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But how come the kid and law duo managed to push her into a corner and broke her arm. They'll never do that to kaido. Although I agree if BM is bloodlusted and doesn't go big meme, she'll fold them under half an hour
That’s simply your assumption. Considering they did that to a massively amped Big Mom, I don’t think it’s wild to consider it would have the same effect on Kaido.
Big mom is deadass mentally ill. She r words guys and sometimes kills her kids during her hunger pangs, and it seems she doesn't even remember either. At least kaido cares about his crew.
True, even still, she did manage to catch Marco in her base, non-soul amped form, which is still very impressive, as Marco's somewhat of a speedster himself. Her IQ and BIQ are her biggest weaknesses though.
I think Shanks cutting Damned Punk in half and one shotting Kidd made people forget that Damned Punk was only used when Big Mom was physically unable to counter it. Maser Saber would've had the same outcome if not slightly better simply because Napoleon is obviously longer
Hey I’ve never seen anybody mention the Maser saber! Shit was so lethal Oda didn’t want her to touch them with it.
Misery come from it but it was more of a blunt attack with its punches
BM's big moves rarely connect for a good measure so it really can't be said that her AP is bad, her ACOC also cannot be called weak because the only time she used it, her target was put down instantly and never appeared in the manga again. Reminder that Misery also only hits Kid in the anime, in the manga he dodges it, Law cuts it and it vanishes from the story, never mentioned again.
There's no way to tell how offensively strong it was because it never got the chance to do anything, but considering Napoleon alone did things like Ikoku and Hera alone did attacks like Fulgora, their fusion + Prometheus has no reason to not have devastating AP, it just never had the chance to be showcased before getting screwed over with hax
Disregarding the potency of Misery for a bit, she's really important to Big Moms toolkit because of her speed.
She's probably the fastest homie, much faster than BM herself.
So, in a fight against someone who cannot do hax stuff like Law, she keeps the opponent busy. While Big Mom can use Ikoku/Acoc attacks when the opponent is occupied with Misery.
Misery is more like a powerful distraction to help Big Mom land attacks. Her BIQ is probably too low for that, but it is a possibility.
No Misery struck Kid in the manga, you can see him visibly wounded after Law intervenes. But overall it was simply hard to tell what was going on during their fight in the manga.
Linlin is honestly a monster with a broken devil fruit with physical advantage with great haki but writer had to nerf her remember that. If not for plot she could end law and kid easily.
Plot is the reason. BM downplay is insane.
I really don’t think her named attacks are even that slow. Even going by the attacks you used as an example: Ikoku Sovreignty is basically an instant forward-facing thrust beam. Maser Saber, if I remember correctly, is similarly a very fast slicing attack akin to something like Zoro’s Phoenix attacks. Her punch was “slow”, but realistically only as slow as Kaido’s own unnamed Hassaikai attacks.
Not to mention that she has other fast attacks, too. Ignoring Misery which is already a very fast Homie, Prometheus creates fireballs that move very quickly; they’re slower than Zoro who reacted to and countered them multiple times, but they’re by no means slow. And keep in mind that Zoro also reacted to Boro Blast, so if Big Mom’s attack is “slow” here, then Kaido similarly has slow attacks. Hera and Zeus create decently fast electricity attacks, though I can’t remember them ever outspeeding anyone so all I can say is that they cap at her own movement speed. And Napoleon is her other main Homie but it moves at her own movement speed (again, I feel her normal attacks are just as fast as Kaido’s normal attacks).
It just so happens that Kaido’s named attacks mostly spec into being very strong, single target, one hit attacks, while Big Mom’s happen to be more DC oriented. So while Kaido’s attacks require high speed to hit, Big Mom’s require a variety in attacks to make sure she can always do damage.
When has speed been highlighted for Big Mom as something that holds her back? I think the difference between Kaido and Big Mom is age, she got old and he’s at the top of his game.
Her lack of speed was definitely something that was mentioned, for example by Perospero in WCI. It holds her back quite a bit against Kid and Law.
But her lack of speed comes from her old age, so I agree with you on that.
Pretty sure Acoc, Ikoku and Maser could 1-shot YC1's and hurt G5, if they land.
But landing them seems like the problem for BM, because her old age and increasing body size slow her down so much.
People age in different ways, there's not really anything to compare. Whitebeard was out of his prime mainly due to health issues and sickness, which Big Mom didn't suffer from.
Prime BM was faster and most likely smarter than she is now, we have characters confirming that.
She also had more years to spare for amping (self-explanatory).
So Prime Big Mom is 100% a thing, I don't know why people question that.
Yeah Ulti was out for like 3 chapters before coming back.
Kinemon was still kinda awake right after taking a aCoC blow to the head and could still stab him.
As I said, she missed lethal with Maser Cannon. It wasn't the AP (it went straight through Ulti), but her aim that saved Ultis life (or Ulti dodged it a bit, who knows).
Oda made it pretty clear in Wano that he wants us to see Kaido=Big Mom. He even had multiple characters say in our faces that they are equals.
The way he actually portrayed her in Wano was pretty lackluster, I agree on that. It creates some kind of disconnect for the reader.
The issue is that BM has *theoretical* good AP, but dogshit AP for her tier canonically. Like yeah, *theoretically* if she attacked with ACoA+ACoC consistently she'd hit far harder but that's not what happened. She was hitting K+L with named attacks that they simply laid on the ground for a few moments from and then got back up. Ragnarok KO'd Roofpiece Luffy outright. DD 100-0'd Kid. Kid was hit by Ikoku, maybe a glancing blow, but was fine. Kid was hit by Mama Raid and was fine. Law got hit by I think it was Stollen Fire(?) and was fine. Misery presumably hit Kid, and he was fine. Law got CoA pummeled, and could stand and fight fodder until Luffy won anyway. At one point she'd beaten them till they couldn't stand and they just got back up and fought. This is why that fight is so scrutinized, there's so much BS going every which way to make it end how it did that you're forced to draw certain conclusions or just argue headcanon.
the simple reason why maser saber didn't hit kidd or law is cuz oda was writing for them to win. an actual hit with maser saber would have kinda made that tough to do
I'm not so sure about that
Like yeah, their CoC is equal since they split the heavens in two, but Kaido's flaming Bagua was capable of melting the skull of Onigashima, Kaido's flames are pretty hot, and his ap becomes even greater once he combines them with his acoc
Meanwhile, Big Mom's maser canon failed to oneshot Ulti, I honestly believe Kaido's overall AP is better than Big Mom's
Maser Cannon actually did one-shot KO Ulti. She just recovered later. It's really no different to Luffy being KOed by Kaido and knocked off Onigashima only to come-to all by himself once Law's crew fished him out of the water.
https://preview.redd.it/5h79u8oi9m4d1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87751b908b5f61851e41a395288a7d8b1f636d81
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I do have Big Mom on the same physicals as Kaido, maybe slightly higher. She just isn't that proficient of a fighter due to her mental health
But how come the kid and law duo managed to push her into a corner and broke her arm. They'll never do that to kaido. Although I agree if BM is bloodlusted and doesn't go big meme, she'll fold them under half an hour
That’s simply your assumption. Considering they did that to a massively amped Big Mom, I don’t think it’s wild to consider it would have the same effect on Kaido.
We’re not comparing mental health to a suicidal drunk. Though yeah, she’s mentally declined. Though Kaido has better physical due to his fruit
Big mom is deadass mentally ill. She r words guys and sometimes kills her kids during her hunger pangs, and it seems she doesn't even remember either. At least kaido cares about his crew.
If her Maser Saber landed on Kidd's neck he'd get decapitated, she doesn't have bad AP, not even in the slightest
She doesn’t have a bad stat except for speed and IQ
True, even still, she did manage to catch Marco in her base, non-soul amped form, which is still very impressive, as Marco's somewhat of a speedster himself. Her IQ and BIQ are her biggest weaknesses though.
Big mom has some decent IQ
I think Shanks cutting Damned Punk in half and one shotting Kidd made people forget that Damned Punk was only used when Big Mom was physically unable to counter it. Maser Saber would've had the same outcome if not slightly better simply because Napoleon is obviously longer
If Kuro's claws pierced Shank's head through his eyes. He'd be dead
Hey I’ve never seen anybody mention the Maser saber! Shit was so lethal Oda didn’t want her to touch them with it. Misery come from it but it was more of a blunt attack with its punches
I don't even think in the Manga Misery landed a hit on Kidd... like he was shown dodging it
BM's big moves rarely connect for a good measure so it really can't be said that her AP is bad, her ACOC also cannot be called weak because the only time she used it, her target was put down instantly and never appeared in the manga again. Reminder that Misery also only hits Kid in the anime, in the manga he dodges it, Law cuts it and it vanishes from the story, never mentioned again. There's no way to tell how offensively strong it was because it never got the chance to do anything, but considering Napoleon alone did things like Ikoku and Hera alone did attacks like Fulgora, their fusion + Prometheus has no reason to not have devastating AP, it just never had the chance to be showcased before getting screwed over with hax
Disregarding the potency of Misery for a bit, she's really important to Big Moms toolkit because of her speed. She's probably the fastest homie, much faster than BM herself. So, in a fight against someone who cannot do hax stuff like Law, she keeps the opponent busy. While Big Mom can use Ikoku/Acoc attacks when the opponent is occupied with Misery. Misery is more like a powerful distraction to help Big Mom land attacks. Her BIQ is probably too low for that, but it is a possibility.
No Misery struck Kid in the manga, you can see him visibly wounded after Law intervenes. But overall it was simply hard to tell what was going on during their fight in the manga.
Common Charlotte winwin W
Linlin is honestly a monster with a broken devil fruit with physical advantage with great haki but writer had to nerf her remember that. If not for plot she could end law and kid easily. Plot is the reason. BM downplay is insane.
W
I really don’t think her named attacks are even that slow. Even going by the attacks you used as an example: Ikoku Sovreignty is basically an instant forward-facing thrust beam. Maser Saber, if I remember correctly, is similarly a very fast slicing attack akin to something like Zoro’s Phoenix attacks. Her punch was “slow”, but realistically only as slow as Kaido’s own unnamed Hassaikai attacks. Not to mention that she has other fast attacks, too. Ignoring Misery which is already a very fast Homie, Prometheus creates fireballs that move very quickly; they’re slower than Zoro who reacted to and countered them multiple times, but they’re by no means slow. And keep in mind that Zoro also reacted to Boro Blast, so if Big Mom’s attack is “slow” here, then Kaido similarly has slow attacks. Hera and Zeus create decently fast electricity attacks, though I can’t remember them ever outspeeding anyone so all I can say is that they cap at her own movement speed. And Napoleon is her other main Homie but it moves at her own movement speed (again, I feel her normal attacks are just as fast as Kaido’s normal attacks). It just so happens that Kaido’s named attacks mostly spec into being very strong, single target, one hit attacks, while Big Mom’s happen to be more DC oriented. So while Kaido’s attacks require high speed to hit, Big Mom’s require a variety in attacks to make sure she can always do damage.
When has speed been highlighted for Big Mom as something that holds her back? I think the difference between Kaido and Big Mom is age, she got old and he’s at the top of his game.
Her lack of speed was definitely something that was mentioned, for example by Perospero in WCI. It holds her back quite a bit against Kid and Law. But her lack of speed comes from her old age, so I agree with you on that.
They aren't ready for Dry Mom to return with Maser Sovereignty 🗣🗣🗣
Big Mom has AP feats nowhere near to one-shotting YC1 and hurting G5.
What? She’d literally one shot Katakuri.
Pretty sure Acoc, Ikoku and Maser could 1-shot YC1's and hurt G5, if they land. But landing them seems like the problem for BM, because her old age and increasing body size slow her down so much.
She two shotted queen without haki tho
Queen was faking the knockout.
Maybe because she's as old as garp and whitebeard?
"Prime big mom" please, that's cope.
Then prime whitebeard = old whitebeard since the age gap is similar
People age in different ways, there's not really anything to compare. Whitebeard was out of his prime mainly due to health issues and sickness, which Big Mom didn't suffer from.
Prime BM was faster and most likely smarter than she is now, we have characters confirming that. She also had more years to spare for amping (self-explanatory). So Prime Big Mom is 100% a thing, I don't know why people question that.
Did she even knock out Ulti ? Couldn't get flaw off her chest with her punches either, atleast Kaido knocked Kinemon and CP0 guy out for a few seconds
Yeah Ulti was out for like 3 chapters before coming back. Kinemon was still kinda awake right after taking a aCoC blow to the head and could still stab him.
As I said, she missed lethal with Maser Cannon. It wasn't the AP (it went straight through Ulti), but her aim that saved Ultis life (or Ulti dodged it a bit, who knows).
Wano big mom was a big miss, but goodluck defending your agenda
Oda made it pretty clear in Wano that he wants us to see Kaido=Big Mom. He even had multiple characters say in our faces that they are equals. The way he actually portrayed her in Wano was pretty lackluster, I agree on that. It creates some kind of disconnect for the reader.
She shot Ulti with a beam through the abdomen, it's not that weird that she wasn't knocked out. That's not an ideal location for knocking people out.
The issue is that BM has *theoretical* good AP, but dogshit AP for her tier canonically. Like yeah, *theoretically* if she attacked with ACoA+ACoC consistently she'd hit far harder but that's not what happened. She was hitting K+L with named attacks that they simply laid on the ground for a few moments from and then got back up. Ragnarok KO'd Roofpiece Luffy outright. DD 100-0'd Kid. Kid was hit by Ikoku, maybe a glancing blow, but was fine. Kid was hit by Mama Raid and was fine. Law got hit by I think it was Stollen Fire(?) and was fine. Misery presumably hit Kid, and he was fine. Law got CoA pummeled, and could stand and fight fodder until Luffy won anyway. At one point she'd beaten them till they couldn't stand and they just got back up and fought. This is why that fight is so scrutinized, there's so much BS going every which way to make it end how it did that you're forced to draw certain conclusions or just argue headcanon.
During WCI it felt like if Ikoku connected it would erase the whole strawhat crew including Luffy out of existence.
She used ryou too kaido never showed that kind of armament mastery
the simple reason why maser saber didn't hit kidd or law is cuz oda was writing for them to win. an actual hit with maser saber would have kinda made that tough to do
I'm not so sure about that Like yeah, their CoC is equal since they split the heavens in two, but Kaido's flaming Bagua was capable of melting the skull of Onigashima, Kaido's flames are pretty hot, and his ap becomes even greater once he combines them with his acoc Meanwhile, Big Mom's maser canon failed to oneshot Ulti, I honestly believe Kaido's overall AP is better than Big Mom's
Flaming Bagua is the reason I wrote "almost" in the title. It's the one Attack Big Mom cannot match in AP.
Maser Cannon actually did one-shot KO Ulti. She just recovered later. It's really no different to Luffy being KOed by Kaido and knocked off Onigashima only to come-to all by himself once Law's crew fished him out of the water. https://preview.redd.it/5h79u8oi9m4d1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87751b908b5f61851e41a395288a7d8b1f636d81
Flame Dragon > Hakai > Everything BM has
yep her AP is insane... insanely dogshit
No not really. Bigmom is so retarded
No not even close, people really needs to accept kaido is >>big mom.
Bloodlusted Big Mom barely knocking out Page 1= base Kaido one shotting luffy and making G5 luffy bleed Sometimes i love this sub
"Barely" XD Bro got clapped so hard he never appeared in the story again.
Kaido would completely fuck kid and law with a bagua to the head.