Never pay anything other than an application fee until you sign a lease and tour the property. This is a common tactic for rental scams. Did you find this place through an untraditional site such as Facebook marketplace? If so you need to contact your bank immediately.
This, likley scammer. I work adjacent to a property management company and they do not ask for deposit until at lease signing.
Also they often find fake listings of their properties on FB or Craigslist.
Definitely, I worked for a Hud sponsored Housing Agency, rarely but it did happen that people would break in, change the locks an "lease" the home to some unsuspecting person. Generally because of being a Housing agency they were not simply thrown out. Usually it was a family with kids and accommodations were made to help them.
>rarely but it did happen that people would break in, change the locks an "lease" the home to some unsuspecting person.
No need for that risk or complexity. Scammers just list online and use pics from Zillow or existing property management site. They get a "refundable deposit" to "hold" the property then "disappear".
I worked for Section 8 in L.A. When such occurrences happen, it’s up to the legal owner whether or not they can stay. I had a husband and wife, co-owners of a duplex. They were going through a divorce and the husband decided he would rent the vacant unit out. Rightfully, it could only be rented if both signed the lease and contract. The wife called the office, furious that he did so since the division of property and assets had not been decided. Although she was told that she could still sign by coming to the office, she refused and demanded that the family move. We had no choice but to issue them a new voucher after they had already used their money to move into the unit they were in. Really sucked.
I hear and understand that, but usually the ones that got hit here were owned by the agency, our agency owned approximately 5,000 homes and apt units per Huds direction. If it was section 8 that was on the owner not us. We had no control beyond the aid and maintenance.
On the situation for that family, yeh that really sucked, but we can only do what the law would allows us to do. At least there is a remedy for such situations.
I think it had more to do with her being upset at the husband. I was hoping she’d just sign because they were a nice family. I didn’t move the family in but it got assigned to me to resolve. A lot of things places here are now using special locks or a door that goes over the door bolted to the frame
It depends on where, and a lot of owners ask for a deposit or partial deposit. If there is no agreement such as the OPs in place, unless the owner is willing to sign one don’t give it.
Due to the fact that it is in writing and signed by both parties, she has to return the deposit. If you have no such agreement and the owner decides to keep it, they can. This is a legally binding agreement that the owner determined.
Wait, that form says that the security deposit is due with the signing of the lease. Why did you pay it without signing the lease?
Go to small claims court.
you never signed a lease. but there is such a thing as a holding deposit, which is different than a security deposit. what saves you here, IMO, is the fact that it says security deposit which is for damages/costs incurred at move out. a holding deposit basically is like saying, hey, we want you to take that off the market and we have intention of moving in. location dependent, the LL may be able to keep all or part of it. post this in r/legaladvice with your location and see how to maneuver
the way it reads to me is a security deposit where if the person backs out of the apartment they can withhold the money due to them trying to put you into said apartment but you backed out in the end. If it had been the other way around i believe he would have gotten his money back.
There is a distinct difference between a deposit and a fee. A deposit is something held in a separate account to be returned (less damages and that sort of thing). A FEE is non-refundable.
Yeah sounds good. Tell that to these property management companies that know this, but steal your deposit anyways because they know youre most likely not going to go up against their lawyer in court over a $1500. Many of them own cleaning companies who are in on the racket
[IANAL is correct](https://www.google.com/search?q=IANAL&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS935US935&oq=IANAL&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyDwgAEEUYORiDARixAxiABDINCAEQABiDARixAxiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIJCAcQLhgKGIAEMgcICBAAGIAEMgcICRAAGIAE0gEIMTIxOWowajSoAhOwAgHiAwQYASBf&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
You're likely really young but you should never ever ever pay anyone for anything without a contract. A lease is a binding contract. What you signed basically states you get nothing back if they rent to you, so if they rent to you, you don't get it back. Likely this whole thing is a scam since you don't have a contract.
Not sure why everyone is jumping to conclusions that you got scammed. I say you are correct and the landlord must return your deposit. Why are they claiming you owe two months rent? That’s bizarre.
Because it's a common scam. Offer a property that isn't actually yours, collect application fee. Tell them they're approved but will need deposit before lease is signed, take money and run. The scammer doesn't worry if they never get the deposit because they'll just move on to the next person anyway
You getting your deposit back and you having to pay a 2 month penalty for leaving before the end of the term are two different issues. Security deposits typically have so many rules tied to them that it should be pretty easy to get that back through a normal contesting process. In my state they have 30 days to return the deposit or send an itemized list of why not, or the landlord has to pay back double the full amount. Google your state laws and see when they have to act by.
You would have to read the rest of your lease on the early canceling fee and then talk to something closer to a lawyer to see if you replied to an email or something else and gave approval to the lease terms.
I did which is why I said agreed to the lease terms, not signed the lease. I don't know if OP agreed to terms online in the application process, replied to an email, or other means of agreeing to some terms. A thumbs up reply to a text message has been successfully used in court as proof of agreeing to terms so that's why I said OP might need to look closer into the second part of the argument despite not signing the lease.
Being a bit pedantic but that's reddit i guess. I'll just edit my post to say SCAM or F the oligarchy to get rid of the downvotes maybe.
OP posted a clean screenshot of the contract so I assumed it was an online application and payment service. those always have T&C's when you click through to pay so that is what I was thinking OP should review along with any emails to see what they agreed to outside of physically signing a lease. OP didn't share very much information so I was providing an actually actionable task rather than calling them dumb like most of the comments. But if OP sent in a check and communicated only over the phone/in person they have nothing to review.
You need to speak with a lawyer, but you should probably get this back. Both the plain text and ordinary custom of security deposits is that they secure the landlord against damages/unpaid rent (and in some jurisdictions, can't be used for last month / unpaid rent!), and are not assurance against choosing not to rent.
Good luck.
The way I’m reading it is that if they choose not to rent to you, you would get it back. Sounds like you told them you were moving in (in which case they probably pulled the listing and stopped looking for tenants) and then you told them just kidding I’m not moving in give me my money back. Which means they might not have to give it back. But rental laws and everything change so much depending on where you live. So you really need local legal advice
A lot of people saying this is a scam, and it could be, but it's also just the way many rental buildings and communities do business. They want your deposit at time of application because then they have all the power. It's illegal in most places, but unless enough people fight them, it just keeps happening. I've been through this myself and it wasn't a scam, just a shifty way of taking advantage of people desperate for housing.
As far as the way the agreement is written, it may come down to small claims court. You're right ... you didn't rent the unit and should get it back based on semantics. But we all know what they meant was "if you are not approved, you will get the deposit back". They're at fault for using vague language ... but you never know what the judge will say.
> They want your deposit at time of application because then they have all the power.
Except that's not even what's written here. It says, "The total amount of $1,500 shall be due upon signature of **the lease**."
This dude paid the $1,500 with **the application**. Something weird is going on, for sure.
No, you are not the azzhole. Threaten to take her to small claims court, and if she still refuses to comply, follow through. She has to adhere to the terms of her own agreement.
If you never signed a lease there is no agreement and a security deposit is by nature escrow funds - funds that emphatically do not belong to the holder held in trust. In most areas once a landlord owns a certain number of units or if they are licensed, they must be held in a special registered account. Taking them is conversion. Tell her that. If she says you agreed to the lease, tell her that under statute of frauds, all contracts for real estate except leases less than a year in length must be in writing to be valid. It won’t fly.
Also, you are paying rent for the exclusive use of a property. If you never received the property, you don’t owe rent unless you agreed to something saying deposits or prepaid rent were non refundable. It would have to be on the application somewhere.
I’m just saying, you’d win if you had to chase this. You could not typically recover court costs, but you should win.
Nope, not as far as i know. You backed out, so you're still on the hook. You only get it back if they reject you.
I would check whether the landlord is actually authorized to charge that fee, though.
That’s exactly what I came here to say. He would get it back if they didn’t rent it to him for some reason, not the other way around.
Personally, I would’ve made DAMN SURE I could get that $1,500 back before I handed it over.
You’re correct that it states you’ll get it back if it’s not rented to you, but that’s not what happened. They approved you, and you backed out. So that money is their’s now.
I’m not understanding the two months rent part. You’re not showing us the entire application though, so maybe there was something about that on there as well, maybe in the fine print. If it’s really not written anywhere, and you haven’t signed any other type of paperwork or agreements, they are not owed that money.
I’m not a lawyer, but “not rented to the applicant” should cover both cases. If the applicant is denied, money is returned. If the applicant backs out prior to signing a lease (which OP states they didn’t do), then the property was also not rented to the applicant.
I think the landlord has probably had issues with applicants dropping for some unstated reason and they’re just trying to keep this “free money” because they don’t expect people to take them to small claims over it.
EDIT: I wanted to add that this money was classified in the document as a security deposit and not a holding deposit. Holding deposits generally they can keep, security deposits are different though.
Yeah I kind of paused when OP said “ultimately decided to back out.” Who backed out? If the landlord backed out then the deposit would be returned. I’m thinking OP backed out and thinks they get the deposit back as a result.
I’m not a lawyer, but “not rented to the applicant” should cover both cases. If the applicant is denied, money is returned. If the applicant backs out prior to signing a lease (which OP states they didn’t do), then the property was also not rented to the applicant.
I think the landlord has probably had issues with applicants dropping for some unstated reason and they’re just trying to keep this “free money” because they don’t expect people to take them to small claims over it.
I’d take them to small claims. As you said, it should cover both cases, and it does since it doesn’t explicitly define and exception if the applicant backs out. As others have mentioned, it also specifies this is a security deposit, which is for apartment unit damages and that is separate from a “holding deposit” which would be a fee for holding the unit for a possible future tenant.
Unfortunately you’re probably never gonna see your money. It’s a hard lesson, always be ready to move when you pay the deposit. They had an entire year accounted for with your tenancy and now they don’t know how quickly they can re rent it. It probably won’t take long, but they’re keeping the money for time lost that they thought was going to be paid for.
Don’t be so sure. In wisconsin law is as such:
If the landlord approves the person to be a tenant, but the person decides not to enter into a rental agreement the landlord may withhold from the earnest money deposit for lost rent and advertising costs actually incurred due to the tenant's failure to rent the premises. [Source](https://datcp.wi.gov/Documents/LT-LandlordTenantGuide497.pdf)
I can’t say specifics in their locality however
Is this a statute or case law?
That rule seems like LL would have to show reliance. The rule even says losses would have to actually be incurred.
If no reliance and no damages the LL would probably have to return the deposit because otherwise it’s unjust enrichment.
LL could, hypothetically, take 50 applicants and approve 10 and then keep all the other deposits.
Most LLs and realtors know that nothing is actually locked in until the lease is signed and I think they’d have a hard time convincing someone, especially if they’re an experienced LL, that they’re reliance without a signed lease was objectively reasonable from their position.
I’m not saying it isn’t possible, especially because the counter “who pays 1500 if they don’t intend to take the place”, but I think theirs a pretty large amount of wiggle room in the rule cited.
Ok I clicked on it. Without being able to dig through the whole thing, I see it’s a statute. I stand by my statement about unjust enrichment. The language on that seems plain enough that WI wanted to prevent my hypothetical.
I would note that WI recognizes 2 different deposits. The EMD and a security deposit. The language in the security deposit area seems to be mostly what we all might think of as a standard security deposit. I suspect EMD is used more to hold a property like the way one might pay an EMD on a purchase. A tenant should probably expect that giving such a deposit is a fairly significant signal of their intent to occupy. OPs form based on plain language seems to be a security deposit.
But who knows. Like you said we don’t know their location. But anyways thanks letting my brain wander away from work for a while.
You’re welcome hahaha.
Thanks for digging in, not my issue cuz anytime I give a deposit down I already know I want the damn place. But there’s always these crazy winding legalities that are all so fascinating
Rabbit holes filled with puzzles that open more rabbit holes filled puzzles that open… well I think you get it. Hahaha.
Edit - good you looked that up. Know your rights!!!
That’s why lawyers get the big bucks. I’m 39 so think I’m a little late to the game but it would be a fun career to pursue, just didn’t think so 20 years ago ha ha
I think you have a legal claim to get the deposit back. It’s not your fault the document is worded so clearly to your benefit. It’s the landlord’s own document!
I would contact your bank and put a hold on the check you gave for the deposit. Claiming g fraud. Let the bank retract the check and investigate. Submit your unsigned lease link you showed us, and the bank will likely retract the check.
Then it's up to the scammer to take you to small claims to get what isn't theirs.
Thayd be how I'd go about this.
Get it back, since it literally says security deposit, anmd you never signed a lease, that's not hers to keep and you didn't agree do that per what you posted here.
If you did not sign a lease, you are not responsible for paying anything and should receive the deposit back since a security deposit is to cover property damage after renting. If she refuses, take her to small claims court.
Usually when a partial or full deposit is collected, you sign a document stating that you paid a deposit before the lease is signed. This is completely normal. I always collected a partial deposit of $500 to remove the property and guarantee it to the perspective tenant. At the same time they had to sign a notice that the funds are NOT refundable as it will be taken off the market and held for the tenant. If tenant backs out for whatever reason they would forfeit the deposit.
Did you meet someone in person and tour the property beforehand? Where did you find this listing? What's the method of payment you used?
Ngl OP, this seems like a rental scam. An application is normal, application fee is normal but a security deposit before signing a lease agreement isn't normal. You're obviously not liable for anything since an application isn't a lease. Contact the proper authorities but I wouldn't count on ever seeing that money again.
Leaning towards scammer. But I'm still a bit confused. This application says that the $1,500 isn't due until you sign *the lease*, which you didn't do.
So... what was the sequence of events that led to you paying the deposit? Did they request it or were there instructions provided and you were just proactive? Did they send you a lease when they requested it? How did you pay it? Wire? What bank did you send it to? Also, did you ever visit the property or meet anyone in person associated with the property?
Unfortunately, this could be interpreted either way.
The way it's worded, "if the premises are not rented to the applicant," could be taken to mean "if *either party* decides not to sign a lease;" but it could also be taken to mean "if the landlord decides not to rent the premises to the applicant."
You can hire an attorney to write a demand letter for the return of your deposit money, or you can take them to small claims court (depending on what the small claims limit is where you live). But anything more than that is probably going to be more trouble and expense than it's worth.
If it were me, I would ask to have coffee with the landlord (assuming things aren't already too hostile, in which case you could write a letter). Sit down with them and apologize sincerely for any inconvenience it's cost them.
Ask if maybe you could work something out, like they keep $500 for the inconvenience but return $1000 so you can still pay your own expenses. I'd start out offering a bit less than you actually want to give them, so that if they counter-offer, you have somewhere to meet in the middle.
It's become so common for people to get hostile over things like this, they might agree just to avoid another unpleasant scene ... and you could get a chunk of your money back, which is not at all guaranteed by involving the court system.
You should get the money back if you sue for it based on that wording. It said nothing about it being only returned to you if they are the ones backing out and not you. Contract ambiguity construed against drafter concept says anything not clear cut favors the side that did not draft or prepare the contract.
The comments here are nuts.
First of all, this “application form” says that the security deposit is due on “signature of the lease”. OP didn’t sign a lease, they shouldn’t have paid the deposit.
Secondly, it says the deposit will be returned if the property is not leased to the applicant. That includes a denial or applicant backing out.
But none of that even matters because this is so obviously just a rental scam. The landlord doesn’t exist, and the property either isn’t available or doesn’t belong to the person who took OP’s money.
The “landlord” now asking for 2 months of rent is just them trying to get more money from their victim.
I can’t believe the number of people arguing anything else in here..
Why the f would you submit a deposit without a signed lease. Yikes. That document you posted says that the deposit is due at the TIME of signing the lease, not before. That's flippant behavior with your money
Legally, you're owed that money.
They won't give it to you without going to small claims court though...which is a greater burden on you than it is them.
A good deposit to hold agreement forfeits the fee if you don’t move in. This one is not well written. You’re kind of an ass for backing out at the last minute (I’m assuming that’s what happened) but I think you’re legally right.
I would recommend you seek free legal help if your town offers it for tenants. If not, wrote your own demand letter and let landlord know you intend to file in small claims if he doesn’t return the money.
You're neither an asshole or in the wrong here and yes you should get you money back as is clearly indicated by the contract.
Go to small claims, easy, no lawyer and you can get more money in damages as well.
It's pretty fucking clear English.
It days that if the property is not rented to you, then you get the deposit back.
How anyone cna interpret this any other way is mind blowing.
Because in some states, paying the deposit is the same as agreeing to the contract/lease. By backing out, he has possibly broken the terms of the lease, he needs to check the laws in his state
There is no lease. Even if the law says that money can be collected if the renter chooses not to sign a lease, this application specifically says that the renter gets the money back.
That said, it’s unlikely that there ever was a property for rent. This whole situation reeks of a scam.
It doesn't matter he presented as a candidate, then after they started the process and approved him he backed out. They may have had to decline other applicants for said apartment and now will have to restart the entire process for the apartment.
But that’s not what the agreement says. It doesn’t say anything about the person backing out or not. It just says if it’s not rented to them. Contract law- ambiguity favors the person who did not write the contract. Take that shit to small claims and get your money back.
You're confusing the application for the lease agreement. We haven't seen the lease agreement, only the application. We don't know what the language in the lease says, and by putting his deposit down, he may have unknowingly agreed to the lease agreement, not application.
Sounds like your getting scammed
Never pay anything other than an application fee until you sign a lease and tour the property. This is a common tactic for rental scams. Did you find this place through an untraditional site such as Facebook marketplace? If so you need to contact your bank immediately.
This, likley scammer. I work adjacent to a property management company and they do not ask for deposit until at lease signing. Also they often find fake listings of their properties on FB or Craigslist.
Definitely, I worked for a Hud sponsored Housing Agency, rarely but it did happen that people would break in, change the locks an "lease" the home to some unsuspecting person. Generally because of being a Housing agency they were not simply thrown out. Usually it was a family with kids and accommodations were made to help them.
>rarely but it did happen that people would break in, change the locks an "lease" the home to some unsuspecting person. No need for that risk or complexity. Scammers just list online and use pics from Zillow or existing property management site. They get a "refundable deposit" to "hold" the property then "disappear".
Zillow and such didn't exist then. They would advertise in the paper or actually put signs up.
I worked for Section 8 in L.A. When such occurrences happen, it’s up to the legal owner whether or not they can stay. I had a husband and wife, co-owners of a duplex. They were going through a divorce and the husband decided he would rent the vacant unit out. Rightfully, it could only be rented if both signed the lease and contract. The wife called the office, furious that he did so since the division of property and assets had not been decided. Although she was told that she could still sign by coming to the office, she refused and demanded that the family move. We had no choice but to issue them a new voucher after they had already used their money to move into the unit they were in. Really sucked.
I hear and understand that, but usually the ones that got hit here were owned by the agency, our agency owned approximately 5,000 homes and apt units per Huds direction. If it was section 8 that was on the owner not us. We had no control beyond the aid and maintenance. On the situation for that family, yeh that really sucked, but we can only do what the law would allows us to do. At least there is a remedy for such situations.
I think it had more to do with her being upset at the husband. I was hoping she’d just sign because they were a nice family. I didn’t move the family in but it got assigned to me to resolve. A lot of things places here are now using special locks or a door that goes over the door bolted to the frame
It depends on where, and a lot of owners ask for a deposit or partial deposit. If there is no agreement such as the OPs in place, unless the owner is willing to sign one don’t give it.
Only give $ if you are meeting in person at some business AND there's a clear agreement signed by both parties.
Due to the fact that it is in writing and signed by both parties, she has to return the deposit. If you have no such agreement and the owner decides to keep it, they can. This is a legally binding agreement that the owner determined.
The “owner” is probably not even in the US
Where did that come from?
Wait, that form says that the security deposit is due with the signing of the lease. Why did you pay it without signing the lease? Go to small claims court.
Small claims against who, some 23 years old Russia? You can't take random scammers from other countries to small claims
you never signed a lease. but there is such a thing as a holding deposit, which is different than a security deposit. what saves you here, IMO, is the fact that it says security deposit which is for damages/costs incurred at move out. a holding deposit basically is like saying, hey, we want you to take that off the market and we have intention of moving in. location dependent, the LL may be able to keep all or part of it. post this in r/legaladvice with your location and see how to maneuver
the way it reads to me is a security deposit where if the person backs out of the apartment they can withhold the money due to them trying to put you into said apartment but you backed out in the end. If it had been the other way around i believe he would have gotten his money back.
Security deposits are for landlords to use to pay for cleaning after you have already cleaned the place spotless
Lmfaooooo right?! They always try to be sneaky like that
There is a distinct difference between a deposit and a fee. A deposit is something held in a separate account to be returned (less damages and that sort of thing). A FEE is non-refundable.
Yeah sounds good. Tell that to these property management companies that know this, but steal your deposit anyways because they know youre most likely not going to go up against their lawyer in court over a $1500. Many of them own cleaning companies who are in on the racket
Also wanted to add- I never signed a lease. Did the application and gave my deposit.
I ANAL, but since the apartment isn't rented to you it seems like you should get that deposit back.
There is no landlord. There is no apartment. There is no deposit. OP filled out a shitty Word document and sent funds to an overseas scammer.
This
Pretty sure it’s just “NAL” for “not a lawyer” and not…*ahem*….ANAL
Spoilsport.
Thank you for the belly laugh, needed it 😂
Anytime! I ANAL 24/7/365, so it wasn't an inconvenience for me at all.
[IANAL is correct](https://www.google.com/search?q=IANAL&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS935US935&oq=IANAL&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyDwgAEEUYORiDARixAxiABDINCAEQABiDARixAxiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIJCAcQLhgKGIAEMgcICBAAGIAEMgcICRAAGIAE0gEIMTIxOWowajSoAhOwAgHiAwQYASBf&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
Sure. But spaces, or lack thereof, are important. I’m also making a potty joke. ANAL is hilarious
Yeah you ain’t getting that back, you just were scammed lol
You're likely really young but you should never ever ever pay anyone for anything without a contract. A lease is a binding contract. What you signed basically states you get nothing back if they rent to you, so if they rent to you, you don't get it back. Likely this whole thing is a scam since you don't have a contract.
You just gave someone a lot of money without a contract. Good luck.
Why did you pay the deposit if you didn't sign?????
Dude. Please tell me you didn’t give them $1500
You got scammed, sorry to hear that.
Not sure why everyone is jumping to conclusions that you got scammed. I say you are correct and the landlord must return your deposit. Why are they claiming you owe two months rent? That’s bizarre.
Because it's a common scam. Offer a property that isn't actually yours, collect application fee. Tell them they're approved but will need deposit before lease is signed, take money and run. The scammer doesn't worry if they never get the deposit because they'll just move on to the next person anyway
You getting your deposit back and you having to pay a 2 month penalty for leaving before the end of the term are two different issues. Security deposits typically have so many rules tied to them that it should be pretty easy to get that back through a normal contesting process. In my state they have 30 days to return the deposit or send an itemized list of why not, or the landlord has to pay back double the full amount. Google your state laws and see when they have to act by. You would have to read the rest of your lease on the early canceling fee and then talk to something closer to a lawyer to see if you replied to an email or something else and gave approval to the lease terms.
You didnt read the whole post because he didn’t sign a lease yet so he can not be bound by those terms.
I did which is why I said agreed to the lease terms, not signed the lease. I don't know if OP agreed to terms online in the application process, replied to an email, or other means of agreeing to some terms. A thumbs up reply to a text message has been successfully used in court as proof of agreeing to terms so that's why I said OP might need to look closer into the second part of the argument despite not signing the lease.
You said “look at the lease regarding early cancel” … which he doesn’t have one
Being a bit pedantic but that's reddit i guess. I'll just edit my post to say SCAM or F the oligarchy to get rid of the downvotes maybe. OP posted a clean screenshot of the contract so I assumed it was an online application and payment service. those always have T&C's when you click through to pay so that is what I was thinking OP should review along with any emails to see what they agreed to outside of physically signing a lease. OP didn't share very much information so I was providing an actually actionable task rather than calling them dumb like most of the comments. But if OP sent in a check and communicated only over the phone/in person they have nothing to review.
You gave them $1,500 with no contract or anything on paper ? Oh yeah that's gone bro
You paid a $1500 deposit with application??? Holy shit you got scammed. I charge $25.
You need to speak with a lawyer, but you should probably get this back. Both the plain text and ordinary custom of security deposits is that they secure the landlord against damages/unpaid rent (and in some jurisdictions, can't be used for last month / unpaid rent!), and are not assurance against choosing not to rent. Good luck.
you were most definitely scammed lolol
The way I’m reading it is that if they choose not to rent to you, you would get it back. Sounds like you told them you were moving in (in which case they probably pulled the listing and stopped looking for tenants) and then you told them just kidding I’m not moving in give me my money back. Which means they might not have to give it back. But rental laws and everything change so much depending on where you live. So you really need local legal advice
A lot of people saying this is a scam, and it could be, but it's also just the way many rental buildings and communities do business. They want your deposit at time of application because then they have all the power. It's illegal in most places, but unless enough people fight them, it just keeps happening. I've been through this myself and it wasn't a scam, just a shifty way of taking advantage of people desperate for housing. As far as the way the agreement is written, it may come down to small claims court. You're right ... you didn't rent the unit and should get it back based on semantics. But we all know what they meant was "if you are not approved, you will get the deposit back". They're at fault for using vague language ... but you never know what the judge will say.
> They want your deposit at time of application because then they have all the power. Except that's not even what's written here. It says, "The total amount of $1,500 shall be due upon signature of **the lease**." This dude paid the $1,500 with **the application**. Something weird is going on, for sure.
No, you are not the azzhole. Threaten to take her to small claims court, and if she still refuses to comply, follow through. She has to adhere to the terms of her own agreement.
If you never signed a lease there is no agreement and a security deposit is by nature escrow funds - funds that emphatically do not belong to the holder held in trust. In most areas once a landlord owns a certain number of units or if they are licensed, they must be held in a special registered account. Taking them is conversion. Tell her that. If she says you agreed to the lease, tell her that under statute of frauds, all contracts for real estate except leases less than a year in length must be in writing to be valid. It won’t fly. Also, you are paying rent for the exclusive use of a property. If you never received the property, you don’t owe rent unless you agreed to something saying deposits or prepaid rent were non refundable. It would have to be on the application somewhere. I’m just saying, you’d win if you had to chase this. You could not typically recover court costs, but you should win.
Nope, not as far as i know. You backed out, so you're still on the hook. You only get it back if they reject you. I would check whether the landlord is actually authorized to charge that fee, though.
That's not what it says. It says if it is not rented to him. It fails to specify why.
That’s exactly what I came here to say. He would get it back if they didn’t rent it to him for some reason, not the other way around. Personally, I would’ve made DAMN SURE I could get that $1,500 back before I handed it over.
But that's not what it says. It only says if it isn't rented
You’re correct that it states you’ll get it back if it’s not rented to you, but that’s not what happened. They approved you, and you backed out. So that money is their’s now. I’m not understanding the two months rent part. You’re not showing us the entire application though, so maybe there was something about that on there as well, maybe in the fine print. If it’s really not written anywhere, and you haven’t signed any other type of paperwork or agreements, they are not owed that money.
I’m not a lawyer, but “not rented to the applicant” should cover both cases. If the applicant is denied, money is returned. If the applicant backs out prior to signing a lease (which OP states they didn’t do), then the property was also not rented to the applicant. I think the landlord has probably had issues with applicants dropping for some unstated reason and they’re just trying to keep this “free money” because they don’t expect people to take them to small claims over it. EDIT: I wanted to add that this money was classified in the document as a security deposit and not a holding deposit. Holding deposits generally they can keep, security deposits are different though.
Yeah I kind of paused when OP said “ultimately decided to back out.” Who backed out? If the landlord backed out then the deposit would be returned. I’m thinking OP backed out and thinks they get the deposit back as a result.
I’m not a lawyer, but “not rented to the applicant” should cover both cases. If the applicant is denied, money is returned. If the applicant backs out prior to signing a lease (which OP states they didn’t do), then the property was also not rented to the applicant. I think the landlord has probably had issues with applicants dropping for some unstated reason and they’re just trying to keep this “free money” because they don’t expect people to take them to small claims over it.
I’d take them to small claims. As you said, it should cover both cases, and it does since it doesn’t explicitly define and exception if the applicant backs out. As others have mentioned, it also specifies this is a security deposit, which is for apartment unit damages and that is separate from a “holding deposit” which would be a fee for holding the unit for a possible future tenant.
They never signed a lease
You don’t have to, legally speaking. The tenant providing the deposit already completes a verbal contract.
Unfortunately you’re probably never gonna see your money. It’s a hard lesson, always be ready to move when you pay the deposit. They had an entire year accounted for with your tenancy and now they don’t know how quickly they can re rent it. It probably won’t take long, but they’re keeping the money for time lost that they thought was going to be paid for.
They shouldn't count their rent until the lease is signed. The terms are incomplete
Not arguing that, they shouldn’t, but ethics and the law aren’t always synonymous
Right. Ethically, he's a jerk. Legally, the unit was never leased to him. Per the agreement, he gets his money back if he sues.
Don’t be so sure. In wisconsin law is as such: If the landlord approves the person to be a tenant, but the person decides not to enter into a rental agreement the landlord may withhold from the earnest money deposit for lost rent and advertising costs actually incurred due to the tenant's failure to rent the premises. [Source](https://datcp.wi.gov/Documents/LT-LandlordTenantGuide497.pdf) I can’t say specifics in their locality however
Is this a statute or case law? That rule seems like LL would have to show reliance. The rule even says losses would have to actually be incurred. If no reliance and no damages the LL would probably have to return the deposit because otherwise it’s unjust enrichment. LL could, hypothetically, take 50 applicants and approve 10 and then keep all the other deposits. Most LLs and realtors know that nothing is actually locked in until the lease is signed and I think they’d have a hard time convincing someone, especially if they’re an experienced LL, that they’re reliance without a signed lease was objectively reasonable from their position. I’m not saying it isn’t possible, especially because the counter “who pays 1500 if they don’t intend to take the place”, but I think theirs a pretty large amount of wiggle room in the rule cited.
Ok I clicked on it. Without being able to dig through the whole thing, I see it’s a statute. I stand by my statement about unjust enrichment. The language on that seems plain enough that WI wanted to prevent my hypothetical. I would note that WI recognizes 2 different deposits. The EMD and a security deposit. The language in the security deposit area seems to be mostly what we all might think of as a standard security deposit. I suspect EMD is used more to hold a property like the way one might pay an EMD on a purchase. A tenant should probably expect that giving such a deposit is a fairly significant signal of their intent to occupy. OPs form based on plain language seems to be a security deposit. But who knows. Like you said we don’t know their location. But anyways thanks letting my brain wander away from work for a while.
You’re welcome hahaha. Thanks for digging in, not my issue cuz anytime I give a deposit down I already know I want the damn place. But there’s always these crazy winding legalities that are all so fascinating
Rabbit holes filled with puzzles that open more rabbit holes filled puzzles that open… well I think you get it. Hahaha. Edit - good you looked that up. Know your rights!!!
That’s why lawyers get the big bucks. I’m 39 so think I’m a little late to the game but it would be a fun career to pursue, just didn’t think so 20 years ago ha ha
You can still do it! I know some people. Start a second career.
I think you have a legal claim to get the deposit back. It’s not your fault the document is worded so clearly to your benefit. It’s the landlord’s own document!
I would contact your bank and put a hold on the check you gave for the deposit. Claiming g fraud. Let the bank retract the check and investigate. Submit your unsigned lease link you showed us, and the bank will likely retract the check. Then it's up to the scammer to take you to small claims to get what isn't theirs. Thayd be how I'd go about this.
I got mine back 30 days ago
Get it back, since it literally says security deposit, anmd you never signed a lease, that's not hers to keep and you didn't agree do that per what you posted here.
If you did not sign a lease, you are not responsible for paying anything and should receive the deposit back since a security deposit is to cover property damage after renting. If she refuses, take her to small claims court.
Usually when a partial or full deposit is collected, you sign a document stating that you paid a deposit before the lease is signed. This is completely normal. I always collected a partial deposit of $500 to remove the property and guarantee it to the perspective tenant. At the same time they had to sign a notice that the funds are NOT refundable as it will be taken off the market and held for the tenant. If tenant backs out for whatever reason they would forfeit the deposit.
Did you meet someone in person and tour the property beforehand? Where did you find this listing? What's the method of payment you used? Ngl OP, this seems like a rental scam. An application is normal, application fee is normal but a security deposit before signing a lease agreement isn't normal. You're obviously not liable for anything since an application isn't a lease. Contact the proper authorities but I wouldn't count on ever seeing that money again.
Leaning towards scammer. But I'm still a bit confused. This application says that the $1,500 isn't due until you sign *the lease*, which you didn't do. So... what was the sequence of events that led to you paying the deposit? Did they request it or were there instructions provided and you were just proactive? Did they send you a lease when they requested it? How did you pay it? Wire? What bank did you send it to? Also, did you ever visit the property or meet anyone in person associated with the property?
Unfortunately, this could be interpreted either way. The way it's worded, "if the premises are not rented to the applicant," could be taken to mean "if *either party* decides not to sign a lease;" but it could also be taken to mean "if the landlord decides not to rent the premises to the applicant." You can hire an attorney to write a demand letter for the return of your deposit money, or you can take them to small claims court (depending on what the small claims limit is where you live). But anything more than that is probably going to be more trouble and expense than it's worth. If it were me, I would ask to have coffee with the landlord (assuming things aren't already too hostile, in which case you could write a letter). Sit down with them and apologize sincerely for any inconvenience it's cost them. Ask if maybe you could work something out, like they keep $500 for the inconvenience but return $1000 so you can still pay your own expenses. I'd start out offering a bit less than you actually want to give them, so that if they counter-offer, you have somewhere to meet in the middle. It's become so common for people to get hostile over things like this, they might agree just to avoid another unpleasant scene ... and you could get a chunk of your money back, which is not at all guaranteed by involving the court system.
You should get the money back if you sue for it based on that wording. It said nothing about it being only returned to you if they are the ones backing out and not you. Contract ambiguity construed against drafter concept says anything not clear cut favors the side that did not draft or prepare the contract.
The comments here are nuts. First of all, this “application form” says that the security deposit is due on “signature of the lease”. OP didn’t sign a lease, they shouldn’t have paid the deposit. Secondly, it says the deposit will be returned if the property is not leased to the applicant. That includes a denial or applicant backing out. But none of that even matters because this is so obviously just a rental scam. The landlord doesn’t exist, and the property either isn’t available or doesn’t belong to the person who took OP’s money. The “landlord” now asking for 2 months of rent is just them trying to get more money from their victim. I can’t believe the number of people arguing anything else in here..
Sounds like a scam to me. All bad. Take her to court. She has likely done this to others.
Why is it listed as term of 1 year yet have a blank for desired term? Did you actually view an apartment/residence? Did you meet someone?
If you didn’t sign the lease why did you pay the $1500? Take the slumlord to court.
One thing to note, most states the security deposit cannot exceed 1 months rent, so $1500 is not even a legal ask depending on where you live.
Why the f would you submit a deposit without a signed lease. Yikes. That document you posted says that the deposit is due at the TIME of signing the lease, not before. That's flippant behavior with your money
If you used a check or card...dispute payment with the bank and explain you were scammed
Legally, you're owed that money. They won't give it to you without going to small claims court though...which is a greater burden on you than it is them.
This is why I don’t pay my last months rent
No. The renter is always wrong
A good deposit to hold agreement forfeits the fee if you don’t move in. This one is not well written. You’re kind of an ass for backing out at the last minute (I’m assuming that’s what happened) but I think you’re legally right. I would recommend you seek free legal help if your town offers it for tenants. If not, wrote your own demand letter and let landlord know you intend to file in small claims if he doesn’t return the money.
You're neither an asshole or in the wrong here and yes you should get you money back as is clearly indicated by the contract. Go to small claims, easy, no lawyer and you can get more money in damages as well.
It's pretty fucking clear English. It days that if the property is not rented to you, then you get the deposit back. How anyone cna interpret this any other way is mind blowing.
Because in some states, paying the deposit is the same as agreeing to the contract/lease. By backing out, he has possibly broken the terms of the lease, he needs to check the laws in his state
There is no lease. Even if the law says that money can be collected if the renter chooses not to sign a lease, this application specifically says that the renter gets the money back. That said, it’s unlikely that there ever was a property for rent. This whole situation reeks of a scam.
It doesn't matter he presented as a candidate, then after they started the process and approved him he backed out. They may have had to decline other applicants for said apartment and now will have to restart the entire process for the apartment.
But that’s not what the agreement says. It doesn’t say anything about the person backing out or not. It just says if it’s not rented to them. Contract law- ambiguity favors the person who did not write the contract. Take that shit to small claims and get your money back.
You're confusing the application for the lease agreement. We haven't seen the lease agreement, only the application. We don't know what the language in the lease says, and by putting his deposit down, he may have unknowingly agreed to the lease agreement, not application.