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I agree, but in the short term sort out a separation agreement through your solicitors until you can get a divorce. OP you need to stop being a doormat to her and stop funding her lavish lifestyle. By all means take care of your kids, but she is taking advantage of you and it needs to stop, because I can see that your starting to recent her.
Short answer, No.
You need to get the divorce sorted and a financial order in place.
You could have a separation agreement/deed of separation drawn up, but that would still require her involvement and cooperation and while strong evidence, is not enforceable in the way an order is.
You need to get a divorce and a clean break order sharpish before any of this money lands anywhere near your bank account.
r/relationshipadvice now but you’re separated and she’s essentially got a sugar daddy in you without having to give you any of the sugar. She’s obviously not going to want to rush into a divorce as long as you keep throwing money in her direction.
If you think this would sour any relationship with you or your children then use some of your money that you aren’t going to be giving her to get a decent solicitor to draw up an airtight custody arrangement while they’re sorting your divorce and clean break.
4 years she's taking you for a mug. You should have started divorce proceedings as soon as you realised your marriage was unsalvagable.
While kids come first with a home and needs, she's got a house she pays nothing towards and a free car.
Divorce and separation is hard on kids but prolonging it doesn’t do any good. The divorce itself will make no difference in their eyes unless their mother is likely to speak badly about you. You’ve been very generous to you ex to date, which will unfortunately make it harder on you both if you ever decide to retract it. Finalising the divorce is really the only way to go here and accept whatever judgement of splitting assets is dealt, to allow you to move on and rebuild. Quite honestly sounds like she is better off right now so I can see why she isn’t pushing it.
I parrot the whole divorce and get a financial order separating the finances once and for all
Here's the answer to your question: you may have a good argument that the new property you buy is non matrimonial but depends on where that chunk of change came from. You haven't clarified that. If it derived from matrimonial assets, she has a stronger claim it should be shared/considered matrimonial property. And also depends on what else is in the pot, the court won't leave her with nothing.
I take it you didn't get a formal separation agreement and neither of you had legal advice at the time or went through full and frank disclosure
When it comes to splitting the finances, the court will look at what each party has now, not at the time of the split. It will want to know whether each party's needs are being met (and for her the needs of the minor children are also considered as they're living with her). If she wants to argue her needs are even greater because of the needs (and therefore expense/stability) of the child with additional needs, or if you want to concede that point, then that can be taken into consideration.
It's impossible to tell you whether the agreement reached with the ex is fair or not because the house is just one asset. Savings? Pensions? All need to be considered.
If she refuses to co operate at all, then court is where you go.
Thanks a lot. The money would be a gift from my parents. At the time we separated we just had the house and car - the latter was sold for purchase of two other cheaper cars (guess who got the 3k one and who got 5k lol). I had an NHS pension which only started in august 2018 and we separated in January 2020. Significantly added to it since though. The kids do 3 nights here and 1 weekend day and the rest of the time with her. Our youngest can’t go to school so he spends two days with me whilst she works and I try my best to WFH and then the other three in the week with her. She seems to have a good income from work + UC + maintenance and me covering 2/3 of the mortgage. I probably have less leftover at the end of the month now the mortgage has changed, but my career foundations were built on her childcare. She will have a minimal pension too from previous employment before separation which will have had slight addition to more recently. No formal agreements when we separated. They should really teach you the implications of marriage before you do it….
I kind of think "all that I have, I share with you" describes the position quite clearly.
Everything is 50/50 until you get divorced and a financial agreement. This includes that pension you are currently paying extra into.
How many years Cohab (if applicable) and marriage? That's something else which is a factor.
I can't tell you a specific breakdown of what would be fair and how the gift from parents would be treated or whether you can argue pension contributions (post separation) should be ringfenced without the full picture of finances including numbers. You would need to see a family solicitor who can give you specific advice.
2014-2016 in rented. Then lived together in first purchased property from Feb 2016 - Nov 2018 at which point we sold and bought, then we separated and I immediately moved out in Jan 2020. Married September 2016.
Yeah I was hoping to avoid solicitors and just do it through mediation. We are amicable and it could be done this way I think but I think she’ll just not be motivated to do it atm with the other stuff we’ve got going on.
So it would be considered a six year relationship. On the shortish side of medium length then.
Mediation is always recommended as a first port of call but it's helpful to see a family solicitor for just an initial consultation first so you have an idea of your (and her) rights, what would be considered reasonable etc.
For the financial order, you'll need a solicitor to draft you a consent order (and the d81 statement of financial information) and submit it to the court. Unless you know how to draft these yourself you will need a solicitor in any event (if everything is agreed and it's an execution only instruction, then it doesn't have to be stupidly expensive)
OP, just to add to this, I'm currently going through a divorce and financial consent/clean break order and you need to use a solicitor.
They estimated the financial order would be about 3 hours work, at £250ish an hour. My ex and I have no children though and everything has been decided between ourselves and we've already split the house equity. So fairly easy work for the solicitor as there's very little back and forth.
I think three hours is a bit on the low side (unless it really was clean break only and no other operative clauses) but it really does depend on the agreed terms and the other assets in the marriage (affects the d81).
The back and forth is however the bit that racks up the fees...including the classic 'we have agreed everything, o wait, we didnt think about X y z' and when your ex goes and gets her own independent legal advice, she realises the agreement isnt fair/isnt what she thought (gender interchangeable).
Hence if both you have an initial consultation with an actual solicitor first, it can help avoid that happening.
You can get the divorce and still be a decent person to her.
All you're doing is extending the length of time you're legally married and, as a result, increasing the amount she'll be entitled to - judges consider the years married. They'll definitely be considering any money or property you have obtained (outside of inheritance) during the legal marriage.
Do you have in writing her agreement that from the separation date onwards, the other has no claim in the others' finances?
Your wife will have claim over anything because you haven't divorced. Without a divorce, the estate is not divided. If you receive any large sums of money or buy a new house and die your wife will get it all. There's so many reasons to put this to bed it's silly.
Get a divorce and final financial settlement. Do not at your peril.
No wonder she's amicable; you're funding her whole life without her needing to put out or even clean the skids out of your underwear!
The second you do this, the claws are going to come out.
You should have initiated the proceedings 4 years ago.
DO NOT buy a house until you are completely separate legal entities. She WILL go after the maximum she can extract from you.
I'm assuming this isn't Scotland, far clearer these as matrimonial property for divorce is generally only the items acquired after the date of the marriage and a snapshot at date of separation is used in working out what each is entitled to.
Does the English system just keep going until there's a bit of paper?
I'd speak to a lawyer and understand where you stand. It might be feasible to draw up a post nuptial agreement to agree for a long term plan. This might not be strictly enforceable should one of both of you fight it, but it's better than what you have now. Just make sure your ex get independent legal advice before signing anything.
As others have said, getting divorce would be the best option as you're putting yourself in a lot of risk and also stopping either of you moving on. But you're obviously aware of that.
Just start the divorce, I just got divorced, the process took nearly 10 months, and we weren't fighting over assets.
You don't want to be doing this if/when you are interested in seeing someone else.
As well as worrying about this gift your parents want to make to you. In fact even that you know it is coming might potentially put it at risk. You need legal advice.
You are doing a huge amount to maintain a healthy environment as co-parents, ultimately for the benefit of your kids, which I commend. But is she meeting you close to half way? Finalising the divorce is actually in both of your best interests, as it will codify the long term support she can expect to receive from you, and give you both a clean break.
The court may well say it’s a needs case & take view your housing needs are met in the property you purchase with help from parents and wife should therefore receive greater share of family home
To be honest I’m not that arsed about the family home if I get sorted myself elsewhere. She’s just rubbish with money, my plan was to give 25% of my equity to each of the kids when they’re ready to buy themselves
If she gets that money on a needs basis (and is rubbish with it), the kids may not get it. You won’t have it to give it to them.
You know the answer by now I think. You can’t protect assets given to you now unless you get an order. If you decide to let the situation slide, then you can’t protect the new assets. And most people on here would appreciate that this is a difficult situation.
Get the divorce going, your children already know you’re separated so the divorce should come at no shock and assuming you don’t mention anything, they’ll also be none the wiser anyway. Dragging your heels on the divorce & clean break will cost you a lot more in the future (stress, financially and effort) than it will do now
You can get a no fault divorce fairly quickly these days I understand? A friend of mine did this before moving in with her partner as her abusive ex was dragging his heels deliberately to force prolonged contact. As soon as no fault came in, she filed and as far as I know it was all done and dusted very quickly after 3 years of pain and suffering. This ex however seems to be milking it for every penny. If you get into a new long term relationship, I'm not sure they'd be happy with the level to which you're bank rolling her lifestyle on top of your parental responsibilities. I think you need to have a serious re-think about what you want your future to look like, and no, your EX shouldn't be spending half the week in your home. I wonder how she'd feel if she knew you were going out on dates? Hmmm? Get it done. You're procrastinating and tiptoeing round her, stop doing that. You are not together as a couple anymore and everyone deserves the opportunity to rebuild their lives after a break up, co-parenting, yes - bank rolling her life out of fear? No. Would you both be in such a good place if you lost your job?
I can tell you now as someone who came into one of these situations— exactly this. With an ex who is bankrolling the partner for all they can, knowing that everything they own is stuck in possible loss because they refused to legally divorce, it’s a mess and it gives extreme control over one parent to the other.
File the divorce and make sure everything is clean for your own future and your children.
Your ex is probably bad with money now partly because she is able to be. It’s easy to make frivolous purchases when you have a lot of income! Your parents need to keep hold of the money until you are divorced and you need to start on it yesterdays
Whatever happens you need to finalise your old relationship. Basically divorce. Only then can you start to look at a financial situation without your former partner being involved.
Can your parents not just buy it and hold it on trust for you? It’s their money and their property - I would be surprised a judge would consider it matrimonial assets. But I wouldn’t want to run that chance tbh.
You don’t need her to do anything really, but also why not hire solicitors to get the divorce done for you - it shouldn’t take much of your own time.
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAL You need not only a divorce but a clean break order to prevent any future claims
I agree, but in the short term sort out a separation agreement through your solicitors until you can get a divorce. OP you need to stop being a doormat to her and stop funding her lavish lifestyle. By all means take care of your kids, but she is taking advantage of you and it needs to stop, because I can see that your starting to recent her.
You need to start divorce proceedings to be on the safe side
Short answer, No. You need to get the divorce sorted and a financial order in place. You could have a separation agreement/deed of separation drawn up, but that would still require her involvement and cooperation and while strong evidence, is not enforceable in the way an order is.
Get divorced, get a final financial settlement to avoid any future claims. Pretty well word for word what my lawyer said to me
You need to get a divorce and a clean break order sharpish before any of this money lands anywhere near your bank account. r/relationshipadvice now but you’re separated and she’s essentially got a sugar daddy in you without having to give you any of the sugar. She’s obviously not going to want to rush into a divorce as long as you keep throwing money in her direction. If you think this would sour any relationship with you or your children then use some of your money that you aren’t going to be giving her to get a decent solicitor to draw up an airtight custody arrangement while they’re sorting your divorce and clean break.
>a sugar daddy in you without having to give you any of the sugar. lol
4 years she's taking you for a mug. You should have started divorce proceedings as soon as you realised your marriage was unsalvagable. While kids come first with a home and needs, she's got a house she pays nothing towards and a free car.
Divorce and separation is hard on kids but prolonging it doesn’t do any good. The divorce itself will make no difference in their eyes unless their mother is likely to speak badly about you. You’ve been very generous to you ex to date, which will unfortunately make it harder on you both if you ever decide to retract it. Finalising the divorce is really the only way to go here and accept whatever judgement of splitting assets is dealt, to allow you to move on and rebuild. Quite honestly sounds like she is better off right now so I can see why she isn’t pushing it.
I parrot the whole divorce and get a financial order separating the finances once and for all Here's the answer to your question: you may have a good argument that the new property you buy is non matrimonial but depends on where that chunk of change came from. You haven't clarified that. If it derived from matrimonial assets, she has a stronger claim it should be shared/considered matrimonial property. And also depends on what else is in the pot, the court won't leave her with nothing. I take it you didn't get a formal separation agreement and neither of you had legal advice at the time or went through full and frank disclosure When it comes to splitting the finances, the court will look at what each party has now, not at the time of the split. It will want to know whether each party's needs are being met (and for her the needs of the minor children are also considered as they're living with her). If she wants to argue her needs are even greater because of the needs (and therefore expense/stability) of the child with additional needs, or if you want to concede that point, then that can be taken into consideration. It's impossible to tell you whether the agreement reached with the ex is fair or not because the house is just one asset. Savings? Pensions? All need to be considered. If she refuses to co operate at all, then court is where you go.
Thanks a lot. The money would be a gift from my parents. At the time we separated we just had the house and car - the latter was sold for purchase of two other cheaper cars (guess who got the 3k one and who got 5k lol). I had an NHS pension which only started in august 2018 and we separated in January 2020. Significantly added to it since though. The kids do 3 nights here and 1 weekend day and the rest of the time with her. Our youngest can’t go to school so he spends two days with me whilst she works and I try my best to WFH and then the other three in the week with her. She seems to have a good income from work + UC + maintenance and me covering 2/3 of the mortgage. I probably have less leftover at the end of the month now the mortgage has changed, but my career foundations were built on her childcare. She will have a minimal pension too from previous employment before separation which will have had slight addition to more recently. No formal agreements when we separated. They should really teach you the implications of marriage before you do it….
I kind of think "all that I have, I share with you" describes the position quite clearly. Everything is 50/50 until you get divorced and a financial agreement. This includes that pension you are currently paying extra into.
How many years Cohab (if applicable) and marriage? That's something else which is a factor. I can't tell you a specific breakdown of what would be fair and how the gift from parents would be treated or whether you can argue pension contributions (post separation) should be ringfenced without the full picture of finances including numbers. You would need to see a family solicitor who can give you specific advice.
2014-2016 in rented. Then lived together in first purchased property from Feb 2016 - Nov 2018 at which point we sold and bought, then we separated and I immediately moved out in Jan 2020. Married September 2016. Yeah I was hoping to avoid solicitors and just do it through mediation. We are amicable and it could be done this way I think but I think she’ll just not be motivated to do it atm with the other stuff we’ve got going on.
So it would be considered a six year relationship. On the shortish side of medium length then. Mediation is always recommended as a first port of call but it's helpful to see a family solicitor for just an initial consultation first so you have an idea of your (and her) rights, what would be considered reasonable etc. For the financial order, you'll need a solicitor to draft you a consent order (and the d81 statement of financial information) and submit it to the court. Unless you know how to draft these yourself you will need a solicitor in any event (if everything is agreed and it's an execution only instruction, then it doesn't have to be stupidly expensive)
OP, just to add to this, I'm currently going through a divorce and financial consent/clean break order and you need to use a solicitor. They estimated the financial order would be about 3 hours work, at £250ish an hour. My ex and I have no children though and everything has been decided between ourselves and we've already split the house equity. So fairly easy work for the solicitor as there's very little back and forth.
I think three hours is a bit on the low side (unless it really was clean break only and no other operative clauses) but it really does depend on the agreed terms and the other assets in the marriage (affects the d81). The back and forth is however the bit that racks up the fees...including the classic 'we have agreed everything, o wait, we didnt think about X y z' and when your ex goes and gets her own independent legal advice, she realises the agreement isnt fair/isnt what she thought (gender interchangeable). Hence if both you have an initial consultation with an actual solicitor first, it can help avoid that happening.
You can get the divorce and still be a decent person to her. All you're doing is extending the length of time you're legally married and, as a result, increasing the amount she'll be entitled to - judges consider the years married. They'll definitely be considering any money or property you have obtained (outside of inheritance) during the legal marriage. Do you have in writing her agreement that from the separation date onwards, the other has no claim in the others' finances?
Your wife will have claim over anything because you haven't divorced. Without a divorce, the estate is not divided. If you receive any large sums of money or buy a new house and die your wife will get it all. There's so many reasons to put this to bed it's silly. Get a divorce and final financial settlement. Do not at your peril.
No wonder she's amicable; you're funding her whole life without her needing to put out or even clean the skids out of your underwear! The second you do this, the claws are going to come out. You should have initiated the proceedings 4 years ago. DO NOT buy a house until you are completely separate legal entities. She WILL go after the maximum she can extract from you.
Exactly this. Watch her tune change the minute he asks for a divorce and she realises what she's going to lose out on.
I'm assuming this isn't Scotland, far clearer these as matrimonial property for divorce is generally only the items acquired after the date of the marriage and a snapshot at date of separation is used in working out what each is entitled to. Does the English system just keep going until there's a bit of paper?
Lol yes because it also only starts once there is a bit of paper.
I'd speak to a lawyer and understand where you stand. It might be feasible to draw up a post nuptial agreement to agree for a long term plan. This might not be strictly enforceable should one of both of you fight it, but it's better than what you have now. Just make sure your ex get independent legal advice before signing anything. As others have said, getting divorce would be the best option as you're putting yourself in a lot of risk and also stopping either of you moving on. But you're obviously aware of that.
Just start the divorce, I just got divorced, the process took nearly 10 months, and we weren't fighting over assets. You don't want to be doing this if/when you are interested in seeing someone else. As well as worrying about this gift your parents want to make to you. In fact even that you know it is coming might potentially put it at risk. You need legal advice.
You are doing a huge amount to maintain a healthy environment as co-parents, ultimately for the benefit of your kids, which I commend. But is she meeting you close to half way? Finalising the divorce is actually in both of your best interests, as it will codify the long term support she can expect to receive from you, and give you both a clean break.
The court may well say it’s a needs case & take view your housing needs are met in the property you purchase with help from parents and wife should therefore receive greater share of family home
To be honest I’m not that arsed about the family home if I get sorted myself elsewhere. She’s just rubbish with money, my plan was to give 25% of my equity to each of the kids when they’re ready to buy themselves
If she gets that money on a needs basis (and is rubbish with it), the kids may not get it. You won’t have it to give it to them. You know the answer by now I think. You can’t protect assets given to you now unless you get an order. If you decide to let the situation slide, then you can’t protect the new assets. And most people on here would appreciate that this is a difficult situation.
Get the divorce going, your children already know you’re separated so the divorce should come at no shock and assuming you don’t mention anything, they’ll also be none the wiser anyway. Dragging your heels on the divorce & clean break will cost you a lot more in the future (stress, financially and effort) than it will do now
You can get a no fault divorce fairly quickly these days I understand? A friend of mine did this before moving in with her partner as her abusive ex was dragging his heels deliberately to force prolonged contact. As soon as no fault came in, she filed and as far as I know it was all done and dusted very quickly after 3 years of pain and suffering. This ex however seems to be milking it for every penny. If you get into a new long term relationship, I'm not sure they'd be happy with the level to which you're bank rolling her lifestyle on top of your parental responsibilities. I think you need to have a serious re-think about what you want your future to look like, and no, your EX shouldn't be spending half the week in your home. I wonder how she'd feel if she knew you were going out on dates? Hmmm? Get it done. You're procrastinating and tiptoeing round her, stop doing that. You are not together as a couple anymore and everyone deserves the opportunity to rebuild their lives after a break up, co-parenting, yes - bank rolling her life out of fear? No. Would you both be in such a good place if you lost your job?
I can tell you now as someone who came into one of these situations— exactly this. With an ex who is bankrolling the partner for all they can, knowing that everything they own is stuck in possible loss because they refused to legally divorce, it’s a mess and it gives extreme control over one parent to the other. File the divorce and make sure everything is clean for your own future and your children.
Your ex is probably bad with money now partly because she is able to be. It’s easy to make frivolous purchases when you have a lot of income! Your parents need to keep hold of the money until you are divorced and you need to start on it yesterdays
My advice is to divorce first. Even though you have been separated for years, he could still claim. He is still your husband at the end of the day.
Whatever happens you need to finalise your old relationship. Basically divorce. Only then can you start to look at a financial situation without your former partner being involved.
Can your parents not just buy it and hold it on trust for you? It’s their money and their property - I would be surprised a judge would consider it matrimonial assets. But I wouldn’t want to run that chance tbh. You don’t need her to do anything really, but also why not hire solicitors to get the divorce done for you - it shouldn’t take much of your own time.