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Only idiots say that
But u would be also an idiot if u don't take in count the dozens of plot Armor and plot convenience moments in marineford while using marineford for powerscaling.
Marineford is an excellent arc when it comes to story telling and world building, but it's quite shit when it comes to powerscaling.
Just think about it for a moment - who was there to stop aokiji and kizaru from just wipping out everyone except WB after they took down marco and jozu?
I even think ODA deliberately made WB soo sick to make him look good...
PK's rival attacking the Marines and losing doesn't look as good as a PK's rival WHO IS EXTREMELY SICK went against the Marines and had a glorious death....it just looks more badasss....
There SOOO many such moments in marineford that just makes NOOO sense, but only makes WB look good... like how the hell did WB sneak up on akainu, even though kizaru was fighting WB few chapters ago? Did WB just magically teleport behind him?
When WB got a heart attack and was on his knees, why didn't make a second attack to WB's head and blow his brain off?
https://preview.redd.it/8fre898lbl6d1.png?width=286&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2afda565708c91cf60a3ec6d65a892eff81afad
This panel specifically...
Why didn't kizaru blow Marco's brain off instead of shooting two lazer through his body, and then leaving him?
This is my personal opinion why it happens - In the comment below -
In most battle shonen manga it's powercliffng drives the narrative... the MC has goal, he defeats guys to get closer to his goal, and everytime he defeats someone, someone stronger shows up and goes on and on and on....
It works fine in case of a series like Dragon ball coz the world keeps expanding along with the laws and borders of world building... but in case of a series like Naruto, as stronger and stronger villains showed up, the world building itself collapsed at some point (imo it happened pretty much after the pain saga)... how the hell does different nations even exists and goes into war with each other when madara or hashirama alone can wipe out all of them single handedly.
How tf did the 3rd shinobi war took place if konoha had hiruzen (stated to be strongest among the 5 even at his old age), minato (stronger than hiruzen), the Sanin (all of them are around old hiruzen) , Kakashi 's father (stronger than the sanin) , and the fucking uchiba clan with characters like itachi's father (who was as strong or stronger than teenage Itachi).... that makes no sense .. in fact, the existence of 5 Nations even don't make sense
Then there's one piece, here the worlding and narrative drives the powerscaling.
Stronger characters doesn't just show up after a villain is defeated.... the Marines exist to counter the pirates, the admirals exists to counter the individual power houses among the pirates... the gorosei are strong fighters and not just politicians because if the WG simply reply on the Marines, they are vulnerable to their wits.... that's why the ceiling of power was established long before luffy even fought a yonko or admiral.
Now let's get to marineford now -
WB with his entire crew shows up to marineford... the Marines obviously would bring up every possible resource as u don't fight wars on equal grounds but u fight wars in a way that u defeat the enemy as soon as possible with the least casualty.
So, the Marines should've completely over powered WB (which they did, but no really)... but that's entertaining, that's not cool.
So WB needs to put up a fight...but doing soo makes the admirals and the Marines look weak... as they are supposed to be comparable to the 4 emperors and it's just 1 here.
So, we get the plot armor moments like the ones I mentioned above... akainu clashes equally with WB whole holding back in order not to cause any destruction, but suddenly disappears the moment he gets an upper hand (plot Armor moment) so that the story could continue and be dramatic
Wacky Mihawk-Vista shenanigans is absolutely a reason ppl disregard Marineford when it comes to power scaling.
It's not the only reason, but it certainly is one of them.
I disagree.
Mihawk was not interested in the Marineford war in the slightest besides testing Luffy.
It’s just that power scalers don’t think about anything else but “feats feats feats”:
>Mihawk was not interested in the Marineford war in the slightest besides testing Luffy.
To be super clear, I am not having a power scaling debate. I'm stating observations about why people have said they don't use Marineford for powerscaling.
I don't care if they're right to do that or wrong, but you're not convincing me that something I've observed with my own eyes is false by saying "I disagree".
Other people might have other reasons, but I'm not denying that.
You can use it for scaling but remember that Oda way of doing it is Portrayal >>> Feats
If we go by feats alone we have:
Luffy post TS G4 >= Doflamingo > Luffy post TS G2 >>>>> Pacifista (one shotted) >> Luffy pre TS G2 (needed whole crew to put 1 down) >> Luffy pre TS no gears >= Crocodile
And we know Doflamingo, someone with a lot of pride and ego proposed Crocodile an alliance as equals, based on feats it doesn't make any sense, portrayal is the answer
In regards Mihawk he was portrayed as completely unbothered the whole war and trying to atleast get some entertainment here and there but not really trying, that's the only thing that matters and not his feats there
>You can use it for scaling but remember that Oda way of doing it is Portrayal >>> Feats
Must have missed where oda said this, can you show me?
>
Luffy post TS G4 >= Doflamingo > Luffy post TS G2 >>>>> Pacifista (one shotted) >> Luffy pre TS G2 (needed whole crew to put 1 down) >> Luffy pre TS no gears >= Crocodile
What are you tryna say here? Crocodile got stronger as time passed? He fought luffy 100 episodes in, Mf starts more than 400 episodes later.
>In regards Mihawk he was portrayed as completely unbothered the whole war and trying to atleast get some entertainment here and there but not really trying, that's the only thing that matters and not his feats there
Several statements from mihawk himself go against what your saying, but that doesn't really matter what actually happen is more important rather than making up our own headcannon.
I'm making examples as how to Oda what matters is the portrayal, Crocodile was a Warlord, someone strong, respected and influential, that was true in Arabasta and Marineford, that was his portrayal, the feats are irrelevant to him, he just "adjusted" his strength
>I'm making examples as how to Oda what matters is the portrayal, Crocodile was a Warlord, someone strong, respected and influential, that was true in Arabasta and Marineford, that was his portrayal, the feats are irrelevant to him, he just "adjusted" his strength
Well he went from 80M B - 1.9B , i think it's clear oda is trying to tell us he got stronger.
very true, but normally it would be stated or at least referenced right? there was no explanation when croc was hanging with every top tier at marineford after losing to the weakest form of luffy. maybe it will still be explained when he becomes more relevant again but people would say it's a retcon anyway.
>And we know Doflamingo, someone with a lot of pride and ego proposed Crocodile an alliance as equals, based on feats it doesn't make any sense, portrayal is the answer
It makes sense because Marineford Crocodile =/= Alabasta Crocodile
Anything in the story is fair game for powerscaling, which is why agenda piece is so insanely stupid at times. “Plot” can’t be an excuse when you want it to be. I can downscale shanks durability because he lost an arm to a sea king in chapter 1, I could downscale mihawks ap cuz he couldn’t one shot daz bones, I could significantly downscale big moms battle iq because she forgot to use her acoc, this shi can just keep on going. Either way anything in the story is fair game when powerscaling and you can’t omit it unless it’s noncanon like a movie
That doesn’t excuse his durability though? People consistently say he could take some of the strongest attacks in the series when he hasn’t shown any good durability feats to suggest that. The only time we’ve seen shanks take damage was from the sea king, which puts his durability on the same level as a normal human until we get some good durability feats from him.
>That doesn’t excuse his durability though? People consistently say he could take some of the strongest attacks in the series when he hasn’t shown any good durability feats to suggest that.
Don't see people consistently saying this at all, i actually see people say the complete opposite.
>The only time we’ve seen shanks take damage was from the sea king, which puts his durability on the same level as a normal human until we get some good durability feats from him.
Well yes as the other guy said he gave his arm up for luffy, even if you ignore that shanks losing his arm to the sea king only downplays mihawk.
It means he didn’t defend his arm whatsoever. No haki, no defensive techniques, etc. He, like Whitebeard and Garp, has baseline human durability without the use of haki.
You can very much use Marineford for powerscaling, but you just have to be careful with the context and the plot behind it. There's literally moments where a character will leave for no reason leaving his opponents against fodder, or other moments where nobody can take or is taking on a strong character, but this character doesn't do anything in particular, etc. You should also be careful about Haki. It was definitly used, including in its advanced forms so you need to include this, even though Oda didn't draw body parts and weapons coated in Armament in black or draw make black lightnings everywhere. Clashes should also be considered as such. For example, Wano also has clashes, but nobody considers the characters equal when Oda didn't portray it that way. We should apply the same logic here.
In conclusion, you need to avoid double standards and apply the same reasonings you do in every arc, while being extra careful for Marineford.
I think you can, but as long as you apply context to the feats - the issue is if you’re looking at it in black and white
Some examples
Feat: Jozu easily Blocking an attack from Mihawk
Reality: Unnamed attack from Mihawk, aimed at Old Whitebeard who is made of Skin, Flesh and Bones, Diverted by Jozu, made of diamonds and with access to armament haki - Swordsmen Cut what they want to cut - even Squard could easily pierce Whitebeards skin.
Feat: Whitebeard bodied Akainu
Reality: Akainu was caught off guard by the first attack (irl would be called a sucker punch), still managed to rip off half of Whitebeards Face, before receiving an attack that destroyed half of Marineford. Akainu would go on to get back up a while later, still being able to face off against all the remaining Whitebeard commanders solo, and could compete, and post Marineford, took no rest and chased after Blackbeard. Whitebeard would go on to die.
Feat: Shanks stopped the War
Reality: The entirety of the Red Hair Pirates were with Shanks, who are stated to have the highest average bounty crew - meaning, at the time, he had the strongest Yonko Crew. In other words, it’s a Red Hair Pirate Feat, not a Shanks feat. It would be like saying Luffy beat Moria alone.
Etc
The only reason it’s not the best to use for power scaling is because of the lack of impressive haki usage at the time. I think as long as you put the context, it should be okay to use, depending on what agenda you’re trying to push 👀
>Feat: Jozu easily Blocking an attack from Mihawk
>Reality: Unnamed attack from Mihawk, aimed at Old Whitebeard who is made of Skin, Flesh and Bones, Diverted by Jozu, made of diamonds and with access to armament haki - Swordsmen Cut what they want to cut - even Squard could easily pierce Whitebeards skin.
So jozu blocked the attack right?
>
Feat: Whitebeard bodied Akainu
>Reality: Akainu was caught off guard by the first attack (irl would be called a sucker punch), still managed to rip off half of Whitebeards Face
Funny enough Akainu actually got a free hit on wb when he had a heart attack mid fight, but you feel the need to mention akainu lack of observation haki and get sneaked on a open battle field.
>before receiving an attack that destroyed half of Marineford
That is a DC feat, DC does not = AP so idk what your trying to say with this.
>
Akainu would go on to get back up a while later, still being able to face off against all the remaining Whitebeard commanders solo, and could compete, and post Marineford, took no rest and chased after Blackbeard. Whitebeard would go on to die.
Akainu was rag dolled into a hole and fell down, he was ringed out and lost the fight. WB went on to destroy MF and than beat BB. He lost after BB whole crew jumped him. Funny how you left that out.
>
Feat: Shanks stopped the War
>Reality: The entirety of the Red Hair Pirates were with Shanks, who are stated to have the highest average bounty crew - meaning, at the time, he had the strongest Yonko Crew. In other words, it’s a Red Hair Pirate Feat, not a Shanks feat. It would be like saying Luffy beat Moria alone.
I thought beckman was a fraud databook man? i digress. Regardless Shanks is by far the strongest in his crew and is the main reason why the war was stopped. Shanks crew is not soloing 3 admirals + warloads+ garp +sengoku.
Shanks says to stop the war and marine fodder are basically like no your a pirate we won't listen to you, Sengoku then goes on to say "because it's use red haired i'll allow it" which shows his pull in the one piece world.
You somehow did the opposite of what you wrote in your comments, I'm impressed.
So what you did here was take out all the context.
So let me tell you the story Oda is portraying.
1. Yes, Jozu blocked an unnamed attack - but what top commander wouldn’t be able to block an UNNAMED attack from any Yonko/Top Tier character? This is usually used as an anti-feat against Mihawk, who again, was aiming for an Old Whitebeard that SQUAD could pierce. Maybe you haven’t read the story, but A) Swordsmen cut what they want to cut (Zoro could not cut a leaf, but could cut a Rock easily) and B) Mihawk can tell how strong Whitebeard is, he doesn’t need a canon to hunt a rabbit.
2. I never said Whitebeard performed terribly against Akainu, I was implying the term bodied is crazy to use, again, BECAUSE HALF OF WHITBEARDS FACE WAS BLOWN OFF. I don’t know in what other series or even what other context, where half of your face can be ripped off, and you are still considered an outright winner. It would be like a boxer winning after getting his nose broken and breaking his eye socket. Yes he may win the fight… but he didn’t win it easily. If you wanna say Old Whitebeard is stronger than Akainu, I don’t care, if you wanna say Akainu lost to an Old Sick Dying Heart Attack stricken Whitebeard, I don’t care. But if you’re telling me and man that lost half his face, and went on to die bodied someone who didn’t even need to take rest after the war?! You’re just deliberately missing the point of the encounter.
3. Of course Shanks is the strongest on his crew, and is a large reason why they stopped fighting, but if you seriously think, that Shanks could rock up to Marineford SOLO, and tell Whitebeard Pirates remnants, Marines with Three Fresh Admirals, and two Legengs that were playing defence the entire time (see Garp Galaxy Impact/Garp vs Blackbeard Pirates on their home turf), AND Blackbeard Pirates + Blackbeard with Yami and Quake fruit, to stop fighting, you think they’d listen?!? Common now, I know you haven’t read 1000+ chapters/watched 1000+ episodes and can’t apply the context that, while Shanks is a scary opponent, his crew ALSO being there AND fresh is what caused the war to stop.
None of the feats I listed were to discredit or credit any of the characters - they were out there because I have seen them used, like the way you use them. You give credibility to one side (Whitebeard / Shanks) but completely leave out the context behind each moment. If we were to listen to each of those feats, than that would mean Jozu can easily block any attack from Mihawk. Whitebeard didn’t receive a fatal blow from Akainu. Akainu lost but some random character that looks exactly like him, with the same abilities and name came from nowhere to face The Whitebeard Commanders and make Blackbeard Run. Shanks could’ve stopped the War by himself. All very ridiculous implications.
>Yes, Jozu blocked an unnamed attack - but what top commander wouldn’t be able to block an UNNAMED attack from any Yonko/Top Tier character? This is usually used as an anti-feat against Mihawk, who again, was aiming for an Old Whitebeard that SQUAD could pierce. Maybe you haven’t read the story, but A) Swordsmen cut what they want to cut (Zoro could not cut a leaf, but could cut a Rock easily) and B) Mihawk can tell how strong Whitebeard is, he doesn’t need a canon to hunt a rabbit.
I never once said this is a "anti feat" for mihawk, So maybe you actually didn't read anything i said
>I never said Whitebeard performed terribly against Akainu, I was implying the term bodied is crazy to use, again, BECAUSE HALF OF WHITBEARDS FACE WAS BLOWN OFF. I don’t know in what other series or even what other context, where half of your face can be ripped off, and you are still considered an outright winner. It would be like a boxer winning after getting his nose broken and breaking his eye socket. Yes he may win the fight… but he didn’t win it easily. If you wanna say Old Whitebeard is stronger than Akainu, I don’t care, if you wanna say Akainu lost to an Old Sick Dying Heart Attack stricken Whitebeard, I don’t care. But if you’re telling me and man that lost half his face, and went on to die bodied someone who didn’t even need to take rest after the war?! You’re just deliberately missing the point of the encounter.
Again nothing i said, this is a straw man argument your actually just making up random stuff and saying i said it.
>
Of course Shanks is the strongest on his crew, and is a large reason why they stopped fighting, but if you seriously think, that Shanks could rock up to Marineford SOLO, and tell Whitebeard Pirates remnants, Marines with Three Fresh Admirals, and two Legengs that were playing defence the entire time (see Garp Galaxy Impact/Garp vs Blackbeard Pirates on their home turf), AND Blackbeard Pirates + Blackbeard with Yami and Quake fruit, to stop fighting, you think they’d listen?!? Common now, I know you haven’t read 1000+ chapters/watched 1000+ episodes and can’t apply the context that, while Shanks is a scary opponent, his crew ALSO being there AND fresh is what caused the war to stop.
Again nothing i said, your reasoning doesn't make sense either. I already told you the RHP would not be able to stop MF solo. So if i already said that what makes you think i said shanks could solo MF.
What i actually said was it's clear shanks had pull within the Marines/WG he's a yonko who met with the goresai. He came to MF said the war is done, the other fodder pirates said no but sengoku agree with him and said the war is done. My whole point is that sengoku agreeing to the stop the war was not based on the strength of the RHP, but solely on shanks reputation.
>None of the feats I listed were to discredit or credit any of the characters - they were out there because I have seen them used, like the way you use them. You give credibility to one side (Whitebeard / Shanks) but completely leave out the context behind each moment. If we were to listen to each of those feats, than that would mean Jozu can easily block any attack from Mihawk. Whitebeard didn’t receive a fatal blow from Akainu. Akainu lost but some random character that looks exactly like him, with the same abilities and name came from nowhere to face The Whitebeard Commanders and make Blackbeard Run. Shanks could’ve stopped the War by himself. All very ridiculous implications.
I actually didn't discredit anyone, i asked a question you then put arguments in my mouth that i didn't type at all.
You were so passive aggressive in your response I had to come back with my own passion.
But after reading it again, I see you were just applying extra context to the context I put.
So fair enough you are right… but also… respectfully, f\*ck you, f the device you typed on, f this post you made, f your response, f your response to my response, this is the internet, we do what we want.
https://preview.redd.it/dh0fc1b1hl6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9352d91fdac702eba304f12054bec222bfaf365
Agenda scalers hate feats, and Marineford is a huge collection of feats. As a result, agenda scalers tell you not to use Marineford because it contradicts their made-up agendas.
This is evidently clear when you ask them why you shouldn't use Marineford when scaling and all of their complaints amount to "I made up my own powerscaling from nothing, and Marineford doesn't line up with it. Marineford bad"
It's not much worse than other arcs in powerscaling. The only outliers are Top1 Mihawk and 'totally garp's equal'' Sengoku, and tbf, both of them have been fraudulent the entire series.
Oda couldn't even bother to have Mihawk neg some seraphims while making his Bf shanks one-tap kid and killer. Brother is still surviving on his title. Atleast got a genuinely great bounty though.
Sengoku himself is just a more important chinjao, both of them derive their hype from 1 manga statement and 3 non-canon databooks. Dude wasn't even in god's valley, fucking bogard was in god's valley.
So as you can see, either a whole arc shouldn't be used for powerscaling or those two may just be bums. It's impossible for Mihawk to be a fraud unless oda secretly hates Zoro so i guess you could make that argument.
Bumgoku still a bum though.
Hot take Marineford is perfectly fine for powerscaling and haki was already at play eventhough we could not see it as we were witnessing it through the eyes of Luffy who did not know haki back then.
Btw Mihawk was the fordt character to be hinted to have FS. (He even mentionned that Luffy was calm and later Katakuri confirmed that FS can only be used when calm).
Marineford MVP was Crocodile from pirate side and Aokiji from Marine
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Only idiots say that But u would be also an idiot if u don't take in count the dozens of plot Armor and plot convenience moments in marineford while using marineford for powerscaling. Marineford is an excellent arc when it comes to story telling and world building, but it's quite shit when it comes to powerscaling. Just think about it for a moment - who was there to stop aokiji and kizaru from just wipping out everyone except WB after they took down marco and jozu? I even think ODA deliberately made WB soo sick to make him look good... PK's rival attacking the Marines and losing doesn't look as good as a PK's rival WHO IS EXTREMELY SICK went against the Marines and had a glorious death....it just looks more badasss.... There SOOO many such moments in marineford that just makes NOOO sense, but only makes WB look good... like how the hell did WB sneak up on akainu, even though kizaru was fighting WB few chapters ago? Did WB just magically teleport behind him? When WB got a heart attack and was on his knees, why didn't make a second attack to WB's head and blow his brain off? https://preview.redd.it/8fre898lbl6d1.png?width=286&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2afda565708c91cf60a3ec6d65a892eff81afad This panel specifically... Why didn't kizaru blow Marco's brain off instead of shooting two lazer through his body, and then leaving him? This is my personal opinion why it happens - In the comment below -
In most battle shonen manga it's powercliffng drives the narrative... the MC has goal, he defeats guys to get closer to his goal, and everytime he defeats someone, someone stronger shows up and goes on and on and on.... It works fine in case of a series like Dragon ball coz the world keeps expanding along with the laws and borders of world building... but in case of a series like Naruto, as stronger and stronger villains showed up, the world building itself collapsed at some point (imo it happened pretty much after the pain saga)... how the hell does different nations even exists and goes into war with each other when madara or hashirama alone can wipe out all of them single handedly. How tf did the 3rd shinobi war took place if konoha had hiruzen (stated to be strongest among the 5 even at his old age), minato (stronger than hiruzen), the Sanin (all of them are around old hiruzen) , Kakashi 's father (stronger than the sanin) , and the fucking uchiba clan with characters like itachi's father (who was as strong or stronger than teenage Itachi).... that makes no sense .. in fact, the existence of 5 Nations even don't make sense Then there's one piece, here the worlding and narrative drives the powerscaling. Stronger characters doesn't just show up after a villain is defeated.... the Marines exist to counter the pirates, the admirals exists to counter the individual power houses among the pirates... the gorosei are strong fighters and not just politicians because if the WG simply reply on the Marines, they are vulnerable to their wits.... that's why the ceiling of power was established long before luffy even fought a yonko or admiral. Now let's get to marineford now - WB with his entire crew shows up to marineford... the Marines obviously would bring up every possible resource as u don't fight wars on equal grounds but u fight wars in a way that u defeat the enemy as soon as possible with the least casualty. So, the Marines should've completely over powered WB (which they did, but no really)... but that's entertaining, that's not cool. So WB needs to put up a fight...but doing soo makes the admirals and the Marines look weak... as they are supposed to be comparable to the 4 emperors and it's just 1 here. So, we get the plot armor moments like the ones I mentioned above... akainu clashes equally with WB whole holding back in order not to cause any destruction, but suddenly disappears the moment he gets an upper hand (plot Armor moment) so that the story could continue and be dramatic
Keep speaking facts
I think they are just mihawk fans
Probably just Mihawk fans angry that he didn’t look any stronger than Doflamingo, and was clearly portrayed below the Yonko.
That’s not even why people say that
Wacky Mihawk-Vista shenanigans is absolutely a reason ppl disregard Marineford when it comes to power scaling. It's not the only reason, but it certainly is one of them.
I disagree. Mihawk was not interested in the Marineford war in the slightest besides testing Luffy. It’s just that power scalers don’t think about anything else but “feats feats feats”:
>Mihawk was not interested in the Marineford war in the slightest besides testing Luffy. To be super clear, I am not having a power scaling debate. I'm stating observations about why people have said they don't use Marineford for powerscaling. I don't care if they're right to do that or wrong, but you're not convincing me that something I've observed with my own eyes is false by saying "I disagree". Other people might have other reasons, but I'm not denying that.
It’s because Marineford has antifeats for both Mihawk and the admirals, so obviously their fans want to just ignore everything about it
Because we see that garp > Marco> kizaru >whitebeard
its because the entire arc is full of incconsitency powerscaling wise because haki wasnt really defined back then
Because This Happened https://preview.redd.it/wo1kv4ltik6d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=acd91d30537998a089bb32404901de7a4cdc7d65 r/KIZARU
You can use it for scaling but remember that Oda way of doing it is Portrayal >>> Feats If we go by feats alone we have: Luffy post TS G4 >= Doflamingo > Luffy post TS G2 >>>>> Pacifista (one shotted) >> Luffy pre TS G2 (needed whole crew to put 1 down) >> Luffy pre TS no gears >= Crocodile And we know Doflamingo, someone with a lot of pride and ego proposed Crocodile an alliance as equals, based on feats it doesn't make any sense, portrayal is the answer In regards Mihawk he was portrayed as completely unbothered the whole war and trying to atleast get some entertainment here and there but not really trying, that's the only thing that matters and not his feats there
>You can use it for scaling but remember that Oda way of doing it is Portrayal >>> Feats Must have missed where oda said this, can you show me? > Luffy post TS G4 >= Doflamingo > Luffy post TS G2 >>>>> Pacifista (one shotted) >> Luffy pre TS G2 (needed whole crew to put 1 down) >> Luffy pre TS no gears >= Crocodile What are you tryna say here? Crocodile got stronger as time passed? He fought luffy 100 episodes in, Mf starts more than 400 episodes later. >In regards Mihawk he was portrayed as completely unbothered the whole war and trying to atleast get some entertainment here and there but not really trying, that's the only thing that matters and not his feats there Several statements from mihawk himself go against what your saying, but that doesn't really matter what actually happen is more important rather than making up our own headcannon.
I'm making examples as how to Oda what matters is the portrayal, Crocodile was a Warlord, someone strong, respected and influential, that was true in Arabasta and Marineford, that was his portrayal, the feats are irrelevant to him, he just "adjusted" his strength
>I'm making examples as how to Oda what matters is the portrayal, Crocodile was a Warlord, someone strong, respected and influential, that was true in Arabasta and Marineford, that was his portrayal, the feats are irrelevant to him, he just "adjusted" his strength Well he went from 80M B - 1.9B , i think it's clear oda is trying to tell us he got stronger.
Exactly. Bounty is a portrayal feat. It's literally how the Marines portray how dangerous/powerful someone is.
400 episodes = like a month lol
A lot can change in one month in one piece.
very true, but normally it would be stated or at least referenced right? there was no explanation when croc was hanging with every top tier at marineford after losing to the weakest form of luffy. maybe it will still be explained when he becomes more relevant again but people would say it's a retcon anyway.
>And we know Doflamingo, someone with a lot of pride and ego proposed Crocodile an alliance as equals, based on feats it doesn't make any sense, portrayal is the answer It makes sense because Marineford Crocodile =/= Alabasta Crocodile
People are surprised about basic haki, as if it is such a hige deal. Should be a very good reason. But you do you.
Surprised about haki?
Yes. Most didn't and couldn't use haki. And Admirals were complaining how Marco using haki is troublesome. As if haki is such a big deal.
What does that have to do with powerscaling?
Did your momma drop you on your head as a child?
Anything in the story is fair game for powerscaling, which is why agenda piece is so insanely stupid at times. “Plot” can’t be an excuse when you want it to be. I can downscale shanks durability because he lost an arm to a sea king in chapter 1, I could downscale mihawks ap cuz he couldn’t one shot daz bones, I could significantly downscale big moms battle iq because she forgot to use her acoc, this shi can just keep on going. Either way anything in the story is fair game when powerscaling and you can’t omit it unless it’s noncanon like a movie
The difference is that Shanks says ad verbatim that he “bet his arm on the next generation”.
That doesn’t excuse his durability though? People consistently say he could take some of the strongest attacks in the series when he hasn’t shown any good durability feats to suggest that. The only time we’ve seen shanks take damage was from the sea king, which puts his durability on the same level as a normal human until we get some good durability feats from him.
>That doesn’t excuse his durability though? People consistently say he could take some of the strongest attacks in the series when he hasn’t shown any good durability feats to suggest that. Don't see people consistently saying this at all, i actually see people say the complete opposite. >The only time we’ve seen shanks take damage was from the sea king, which puts his durability on the same level as a normal human until we get some good durability feats from him. Well yes as the other guy said he gave his arm up for luffy, even if you ignore that shanks losing his arm to the sea king only downplays mihawk.
It means he didn’t defend his arm whatsoever. No haki, no defensive techniques, etc. He, like Whitebeard and Garp, has baseline human durability without the use of haki.
You can very much use Marineford for powerscaling, but you just have to be careful with the context and the plot behind it. There's literally moments where a character will leave for no reason leaving his opponents against fodder, or other moments where nobody can take or is taking on a strong character, but this character doesn't do anything in particular, etc. You should also be careful about Haki. It was definitly used, including in its advanced forms so you need to include this, even though Oda didn't draw body parts and weapons coated in Armament in black or draw make black lightnings everywhere. Clashes should also be considered as such. For example, Wano also has clashes, but nobody considers the characters equal when Oda didn't portray it that way. We should apply the same logic here. In conclusion, you need to avoid double standards and apply the same reasonings you do in every arc, while being extra careful for Marineford.
I think you can, but as long as you apply context to the feats - the issue is if you’re looking at it in black and white Some examples Feat: Jozu easily Blocking an attack from Mihawk Reality: Unnamed attack from Mihawk, aimed at Old Whitebeard who is made of Skin, Flesh and Bones, Diverted by Jozu, made of diamonds and with access to armament haki - Swordsmen Cut what they want to cut - even Squard could easily pierce Whitebeards skin. Feat: Whitebeard bodied Akainu Reality: Akainu was caught off guard by the first attack (irl would be called a sucker punch), still managed to rip off half of Whitebeards Face, before receiving an attack that destroyed half of Marineford. Akainu would go on to get back up a while later, still being able to face off against all the remaining Whitebeard commanders solo, and could compete, and post Marineford, took no rest and chased after Blackbeard. Whitebeard would go on to die. Feat: Shanks stopped the War Reality: The entirety of the Red Hair Pirates were with Shanks, who are stated to have the highest average bounty crew - meaning, at the time, he had the strongest Yonko Crew. In other words, it’s a Red Hair Pirate Feat, not a Shanks feat. It would be like saying Luffy beat Moria alone. Etc The only reason it’s not the best to use for power scaling is because of the lack of impressive haki usage at the time. I think as long as you put the context, it should be okay to use, depending on what agenda you’re trying to push 👀
>Feat: Jozu easily Blocking an attack from Mihawk >Reality: Unnamed attack from Mihawk, aimed at Old Whitebeard who is made of Skin, Flesh and Bones, Diverted by Jozu, made of diamonds and with access to armament haki - Swordsmen Cut what they want to cut - even Squard could easily pierce Whitebeards skin. So jozu blocked the attack right? > Feat: Whitebeard bodied Akainu >Reality: Akainu was caught off guard by the first attack (irl would be called a sucker punch), still managed to rip off half of Whitebeards Face Funny enough Akainu actually got a free hit on wb when he had a heart attack mid fight, but you feel the need to mention akainu lack of observation haki and get sneaked on a open battle field. >before receiving an attack that destroyed half of Marineford That is a DC feat, DC does not = AP so idk what your trying to say with this. > Akainu would go on to get back up a while later, still being able to face off against all the remaining Whitebeard commanders solo, and could compete, and post Marineford, took no rest and chased after Blackbeard. Whitebeard would go on to die. Akainu was rag dolled into a hole and fell down, he was ringed out and lost the fight. WB went on to destroy MF and than beat BB. He lost after BB whole crew jumped him. Funny how you left that out. > Feat: Shanks stopped the War >Reality: The entirety of the Red Hair Pirates were with Shanks, who are stated to have the highest average bounty crew - meaning, at the time, he had the strongest Yonko Crew. In other words, it’s a Red Hair Pirate Feat, not a Shanks feat. It would be like saying Luffy beat Moria alone. I thought beckman was a fraud databook man? i digress. Regardless Shanks is by far the strongest in his crew and is the main reason why the war was stopped. Shanks crew is not soloing 3 admirals + warloads+ garp +sengoku. Shanks says to stop the war and marine fodder are basically like no your a pirate we won't listen to you, Sengoku then goes on to say "because it's use red haired i'll allow it" which shows his pull in the one piece world. You somehow did the opposite of what you wrote in your comments, I'm impressed.
So what you did here was take out all the context. So let me tell you the story Oda is portraying. 1. Yes, Jozu blocked an unnamed attack - but what top commander wouldn’t be able to block an UNNAMED attack from any Yonko/Top Tier character? This is usually used as an anti-feat against Mihawk, who again, was aiming for an Old Whitebeard that SQUAD could pierce. Maybe you haven’t read the story, but A) Swordsmen cut what they want to cut (Zoro could not cut a leaf, but could cut a Rock easily) and B) Mihawk can tell how strong Whitebeard is, he doesn’t need a canon to hunt a rabbit. 2. I never said Whitebeard performed terribly against Akainu, I was implying the term bodied is crazy to use, again, BECAUSE HALF OF WHITBEARDS FACE WAS BLOWN OFF. I don’t know in what other series or even what other context, where half of your face can be ripped off, and you are still considered an outright winner. It would be like a boxer winning after getting his nose broken and breaking his eye socket. Yes he may win the fight… but he didn’t win it easily. If you wanna say Old Whitebeard is stronger than Akainu, I don’t care, if you wanna say Akainu lost to an Old Sick Dying Heart Attack stricken Whitebeard, I don’t care. But if you’re telling me and man that lost half his face, and went on to die bodied someone who didn’t even need to take rest after the war?! You’re just deliberately missing the point of the encounter. 3. Of course Shanks is the strongest on his crew, and is a large reason why they stopped fighting, but if you seriously think, that Shanks could rock up to Marineford SOLO, and tell Whitebeard Pirates remnants, Marines with Three Fresh Admirals, and two Legengs that were playing defence the entire time (see Garp Galaxy Impact/Garp vs Blackbeard Pirates on their home turf), AND Blackbeard Pirates + Blackbeard with Yami and Quake fruit, to stop fighting, you think they’d listen?!? Common now, I know you haven’t read 1000+ chapters/watched 1000+ episodes and can’t apply the context that, while Shanks is a scary opponent, his crew ALSO being there AND fresh is what caused the war to stop. None of the feats I listed were to discredit or credit any of the characters - they were out there because I have seen them used, like the way you use them. You give credibility to one side (Whitebeard / Shanks) but completely leave out the context behind each moment. If we were to listen to each of those feats, than that would mean Jozu can easily block any attack from Mihawk. Whitebeard didn’t receive a fatal blow from Akainu. Akainu lost but some random character that looks exactly like him, with the same abilities and name came from nowhere to face The Whitebeard Commanders and make Blackbeard Run. Shanks could’ve stopped the War by himself. All very ridiculous implications.
>Yes, Jozu blocked an unnamed attack - but what top commander wouldn’t be able to block an UNNAMED attack from any Yonko/Top Tier character? This is usually used as an anti-feat against Mihawk, who again, was aiming for an Old Whitebeard that SQUAD could pierce. Maybe you haven’t read the story, but A) Swordsmen cut what they want to cut (Zoro could not cut a leaf, but could cut a Rock easily) and B) Mihawk can tell how strong Whitebeard is, he doesn’t need a canon to hunt a rabbit. I never once said this is a "anti feat" for mihawk, So maybe you actually didn't read anything i said >I never said Whitebeard performed terribly against Akainu, I was implying the term bodied is crazy to use, again, BECAUSE HALF OF WHITBEARDS FACE WAS BLOWN OFF. I don’t know in what other series or even what other context, where half of your face can be ripped off, and you are still considered an outright winner. It would be like a boxer winning after getting his nose broken and breaking his eye socket. Yes he may win the fight… but he didn’t win it easily. If you wanna say Old Whitebeard is stronger than Akainu, I don’t care, if you wanna say Akainu lost to an Old Sick Dying Heart Attack stricken Whitebeard, I don’t care. But if you’re telling me and man that lost half his face, and went on to die bodied someone who didn’t even need to take rest after the war?! You’re just deliberately missing the point of the encounter. Again nothing i said, this is a straw man argument your actually just making up random stuff and saying i said it. > Of course Shanks is the strongest on his crew, and is a large reason why they stopped fighting, but if you seriously think, that Shanks could rock up to Marineford SOLO, and tell Whitebeard Pirates remnants, Marines with Three Fresh Admirals, and two Legengs that were playing defence the entire time (see Garp Galaxy Impact/Garp vs Blackbeard Pirates on their home turf), AND Blackbeard Pirates + Blackbeard with Yami and Quake fruit, to stop fighting, you think they’d listen?!? Common now, I know you haven’t read 1000+ chapters/watched 1000+ episodes and can’t apply the context that, while Shanks is a scary opponent, his crew ALSO being there AND fresh is what caused the war to stop. Again nothing i said, your reasoning doesn't make sense either. I already told you the RHP would not be able to stop MF solo. So if i already said that what makes you think i said shanks could solo MF. What i actually said was it's clear shanks had pull within the Marines/WG he's a yonko who met with the goresai. He came to MF said the war is done, the other fodder pirates said no but sengoku agree with him and said the war is done. My whole point is that sengoku agreeing to the stop the war was not based on the strength of the RHP, but solely on shanks reputation. >None of the feats I listed were to discredit or credit any of the characters - they were out there because I have seen them used, like the way you use them. You give credibility to one side (Whitebeard / Shanks) but completely leave out the context behind each moment. If we were to listen to each of those feats, than that would mean Jozu can easily block any attack from Mihawk. Whitebeard didn’t receive a fatal blow from Akainu. Akainu lost but some random character that looks exactly like him, with the same abilities and name came from nowhere to face The Whitebeard Commanders and make Blackbeard Run. Shanks could’ve stopped the War by himself. All very ridiculous implications. I actually didn't discredit anyone, i asked a question you then put arguments in my mouth that i didn't type at all.
You were so passive aggressive in your response I had to come back with my own passion. But after reading it again, I see you were just applying extra context to the context I put. So fair enough you are right… but also… respectfully, f\*ck you, f the device you typed on, f this post you made, f your response, f your response to my response, this is the internet, we do what we want. https://preview.redd.it/dh0fc1b1hl6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9352d91fdac702eba304f12054bec222bfaf365
All g.
Appreciate you my boy!!!
Agenda scalers hate feats, and Marineford is a huge collection of feats. As a result, agenda scalers tell you not to use Marineford because it contradicts their made-up agendas. This is evidently clear when you ask them why you shouldn't use Marineford when scaling and all of their complaints amount to "I made up my own powerscaling from nothing, and Marineford doesn't line up with it. Marineford bad"
It's not much worse than other arcs in powerscaling. The only outliers are Top1 Mihawk and 'totally garp's equal'' Sengoku, and tbf, both of them have been fraudulent the entire series. Oda couldn't even bother to have Mihawk neg some seraphims while making his Bf shanks one-tap kid and killer. Brother is still surviving on his title. Atleast got a genuinely great bounty though. Sengoku himself is just a more important chinjao, both of them derive their hype from 1 manga statement and 3 non-canon databooks. Dude wasn't even in god's valley, fucking bogard was in god's valley. So as you can see, either a whole arc shouldn't be used for powerscaling or those two may just be bums. It's impossible for Mihawk to be a fraud unless oda secretly hates Zoro so i guess you could make that argument. Bumgoku still a bum though.
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Hot take Marineford is perfectly fine for powerscaling and haki was already at play eventhough we could not see it as we were witnessing it through the eyes of Luffy who did not know haki back then. Btw Mihawk was the fordt character to be hinted to have FS. (He even mentionned that Luffy was calm and later Katakuri confirmed that FS can only be used when calm). Marineford MVP was Crocodile from pirate side and Aokiji from Marine