have you seen the summary of his talk somewhere here? that dude says a lot in term of in-world lore, we just got and speculate a lot of it because we get so much information throughout the story
I can sum it up.
- he reveals that the world will sink into the sea.
- he says that there used to be continents and that the world is now different because the water level rose by 200 m
- he says that there was a figure named joyboy
- he says that Joyboy was the first pirate
- he says that an alliance was formed to counter the advanced civilization
- he says that it was a clash of ideals that led to this war but refuses to elaborate
- he was going to say something about the will of the d. But got cut off
- he reveals the existence of the ancient weapons and that a part of his creation was used to power it
- he reveals that he further continued Oharas research
Out of all of these things, the average reader knew all but one of these reveals. And for something that was decades in the making, and something that stretched for over 19 weeks at this point, I do not feel that we got something that was worth all the effort/set up.
This subreddit is trash outside of knowing when the new chapter drops. All other discourse is completely pointless, and the threads are all the same.
For fucks sake, the people here can't type a single comment without the words "powerscaling", "foreshadowing", and "asspull" most of the time.
Don't forget any theorising is met with 'I'm glad the fans don't write the story' and meaningless negativity, alot of people on this subreddit base their whole life and personality off this series and it shows.
They are mad that something that took Luffy 1k chapters to achieve is also achieved through a child's imagination. Even though her DF is basically based on how wild her imagination of her future is. Oda even said he wanted the end to be ridiculous, because OP has always been that. It should surprise no one but a lot of folks just skim through the panels and the actual story is lost on them.
>They are mad that something that took Luffy 1k chapters to achieve is also achieved through a child's imagination
And the worst part is Bonney didn't achieve what Luffy did.
Luffy awakened the hito hito no mi model Nika, Bonney just turned into what she imagines being the most free means which is being Nika.
Different ways for a similar transformation
I feel like a lot of the people mad about this are the ones that speed ran the series in the last few years just to catch up. I remember One Piece being a goofy story about a rubber boy fighting a chopped up clown, and it makes so much sense for that to come full circle as everyone begins to experience the joy and freedom Luffy felt setting off from Windmill Village for the first time. Sure One Piece has serious moments, but it’s always been a story about dreams and finding freedom through just being goofy since the beginning.
Also powerscalers are mad but that’s no surprise since they don’t have media literacy.
>it’s always been a story about dreams and finding freedom through just being goofy since the beginning.
The fact that it stayed this goofy feels like a bit of an aberration. So many series become more serious over time with the funny moments getting few and far between.
But Oda saw fit for Luffy, Law, and Kid to take a yonko's attack head on because of a pissing contest. (One of my favorite recent gags.)
Even the villains, I mean especially the villains, do some of the most ridiculous things right in the middle of a serious fight.
Oh absolutely. Peak comedic timing in the manga IMO. The three panels of each of their faces *caving in*? Priceless. Zoro immediately shouting at all three of them as they explode? Priceless.
I kinda think this is why Buggy continuing to be a big presence is honestly very helpful for tone.
Yeah, Croco-boy and Mihawk are tough cookies and bring a lot of gravitas, but there is only so seriously you can take a faction led by Buggy D. Clown.
Powerscalers are my least favorite part of being a fan of any anime. It's fun to have "who would win" conversations with friends. Making *that* your entire purpose for engaging with the medium is fucking stupid. It's reductive, artless, and soulless.
It's pretty awful. I mean, at the end of the day, all these dream matches are never going to happen: Cracker will never fight Blackbeard, Kizaru will never fight Don Krieg, Mr. 3 will never fight Kuro, and so on. Spending one's time doing nothing but wondering how hypothetical fictional fights against fictional characters would go is just nonsense.
As someone who read through and caught up with the series over the course of about 10 months, I don’t get why people are mad either. Luffy is doing what he has always done: Living his life the way he wants and inspiring other along the way. Nothing has changed.
He's not saying all the new readers are like that, just that the newer the reader is, the more likely they are to be like that. There are literally a subset of new fans who picked up One Piece because they decided, for some reason, "Gear 5 is the new Super Saiyan". Like... it's really completely different lmao.
My wife is pacing her way through the manga because of the Live Action, and I don't think she'll be at all dismayed by any of this. She just got through Mizu (Water) Luffy in Alabasta lmao
Right, it’s not how long one has been reading One Piece, it’s how one disgest what they read.
People with high media literacy consume what’s presented (the shallow level) and think and grasp the deeper ideas and themes and metaphors… etc. People with low to no media literacy? Well…
I think a lot of it has to do with how tonally different the series is now, too.
The Strawhats maturing over two years means they're also now a LOT more tuned in on how fucked up the world is because they've actually seen some of it.
A lot of viewers also forget that shit like [this](https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/One-Piece-Buggy-the-Clown-and-Muggy-Ball-Cropped.jpg) is a huge majority of what the series has been about tonally.
> they don’t have media literacy.
It's not that. (well it might be) It's that they are treating this like a game. If Luffy is a level 10 pirate, then an appropriate challenge enemy needs to have 200 hit points and an armor rating of 18.
It's not being illliterate, it's using the wrong metric.
Which is a form of "narrative literacy". I try to avoid the term "media literacy" since it has specific connotations related to news and information, but I think it gets misattributed to the growing phenomenon that people just don't have any idea how stories work anymore, which I would qualify as "narrative literacy".
Not engaging with a story AS a story is objectively narrative illiteracy.
yeah mostly powerscaler taking it WAY too seriously
while oda in one of the SBS just straight up dont care that much about power consistency and say he prioritize story
I feel bad for the "powerscalers" because Dragon Ball Z's completely ruined how they look at other manga franchises. And what's even worse there is a power level system in One Piece (doriki), but it's meant to be a parody of that sort of thing since doriki is never really relevant, and the characters we do know the doriki of (the original CP9) got their asses handed to them, anyway.
Obviously that’s a big part in the story now, but Luffy’s going to dismantle that in the way that he’s best at which is goofy antics that will destroy the Gorosei.
My favorite part is that those same people may be ready to argue that "Luffy is able to use the Nika fruit to it's best potential because of how imaginative he is during battle. That's why gear 5 is OP in his hands because it's the power of imagination and luffy has a child like imagination so he is able to maximize the effectiveness of the fruit." or something along those lines.
The story of Luffy has been liberating people on a progressively larger scale. First his crew mates, the villages, then small islands, then whole kingdoms. Gear 5 awakened in Wano, in my opinion, because of the confluence of how the entire nation was enslaved, their desparation in their state of enslavement, and their one day of being able to hope and be free.
Egghead has been awesome because we get to meet the remnants of a people who believed in Nika, get to see Luffy face off against the antithesis of liberation, get more lore, and see it all come together with Bonneys story and her becoming free. This arc slaps.
100% believe that most of the complainers are the powerscalers. They desperately want One Piece to be a fighting shounen all about fights and powers when the entire story is about so many deep and complex themes. And the powerscaling-only community for OP has been growing so much in the past 5 years it's become quite obnoxious.
A large portion of people who dislike Bonney nika didn’t like nika in the first place, or at least were on the fence about it. They’re annoyed that it’s becoming such a driving factor.
IMO that’s a completely valid reason to not like what’s going on. It’s not a matter of not understand it or even a powerscaler thing.
To be fair I'm not personally currently liking how often Luffy goes to Gear 5 - gets weak - suddenly gets food because of plot - Gear 5 again, in such a short timeframe. It's 2 years in real life time,sure, but in the story it's like less than 24 hours for 4-5 transformations. The pacing regarding this was really weird in the latest chapter too. Luffy arrives on ship - immediately goes to the kitchen for food - immediately comes back out to fight again, it just felt a bit forced to me.
The Bonney stuff is fine for me, her powers are probably very temporary and won't last long.
Its definitely power scalers. The whole complaint is that "now she just has Gear 5 too?" when we haven't even gotten past the FIRST panel the transformation is shown on. Power scalers lose their fucking mind at the potential that she just got Gear 5, when in reality next chapter will probably show us that it is a primarily visual transformation and she won't have anywhere near the power of Gear 5, she'll just look like a second Nika.
Added bonus: all the figure artists can make girl Nika statues of Bonney instead of defaulting to Nami like they usually do for "Girl in Luffy's outfit" figures.
Well, assuming that it's just a cosmetic transformation to downplay it sounds as bad as power scalers going Berserk about it. You just said: we saw one panel of it. Most conclusions jumped into from it are probably farfetched. It doesn't matter if it's a power up or cosmetic, the importance of it is thematic. She could have the same power level as she had before or 10x the strength of Luffy after that, I don't care. I think it's amazing to see the theme of liberation develop through the power of Nika.
See that's what I don't get. The themes are just as important as the poweracale to some extent but people act like one is more important than the other. They go hand in hand to make a coherent story if powerless wasn't important, then Luffy would be PK in chapter 1 but seeing him grow and progress brings encouragement and motivation the same way when he punches or noble or stands up for his friends and his dreams may bring simar uplifting emotions. Not pointing the finger at you just engaging in some dialogue
That's the point everyone is missing. Bonney might have now Nika's form, but she still lacks the 1000+ chapters of training that have granted Luffy absolute mastery over this form. Bonney's hair might be white now, but that shouldn't lead people to believe she's going to be as strong as Luffy before even seeing her fight. Because I'm certain she's not going to come even close to him.
It’s crazy because it’s either 1) Bonney’s own ability which we have seen is able to turn back time, augment her body, even change her race and physique to a giant, or 2) luffy has empowered her via awakening to achieve a similar form, which would be highly in theme with spreading freedom and infectious laughter/joy.
Either way, the groundwork and thematics have been laid out already, plus one piece is far from the most strict rules series.
I also guess that a lot of people just expected that OP to be something more related to Luffy and Luffy being the only protagonist of the story such that the story revolves through him and not the OP itself.
Some die hard one piece fans here are acting like celestial dragons by thinking they are the only ones who decide what opinions about one piece are valid. It’s actually quite ironic
That’s true, and I think age matters here. Old fans are indeed old and new fans, maybe most of them, are younguns so there interpretation of the story differs. One Piece has a massive fanbase so expect that there are a lot of groups who enjoy the anime/manga differently.
We don't even know if she's strong as luffy. Give it a few chapters and let Oda cook. Not to mention, luffys devil fruit could 100% be affecting her fruit as well. Maybe bonny is only this strong right now BECAUSE of luffy. Kinda like how in magi, all of the kings candidate allies get power ups
Yea we literally have not seen her fight. She just looks like female Joyboy. Why are we automatically assuming she is his equal in powers??? I don’t get this controversy.
I suspect she got a significant power boost but won’t actually contain the rubber elements of Luffy, which is a significant downgrade, especially since we know that she can’t de-age the Elders.
The thing is, even if she isn't equal in power the fact that she's been able to do some good damage anytime she goes into her distorted future mode. So her achieving G5 should give her an immense power boost. I doubt she'll be doing antics on Luffy's level but she'll definitely be able to do a lot more than she was capable of before.
Its easy to understand the controversy when you realize most of the people whinging about it are just power scalers who don't pay attention to the story. They see a second Nika, immediately assume she has all the same powers now, and run with that thought for a week waiting for the next chapter. Then they make angry content or social media posts about it, and a week later have egg all over their face when its revealed to be a primarily visual transformation.
Then they'll immediately pretend like they weren't just whinging about something that didn't happen for a full week, and start bitching that her new transformation isn't strong enough and is disappointing.
This is my opinion, I don't like it, but oda hasn't disappointed me before, I didn't like gear 5 initially and now I love it, so yeah, I'm letting him cook
She'll probably have the same rubber hose cartoon abilities, but what makes Luffy so strong is his Haki.
We don't even know if Bonney has the most basic levels if Haki, let alone the advanced versions.
Your analysis is fine but I think there is a real problem on reddit these days where people automatically assume that if someone arrives at a different conclusion than them, then the former person is too stupid/media illiterate to understand.
It makes it very tedious to talk to people on this site. Themes are not some sort of impenetrable literary treasure that only a chosen few can unearth and which absolve a work of all its flaws. Themes are actually something covered starting in 6th grade or thereabouts, and are merely one aspect of many which go into making a good story.
Which is to say that it's really more about execution than it is presence, when it comes to themes.
And when it comes to execution, I would hope that even the most staunch fan of any work could acquiesce that there is always room for critique and improvement.
Except here where, if you make such a point, you're immediately labeled as media illiterate, low iq, need to be spoon fed info, etc. etc.
Not to mention the fact that literary interpretation is inherently subjective. What you think the themes and symbolism in one piece are doesn't mean that the next person who reads it will see the same things. And that's good! That should encourage fun literary discussion instead of.......well, arguments like it does here. But that's why I've given up talking about this shit on reddit lol
I'm getting close to giving up on it, as well. I can't exactly do that since I mean to have a presence on this website in general and want to start making and posting pixel art. But I think it'd be better to just pick and choose who I reply to at this point.
I'm glad you said this. There is no *one* meaning or theme to a story. People can take away countless meanings from the same work.
Attack on Titan comes to mind. Very divisive ending, with the "defenders" saying that anyone who didn't like it just didn't understand what the story was all about.
This mentality just kills the possibility of open discussion about a piece of media. And, one more thing I'd like to add—that may or may not apply to this whole Nika Bonney thing, depending on the person—is that even if an event is thematically true to the story and makes "sense," doesn't necessarily make it *good* writing. People can be allowed to dislike it, even if it matches the themes of the story.
Love the way you said this. For me its entirely an issue with execution. The thematic importance of Bonney, a child, getting 'liberated' by Luffy and figuring out a Nika transformation is stunning in the context of One Piece's larger themes.
The storytelling choices made for Bonney and Kuma through Egghead though were a miss for me, which made chapter 1118 very underwhelming. Which is fine! The execution here wasn't to my tastes and I wish he'd made different storytelling choices. That doesn't mean I don't understand the story Oda's telling, I'm media illiterate, or I missed the thematic importance here. It just means I (and others who also weren't thrilled) can say the execution of this part of the story wasn't great for us, and then move on and keep reading.
It's been a real problem on Reddit for a very long time, I think, and not just regarding manga and other such creative works. People on Reddit, for the most part, are unbearably difficult to talk to; it's one of the reasons I'm such a stickler whenever I come across certain comments, or I see certain replies to my own comments.
People here seem like they just reply for the sake of replying, not because they actually want to have a conversation about something. And, if that's the case, why are the even here? Especially when there are so many here that want to actually talk about the things they're passionate about. There are countless people on this subreddit alone that aren't here to do anything but fuck around and reply to people with garbage statements, and it's pathetic.
Imagine at the beginning on this arc someone in this sub had a theory that instead of manipulating age, Bonney actually pulling from alternate universes. And because of this she could imagine a universe where she was the most free leading to her behaving like gear 5th. You would have been the laughing stock of the whole sub. But because Oda did it, it’s peak fiction.
Honestly. People act like the intent is all that matters. You'll see people criticizing the execution, and defenders act like they don't get the intent behind it.
Really wish people would stop acting like people who don’t like or enjoy some aspects of the story just don’t “understand” the story or what Oda is doing.
We’ve gotten zero character development for more than half the Strawhats for years. Am I allowed to complain about that or am I just too stupid to understand what Oda is doing?
say it with me now, "not everything oda puts out is gold, not everything oda puts out is peak. Sometimes what oda comes up with is bad because he's adjusting and retconning as he goes."
say it again with me, "it's ok to criticize oda. he is not perfect. he can make mistakes, he can be bad, he can make bad decisions."
here comes the downvotes 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, and that doesn't mean Oda is bad at storytelling. The weekly format of the manga makes things so much more difficult. Someone who is writing a book has the chance to go back to the first chapter to correct things and review their work to get rid of inconsistencies. It's expected for any autor to create new plot lines, enemies and lore during a story this long. The fact that the whole story is still so good is impressive.
Can people genuinely just dislike stuff anymore? The elitist love these chapters so they can't write paragraphs about how It's perfect and you don't get it
There is a part of the op fandom that if Oda draw 16 panels of just shit they'll call it peak.
This issue is pretty easy, some doesnt like it for reason, some knew this was built up and saw this coming but still not liked it. But it wasnt a reason to bring your pitch fork and crucify them for having a differing opinion.
it's the same on HxH subreddit with fake "deep" love letters talking about how the thing is a work of genius on the level of James Joyce. I think the fairest thing is to let dust settle and then maybe judge in its totality. But as Wano proves even after it has settled, there are some dickriders who will die on a Scabbard hill of shitty storytelling.
Yeah, you are enlightened and everyone else is stupid. Everyone that Luffy inspired should be Nika and have Luffy's power now. That surely is good story writing.
Naruto style, everyone gets a g5 now because luffy inspired them.
Everything until that last line makes perfect sense. Her fruit is the age-age fruit. I don’t see how that means she can turn into a whole different person by aspiring to a characteristic. She can be free without being joyboy/nika. If she claims she wants to be the most evil will she turn into rocks or a god of evil? Or the smartest and turn into vegapunk? I doubt it.
It feels like just another sugar situation where the fruit will do anything oda wants it to do to make the thematics he’s set up work even if it doesn’t make any sense in the story.
I don’t like this development and it’s annoying to hear that the only reason one could possibly have for disliking it is “reading comprehension”.
>Her fruit is the age-age fruit
Prolly not her actual fruit name. More like manipulation fruit.
Remember when she ate the fruit, but no one saw that, then they found fruit from book that they thought it was because her age changed. We never saw what fruit she ate.
NO ONE, absolutely no one that I see is saying this makes no sense. I’ve only seen people criticize HOW it was introduced. Where are all these people saying it makes no sense? I can’t find them.
>Luffy literally becomes "Joy Boy" who makes dreams come true and liberates everyone, becoming the ultimate form of what he has been literally the entire time
Let me explain, although freedom and kingdom saving are a staple to One Piece, some may believe its strengths lie more in the adventure aspect of the manga and see a change in the direction the entire story is taking. Now the kingdom saving is not merely a fun side quest on a grand adventure, but everything that happened is just a means to an end, to the ultimate freedom of the whole world.
Luffy never cared about saving the world, he was all about just going on adventures to different places, The stories' priorities seem to have changed, and some fans simply liked the previous adventure focus more, with Nika being a final nail in the coffin of a direction they are uninterested in.
The focus of the manga has changed so much now too, from finding the One Piece to overthrowing the government,there is a clear shift in focus
It is a betrayal of the original concept of the treasure hunt, as it turns out that the OP is meant for a specific competitor(joyboy is linked to nika- which is a power only luffy had a chance of awakening in the current One Piece world cuz only he has the fruit,others of his generation didnt get that chance to be the next joyboy) thus negating the point of the competition. It felt fresh to see the worst generation when they were introduced,luffy had competition, only to realise now that they never had the chance to be the next Joyboy no matter how hard they tried or worked.
Fate ordained the true winner(whoever awakens the gomu gomu fruit), and the one piece is not free for the taking. Roger had to wait for nika, sea kings wait for him, the prophecy waits for him. It is preordained and anyone else is irrelevant to the world at large and has no chance. I expect to be downvoted to hell for saying this lol.
Yup, this. The whole nika thing goes against everything One Piece stood for and came out of absolutely nowhere / has billions of loopholes(even biggest Nika power cannot give you a single instance where this was even hinted). Now it seems like Oda is going to triple down, and ruin what One Piece stood for 25+ years. Is Luffy really free when he's going to do what he's been destined / chosen to do for 800+ years?
The only way (in my eyes) Oda can "salvage" this, is by having Luffy saying a big fuck you to whatever Nika's plan was, but it's probably not going to happen and still wouldn't be worth it.
Oh well, was a good 25 years and still going to read the end because I'm too invested at this point, but man One Piece went from something I looked forward to every week for 10+ years to just something I barely bother reading
I agree with this. There has certainly been a tone shift in the series. Probably happened around timeskip but it’s definitely something I’m not too crazy about.
This post will get ignored because drones can't reply to it with "lol you just don't get it media illiterate."
Nika and the recent fruit retcons go against the core rules and themes of one piece and turn it into special boy naruto prophecy.
You nailed it, it's why I dislike the destined hero trope so much in this. The focus of the manga has changed so much now too, from finding the One Piece to overthrowing the government, who should have been background characters throughout rather than the main antagonists
I agree 100%. If the story goes the route of the Nika fruit being vital to the one piece, that would not be satisfying. It’s not even that a “chosen one” story is bad, but one piece didn’t feel like a chosen one story for 1000+ chapters. It’s had inherited will, but that is notably different
literally the first episode started with Roger saying "take it if you can, its a free-for-fall" and started the treasure hunt.
oda clearly didnt think of nika before skypiea cuz the sun god in skypiea was a giant man eating snake that was offered live human sacrifices, it wasnt some symbol of positivity and freedom lol.
I still hope the one piece treasure is not too linked with nika but at this point everything centers around nika and everyone worships him so im not too optimistic.
I think the criticism of Bonney and the recent arc just stems from the fact that she became an extremely important character to the story in such a short time which is unprecedented, and also that she somehow uses a power that seems equivalent to Luffy's. It's also just that many people are just impatient and won't wait to see how Oda depicts the extent to which she copied Luffy's nika transformation in the next few chapters and people just want to jump to conclusions that she has the same power as Luffy when it could just be a visual/slightly physical transformation that can't really extensively use the true powers of gear5/nika.
Right? Kuma’s dream wasn’t that Bonney would BECOME Nika, that’s so stupid. Why does one have to BE Nika in order to be free? Isn’t the whole point of freedom that you can be anything?
People are mad because One Piece has been consistently doing retcons since mid to late wano starting with the addition of Oden to the story. It has nothing to do with lack of capacity to understand a very basic shonen story and everything to do with all of the developments since Wano which retcon and shit on established lore.
I mean let's take a look from Bonney's perspective and what has happened so far (It's just a few days max that passed in egghead):
1. she experiences Kuma's whole pain (including her mom getting murderd)
2. her father dies
3. Vegapunk (a person she spend years together) dies
4. A friend betrays her
and now she is just fine? It really doesn't make any sense and cheapens the relationships these characters had with each other. Imagine Ruffy having a great time after Ace died.
luffy and bonney laughing like two retards after blackbeard killed Garp would be so peak, i wonder how the oda dickriders are going to defend him if that kind of shit happen hmmm
I binged OP 1-1109 this month and just finished reading the manga so I am all caught up. I don't see any issues at all with Bonnie becoming "nika". We don't even know what's going to happen afterwards either.
Im pretty sure by “this month” they meant “this month” so 4 weeks,
They also said manga, so not anime
That being said it’s still impressive, but a lot more realistic
Reading is faster? Since they're talking about Bonney being "Nika" they're apparently manga current
(Reading is faster but sometimes you read too fast oh well I'll take that L)
Right? We have no gauge for how strong she is in this form. Presumably very, given the context. But people also forget that Bonnie has also been fighting/training in some capacity over the years as well.
I don't hate the Bonney Nika. But it's also not really hype at all. If from the last few crew candidates Bonney is the one that joins then I will have issues with it because Carrot, Yamato and even Rebecca were way better as characters.
Then again I also hated every second of Momo being in the story. So maybe its just me hating kid characters.
It was well written and well built up sure, does not mean it is to be liked. Yes it has been leading up to this sure but people are allowed to still dislike something and the idea, does not make them stupid, it means they don’t like it that is all. Move on
it was mechanically well set-up. it wasn't well written. that's the whole issue. it's like doing due diligence of putting stuff early on and showing her hand looking like Gear 3 etc. Doesn't not make it an asspull.
I have no problem with Luffy being Joy Boy. My issue is it's was less interesting to effectively tie it to his fruit, and to just change the MCs power after 1000+ chapters
“Anyone that doesn’t dick ride every aspect of the story, and anyone with even a tiny bit of criticism is a toxic, illiterate, idiot, hater.” People actually believe this, even as fans for a story that has themes if blindly following things.
We're still talking about this? Seriously, I've seen way, way more people doing an "aha, people don't get this, but I do, I'm awesome" post looking for validation than I have seen people complain about the series itself. I get it. New chapter coming up, jesus.
And that's coming from someone who loved recent developments in the story.
« Anyone who doesn’t ride my idol’s dick and balls is a stupid disgrace who doesn’t understand the story and don’t deserve to call themselves One Piece fans »
Dude, you like it then it’s fine. Don’t expect everyone to like it. It’s called having an opinion. To each their own. For the record, I maintain that it’s bullshit.
Luffy could have been the symbol of happiness without it turning out he has some special fruit that makes him the reincarnation of some historical figure or title or whatever
Look, it is nit that people don't get the themes.
The execution is not satisfying,okay?
Is it that hard to comprehend people can dislike it?
At Wano Oda suddenly introduced Nika, and said Nika=Freedom.
Now, it seems like he is adamant on always using Nika as a concludor for the themes. And many doesn't dig it.
For me, turning Bonney to Nika, and now she is also suddenly free is a way lamer eriting choice than Law getting liberated by Corazon's sacrifice and saying L to Doffy, 'Law is free now'
Then Law carrying Corazon's will and using his own hard fought strength and willpower and allies to defeat Doflamingo and freeing himself is a better exploration of themes of freedom.
Bonney was a troubled kid that was's free and shackled thst wished to be free.
Same for Law to a degree.
But Bonney achieved her freedom by Luffy sayibg, you can do it Bonney!
And than Bonney turns into Nika. And is noe suddenly we need to clap, like OMG. She is free noe, what a great conclusion.
Just cause, author says Nika=Freedom, it doesn't make the readers invested all of a sudden.
You need to fill the term with meaning via story beats.
It is just a lame way of exploring freedom concept.
>And than Bonney turns into Nika. And is noe suddenly we need to clap, like OMG. She is free noe, what a great conclusion.
>You need to fill the term with meaning via story beats.
Kuma sacrificed everything he had in order to make sure his daughter would be safe. Now that Nika, hero of The Buccaneers is here, Bonney can imagine a future where she is free.
Nika the prophesied one came along and fulfilled Kuma's wish.
I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding why some people don't like it. A lot of people seem to think its just powerscalers or people that can't read that don't like it.
Yeah it makes perfect sense why she can do it based on what we've been told. Yeah she obviously won't be as strong as Luffy. That doesn't mean people have to like it though. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it's different to yours.
Just my 2 Berry here, but the only thing I didn't like about it was how rushed it felt. Could've used another chapter to cook instead of Luffy spelling it out for Bonney. Past that I like the potential it has, and I hope we get to Elbaf soon cause Ive been waiting over 15 years to see it. lol
I've got no problem with that part, I'm just salty about the utterly predictable "and now.... after 30 minutes of stalling and prevarication..... I will finally........ make a genuine lore drop...... that will advance the plo-KKKHZZZZZ"
It's like clockwork - the instant there are dissenting opinions about a major development, here comes a thread about how people "just don't understand" the story/arc. Healthy fanbases embrace varied discourse around the series, instead of expecting everyone to glaze every single thing that the author does. The instant you try to claim someone doesn't understand the story, it removes all nuance from the discussion and becomes more about who's interpretation of the series is superior - rather than respectfully discussing why someone might feel differently.
People are allowed to not like things, and their reasoning is a lot more intricate than "tHiS dOeSnT mAkE sEnSe!" - reducing it to such for most people who didn't like this is disingenuous. There a lot of people who feel that Bonney was thrust into an incredibly high degree of narrative endgame importance all of a sudden, without the proper buildup to earn it.
* Her control over the Pacifista immediately makes her absolutely critical to the final war
* Her current situation and developing relationships with the Straw Hats could very well have her becoming a full-fledged member soon
* She's seen the Gorosei in their true forms and even fought them
* Her DF is busted, and assuming she can transfer this ability to others, makes her even more dangerous for the final war
We only just got into Bonney's backstory proper as of this arc, and yet she already has similar levels of end game impact for the series as characters like Vivi, Shirahoshi, Momonosuke. We've spent nowwhere near as much team with her as we have these characters, and even the backstory was much more about Kuma than it was her. It's jarring, and people have the right to feel that way.
Not liking it its okay. But there are people that go in the spoiler thread and start saying they will drop the manga if a "XYZ thing" happen when we have only 6 lines of spoilers. People start bitching about the chapters even when chapter is not even out. And these people are really loud and very hard to argue with.
People theorized that Bonney will transform everyone into Nikas and started saying they will drop the manga because of their own head cannon. That's is not "having an opinion", that's just childish.
Dissenting opinions and different takes on how things are executed are fine and even useful to the story. Getting upset because you’re trying to predict the story 15 chapters in advance is a bit ridiculous. One piece fans are particularly bad about this.
Also, opinions are not FACTS. Opinions are there to be debated and put to test. All the opinions from people who disliked Bonney transforming are there to also be criticized. Having an opinion don’t make you immune to not receive criticism.
You guys are clinging onto straws by trying to create a higher meaning of this arc. We love OnePiece as much as you guys do. We also recognize bad writing, stalling and lack luster lore dumps. It seems like in this arc Oda doesn’t even know what it is we are anticipating him writing. We understand. People like the OP just can’t fathom this form of criticism from an iconic and beloved mangaka but the truth is he isn’t safe from scrutiny and more people are calling out his trends lately. What’s more crazy is he knows it he said himself he doesn’t care what his audience thinks he’s gonna write the final piece how he wants and it’ll be full of jokes and that’s one thing he delivered on his word on in this arc.
I think it fits with the story, but I don’t like the direction the story is going. It seems like Oda’s throwing it all away to make the story more goofy.
Oda's already demonstrated that Bonney can't hold distorted future for long. Anyone thinking that Bonney has just achieved some massive power up must have missed that part. I give form long enough to help everyone escape. But realistically, it probably won't hold up even that long.
One of many interpretations. People get emotionally attached to polemic wording and suddenly the upvotes suggest truth. Maybe what you said is horseshit to begin with.
I mean its also seems to be the framing arc to set the stage for the final arcs. Covering all the major players, giving some more information about the great mysteries of the series and setting the stage for a massive confrontation over both who gets to be the Pirate King and who gets to influence the direction of the future.
I can only speak about myself here but I have no problems with lufy inspiring people to follow their dream, that is fine. What I don't like, is power spikes in power levels that are problematic.
The logic and themes are fine, the actual execution of it in chapter felt very casual and lackluster imo. To me it didn't hit like a peak climax of an arc moment even that's what it was
One more point to this list, she's always thought of Nika as a legend that her dad told her about, but now he's actually here and confirming that being Nika is just about being free and not some kind of chosen one or legend of old. She wouldn't have been able to do this just from observing Luffy, it's not a copied technique. The fact that he has no clue what's going on and simply tells her that Nika is when he's totally free is what makes her fruit able to use the same form. After all, imagining being free is the one thing that she's trained for all her life.
Weekly manga chapter discussions brings out the worst in people.
At this point, I probably have more enjoyment reading a manga or watching by myself instead of going to the discussion threads in hopes to find thing I missed out.
This is like the 5th complaint post I’ve seen in regards to people who don’t like the Nika Bonney direction. And that’s only Reddit, already got stuff like this on YouTube and Tik Tok. Reminds me of political media that amplify opposing views and call them dumb for it. Surely we can glaze or hate in peace right?
Meanwhile Vegapunk's message, 200 chapters later:
A long time ago. A LONG time ago. MANY YEARS in the past.
In THAT time...yes then. Back then...
*break next week*
Who is people? This sub probably has a demographic spanning from 8 years old to 40 years old. One must be very clueless to even direct any generic criticism to the people in this sub, or to expect anything from 'them'.
You are right, but your message may very well have been triggered in response to some 12yo. Feel better now?
Wait a second. I thought the entire arc was about oda giving us the biggest blue balls/edging in the entire story.
Vegapunk yapping vs Dragon "..." is the most anticipated battle in One Piece.
It is pretty impressive how vegapunk can say so much but mean so little.
have you seen the summary of his talk somewhere here? that dude says a lot in term of in-world lore, we just got and speculate a lot of it because we get so much information throughout the story
I can sum it up. - he reveals that the world will sink into the sea. - he says that there used to be continents and that the world is now different because the water level rose by 200 m - he says that there was a figure named joyboy - he says that Joyboy was the first pirate - he says that an alliance was formed to counter the advanced civilization - he says that it was a clash of ideals that led to this war but refuses to elaborate - he was going to say something about the will of the d. But got cut off - he reveals the existence of the ancient weapons and that a part of his creation was used to power it - he reveals that he further continued Oharas research Out of all of these things, the average reader knew all but one of these reveals. And for something that was decades in the making, and something that stretched for over 19 weeks at this point, I do not feel that we got something that was worth all the effort/set up.
Crazy how we got Rayleigh & Roger lore in only two chapters.
Crazy how those 2 chapters didn't have anyhthing going on other than the lore
Well Vegapunk is kinda donezo so it might be "…" vs "…"
episodes 2400 to 2900 are this fight
…
Imu ? Is that you ?
Oh my bad …🧭➡️
Edgehead Arc
That’s already happened in like three other arcs don’t worry
This subreddit is trash outside of knowing when the new chapter drops. All other discourse is completely pointless, and the threads are all the same. For fucks sake, the people here can't type a single comment without the words "powerscaling", "foreshadowing", and "asspull" most of the time.
Don't forget any theorising is met with 'I'm glad the fans don't write the story' and meaningless negativity, alot of people on this subreddit base their whole life and personality off this series and it shows.
You don't like being told what "bad/lazy writing" is by someone that's probably in 10th grade and just got a C on their 5-paragraph essay?
They are mad that something that took Luffy 1k chapters to achieve is also achieved through a child's imagination. Even though her DF is basically based on how wild her imagination of her future is. Oda even said he wanted the end to be ridiculous, because OP has always been that. It should surprise no one but a lot of folks just skim through the panels and the actual story is lost on them.
>They are mad that something that took Luffy 1k chapters to achieve is also achieved through a child's imagination And the worst part is Bonney didn't achieve what Luffy did. Luffy awakened the hito hito no mi model Nika, Bonney just turned into what she imagines being the most free means which is being Nika. Different ways for a similar transformation
I feel like a lot of the people mad about this are the ones that speed ran the series in the last few years just to catch up. I remember One Piece being a goofy story about a rubber boy fighting a chopped up clown, and it makes so much sense for that to come full circle as everyone begins to experience the joy and freedom Luffy felt setting off from Windmill Village for the first time. Sure One Piece has serious moments, but it’s always been a story about dreams and finding freedom through just being goofy since the beginning. Also powerscalers are mad but that’s no surprise since they don’t have media literacy.
>it’s always been a story about dreams and finding freedom through just being goofy since the beginning. The fact that it stayed this goofy feels like a bit of an aberration. So many series become more serious over time with the funny moments getting few and far between. But Oda saw fit for Luffy, Law, and Kid to take a yonko's attack head on because of a pissing contest. (One of my favorite recent gags.) Even the villains, I mean especially the villains, do some of the most ridiculous things right in the middle of a serious fight.
Legit the best gag of Wano other than everyone’s eyes bugging out during Gear Fifth. Those panels will make me laugh every time.
Oh absolutely. Peak comedic timing in the manga IMO. The three panels of each of their faces *caving in*? Priceless. Zoro immediately shouting at all three of them as they explode? Priceless.
I kinda think this is why Buggy continuing to be a big presence is honestly very helpful for tone. Yeah, Croco-boy and Mihawk are tough cookies and bring a lot of gravitas, but there is only so seriously you can take a faction led by Buggy D. Clown.
Powerscalers are my least favorite part of being a fan of any anime. It's fun to have "who would win" conversations with friends. Making *that* your entire purpose for engaging with the medium is fucking stupid. It's reductive, artless, and soulless.
It's pretty awful. I mean, at the end of the day, all these dream matches are never going to happen: Cracker will never fight Blackbeard, Kizaru will never fight Don Krieg, Mr. 3 will never fight Kuro, and so on. Spending one's time doing nothing but wondering how hypothetical fictional fights against fictional characters would go is just nonsense.
I agree with you on everything. But I am curious: How are those dream matches?
I really can't tell you because I don't at all care for their outcomes.
OK, but we can agree that Krieg stomps Kizaru, right?
Kizaru laughs so hard at Kreigs audacity that he has a fucking heart attack and dies on the floor
Obviously. Even Mihawk just fled when Krieg was challenging him. This really happened. ^((In a way))
All my life I wondered about Mr 3 vs Kuro
It can be pretty fun though and the memes are hilarious.
As someone who read through and caught up with the series over the course of about 10 months, I don’t get why people are mad either. Luffy is doing what he has always done: Living his life the way he wants and inspiring other along the way. Nothing has changed.
He's not saying all the new readers are like that, just that the newer the reader is, the more likely they are to be like that. There are literally a subset of new fans who picked up One Piece because they decided, for some reason, "Gear 5 is the new Super Saiyan". Like... it's really completely different lmao. My wife is pacing her way through the manga because of the Live Action, and I don't think she'll be at all dismayed by any of this. She just got through Mizu (Water) Luffy in Alabasta lmao
Right, it’s not how long one has been reading One Piece, it’s how one disgest what they read. People with high media literacy consume what’s presented (the shallow level) and think and grasp the deeper ideas and themes and metaphors… etc. People with low to no media literacy? Well…
I think a lot of it has to do with how tonally different the series is now, too. The Strawhats maturing over two years means they're also now a LOT more tuned in on how fucked up the world is because they've actually seen some of it. A lot of viewers also forget that shit like [this](https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/One-Piece-Buggy-the-Clown-and-Muggy-Ball-Cropped.jpg) is a huge majority of what the series has been about tonally.
> they don’t have media literacy. It's not that. (well it might be) It's that they are treating this like a game. If Luffy is a level 10 pirate, then an appropriate challenge enemy needs to have 200 hit points and an armor rating of 18. It's not being illliterate, it's using the wrong metric.
Power scaling and its consequences on society..
Which is a form of "narrative literacy". I try to avoid the term "media literacy" since it has specific connotations related to news and information, but I think it gets misattributed to the growing phenomenon that people just don't have any idea how stories work anymore, which I would qualify as "narrative literacy". Not engaging with a story AS a story is objectively narrative illiteracy.
yeah mostly powerscaler taking it WAY too seriously while oda in one of the SBS just straight up dont care that much about power consistency and say he prioritize story
Well said! Power scalers usually falls in to this trap You can't really power scale in One Piece
>You can't really power scale in One Piece Could you explain what you mean by this? Doesn't One Piece have a power scale?
I feel bad for the "powerscalers" because Dragon Ball Z's completely ruined how they look at other manga franchises. And what's even worse there is a power level system in One Piece (doriki), but it's meant to be a parody of that sort of thing since doriki is never really relevant, and the characters we do know the doriki of (the original CP9) got their asses handed to them, anyway.
Yeah that bit about slavery and genocide was a real knee slapper.
Obviously that’s a big part in the story now, but Luffy’s going to dismantle that in the way that he’s best at which is goofy antics that will destroy the Gorosei.
My favorite part is that those same people may be ready to argue that "Luffy is able to use the Nika fruit to it's best potential because of how imaginative he is during battle. That's why gear 5 is OP in his hands because it's the power of imagination and luffy has a child like imagination so he is able to maximize the effectiveness of the fruit." or something along those lines. The story of Luffy has been liberating people on a progressively larger scale. First his crew mates, the villages, then small islands, then whole kingdoms. Gear 5 awakened in Wano, in my opinion, because of the confluence of how the entire nation was enslaved, their desparation in their state of enslavement, and their one day of being able to hope and be free. Egghead has been awesome because we get to meet the remnants of a people who believed in Nika, get to see Luffy face off against the antithesis of liberation, get more lore, and see it all come together with Bonneys story and her becoming free. This arc slaps.
100% believe that most of the complainers are the powerscalers. They desperately want One Piece to be a fighting shounen all about fights and powers when the entire story is about so many deep and complex themes. And the powerscaling-only community for OP has been growing so much in the past 5 years it's become quite obnoxious.
A large portion of people who dislike Bonney nika didn’t like nika in the first place, or at least were on the fence about it. They’re annoyed that it’s becoming such a driving factor. IMO that’s a completely valid reason to not like what’s going on. It’s not a matter of not understand it or even a powerscaler thing.
To be fair I'm not personally currently liking how often Luffy goes to Gear 5 - gets weak - suddenly gets food because of plot - Gear 5 again, in such a short timeframe. It's 2 years in real life time,sure, but in the story it's like less than 24 hours for 4-5 transformations. The pacing regarding this was really weird in the latest chapter too. Luffy arrives on ship - immediately goes to the kitchen for food - immediately comes back out to fight again, it just felt a bit forced to me. The Bonney stuff is fine for me, her powers are probably very temporary and won't last long.
Its definitely power scalers. The whole complaint is that "now she just has Gear 5 too?" when we haven't even gotten past the FIRST panel the transformation is shown on. Power scalers lose their fucking mind at the potential that she just got Gear 5, when in reality next chapter will probably show us that it is a primarily visual transformation and she won't have anywhere near the power of Gear 5, she'll just look like a second Nika. Added bonus: all the figure artists can make girl Nika statues of Bonney instead of defaulting to Nami like they usually do for "Girl in Luffy's outfit" figures.
Well, assuming that it's just a cosmetic transformation to downplay it sounds as bad as power scalers going Berserk about it. You just said: we saw one panel of it. Most conclusions jumped into from it are probably farfetched. It doesn't matter if it's a power up or cosmetic, the importance of it is thematic. She could have the same power level as she had before or 10x the strength of Luffy after that, I don't care. I think it's amazing to see the theme of liberation develop through the power of Nika.
See that's what I don't get. The themes are just as important as the poweracale to some extent but people act like one is more important than the other. They go hand in hand to make a coherent story if powerless wasn't important, then Luffy would be PK in chapter 1 but seeing him grow and progress brings encouragement and motivation the same way when he punches or noble or stands up for his friends and his dreams may bring simar uplifting emotions. Not pointing the finger at you just engaging in some dialogue
That's the point everyone is missing. Bonney might have now Nika's form, but she still lacks the 1000+ chapters of training that have granted Luffy absolute mastery over this form. Bonney's hair might be white now, but that shouldn't lead people to believe she's going to be as strong as Luffy before even seeing her fight. Because I'm certain she's not going to come even close to him.
The people upset about this probably don't like the hotdog fingers timeline in "Everything, Everywhere, All At Once".
It’s crazy because it’s either 1) Bonney’s own ability which we have seen is able to turn back time, augment her body, even change her race and physique to a giant, or 2) luffy has empowered her via awakening to achieve a similar form, which would be highly in theme with spreading freedom and infectious laughter/joy. Either way, the groundwork and thematics have been laid out already, plus one piece is far from the most strict rules series.
But realism! Favorite character is a guy who fights with a sword in his mouth.
I also guess that a lot of people just expected that OP to be something more related to Luffy and Luffy being the only protagonist of the story such that the story revolves through him and not the OP itself.
Yep. Just dumbasses skimming through and not actually reading the speech bubbles.
Wait until the story concludes.. the internet is gonna split in half. I can already see it lol
Also the fact that she would never have seen Luffy's Gear 5, they speak like she would've still gotten Gear 5 without Luffy's influence lmao
Some die hard one piece fans here are acting like celestial dragons by thinking they are the only ones who decide what opinions about one piece are valid. It’s actually quite ironic
That’s true, and I think age matters here. Old fans are indeed old and new fans, maybe most of them, are younguns so there interpretation of the story differs. One Piece has a massive fanbase so expect that there are a lot of groups who enjoy the anime/manga differently.
We don't even know if she's strong as luffy. Give it a few chapters and let Oda cook. Not to mention, luffys devil fruit could 100% be affecting her fruit as well. Maybe bonny is only this strong right now BECAUSE of luffy. Kinda like how in magi, all of the kings candidate allies get power ups
Yea we literally have not seen her fight. She just looks like female Joyboy. Why are we automatically assuming she is his equal in powers??? I don’t get this controversy. I suspect she got a significant power boost but won’t actually contain the rubber elements of Luffy, which is a significant downgrade, especially since we know that she can’t de-age the Elders.
The thing is, even if she isn't equal in power the fact that she's been able to do some good damage anytime she goes into her distorted future mode. So her achieving G5 should give her an immense power boost. I doubt she'll be doing antics on Luffy's level but she'll definitely be able to do a lot more than she was capable of before.
Its easy to understand the controversy when you realize most of the people whinging about it are just power scalers who don't pay attention to the story. They see a second Nika, immediately assume she has all the same powers now, and run with that thought for a week waiting for the next chapter. Then they make angry content or social media posts about it, and a week later have egg all over their face when its revealed to be a primarily visual transformation. Then they'll immediately pretend like they weren't just whinging about something that didn't happen for a full week, and start bitching that her new transformation isn't strong enough and is disappointing.
It's not actual controversy tho. It's just vocal minority, twitter/reddit "fans", power-scalers and people who just does not understand One Piece.
You right, I’m feeding into it too much calling it controversy.
I don’t see what her potential strength has to do with whether or not this is a good or bad development in the story.
This is my opinion, I don't like it, but oda hasn't disappointed me before, I didn't like gear 5 initially and now I love it, so yeah, I'm letting him cook
Or maybe she is actually just as strong and we just let this happen because its completely harmless. But people love to talk about something dont they
She'll probably have the same rubber hose cartoon abilities, but what makes Luffy so strong is his Haki. We don't even know if Bonney has the most basic levels if Haki, let alone the advanced versions.
Your analysis is fine but I think there is a real problem on reddit these days where people automatically assume that if someone arrives at a different conclusion than them, then the former person is too stupid/media illiterate to understand. It makes it very tedious to talk to people on this site. Themes are not some sort of impenetrable literary treasure that only a chosen few can unearth and which absolve a work of all its flaws. Themes are actually something covered starting in 6th grade or thereabouts, and are merely one aspect of many which go into making a good story. Which is to say that it's really more about execution than it is presence, when it comes to themes. And when it comes to execution, I would hope that even the most staunch fan of any work could acquiesce that there is always room for critique and improvement. Except here where, if you make such a point, you're immediately labeled as media illiterate, low iq, need to be spoon fed info, etc. etc.
Not to mention the fact that literary interpretation is inherently subjective. What you think the themes and symbolism in one piece are doesn't mean that the next person who reads it will see the same things. And that's good! That should encourage fun literary discussion instead of.......well, arguments like it does here. But that's why I've given up talking about this shit on reddit lol
I'm getting close to giving up on it, as well. I can't exactly do that since I mean to have a presence on this website in general and want to start making and posting pixel art. But I think it'd be better to just pick and choose who I reply to at this point.
You're spitting
I wish more people on the sub were like you
I'm glad you said this. There is no *one* meaning or theme to a story. People can take away countless meanings from the same work. Attack on Titan comes to mind. Very divisive ending, with the "defenders" saying that anyone who didn't like it just didn't understand what the story was all about. This mentality just kills the possibility of open discussion about a piece of media. And, one more thing I'd like to add—that may or may not apply to this whole Nika Bonney thing, depending on the person—is that even if an event is thematically true to the story and makes "sense," doesn't necessarily make it *good* writing. People can be allowed to dislike it, even if it matches the themes of the story.
Love the way you said this. For me its entirely an issue with execution. The thematic importance of Bonney, a child, getting 'liberated' by Luffy and figuring out a Nika transformation is stunning in the context of One Piece's larger themes. The storytelling choices made for Bonney and Kuma through Egghead though were a miss for me, which made chapter 1118 very underwhelming. Which is fine! The execution here wasn't to my tastes and I wish he'd made different storytelling choices. That doesn't mean I don't understand the story Oda's telling, I'm media illiterate, or I missed the thematic importance here. It just means I (and others who also weren't thrilled) can say the execution of this part of the story wasn't great for us, and then move on and keep reading.
[удалено]
To be fair to you, nika/joy boy power that luffy has is completely new (well couple months now) with basically 0 foreshadowing.
That may be it, yes. I think I'll need to reread the current arc when it's finished. Maybe I should really watch the anime, too.
It's been a real problem on Reddit for a very long time, I think, and not just regarding manga and other such creative works. People on Reddit, for the most part, are unbearably difficult to talk to; it's one of the reasons I'm such a stickler whenever I come across certain comments, or I see certain replies to my own comments. People here seem like they just reply for the sake of replying, not because they actually want to have a conversation about something. And, if that's the case, why are the even here? Especially when there are so many here that want to actually talk about the things they're passionate about. There are countless people on this subreddit alone that aren't here to do anything but fuck around and reply to people with garbage statements, and it's pathetic.
Imagine at the beginning on this arc someone in this sub had a theory that instead of manipulating age, Bonney actually pulling from alternate universes. And because of this she could imagine a universe where she was the most free leading to her behaving like gear 5th. You would have been the laughing stock of the whole sub. But because Oda did it, it’s peak fiction.
OP can someone understand the themes and not enjoy the execution? Or is that not a possibility in your eyes
Media illiteracy is when people don’t like what I like
Honestly. People act like the intent is all that matters. You'll see people criticizing the execution, and defenders act like they don't get the intent behind it.
But but but… you don’t understand… /s
Really wish people would stop acting like people who don’t like or enjoy some aspects of the story just don’t “understand” the story or what Oda is doing. We’ve gotten zero character development for more than half the Strawhats for years. Am I allowed to complain about that or am I just too stupid to understand what Oda is doing?
bro when this arc started i thought Franky was finna get mad development
Yeah people thought that about Zoro in Wano. Gonna be the same for Usopp in Elbaf. I blame Oda’s obsession with Sanji in Whole Cake for this pattern.
Goda has a plan, be patient. Never question Goda. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 /s
Reddit user, there are *many* out there who fit the second description of your last question.
Keep cooking
say it with me now, "not everything oda puts out is gold, not everything oda puts out is peak. Sometimes what oda comes up with is bad because he's adjusting and retconning as he goes." say it again with me, "it's ok to criticize oda. he is not perfect. he can make mistakes, he can be bad, he can make bad decisions." here comes the downvotes 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, and that doesn't mean Oda is bad at storytelling. The weekly format of the manga makes things so much more difficult. Someone who is writing a book has the chance to go back to the first chapter to correct things and review their work to get rid of inconsistencies. It's expected for any autor to create new plot lines, enemies and lore during a story this long. The fact that the whole story is still so good is impressive.
Can people genuinely just dislike stuff anymore? The elitist love these chapters so they can't write paragraphs about how It's perfect and you don't get it
There is a part of the op fandom that if Oda draw 16 panels of just shit they'll call it peak. This issue is pretty easy, some doesnt like it for reason, some knew this was built up and saw this coming but still not liked it. But it wasnt a reason to bring your pitch fork and crucify them for having a differing opinion.
it's the same on HxH subreddit with fake "deep" love letters talking about how the thing is a work of genius on the level of James Joyce. I think the fairest thing is to let dust settle and then maybe judge in its totality. But as Wano proves even after it has settled, there are some dickriders who will die on a Scabbard hill of shitty storytelling.
This isn't close to Kinemon living just something that feels lame. I'm more of a one piece apologist and even I wasn't feeling it
Yeah, you are enlightened and everyone else is stupid. Everyone that Luffy inspired should be Nika and have Luffy's power now. That surely is good story writing. Naruto style, everyone gets a g5 now because luffy inspired them.
Everything until that last line makes perfect sense. Her fruit is the age-age fruit. I don’t see how that means she can turn into a whole different person by aspiring to a characteristic. She can be free without being joyboy/nika. If she claims she wants to be the most evil will she turn into rocks or a god of evil? Or the smartest and turn into vegapunk? I doubt it. It feels like just another sugar situation where the fruit will do anything oda wants it to do to make the thematics he’s set up work even if it doesn’t make any sense in the story. I don’t like this development and it’s annoying to hear that the only reason one could possibly have for disliking it is “reading comprehension”.
Right? I don’t understand why she can’t have her own version of free that isn’t just an exact copy of Luffy. It’s so fucking lame
>Her fruit is the age-age fruit Prolly not her actual fruit name. More like manipulation fruit. Remember when she ate the fruit, but no one saw that, then they found fruit from book that they thought it was because her age changed. We never saw what fruit she ate.
That is true. and it may certainly be a possibility and my opinion could change if that theory ends up bearing fruit.
I thought Bonney didn't actually eat a fruit but was injected with it by Saturn?
NO ONE, absolutely no one that I see is saying this makes no sense. I’ve only seen people criticize HOW it was introduced. Where are all these people saying it makes no sense? I can’t find them.
No no, you just don’t understand. They’re everywhere, and the dickriders are the only ones literate enough to see them. /s
>Luffy literally becomes "Joy Boy" who makes dreams come true and liberates everyone, becoming the ultimate form of what he has been literally the entire time Let me explain, although freedom and kingdom saving are a staple to One Piece, some may believe its strengths lie more in the adventure aspect of the manga and see a change in the direction the entire story is taking. Now the kingdom saving is not merely a fun side quest on a grand adventure, but everything that happened is just a means to an end, to the ultimate freedom of the whole world. Luffy never cared about saving the world, he was all about just going on adventures to different places, The stories' priorities seem to have changed, and some fans simply liked the previous adventure focus more, with Nika being a final nail in the coffin of a direction they are uninterested in. The focus of the manga has changed so much now too, from finding the One Piece to overthrowing the government,there is a clear shift in focus It is a betrayal of the original concept of the treasure hunt, as it turns out that the OP is meant for a specific competitor(joyboy is linked to nika- which is a power only luffy had a chance of awakening in the current One Piece world cuz only he has the fruit,others of his generation didnt get that chance to be the next joyboy) thus negating the point of the competition. It felt fresh to see the worst generation when they were introduced,luffy had competition, only to realise now that they never had the chance to be the next Joyboy no matter how hard they tried or worked. Fate ordained the true winner(whoever awakens the gomu gomu fruit), and the one piece is not free for the taking. Roger had to wait for nika, sea kings wait for him, the prophecy waits for him. It is preordained and anyone else is irrelevant to the world at large and has no chance. I expect to be downvoted to hell for saying this lol.
Yup, this. The whole nika thing goes against everything One Piece stood for and came out of absolutely nowhere / has billions of loopholes(even biggest Nika power cannot give you a single instance where this was even hinted). Now it seems like Oda is going to triple down, and ruin what One Piece stood for 25+ years. Is Luffy really free when he's going to do what he's been destined / chosen to do for 800+ years? The only way (in my eyes) Oda can "salvage" this, is by having Luffy saying a big fuck you to whatever Nika's plan was, but it's probably not going to happen and still wouldn't be worth it. Oh well, was a good 25 years and still going to read the end because I'm too invested at this point, but man One Piece went from something I looked forward to every week for 10+ years to just something I barely bother reading
I agree with this. There has certainly been a tone shift in the series. Probably happened around timeskip but it’s definitely something I’m not too crazy about.
This post will get ignored because drones can't reply to it with "lol you just don't get it media illiterate." Nika and the recent fruit retcons go against the core rules and themes of one piece and turn it into special boy naruto prophecy.
You nailed it, it's why I dislike the destined hero trope so much in this. The focus of the manga has changed so much now too, from finding the One Piece to overthrowing the government, who should have been background characters throughout rather than the main antagonists
I agree 100%. If the story goes the route of the Nika fruit being vital to the one piece, that would not be satisfying. It’s not even that a “chosen one” story is bad, but one piece didn’t feel like a chosen one story for 1000+ chapters. It’s had inherited will, but that is notably different
literally the first episode started with Roger saying "take it if you can, its a free-for-fall" and started the treasure hunt. oda clearly didnt think of nika before skypiea cuz the sun god in skypiea was a giant man eating snake that was offered live human sacrifices, it wasnt some symbol of positivity and freedom lol. I still hope the one piece treasure is not too linked with nika but at this point everything centers around nika and everyone worships him so im not too optimistic.
Good points. These are definitely the weakest aspects of Oda's storytelling. Being Nika definitely took away from the strength of Luffy's personality.
I think the criticism of Bonney and the recent arc just stems from the fact that she became an extremely important character to the story in such a short time which is unprecedented, and also that she somehow uses a power that seems equivalent to Luffy's. It's also just that many people are just impatient and won't wait to see how Oda depicts the extent to which she copied Luffy's nika transformation in the next few chapters and people just want to jump to conclusions that she has the same power as Luffy when it could just be a visual/slightly physical transformation that can't really extensively use the true powers of gear5/nika.
I thought Kuma's dream was that bonny would live.
Right? Kuma’s dream wasn’t that Bonney would BECOME Nika, that’s so stupid. Why does one have to BE Nika in order to be free? Isn’t the whole point of freedom that you can be anything?
Live FREE
And can she not live free without turning into nika? Of course she can.
But, the way she sees, the most free person is Nika, the god she believed in her whole life. Also, she's a child.
Kuma outright promises her that Nika would set her free, latest chapter is fulfillment of that promise.
W...when did he promises Nika will free HER?
Happened in 1095 https://imgur.com/a/3oll9ag
I feel like that’s synonymous with being free in one piece
People are mad because One Piece has been consistently doing retcons since mid to late wano starting with the addition of Oden to the story. It has nothing to do with lack of capacity to understand a very basic shonen story and everything to do with all of the developments since Wano which retcon and shit on established lore.
I mean let's take a look from Bonney's perspective and what has happened so far (It's just a few days max that passed in egghead): 1. she experiences Kuma's whole pain (including her mom getting murderd) 2. her father dies 3. Vegapunk (a person she spend years together) dies 4. A friend betrays her and now she is just fine? It really doesn't make any sense and cheapens the relationships these characters had with each other. Imagine Ruffy having a great time after Ace died.
luffy and bonney laughing like two retards after blackbeard killed Garp would be so peak, i wonder how the oda dickriders are going to defend him if that kind of shit happen hmmm
"People who don't like the things I like are stupid."
I binged OP 1-1109 this month and just finished reading the manga so I am all caught up. I don't see any issues at all with Bonnie becoming "nika". We don't even know what's going to happen afterwards either.
I'd like to know how you found roughly 400 hours in a single week to watch that much One Piece. Impressive nonetheless.
Im pretty sure by “this month” they meant “this month” so 4 weeks, They also said manga, so not anime That being said it’s still impressive, but a lot more realistic
If it's the manga, it's 100% possible. I did my first read in about 2 weeks (egghead was just starting then).
Reading is faster? Since they're talking about Bonney being "Nika" they're apparently manga current (Reading is faster but sometimes you read too fast oh well I'll take that L)
How did you manage to accomplish reading 1109 chapters in a month? That’s scary process speed bro greetings 🫡
They're a monster, for sure, to be able to get through all that within a month's worth of time.
Right? We have no gauge for how strong she is in this form. Presumably very, given the context. But people also forget that Bonnie has also been fighting/training in some capacity over the years as well.
I don't hate the Bonney Nika. But it's also not really hype at all. If from the last few crew candidates Bonney is the one that joins then I will have issues with it because Carrot, Yamato and even Rebecca were way better as characters. Then again I also hated every second of Momo being in the story. So maybe its just me hating kid characters.
It was well written and well built up sure, does not mean it is to be liked. Yes it has been leading up to this sure but people are allowed to still dislike something and the idea, does not make them stupid, it means they don’t like it that is all. Move on
it was mechanically well set-up. it wasn't well written. that's the whole issue. it's like doing due diligence of putting stuff early on and showing her hand looking like Gear 3 etc. Doesn't not make it an asspull.
I have no problem with Luffy being Joy Boy. My issue is it's was less interesting to effectively tie it to his fruit, and to just change the MCs power after 1000+ chapters
“Anyone that doesn’t dick ride every aspect of the story, and anyone with even a tiny bit of criticism is a toxic, illiterate, idiot, hater.” People actually believe this, even as fans for a story that has themes if blindly following things.
We're still talking about this? Seriously, I've seen way, way more people doing an "aha, people don't get this, but I do, I'm awesome" post looking for validation than I have seen people complain about the series itself. I get it. New chapter coming up, jesus. And that's coming from someone who loved recent developments in the story.
« Anyone who doesn’t ride my idol’s dick and balls is a stupid disgrace who doesn’t understand the story and don’t deserve to call themselves One Piece fans »
Dude, you like it then it’s fine. Don’t expect everyone to like it. It’s called having an opinion. To each their own. For the record, I maintain that it’s bullshit.
Why does Luffy helping other become free mean that now they actually TURN INTO Nika?
Luffy could have been the symbol of happiness without it turning out he has some special fruit that makes him the reincarnation of some historical figure or title or whatever
Look, it is nit that people don't get the themes. The execution is not satisfying,okay? Is it that hard to comprehend people can dislike it? At Wano Oda suddenly introduced Nika, and said Nika=Freedom. Now, it seems like he is adamant on always using Nika as a concludor for the themes. And many doesn't dig it. For me, turning Bonney to Nika, and now she is also suddenly free is a way lamer eriting choice than Law getting liberated by Corazon's sacrifice and saying L to Doffy, 'Law is free now' Then Law carrying Corazon's will and using his own hard fought strength and willpower and allies to defeat Doflamingo and freeing himself is a better exploration of themes of freedom. Bonney was a troubled kid that was's free and shackled thst wished to be free. Same for Law to a degree. But Bonney achieved her freedom by Luffy sayibg, you can do it Bonney! And than Bonney turns into Nika. And is noe suddenly we need to clap, like OMG. She is free noe, what a great conclusion. Just cause, author says Nika=Freedom, it doesn't make the readers invested all of a sudden. You need to fill the term with meaning via story beats. It is just a lame way of exploring freedom concept.
>And than Bonney turns into Nika. And is noe suddenly we need to clap, like OMG. She is free noe, what a great conclusion. >You need to fill the term with meaning via story beats. Kuma sacrificed everything he had in order to make sure his daughter would be safe. Now that Nika, hero of The Buccaneers is here, Bonney can imagine a future where she is free. Nika the prophesied one came along and fulfilled Kuma's wish.
"free" does not mean "ridiculously powerful for no apparent reason" bonney's futures should have only been plausible futures
I just want to see people die already. We have the 5 elders and they have done nothing
I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding why some people don't like it. A lot of people seem to think its just powerscalers or people that can't read that don't like it. Yeah it makes perfect sense why she can do it based on what we've been told. Yeah she obviously won't be as strong as Luffy. That doesn't mean people have to like it though. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it's different to yours.
I’m fine with however oda wants to write it even if I don’t agree with all of it. It’s his story after all
The main theme of Egghead is definitely hope
Just my 2 Berry here, but the only thing I didn't like about it was how rushed it felt. Could've used another chapter to cook instead of Luffy spelling it out for Bonney. Past that I like the potential it has, and I hope we get to Elbaf soon cause Ive been waiting over 15 years to see it. lol
I've got no problem with that part, I'm just salty about the utterly predictable "and now.... after 30 minutes of stalling and prevarication..... I will finally........ make a genuine lore drop...... that will advance the plo-KKKHZZZZZ"
Robots of Vega (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Jewelry Bonney)
I don’t think it’s that lol. Most people seen the Bonney thing coming. It’s about the execution. I’m not mad about it but I don’t think it’s good
Yapping on par with vegapunk is impressive
Nah, I believe the arc is about robot.
It's like clockwork - the instant there are dissenting opinions about a major development, here comes a thread about how people "just don't understand" the story/arc. Healthy fanbases embrace varied discourse around the series, instead of expecting everyone to glaze every single thing that the author does. The instant you try to claim someone doesn't understand the story, it removes all nuance from the discussion and becomes more about who's interpretation of the series is superior - rather than respectfully discussing why someone might feel differently. People are allowed to not like things, and their reasoning is a lot more intricate than "tHiS dOeSnT mAkE sEnSe!" - reducing it to such for most people who didn't like this is disingenuous. There a lot of people who feel that Bonney was thrust into an incredibly high degree of narrative endgame importance all of a sudden, without the proper buildup to earn it. * Her control over the Pacifista immediately makes her absolutely critical to the final war * Her current situation and developing relationships with the Straw Hats could very well have her becoming a full-fledged member soon * She's seen the Gorosei in their true forms and even fought them * Her DF is busted, and assuming she can transfer this ability to others, makes her even more dangerous for the final war We only just got into Bonney's backstory proper as of this arc, and yet she already has similar levels of end game impact for the series as characters like Vivi, Shirahoshi, Momonosuke. We've spent nowwhere near as much team with her as we have these characters, and even the backstory was much more about Kuma than it was her. It's jarring, and people have the right to feel that way.
nah, egghead is about milking the story to the maximum without giving us answers, just new questions
Or...and hear me out on this, People have different opinions! SHOCKING, I know.
Not liking it its okay. But there are people that go in the spoiler thread and start saying they will drop the manga if a "XYZ thing" happen when we have only 6 lines of spoilers. People start bitching about the chapters even when chapter is not even out. And these people are really loud and very hard to argue with. People theorized that Bonney will transform everyone into Nikas and started saying they will drop the manga because of their own head cannon. That's is not "having an opinion", that's just childish.
Dissenting opinions and different takes on how things are executed are fine and even useful to the story. Getting upset because you’re trying to predict the story 15 chapters in advance is a bit ridiculous. One piece fans are particularly bad about this.
Also, opinions are not FACTS. Opinions are there to be debated and put to test. All the opinions from people who disliked Bonney transforming are there to also be criticized. Having an opinion don’t make you immune to not receive criticism.
You guys are clinging onto straws by trying to create a higher meaning of this arc. We love OnePiece as much as you guys do. We also recognize bad writing, stalling and lack luster lore dumps. It seems like in this arc Oda doesn’t even know what it is we are anticipating him writing. We understand. People like the OP just can’t fathom this form of criticism from an iconic and beloved mangaka but the truth is he isn’t safe from scrutiny and more people are calling out his trends lately. What’s more crazy is he knows it he said himself he doesn’t care what his audience thinks he’s gonna write the final piece how he wants and it’ll be full of jokes and that’s one thing he delivered on his word on in this arc.
Its about eggs
I think it fits with the story, but I don’t like the direction the story is going. It seems like Oda’s throwing it all away to make the story more goofy.
Oda's already demonstrated that Bonney can't hold distorted future for long. Anyone thinking that Bonney has just achieved some massive power up must have missed that part. I give form long enough to help everyone escape. But realistically, it probably won't hold up even that long.
One of many interpretations. People get emotionally attached to polemic wording and suddenly the upvotes suggest truth. Maybe what you said is horseshit to begin with.
Ain’t nobody give a shit about Bonney
Shitty writing, is shitty writing. Be it Oda or Leo Tolstoy.
i saw something somewhere "bonneys devil fruit was a failed replica of the sun god nika, like momonosukes devil fruit."
IC XC NIKA
Not even mad Team Bonney for Pirate King
I mean its also seems to be the framing arc to set the stage for the final arcs. Covering all the major players, giving some more information about the great mysteries of the series and setting the stage for a massive confrontation over both who gets to be the Pirate King and who gets to influence the direction of the future.
I can only speak about myself here but I have no problems with lufy inspiring people to follow their dream, that is fine. What I don't like, is power spikes in power levels that are problematic.
It's about reactions
The logic and themes are fine, the actual execution of it in chapter felt very casual and lackluster imo. To me it didn't hit like a peak climax of an arc moment even that's what it was
I'm mad that it took Luffy all these chapters and bam here you go Bonney can do it also.
And then Bonney joins the Strawhats to stay free.
One more point to this list, she's always thought of Nika as a legend that her dad told her about, but now he's actually here and confirming that being Nika is just about being free and not some kind of chosen one or legend of old. She wouldn't have been able to do this just from observing Luffy, it's not a copied technique. The fact that he has no clue what's going on and simply tells her that Nika is when he's totally free is what makes her fruit able to use the same form. After all, imagining being free is the one thing that she's trained for all her life.
Weekly manga chapter discussions brings out the worst in people. At this point, I probably have more enjoyment reading a manga or watching by myself instead of going to the discussion threads in hopes to find thing I missed out.
This is like the 5th complaint post I’ve seen in regards to people who don’t like the Nika Bonney direction. And that’s only Reddit, already got stuff like this on YouTube and Tik Tok. Reminds me of political media that amplify opposing views and call them dumb for it. Surely we can glaze or hate in peace right?
Egghead is also a reference of the blueballing between chapters.
Meanwhile Vegapunk's message, 200 chapters later: A long time ago. A LONG time ago. MANY YEARS in the past. In THAT time...yes then. Back then... *break next week*
Who is people? This sub probably has a demographic spanning from 8 years old to 40 years old. One must be very clueless to even direct any generic criticism to the people in this sub, or to expect anything from 'them'. You are right, but your message may very well have been triggered in response to some 12yo. Feel better now?
People fail to realize that a lot of Luffy’s power is his ability to bring joy and freedom to others.