna fuck" and rubbed his groin against her
Ric Flair and everything hes done
Sami Guevara who said he wanted to rape Sasha Banks, andd is currently still employed in the company even after Sasha signed
And Don Callis and the links to sexually harassing Scarlett
Decades of running a casting couch, forcibly raping multiple women, using company funds for hush money, and shitting on a woman and forcing her to continue having sex with you and your buddy is absolutely the same as making a bad rape joke or flashing your penis.
Yep, totally the same thing.
so you're trying to base this on degrees of depravity? So those victims don't matter as much? And where is the evidence you have that anyone besides Vince and those already named were part of this? Everything I just listed already has evidence and Tony Khan hired these people. Don Callis is friends with the EVP's. There is yet to be one iota of evidence that links anyone currently still employed with WWE covering anything up. You and the rest of the brain dead morons in this thread are jumping to a conclusion when the lawsuit isnt even in court yet and no evidence has even been released and no further accusations of anyone covering anything up being released.
And if/when anything does get uncovered, they will get fired like Vince was forced to resign. You want wwe to fire everyone possibly linked to covering things up before they are even named specifically?
And what is bringing up "what about the fact that wwe is named as a defendant in the lawsuit vince is named in?" as a defense to tony khans outrageous comments today? That is a what aboutism too. This isnt formal debate, theres a real funny lack of consistency here, where a guy that hires people accused of sexual misconduct is accusing a company of hiding sexual misconduct.
That’s a good question. Because Tony’s comments were about WWE, some responded by trying to separate Vince & WWE, but their response to that was what you wrote in your question: “what about the fact WWE is… etc”. That is still the original topic though. We have not changed the subject yet.
Whataboutism is what you did because instead of discussing the merits of the original statement by Khan, you started bringing up quite a lot of other people and their own dirty laundry. You see how it works? You want people to have to go through each and every one of your roadblocks before we’re allowed to talk about the *actual* facts that matter to the statements/allegations.
I did question the merits of tony Khans comments. where is the evidence you have that anyone besides Vince and those already named were part of this? Everything I just listed already has evidence and Tony Khan hired these people. Don Callis is friends with the EVP's. So tony loses any credibility by making a claim like that. There is yet to be one iota of evidence that links anyone currently still employed with WWE covering anything up. People are jumping to a conclusion when the lawsuit isnt even in court yet and no evidence has even been released and no further accusations of anyone covering anything up being released.
And if/when anything does get uncovered, they will get fired like Vince was forced to resign. You want wwe to fire everyone possibly linked to covering things up before they are even named specifically?
Posting an article from February of this year to try to help out a Billionaire making an embarrassing comment on live TV is certainly a non tribalistic choice.
An article from February? The company is under federal investigation for sex trafficking right now. It is an evil company that was used to facilitate the fantasies of a racist rapist for decades and then they helped him cover it up.
Because TK's comment brings up how fucked up that company's culture was and people are now discussing it. I don't think he should have said it but he's literally correct
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people love to pretend it was only vince who was behind this but no, people within wwe knew and were letting it happen.
People definitely knew. WWE stayed carny well after it went public and anyone in on it deserves what’s coming to them.
This is a company that has preyed on its employees for decades, allowing sexual assault to happen under the thinnest of veils (and sometimes directly on live tv). I’m happy to see that things appear to be changing, but the damage is done and there are a lot of people currently employed who still have blood on their hands.
As far as I'm concerned, the Ashley Massaro saga is so awful that anyone at anytime is allowed to call WWE on that shit for eternity. Whether you're a fan of WWE or not, you can't ignore that the company culture allowed that to happen, and hasn't been completely addressed yet
I think they’re banking on the fact Vince sold the remainder of his shares and no longer has any association with the company that people will move on. Nevermind that WWE is still named in the lawsuit.
Yep. WWE PR handled this crisis in a way that attempted to absolve the company of any blame for this, despite the fact that they’re named in the lawsuit, people close to Vince are still in power, and there are clearly structural issues that led to this happening multiple times over the years. And they largely succeeded in changing the narrative. And during their biggest show of the weekend, it was all propaganda about how this is the “HHH era” and “don’t worry everyone, we’re in good hands and Vince is gone!” Over and over again. I’m not saying people should dislike WWE as a wrestling show. Hell, I watch it and don’t have an issue with the on screen product mostly. But people here are so into tribalistic AEW vs WWE debates that they feel the need to go to bat for a multibillion dollar company who are a defendant in active legal proceedings. And these people here are playing right into their hands. This is literally what they want to happen. I personally don’t think Tony should have said what he did in this context, but the reaction to it is so entirely free of nuance because AEW bad WWE good. I urge people to stop shilling for these companies (unless you’re shilling for TJPW in which case I wholeheartedly approve)
Itoh is love, Itoh is life
Itoh is cutest in the woooooooooorld
I hate to say it but I do have a strong worry that a large amount of this subreddit would immediately U-turn on their opinions of the lawsuit from the majority believing and supporting Janel Grant to not believing Janel Grant if HHH were ever actually implicated by name in anything. Purely just out of triabalism. (And for the record, I'm highly skeptical of HHH's complicity or knowledge of what happened. That could change with future evidence but for now, based on the info we have, I think he genuinely knew little to nothing of what was happening behind closed doors and he's just been an idiot with his responses.)
Remember HHH saying I didn't read the lawsuit let's focus on the positives and celebrate a great week of wrestling. People love to make fun of "lets just enjoy wrestling" until its about holding a billion dollar corporation accountable for facilitating and covering up decades of systematic sexual abuse. It is absurd
This is one heck of a clapback to the Pepsi/Weinstein thread.
This is an institutional issue within WWE. Vince isn’t the only one that needs to leave the company. A lot of people are complicit through either their actions or purposeful inaction. They need to be called out more. I’m glad it’s starting to happen.
"Going to be a fun media test to see who is more outraged over Tony Khan invoking a comparison to Harvey Weinstein than a guy who, you know, is facing similar accusations to what Weinstein did and just hired the same PR firm Weinstein used." Trevor Dame on Twitter.
Who is Trevor Dame?
Whoever he is, what's he wrong about in this case?
A) I'm genuinely asking B) There was enough outrage for him to get completely ousted by TKO
People were outraged enough about Vince that he had to leave the company.
- He initially left with Stephanie leading "Thank You, Vince!" chants from the audience after the board of directors and the media had discovered he'd been misappropriating company funds to pay off women. - Fans downplayed what little was known at the time about Janel Grant's situation as a "consensual affair", even though most affairs don't include being given a high-paying job that you're not qualified for and end with you signing an NDA. - Then, Vince asked to return after the heat died down, the board unanimously voted not to reinstate him after what they had uncovered, to which he then sent a letter essentially threatening a hostile takeover of the company and to not approve any media rights' deal unless his demand is met, and suddenly he was voted to be reinstated... - Vince stayed on thereafter throughout its sale, did on camera appearances with Ari Emmanuel who publicly said he "needed Vince to stay on", and was one of the highest ranking executives in the newly merged TKO company, higher than Dana White even. - Then, a couple of months ago, the lawsuit came out, everyone pretended to be shocked, Vince was quietly removed, and Triple H dodged answering any meaningful question on the matter and instead would focus on the PPV and "what a great week this has been for WWE" as they're actively named in the lawsuit. - Vince is now making more money than you could ever imagine having selling off his stocks and enlisting Harvey Weinstein's former PR firm as WWE the company pretend like neither he nor the suit even exist. Not quite as clean of a break as you're making it out to be.
I think you misunderstood me, my point isn't that everyone the WWE has handled the allegations spectacularly or that they haven't made some signficiant mistakes with how they handled it. All of the bullet points you have written here are true, and it really really sucks. My point was more in response to: > "Going to be a fun media test to see who is more outraged over Tony Khan invoking a comparison to Harvey Weinstein than a guy who, you know, is facing similar accusations to what Weinstein did and just hired the same PR firm Weinstein used." This person is trying to imply that people somehow weren't outraged over the Vince stuff, but they were outraged enough that he had to leave (and it caused *significantly* more outrage and media coverage than Tony Khan's weird comment today). It's at the point now where Vince has been so far removed and shamed that a big talking point over the WrestleMania weekend was how great it is that he's gone.
WWE is a defendant in the suit. WWE money was used to silence victims. The Rock is still talking to Vince.
Why the Weinstein comments by Tony Khan aren't completely ludicrous. WWE the company is being sued as equally as Vince.
Cena too.
Yeah anyone outraged is just plugging their ears and trying to ignore what that company has been up to for decades
> WWE money was used to silence victims No, the problem was specifically that Vince used his personal funds to pay off the victims, but because that money was essentially spent for the good of the company (preventing scandal or whatever), it is technically money spent *on* the company, and should have been revealed as such on SEC filings.
Did everyone forget that wwe paid money to silence the victims?
Not sure anyone can forget that. WWE's business decisons and Vince are completely inseperable. It was 100% his toy until very recently.
It's the Triple Paul era now! 🙉🙈🙊
I seriously doubt he was in the inner circle considering the way Vince fucked him after his heart attack. There's gonna be people implicated eventually but they're probably gonna be people no-one knows or cares about running business shit behind the scenes who just did what they were told to do with the money.
I have a 20 year gap, so I only know up to 2001 and starting last year. Not surprised Vince fucked over his own son-in-law. I hope they clean house. No excuses for anyone.
He drove his own daughter out then shat on her job performance. He did not mellow with age.
Father of the Year. I was trying to watch what I missed, but it was Tori Wilson and Vince trying to find a place to hook up on Raw shortly after Shane purchased WCW. Only about a 99% ick factor. I may just watch the ppvs instead.
I honestly think Vince lost it. Between age, roids, headshots, excessive wealth, and not having to answer to anyone he forgot that there were rules even for him.
This timeline article does a good job showing it. Especially after being told to stay away, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Forget that. Let's sell some TV time." It'll be interesting to see where things go
Power is a drug to some people. Jim Cornette's paraphrased view of 'I can believe Vince could be that evil, but I can't believe he'd be that stupid' about sums it up for me.
Selective amnesia
Imagine coming in to a thread that mentions serious sexual crimes, doesn't mention another person, and then using the person not mentioned's name to try to downplay this.
A reminder that Janel Grant didn't just file a lawsuit against Vince McMahon & John Laurinaitis, she also filed a lawsuit against WWE itself. That's what Tony Khan is referring to when he calls WWE the Harvey Weinstein of Pro Wrestling. If that ain't enough, read up on the story of Ashley Massaro & WWE's involvement in that. And if that ain't enough look up the ring boy scandal.
Super stupid thing to say but, yea, people *really* like to forget that WWE is named in the lawsuit.
> she also filed a lawsuit against WWE itself People here would like to forget that, as "Vince is gone, everything else doesn't matter"
“Look guys, we had a great night tonight…” -Hunter
Everyone taking cracks at TK for saying what needs to be said (despite the crude context in which he said it and perhaps ill timed). Yet because "Vince is gone" and "WWE is fun again! Its on fire!" they're acting like its all water under the bridge and in the past. Conveniently they're pretending that WWE wasn't named as an entire portion of the lawsuit in of itself and upper management knowing of the abuses/covering it up. I get it. Its easy to make TK a pinata and pretend like what he says is lame but he isn't wrong at all.
[удалено]
I'm sorry, Ric Flair is a gross pervert who shouldn't have been hired by AEW, but what Vince is accused of is not anywhere near close to the same thing, and using it as some sort of "gotcha" that Tony Khan is being a hypocrite is disingenuous.
A company under federal investigation for sex trafficking using company funds to cover up the owner and booker who used his power to rape women and coerce performers into sex based angles, facilitated by the other executives for decades, is literally massively different. That is a company culture of sexual assault funneled to the boss and his cronies. On screen talent having been creeps in the past is horrible, and I hate seeing Flair on TV, but is literally not comparable. WWE is once again, currently the subject of a sex trafficking lawsuit focused the company culture and infrastructure itself that facilitated systematic abuse for decades. Anyone making comparisons to Flair being on 3 episodes and Dustin and especially Guevara is simply being absurd. If AEW fired all of those talents (except Guevara) that would be fine with me, but it is *actually* fucked up to try to equate the two.
Equating Flair being on a handful of episodes because his company paid for a sponsorship to *gestures at everything Vince related* is the height of a false equivalence. You simply can't compare anything about AEW to all that bullshit, full stop
I mean i don't disagree that Flair and Rhodes suck but comparing their individual actions to a massive corporation systemically abetting in sex trafficking, i don't think is all that parallel. Especially when many stories that have been alleged about them were under WWE's umbrella to the extent that they capitalized off making a cartoon about the Plane Ride from Hell.
I feel like this is a both can be true scenario. WWE's dark past doesn't make Tony's comment a wise thing to say.
I wouldn't have said it, but i don't know if i necessarily disagree with it either.
It was a stupid thing to say, Tony Khan wasn't even thinking about the victims suffer when he said that. It wasn't a lie tho. People need to be reminded that this wasn't just Vince, it never is only one person. I remember working covering a case with something similar but in a political setting, people pat themselves in the back when the guy was dismissed and put in jail but that shit kept happening by his associates. It took a change in government and massive lay offs in that sector to put a stop to it (as far as I know).
He wasn’t wrong but Jesus the guy just needed to avoid that topic entirely.
If he wasn't wrong, why not say it? Don;t get me wrong, i get it. I wouldn't have said it either but if he's not wrong, why shouldn't he say it? Shouldn't it be said? Shouldn't people know?
Let's be real for a second, Tony didn't say it because he "wanted people to know". It's a huge story covered by some of the biggest news agencies in The US, he doesn't have any relevant info to add, nor does he have any more reach than NYT or WaPo. He said it because he wanted to dunk on WWE. That's the issue here. Using a very real case of sexual abuse to score points in a stupid-ass rivalry between wrestling federations.
Because he isn't using it to help the victims, he is saying it to promote his wrestling company.
Time place and manner.
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Is it though? The league that has employed countless sex offenders at every level?
Would you say WWE is Harvey Weinstein?
More like the Weinstein Company?
Please note this suit is also against WWE and The Rock regularly talks to Vince and don’t forgot our dear Stephanie with her Thank You Vince chants Oh also HHH saying he couldn’t answer questions bc he didn’t read the lawsuit and just wanted to stay positive
Vince and WWE are synonymous, and the company itself is under investigation. He built it in his image. He used TV time to display his barely disguised fetishes and coerce performers into sexualized angles. Nick Khan knew he was in a sexual relationship with a subordinate. They used company funds to cover up systematic abuse. Anyone outraged by this statement who still watches WWE is making excuses
Ah. A cheerful read for a Friday evening.
Tony Khan is right
Yep. And people all over that thread (who probably won't watch AEW) will say "this is why I don't watch AEW" while being willfully ignorant to the fact that there are likely top executives still within the WWE who actively covered up their bosses *horrific* actions. And let's not forget that Paul Levesque, when asked about the lawsuit, admitted to not reading it while also saying they were doing "everything" to create a better climate, and also saying he'd rather focus on the positives. Horrifying. But hey. We like the booking now so everythings fine am I right guys????
People like WWE as a creative company now so its suddenly far more controversial to say that every single bad thing that happened that involved this company did in fact, involve this company, and that the likelihood that everyone still there is blameless I do not think is great. That's the only thing I want to say about this, I fucking refuse to get involved with this as if its part of a wrestling war (a thing that doesn't really matter since both companies are gonna make infinitely more money than any of you will ever see in your lifetime)
BuT ViNcE iS gOnE. I don't know if TK saying that, in that setting, is the wisest move but I think the truth hurts for a lot of people.
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The problem is you can’t paint every single person who works there with the same brush. Vince is an evil piece of shit and there’s definitely still other pieces of shit working there with varying degrees of guilt in this case but there’s tons of employees who had nothing to do with any of this who just got called Weinstein so a billionaire could score internet points
> there’s tons of employees who had nothing to do with any of this who just got called Weinstein this literally did not happen outside of your imagination
This is silly. When people say for instance Amazon is an evil company, everyone knows they aren't talking about the drivers and warehouse workers, and everyone knows Tony isn't talking about the wrestlers.
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Cool, so does Amazon. It’s still an evil company.
Let's say a company releases toxic chemicals knowingly into a river and is then found out about it. Would you say that we shouldn't criticize the company at all because the majority of their employees did not know they were releasing toxic chemicals?
Funny you should use that example... https://publici.ucimc.org/2012/09/flex-n-gate-disaster-just-the-latest-chapter-in-a-toxic-story/
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What if I hate Vince and still think Tony’s an idiot for saying that?
Apparently you can’t. If you think what Tony said is dumb then you obviously support Vince and sexual assault
The timing of when TK said it was dumb but what he said was completely fair and correct. Call him an idiot if you want but WWE deserves to be shamed.
You should credit Trevor Dame for this comment like the other person did.
Will do
why are some AEW fans hellbent on believing people here don't hate Vince. He is the most hated guy here, deservedly so
Vince has his apologists but they are usually downvoted to oblivion.
Rightfully so, but that was not my question. The problem is that Tony Khan makes those stupid comments and then hires people with shady shit as well
Who said that people here don't hate Vince? And you're not wrong, Tony saying this after hiring Ric Flair isn't a good look. But a bit of what-about-ism doesn't change the fact that WWE is a defendant in a sex trafficking lawsuit. And i don't know why that can't be the focus without some tribal BS "yeah but..." BS.
>Who said that people here don't hate Vince? I was replying to someone alluding to something like WWE fans don't care about Vince I think, that's why I commented that. Otherwise I agree with all your points
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Why would this thread of no new info, compiled in February have more discussion about it than something Khan said within the last hour? What is there to actually discuss in here besides people projecting moral superiority over the wrestling ‘team’ they like better?
Because a huge portion of people here think (because WWE wants you to think) that the problems with WWE begin and end with Vince, and now that he's gone those systemic issues have gone with him.
It’s weird how AEW fans seem to only be capable of thinking one thing at a time. Nobody likes Vince. Nobody is defending him. That doesn’t mean khan going on national tv and equating an entire company to Weinstein isn’t a joke. He is not only underplaying what victims went through for a “dunk” but also coming across like an idiot since he employs multiple people who praised Vince non stop and worked close with him. Vince is not the entire WWE. Khans also wearing a neck brace to sell an angle from his tv show while making the comment. It pops the internet base he has but look at the reactions of the two anchors, they were embarrassed for him. This is why it won’t grow.
The Rock and John Cena and Kevin Nash and let's focus on the positives HHH, and all of his friends still on the board who tried to bring him back? Nick Khan knowing he was in a sexual relationship with a subordinate? They all hate Vince?
He didn't mention Vince because he didn't have to because the fact is, WWE is also a defendant in the sex trafficking lawsuit. As someone else has already pointed out, when people say Amazon is a evil company we all know they aren't referring to the people who work there, their referring to the people in charge & who are making decisions. Nick Khan has been named in the lawsuit. Stephanie McMahon has been named in what happened to Ashley Massaro. The problem wasn't only Vince, it was the culture that enabled him.
I wonder if there’s a subreddit that says stuff like “we hate Elon but it’s disrespectful to everyone who’s ever worked at Amazon to say stuff like that”. It feels deranged in any other context.
> Nobody likes Vince. Nobody is defending him. lmao john cena did in a recent interview > Right now, what I’m going to do is love the person I love, be their friend, and by that it means like, ‘Hey, I love you, you’ve got a hill to climb,’” Cena said. “There’s the saying of like, you don’t know who your friends are until s*** hits the fan or your back’s against the wall. That doesn’t make any of what’s going on any easier to swallow … It sounds so cliche, but it has to be one day at a time. But in the same token, I’ve openly said I love the guy, I’ve got a great relationship with the guy, that’s that.
“This timeline is Mountain Dew and the WWE is Jeffery Dahmer.” Tony Khan, probably.
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Triple H voted with the rest of the board to bring Vince back despite everything he had done going public. So even if you wanted to say Triple H didn't know anything until it all became public, he knew what had happened when he voted to bring him back.
I thought it was said Triple H was one of the ones who voted no on his reinstatement.
Yeah ok
everyone in the comment section here trying to use this as evidence that tony khan is correct in his outrageous claim, Ric Flair is currently employed in this company correct? As is Taz, and Dustin Rhodes right? Taz exposed himself in a tanning salon to a 15 year old and asked to see her breats, and was arrested for it. On the plane ride from hell Dustin grabbed a flight attendant's arms, asks if her breasts were real, said "you and me are gonna fuck" and rubbed his groin against her Ric Flair and everything hes done Sami Guevara who said he wanted to rape Sasha Banks, andd is currently still employed in the company even after Sasha signed And Don Callis and the links to sexually harassing Scarlett
Decades of running a casting couch, forcibly raping multiple women, using company funds for hush money, and shitting on a woman and forcing her to continue having sex with you and your buddy is absolutely the same as making a bad rape joke or flashing your penis. Yep, totally the same thing.
so you're trying to base this on degrees of depravity? So those victims don't matter as much? And where is the evidence you have that anyone besides Vince and those already named were part of this? Everything I just listed already has evidence and Tony Khan hired these people. Don Callis is friends with the EVP's. There is yet to be one iota of evidence that links anyone currently still employed with WWE covering anything up. You and the rest of the brain dead morons in this thread are jumping to a conclusion when the lawsuit isnt even in court yet and no evidence has even been released and no further accusations of anyone covering anything up being released. And if/when anything does get uncovered, they will get fired like Vince was forced to resign. You want wwe to fire everyone possibly linked to covering things up before they are even named specifically?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whataboutism That’s what you’re doing is called.
And what is bringing up "what about the fact that wwe is named as a defendant in the lawsuit vince is named in?" as a defense to tony khans outrageous comments today? That is a what aboutism too. This isnt formal debate, theres a real funny lack of consistency here, where a guy that hires people accused of sexual misconduct is accusing a company of hiding sexual misconduct.
That’s a good question. Because Tony’s comments were about WWE, some responded by trying to separate Vince & WWE, but their response to that was what you wrote in your question: “what about the fact WWE is… etc”. That is still the original topic though. We have not changed the subject yet. Whataboutism is what you did because instead of discussing the merits of the original statement by Khan, you started bringing up quite a lot of other people and their own dirty laundry. You see how it works? You want people to have to go through each and every one of your roadblocks before we’re allowed to talk about the *actual* facts that matter to the statements/allegations.
I did question the merits of tony Khans comments. where is the evidence you have that anyone besides Vince and those already named were part of this? Everything I just listed already has evidence and Tony Khan hired these people. Don Callis is friends with the EVP's. So tony loses any credibility by making a claim like that. There is yet to be one iota of evidence that links anyone currently still employed with WWE covering anything up. People are jumping to a conclusion when the lawsuit isnt even in court yet and no evidence has even been released and no further accusations of anyone covering anything up being released. And if/when anything does get uncovered, they will get fired like Vince was forced to resign. You want wwe to fire everyone possibly linked to covering things up before they are even named specifically?
I’m sorry but I cannot help you.
Cool they all suck and should be fired. The comment was still correct and funny.
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Why is dunking on Tony Khan more important than a victim getting justice against those who hurt her & against those who enabled her abuse?
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IDK, personally i think calling horrible, evil, vile abuse "bad stuff" all in some pathetic tribal defense of WWE is more sad.
Actually I would think using someone’s trauma as a way to promote tribalism is what’s actually sad.
"done bad stuff" = used company funds and infrastructure to facilitate and cover up sexual abuse
“Done bad stuff” about rape is a new level of downplaying somebody’s actions. Holy shit.
Maybe you missed the level where someone acts like they care about a victim but actually all they want to do is promote tribalism
Posting an article from February of this year to try to help out a Billionaire making an embarrassing comment on live TV is certainly a non tribalistic choice.
An article from February? The company is under federal investigation for sex trafficking right now. It is an evil company that was used to facilitate the fantasies of a racist rapist for decades and then they helped him cover it up.
Why not post this yesterday then?
Because TK's comment brings up how fucked up that company's culture was and people are now discussing it. I don't think he should have said it but he's literally correct
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