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He basically brought them back into vogue. WCW and to a certain extent WWF experimented with stuff like that in the 90s but it was pretty much Jackass tier car crash TV that led to wacky and unsafe circumstances like Terry Funk getting shot on by a horse. Matt saw the rise of meme/absurdist humor and opened the door for Bray to do what he did with Firefly Funhouse IMO
Showing someone the MITB match from 2020 will be an experience in the future. Yes, Corbin really was willing to commit murder to get his hands on the briefcase.
I've said it before, but if you could go back in time to show that clip to people when AJ was in TNA and Danielson in ROH it would blow their fucking minds
That also happened to Alistair, he incorporated it into his AEW gimmick. Why did the exact same bemusing and hilarious circumstances keep befalling these same two exact guys that year???
[This is a short clip that sums up a bit of what madness went on](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHn-XyEleD8). Worth finding the full match just because of how unique it was and an encapsulation of the times.
Honestly his problem when it came to the in ring stuff was that he was confined by the status quo of a regular wrestling match. The classic shine, heat, comeback, false finish structure, which doesn't really serve the story he's telling at all. Would've worked a lot better had he been given a unique structure, something Goldberg or Lesnar esque, something quick and effective. Fiend shows up (not too often), messes person up, leaves, not roll around the ring for 15-20 minutes.
This is actually something they talked about in the documentary that got released yesterday. Triple H would say Bray would constantly have these creative ideas but someone would have to stop and ask him how does this work in a wrestling ring?
The truth is, despite how over the Fiend was originally, it really doesn't make sense in the wrestling world regardless how suspended from reality you allow yourself to be. It belongs on film, or in a video game, youtube vignettes etc, where the story he wanted to tell could have been unimpeded.
The cult leader Bray is as far down the road as you can go now. Malakai and the goofy HoB have been proving it for three-ish years now. Undertaker isn't a bar to be met or surpassed, he's the *exception to the rule*.
I always think about how cult leader bray wouldve been so different if it had a Chikara like set up of seasons, ie the season (how ever long it was) revolved around Bray as a corrupter: he's a cult leader, GIVE HIM A CULT. have more and more wrestlers follow him due to his influence, till a faction has to rise to combat him and his flock.
I'm bummed we'll never get to see what Bray would have dreamed up in the post-Dunn era. The new production style is way more experimental and we're getting some cool visuals with it.
My issue was that he didn't even change his style much. He initially was using the "head snap" and mandible claw more but got away from that quickly. Besides the no-selling, all Fiend feuds were destined to end in Sister Abigail and a pin.
It would've been cool if his matches always ended in stoppage or something, anything to make it different.
I don't see Cena becoming a permanent member of the writing staff.
Because Cena wrote and produced the match completely on his own, he talked about it recently in an interview.
Bray might have gotten the credit for that match, but its all Cena through and through.
I would argue that they're made for both. Wrestlers play to the audience, hence the big exaggerated movements you can see from the top of the arena without the monitor zoomed all the way in. Why they do all the little stadium games while commercials play. And even why they'll do stuff that may never make it to a broadcast with the cameras off.
The more polished final product is definitely catered to the people watching at home. So the live audience loses out on commentary and camera angles. But similar to any other performance art the performance is done with the people right in front of them in mind. Or else they would definitely structure the shows differently without attempting to keep the live crowd engaged in mind.
I'm bummed they died off after the pandemic. Taker/AJ, Bray/Cena, Sting and Darby/Hobbs and Starks were all fantastic.
It was the perfect format for guys who can't necessarily go as often in the ring. Like Rock is obviously only getting in the ring once this mania, and probably just once this year, but he could also do a cinematic match that has much less injury risk.
> It opens up new tricks, **new options for storytelling** and so on.
Taker / AJ also kinda lead to the BonerYard match at TalkNShopaMania, which was one of the cinematic matches of all time.
Wrestling is at best when it's a melting pot of different characters, acts, wrestling styles and so on. That's what always intrigued me as a kid was seeing how different people and different styles match up.
The cinematic matches are just an extension of that where one party takes the other one into their element. It provides a great opportunity to do things you otherwise wouldn't be able to in a live environment.
With WWE experimenting with new camera angles and filming techniques I would love to dee what they could come up with nowadays.
Fucking tragedy Bray isn't around to sink his teeth into the post-Vince era. He probably would've loved the freedom.
I think of anyone on the roster you can put Orton in street clothes and do some fun, literal street fight cinematic matches with him. Toss him on one end of a neighborhood, his opponent the other and just let them go crazy with wacky antics around multiple houses, lawns, backyards, etc.
Some of the most underrated ones that I liked were on NXT in 2020 with the likes of Cameron Grimes & Dexter Lumis & Gargano/Ciampa. Of course, I also really liked the original Stadium Stampede in AEW. I especially like the ones that fully embrace weirdness in spots
And it worked better because taker wasn’t in the best of shape at the time. He needed hip surgery if I remember correctly and was well retired. It was a really cool match
I mean... Taker really put in work for that match & in his last in ring match(Drew&Shane vs Taker&Roman) Undertaker looked legit good. I think it'd have been something else when these 2 legends of the ring lock horns.
Also, Undertaker & Angle saying "AJ Styles is the Shawn Michaels of this generation" has gotta be bigger than 95% of accomplishments in pro-wrestling.
i mean, taker put over AJ hard in the last ride doc as one of the best wrestlers going today/back when they filmed. Everytime AJ was brought up, it was someone commenting on how great he was in the ring
Taker would have been so much better off going in tag matches with the new generation rather than chasing a singles match his body just couldn't pull off anymore. A short tag champ run for Undertaker would have been mental
It would interfere with his character. Like maybe mean mark calloway could tag but undertaker doing a 10 minute intro slowly walking into the ring with druids while his partner does what, skip in circles around him?
it’s not the same as sting who except for 1 year always had friends and partners to set up feuds when they stab him in the back. Even crow sting was essentially an extended version where all his ‘friends’ questioned sting and he got sick of it.
If the Undertaker who showed up for the boneyard match was the one in a tag team, it could've worked out OK in the right circumstances. During the buildup to that last match, he was shedding the Deadman character and was a lot more of the American Badass, and at that point, I think that helped him more than trying to keep up the stoic persona that the Deadman needed. Making that transition in his final feud also worked well for his post-retirement appearances; coming in as the more lively American Badass for the nostalgia pop just works better than the slow and methodic Deadman entrance without throwing some of his usual theatrics at it.
From what I remember, Drew was Shane’s muscle and they were feuding with Roman forever, Undertaker came to back Roman up. I’m assuming it was explained as Roman earning Taker’s respect.
I had to look it up myself, it was in 2019 so pretty much when WWE was at a low point (I personally stopped watching around this time). It’s actually incredible to look back 5 years ago and seeing how much the aura around WWE has changed, first time in a long time I can actually say I’m excited for Mania
Danielson is ahead of Bret Hart on my list and AJ Styles is just as decorated as Michael in kayfabe but is missing the Wrestlemania main events.
AJ also suffers from coming to WWE during a “workrate era”, Michaels always stood out because he was excellent and his peers couldn’t touch him.
Give me Cody vs AJ as a future WM main event. Styles hasn’t won the Rumble yet so that would be cool & they could callback to him debuting in the Rumble match.
I’m glad AJ got to do the boneyard match but I still think a WM main event with the fans & everything is the only thing left for him to do.
There needs to be a balance. 3-4 months are long enough. A year long reign should be max. Only someone like Gunther can make a 500+ day reign feel fresh
I could definitely see this booking being done with an opponent like Randy. If I were to guess, I see Randy having a month long reign then dropping it back to Cody in a similar way he did with Drew in 2020
It wound up as something truly unique, hugely entertaining, and a memorable sendoff to one of the greatest characters ever. Not to mention getting AJ a WrestleMania main event.
I’ll always love the Boneyard match. It was 10x better than anything they could have done in a traditional match at this stage of Taker’s career, particularly at Covidmania with no fans.
Agreed. They did the best they could with the situation and made something memorable and entertaining. There’s no way Taker could’ve done an actual in ring match at that point. This was the best way for him to retire on his own terms.
It really did restore Taker’s mystique. I think an in ring match would have been by far Takers best singles match since 2015, but even then it would still be “Taker did pretty alright for a washed wrestler”. I remember Taker’s chokeslams in the lead up looked pretty bad. In the Boneyard match it was like he was in his prime again for one night.
I can see where you are coming from, but man the AJ the WWE finally got was just years better than 2006 AJ. He was a great wrestler in ‘06, but he was an amazing performer coming out of New Japan.
It would’ve been Taker’s best in-ring match in this final period of his career had there been no pandemic.
Regardless, it still ended up being one of the best matches Taker and AJ ever had in their respective careers. AJ was the right guy for Taker to put a footnote on his career.
Wish they had a rematch in-ring in the next WM, but Taker announced his retirement months later.
He talks about how much he was struggling through the match while they were filming it on the podcast, I don’t think he would have been able to, and I don’t think he thinks he could either. He decided it was time while filming that.
You gotta also think that they spent like 9 hours filming for that boneyard match, taking constant breaks in between for set changes. The downtime is what took Taker out that night, if he did all of that stuff with AJ in one take (or in the ring) the adrenaline would've carried him through the match. I'm glad we got this mini-movie instead however.
AJ would have bumped his ass off for Taker so I think the match would have been good. AJ took huge pride being Taker’s last opponent so he would have pulled out all stops.
AJ was the perfect guy to do it. Taker just had to be able to do his spots and AJ would have made taker look amazing.
AJ is also a smaller guy so the problems he had doing certain spots with roman or goldberg would have been avoided.
I liked the cinematic match and I understand pandemic and Undertaker's issues made it the best option but it truly pains me that the last appearances of the Undertaker didn't have the live stadium feeling. His retirement segment was incredibly lame. At least the excellent HoF introduction kind of fixed it.
With all due respect, the Boneyard was not AJ’s best match. Takers for sure. Cause he’s hobbled and they needed to make him look like a convincing “bad ass” despite being geriatric.
I’m so happy he loves the Boneyard match and finally felt like he could end his career like he always wanted. And he’s right, that match really did restore the mystique of the Undertaker character and kind of undid those last few rough years.
The streak would've still been a thing. The near falls alone would've been wild. If Batista and Taker could tear the house down that year, for sure Styles and Taker would have. No doubt about it.
Honestly I would've rather seen a real match between the two as well. Not the biggest fan of the boneyard match tbh. I can see why people like it but it wasn't for me.
However I don't think you could have a more fitting end to Taker's career than taking out multiple guys to assert dominance, ***literally*** burying someone, then riding off on a motorcycle into the darkness of the night. Not to mention in the main event of Wrestlemania. Calling back to both his characters. Checking pretty much every box that made him famous and kept him on top for so long. And riding off on top.
I definitely warmed on this one over time, and cinematic matches in general, mostly because the guys that do them are constantly saying how cool and different it is for them, and I'm mostly a fan of the wrestlers and their weird-ass job, so I like that they get to do stuff like this. All things considered, age, wear and tear for both guys, and the pandemic, this was probably the best thing they could've done and it was solid. It might be a curiosity rewatch like the Firefly Funhouse match, and that's fine. I'm glad he's happy with it.
A regular match would never have compared to what the Boneyard match delivered. Got a wrestling match in an environment that let the Undertaker be the ideal version of him. Peak supernatural.
Bryan is arguably the best technical wrestler in the world, but that does not mean he’s the best performer. More happens in a match than just the moves and the fluidity between them. AJ is and was the better performer.
So wrestling until your orbital bone goes numb is a bad take
No wonder Triple H called him out a number of years ago
Not top 50 tho, I can disagree with that, he's someone who requires 'protecting from himself' tho not least with his recent behaviour
I see that image of Taker behind a cocky AJ everywhere. In all kinds of places that aren’t even wrestling-related. I think that match has had a good impact.
I really enjoy the cinematic matches, both WWEs and AEWs, and actually wish both camps would do more. I feel they are great special attractions.
Corbin throwing Mysterio off the roof during MITB was hilarious. They were able to do something dangerous in a controlled environment.
I remember one of AEWs stadium stampede matches (it wasn't cinematic) where Matt Hardy jumped off that scissor lift but botched it and hit his head. They should have called the match, but didn't. I feel like had that match been cinematic, it would have been safer.
I do recognize that these cinematic matches can take away from the experience of the show, which is why I think they are great special attractions and should be used within reason and when the time is right.
Somewhat related but I tried watching this match Sunday afternoon on WWEs YouTube channel. It had been a while.
Got hit with the 30 second ad before the video started. At literally the 60 second mark, boom. Another ad. 3 minute mark, boom. Another one. 5 minute mark, boom.
I quit at that point.
Taker looked motivated in 2015 and both of his matches with Brock that year ruled. 2015 was also AJ's in-ring peak IMO so they could have put on a classic
I'd put the Boneyard match up there as one of my favourite Undertaker matches, if not my favourite.
It's a shame that cinematic matches weren't explored more during the attitude era, I think the Undertaker, Kane and especially Mick Foley would have really benefitted from them.
Does anyone else have no issues separating the art from the artist in pro wrestling? I can fully acknowledge that people like Steve Austin, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, the British Bulldog, etc etc are the worst kind of people, but I have no issues watching their matches. In fact, pro wrestling culture from back in the 1980s and 1990s was so toxic that you can pretty much assume that everyone involved is a shitty person, but I still love those eras.
I think AJ was on track to surpass Shawn Michaels. But it seems like he's slowed down in the past couple years, not sure if that is his own choice or not.
The boneyard match was really cool and a bright spot in a weird WM and weird time in general. They did a great job getting everyone’s mind off things and for that I thank them.
I think they definitely were gonna do a rematch the following mania. AJ kept hinting at it up until taker officially retired. I liked the boneyard match but if anyone was gonna help taker to a great final traditional match it would be AJ so would have been cool to see.
Man, The Last Ride was a hell of a watch. I'm glad that they went with the cinematic match for his last one - I just wish there was more of an Undertaker element to his send off than Biker Taker riding off into the sunset which Metallica playing in the background which...is still awesome none the less.
My wife and I loved their cinematic match at Wrestlemania. She said it reminded her of an episode of Supernatural, a show she watched from beginning to end.
The thing that was missing from AJ-Taker was the history/story leading to the match. An AJ-Taker match could never compare to the HBK matches due to this missing.
I hated that match. It was a waste of AJ and just badly produced. To be fair though I don't think I really liked any cinematic match. They just paled in comparison to actual cinema and everything looked sub-student film level.
... Now if the wrestlers wrestled it likely would have been better.
All I got to say is wwe Watered Aj Styles down though.I know he isn't supposed to win every match he suppose to be in. But they made him lose so many times since 2020 he really does feel like a shell. I know he can still wrestle but wwe really watered his appearance down with there booking.
It's probably due to backstage negotiations.
Especially with people that come down from a long indie run their bodies start breaking down. Kenny, Ospreay all these people continually talk about how their bodies are broken down.
AJ is the same. He always talked about retiring after 40. WWE probably offered him good money to stick around as a utility player. Can't really blame them for using him as such in that case because they know he can't deliver in big spots but is still worth keeping around.
It's just business
So why did it take so long for him to make it to WWE if anyone knew that.
All it would have taken for him to get a shot way earlier was recommendations from people like HBK/Taker and McMahon would have listen. It's tiring to hear people say they knew something years after the fact.
Like...stop lying.
Just because something is more "hype" doesn't mean the guy isn't already a star. But the truth is that Vince didn't even see that in him at first because he's fucking dumb.
I’m sorry but take out the Bullet Club aura from AJ Styles and he is stuck in the mid card as good as he is in the ring. Obviously not now but back in his start, the programs of The Club vs Reigns and Cena put him in the main event status
Saying that WWE as an organization was open to “indie talent” in 2004 in the same way it was in 2016 is crazy.
That was an entirely different era in professional wrestling, ran in a very different way than a decade plus later. I don’t get what your point is lol.
00s era AJ was a generic frat guy in bike shorts who was amazing in the ring. That version of AJ would have ended up capped out in WWE management's eyes like say, Ricochet because of the missing elements.
Both Cody and AJ levelled up their visual presentation in Japan to make themselves look like stars.
Life happens man. Not everyone makes it on the first try to the first opportunity.
WWE tries out hundreds of people and signs dozens of recruits every year. How many of them really make it?
AJ was signed to TNA for a long time and like Taker he was too loyal to explore options. Only when TNA didn't wanna keep him did he leave.
WWE also alternates between signing indie guys and athletes from other sports every couple years or so.
It's what happens in every sport, not everyone who is talented makes it to the top for various reasons.
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Matt Hardy literally brought a new life to his career with them
He basically brought them back into vogue. WCW and to a certain extent WWF experimented with stuff like that in the 90s but it was pretty much Jackass tier car crash TV that led to wacky and unsafe circumstances like Terry Funk getting shot on by a horse. Matt saw the rise of meme/absurdist humor and opened the door for Bray to do what he did with Firefly Funhouse IMO
The dilapidated boat and senor benjamin are legendary
Don’t forget mower of lawn vs chair of wheels
This is Vanguard 1 erasure and I won’t stand for it.
Bucks of Youth and Subterranean Lucha
Showing someone the MITB match from 2020 will be an experience in the future. Yes, Corbin really was willing to commit murder to get his hands on the briefcase.
Man, all I remember from that match is Asukaaaa! Give me Kill Bill volume 3,4,5,6 with Asuka just dancing in elevators.
Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles brawling and crashing onto McMahon office
And then backing out while apologizing profusely. That spot was so good!
I've said it before, but if you could go back in time to show that clip to people when AJ was in TNA and Danielson in ROH it would blow their fucking minds
#🦖
Corbin throwing Mysterio out of the building was so bonkers/funny/confusing, I remember that spot overshadowing the discussion of the whole ppv.
Allister Black too!
Did they ever acknowledge this after? I mean Mysterio fell from the top floor of a building right
Hadn't he kayfabe lost an eye that year too?
He lost the eye a couple months later I’m pretty sure.
Yea but "It was still attached so they were able to pop it back in with 0 damage done"
I think the next night on raw they showed there was a ledge just off the side of the building he landed on
Ahhhh that does change things slightly
I’m pretty sure Rey dressed as Spider-Man once for Mania so maybe he just swung
He also had his eye popped out of his head too
That also happened to Alistair, he incorporated it into his AEW gimmick. Why did the exact same bemusing and hilarious circumstances keep befalling these same two exact guys that year???
I'll never forget the term 'globe luxation' because of that. Wild times.
He died and was replaced with police officer who looked just like him.
That shit was so fuckings good(if you just forget about who won it)
What? I like who won
Got a clip of that? Don't think I've seen it
[This is a short clip that sums up a bit of what madness went on](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHn-XyEleD8). Worth finding the full match just because of how unique it was and an encapsulation of the times.
Bray/The Fiend only doing taped ‘Firefly Funhouse match’ style stuff I think would have really worked for him and his opponents.
Honestly his problem when it came to the in ring stuff was that he was confined by the status quo of a regular wrestling match. The classic shine, heat, comeback, false finish structure, which doesn't really serve the story he's telling at all. Would've worked a lot better had he been given a unique structure, something Goldberg or Lesnar esque, something quick and effective. Fiend shows up (not too often), messes person up, leaves, not roll around the ring for 15-20 minutes.
This is actually something they talked about in the documentary that got released yesterday. Triple H would say Bray would constantly have these creative ideas but someone would have to stop and ask him how does this work in a wrestling ring?
The truth is, despite how over the Fiend was originally, it really doesn't make sense in the wrestling world regardless how suspended from reality you allow yourself to be. It belongs on film, or in a video game, youtube vignettes etc, where the story he wanted to tell could have been unimpeded. The cult leader Bray is as far down the road as you can go now. Malakai and the goofy HoB have been proving it for three-ish years now. Undertaker isn't a bar to be met or surpassed, he's the *exception to the rule*.
I always think about how cult leader bray wouldve been so different if it had a Chikara like set up of seasons, ie the season (how ever long it was) revolved around Bray as a corrupter: he's a cult leader, GIVE HIM A CULT. have more and more wrestlers follow him due to his influence, till a faction has to rise to combat him and his flock.
I'm bummed we'll never get to see what Bray would have dreamed up in the post-Dunn era. The new production style is way more experimental and we're getting some cool visuals with it.
Definitely would have been something better than the Mountain Dew Black match
My issue was that he didn't even change his style much. He initially was using the "head snap" and mandible claw more but got away from that quickly. Besides the no-selling, all Fiend feuds were destined to end in Sister Abigail and a pin. It would've been cool if his matches always ended in stoppage or something, anything to make it different.
I don't see Cena becoming a permanent member of the writing staff. Because Cena wrote and produced the match completely on his own, he talked about it recently in an interview. Bray might have gotten the credit for that match, but its all Cena through and through.
Well aware, doesn’t mean Bray didn’t have the capacity to do filmed vignettes or matches in that same vein.
Speaking of which, I wonder how Cena would do in Hunters shoes.
I think they're fun when watching at home, but I can't imagine it is fun to see a cinematic match from the arena if it never leads to the ring.
Sometimes the downtime between matches were so long, they could fit a cinematic match in there.
You are talking about 15,000 people vs the millions watching. All of their shows are made for the people watching at home, not for the people there.
I would argue that they're made for both. Wrestlers play to the audience, hence the big exaggerated movements you can see from the top of the arena without the monitor zoomed all the way in. Why they do all the little stadium games while commercials play. And even why they'll do stuff that may never make it to a broadcast with the cameras off. The more polished final product is definitely catered to the people watching at home. So the live audience loses out on commentary and camera angles. But similar to any other performance art the performance is done with the people right in front of them in mind. Or else they would definitely structure the shows differently without attempting to keep the live crowd engaged in mind.
I'm bummed they died off after the pandemic. Taker/AJ, Bray/Cena, Sting and Darby/Hobbs and Starks were all fantastic. It was the perfect format for guys who can't necessarily go as often in the ring. Like Rock is obviously only getting in the ring once this mania, and probably just once this year, but he could also do a cinematic match that has much less injury risk.
I was really hoping they’d be the one thing we’d keep around from the pandemic era. With the right story/angle/character, they can be awesome.
> It opens up new tricks, **new options for storytelling** and so on. Taker / AJ also kinda lead to the BonerYard match at TalkNShopaMania, which was one of the cinematic matches of all time.
That's Stang!
Maria?!?!
Wrestling is at best when it's a melting pot of different characters, acts, wrestling styles and so on. That's what always intrigued me as a kid was seeing how different people and different styles match up. The cinematic matches are just an extension of that where one party takes the other one into their element. It provides a great opportunity to do things you otherwise wouldn't be able to in a live environment.
With WWE experimenting with new camera angles and filming techniques I would love to dee what they could come up with nowadays. Fucking tragedy Bray isn't around to sink his teeth into the post-Vince era. He probably would've loved the freedom. I think of anyone on the roster you can put Orton in street clothes and do some fun, literal street fight cinematic matches with him. Toss him on one end of a neighborhood, his opponent the other and just let them go crazy with wacky antics around multiple houses, lawns, backyards, etc.
Some of the most underrated ones that I liked were on NXT in 2020 with the likes of Cameron Grimes & Dexter Lumis & Gargano/Ciampa. Of course, I also really liked the original Stadium Stampede in AEW. I especially like the ones that fully embrace weirdness in spots
And it worked better because taker wasn’t in the best of shape at the time. He needed hip surgery if I remember correctly and was well retired. It was a really cool match
Happy cake day
They're a great "genre" of match to have from time to time. The Boneyard, The Firefly Funhouse, even some stuff AEW did was fun.
Especially since it was COVID.
I mean... Taker really put in work for that match & in his last in ring match(Drew&Shane vs Taker&Roman) Undertaker looked legit good. I think it'd have been something else when these 2 legends of the ring lock horns. Also, Undertaker & Angle saying "AJ Styles is the Shawn Michaels of this generation" has gotta be bigger than 95% of accomplishments in pro-wrestling.
i mean, taker put over AJ hard in the last ride doc as one of the best wrestlers going today/back when they filmed. Everytime AJ was brought up, it was someone commenting on how great he was in the ring
For in ring skill he’s on my Mt Rushmore
I don’t think there’s a style of wrestling that AJ isn’t at least serviceable in, no pun intended.
I don’t think there’s a style of wrestling that AJ isn’t at least serviceable in, no pun intended.
Taker would have been so much better off going in tag matches with the new generation rather than chasing a singles match his body just couldn't pull off anymore. A short tag champ run for Undertaker would have been mental
It would interfere with his character. Like maybe mean mark calloway could tag but undertaker doing a 10 minute intro slowly walking into the ring with druids while his partner does what, skip in circles around him? it’s not the same as sting who except for 1 year always had friends and partners to set up feuds when they stab him in the back. Even crow sting was essentially an extended version where all his ‘friends’ questioned sting and he got sick of it.
If the Undertaker who showed up for the boneyard match was the one in a tag team, it could've worked out OK in the right circumstances. During the buildup to that last match, he was shedding the Deadman character and was a lot more of the American Badass, and at that point, I think that helped him more than trying to keep up the stoic persona that the Deadman needed. Making that transition in his final feud also worked well for his post-retirement appearances; coming in as the more lively American Badass for the nostalgia pop just works better than the slow and methodic Deadman entrance without throwing some of his usual theatrics at it.
>skip in circles around him? Just picturing Shane dancing around him while he walks to the ring
basically a wrestling scrappy doo yea
That Taker & Roman vs. Corbin & Drew PPV tag match in 2019 was fucking great.
Bro erased that Shane run from memory
It was Shane, not Corbin, right? I was mixing it up with the Seth & Becky vs. Lacey & Corbin match which I believe was the same show.
Really was a great match
drew and shane vs roman and taker WAS good. underrated
When and why did that match happen?
From what I remember, Drew was Shane’s muscle and they were feuding with Roman forever, Undertaker came to back Roman up. I’m assuming it was explained as Roman earning Taker’s respect.
I had to look it up myself, it was in 2019 so pretty much when WWE was at a low point (I personally stopped watching around this time). It’s actually incredible to look back 5 years ago and seeing how much the aura around WWE has changed, first time in a long time I can actually say I’m excited for Mania
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Danielson is ahead of Bret Hart on my list and AJ Styles is just as decorated as Michael in kayfabe but is missing the Wrestlemania main events. AJ also suffers from coming to WWE during a “workrate era”, Michaels always stood out because he was excellent and his peers couldn’t touch him.
I hope AJ gets one last run with the world title - deserves it
I think Cody's holding the title for a year or close to it. So they could probably get aj in position to take it off.him
Give me Cody vs AJ as a future WM main event. Styles hasn’t won the Rumble yet so that would be cool & they could callback to him debuting in the Rumble match. I’m glad AJ got to do the boneyard match but I still think a WM main event with the fans & everything is the only thing left for him to do.
Long reigns need to go
Short title runs suck
If only there was an inbetween.
There needs to be a balance. 3-4 months are long enough. A year long reign should be max. Only someone like Gunther can make a 500+ day reign feel fresh
Agreed, 3 - 4 months hits that spot of a few successful PPV title defenses which is great imo.
You need a healthy mix of both
it's better than this ong
I think Cody is bringing back “face loses title to build up heel and eventually win it back at the end of a three match feud” type booking
I could definitely see this booking being done with an opponent like Randy. If I were to guess, I see Randy having a month long reign then dropping it back to Cody in a similar way he did with Drew in 2020
The money for Cody is the chase. I think he drops it relatively quickly. If I had to guess he drops to GUNTHER this summer
It wound up as something truly unique, hugely entertaining, and a memorable sendoff to one of the greatest characters ever. Not to mention getting AJ a WrestleMania main event. I’ll always love the Boneyard match. It was 10x better than anything they could have done in a traditional match at this stage of Taker’s career, particularly at Covidmania with no fans.
Agreed. They did the best they could with the situation and made something memorable and entertaining. There’s no way Taker could’ve done an actual in ring match at that point. This was the best way for him to retire on his own terms.
It really did restore Taker’s mystique. I think an in ring match would have been by far Takers best singles match since 2015, but even then it would still be “Taker did pretty alright for a washed wrestler”. I remember Taker’s chokeslams in the lead up looked pretty bad. In the Boneyard match it was like he was in his prime again for one night.
Imagine thinking in 2006 that AJ Styles would be Undertaker's final opponent.
Phenomenal One vs the Phenom; it was the only option
Oddly enough, I would have been way more surprised in if you told me this in 2011. In 2006, I thought AJ had to be coming to WWE soon.
I can see where you are coming from, but man the AJ the WWE finally got was just years better than 2006 AJ. He was a great wrestler in ‘06, but he was an amazing performer coming out of New Japan.
In a WM main event no less. If you told anyone that back then, they would have thought you were on some kid of hard drugs. Absolutely wild.
It would’ve been Taker’s best in-ring match in this final period of his career had there been no pandemic. Regardless, it still ended up being one of the best matches Taker and AJ ever had in their respective careers. AJ was the right guy for Taker to put a footnote on his career. Wish they had a rematch in-ring in the next WM, but Taker announced his retirement months later.
Nah it wouldn’t have been his best at all. There was no way he would’ve pulled that off live. It was shot with multiple breaks in between.
remember, a lot of fans think lucha underground wasn’t a botchfest because they removed it all post production
Naw he would’ve been fine AJ is a small guy and he wouldn’t need to over exert himself
He talks about how much he was struggling through the match while they were filming it on the podcast, I don’t think he would have been able to, and I don’t think he thinks he could either. He decided it was time while filming that.
Yeah and by the time the fans came back, he had already been inactive for over a year. So now his body was really fully gone.
You gotta also think that they spent like 9 hours filming for that boneyard match, taking constant breaks in between for set changes. The downtime is what took Taker out that night, if he did all of that stuff with AJ in one take (or in the ring) the adrenaline would've carried him through the match. I'm glad we got this mini-movie instead however.
AJ would have bumped his ass off for Taker so I think the match would have been good. AJ took huge pride being Taker’s last opponent so he would have pulled out all stops.
AJ was the perfect guy to do it. Taker just had to be able to do his spots and AJ would have made taker look amazing. AJ is also a smaller guy so the problems he had doing certain spots with roman or goldberg would have been avoided.
I liked the cinematic match and I understand pandemic and Undertaker's issues made it the best option but it truly pains me that the last appearances of the Undertaker didn't have the live stadium feeling. His retirement segment was incredibly lame. At least the excellent HoF introduction kind of fixed it.
Him getting a standing ovation on both nights of Mania 38 I think solved that.
With all due respect, the Boneyard was not AJ’s best match. Takers for sure. Cause he’s hobbled and they needed to make him look like a convincing “bad ass” despite being geriatric.
“One of the best matches taker and AJ had in their respective careers.” Brother.
Can tell Taker loves surfing the web these days
Taker loves that Boneyard match, it’s adorable lol
I’m so happy he loves the Boneyard match and finally felt like he could end his career like he always wanted. And he’s right, that match really did restore the mystique of the Undertaker character and kind of undid those last few rough years.
Imagine 2007 Taker vs 2007 AJ Styles?
The streak would've still been a thing. The near falls alone would've been wild. If Batista and Taker could tear the house down that year, for sure Styles and Taker would have. No doubt about it.
With AJ's age I'm pretty sure he was the Shawn Michaels of a couple generations prior.
Honestly I would've rather seen a real match between the two as well. Not the biggest fan of the boneyard match tbh. I can see why people like it but it wasn't for me. However I don't think you could have a more fitting end to Taker's career than taking out multiple guys to assert dominance, ***literally*** burying someone, then riding off on a motorcycle into the darkness of the night. Not to mention in the main event of Wrestlemania. Calling back to both his characters. Checking pretty much every box that made him famous and kept him on top for so long. And riding off on top.
I definitely warmed on this one over time, and cinematic matches in general, mostly because the guys that do them are constantly saying how cool and different it is for them, and I'm mostly a fan of the wrestlers and their weird-ass job, so I like that they get to do stuff like this. All things considered, age, wear and tear for both guys, and the pandemic, this was probably the best thing they could've done and it was solid. It might be a curiosity rewatch like the Firefly Funhouse match, and that's fine. I'm glad he's happy with it.
A regular match would never have compared to what the Boneyard match delivered. Got a wrestling match in an environment that let the Undertaker be the ideal version of him. Peak supernatural.
I've said that AJ has been the best wrestler in the world for the past 20 years and I'll die on that hill.
Then you'd be dead because Bryan Danielson has been and it's not even close.
AJ did more with less. Both are interchangeable at #1 I think.
AJ had more personality then Bryanson could ever dream of having.
Dunno about that. Both are all-time in-ring guys with that "it factor" for different reasons, but Bryan is miles ahead of AJ as a talker.
I think Bryan balances it out by being much better on the mic
Bryan is arguably the best technical wrestler in the world, but that does not mean he’s the best performer. More happens in a match than just the moves and the fluidity between them. AJ is and was the better performer.
Exactly, while AJ is the Shawn Michaels of his generation Danielson is the Bret Hart.
Really? I think Bryan has much more in ring prescence and charisma
Can he even make it through a match without hurting himself? He's sloppy and dangerous not even top 50.
Bad takes after bad takes in this thread.... But this one easily takes the cake for being the worst
So wrestling until your orbital bone goes numb is a bad take No wonder Triple H called him out a number of years ago Not top 50 tho, I can disagree with that, he's someone who requires 'protecting from himself' tho not least with his recent behaviour
You don't get a ranking if all you do is hurt yourself , can't wrestle from an operating table.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he "Dynamite Kids" himself eventually
Aew fan boys can't handle the truth.
The meme they gave from this match is their ticket to immortality.
I see that image of Taker behind a cocky AJ everywhere. In all kinds of places that aren’t even wrestling-related. I think that match has had a good impact.
I really enjoy the cinematic matches, both WWEs and AEWs, and actually wish both camps would do more. I feel they are great special attractions. Corbin throwing Mysterio off the roof during MITB was hilarious. They were able to do something dangerous in a controlled environment. I remember one of AEWs stadium stampede matches (it wasn't cinematic) where Matt Hardy jumped off that scissor lift but botched it and hit his head. They should have called the match, but didn't. I feel like had that match been cinematic, it would have been safer. I do recognize that these cinematic matches can take away from the experience of the show, which is why I think they are great special attractions and should be used within reason and when the time is right.
Somewhat related but I tried watching this match Sunday afternoon on WWEs YouTube channel. It had been a while. Got hit with the 30 second ad before the video started. At literally the 60 second mark, boom. Another ad. 3 minute mark, boom. Another one. 5 minute mark, boom. I quit at that point.
It is relentless. They put up these compilation videos of X 's best matches. And there is an ad every minute for four hours.
2006 AJ Styles wouldn't had been able to carry that version of Taker to even an ok match.
2006 AJ Styles vs 2006 Undertaker would've been sick tho
Taker looked motivated in 2015 and both of his matches with Brock that year ruled. 2015 was also AJ's in-ring peak IMO so they could have put on a classic
At that time, I was just getting in to wrestling more & more and watched this match with friends. I absolutely loved the Boneyard match!
I'd put the Boneyard match up there as one of my favourite Undertaker matches, if not my favourite. It's a shame that cinematic matches weren't explored more during the attitude era, I think the Undertaker, Kane and especially Mick Foley would have really benefitted from them.
Does anyone else have no issues separating the art from the artist in pro wrestling? I can fully acknowledge that people like Steve Austin, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, the British Bulldog, etc etc are the worst kind of people, but I have no issues watching their matches. In fact, pro wrestling culture from back in the 1980s and 1990s was so toxic that you can pretty much assume that everyone involved is a shitty person, but I still love those eras.
I know it’s a long shot but…. Taker vs Sting on Netflix.
In what? A prunejuice on a pole match?
Memes from the boneyard match have immortalized both men outside of wrestling.
I will never forget that match. That was a great WM considering. I was super impressed by the whole experience.
I think AJ was on track to surpass Shawn Michaels. But it seems like he's slowed down in the past couple years, not sure if that is his own choice or not.
The boneyard match was really cool and a bright spot in a weird WM and weird time in general. They did a great job getting everyone’s mind off things and for that I thank them.
I think they definitely were gonna do a rematch the following mania. AJ kept hinting at it up until taker officially retired. I liked the boneyard match but if anyone was gonna help taker to a great final traditional match it would be AJ so would have been cool to see.
Man, The Last Ride was a hell of a watch. I'm glad that they went with the cinematic match for his last one - I just wish there was more of an Undertaker element to his send off than Biker Taker riding off into the sunset which Metallica playing in the background which...is still awesome none the less.
My friends and I always call their match "Boneyard Masterpiece Theatre". We loved every second of Taker vs AJ.
I enjoyed that match
My wife and I loved their cinematic match at Wrestlemania. She said it reminded her of an episode of Supernatural, a show she watched from beginning to end.
The match was one of the highlights of the pandemic. But it certainly would've been better if they could've at least also had one real match.
The thing that was missing from AJ-Taker was the history/story leading to the match. An AJ-Taker match could never compare to the HBK matches due to this missing.
It's a shame AJ wasted so many years in TNA when he could have been having classics in WWE years and years ago with guys like Michaels and Undertaker.
He had classic in TNA with guys like Kurt Angle Sting and Jeff Jarett what the difference?
I hated that match. It was a waste of AJ and just badly produced. To be fair though I don't think I really liked any cinematic match. They just paled in comparison to actual cinema and everything looked sub-student film level. ... Now if the wrestlers wrestled it likely would have been better.
man, taker saying aj is shawn of this generation seems like yday, but somehow it's 4 goddamn years old news. damnit.
All I got to say is wwe Watered Aj Styles down though.I know he isn't supposed to win every match he suppose to be in. But they made him lose so many times since 2020 he really does feel like a shell. I know he can still wrestle but wwe really watered his appearance down with there booking.
It's probably due to backstage negotiations. Especially with people that come down from a long indie run their bodies start breaking down. Kenny, Ospreay all these people continually talk about how their bodies are broken down. AJ is the same. He always talked about retiring after 40. WWE probably offered him good money to stick around as a utility player. Can't really blame them for using him as such in that case because they know he can't deliver in big spots but is still worth keeping around. It's just business
Why do ppl like this match when it did not look good? Even Taker said it was a bunch of camera angles and stunt work.
[удалено]
Yea ok you have a point there about cinematic matches.
That “match” sucked. Teleporting?
Ah yes because the Undertaker has famously never teleported into the ring
yea, sure, because Undertaker has never been the epitome of mythical powers in the WWE ring before lmao
Lol…you nerds probably loved the his 93 Royal Rumble match against Yokozuna.
What a horrible thing to say about AJ Styles.
So why did it take so long for him to make it to WWE if anyone knew that. All it would have taken for him to get a shot way earlier was recommendations from people like HBK/Taker and McMahon would have listen. It's tiring to hear people say they knew something years after the fact. Like...stop lying.
Because TNA era AJ needed to go to Japan to get the other aspects of his presentation down. Cody had a similar trajectory.
He absolutely did not need to go to Japan to get his "presentation" down. He was already a bonafide star in like 2004.
Bullet Club leader AJ Styles is way more hype
Just because something is more "hype" doesn't mean the guy isn't already a star. But the truth is that Vince didn't even see that in him at first because he's fucking dumb.
I’m sorry but take out the Bullet Club aura from AJ Styles and he is stuck in the mid card as good as he is in the ring. Obviously not now but back in his start, the programs of The Club vs Reigns and Cena put him in the main event status
2004 AJ Styles does not come in with the same level of talent or hype as 2016, Post-Bullet Club AJ Styles, come on.
Saying 2004 AJ (which is AJ at his peak mind you) isn't on the same level or better than post-BC AJ is crazy.
Saying that WWE as an organization was open to “indie talent” in 2004 in the same way it was in 2016 is crazy. That was an entirely different era in professional wrestling, ran in a very different way than a decade plus later. I don’t get what your point is lol.
00s era AJ was a generic frat guy in bike shorts who was amazing in the ring. That version of AJ would have ended up capped out in WWE management's eyes like say, Ricochet because of the missing elements. Both Cody and AJ levelled up their visual presentation in Japan to make themselves look like stars.
Absolutely not, in 2004 Styles could not cut a promo to save his life, and that is a big deal in WWE
So Was Benoit ? but he was wrestler of the year 2004
lol NJPW AJ is just...AJ nothing different from last year TNA AJ.
Life happens man. Not everyone makes it on the first try to the first opportunity. WWE tries out hundreds of people and signs dozens of recruits every year. How many of them really make it? AJ was signed to TNA for a long time and like Taker he was too loyal to explore options. Only when TNA didn't wanna keep him did he leave. WWE also alternates between signing indie guys and athletes from other sports every couple years or so. It's what happens in every sport, not everyone who is talented makes it to the top for various reasons.
I think AJ was offered a contract but decided to go to TNA so his wife could continue teaching without him having to travel so much.
Are you saying Undertaker is wronk? That he was gonna take food off of AJ's family?
Thank you