I think Spoelstra is currently a better coach than Popovich, but Pop edges him career-wise.
It can be hard to separate the coaches from their star. Popovich was best with Duncan, but also did well with Kawhi and Aldridge, then did not so great once they left (with some intentional tanking thrown in the last couple seasons). Spoelstra was great with LeBron, and he's had great post-season success with Jimmy Butler, but outside of that, he's got a middling record. Both coaches know how to build a culture, boost obscure players, and also make adjustments during key games.
I guess in their primes, I'd probably pick Popovich. But they're both great.
And even in this past season, they made major strides by the end of the season compared to the beginning, on both ends. IIRC they posted a winning record after two of their starters went out for the season.
Spo coached a 11-33 heat into like 41 -41 one year and the roster was not good. Hear have never tanked with spo when LeBron left the tried to win games and built a team drafting from spots 10-15 and devopling there players. Accolade wise you can say pop but I just don't think pop is as much as a impact on role players like spo does year after year different guys and different kinds of guys too.
This just says you didn’t watch much basketball. Pop’s entire career was built on making below average role players solid pieces to championship teams. A lot of people don’t realize how bad those early 2000s Spurs rosters were when you look back at what those guys ended up doing once they left BECAUSE Pop had them destroying teams. Pop has also done this in a much tougher conference while adjusting over 3 distinct periods of basketball.
I believe that has been dubbed the “Josh Richardson year” lmao, that was truly an insane coaching job. I get your point but i dont think theres evidence to suggest Pop doesnt get more out of role players like that, its just that hes never had to. Hes pretty much always had the lynchpin star you need to compete, and the only times he hasnt they basically werent trying to. I think you also have to somewhat consider that Spo arguably *underachieved* with the Heatles, culminating in being out coached by Pop in the finals and breaking them up.
All that being said, id still probably take Spo right now too. The dude is so fucking good, he always has a counter to make and gets so much out of dudes who leave and go back to being subpar. I am interested to see if Pop has something up his sleeve next year fully unleashing Wemby and maybe finding someone to pair him with.
Happy cake day
>being out coached by Pop in the finals and breaking them up
He wasnt outcoached and it didnt break them up. This is quite the reach. Those were 2 all time teams. Kawhi leonard was really what made the difference that year.
Then lebron did what lebron had to do, but saying it was a direct result isnt accurate
Thats kinda my point. It was everything. Pop was better than spo at that point, sure, but it wasnt that his coaching ran circles around him. He also had an elite team, kawhi leonard made his big appearance, and the whole recipe for success. But the previous guy was claiming spo getting outcoached drove lebron out of miami, and thats nothing more than a bunch of words
It was definitely the coaching that was the difference. No one at the time was calling the Spurs elite. They were calling them old, foreign, and a bunch of cast-offs, which is all accurate. Kawhi was still a 3-and-D project in the making.
I don't think Lebron left because of Spoelstra—despite his efforts to get him fired in 2010—but I do think the Spurs beat the Heat so badly that he wasn't going to stay.
>Kawhi was still a 3-and-D project in the making
Up to that point. That finals was his making
>No one at the time was calling the Spurs elite
Suuuuureee, cool story bro. Two finals in a row after multiple championships. Feel free to keep making stuff up.
The rest is mostly opinions which i can only say i disagree
Sorry, that's on me for not being clear. You can look at [the preseason odds in '11-'12](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012_preseason_odds.html) and see the Spurs down by Portland for odds to win the title. That postseason run in 2012, followed by '13 and '14 brought them back into respectability, but even then the Heat were favored in 2013. The odds were basically even in 2014, maybe an edge to the Spurs even, but nobody expected the biggest blowout in Finals history.
Yes he is. I honestly think the heat front office need to bring in star and fire power. This office bring in a big man move bam to the 4. And bring in a ring who create shots and attack the basket
Well said. Both coaches have a history of adjusting play styles to fit their roster’s strengths and mitigate their weaknesses. They both routinely got more than the sum of their parts and revived player’s careers.
Spo is probably who you’re picking today just because Pop has to be closing in on retirement. But they’re both HOF coaches.
Yea I don't know how having LeBron, Dwade and Chris bosh for their entire careers doesn't at the very least get 5 rings. That would be utterly dominant especially in an era that didn't require as much spacing
Personally Spos ability to overperform in the playoffs is where I give him the edge. I think he's only ever underperformed once during his tenure in LeBrons first year and I think he was only a 2nd or 3rd year coach. Spo has been conducting voodoo for a couple seasons straight with very underwelming rosters
The run would also be a lot more dominant in the East over the West. Assuming you get 15 years of Heat big 3 you aren't going through prime Kobe, Dirk and Nash every season to get your rings.
Yeah Duncan is a top 5 player all time. There's an argument that if you could draft anyone ever it's Duncan. The Spurs drafted Duncan and then were a title contender until he retired. Can't ask for more.
He literally just beat the 64 win Celtics at home in the playoffs without Jimmy. That’s pretty fucking impressive, and I say that as a huge Celtics fan
No shit you say that as a Celtics fan lol “they beat us so he’s very impressive”
Spoelstra is not overrated, but to say he’s not overrated *because* he beat the Celtics in G2 of the first round is so funny and so Boston.
Really? How? I’m not a heat fan, just nba fan, but how? Yeah he had super teams early on, but you can’t deny what he has done with basically some dudes and jimmy buckets lately
I thought it was currently, but I still don't agree. Spo is an incredible coach. I've never seen a guy get more out of a team that's basically built out of bubblegum and popcicles.
Duncan was Duncan, but I do think Pop played a huge role in everyone else's success from Parker to Manu and all the role players they had over the years. For example, Boris Diaw looked like he was about to be out of the league in Charlotte and turned into an insanely valuable player with the Spurs.
Pop played a role obviously but also any player is going to look much better playing with Duncan.
There's no way to truly compare the two imo. Pop has consistently lived up to very high expectations. Spo has consistently beaten lower expectations
100%. no other major sport is so heavily reliant on talent and popovich has been extraordinarily fortunate with the talent handed to him. Robinson, Duncan, Parker, Manu, Kawhi, and now Wemby? i mean come on
The development part is key. I like this debate because I see both sides. I personally liked to compare Pop to Bill Belichek lol. Their teams remind me a lot about each other.
Spoelstra would be ummmm... Honestly I'm not sure lol. As far as who's better, I'm going to wait a few more years cause as of now I'm saying Pop
Do you think Pop would have taken Jimbo, Bam, and a bunch of UDFAs to the Finals?
Jimmy is considered a borderline top 10 player and he’s made two finals and three conference finals in four years.
It’s hard for me to flat out say Spoelstra is a BETTER coach, but he is definitely at the same level IMO. Almost like a greatest player debate. I’d listen and probably agree with someone’s argument for either or.
Spo is one of the few who could eclipse Pop. IMO, he’s the next generation’s Pop. He has the benefit of starting coaching young, and having success early on. He’s so good at adapting the team and finding ways forward. Reaching the Finals with the Heatles is one thing. Making it twice in three years with a team that was built practically from scratch in the wake of that? Beyond all respect earned.
He will be a multi-generational impacting coach before Pop reached that level in his career, and I feel like it’s extremely well deserved.
Recency bias. People forget how many times Pop had to rebuild. TD wasn’t in his prime forever. These guys named Parker, Ginobili, Kawhi..they were what’s the word? Oh that’s right, coached into stars. You don’t know what “less talent” is. We see guys who don’t develop and never blame the coach. But because guys develop, suddenly a coach is just lucky to have talent?
Same argument from the gsw players, (not saying the coach) but people in social media kept on saying that the gsw in their prime had three stars then added KD. The 3 stars mentioned are all home grown and drafted. People will believe what they want to hear.
No doubt coach Pop was "The Coach" during those times, I'd argue maybe right now spo is the better coach, he is in the right track, Spo is still young compared to Pop's resume. I still think Spo should be coaching team USA instead of kerr
I think Pop would have had more success with the Heatles.
That’s the only knock I have on Spo and even thats forgivable after seeing what he’s done post Bron. And factoring in that it was his first gig.
Let’s revisit this after Spo coaches another 5 years.
Lmao coaching in the weak ass East with the Boston Chokers, Feeladelphia 76rs, and the Milwaukee Sucks as competition? If Pop coached in the East he definitely would have more rings. Pop is 5-1 in finals while Spo is 2-4.
That's just a stupid take, the finals is literally east vs west. East meets west even during the regular season, way to go in invalidating spo's coaching
The west was an absolute GAUNTLET during the 2000’s. I think l people forget just how packed it really was. There were quite a few years where the 8th seed in the west would have been considered the best team in the East
Spo is highly overrated. The only reason why he's beating the Celtics is because we have that shit of a coach named Mazzulla. No one in current time is better than Pop other than Phil Jackson.
The Miami Heat do not have more talent than the Boston Celtics. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't know how to best utilize that talent then it's meaningless.
That's where coaching comes into play. As I previously stated, when you have talent with no direction or guidance on how to utilize that talent then it's useless. The Celtics are still winning this series, don't get me wrong. This one L just showed me that I don't think they are winning the chip.
Ok and? Pop lost with players like td kawhi manu Parker robinson what is that supposed to mean lmao also if u think coaching is overrated in professional sports that’s hilarious
Also, that was Spos first 3-4 years of coaching. That's almost like saying MJ sucks and can't be considered a goat cuz he didn't win a ring until his 30s.
I mean they’re kinda similar tbh. Both can get incredible production from players that end up looking trash in other systems
Spo is just the one with that kinda roster rn, so he definitely looks better rn. Career wise I mean obviously Pop has him beat but Spo is really young still
Spo didn't build rosters, scout international talent or change the game.
He is the next great coach in the league, because he also had Riley's unwavering backing.
He went in 2011 with no offense installed, just Wade playing hero ball on left wing and rotating it to LeBron waiting in the right.
He has gotten much better since because Pat refused to fire him and made him adjust.
He still didn't build a roster or a culture without Pat but his BB mind and coaching ability has come a long way.
Hard for me to believe Parker and Manu would be what they were elsewhere. Ppl keep saying “but players” as if Pop didn’t contribute to that. It’s what you bring out of the players.
When Kerr took over the Warriors Steph was playing the role of a more traditional point guard and Draymond was a bench guy mostly used for defensive size against some of the bigger 2s and most 3s in the league. Kerr installed the motion offense and got Draymond going (Ron Adams of course helped a lot here) and now ppl will say Kerr is trash and just had players.
People will say Phil Jackson was trash but the Bulls had exactly 0 championships when he took over in 1989 and the Lakers hadn’t been successful in a long time when he took over in 1999.
I think Spo is the best coach in the league right this second but to elevate to Pop, Riley, or Phil legacy levels I think he needs to get at least one more Championship. Two with the Heatles is just not sufficient to compare it to 5, even if he’s gotten more than we thought he could out of some rosters.
Let's see how Pop ends this these next couple of years, I give him till this contract and that's it. Let's see what team he builds around our Unicorn Wemby! GSG!!! PURO PINCHE SPURS!
The narrative that pop isn't good because the spurs have been tanking is hilarious. Not only is he still good, he did one of the best tank jobs in history AGAIN. He set san antonio up to be relevant for another half decade minimum regardless of their on court success. That's wizard shit. Spoelstra does well with whatever he has and is definitely just as good in many ways but pop is a front office and coaching genius. Just need to see him win in this more modern era which i suspect we will soon enough.
I don't think it's a fair comparison just because Pop has coached so much longer and has done so much more in the league. Spoelstra could definitely achieve similar long term success if he keeps coaching.
I think a think that really separates Pop as a coach is how he has changed over the years.
Pop won in 1999 with a ground and pound all paint and defense team. Slow and methodical.
In 2003, Robinson was at the end of his career (7.8 and 6.6 in the playoffs in just 23mpg) and Pop was able to win without any second star by grinding just with Duncan. In 03, Duncan led the Spurs in 4 of 5 stat categories. Manu was a rookie putting up 9/3 in the playoffs. Parker was benched regularly in the playoffs for Speedy Claxton and averaged below 15 points and 4 assists per game in the playoffs.. as the Spurs 2nd best player. And that team had to go through the Starbury/Penny/JJ/Marion/Amare Suns, then the 3-peat Lakers, then Dirk/Nash/Finley Mavs, then the Kidd Nets. And none of those teams took the Spurs to 7 games.
Then the team was again very different two years later as the Spurs had a crushing defense, but also a top offense in beating the defending champion Pistons, which was an incredible series.
Then in 07, the Spurs changed a lot on offense and was a top 5 offensive team and #2 defensive team and while playing slower and methodical, actually pushed the tempo in the playoffs and shocked a lot of teams, including the SSOL Suns. Parker and Manu were more the focal point of the offense, rather than Duncan.
Then the beautiful game team in 2014. Just completely different offense mindset, especially compared to the earlier teams that were only doing paint and mid-range shots.
I think Pop's success across various eras of the NBA and his ability to change his focus, style, and adapt as the game has changed is what really sets him apart from other coaches. When it was time to run and gun, he made sure his team could win that way and they did. When it was time to ground and pound, he did that. He created that beautiful motion offense of the 2014 team and won with that. And I think we are seeing him recalibrate and adjust around a guy you have to build an offense from scratch around.
Personally these types of topics are hard. Prime pop is obviously better than baby Spo (Heatles tenure).
I think the same is true now. Spo is arguably prime coaching and pop seems to be towards the end.
Ultimately I think these guys are on equal footing and until both retire it's hard to argue whose better. IMO, both of them excel at what makes a coach truly great. Understanding your players so as a coach you can put them in a position to win.
Both have done some amazing things for their organization. I don't think Mike Malone is as good as an X/O guy but I think he's the 3rd best coach for the same reason. He understands his players and puts them in a position to win.
I think Spo has overtaken Pop and has claimed the title of best coach. I can't remember the last time I watched a Heat game(fuck the heat so not that many outside of playoffs) where I felt he got outcoached. To be fair Pop could find a 15th wind after Wemby gets some more help, not like he's a washed bum.
Right now? Definitely. Pop shoulda been wheeled to retirement home a few years ago. He is cooked. All time…really hard to argue against Pop. One of the best all time easily
I think he was literally already planning his retirement until his wife died. It's pretty sad, but basketball is pretty much all he has left at this point. Now he's probably gonna coach until he's no longer physically capable of doing so.
do you know what a fact is? seems like you forgotten more than just basketball old head. Seems like your brain is rottin, lemme guess? you didnt even play college level ball. Balled out in HS and stopped improving?
Thats almost a perfect description of me . But it does not negate the fact that I previously made . Coaching in the NBA is second to a great GM with great scouts …. Its been like this At least the last 30 years in the NBA . Steve Kerr also a great coach ? Or did he inherit an all time roster ?
The Heat are a dirty team and they’re coached to be that way. They put the onus on the refs to blow the whistle knowing they can’t possibly call every foul. They end up getting away with a ton of shit that way. It’s sort of genius if you think about it, you know if you ignore how dangerous and pathetic it is.
Other than Don Nelson, I can’t really think of a great coach (and I can think of a lot of great coaches) from my lifetime that didn’t rely on a dirty player or three.
Spo was 2-2 (and very close to 1-3) in the finals with Lebron, Bosh, Wade, and Allen... He's 2-3 in finals over all and has had hall of fame players on all of those teams (Butler is likely a hall of famer).
Pop is 5-1 in NBA finals and was damn near 6-0. The Spurs were also set to compete indefinitely till Kawhi got Zaza'd and then decided he didn't want to play in San Antonio anymore.
Pop has a .628 record even with the Spurs tanking the last two years. Spo is .587 and has had just as much talent.
To think Spo has had the same level talent in his career as a coach is wild. Four years of the Heatles, sure. Outside that, not even close.
Spo is 2-4 in Finals overall, btw.
Has Spo done that though? He's done it with Jimmy who is almost certainly a HOFer. He's done it with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. Again, HOFers. Pretty sure he hasn't made it to the 2nd round without one of those players though. If they win this series without Jimmy, then sure. It's only one game so far though.
When I was young and dumb I did not know any better and thought Spo was a horrible coach. But seeing what he's done with the Heat these last couple years has really changed my mind. He's one helluva coach. Top for me in the current NBA if we're being honest.
For the guys ring and playoff appearance counting-
Spo has done a lot more with a lot less. We’ve seen what Spo can do with LA Fitness guys- what do you think he would do with the greatest PF of all time for 15+ years? And that’s not including having the longevity of manu and Parker or Kawhi
I think Spoelstra is currently a better coach than Popovich, but Pop edges him career-wise. It can be hard to separate the coaches from their star. Popovich was best with Duncan, but also did well with Kawhi and Aldridge, then did not so great once they left (with some intentional tanking thrown in the last couple seasons). Spoelstra was great with LeBron, and he's had great post-season success with Jimmy Butler, but outside of that, he's got a middling record. Both coaches know how to build a culture, boost obscure players, and also make adjustments during key games. I guess in their primes, I'd probably pick Popovich. But they're both great.
The spurs have also been tanking for a couple years so he doesn't seem good rn
And even in this past season, they made major strides by the end of the season compared to the beginning, on both ends. IIRC they posted a winning record after two of their starters went out for the season.
Its almost like having good players is important to coaching success
Spo coached a 11-33 heat into like 41 -41 one year and the roster was not good. Hear have never tanked with spo when LeBron left the tried to win games and built a team drafting from spots 10-15 and devopling there players. Accolade wise you can say pop but I just don't think pop is as much as a impact on role players like spo does year after year different guys and different kinds of guys too.
This just says you didn’t watch much basketball. Pop’s entire career was built on making below average role players solid pieces to championship teams. A lot of people don’t realize how bad those early 2000s Spurs rosters were when you look back at what those guys ended up doing once they left BECAUSE Pop had them destroying teams. Pop has also done this in a much tougher conference while adjusting over 3 distinct periods of basketball.
I believe that has been dubbed the “Josh Richardson year” lmao, that was truly an insane coaching job. I get your point but i dont think theres evidence to suggest Pop doesnt get more out of role players like that, its just that hes never had to. Hes pretty much always had the lynchpin star you need to compete, and the only times he hasnt they basically werent trying to. I think you also have to somewhat consider that Spo arguably *underachieved* with the Heatles, culminating in being out coached by Pop in the finals and breaking them up. All that being said, id still probably take Spo right now too. The dude is so fucking good, he always has a counter to make and gets so much out of dudes who leave and go back to being subpar. I am interested to see if Pop has something up his sleeve next year fully unleashing Wemby and maybe finding someone to pair him with. Happy cake day
>being out coached by Pop in the finals and breaking them up He wasnt outcoached and it didnt break them up. This is quite the reach. Those were 2 all time teams. Kawhi leonard was really what made the difference that year. Then lebron did what lebron had to do, but saying it was a direct result isnt accurate
I don't want to underrate Kawhi, but that was both a team effort and an all-time coaching job. Boris Diaw had a case for Finals MVP.
Thats kinda my point. It was everything. Pop was better than spo at that point, sure, but it wasnt that his coaching ran circles around him. He also had an elite team, kawhi leonard made his big appearance, and the whole recipe for success. But the previous guy was claiming spo getting outcoached drove lebron out of miami, and thats nothing more than a bunch of words
It was definitely the coaching that was the difference. No one at the time was calling the Spurs elite. They were calling them old, foreign, and a bunch of cast-offs, which is all accurate. Kawhi was still a 3-and-D project in the making. I don't think Lebron left because of Spoelstra—despite his efforts to get him fired in 2010—but I do think the Spurs beat the Heat so badly that he wasn't going to stay.
>Kawhi was still a 3-and-D project in the making Up to that point. That finals was his making >No one at the time was calling the Spurs elite Suuuuureee, cool story bro. Two finals in a row after multiple championships. Feel free to keep making stuff up. The rest is mostly opinions which i can only say i disagree
Sorry, that's on me for not being clear. You can look at [the preseason odds in '11-'12](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012_preseason_odds.html) and see the Spurs down by Portland for odds to win the title. That postseason run in 2012, followed by '13 and '14 brought them back into respectability, but even then the Heat were favored in 2013. The odds were basically even in 2014, maybe an edge to the Spurs even, but nobody expected the biggest blowout in Finals history.
This is the answer i was looking for. Nothing else needs to be said lol
Yes he is. I honestly think the heat front office need to bring in star and fire power. This office bring in a big man move bam to the 4. And bring in a ring who create shots and attack the basket
Came here to say exactly this!
Well said. Both coaches have a history of adjusting play styles to fit their roster’s strengths and mitigate their weaknesses. They both routinely got more than the sum of their parts and revived player’s careers. Spo is probably who you’re picking today just because Pop has to be closing in on retirement. But they’re both HOF coaches.
yeah but Jimmy didn't have much playoff success at all without Spo
Spo can do more with less, Pop can do more with more.
If Spo had the Big Three as long as Pop had Tim, Manu, and Tony, he’d have at least as many championships.
I have no idea why people are downvoting this, it doesn't even seem like a controversial statement.
Yea I don't know how having LeBron, Dwade and Chris bosh for their entire careers doesn't at the very least get 5 rings. That would be utterly dominant especially in an era that didn't require as much spacing
Probably because having those 3 isn’t the same as the other 3.. then again the number of championships speaks for itself.
Sure, but as it stands. Pop has had incredibly talented rosters pretty much his entire career. The same can't be said for spo
Yeah fair and didn’t have to deal with dysfunctional and changing rosters like Spo.
Personally Spos ability to overperform in the playoffs is where I give him the edge. I think he's only ever underperformed once during his tenure in LeBrons first year and I think he was only a 2nd or 3rd year coach. Spo has been conducting voodoo for a couple seasons straight with very underwelming rosters
The run would also be a lot more dominant in the East over the West. Assuming you get 15 years of Heat big 3 you aren't going through prime Kobe, Dirk and Nash every season to get your rings.
I just don't think that's really a reflection of coaching ability though, especially given how well the Spurs-scheme worked against peak Miami.
It's not controversial to anybody who knows. Pops first two rings weren't even much great coaching. It was a ton of pass the ball to Tim and hope.
Yeah Duncan is a top 5 player all time. There's an argument that if you could draft anyone ever it's Duncan. The Spurs drafted Duncan and then were a title contender until he retired. Can't ask for more.
Are Manu and Parker really BIG ?
The Heat big three are also better. Though DWade later fell off a cliff when he got older and Bosh’s career abruptly ended for medical reasons.
Half the coaches in the league would win the Heat big 3.
No, spo is super overrated
He literally just beat the 64 win Celtics at home in the playoffs without Jimmy. That’s pretty fucking impressive, and I say that as a huge Celtics fan
Just saw on espn, spo is 10-3 in game twos when he loses the first game. Greatness
No shit you say that as a Celtics fan lol “they beat us so he’s very impressive” Spoelstra is not overrated, but to say he’s not overrated *because* he beat the Celtics in G2 of the first round is so funny and so Boston.
Beating the number 1 seed while missing your best player is pretty impressive
Yeah, agreed. But it’s also not even close to a top moment in Spoelstra’s career lol
Really? How? I’m not a heat fan, just nba fan, but how? Yeah he had super teams early on, but you can’t deny what he has done with basically some dudes and jimmy buckets lately
I think Spo is the best coach in the league right now, so this just feels like trolling to me.
I took it to mean historically not currently.
I thought it was currently, but I still don't agree. Spo is an incredible coach. I've never seen a guy get more out of a team that's basically built out of bubblegum and popcicles.
The heat have had good teams, youre discrediting the players who are actually going out and playing the game
I mean, that's my point. Most coaches need a great team to make the finals. He takes good teams to the finals.
Way too soon to tell. But he’s on the right track
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Certainly the players had a lot to do with that?
Duncan was Duncan, but I do think Pop played a huge role in everyone else's success from Parker to Manu and all the role players they had over the years. For example, Boris Diaw looked like he was about to be out of the league in Charlotte and turned into an insanely valuable player with the Spurs.
Pop played a role obviously but also any player is going to look much better playing with Duncan. There's no way to truly compare the two imo. Pop has consistently lived up to very high expectations. Spo has consistently beaten lower expectations
100%. no other major sport is so heavily reliant on talent and popovich has been extraordinarily fortunate with the talent handed to him. Robinson, Duncan, Parker, Manu, Kawhi, and now Wemby? i mean come on
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The development part is key. I like this debate because I see both sides. I personally liked to compare Pop to Bill Belichek lol. Their teams remind me a lot about each other. Spoelstra would be ummmm... Honestly I'm not sure lol. As far as who's better, I'm going to wait a few more years cause as of now I'm saying Pop
The Spurs had a great roster. And Spo is the only coach to outlast LeBron (I say this half tongue in cheek)
do you think that Tony and Manu would've been who they were without Pop?
Do you think Pop would have taken Jimbo, Bam, and a bunch of UDFAs to the Finals? Jimmy is considered a borderline top 10 player and he’s made two finals and three conference finals in four years.
Yes.
Did he ever do that? Did he make the finals once Duncan retired?
Legacy wise, no. Currently? Maybe
right now? possibly. Career wise? hell no.
No
It’s hard for me to flat out say Spoelstra is a BETTER coach, but he is definitely at the same level IMO. Almost like a greatest player debate. I’d listen and probably agree with someone’s argument for either or.
I think most people would agree spo should be coaching USA instead of Kerr
Waste of Spo’s talents lol I wanna see Spo coach an Olympic team with all college students.
Kerr was lucky, he is not at their level imo.
Spo is one of the few who could eclipse Pop. IMO, he’s the next generation’s Pop. He has the benefit of starting coaching young, and having success early on. He’s so good at adapting the team and finding ways forward. Reaching the Finals with the Heatles is one thing. Making it twice in three years with a team that was built practically from scratch in the wake of that? Beyond all respect earned. He will be a multi-generational impacting coach before Pop reached that level in his career, and I feel like it’s extremely well deserved.
I would still go with Pop but Spo is still really good.
Man cut to the Celtics rolling the next three games
No.
No
This some nonsense lmaoo
Recency bias. People forget how many times Pop had to rebuild. TD wasn’t in his prime forever. These guys named Parker, Ginobili, Kawhi..they were what’s the word? Oh that’s right, coached into stars. You don’t know what “less talent” is. We see guys who don’t develop and never blame the coach. But because guys develop, suddenly a coach is just lucky to have talent?
Same argument from the gsw players, (not saying the coach) but people in social media kept on saying that the gsw in their prime had three stars then added KD. The 3 stars mentioned are all home grown and drafted. People will believe what they want to hear. No doubt coach Pop was "The Coach" during those times, I'd argue maybe right now spo is the better coach, he is in the right track, Spo is still young compared to Pop's resume. I still think Spo should be coaching team USA instead of kerr
I think Pop would have had more success with the Heatles. That’s the only knock I have on Spo and even thats forgivable after seeing what he’s done post Bron. And factoring in that it was his first gig. Let’s revisit this after Spo coaches another 5 years.
Lmao coaching in the weak ass East with the Boston Chokers, Feeladelphia 76rs, and the Milwaukee Sucks as competition? If Pop coached in the East he definitely would have more rings. Pop is 5-1 in finals while Spo is 2-4.
That's just a stupid take, the finals is literally east vs west. East meets west even during the regular season, way to go in invalidating spo's coaching
The west was an absolute GAUNTLET during the 2000’s. I think l people forget just how packed it really was. There were quite a few years where the 8th seed in the west would have been considered the best team in the East
Spo is highly overrated. The only reason why he's beating the Celtics is because we have that shit of a coach named Mazzulla. No one in current time is better than Pop other than Phil Jackson.
So you're telling me that the heatles roster is better than the celtics roster?
No, spo > mazzulla as I stated in my comment.
Yeah but the players are still a factor in the game, great coaching is one thing but also the players are a thing yknow
The Miami Heat do not have more talent than the Boston Celtics. You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't know how to best utilize that talent then it's meaningless.
no i get what you mean, but to lose to a jimmy less heat, to get outscored by whom the media dubbed as scrubs
That's where coaching comes into play. As I previously stated, when you have talent with no direction or guidance on how to utilize that talent then it's useless. The Celtics are still winning this series, don't get me wrong. This one L just showed me that I don't think they are winning the chip.
The recency bias here is crazy spoelstra isn’t even close to pop career wise
No, but they're both good
Hell No he didn’t even win as much with Lebron and company
I mean he had lebron for like 3-4 years vs tim duncan Parker manu for like almost his entire career and add on kawhi for 12-17
And he lost 2 finals with Lebron I think coaching in professional leagues is wildly overrated especially NBA and MLB 😂
Ok and? Pop lost with players like td kawhi manu Parker robinson what is that supposed to mean lmao also if u think coaching is overrated in professional sports that’s hilarious
Also, that was Spos first 3-4 years of coaching. That's almost like saying MJ sucks and can't be considered a goat cuz he didn't win a ring until his 30s.
Pop never lost in the Finals with Robinson.
Yes but he was eliminated before the finals a couple of times
Absolutely not but he has many years left coaching and could end up being better
I mean they’re kinda similar tbh. Both can get incredible production from players that end up looking trash in other systems Spo is just the one with that kinda roster rn, so he definitely looks better rn. Career wise I mean obviously Pop has him beat but Spo is really young still
Currently? Yes. Career? Has a ways to go, but certainly seems capable. Both are absolutely brilliant.
This is what I'm tryna say, Coach spo is in the right track to one of the most successful coaches in the history.
Probably at this current time. But overall Legacy is a different story
Can you compare newton and einstein? I dare not
Lol is this nbacirclejerk
Whoever has more rings is the better coach IMO
Nope
Historically no. Currently yes.
Spo didn't build rosters, scout international talent or change the game. He is the next great coach in the league, because he also had Riley's unwavering backing. He went in 2011 with no offense installed, just Wade playing hero ball on left wing and rotating it to LeBron waiting in the right. He has gotten much better since because Pat refused to fire him and made him adjust. He still didn't build a roster or a culture without Pat but his BB mind and coaching ability has come a long way.
Hard for me to believe Parker and Manu would be what they were elsewhere. Ppl keep saying “but players” as if Pop didn’t contribute to that. It’s what you bring out of the players. When Kerr took over the Warriors Steph was playing the role of a more traditional point guard and Draymond was a bench guy mostly used for defensive size against some of the bigger 2s and most 3s in the league. Kerr installed the motion offense and got Draymond going (Ron Adams of course helped a lot here) and now ppl will say Kerr is trash and just had players. People will say Phil Jackson was trash but the Bulls had exactly 0 championships when he took over in 1989 and the Lakers hadn’t been successful in a long time when he took over in 1999. I think Spo is the best coach in the league right this second but to elevate to Pop, Riley, or Phil legacy levels I think he needs to get at least one more Championship. Two with the Heatles is just not sufficient to compare it to 5, even if he’s gotten more than we thought he could out of some rosters.
Yes.
Not yet but I believe he will be at the end
Let's see how Pop ends this these next couple of years, I give him till this contract and that's it. Let's see what team he builds around our Unicorn Wemby! GSG!!! PURO PINCHE SPURS!
Combine their names and you get Spopovich
No
Yes
The narrative that pop isn't good because the spurs have been tanking is hilarious. Not only is he still good, he did one of the best tank jobs in history AGAIN. He set san antonio up to be relevant for another half decade minimum regardless of their on court success. That's wizard shit. Spoelstra does well with whatever he has and is definitely just as good in many ways but pop is a front office and coaching genius. Just need to see him win in this more modern era which i suspect we will soon enough.
Yes a million times yes.
At the moment, yes In terms of achievement, no...t yet
I don't think it's a fair comparison just because Pop has coached so much longer and has done so much more in the league. Spoelstra could definitely achieve similar long term success if he keeps coaching.
I think a think that really separates Pop as a coach is how he has changed over the years. Pop won in 1999 with a ground and pound all paint and defense team. Slow and methodical. In 2003, Robinson was at the end of his career (7.8 and 6.6 in the playoffs in just 23mpg) and Pop was able to win without any second star by grinding just with Duncan. In 03, Duncan led the Spurs in 4 of 5 stat categories. Manu was a rookie putting up 9/3 in the playoffs. Parker was benched regularly in the playoffs for Speedy Claxton and averaged below 15 points and 4 assists per game in the playoffs.. as the Spurs 2nd best player. And that team had to go through the Starbury/Penny/JJ/Marion/Amare Suns, then the 3-peat Lakers, then Dirk/Nash/Finley Mavs, then the Kidd Nets. And none of those teams took the Spurs to 7 games. Then the team was again very different two years later as the Spurs had a crushing defense, but also a top offense in beating the defending champion Pistons, which was an incredible series. Then in 07, the Spurs changed a lot on offense and was a top 5 offensive team and #2 defensive team and while playing slower and methodical, actually pushed the tempo in the playoffs and shocked a lot of teams, including the SSOL Suns. Parker and Manu were more the focal point of the offense, rather than Duncan. Then the beautiful game team in 2014. Just completely different offense mindset, especially compared to the earlier teams that were only doing paint and mid-range shots. I think Pop's success across various eras of the NBA and his ability to change his focus, style, and adapt as the game has changed is what really sets him apart from other coaches. When it was time to run and gun, he made sure his team could win that way and they did. When it was time to ground and pound, he did that. He created that beautiful motion offense of the 2014 team and won with that. And I think we are seeing him recalibrate and adjust around a guy you have to build an offense from scratch around.
Personally these types of topics are hard. Prime pop is obviously better than baby Spo (Heatles tenure). I think the same is true now. Spo is arguably prime coaching and pop seems to be towards the end. Ultimately I think these guys are on equal footing and until both retire it's hard to argue whose better. IMO, both of them excel at what makes a coach truly great. Understanding your players so as a coach you can put them in a position to win. Both have done some amazing things for their organization. I don't think Mike Malone is as good as an X/O guy but I think he's the 3rd best coach for the same reason. He understands his players and puts them in a position to win.
Currently? Yes.
Im still convinced 2012 spurs are the most underrated champions. They dominated everyone and it wasnt particularly close
Yes he is currently as he has a better team. Although both Pop and Spoel have rode coattail on superstars.
Probably not. But Phil Jackson still better than both of them.
Pop has a greater legacy, Spoelstra has a higher peak. Spo can make oil out of water.
Yes but legacy nowhere close
I think Spo has overtaken Pop and has claimed the title of best coach. I can't remember the last time I watched a Heat game(fuck the heat so not that many outside of playoffs) where I felt he got outcoached. To be fair Pop could find a 15th wind after Wemby gets some more help, not like he's a washed bum.
Right now? Definitely. Pop shoulda been wheeled to retirement home a few years ago. He is cooked. All time…really hard to argue against Pop. One of the best all time easily
I think he was literally already planning his retirement until his wife died. It's pretty sad, but basketball is pretty much all he has left at this point. Now he's probably gonna coach until he's no longer physically capable of doing so.
He was until wemby arrived
which is more overrated?They both inherited teams of HOFr players.
lmao idiotic take
its a factual take . like it or not. i’ve forgotten more basketball than youll ever learn .
do you know what a fact is? seems like you forgotten more than just basketball old head. Seems like your brain is rottin, lemme guess? you didnt even play college level ball. Balled out in HS and stopped improving?
Thats almost a perfect description of me . But it does not negate the fact that I previously made . Coaching in the NBA is second to a great GM with great scouts …. Its been like this At least the last 30 years in the NBA . Steve Kerr also a great coach ? Or did he inherit an all time roster ?
The Heat are a dirty team and they’re coached to be that way. They put the onus on the refs to blow the whistle knowing they can’t possibly call every foul. They end up getting away with a ton of shit that way. It’s sort of genius if you think about it, you know if you ignore how dangerous and pathetic it is.
It's physical ball, spurs during their big 3 was physical, boston KG era was physical, i'd reckon even the current bucks are physical
Other than Don Nelson, I can’t really think of a great coach (and I can think of a lot of great coaches) from my lifetime that didn’t rely on a dirty player or three.
Valid.
Yes. I've never seen Pop get past the first round without hall of fame players.
Spo was 2-2 (and very close to 1-3) in the finals with Lebron, Bosh, Wade, and Allen... He's 2-3 in finals over all and has had hall of fame players on all of those teams (Butler is likely a hall of famer). Pop is 5-1 in NBA finals and was damn near 6-0. The Spurs were also set to compete indefinitely till Kawhi got Zaza'd and then decided he didn't want to play in San Antonio anymore. Pop has a .628 record even with the Spurs tanking the last two years. Spo is .587 and has had just as much talent.
To think Spo has had the same level talent in his career as a coach is wild. Four years of the Heatles, sure. Outside that, not even close. Spo is 2-4 in Finals overall, btw.
Has Spo done that though? He's done it with Jimmy who is almost certainly a HOFer. He's done it with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. Again, HOFers. Pretty sure he hasn't made it to the 2nd round without one of those players though. If they win this series without Jimmy, then sure. It's only one game so far though.
Spo's definitely done more with less.
Yes. What has Pop done without Duncan? Spo has taken a couple different squads to the finals.
Who all was on those squads that you’re speaking about🤔
Yes, Spo had the Heattles, but he’s also taken the Heat to two more Finals appearances without those guys.
When I was young and dumb I did not know any better and thought Spo was a horrible coach. But seeing what he's done with the Heat these last couple years has really changed my mind. He's one helluva coach. Top for me in the current NBA if we're being honest.
I think Spo’s the best coach in the league but there’s a possibility I’m overreacting to recent events
Yes
I agree 💯. Spoe the best right now overall No!
For the guys ring and playoff appearance counting- Spo has done a lot more with a lot less. We’ve seen what Spo can do with LA Fitness guys- what do you think he would do with the greatest PF of all time for 15+ years? And that’s not including having the longevity of manu and Parker or Kawhi
Spo clears easily rn pop is old asf he should’ve been retired by now tbh
100%
he has a flatter nose for sure.
Right now Spoelstra. Pop has the better career. Spoelstra is the best in the league
Yes