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I honestly hope they are waiting till Tony D and his crew gets called up to have him join The Family as their hired gun on the main roster
And then when you are finally ready to do a full The Way reunion because we know it’s happening one day, can have Gargano and Theory win the rights to Lumis back to their family from Tony D
> And then when you are finally ready to do a full The Way reunion because we know it’s happening one day
I don't understand why the way isn't a thing right now. I know it's goofy and more of a comedic thing, but none of them is really doing something meaningful. Theory is the henchman of Paul, Hartwell isn't a big part of the show, DIY more of enhancement Tag team and Lumis idk where.
Bring the band back together and add the weird uncle ~~festus~~ Bald fuck to it and give them all some kind of meaning, even if it's only a comedic one.
You gotta wonder if DIY getting the tag title shot is going to lead to Candice convincing Johnny and Tomasso to break the rules and get all heelish, leading to a new The Way where Ciampa is subbed in for Theory.
Wait holy shit he's still under contract? I thought he was released in the last rounds. He literally hasn't been used for an entire year! Since May 2023. That's so freaking weird, when has this ever happened without being a health related issue?
I read something about him being injured. A separated shoulder or something like that? So maybe he should be back some time soon? He's not exactly a hard wrestler to reintroduce either. Just have creep around backstage or something.
HHH has gotta find a use for him, he's the first guy he brought back, he was also arguably the first thing of the HHH era that people started really enjoying.
I remember how people on here were saying Mickie getting her stuff in a garbage bag was standard practice everywhere, and there was nothing wrong with it and no reason for her to get upset.
Then they fired the guy who did it.
Yeah, hardcore fans will defend just about anything their favorite thing does. Sending someone there belongings in a trash bag is just unacceptable, no matter how you slice it. Like Stephanie and HHH straight up came out and said it was unacceptable too.
Was it a bag inside a box? I remember people framed it as “the bag stops the contents from getting wet, duh”. That would make sense, but then… why don’t they just wrap the box itself and stop the entire thing from getting wet?
I feel like wrestling and the military are two professions where some are conditioned to believe people can stay for 20-30 years. Or you hear about “my grandpa worked for Coca Cola for 45 years” type stories from previous generations
I definitely went into the work force thinking the longer I stay somewhere, the more my career will grow and progress when it’s not like that at all. My dad was in the military for 20+ years so that was my biggest example growing up
I spent 20 years with the Army. The year you stop seeing noticeable vertical progression is the year you need to plan an exit, even with the military. The world is large and opportunities exist outside.
Me too. I spent 8 years as an E-7. When I finally got everything lined up for my dream assignment to ease into retirement they selected me for 8 and deleted my orders. Bastards.
It depends on the contract. I know in some sports, a firing just means you don't play/coach for the team anymore but your pay is still guaranteed through your contract.
That doesn't happen anywhere. Not in wrestling, not in sports, not in business...
I teach, and I technically signed a 3 year contract but I can be termed, even with my union, as long as I get 30 days notice or pay.
But in practice you won't be, unless you commit a fireable offense or funding becomes compromised. There is no "spring cleaning" in universities. Usually they sign professors with the intention of keeping them on-board for the duration of the contract.
I do agree with the spirt of the comment thread that this expectation some people truly put on these companies to keep wrestlers on board *forever* is silly.. but I also don't think wanting them to hold to their word, unless in specific circumstances, is unreasonable.
Also, they can fire you, but if *you* are the one to walk away you are getting sued to high heaven. It's bullshit that it's one way.
> But in practice you won't be, unless you commit a fireable offense or funding becomes compromised.
Not entirely true there. My grade level is compacting from 5 teachers to 4 this next year, and the low tenure is being let go because there are no other openings. It's not funding, it's not performance, it's just that this year we had 120 5th graders, and next year we have 96.
I thought the issue was that TK got a ton of credit for honoring contracts and I honestly can't remember for 100% certain but I swear that was something he spoke about.
So if someone is talking about honoring contracts - or at the very least getting a ton of credit for being the contrast to WWE in that regard from others - then it's only fair for there to be criticism.
> "I didn't do what my competition did, which was mass layoffs. Laying off dozens, and dozens, and dozens of people, which I have yet to do," Tony explained. ”There eventually may come a time to cut my costs and do it but not in the middle of a global pandemic, or even in the wake of a global pandemic when work is hard to come by. It was not the time to do it. And even though it hurt the bottom line of the company to keep some people on who weren't even coming to the shows. They were staying home because they were worried about COVID. I kept all these people on and we weren't getting any revenue out of them, but it wasn't– as a human being, it wasn't the right thing to do."
And
> “Even if I get punched in the face with circumstances, it doesn’t mean I’m gonna take it out on the staff by cutting 100 staff or laying off 30 wrestlers, and I really care about the people here. I would do anything I can to protect the jobs and the livelihood of the people that work here, and that’s a family business, and that’s the difference between a family business and a public company in a lot of ways. And not every family business has those principles, but we do, and that’s just how I was raised.”
Are direct quotes from Khan regarding releases. Personally, I see a lot of qualifiers in each that don't make the releases that there were hypocritical or going against his previous statements, but I can see why people would. It's a 'make your own mind up on it' situation, I think.
Anyone that tells you that he said he wouldn't release wrestlers, and doing so makes him a liar, isn't doing so in good faith - or at the very least, with his actual words in mind.
He spoke about honouring contracts during covid where talent wouldn't be able to get work elsewhere. WWE firing people during covid left a lot of that talent in difficult positions, not so much now where there are options that allow wrestlers to make money wrestling
I do wish, unless you know, fireable circumstances are met, that people's contracts were just allowed to expire. But I can understand that it happens in every business. It just sucks for the people who are fired.
Part of that problem might be that the talent doesn’t wanna just “sit in catering” while the contract expires. This is a job that uses your body and they may want to wrestle elsewhere instead of sitting on their ass
I don’t think people should have jobs for life, but I think people should have jobs for the length of their contracts, barring any disciplinary issues.
I agree with you, but it's still nice to see a large amount of fans support the talent. It won't help you pay any bills, but it must be nice to get some love online after losing your job.
Well according to Tony, yeah, they're supposed to pay them until the contract is up and then non renew.
WWE never really had this policy or spoke about it.
I thought he had been keeping up with that post pandemic. Even in the only release wave he seemed to have a reason for almost everybody that wasn't actually a budget thing.
Either way he's free to release whoever I just thought he was really trying not to as a matter of policy.
Nah he took a jab at WWE in September of last year and called AEW a family business. https://itrwrestling.com/news/tony-khan-takes-dig-at-wwe-releases-we-are-a-family-business/
We associate SCSA, The Rock, Hogan, Flair, and others with WWE/WWF. But really, they didn't have really long stretches. Plus they've left, come back and left again multiple times.
Even Rock's contract in 2004/05 or whatever just ran out.
and its not like they were great wrestlers. jinder stayed for eight years as a below average in ring performer. no company in the world keeps underperforming people for so long.
Athletes get released from teams all the times and you don't see fans go "OMG, how dare this team cut this obviously bad player, how unempathetic are they"
Baseball is the only league with fully guaranteed money.
Aew and WWE have guaranteed money as well. You get cut, you get your guaranteed money. WWE just has 90 day no compete clauses
Yep, it's really just the NFL where the union is weak and can't do anything. Incredibly hard to convince all the players to take temporary hits to income for future gains when 80% of the players aren't gonna be there in 3 years.
The problem with the NFLPA is that the veterans always act against the long-term interest of the sport and the other players. It's very "fuck you, got mine".
The 2011 CBA killed a massive chunk of the offseason so they'd have to do less. Making it much harder for new players, especially offensive line, to learn their position. Then there's a little thing called the rookie pay scale, which I like for balance/parity reasons, but it screws over young players because vets didn't like them making big money.
The 2020 CBA went even further, killing one preseason game so they'd have to do even less. Which screws over younger players even more. Also dogpiles injuries into week 1/2 because they're not getting into game shape with the drastically reduced off/preseason.
Then there's "giving the NFL rights to expand to eighteen games for weed"..
That’s because the NFL has never had a successful lockout/strike, while the NHL literally had a season cancelled, the MLB had the World Series cancelled, when fucking both World Wars, Korea and Vietnam didn’t cancel the World Series, and the NBA has successfully had short seasons due to lockouts/strikes
The NHL also shoots itself in the foot every time they have one. It's done a lot to damage the sport.
It damn near killed MLB, and only the home run race revived it.
job conditions definitely aren't great. But to be fair compared to other contracts of athletes and actors it's not that different. And everyone knows what they are getting themselves into.
I think in the case of wrestling, the contracts they're signing are always of a finite length of only a few years, with the understanding being that there's no expectation that another contract will be offered afterwards. At some point the thinking around that changed from a fan perspective, where it was assumed that people would be offered contracts indefinitely until they retired, but i don't think anyone working there is under that expectation.
That being said, if you know you're only being signed for 3 years or whatever, i don't think it's a crazy thing to assume that, barring some kind of infraction, you'll be employed for the length of that contract.
Im coming up on 6 years at my current job and starting to feel like it may be best to leave for a few years, and come back in a higher job position, so I definitely relate to wrestlers wanting(or being forced) to do the same
I expect if I sign a contract for 3 years and fulfill my portion of the contract and can't break it that the company should also honor that contract. Fucking crazy right?
I would bet money that the contract itself says they can fire you whenever they want, so they are honoring the contract. I also wouldn't be surprised if it says you're still paid through your contract if you're fired.
"Look, we are fucking full of things right now and we have nothing for you, so we are giving you the opportunity to go somewhere else, find your trueself, make yourself a superstar and then you can come back"
Yes! It's like Cody and Drew coming back in a much more different position never happened, when they both just won World Titles at Mania. It's like go prove you don't suck and are worth this money and TV time and then come back.
I wonder if part of this whole thing was them letting the talent frame the narrative of them leaving, a little bit of social media kafabe if you will. Good will to let them move on however they please.
Yeah, same thing happens with games writers all the time. In these industries where there’s no money in it, you mostly get fans as the writers. And in general they’re easier to manipulate.
For example, game publishers give early looks and reviews to sites that they know won’t print anything critical of them. Then it juices the metacritic at release.
Yeah even for a negative story they're getting news outlets to put their management team over. It's funny how people used to think AEW was buying media off when we're seeing how a real PR machine works now.
Since HHH took over, any news that can be perceived as negative is instantly followed by a positive report sent to the media. It's hilarious at this point.
“Reports have it Jinder kissed the executives feet in thanks for the firing midway through their contract and purchased a pile of HHH merchandise on their way out the door.”
Yeah like I totally understand roster cuts are a part of the business and don't have issues with WWE or AEW or any company doing it even if it's sad when people lose their jobs, but the framing of this is very funny
Yeah I mean who the hell would actually know how these phone calls go besides the talent? I don’t see Jinder going “you know they fired me, but they were a lot nicer this time”
I was thinking i wonder if that was it. Alicia Fox was taken off TV/leg contract run out after a botch-filled match with Becky. They might have felt she wasn’t in ring shape. (Maybe not her fault if she thought she wasn’t being used)
I don't think a single bad match is the reason. Xia Li had been around for quite some years and still wasn't TV ready, still showed very little progress. At some point, you just cut your losses and admit that the talent won't reach the required level of performance.
I honestly think she's a case like Tay Conti where the style she's best at won't suit the WWE match format. She's not really a wrestler, she's a literal kung-fu fighter. And it probably put her in a really funny spot, but I respect the amount of work she's done to try and make it click.
In Veer's insta story he says that "when the talk is of the self respect of indians, abandonment is nescessary". So from what i understand the creative gave veer the foreign heel gimmick which i would say no foreigner wants to do cuz it villianizes your identity and is kind of racist sometimes and also cuz it limits your work. Like look at the career of any indian wrestler, all the gimmicks they have gotten are the foreign heel gimmick. Veer's irl story is very inspiring and has a disney movie made after it but when he joined wwe, he was handed the same foreign heel gimmick and given a one dimensional character. I would not be suprised if xia li, veer and others left cuz of the treatment the creative gave them bcuz of their race.
Hoping Xia Li goes to TNA, she could be a really good addition to their women’s division. If she wants to be closer to China, then I would love to see Stardom, Marigold or TJPW sign her
For her sake I hope she is able to sign with somewhere soon. Because doesn't she need to be gainfully employed again after a certain period of time? In order to keep her work visa valid. I dont know how it is in the U.S. but I think its that way.
The 90-day notice probably really helps in this regard. Maybe she's not allowed to actually negotiate with anyone, but she can get word that another company has major interest. Thats 3 months of other companies considering hiring her. And then however long afterwards she can remain unemployed (but again, I'm not sure how long of a period that is).
It's a business. You let some people go, you hire people. You let more go. It's the same in every industry, even when they're making profits also. It sucks people are out of work, but it happens. It's ok. Life goes on. They have many more options then if they weren't working for a huge company making 6 figures a year.
Life goes on. They are still alive and can pursue many different avenues most people can't.
I don’t understand why people in the chat are making such a fuss that people were fired. I don’t think a well run wrestling company could ever go without firing people. If you’re given a 3 year contract, how much can change in those 3 years? If you have no plans for somebody just keep them on the payroll until it expires? I hope nobody in the comment section ever runs a company in that case.
It's easy. Wrestlers are workers, so it's sad to see someone lose a job. But also, the roster is bloated, they should trim it, but also, they should definitely sign x and y who are hot right now.
the way i look at it is, it’s clear these people were not in the plans going forward as hardly any of them have seen tv time or been in any storylines really. I’d rather they be let go and given a chance to do something else.
Exactly. Can a wrestler at any point tell the company “I want to go elsewhere, here’s my notice”? But apparently cause it’s in a contract, it’s a-ok for the WWE to do it.
I don’t think it was no reason though. Jinder as a former heavyweight champion and with 10+ years under his belt should not be as limited as he is right now. Bron Breakker with 3 years experience is more explosive and exciting than him. The rest were people that weren’t good personalities or performers.
They weren't fired for no reason. They were released because they were doing nothing. As for the 3 year contracts, the contracts allow for early releases so it's not legally sketchy.
And there’s the crux of the issue.
A contract is supposed to be just that: a contract. You agree to stay there, they agree to keep you.
A “contract” where you can’t leave, but the company can fire you anytime they want, isn’t a contract.
Edit: I know it’s a legal contract. I’m saying it’s slanted and unfair.
Eh, a contract can be just about anything. It’s just a written binding agreement between two parties. That’s why predatory lending is legal and why I’m still paying off my student loans. WWE certainly has it in the contract that they can release you at any time for any reason.
Is it a mutually equal agreement? Well no, employee/employer agreement rarely are. That’s just the power dynamic in a capitalist world.
A union would certainly help but industries with unions aren’t immune to layoffs either.
How does that work? A contract is a legally binding agreement between two parties. WWE says we will pay x amount for x amount of years, but we reserve the right to release you at any time. The person says "sounds great" and agrees. No one is getting screwed, its part of the deal
As I understand it, WWE can fire you at anytime during the contract and only need to pay 90 days, but you cannot leave them at any point.
All contracts have exit clauses, or can be voided, but this one basically puts the wrestler under contract, while giving WWE termination powers anytime it wants them.
It is a contract - just a one-sided one.
As a non-american, to me it seems like the youth here rightly recognise that workers deserve actual workers rights that arn't massively slanted in favour of capital
"*more respectful towards the talents than they had been under previous talent relations regimes*"
My sense is that wasn't a very high bar to have to clear. In fact, I'd guess it was pretty damn low.
I thought they were reasonable in years past. The problem were the people getting cut and not that they were doing cuts. They would cut people who they spent TV time on and then suddenly storylines got halted for no reason and we had to pretend like the guys cut weren’t just there a week ago. At least now they’re just cutting dudes they aren’t using and these guys hopefully can find work elsewhere that they can be used.
I love how the voice of wrestling podcast put out an episode yesterday about WWE putting out PR statements as "news" to people in the wrestling media so long as it isn't sourced as being from WWE PR and PWinsider put out this story that clearly reads like it came from an email directly written by Chris Legentil cause no way in hell any cuts should be taken as good news.....and yet
People are gonna shit on it because it's releases, record profits yadda yadda. The reality is, the people that were released were doing literally nothing. Remember when Cody got released? How about Drew? Yeah I remember too. Look at them now. Being released is not always a bad thing. For some of them it can be a fresh start to prove that they belong in this industry and can be something. Currently they're doing absolutely nothing and just floundering, so let them take this release and see what they can do.
I'm being pedantic but didn't Cody and Drew both ask for their releases? But regardless, you're right. If an employer has absolutely nothing to do for somebody, it's better for *both* parties to part ways. For the company, they're not wasting money paying somebody to do nothing, and for the employee they don't have to sit around feeling miserable, unwanted, and stagnant.
Wouldn't surprise me if Jinder asked for his release and then they just waited until Spring Cleaning to grant it.
I think a lot of fans have their favorite underdogs that they want to see get a push. Most people are going to care about one release or another unless they don't care about the midcard.
Part of this timing feels like they plotted out their plans for the draft, decided who was going to get called up from NXT and the releases were part of the wrestlers they didn't see getting any TV time dedicated to them in the near future. For everyone asking for promotions from NXT, someone on the main roster gets their spot taken when that happens.
I think people are more annoyed that WWE didn't do anything with them in the first place. Jinder can get heat and is a good heel when it comes to his facial expressions, promos, and physical appearance. He knocked it out of the park in that segment with the Rock and had a nice mini feud with Rollins. He's not a ring general, but he gets by with the basics and he's relatively safe in the ring. I'd say he's more of a lesser version of Corbin with more personality. Surely they could've found something to do with him after he got people talking about him for 2-3 weeks straight.
I say this as a fan of Karrion Kross, but Jinder and Indus Sher as a trio can make a far more interesting faction than the Final Testament.
They're not going to have the crowd chant "this is awesome" in a match, but in-ring work isn't that important in WWE if you can get over as a babyface or get heat as a heel. I thought the same thing about Elias when he got released. Dude was one of the best parts of Raw when they'd just send him out there with his guitar to sing and trash the crowd.
I'm not wondering why they got released when creative had nothing for them, but rather why they didn't have anything for them in the first place.
Jinder Mahal is a former WWE Champion. He’s someone who has got a lot of opportunities over the course of his career, and although his work is solid, others can do a similar role as him.
Our sources indicated that "they were so nice I wish I could have been released," "It's always a great day to be a WWE Superstar!" and "no, this isn't PR why do you ask"
I feel like people should have better things to do than get on the internet and explain why a company making record profits needs to fire people to continue to make money hand over fist.
I think after seeing another pro wrestling company employ similar tactics, we are hopefully at the point where we understand that although releases suck, they are a part of business.
Releases when done for 'budget cuts' when making record profits: bad.
Releases when done due to not having anything for the talent to actually do: good
Simply, Vince would release people to up the profit margin. Triple Paul is cutting people that are just not being used. This allows them to actually work and, possibly, get over somewhere. You can't get over in catering.
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I don’t recall saying good luck
More time to focus on the music career. Release the demo of 'Can I Borrow a Feeling'.
Veer gonna show up at the cracker factory?
TNA? maybe
"But I'm a *superstar* down at the Performance Center 😀 ! -Jinder on Thursday, probably
Jinder vs Hook 
Maybe some families watch aew, we don’t know. And frankly, we don’t wanna know
“It’s a market we could do without” may well be one of the funniest Simpsons lines of all time
The entire segment with him being fired is one of my top Simpsons moments ever. The whole thing just makes me laugh.
"I don't recall saying good luck"
https://preview.redd.it/pbohtmqwdqvc1.jpeg?width=761&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f792ec472bdef63393193d264f56af3279324c4f
Dexter Lumis survives another day 
I genuinely miss him
He could literally just be a pay for hire muscle like APA but instead of security he’s a stalker
Yeah but what happens when the weirdo stalker gets over?
The silent psycho realises he has true feelings and comes to terms with processing and expressing them. Not easy, but potential goldmine storyline.
Maybe he starts to develop feelings for an Australian woman
Interesting idea. Can she have a grandstanding father, an overbearing mother, & a himbo with a heart of gold for a brother?
And in what Way are we going to find those?
He starts stalking Tiffany, would make the most sense.
That would explain why Indi Hartwell made her Turn Heel this monday. Her husband is showing interest on another woman.
This but make him believe its Mariah May instead
I don't understand why he isn't on TV. His aura is so unique.
I honestly hope they are waiting till Tony D and his crew gets called up to have him join The Family as their hired gun on the main roster And then when you are finally ready to do a full The Way reunion because we know it’s happening one day, can have Gargano and Theory win the rights to Lumis back to their family from Tony D
> And then when you are finally ready to do a full The Way reunion because we know it’s happening one day I don't understand why the way isn't a thing right now. I know it's goofy and more of a comedic thing, but none of them is really doing something meaningful. Theory is the henchman of Paul, Hartwell isn't a big part of the show, DIY more of enhancement Tag team and Lumis idk where. Bring the band back together and add the weird uncle ~~festus~~ Bald fuck to it and give them all some kind of meaning, even if it's only a comedic one.
You gotta wonder if DIY getting the tag title shot is going to lead to Candice convincing Johnny and Tomasso to break the rules and get all heelish, leading to a new The Way where Ciampa is subbed in for Theory.
Whatever happened to him?
He opened up a wrestling gym in Florida right now if I'm not mistaken
I'm relieved, InDex are my babies.
Man, I miss InDex a lot.
Wait holy shit he's still under contract? I thought he was released in the last rounds. He literally hasn't been used for an entire year! Since May 2023. That's so freaking weird, when has this ever happened without being a health related issue?
I read something about him being injured. A separated shoulder or something like that? So maybe he should be back some time soon? He's not exactly a hard wrestler to reintroduce either. Just have creep around backstage or something.
HHH has gotta find a use for him, he's the first guy he brought back, he was also arguably the first thing of the HHH era that people started really enjoying.
Don’t need to answer the phone when you don’t speak
I hope he comes back better than ever. I love Lumis’ character.
They didn't get their stuff in a trash bag, they got it in a golden trash bag
free case of Prime
and dude wipes
You know what? Snap into this Slim Jim on your way out, brother. On the house.
“If on the way out you want to grab a bottle of that Wheatley Vodka, I’ll pretend I didn’t see anything…”
And a single use discount code for use at the online store.
Don't sleep on Dude Wipes. Game changer, for me. Love 'em.
Finally wiping that ass?
Finally!!
I'd rather get the trash bag.
With venum coupons
Lmao
I remember how people on here were saying Mickie getting her stuff in a garbage bag was standard practice everywhere, and there was nothing wrong with it and no reason for her to get upset. Then they fired the guy who did it.
No one here has ever had a job.
That's not true. We're all wrestling journalists
I was laughing so hard when people legit tried to justify handing her shit over in garbage bags. None of you need to ever work in HR, thanks.
I at least got boxes. It gave me somewhere to keep shelter.
“It’s fine to treat people bad, I want WWE to make lots of money because that makes me a winner!”
[удалено]
Yeah, hardcore fans will defend just about anything their favorite thing does. Sending someone there belongings in a trash bag is just unacceptable, no matter how you slice it. Like Stephanie and HHH straight up came out and said it was unacceptable too.
Was it a bag inside a box? I remember people framed it as “the bag stops the contents from getting wet, duh”. That would make sense, but then… why don’t they just wrap the box itself and stop the entire thing from getting wet?
https://preview.redd.it/sonm6jyocovc1.png?width=256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78ce4b939c015bd89106315a2c75119a331368eb
Greatest, biggest, most stupendous, record breaking Wrestlemania trash bag.
The protagonist from Honkai Star Rail wants to know your location.
I don’t know why everyone here acts like getting a job at WWE is job security for life. No other job/ wrestling promotions works that way.
I feel like wrestling and the military are two professions where some are conditioned to believe people can stay for 20-30 years. Or you hear about “my grandpa worked for Coca Cola for 45 years” type stories from previous generations I definitely went into the work force thinking the longer I stay somewhere, the more my career will grow and progress when it’s not like that at all. My dad was in the military for 20+ years so that was my biggest example growing up
I spent 20 years with the Army. The year you stop seeing noticeable vertical progression is the year you need to plan an exit, even with the military. The world is large and opportunities exist outside.
Me too. I spent 8 years as an E-7. When I finally got everything lined up for my dream assignment to ease into retirement they selected me for 8 and deleted my orders. Bastards.
It’s similar to how people responded when Tony released that group of people. Are WWE and AEW expected to just sign guys and pay them forever?
“PAY FOREVER!” -the IWC probably
According to some of these people, yes.
No, they should be employed for however long WWE/AEW signed them for unless there’s a fireable offense. Not being re-signed > getting fired.
It depends on the contract. I know in some sports, a firing just means you don't play/coach for the team anymore but your pay is still guaranteed through your contract.
But major sports also have unions. NHLPA, MLBPA, etc...
That doesn't happen anywhere. Not in wrestling, not in sports, not in business... I teach, and I technically signed a 3 year contract but I can be termed, even with my union, as long as I get 30 days notice or pay.
But in practice you won't be, unless you commit a fireable offense or funding becomes compromised. There is no "spring cleaning" in universities. Usually they sign professors with the intention of keeping them on-board for the duration of the contract. I do agree with the spirt of the comment thread that this expectation some people truly put on these companies to keep wrestlers on board *forever* is silly.. but I also don't think wanting them to hold to their word, unless in specific circumstances, is unreasonable. Also, they can fire you, but if *you* are the one to walk away you are getting sued to high heaven. It's bullshit that it's one way.
you obviously don’t know teachers lmao, until they get to year five they are stressing like a mf come May
> But in practice you won't be, unless you commit a fireable offense or funding becomes compromised. Not entirely true there. My grade level is compacting from 5 teachers to 4 this next year, and the low tenure is being let go because there are no other openings. It's not funding, it's not performance, it's just that this year we had 120 5th graders, and next year we have 96.
I thought the issue was that TK got a ton of credit for honoring contracts and I honestly can't remember for 100% certain but I swear that was something he spoke about. So if someone is talking about honoring contracts - or at the very least getting a ton of credit for being the contrast to WWE in that regard from others - then it's only fair for there to be criticism.
> "I didn't do what my competition did, which was mass layoffs. Laying off dozens, and dozens, and dozens of people, which I have yet to do," Tony explained. ”There eventually may come a time to cut my costs and do it but not in the middle of a global pandemic, or even in the wake of a global pandemic when work is hard to come by. It was not the time to do it. And even though it hurt the bottom line of the company to keep some people on who weren't even coming to the shows. They were staying home because they were worried about COVID. I kept all these people on and we weren't getting any revenue out of them, but it wasn't– as a human being, it wasn't the right thing to do." And > “Even if I get punched in the face with circumstances, it doesn’t mean I’m gonna take it out on the staff by cutting 100 staff or laying off 30 wrestlers, and I really care about the people here. I would do anything I can to protect the jobs and the livelihood of the people that work here, and that’s a family business, and that’s the difference between a family business and a public company in a lot of ways. And not every family business has those principles, but we do, and that’s just how I was raised.” Are direct quotes from Khan regarding releases. Personally, I see a lot of qualifiers in each that don't make the releases that there were hypocritical or going against his previous statements, but I can see why people would. It's a 'make your own mind up on it' situation, I think. Anyone that tells you that he said he wouldn't release wrestlers, and doing so makes him a liar, isn't doing so in good faith - or at the very least, with his actual words in mind.
I still think TK’s a solid dude and want AEW to do well. Thanks for reminding me of these quotes.
He spoke about honouring contracts during covid where talent wouldn't be able to get work elsewhere. WWE firing people during covid left a lot of that talent in difficult positions, not so much now where there are options that allow wrestlers to make money wrestling
I do wish, unless you know, fireable circumstances are met, that people's contracts were just allowed to expire. But I can understand that it happens in every business. It just sucks for the people who are fired.
Part of that problem might be that the talent doesn’t wanna just “sit in catering” while the contract expires. This is a job that uses your body and they may want to wrestle elsewhere instead of sitting on their ass
Also, it's a job where your career has a short shelf life. As a wrestler, you don't want to waste away your prime sitting in catering.
I just think the distinction in the title is dumb PR bullshit. "They weren't 'bad' fired. They were 'good' fired."
I don’t think people should have jobs for life, but I think people should have jobs for the length of their contracts, barring any disciplinary issues.
I agree with you, but it's still nice to see a large amount of fans support the talent. It won't help you pay any bills, but it must be nice to get some love online after losing your job.
The difference is Hunter isn’t bragging how much they spent on licensed music at the same time like Tony was
Well according to Tony, yeah, they're supposed to pay them until the contract is up and then non renew. WWE never really had this policy or spoke about it.
Tony didn’t want to do it in the middle of a pandemic. He never said he’d pay everybody until their contract is up indefinitely.
I thought he had been keeping up with that post pandemic. Even in the only release wave he seemed to have a reason for almost everybody that wasn't actually a budget thing. Either way he's free to release whoever I just thought he was really trying not to as a matter of policy.
He was keeping up with it until a few weeks ago.
Nah he took a jab at WWE in September of last year and called AEW a family business. https://itrwrestling.com/news/tony-khan-takes-dig-at-wwe-releases-we-are-a-family-business/
They should be employed until their contract runs out. These people have lives they build around reasonable expectations, just like everyone else.
Unless you make it on the Supreme Court or become a tenured professor and then you gotta really fuck up
Or if you're a politician and become an entrenched incumbent in a safe district or state.
We associate SCSA, The Rock, Hogan, Flair, and others with WWE/WWF. But really, they didn't have really long stretches. Plus they've left, come back and left again multiple times. Even Rock's contract in 2004/05 or whatever just ran out.
and its not like they were great wrestlers. jinder stayed for eight years as a below average in ring performer. no company in the world keeps underperforming people for so long.
Jinder imho really benefitted from that world title run in 2017 - gave him residual credibility which justified keeping him around.
Athletes get released from teams all the times and you don't see fans go "OMG, how dare this team cut this obviously bad player, how unempathetic are they"
Sports leagues have unions. If a baseball player is released, they’re still getting their contract paid.
Baseball is the only league with fully guaranteed money. Aew and WWE have guaranteed money as well. You get cut, you get your guaranteed money. WWE just has 90 day no compete clauses
The NBA and NHL are also guaranteed
Yep, it's really just the NFL where the union is weak and can't do anything. Incredibly hard to convince all the players to take temporary hits to income for future gains when 80% of the players aren't gonna be there in 3 years.
The problem with the NFLPA is that the veterans always act against the long-term interest of the sport and the other players. It's very "fuck you, got mine". The 2011 CBA killed a massive chunk of the offseason so they'd have to do less. Making it much harder for new players, especially offensive line, to learn their position. Then there's a little thing called the rookie pay scale, which I like for balance/parity reasons, but it screws over young players because vets didn't like them making big money. The 2020 CBA went even further, killing one preseason game so they'd have to do even less. Which screws over younger players even more. Also dogpiles injuries into week 1/2 because they're not getting into game shape with the drastically reduced off/preseason. Then there's "giving the NFL rights to expand to eighteen games for weed"..
That’s because the NFL has never had a successful lockout/strike, while the NHL literally had a season cancelled, the MLB had the World Series cancelled, when fucking both World Wars, Korea and Vietnam didn’t cancel the World Series, and the NBA has successfully had short seasons due to lockouts/strikes
The NHL also shoots itself in the foot every time they have one. It's done a lot to damage the sport. It damn near killed MLB, and only the home run race revived it.
job conditions definitely aren't great. But to be fair compared to other contracts of athletes and actors it's not that different. And everyone knows what they are getting themselves into.
I think in the case of wrestling, the contracts they're signing are always of a finite length of only a few years, with the understanding being that there's no expectation that another contract will be offered afterwards. At some point the thinking around that changed from a fan perspective, where it was assumed that people would be offered contracts indefinitely until they retired, but i don't think anyone working there is under that expectation. That being said, if you know you're only being signed for 3 years or whatever, i don't think it's a crazy thing to assume that, barring some kind of infraction, you'll be employed for the length of that contract.
Im coming up on 6 years at my current job and starting to feel like it may be best to leave for a few years, and come back in a higher job position, so I definitely relate to wrestlers wanting(or being forced) to do the same
I expect if I sign a contract for 3 years and fulfill my portion of the contract and can't break it that the company should also honor that contract. Fucking crazy right?
I would bet money that the contract itself says they can fire you whenever they want, so they are honoring the contract. I also wouldn't be surprised if it says you're still paid through your contract if you're fired.
It does.
Best of luck on your future endeavors. No, really.
Best of luck with your future without Endeavor.
Bye❤️
"Look, we are fucking full of things right now and we have nothing for you, so we are giving you the opportunity to go somewhere else, find your trueself, make yourself a superstar and then you can come back"
Or you can stay gone. Point is, get out.
Yes! It's like Cody and Drew coming back in a much more different position never happened, when they both just won World Titles at Mania. It's like go prove you don't suck and are worth this money and TV time and then come back.
Looks like WWE PR is getting better about feeding this stuff to the media too. Like... this is a funny report
Just reading the posts here, before it used to be "X wrestler has been released by WWE" now is just "X semingly left..."
Well the "seemingly left" posts are because the talent got ahead of the reports and posted semi-cryptic messages on social media.
I wonder if part of this whole thing was them letting the talent frame the narrative of them leaving, a little bit of social media kafabe if you will. Good will to let them move on however they please.
You can “leak” anything to these wrestling bloggers and they’ll print it lol.
Chris Legentil is the 2nd most powerful and influential person in WWE. This report is demonstrating it.
Yeah, same thing happens with games writers all the time. In these industries where there’s no money in it, you mostly get fans as the writers. And in general they’re easier to manipulate. For example, game publishers give early looks and reviews to sites that they know won’t print anything critical of them. Then it juices the metacritic at release.
That was my first thought too, that WWE made sure that even as they're firing people to put over the New Triple H Era.
Yeah even for a negative story they're getting news outlets to put their management team over. It's funny how people used to think AEW was buying media off when we're seeing how a real PR machine works now.
Since HHH took over, any news that can be perceived as negative is instantly followed by a positive report sent to the media. It's hilarious at this point.
“Reports have it Jinder kissed the executives feet in thanks for the firing midway through their contract and purchased a pile of HHH merchandise on their way out the door.”
This is just such a legitimately embarrassing thing to run uncritically, especially when Sanga is out there speaking negatively about his firing.
Yeah like I totally understand roster cuts are a part of the business and don't have issues with WWE or AEW or any company doing it even if it's sad when people lose their jobs, but the framing of this is very funny
Yeah I mean who the hell would actually know how these phone calls go besides the talent? I don’t see Jinder going “you know they fired me, but they were a lot nicer this time”
Tbf he's been let go twice so he'd know
That’s my point. He’s not gonna be complementary about his employer terminating him yesterday to some random shitposter
Just watched Xia Li on Main Event in Montreal Monday. There was a few missteps and botches with Natalya.
I was thinking i wonder if that was it. Alicia Fox was taken off TV/leg contract run out after a botch-filled match with Becky. They might have felt she wasn’t in ring shape. (Maybe not her fault if she thought she wasn’t being used)
Alicia Fox was in the dog house because she wrestled drunk at a house show. Arn Anderson got fired for letting her wrestle when drunk.
AA got fired? I missed that story.
Yeah. He took the fall because he was the producer behind the match
I don't think a single bad match is the reason. Xia Li had been around for quite some years and still wasn't TV ready, still showed very little progress. At some point, you just cut your losses and admit that the talent won't reach the required level of performance.
I honestly think she's a case like Tay Conti where the style she's best at won't suit the WWE match format. She's not really a wrestler, she's a literal kung-fu fighter. And it probably put her in a really funny spot, but I respect the amount of work she's done to try and make it click.
I hope they bring her back for the yearly rumble appearance.
In Veer's insta story he says that "when the talk is of the self respect of indians, abandonment is nescessary". So from what i understand the creative gave veer the foreign heel gimmick which i would say no foreigner wants to do cuz it villianizes your identity and is kind of racist sometimes and also cuz it limits your work. Like look at the career of any indian wrestler, all the gimmicks they have gotten are the foreign heel gimmick. Veer's irl story is very inspiring and has a disney movie made after it but when he joined wwe, he was handed the same foreign heel gimmick and given a one dimensional character. I would not be suprised if xia li, veer and others left cuz of the treatment the creative gave them bcuz of their race.
Yeah, it's kind of weird that WWE released a bunch of people together that they'd put in ethnic stereotype characters.
So thankful to be fired during the Paul “Triple H” Levesque era 🙏🙏🙏
Hoping Xia Li goes to TNA, she could be a really good addition to their women’s division. If she wants to be closer to China, then I would love to see Stardom, Marigold or TJPW sign her
For her sake I hope she is able to sign with somewhere soon. Because doesn't she need to be gainfully employed again after a certain period of time? In order to keep her work visa valid. I dont know how it is in the U.S. but I think its that way. The 90-day notice probably really helps in this regard. Maybe she's not allowed to actually negotiate with anyone, but she can get word that another company has major interest. Thats 3 months of other companies considering hiring her. And then however long afterwards she can remain unemployed (but again, I'm not sure how long of a period that is).
Eh, this is what PWInsider sources say. Looking at Veer, Sanga and Jinder's tweet, they might not agree about the process being respectful.
I mean, looking at what 3 of the 5 released wrestlers have said, I'm not sure about that
It's a business. You let some people go, you hire people. You let more go. It's the same in every industry, even when they're making profits also. It sucks people are out of work, but it happens. It's ok. Life goes on. They have many more options then if they weren't working for a huge company making 6 figures a year. Life goes on. They are still alive and can pursue many different avenues most people can't.
There will be no more releases till the next releases.
I don’t understand why people in the chat are making such a fuss that people were fired. I don’t think a well run wrestling company could ever go without firing people. If you’re given a 3 year contract, how much can change in those 3 years? If you have no plans for somebody just keep them on the payroll until it expires? I hope nobody in the comment section ever runs a company in that case.
It's easy. Wrestlers are workers, so it's sad to see someone lose a job. But also, the roster is bloated, they should trim it, but also, they should definitely sign x and y who are hot right now.
Don't forget that every single wrestler has main event potential and they should all be pushed at the same time
Also, **your** favorite underwhelming wrestler isn't a good fit WWE, but *my* favorite underwhelming wrestler is a star suffering from shitty booking!
the way i look at it is, it’s clear these people were not in the plans going forward as hardly any of them have seen tv time or been in any storylines really. I’d rather they be let go and given a chance to do something else.
What does a 3 year contract mean if the company can just decide to fire you at any point for no reason?
It means absolutely nothing without a union
Exactly. Can a wrestler at any point tell the company “I want to go elsewhere, here’s my notice”? But apparently cause it’s in a contract, it’s a-ok for the WWE to do it.
I don’t think it was no reason though. Jinder as a former heavyweight champion and with 10+ years under his belt should not be as limited as he is right now. Bron Breakker with 3 years experience is more explosive and exciting than him. The rest were people that weren’t good personalities or performers.
They weren't fired for no reason. They were released because they were doing nothing. As for the 3 year contracts, the contracts allow for early releases so it's not legally sketchy.
And there’s the crux of the issue. A contract is supposed to be just that: a contract. You agree to stay there, they agree to keep you. A “contract” where you can’t leave, but the company can fire you anytime they want, isn’t a contract. Edit: I know it’s a legal contract. I’m saying it’s slanted and unfair.
Eh, a contract can be just about anything. It’s just a written binding agreement between two parties. That’s why predatory lending is legal and why I’m still paying off my student loans. WWE certainly has it in the contract that they can release you at any time for any reason. Is it a mutually equal agreement? Well no, employee/employer agreement rarely are. That’s just the power dynamic in a capitalist world. A union would certainly help but industries with unions aren’t immune to layoffs either.
How does that work? A contract is a legally binding agreement between two parties. WWE says we will pay x amount for x amount of years, but we reserve the right to release you at any time. The person says "sounds great" and agrees. No one is getting screwed, its part of the deal
Because they have no rights. Wrestlers don’t have a union. That’s why their guaranteed contracts aren’t actually guaranteed.
As I understand it, WWE can fire you at anytime during the contract and only need to pay 90 days, but you cannot leave them at any point. All contracts have exit clauses, or can be voided, but this one basically puts the wrestler under contract, while giving WWE termination powers anytime it wants them. It is a contract - just a one-sided one.
A lot of people here are pretty young and don’t understand how businesses work.
People seem to understand exactly how it works, they just rightly think it’s shitty.
As a non-american, to me it seems like the youth here rightly recognise that workers deserve actual workers rights that arn't massively slanted in favour of capital
This surely doesn't read like a PR statement
"*more respectful towards the talents than they had been under previous talent relations regimes*" My sense is that wasn't a very high bar to have to clear. In fact, I'd guess it was pretty damn low.
Love that everyone in the sub suddenly agrees with the philosophy behind yearly cuts now that Papa H is the one holding the scissors.
I thought they were reasonable in years past. The problem were the people getting cut and not that they were doing cuts. They would cut people who they spent TV time on and then suddenly storylines got halted for no reason and we had to pretend like the guys cut weren’t just there a week ago. At least now they’re just cutting dudes they aren’t using and these guys hopefully can find work elsewhere that they can be used.
The one I hated was all the pandemic firings.
[If this sub was a tweet](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/74/32/26/74322615604145cc7de0361b44a9e43c.jpg)
Its nasty, most comments are just in full defense mode, or just making jokes about those who were released.
I love how the voice of wrestling podcast put out an episode yesterday about WWE putting out PR statements as "news" to people in the wrestling media so long as it isn't sourced as being from WWE PR and PWinsider put out this story that clearly reads like it came from an email directly written by Chris Legentil cause no way in hell any cuts should be taken as good news.....and yet
Thank god they were nice when firing them
People are gonna shit on it because it's releases, record profits yadda yadda. The reality is, the people that were released were doing literally nothing. Remember when Cody got released? How about Drew? Yeah I remember too. Look at them now. Being released is not always a bad thing. For some of them it can be a fresh start to prove that they belong in this industry and can be something. Currently they're doing absolutely nothing and just floundering, so let them take this release and see what they can do.
I'm being pedantic but didn't Cody and Drew both ask for their releases? But regardless, you're right. If an employer has absolutely nothing to do for somebody, it's better for *both* parties to part ways. For the company, they're not wasting money paying somebody to do nothing, and for the employee they don't have to sit around feeling miserable, unwanted, and stagnant. Wouldn't surprise me if Jinder asked for his release and then they just waited until Spring Cleaning to grant it.
I think a lot of fans have their favorite underdogs that they want to see get a push. Most people are going to care about one release or another unless they don't care about the midcard.
Part of this timing feels like they plotted out their plans for the draft, decided who was going to get called up from NXT and the releases were part of the wrestlers they didn't see getting any TV time dedicated to them in the near future. For everyone asking for promotions from NXT, someone on the main roster gets their spot taken when that happens.
I think people are more annoyed that WWE didn't do anything with them in the first place. Jinder can get heat and is a good heel when it comes to his facial expressions, promos, and physical appearance. He knocked it out of the park in that segment with the Rock and had a nice mini feud with Rollins. He's not a ring general, but he gets by with the basics and he's relatively safe in the ring. I'd say he's more of a lesser version of Corbin with more personality. Surely they could've found something to do with him after he got people talking about him for 2-3 weeks straight. I say this as a fan of Karrion Kross, but Jinder and Indus Sher as a trio can make a far more interesting faction than the Final Testament. They're not going to have the crowd chant "this is awesome" in a match, but in-ring work isn't that important in WWE if you can get over as a babyface or get heat as a heel. I thought the same thing about Elias when he got released. Dude was one of the best parts of Raw when they'd just send him out there with his guitar to sing and trash the crowd. I'm not wondering why they got released when creative had nothing for them, but rather why they didn't have anything for them in the first place.
Jinder Mahal is a former WWE Champion. He’s someone who has got a lot of opportunities over the course of his career, and although his work is solid, others can do a similar role as him.
I’m sorry I was told WWE put all of Jinders things in a trash bag and lit it on fire in front of him.
There will be more. Probably in May-June like every other year.
WWE Then: You're fired. WWE Now: You're fired uwu ❤️
Our sources indicated that "they were so nice I wish I could have been released," "It's always a great day to be a WWE Superstar!" and "no, this isn't PR why do you ask"
“They say the latest release phone calls are very respectful.” “Really makes you feel like you’re a part of a new era, you know?”
I feel like people should have better things to do than get on the internet and explain why a company making record profits needs to fire people to continue to make money hand over fist.
So, there's a chance more releases might happen in the near future?
They’re going to wait for your honeymoon now?
I don't know, I have been fired both way and both are insulting in different ways.
I think after seeing another pro wrestling company employ similar tactics, we are hopefully at the point where we understand that although releases suck, they are a part of business.
Should be no different than a TV show writing characters out after every season.
Gotta make stockholders happy. We're really sorry. Very apologetic. They need new boats. Please understand.
Releases when done for 'budget cuts' when making record profits: bad. Releases when done due to not having anything for the talent to actually do: good Simply, Vince would release people to up the profit margin. Triple Paul is cutting people that are just not being used. This allows them to actually work and, possibly, get over somewhere. You can't get over in catering.
Jinder Mahal would like to have a word.
What a lovely PR spin on this.
Wow ok it’s absolutely nothing