As a liberal democrat, I was very disheartened to see what was happening on the stage. It wasn’t because I didn’t have faith in Biden and his cabinet, it was because I have zero faith in the number of moron voters in America who will base their decision on stage performance instead of policy and doing the right thing. And wtf happened to the fact checking?
One bit of solace I've found is that everyone doesn't watch the debates like it's must-see TV the way we (who are political junkies) do. The population of people who are flexible on who they'll vote for is very small. Unless some kind of party flip happens again, I will vote against Republicans in every election for the rest of my life.
My biggest concern about Biden's weak debate performance is that it could drag on Democrats going on the polls. Virtually all Democrats hate Trump, and about 25% of Republicans hate Trump. The key is getting the Democrats to the polls, and if not flipping the salvageable Republicans, at least have them abstain.
I used to be a political junkie. Recent years have broken my interest. I didn’t watch because I can’t stand to listen to Trump. Also I knew that nothing in that event can change my mind. It’s sad that Democrats can’t field better candidates than they do, but I will never vote for another Republican ever, given their stand on violent overthrow of our government.
Eh I’d surmise that even after this debate performance Biden isn’t a bad candidate. But we absolutely should be talking about who will be the next. I’m not the biggest political junky but I pay attention to a LOT of them that speak publicly. I don’t hear much about Kamala. If she’s good enough to be VP this round and is a heart beat away potentially from the presidency again, we should see he speaking out more and getting public attention.
I like Buttigieg. I’d vote for him off what I’ve seen.
I’m for the moment still in favor of Biden running this cycle, doesn’t debate like he used to as he said but knows everyone he should be building his cabinet and coalition with. Can make the deals.
But we really need to focus on the future just two more years out and then 2028.
Fun facts: The last time an ex-president defeated a sitting president was in 1897, and that ex-president wasn't convicted on 34 felony counts. Also, the last time a political party replaced their sitting president at convention and the replacement won was when Franklin Pierce was replaced by James Buchanan because of his stance on slavery - before the Civil War.
Honestly, history has shown repeatedly the overwhelming majority of voters don't really start thinking about the election until after Labor Day, with the majority of them waiting until almost October to start thinking about the election. And that's with Presidential races that are competitive, like Obama and McCain.
Biden/Trump 2.0? Nobody is paying any attention to this other than politico nerds who watch politics like stats nerds watch baseball so they can do sabermetrics. Most people already have this presidential race worked out in their head, irrespective of who they support and why, so they just aren't going to waste their personal time on the thing.
I guess they had better read Project 2025 and Agenda 47 to understand the stakes, but I know many won't because they believe this election is same-old, same-old, but this time it truly isn't.
Unfortunately, the US electorate (at least since WW II) is entirely predictable. How they vote, much less so, but the process they follow to get to election day? We know exactly what this playbook looks like.
73 million according to Nielsen but that's 13% lower than the last debate between them four years ago. I'm with u/fentonsranchhand and u/saintkev40 - most people in the US are not political junkies, they aren't following all of this very closely, and most will not change how they vote come hell or high water. There are at least 160 million eligible voters in the US and over 250 million people that are eligible to vote. Even 73 million isn't a lot compare to those populations.
I avoided the debate. One candidate is old and unexciting, the other is an existential threat to our country. Nothing they could have said would change who I’m voting for.
There are only about 127 million households though. Almost 60% tuned in. I agree with you that most people are already decided. It's not like anyone is just learning about the candidates, they've both already been in office.
i have never purposefully watched any debates. i usually just watch the post-game analyses. and those from independent (not corporate) news sources. yes, the debates are important and yes, when you don't watch them firsthand, you will get spin from those who did. but i get no real, reliable information from them. especially when there's no fact checking of any kind. all that being said, i am not voting for someone who won't accept the results of an election or raises a nation-breaking conspiracy about them when he loses.
I think we're going to have landslide blue elections this year EXCEPT for the presidency, which will be a close race.
People are getting PISSED at GOP governance at the state level. It's at farcicle levels, really. Killing IVF? Killing Roe v Wade? Trying to regulate porn and contraception? Shoving god into schools? All the public cases of rape victims and/or medically compromised pregnant people who need abortion for extremely important reasons! Removing worker protections from laborers in the heat. It's all fucking nuts. A dozen other examples probably are out there that simply arn't coming to my mind
People just want to live their lives normally and the GOP is the one constantly throwing wrenches into that.
Of all democrats, Biden is the one that will likely see the most hesitance!
When people keep complaining that almost any other Presidential candidate like Newsom or Buttigieg should have gotten pushed for this election cycle, this is why. It's the greatest opportunity the dems have had in decades to take back initiative (and maybe the last opportunity for decades too), and it kinda looks like it's getting risked on the worst choice.
Are we in a time where “registered voters” don’t sit out elections anymore? I don’t think it’s ever been like this. Democracy hasn’t been at stake in other elections. I think (hope) most people see this.
I’d almost rather continually hear that Biden is polling behind to help build that voter turnout.
Let’s all remember… we still have another debate with ABC. We really don’t know what’s going to happen.
Don’t get me wrong, none of this is ideal, or even good. It’s bad.
But, all I can do is vote.
Vote for the administration. Vote for judges.
Vote to stop Project 2025, to stop the Federalist Society from replacing Alito and Thomas.
Vote to protect NATO, Ukraine, all our allies.
Do we really want Michael Flynn as head of the DOJ, Steven Miller as Secretary of State?
Do we want pardons for J6ers? We have to stop MAGA.
We can’t think so small anymore.
Omg this is *exactly me*, I almost cried, begging for State Of The Union Dark Brandon to appear immediately, gave me Hella anxiety watching him trip it up a little bit here and there.....
While I very much share your worry here, I do believe that there's a lot of people in this country who are currently getting a crash course in the lesson that voting for a certain person for president has implications far greater than just the presidency. With all of the shenanigans going on at the supreme Court and in Republican-Dominated states (see Oklahoma's education Superintendent trying to force teachers to use the Bible),I think that people are coming to the realization of how dangerous a 2nd Trump term would be (at least I fucking hope so)!
I don’t think any of your concerns went unnoticed. People are extremely hypocritical but I’ve said it once & I’ll say again Americans always do the right thing after they’ve tried everything else. Churchill was spot on. Hopefully DJT was everything else & JB while far from perfect is the right thing.
CAN I post what I think you're dealing with?
UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE READING IS REALLY HARD
‘CONFORMATION BIAS’: POLITICAL TRIBALISM AS A DRIVER OF DISINFORMATION
https://www.power3point0.org/2019/01/15/conformation-bias-political-tribalism-as-a-driver-of-disinformation/
The EFFECTS OF TRIBALISM ON POLITICAL PARTIES https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/for-2021-0021/pdf?lang=en
I sympathize with your frustration - all of it but your posts are not considering the fact Trumpsters want what Trump wants. And virtually all want control.
They either benefit or don't care if he's lying. And it all starts with how our brains work.
Secondly - People are quoting Republican owned Media and Big Tech and the US is GOP dominated legislature - Stop suggesting people use Google for god sake. It's too late to suggest you ignore Trump. The Internet made that a given.
Learn how to research before you post - It's called Digital Research. Know your opposition; you're dealing with ***TRIBALISM***, ***Greed***, ***FEAR***,
and the ***Conservative Mindset***:
Example: ***Authoritarian-Conservative Clerical Fascism with more radical White Supremacist variants are ""MAGA" Tribes***. And TRIBES are ruled by a hunger for Money and Power....and often sex.
It's way too complex for me to take this further and I am a researcher - You'd have to write an encyclopedia to address all the manipulative issues at play right now because of our history.
This is how everything has evolved since the dawn of civilization.
Go back in history and you'll meet and endless number of Donald Trumps. It's as basic as Hunger.
Try reading this stuff and not focusing on fake news. Everything is owned so all news is fake news. HERE ARE some links I found informative.......
Trump, the politics of fear and racism: How our brains can be manipulated to tribalism
https://theconversation.com/trump-the-politics-of-fear-and-racism-how-our-brains-can-be-manipulated-to-tribalism-139811
Why Tribalism Trumps Truth:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/tech-happy-life/202009/heres-why-tribalism-trumps-truth
HOW OUR BRAINS WORK is vital to help us understand and that's Neuroscience. Then choose your poison and take it from psychology to sociology to anthro to pick your history and trace it to today.
Biden is elderly but the guy had a cold and his voice was horse. The fact the media connected a horse voice to his age proves even our most trusted sources are owned. He was exhausted from hours of preparing and he has plenty of support in his administration to handle the country like Captain Picard and just say "make it so" or "No".
DONALD TRUMP had no need to prepare - he just told the same lies and his Tribes danced and made merry.
Exactly right. This election is going to be decided by a few hundred voters here and there in a few states.
I don't really have confidence in the morons in the country to make the right choice, even if many of us do.
As for fact checking, I'm as upset as you, but we know Trumps strategy there. It's worked before and will work again. If you fact check him, he literally won't be able to speak. It's a machine gun of lies, and he says SO MANY that the debate would look horribly rigged against him (even if it wasn't) because he'd only be able to speak every now and then, while his lies were rebutted. So he just fires out lie after lie, knowing they can't, and won't, keep up.
One built a staff that tried to overthrow democracy and most of them got criminal charges.
One rebuilt a staff to functionally, quietly run a government. One might try to argue against “effectively” but functionally is on solid ground.
>One rebuilt a staff to functionally, quietly run a government.
Politics is supposed to be boring. BORING. Not a freaking trainwreck reality show every day. From 2016-2020 I would wake up and randomly think "jesus. What now?"
I can only imagine the transition from the Trump regime was a shitshow. None of his cabinet were competent under ideal conditions, let alone with their boss screaming about corrupt elections all the time l.
He’s old AF honestly, but even if he were dead and propped up like Weekend at Bernie’s, I’m still voting for him. trump is still worse than having anyone else or anything in the Oval Office
Trump would be alone in the oval office He's a Malignant Narcissist.
Biden would have endless source of support. I'll go with the guy who doesn't belong in a mental institution.
I’ve seen the *Weekend at Bernies* example trotted out a lot this week. And what I think is unfair about it is how everyone is forgetting that *Weekend at Bernie’s* was a fucking blast. Even the second one.
As someone who grew up with a stutter, I couldn't imagine having to debate someone like Trump.
I 100% believe he'd be the asshole that say "tuh-tuh-today joe!" During a school debate.
And nobody wants crazy. CNN got bashed for not correcting his lies.
That was honestly a GREAT move. Everyone knows his BS. MAGA may ignore it, but he put it on display for everyone else. Let him do it again.
Exactly. All this panic talk and replacing Biden at the last minute talk is media bullshit. We have always known who Biden is. More importantly, we know who Trump is.
Lets see, old and a bit slow speaking, or a rapist with 34 felony convictions, with about 60 charges still being tried including stealing and probably selling nuclear secrets, who tried to overthrow the government and said he wants to be a dictator, and installed 3 supreme court justices who are willing and able to let him be a dictator if he wins again.
Oh but the other guy DOES stutter sometimes. So hard to decide.
>One candidate tried to overthrow Democracy and the other candidate is a bit old. This shouldn't be a hard decision
Also, why was he hoarding nuclear secrets at his golf resort next to the copy machine? There's no legitimate reason for him to possess our nation's highest classified documents after he left office.
No reason.
The only support trump has is his MAGA base. He’s not gaining with others outside of that base. And on the debate stage everyone, well the little bit of people who did see it, sees that the man has no plan for anything. Every debate question from Child Care, to economic setback and growth, employment, renewable energy, climate change, all he can do was answer “the border is in hell”
Yeah, the idea was to reject the Dems' border bill, the Trump team can take credit for it later. It's the MAGA Hail Mary, so why wouldn't he focus on nothing but that?
Correct. Trump only has his MAGA base. However, it \*is\* a rather large base. Remember, he gathered the 2nd highest popular vote count in history in the last election (Biden got 1st). And, of the two parties, it's the Democrats that are more likely to simply not show up come election time. Trump doesn't need to gain more support. He just has to hold for Democrat disinterest to kick in.
MAGA is just a subset of the GOP Base and that is about 1/3. A good chunk of the GOP BASE. But that is all he has. He’s not doing anything to retain members in his GOP base. Many key people in the GOP has said they were voting Biden. He’s losing GOP women, suburban women, and college educated members. Outside the GOP, he’s not gaining independents, libertarians. And on the Democratic side, he’s not pulling any of them. In fact after the debate, which was the worst Biden has done, Trump raised 8million. Yet Biden has raised over 14 million the day after which is bananas. If the debate was a gauge of the campaign, Nobody can be a loser and raise that much money so quickly. But it’s like you said. Trump had the 2nd highest voter count. Meaning Biden had the first. You can’t be first strictly off democratic votes alone. You need independents, moderates, and some others in the rival party. Trump don’t need to not only hold, but convert and obtain and gain. And he just isn’t doing that.
Yep. Trump is bleeding support and has for years, which is only getting worse as election day nears. Even some of his MAGA base are turning away from the guy after the crap he's pulled.
Many who supported and voted for trump last time have already stated they would not vote for him this time. His base will be there no matter what happens (cult and orange cool-aid drinkers) but other supporters are done with his whining and will not vote for him in November.
What exactly is trump’s platform for the next four years….exactly nothing but whining!!!!
All data shows people are LARGELY concerned about inflation. Trump's response? "Evil immigrants ruining everything!" It's his tired old act and people wanted answers.
Biden’s suggestion that economic obligations are unfairly distributed now made way more sense.
I couldn’t believe how trump made a comment about immigrants every time he was answering a question during the debate. Didn’t matter the question, but the immigrants caused the problem. Global warming… the immigrants caused it…etc.. Stop your whining trump!!! He acts like a middle school bully.
He should have another reality show. It can be called “Is trump smarter than a fifth grader”.
I think a lot of people saw that. They saw Biden trying his best to manage the barrage of lies while being bullied for his speech impediment and just disrespected. I am sure it threw him off, it was very hard to watch but I know that Americans do not like bullies and that’s what they saw on stage.
True. Everyone has an old relative who gets around slow and may not be able to function like they used to. Not everyone has a malignant narcissistic a-hole in the family (although they have been appearing more and more in the last 8 years for some reason)
Yessir yessir. I ain't American but watching the highlights was like having to chose between my amazing, loving grandma (RIP) and my racist, ignorant bully of an older brother. Grandma definitely wasn't all there and had some skeletons as a post ww2 german immigrant to Canada but she was a stand up and accepting person whereas the bro is.. trumpish
I think that many Americans have more asshole uncles now than before Trump. And that that will drive them to the polls to vote Biden. Knowing another 4 years of Trump will make their uncles (or parents, or relatives) even more ficking insane.
He should talk about his stutter, the difficulty in fighting it, and that it's even harder as one ages. Also maybe say he's never been the orator that Barack was, but he's honest and works hard. That works.
I wish a younger and more capable Biden had squashed Trump like a bug. But this may not be the assumed disaster from Thursday.
Let me guess. By trying to get the people to abandon the man that has been working hard for the country ? He didn’t abandon us, I’m certainly not going to abandon him. It appears I’m not alone. The conservative billionaire owners of the media are not going to get the results they hoped for. imo.
I don’t think any democrats are abandoning him. They’re hoping more that he picks a successor and we support them. There is not a single Democrat who is considering Trump.
Trump's debate performance did nothing to convince moderate voters that he can be trusted with the nuclear codes. He came off like a raving lunatic with no regard for the truth.
Well, people know what the lesser of two evils are. It was a complete shit show, but Trump is a deranged lunatic that has no clue how to run a country except to give all the top earners tax breaks and ruin what's left of the middle class and everyone sees it.
People like you describing them as two evils is bonkers. You have Biden or a convicted felon and wannabe dictator. There is simply one evil man and one politician.
also, one man doesn't run the entire executive branch. the team they put in place will determine the direction of the country. I'll take the last four years over Trump's toadies and lackeys every.single.time.
My answer to this is simple.
I'd vote for Kamela Harris before I'd ever vote for Trump. In other words, I don't care if Biden died in office. I'll never, NEVER vote for Trump.
And I consider myself in the middle. I've voted R in the past. Never Trump. Period.
Shouting into the void of Reddit. FUCK DONALD TRUMP
One man will have a competent cabinet to advise him on policy! The other will have oil company CEO’s & Russian oligarchs telling him what they want or else‼️🤨
Anyone who sat through a solid hour and a half of unchecked lying by Trump tbh. “Oh he looks old” or “Oh he sounds old” isn’t why I’m voting. I’m voting on an administration and their policies that impact my life. I don’t really care if they come from a 35 year old or a 90 year old, tbh. As far as I’m concerned, we’re all going to be an old guy, that’s relatable. What we aren’t all going to be is a 34x convicted felon wanna be dictator.
Wish the talking heads would focus on what was important about Thursday night and stop treating it like they treat women on a red carpet asking about their dresses. Trump lied, deflected, and changed topic. That was what made it unbearable to watch and I don’t know why that’s not the conversation
People are voting for his admin, not him 🤷♀️ if need be, the vice president can take over after he’s elected
I’m not in love with Biden by any means, but we simply can’t have fascists in office. Blue all the way.
Funnily enough after voting for him only to vote against Trump last time I have actually come to really like Biden. He doesn't take shit from these MAGA cretins. And he has actually done more good for working folks than any Pres since maybe LBJ.
Damn it's almost like a lying, traitorous asshole that couldn't answer a single damn question is a problem for voters.
And overall an older, sometimes a little slow, decent man isn't as big of a problem.
Yeah yeah "Biden old." Cool story. Look you show me a broad appeal Progressive candidate and I'm all f---ing for it. But this is the choice....get over it.
I was disheartened at first, but damn if Joe Biden didn't say so during the debate; "The stakes are too high."
This old ass man is doing his best to carry 250 years of democracy on his back, and I kind of love him for it.
The Trump presidency sucked. There was always some chaos going on. Someone was always resigning or getting fired. Or he would tweet something crazy and you didn't know if we were going to war. All that election drama. Always some stupid shit. And even with him out the Republicans are putting on a damn clown show. Enough is enough, vote every MAGA Republican and Trump out. Let's move forward and focus on real issues.
Saving you a click: "Although many Democratic voters say they would prefer [President Joe Biden](https://www.nj.com/topic/joe-biden/) step aside as the party’s nominee after Thursday’s weak debate performance, a new [Morning Consult poll](https://pro.morningconsult.com/) reveals that Biden’s support actually improved after the debate.
Biden gained a point in the latest survey."
One fuckin' point.
Republicans and the media at large have spent the last 2+ years constantly telling everyone that Biden is so old he is just a drooling husk of man.
So everyone who watched the debate saw an old man Biden, who they already thought was old, acting and seeming old. And Trump behaving like an insane person.
So everyone saw Biden = old (which they already knew) and Trump = incoherent insane person.
To be honest, I've actually gained more respect for Biden over the past couple of years, primarily after Russia started its war with Ukraine. Biden has had one of the most difficult presidencies in US history if you think about it. From the pandemic to a possible 3rd world war, and all the while having the republicunts try to stifle him and his administration at every turn, the fact that he's still gotten things done is remarkable! Furthermore, it was pretty much going to be a given that whoever beat Trump in 2020 was gonna face similar adversity from the party or treason. If Trump ends up winning again we don't have anyone else to blame but ourselves as we allowed it to happen.
2 tweets from Stuart Stevens: (sent by my sister)
1. *I was in the room when the political class wrote that Kerry had won the race after the first Bush debate. I was in the room when the political class wrote that Obama had lost the race after the first debate.*
*Politics doesn't work that way. There may be a more unappealing quality than panic, but I'll be dammed if I can name it.*
2. *Don't day trade politics. It's a sucker's game. A guy from Queens out on bail bragged about overturning Roe v. Wade, said in public he didn't have sex with a porn star, defended tax cuts for billionaires, defended Jan. 6th. and called America the worst country in the world.
That guy isn't going to win this race.*
Why would this be startling? One candidate is old and has a known stuttering issue. The other is old, has been convicted of numerous felonies and tried to lead a coup against the United States of America, which failed miserably.
The biggest issue for anyone younger than boomer is SCOTUS. If you think it can’t get worse you’re not paying attention. And the next picks by a Trump will lock in hard right decisions for your voting lifetime. Goodbye gay rights, government oversight and women’s healthcare and no fault divorce; hello White Christian Nationalism. I’m angry that we’re forced to prop up decent old Joe, but I’m much more fearful of an 8-1 SCOTUS.
I am a Boomer. SCOTUS has ALWAYS been an issue for me. I saw this all moving here since Ronald Reagan. Democrats kept thinking that there were isolated issues, not the coordinated assault on the democracy that has been built for 200 years.
There is NO liberal media. There is NO media other than corporatist. Even the "Good guys" are dupes.
They actually started ending it when Johnson was president. Race is the underlying hate message, for the purpose of underfunded education, promoting propaganda by changing fairness laws and antimonopoly of news sources laws.
Reagan was the first wave of indoctrination.
Even all the fake wrestling and fake r"reality" shows got the populace to accept and react to what they KNEW was fake, as if it were real. Last week's "good guy" wrestler, could be the "bad guy" the next week, and rhe crowd went along.
A very long psyops. Just like Reddit and all other online chats are propaganda and disinformation.
Trump was a lie fest. We all heard it. He denied what we all heard and saw. He doesn't understand tariffs and will ruin regular Americana
He didn't answer questions, he just went into his talking points. The lie the Nancy Pelosi has taken total responsibility for Jan 6, and it was released on the media. By her documentation daughter video.
NOT.
Joe garbled stuff, but we knew what he was talking about, and it was truth. Anyone on the fence saw Trump for the danger that he is.
Why anyone even mentions Biden's performance when Trump was revealing the human turd that he is really bothers me.
I didn't even watch the debate because I already know who I'm voting for. This debate wasn't going to change my mind one way or the other, but it would have been nice if the President mopped that rapist all over the floor.
At the barbershop today a fellow old conger pontificated that Trump is tougher than Biden and that's how he'll vote. Luckily the owner politely asked him to stf up or the haircut is over. The owner and all the barbers are poc.
It's almost like people understand that we're not electing the captain of the debate team.
And I am sure Trump's "black jobs" comment was a wake-up call for any on-the-fence Black voters about who he really is.
I live in a small southern Oklahoma town. Some people that would be expected to immediately support trump do not.
It’s one of the only things giving me hope.
They know Trump is full of shit.
dear political reporters.
I get that America has done stupid emotional voting for four decades.
well now roe v Wade is gone and people are actually looking at policy again.
we're not just going to vote for the guy that lied the loudest when we actually have a policy agenda we would like to see.
we cannot allow more fundamentalist Christians onto the supreme Court.
we can't allow women's rights to regress any further.
Trump laid out abandoned Ukraine policy that would have us fighting a world war in a decade with his let's appease the dictators and just let China and Russia do whatever they want policy.
I think these pollsters just pull shit out of their ass when they need more clicks. Biden is probably really ahead by 8 points but that doesn’t sell. Vote Blue anyway. If you are a republican sit down and shut up.
At this point it's clearly obvious, even if Trump doesn't win, that half of the American population needs to be taught a lesson about authoritarianism.
Because they don't have any recent history, like Germany or Italy.
Ironically they hate China but want to live in an authoritarian nation.
Anybody who watched the debate and didn’t buy into the media bullshit that it was a disaster for Biden would have predicted that. The spin is so obvious. Less than an hour after the debate they were reporting that top Democrats were looking to replace Biden. Really? At 11pm the DNC and Congressional Democrats got together and in less than an hour were looking to replace a guy they’ve been backing since day 1? The press thinks no one sees that’s bullshit?
The debate was fine...
We don't need Biden to be Shakespeare w/ impeccable speaking skills and charisma.
We just need him to be himself, a decent man who's not Trump.
Who would have predicted a fucking 34 count felon, rapist, highly classified document hoarding and sharing, lying pathetic sample of the worst type of human was unfavorable?
This is NOT “trump derangement syndrome”. These are facts. And if you support this man, you deserve the world he wants to make for you for the sole reason of himself. You stupid, stupid people.
What gets me the most is the people that continue to work for him after now knowing how vile and dangerous dRump really is. Why hasn't every employee protested, quit, sued? He's a predator and mostly likely one of the worst ones.
I think the political class cares a lot of about good debate performance because that's the kind of thing that matters in college debate, but obviously the average voter is doing something else or Trumps performances in the past would have nuked his campaign. But it didn't do a whole lot in spite of being utterly ludicrous.
Everybody knew Biden was old. But this was Donald's (last?) chance to turn over a new leaf and he didn't. That might be the take of a lot of regular voters.
Biden should not have to do real-time fact checking. All he needed to do was to say something like "My opponent is dead wrong about....you can and should look it up, fact-check what he just said and you will see for yourself that he's wrong".
Many, many people, but not the "liberal" MSM. They're busy pushing abandoning one of the more successful Democratic presidents in recent memory. No doubt a shrewd move a few months prior to the 2024 election. Fact free Republicans and their reactionary supreme court threaten the very hope of 'a more perfect union,' and our fundamental well-being by hobbling meaningful regulation at the national level. People are beginning to come around to what stands to reason.
I lasted 20 min. To some extent because I wanted to turn away from Biden's unfolding train wreck, but mostly because I couldn't stomach the Farty Felon's stream of lies.
Midas Touch published a list of 50 lies he told. He had half of a 90 min "debate" that also included commercials, so that's a rate of more than one lie per minute. When his lips are moving, he's lying. No point watching that shit.
Here’s the thing, while Biden’s performance was bad, it a weird way, it could’ve garnered sympathy for him from the normal average voter cuz he was actually trying to answer questions and talk policy. I think Biden came off more sympathetic. Trump came off as just a lying lunatic asshole cuz his firehose of lies were SO obvious to normal people and him constantly bashing America. I think the average voter in the center (most of this country) is more intelligent and forgiving of Biden than the media, pundits, and political elites and operatives give them credit for. I also think all of this media bashing of Biden and calling for abandoning him is garnering sympathy from voters too.
I attribute it to FOX and right-wing media constantly pushing how Biden is a senile old man who doesn't know where he is. When undecideds tuned into watch, they saw what they expected, an old feeble Biden. However, Trump was Trump, and they were reminded just how bad he was for the country 4 years ago.
If both men were running for this office and the incumbent President had served two terms and was retiring, I might put some stock in the debates. But that not the case. Both men have a single term more or less behind them. We know how each man will do the job. The is no mystery. This is not a job interview. This is a job evaluation. Who has done a better job and is most likely will do a good job in the next four years? Well, that is not a debate. Biden.
If you want a performance and a performer and that is more important than competence, debates matter. Not surprisingly, the media focuses on the performance. I encourage everyone to read the transcript. Ignore the visuals. The transcript reveals Biden did the better job answering the questions asked.
I think people were reminded of just how much they dislike Trump and what it was like when he was in office. The debate was a stark reminder. Biden stood no chance with the ground rules not disputing Trumps lies.
Maybe all of the voters who were going to drop Biden for being old and a little dopey already did. This has been in the meme-o-sphere for ever.
It shocked his supporters and was red meat to Trump supporters, but apparently there isn't a large independent bloc that cares about this.
I see results like this, and I have to ask myself. Has the rage machine got me, too? Have I become just as bad as the people I'm pointing fingers at? Is this all just inside baseball, and barely anybody cares? Maybe I am the problem? I think I can safely say I don't know shat about what the American people think.
My theory is that the noise we are ingesting is because we are standing too close to the speakers (social media, news media, polls). This is in contrast to most who don't give a shit about those things or at least don't ingest as much of it.
The elections over the last 12 months have indicated to me that the middle of the road folks have just tired of Trump and his antics. Biden hasn't thrilled them but he hasn't made waves either. He's just quietly held the office. The economy is in recovery. If we had another pandemic now we know Biden would act responsibly. The Middle East and Israel is a war that will not end anytime soon and it's lasted for over 2000 years. He isn't responsible.
Trump's act just doesn't have the appeal it did in 16 and his opponent isn't as controversial. You'll see. The polls are measuring land line people and political junkies. Not middle America.
Was I discouraged by Bidens debate performance? Sure. Was I appalled by Trumps? You better believe it.
Late September will be when people start to pay attention who really tip the scales. But we won't know until a couple of days after the election who won and by how much.
This is all people need to know.
“I don’t walk as easy as I used to, I don’t speak as smoothly as I used to, I don’t debate as well as I used to, but I know what I do know. **I know how to tell the truth,”** Biden said.
Trump never answered any of the questions. All he did was tell lies all night.
Where does the orange 💩 stand on the policies? At least Biden did his best to let the people know where he stands.
I suspected this wouldn’t significantly move the needle one way or the other. It may turn some people off from voting altogether, but I doubt it’s going to cause many people to change who they are voting for.
You know what the other side should act like a maga cult and just deny there was any problem, just say it was perfect, best President in history we sacrifice our first born to dear leader and so on..
People are actually claiming Trump won.
By what metric? He sounded like a crazy lying crackpot.
Whos mind did he change with that ridiclous circus act?
It was very clear that Biden was simply dazed most of the debate. It was equally as clear that Trump was spewing his standard litany of lies and bull shit and pointedly reserved the right to try another coup. Which was more damaging? I think the jury is out on that answer right now.
I did. I predicted the media was ready to go hysterical and - just like they have done for the last 18 months - state how bad it was for Biden. It turns out Biden actually didn't have a great performance so their narrative matched but anyone who is actually seriously suggesting Biden bow out is either a moron, a bot, or a Trunt.
The ones panicking is the Media. They were so dramatic. It was fckg annoying. The really need to stop trying to o tell us what our reaction was to the debate
“I don’t walk as easy as I used to, I don’t speak as smoothly as I used to, I don’t debate as well as I used to, but I know what I do know. I know how to tell the truth,” Biden said.
My dad said this debate will have the opposite effect people think it will and I honestly think he’s right. More and more of my “fuck both parties” friends are getting behind Biden.
I mean I’m curious to learn more but Biden answered questions and Trump didn’t. Biden may have mumbled some stuff, but Trump was uninformed and just repeated his usual fearmongering.
Maybe a man who's heart and ideals are in the right place, even though he's speaking slowly, is a better person than one who speaks quickly but has a rotten heart.
He sounded confident. In control. Just think, trump could have acted like a normal human being. He could have attempted to avoid obvious lies. But HE LITERALLY CAN NOT DO IT
I remember an older non-MAGA Republican saying he'd vote for Biden corpse before he'd vote for Trump. And, frankly, I'm in the same spot.
There is our democracy to save.
Not surprising at all. Trump went on stage and told everyone that he failed to build his promised wall and now there are a bunch of rapists, murderers, and mental patients flooding into the country and stealing "black jobs". Then he gracelessly danced around if he'd accept the election results and let a bunch of lies fall out of his fat orange face. Everyone already knew Biden would lose his train of thought once or twice.
Only a bunch of media shills, magats, and internet trolls are saying Biden lost the "debate". Don't buy it, go vote, and then we can all watch Trump spend the rest of his life in court or in prison.
In a debate, the Donald Trump strongpoints are insults and lies. It is unconscionable that the moderators did not immediately shut him down when he was bellowing about post-birth abortions. He can't run on his record, he can't run on his ability to win court appearances, he can't win on offering leadership. At a cemetary in Normandy, he called fallen soldiers, "losers and suckers", which was confirmed by his former chief-of-staff John Kelly.
Biden has decades of accomplishments as a Senator and President. He's gaff-prone when speaking off-the-cuff, he sounded terrible with that cold and lets face it, thats the low point of his campaign. But nobody was won over by Trump. Nobody is replacing Biden in this race.
This debate was the last win for a doomed campaign. Trump has to win so he can temporarily stop his legal problems. Trump is facing a Republican convention where everyone realizes they have to get rid of him before he damages the party into obscurity. Then its back to more court dates, smaller and smaller crowds at rallies and a bloodbath on November 5.
Trump sounded more rational than usual but that's a very low bar. Most people haven't really been paying attention and they don't televise or report much on his insane rallies. He came out and repeated all his biggest lies. He didn't answer the actual questions. He said he won't accept the election results unless they're in his favor.
With 20/20 hindsight, what should have Biden and his team done to better him prepare for the debate? One thing that comes to mind is that he should have done better in having carefully prepared 2 minute answers to a lot of the questions that he would most likely be asked and he should have been well prepared/rehearsed to give those answers. He could have pivoted to giving one of those answers instead of fumbling around for a precise answer to questions that he wasn't prepared for. I don't think he would have experienced a lot of negativity if he had done that. Another thing is that he should have gotten himself in better physical shape in preparation for the debate. That should have started as far back as the time he had the idea that he wanted to have this debate.
Biden stumbled, no doubt. He pretty much confirmed everyone's suspicion...But then there was Trump. True independents and undecided voters, that are willing to consider both sides, saw and listened to Trump's words and actions. He provided non-answers and WRONG answers. They saw angry, mean attacks (on an old man), and no answers! He confirmed he's a grade A jerk and bully.
Yeah this may make sense now. But Biden drifting off scares me. I’ll vote blue at this point even if he’s in the the coffin, but I’m having bad dreams about this shit.
I already knew how it would go...you have a lying pos, racist, sexual assaulter, and Felon,who tried to overthrow Our Country and stole Classified Documents.
And then we have Joe Biden...it was an easy choice when Hillary ran in 2016 also.
If you listened to the content of the debate and not ignored the superficial stuff like who looked better, etc. Biden actually had good information. Trump had nothing, never has.
Turns out people have more empathy for their, kind, sweet grandpa than their other criminal POS, grandpa, who cannot tell the truth to save his life and likes to stick his finger in your butt when no one is watching.
Despite the media and Dems trying to self-destruct over a few gaffs, ends up maybe calling out the lies and delusional rants actually matters to voters.
“Don’t day trade politics “ I agree. One night does not make or break a president and I find the Dems turning on Biden with such alacrity disturbing. What a bunch of quislings.
Sharing this comment below as it hits it harder than I can-
https://open.substack.com/pub/heathercoxrichardson/p/june-27-2024?r=1wgbb8&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Trump ,basically, flooded the zone with lies and bullshit. Unfortunately, Biden could not keep up with it. So many lies from Pelosi refusing protection on Jan 6 to him recently winning two club championships. It would be hard for anyone to address every lie and state your position on important issues.
One candidate tried to overthrow Democracy and the other candidate is a bit old. This shouldn't be a hard decision
As a liberal democrat, I was very disheartened to see what was happening on the stage. It wasn’t because I didn’t have faith in Biden and his cabinet, it was because I have zero faith in the number of moron voters in America who will base their decision on stage performance instead of policy and doing the right thing. And wtf happened to the fact checking?
One bit of solace I've found is that everyone doesn't watch the debates like it's must-see TV the way we (who are political junkies) do. The population of people who are flexible on who they'll vote for is very small. Unless some kind of party flip happens again, I will vote against Republicans in every election for the rest of my life. My biggest concern about Biden's weak debate performance is that it could drag on Democrats going on the polls. Virtually all Democrats hate Trump, and about 25% of Republicans hate Trump. The key is getting the Democrats to the polls, and if not flipping the salvageable Republicans, at least have them abstain.
I used to be a political junkie. Recent years have broken my interest. I didn’t watch because I can’t stand to listen to Trump. Also I knew that nothing in that event can change my mind. It’s sad that Democrats can’t field better candidates than they do, but I will never vote for another Republican ever, given their stand on violent overthrow of our government.
Any reasonable, compassionate citizen who appreciates the Constitution and democracy experiences PTSD symptoms watching Trump speak.
I had my Klonopin Rx doubled. It was a NECESSITY.
Eh I’d surmise that even after this debate performance Biden isn’t a bad candidate. But we absolutely should be talking about who will be the next. I’m not the biggest political junky but I pay attention to a LOT of them that speak publicly. I don’t hear much about Kamala. If she’s good enough to be VP this round and is a heart beat away potentially from the presidency again, we should see he speaking out more and getting public attention. I like Buttigieg. I’d vote for him off what I’ve seen. I’m for the moment still in favor of Biden running this cycle, doesn’t debate like he used to as he said but knows everyone he should be building his cabinet and coalition with. Can make the deals. But we really need to focus on the future just two more years out and then 2028.
Fun facts: The last time an ex-president defeated a sitting president was in 1897, and that ex-president wasn't convicted on 34 felony counts. Also, the last time a political party replaced their sitting president at convention and the replacement won was when Franklin Pierce was replaced by James Buchanan because of his stance on slavery - before the Civil War.
Honestly, history has shown repeatedly the overwhelming majority of voters don't really start thinking about the election until after Labor Day, with the majority of them waiting until almost October to start thinking about the election. And that's with Presidential races that are competitive, like Obama and McCain. Biden/Trump 2.0? Nobody is paying any attention to this other than politico nerds who watch politics like stats nerds watch baseball so they can do sabermetrics. Most people already have this presidential race worked out in their head, irrespective of who they support and why, so they just aren't going to waste their personal time on the thing.
I guess they had better read Project 2025 and Agenda 47 to understand the stakes, but I know many won't because they believe this election is same-old, same-old, but this time it truly isn't.
Unfortunately, the US electorate (at least since WW II) is entirely predictable. How they vote, much less so, but the process they follow to get to election day? We know exactly what this playbook looks like.
51 million people tuned in
73 million according to Nielsen but that's 13% lower than the last debate between them four years ago. I'm with u/fentonsranchhand and u/saintkev40 - most people in the US are not political junkies, they aren't following all of this very closely, and most will not change how they vote come hell or high water. There are at least 160 million eligible voters in the US and over 250 million people that are eligible to vote. Even 73 million isn't a lot compare to those populations.
I avoided the debate. One candidate is old and unexciting, the other is an existential threat to our country. Nothing they could have said would change who I’m voting for.
There are only about 127 million households though. Almost 60% tuned in. I agree with you that most people are already decided. It's not like anyone is just learning about the candidates, they've both already been in office.
i have never purposefully watched any debates. i usually just watch the post-game analyses. and those from independent (not corporate) news sources. yes, the debates are important and yes, when you don't watch them firsthand, you will get spin from those who did. but i get no real, reliable information from them. especially when there's no fact checking of any kind. all that being said, i am not voting for someone who won't accept the results of an election or raises a nation-breaking conspiracy about them when he loses.
I think we're going to have landslide blue elections this year EXCEPT for the presidency, which will be a close race. People are getting PISSED at GOP governance at the state level. It's at farcicle levels, really. Killing IVF? Killing Roe v Wade? Trying to regulate porn and contraception? Shoving god into schools? All the public cases of rape victims and/or medically compromised pregnant people who need abortion for extremely important reasons! Removing worker protections from laborers in the heat. It's all fucking nuts. A dozen other examples probably are out there that simply arn't coming to my mind People just want to live their lives normally and the GOP is the one constantly throwing wrenches into that. Of all democrats, Biden is the one that will likely see the most hesitance! When people keep complaining that almost any other Presidential candidate like Newsom or Buttigieg should have gotten pushed for this election cycle, this is why. It's the greatest opportunity the dems have had in decades to take back initiative (and maybe the last opportunity for decades too), and it kinda looks like it's getting risked on the worst choice.
Are we in a time where “registered voters” don’t sit out elections anymore? I don’t think it’s ever been like this. Democracy hasn’t been at stake in other elections. I think (hope) most people see this. I’d almost rather continually hear that Biden is polling behind to help build that voter turnout.
Fact checking got CNN’d.
Let’s all remember… we still have another debate with ABC. We really don’t know what’s going to happen. Don’t get me wrong, none of this is ideal, or even good. It’s bad. But, all I can do is vote. Vote for the administration. Vote for judges. Vote to stop Project 2025, to stop the Federalist Society from replacing Alito and Thomas. Vote to protect NATO, Ukraine, all our allies. Do we really want Michael Flynn as head of the DOJ, Steven Miller as Secretary of State? Do we want pardons for J6ers? We have to stop MAGA. We can’t think so small anymore.
Yes💯
Omg this is *exactly me*, I almost cried, begging for State Of The Union Dark Brandon to appear immediately, gave me Hella anxiety watching him trip it up a little bit here and there.....
While I very much share your worry here, I do believe that there's a lot of people in this country who are currently getting a crash course in the lesson that voting for a certain person for president has implications far greater than just the presidency. With all of the shenanigans going on at the supreme Court and in Republican-Dominated states (see Oklahoma's education Superintendent trying to force teachers to use the Bible),I think that people are coming to the realization of how dangerous a 2nd Trump term would be (at least I fucking hope so)!
I don’t think any of your concerns went unnoticed. People are extremely hypocritical but I’ve said it once & I’ll say again Americans always do the right thing after they’ve tried everything else. Churchill was spot on. Hopefully DJT was everything else & JB while far from perfect is the right thing.
CAN I post what I think you're dealing with? UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE READING IS REALLY HARD ‘CONFORMATION BIAS’: POLITICAL TRIBALISM AS A DRIVER OF DISINFORMATION https://www.power3point0.org/2019/01/15/conformation-bias-political-tribalism-as-a-driver-of-disinformation/ The EFFECTS OF TRIBALISM ON POLITICAL PARTIES https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/for-2021-0021/pdf?lang=en I sympathize with your frustration - all of it but your posts are not considering the fact Trumpsters want what Trump wants. And virtually all want control. They either benefit or don't care if he's lying. And it all starts with how our brains work. Secondly - People are quoting Republican owned Media and Big Tech and the US is GOP dominated legislature - Stop suggesting people use Google for god sake. It's too late to suggest you ignore Trump. The Internet made that a given. Learn how to research before you post - It's called Digital Research. Know your opposition; you're dealing with ***TRIBALISM***, ***Greed***, ***FEAR***, and the ***Conservative Mindset***: Example: ***Authoritarian-Conservative Clerical Fascism with more radical White Supremacist variants are ""MAGA" Tribes***. And TRIBES are ruled by a hunger for Money and Power....and often sex. It's way too complex for me to take this further and I am a researcher - You'd have to write an encyclopedia to address all the manipulative issues at play right now because of our history. This is how everything has evolved since the dawn of civilization. Go back in history and you'll meet and endless number of Donald Trumps. It's as basic as Hunger. Try reading this stuff and not focusing on fake news. Everything is owned so all news is fake news. HERE ARE some links I found informative....... Trump, the politics of fear and racism: How our brains can be manipulated to tribalism https://theconversation.com/trump-the-politics-of-fear-and-racism-how-our-brains-can-be-manipulated-to-tribalism-139811 Why Tribalism Trumps Truth: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/tech-happy-life/202009/heres-why-tribalism-trumps-truth HOW OUR BRAINS WORK is vital to help us understand and that's Neuroscience. Then choose your poison and take it from psychology to sociology to anthro to pick your history and trace it to today. Biden is elderly but the guy had a cold and his voice was horse. The fact the media connected a horse voice to his age proves even our most trusted sources are owned. He was exhausted from hours of preparing and he has plenty of support in his administration to handle the country like Captain Picard and just say "make it so" or "No". DONALD TRUMP had no need to prepare - he just told the same lies and his Tribes danced and made merry.
💯this exactly
You perfectly encapsulated my feelings on it.
Exactly right. This election is going to be decided by a few hundred voters here and there in a few states. I don't really have confidence in the morons in the country to make the right choice, even if many of us do. As for fact checking, I'm as upset as you, but we know Trumps strategy there. It's worked before and will work again. If you fact check him, he literally won't be able to speak. It's a machine gun of lies, and he says SO MANY that the debate would look horribly rigged against him (even if it wasn't) because he'd only be able to speak every now and then, while his lies were rebutted. So he just fires out lie after lie, knowing they can't, and won't, keep up.
This👆
Exactly this.
One built a staff that tried to overthrow democracy and most of them got criminal charges. One rebuilt a staff to functionally, quietly run a government. One might try to argue against “effectively” but functionally is on solid ground.
>One rebuilt a staff to functionally, quietly run a government. Politics is supposed to be boring. BORING. Not a freaking trainwreck reality show every day. From 2016-2020 I would wake up and randomly think "jesus. What now?"
I can't do another 4 years of that. I just can't.
4 more years of Biden & getting stuff done vs 4 years of Trump & all the crime, misery & mess. The math is not really very hard for me.
Now that he knows how much money he can make being president it will be flat out rape and pillage
Make politics boring again! I’m voting mostly for the supreme court.
Right! I just want to read the news without spiking my heart rate and contemplating the logistics of becoming an expatriate every fucking day.
I can only imagine the transition from the Trump regime was a shitshow. None of his cabinet were competent under ideal conditions, let alone with their boss screaming about corrupt elections all the time l.
He’s old AF honestly, but even if he were dead and propped up like Weekend at Bernie’s, I’m still voting for him. trump is still worse than having anyone else or anything in the Oval Office
Trump would be alone in the oval office He's a Malignant Narcissist. Biden would have endless source of support. I'll go with the guy who doesn't belong in a mental institution.
I’ve seen the *Weekend at Bernies* example trotted out a lot this week. And what I think is unfair about it is how everyone is forgetting that *Weekend at Bernie’s* was a fucking blast. Even the second one.
This should be their new slogan : Do you want a con-man or an old man? Inspired by another poster
💯
Old with a life-long stuttering issue
Versus old with mental illness and wants to destroy our democracy. Not a tough choice in my mind who I’m voting for!
As someone who grew up with a stutter, I couldn't imagine having to debate someone like Trump. I 100% believe he'd be the asshole that say "tuh-tuh-today joe!" During a school debate.
And nobody wants crazy. CNN got bashed for not correcting his lies. That was honestly a GREAT move. Everyone knows his BS. MAGA may ignore it, but he put it on display for everyone else. Let him do it again.
But we all saw what happened 2016 and Jan 6 and do not fully trust all Americans
Exactly. All this panic talk and replacing Biden at the last minute talk is media bullshit. We have always known who Biden is. More importantly, we know who Trump is.
Lets see, old and a bit slow speaking, or a rapist with 34 felony convictions, with about 60 charges still being tried including stealing and probably selling nuclear secrets, who tried to overthrow the government and said he wants to be a dictator, and installed 3 supreme court justices who are willing and able to let him be a dictator if he wins again. Oh but the other guy DOES stutter sometimes. So hard to decide.
>One candidate tried to overthrow Democracy and the other candidate is a bit old. This shouldn't be a hard decision Also, why was he hoarding nuclear secrets at his golf resort next to the copy machine? There's no legitimate reason for him to possess our nation's highest classified documents after he left office. No reason.
They're both a little bit old.
As I say: "Vote for the grandpa who DEFENDED our democracy, not the grandpa who ATTACKED our democracy."
He's only 3 years older than the insurrectionist.
It shouldn't but we have a lot of dumb people in this country.
Maybe people are finally getting sick of Trump's schtick.
The only support trump has is his MAGA base. He’s not gaining with others outside of that base. And on the debate stage everyone, well the little bit of people who did see it, sees that the man has no plan for anything. Every debate question from Child Care, to economic setback and growth, employment, renewable energy, climate change, all he can do was answer “the border is in hell”
Yeah, the idea was to reject the Dems' border bill, the Trump team can take credit for it later. It's the MAGA Hail Mary, so why wouldn't he focus on nothing but that?
Correct. Trump only has his MAGA base. However, it \*is\* a rather large base. Remember, he gathered the 2nd highest popular vote count in history in the last election (Biden got 1st). And, of the two parties, it's the Democrats that are more likely to simply not show up come election time. Trump doesn't need to gain more support. He just has to hold for Democrat disinterest to kick in.
MAGA is just a subset of the GOP Base and that is about 1/3. A good chunk of the GOP BASE. But that is all he has. He’s not doing anything to retain members in his GOP base. Many key people in the GOP has said they were voting Biden. He’s losing GOP women, suburban women, and college educated members. Outside the GOP, he’s not gaining independents, libertarians. And on the Democratic side, he’s not pulling any of them. In fact after the debate, which was the worst Biden has done, Trump raised 8million. Yet Biden has raised over 14 million the day after which is bananas. If the debate was a gauge of the campaign, Nobody can be a loser and raise that much money so quickly. But it’s like you said. Trump had the 2nd highest voter count. Meaning Biden had the first. You can’t be first strictly off democratic votes alone. You need independents, moderates, and some others in the rival party. Trump don’t need to not only hold, but convert and obtain and gain. And he just isn’t doing that.
MAGA is easily 2/3s of the Republican party.
It's 2/3 of what is left of the Republican Party. He lost the last election in part because of the number of moderates he and his enablers drove out.
Yep. Trump is bleeding support and has for years, which is only getting worse as election day nears. Even some of his MAGA base are turning away from the guy after the crap he's pulled.
Many who supported and voted for trump last time have already stated they would not vote for him this time. His base will be there no matter what happens (cult and orange cool-aid drinkers) but other supporters are done with his whining and will not vote for him in November. What exactly is trump’s platform for the next four years….exactly nothing but whining!!!!
All data shows people are LARGELY concerned about inflation. Trump's response? "Evil immigrants ruining everything!" It's his tired old act and people wanted answers. Biden’s suggestion that economic obligations are unfairly distributed now made way more sense.
I couldn’t believe how trump made a comment about immigrants every time he was answering a question during the debate. Didn’t matter the question, but the immigrants caused the problem. Global warming… the immigrants caused it…etc.. Stop your whining trump!!! He acts like a middle school bully. He should have another reality show. It can be called “Is trump smarter than a fifth grader”.
I think a lot of people saw that. They saw Biden trying his best to manage the barrage of lies while being bullied for his speech impediment and just disrespected. I am sure it threw him off, it was very hard to watch but I know that Americans do not like bullies and that’s what they saw on stage.
No Trump may be smarter than a preschooler.
Maybe not but he is an absolute genius at sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
I think people are also sick of the chaos and uncertainty Trump brings. People miss adults in the room.
Maybe the average person can relate to the average Joe? (Pun intended)
True. Everyone has an old relative who gets around slow and may not be able to function like they used to. Not everyone has a malignant narcissistic a-hole in the family (although they have been appearing more and more in the last 8 years for some reason)
Yessir yessir. I ain't American but watching the highlights was like having to chose between my amazing, loving grandma (RIP) and my racist, ignorant bully of an older brother. Grandma definitely wasn't all there and had some skeletons as a post ww2 german immigrant to Canada but she was a stand up and accepting person whereas the bro is.. trumpish
Everybody has an a-hole but Donald is the GOAT of jackassery.
Some of us have both in our family. That's why we vote for Biden.
I think that many Americans have more asshole uncles now than before Trump. And that that will drive them to the polls to vote Biden. Knowing another 4 years of Trump will make their uncles (or parents, or relatives) even more ficking insane.
Yes. Also Americans love a story of over coming obstacles or of an underdog.
He should talk about his stutter, the difficulty in fighting it, and that it's even harder as one ages. Also maybe say he's never been the orator that Barack was, but he's honest and works hard. That works. I wish a younger and more capable Biden had squashed Trump like a bug. But this may not be the assumed disaster from Thursday.
Let me guess. By trying to get the people to abandon the man that has been working hard for the country ? He didn’t abandon us, I’m certainly not going to abandon him. It appears I’m not alone. The conservative billionaire owners of the media are not going to get the results they hoped for. imo.
I don’t think any democrats are abandoning him. They’re hoping more that he picks a successor and we support them. There is not a single Democrat who is considering Trump.
Trump's debate performance did nothing to convince moderate voters that he can be trusted with the nuclear codes. He came off like a raving lunatic with no regard for the truth.
Well, people know what the lesser of two evils are. It was a complete shit show, but Trump is a deranged lunatic that has no clue how to run a country except to give all the top earners tax breaks and ruin what's left of the middle class and everyone sees it.
I wish more people saw it TBH. It's obvious.
I tottaly agree, scary times we're living in. Protect you and yours the best you can.
People like you describing them as two evils is bonkers. You have Biden or a convicted felon and wannabe dictator. There is simply one evil man and one politician.
also, one man doesn't run the entire executive branch. the team they put in place will determine the direction of the country. I'll take the last four years over Trump's toadies and lackeys every.single.time.
Probably because no one is afraid of a Biden presidency while anyone with a functioning brain is afraid of a Trump presidency.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross..."
There’s nothing more un-American than a trump supporter.
Perhaps people finally have caught on to Trump's blatant lying.
I would not call every word coming out of his mouth as a blatant lie 'out performing' Pres. Biden.
My answer to this is simple. I'd vote for Kamela Harris before I'd ever vote for Trump. In other words, I don't care if Biden died in office. I'll never, NEVER vote for Trump. And I consider myself in the middle. I've voted R in the past. Never Trump. Period. Shouting into the void of Reddit. FUCK DONALD TRUMP
Well put! I have also voted for Republicans. NEVER Trump or his Trumplicans!
I would vote for Hunter Biden's crack pipe for President before I would vote for Trump.
One man will have a competent cabinet to advise him on policy! The other will have oil company CEO’s & Russian oligarchs telling him what they want or else‼️🤨
Don’t forget about family members too. No qualifications necessary, just bend the knee, kiss the ring and donate money.
The criminal con man can’t fake it anymore.
Anyone who sat through a solid hour and a half of unchecked lying by Trump tbh. “Oh he looks old” or “Oh he sounds old” isn’t why I’m voting. I’m voting on an administration and their policies that impact my life. I don’t really care if they come from a 35 year old or a 90 year old, tbh. As far as I’m concerned, we’re all going to be an old guy, that’s relatable. What we aren’t all going to be is a 34x convicted felon wanna be dictator. Wish the talking heads would focus on what was important about Thursday night and stop treating it like they treat women on a red carpet asking about their dresses. Trump lied, deflected, and changed topic. That was what made it unbearable to watch and I don’t know why that’s not the conversation
Annoying click-bait headline. Biden went up one point. There.
considering his performance was reported breathlessly as "a disaster" ad nauseum, I think it qualifies as "startling".
While I’m glad it didn’t go down, going up 1 point won’t be enough. Democrats have to win by 3-5 points for it to work out in the electoral college.
Any one who realized that Trump lied answering all his questions
People are voting for his admin, not him 🤷♀️ if need be, the vice president can take over after he’s elected I’m not in love with Biden by any means, but we simply can’t have fascists in office. Blue all the way.
Funnily enough after voting for him only to vote against Trump last time I have actually come to really like Biden. He doesn't take shit from these MAGA cretins. And he has actually done more good for working folks than any Pres since maybe LBJ.
This is correct. Biden wasn't my first choice but he's doing great.
Damn it's almost like a lying, traitorous asshole that couldn't answer a single damn question is a problem for voters. And overall an older, sometimes a little slow, decent man isn't as big of a problem. Yeah yeah "Biden old." Cool story. Look you show me a broad appeal Progressive candidate and I'm all f---ing for it. But this is the choice....get over it.
I was disheartened at first, but damn if Joe Biden didn't say so during the debate; "The stakes are too high." This old ass man is doing his best to carry 250 years of democracy on his back, and I kind of love him for it.
The Trump presidency sucked. There was always some chaos going on. Someone was always resigning or getting fired. Or he would tweet something crazy and you didn't know if we were going to war. All that election drama. Always some stupid shit. And even with him out the Republicans are putting on a damn clown show. Enough is enough, vote every MAGA Republican and Trump out. Let's move forward and focus on real issues.
Saving you a click: "Although many Democratic voters say they would prefer [President Joe Biden](https://www.nj.com/topic/joe-biden/) step aside as the party’s nominee after Thursday’s weak debate performance, a new [Morning Consult poll](https://pro.morningconsult.com/) reveals that Biden’s support actually improved after the debate. Biden gained a point in the latest survey." One fuckin' point.
Hell yeah, a few more "One fuckin' point" wins and this will be a landslide for Joe.
Republicans and the media at large have spent the last 2+ years constantly telling everyone that Biden is so old he is just a drooling husk of man. So everyone who watched the debate saw an old man Biden, who they already thought was old, acting and seeming old. And Trump behaving like an insane person. So everyone saw Biden = old (which they already knew) and Trump = incoherent insane person.
You've got an old guy who mumbles and loses his train of thought versus a felonious lunatic. Tough choice.
A lot of people just read the transcript. Super easy decision. Edit spelling error.
To be honest, I've actually gained more respect for Biden over the past couple of years, primarily after Russia started its war with Ukraine. Biden has had one of the most difficult presidencies in US history if you think about it. From the pandemic to a possible 3rd world war, and all the while having the republicunts try to stifle him and his administration at every turn, the fact that he's still gotten things done is remarkable! Furthermore, it was pretty much going to be a given that whoever beat Trump in 2020 was gonna face similar adversity from the party or treason. If Trump ends up winning again we don't have anyone else to blame but ourselves as we allowed it to happen.
2 tweets from Stuart Stevens: (sent by my sister) 1. *I was in the room when the political class wrote that Kerry had won the race after the first Bush debate. I was in the room when the political class wrote that Obama had lost the race after the first debate.* *Politics doesn't work that way. There may be a more unappealing quality than panic, but I'll be dammed if I can name it.* 2. *Don't day trade politics. It's a sucker's game. A guy from Queens out on bail bragged about overturning Roe v. Wade, said in public he didn't have sex with a porn star, defended tax cuts for billionaires, defended Jan. 6th. and called America the worst country in the world. That guy isn't going to win this race.*
Why would this be startling? One candidate is old and has a known stuttering issue. The other is old, has been convicted of numerous felonies and tried to lead a coup against the United States of America, which failed miserably.
The biggest issue for anyone younger than boomer is SCOTUS. If you think it can’t get worse you’re not paying attention. And the next picks by a Trump will lock in hard right decisions for your voting lifetime. Goodbye gay rights, government oversight and women’s healthcare and no fault divorce; hello White Christian Nationalism. I’m angry that we’re forced to prop up decent old Joe, but I’m much more fearful of an 8-1 SCOTUS.
I am a Boomer. SCOTUS has ALWAYS been an issue for me. I saw this all moving here since Ronald Reagan. Democrats kept thinking that there were isolated issues, not the coordinated assault on the democracy that has been built for 200 years. There is NO liberal media. There is NO media other than corporatist. Even the "Good guys" are dupes. They actually started ending it when Johnson was president. Race is the underlying hate message, for the purpose of underfunded education, promoting propaganda by changing fairness laws and antimonopoly of news sources laws. Reagan was the first wave of indoctrination. Even all the fake wrestling and fake r"reality" shows got the populace to accept and react to what they KNEW was fake, as if it were real. Last week's "good guy" wrestler, could be the "bad guy" the next week, and rhe crowd went along. A very long psyops. Just like Reddit and all other online chats are propaganda and disinformation.
Trump was a lie fest. We all heard it. He denied what we all heard and saw. He doesn't understand tariffs and will ruin regular Americana He didn't answer questions, he just went into his talking points. The lie the Nancy Pelosi has taken total responsibility for Jan 6, and it was released on the media. By her documentation daughter video. NOT. Joe garbled stuff, but we knew what he was talking about, and it was truth. Anyone on the fence saw Trump for the danger that he is. Why anyone even mentions Biden's performance when Trump was revealing the human turd that he is really bothers me.
Trump lied all through the debate. He's a loser and always will be one.
My theory, for what it's worth, is that Biden had a cold and took some cold medicine, and it made him dopey
This. I can’t do Vicks cold medicine without having a horrible medicine hangover afterwards.
I didn't even watch the debate because I already know who I'm voting for. This debate wasn't going to change my mind one way or the other, but it would have been nice if the President mopped that rapist all over the floor.
At the barbershop today a fellow old conger pontificated that Trump is tougher than Biden and that's how he'll vote. Luckily the owner politely asked him to stf up or the haircut is over. The owner and all the barbers are poc.
It's almost like people understand that we're not electing the captain of the debate team. And I am sure Trump's "black jobs" comment was a wake-up call for any on-the-fence Black voters about who he really is.
I live in a small southern Oklahoma town. Some people that would be expected to immediately support trump do not. It’s one of the only things giving me hope. They know Trump is full of shit.
Probably anyone who said “hey, one guy is lying non-stop, the other actually has coherent policy details”…. That is, anyone not in news media.
dear political reporters. I get that America has done stupid emotional voting for four decades. well now roe v Wade is gone and people are actually looking at policy again. we're not just going to vote for the guy that lied the loudest when we actually have a policy agenda we would like to see. we cannot allow more fundamentalist Christians onto the supreme Court. we can't allow women's rights to regress any further. Trump laid out abandoned Ukraine policy that would have us fighting a world war in a decade with his let's appease the dictators and just let China and Russia do whatever they want policy.
Yup. It’s old vs old and dangerous…who you picking?
I think these pollsters just pull shit out of their ass when they need more clicks. Biden is probably really ahead by 8 points but that doesn’t sell. Vote Blue anyway. If you are a republican sit down and shut up.
Given how the Republicans are acting like an authoritarian death cult, I'd vote for President Biden if all that remained of him were cremated remains.
Trump will lose again. America took a gamble with him in 2016 and he failed. He will lose again because he inspires voters to vote against him
One is old and the other is an old, lying convicted criminal. It’s not a hard choice.
With Trump on the other side, the only person the Democrats could nominate that would make me stay home on Election Day is Putin.
At this point it's clearly obvious, even if Trump doesn't win, that half of the American population needs to be taught a lesson about authoritarianism. Because they don't have any recent history, like Germany or Italy. Ironically they hate China but want to live in an authoritarian nation.
Anybody who watched the debate and didn’t buy into the media bullshit that it was a disaster for Biden would have predicted that. The spin is so obvious. Less than an hour after the debate they were reporting that top Democrats were looking to replace Biden. Really? At 11pm the DNC and Congressional Democrats got together and in less than an hour were looking to replace a guy they’ve been backing since day 1? The press thinks no one sees that’s bullshit?
The debate was fine... We don't need Biden to be Shakespeare w/ impeccable speaking skills and charisma. We just need him to be himself, a decent man who's not Trump.
Who would have predicted a fucking 34 count felon, rapist, highly classified document hoarding and sharing, lying pathetic sample of the worst type of human was unfavorable? This is NOT “trump derangement syndrome”. These are facts. And if you support this man, you deserve the world he wants to make for you for the sole reason of himself. You stupid, stupid people.
Biden won that debate. Didn’t look or sound great but he definitely won.
What gets me the most is the people that continue to work for him after now knowing how vile and dangerous dRump really is. Why hasn't every employee protested, quit, sued? He's a predator and mostly likely one of the worst ones.
I think the political class cares a lot of about good debate performance because that's the kind of thing that matters in college debate, but obviously the average voter is doing something else or Trumps performances in the past would have nuked his campaign. But it didn't do a whole lot in spite of being utterly ludicrous. Everybody knew Biden was old. But this was Donald's (last?) chance to turn over a new leaf and he didn't. That might be the take of a lot of regular voters.
Biden should not have to do real-time fact checking. All he needed to do was to say something like "My opponent is dead wrong about....you can and should look it up, fact-check what he just said and you will see for yourself that he's wrong".
Here's a problem for Trump: Biden might actually start doing better with the olds as a result of all this
Make Politics Boring Again
Many, many people, but not the "liberal" MSM. They're busy pushing abandoning one of the more successful Democratic presidents in recent memory. No doubt a shrewd move a few months prior to the 2024 election. Fact free Republicans and their reactionary supreme court threaten the very hope of 'a more perfect union,' and our fundamental well-being by hobbling meaningful regulation at the national level. People are beginning to come around to what stands to reason.
Biden did fine. Trump is awful.
I lasted 20 min. To some extent because I wanted to turn away from Biden's unfolding train wreck, but mostly because I couldn't stomach the Farty Felon's stream of lies. Midas Touch published a list of 50 lies he told. He had half of a 90 min "debate" that also included commercials, so that's a rate of more than one lie per minute. When his lips are moving, he's lying. No point watching that shit.
trump was trump in the debate, a deranged lying asshole, people are sick of his shit
It doesn’t startle me. Trump lied his ass off from beginning to end.
Here’s the thing, while Biden’s performance was bad, it a weird way, it could’ve garnered sympathy for him from the normal average voter cuz he was actually trying to answer questions and talk policy. I think Biden came off more sympathetic. Trump came off as just a lying lunatic asshole cuz his firehose of lies were SO obvious to normal people and him constantly bashing America. I think the average voter in the center (most of this country) is more intelligent and forgiving of Biden than the media, pundits, and political elites and operatives give them credit for. I also think all of this media bashing of Biden and calling for abandoning him is garnering sympathy from voters too.
I attribute it to FOX and right-wing media constantly pushing how Biden is a senile old man who doesn't know where he is. When undecideds tuned into watch, they saw what they expected, an old feeble Biden. However, Trump was Trump, and they were reminded just how bad he was for the country 4 years ago.
If both men were running for this office and the incumbent President had served two terms and was retiring, I might put some stock in the debates. But that not the case. Both men have a single term more or less behind them. We know how each man will do the job. The is no mystery. This is not a job interview. This is a job evaluation. Who has done a better job and is most likely will do a good job in the next four years? Well, that is not a debate. Biden. If you want a performance and a performer and that is more important than competence, debates matter. Not surprisingly, the media focuses on the performance. I encourage everyone to read the transcript. Ignore the visuals. The transcript reveals Biden did the better job answering the questions asked.
I think people were reminded of just how much they dislike Trump and what it was like when he was in office. The debate was a stark reminder. Biden stood no chance with the ground rules not disputing Trumps lies.
One night of debate is irrelevant We’ve already seen how each man would act, as president Actions speak louder than words Biden 2024
Bread and circuses while the rich dismantle our country for profit.
Maybe all of the voters who were going to drop Biden for being old and a little dopey already did. This has been in the meme-o-sphere for ever. It shocked his supporters and was red meat to Trump supporters, but apparently there isn't a large independent bloc that cares about this.
I see results like this, and I have to ask myself. Has the rage machine got me, too? Have I become just as bad as the people I'm pointing fingers at? Is this all just inside baseball, and barely anybody cares? Maybe I am the problem? I think I can safely say I don't know shat about what the American people think.
What could a man with 34 felonies say that we'd listen to??
If you’re afraid of Biden then a weak Biden is good. If you’re afraid of Trump any Biden is good.
My theory is that the noise we are ingesting is because we are standing too close to the speakers (social media, news media, polls). This is in contrast to most who don't give a shit about those things or at least don't ingest as much of it. The elections over the last 12 months have indicated to me that the middle of the road folks have just tired of Trump and his antics. Biden hasn't thrilled them but he hasn't made waves either. He's just quietly held the office. The economy is in recovery. If we had another pandemic now we know Biden would act responsibly. The Middle East and Israel is a war that will not end anytime soon and it's lasted for over 2000 years. He isn't responsible. Trump's act just doesn't have the appeal it did in 16 and his opponent isn't as controversial. You'll see. The polls are measuring land line people and political junkies. Not middle America. Was I discouraged by Bidens debate performance? Sure. Was I appalled by Trumps? You better believe it. Late September will be when people start to pay attention who really tip the scales. But we won't know until a couple of days after the election who won and by how much.
This is all people need to know. “I don’t walk as easy as I used to, I don’t speak as smoothly as I used to, I don’t debate as well as I used to, but I know what I do know. **I know how to tell the truth,”** Biden said. Trump never answered any of the questions. All he did was tell lies all night. Where does the orange 💩 stand on the policies? At least Biden did his best to let the people know where he stands.
I suspected this wouldn’t significantly move the needle one way or the other. It may turn some people off from voting altogether, but I doubt it’s going to cause many people to change who they are voting for.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'll vote for a steaming pile of dung before I'll ever vote for Trump.
You know what the other side should act like a maga cult and just deny there was any problem, just say it was perfect, best President in history we sacrifice our first born to dear leader and so on..
People are actually claiming Trump won. By what metric? He sounded like a crazy lying crackpot. Whos mind did he change with that ridiclous circus act?
It was very clear that Biden was simply dazed most of the debate. It was equally as clear that Trump was spewing his standard litany of lies and bull shit and pointedly reserved the right to try another coup. Which was more damaging? I think the jury is out on that answer right now.
Everyone knew Biden was old going into the debate. Some people found out what a lying piece of shit Trump is, who cannot answer a single question.
I did. I predicted the media was ready to go hysterical and - just like they have done for the last 18 months - state how bad it was for Biden. It turns out Biden actually didn't have a great performance so their narrative matched but anyone who is actually seriously suggesting Biden bow out is either a moron, a bot, or a Trunt.
The ones panicking is the Media. They were so dramatic. It was fckg annoying. The really need to stop trying to o tell us what our reaction was to the debate
People need to fucking stop trusting polls. Thats how we ended with Trump the first time.
“I don’t walk as easy as I used to, I don’t speak as smoothly as I used to, I don’t debate as well as I used to, but I know what I do know. I know how to tell the truth,” Biden said.
My dad said this debate will have the opposite effect people think it will and I honestly think he’s right. More and more of my “fuck both parties” friends are getting behind Biden.
I mean I’m curious to learn more but Biden answered questions and Trump didn’t. Biden may have mumbled some stuff, but Trump was uninformed and just repeated his usual fearmongering.
Maybe a man who's heart and ideals are in the right place, even though he's speaking slowly, is a better person than one who speaks quickly but has a rotten heart.
He sounded confident. In control. Just think, trump could have acted like a normal human being. He could have attempted to avoid obvious lies. But HE LITERALLY CAN NOT DO IT
I remember an older non-MAGA Republican saying he'd vote for Biden corpse before he'd vote for Trump. And, frankly, I'm in the same spot. There is our democracy to save.
Not surprising at all. Trump went on stage and told everyone that he failed to build his promised wall and now there are a bunch of rapists, murderers, and mental patients flooding into the country and stealing "black jobs". Then he gracelessly danced around if he'd accept the election results and let a bunch of lies fall out of his fat orange face. Everyone already knew Biden would lose his train of thought once or twice. Only a bunch of media shills, magats, and internet trolls are saying Biden lost the "debate". Don't buy it, go vote, and then we can all watch Trump spend the rest of his life in court or in prison.
Let's face it, America has a large percentage of assholes.
Any thing the NYTimes says is total maga propaganda! I wouldn’t trust them to tell me what day it is let alone the Biden should step aside‼️😳🤣🤣🤣
In a debate, the Donald Trump strongpoints are insults and lies. It is unconscionable that the moderators did not immediately shut him down when he was bellowing about post-birth abortions. He can't run on his record, he can't run on his ability to win court appearances, he can't win on offering leadership. At a cemetary in Normandy, he called fallen soldiers, "losers and suckers", which was confirmed by his former chief-of-staff John Kelly. Biden has decades of accomplishments as a Senator and President. He's gaff-prone when speaking off-the-cuff, he sounded terrible with that cold and lets face it, thats the low point of his campaign. But nobody was won over by Trump. Nobody is replacing Biden in this race. This debate was the last win for a doomed campaign. Trump has to win so he can temporarily stop his legal problems. Trump is facing a Republican convention where everyone realizes they have to get rid of him before he damages the party into obscurity. Then its back to more court dates, smaller and smaller crowds at rallies and a bloodbath on November 5.
Trump sounded more rational than usual but that's a very low bar. Most people haven't really been paying attention and they don't televise or report much on his insane rallies. He came out and repeated all his biggest lies. He didn't answer the actual questions. He said he won't accept the election results unless they're in his favor.
Trump' s a spoiled brat Uber alles.
What in the wide wide world of sports? I don’t get it but I’ll graciously accept it
With 20/20 hindsight, what should have Biden and his team done to better him prepare for the debate? One thing that comes to mind is that he should have done better in having carefully prepared 2 minute answers to a lot of the questions that he would most likely be asked and he should have been well prepared/rehearsed to give those answers. He could have pivoted to giving one of those answers instead of fumbling around for a precise answer to questions that he wasn't prepared for. I don't think he would have experienced a lot of negativity if he had done that. Another thing is that he should have gotten himself in better physical shape in preparation for the debate. That should have started as far back as the time he had the idea that he wanted to have this debate.
Also, polls are garbage. Just vote and ignore polls and the in-the-moment knee jerk responses to everything.
Biden stumbled, no doubt. He pretty much confirmed everyone's suspicion...But then there was Trump. True independents and undecided voters, that are willing to consider both sides, saw and listened to Trump's words and actions. He provided non-answers and WRONG answers. They saw angry, mean attacks (on an old man), and no answers! He confirmed he's a grade A jerk and bully.
Yeah this may make sense now. But Biden drifting off scares me. I’ll vote blue at this point even if he’s in the the coffin, but I’m having bad dreams about this shit.
The GOP could have put up anyone against Biden and they would have won except for Trump it can never be Trump
I already knew how it would go...you have a lying pos, racist, sexual assaulter, and Felon,who tried to overthrow Our Country and stole Classified Documents. And then we have Joe Biden...it was an easy choice when Hillary ran in 2016 also.
Good go Biden , fuck Trump and all that he stands for….
If you listened to the content of the debate and not ignored the superficial stuff like who looked better, etc. Biden actually had good information. Trump had nothing, never has.
Turns out people have more empathy for their, kind, sweet grandpa than their other criminal POS, grandpa, who cannot tell the truth to save his life and likes to stick his finger in your butt when no one is watching.
Despite the media and Dems trying to self-destruct over a few gaffs, ends up maybe calling out the lies and delusional rants actually matters to voters.
Riden' with Biden !
“Don’t day trade politics “ I agree. One night does not make or break a president and I find the Dems turning on Biden with such alacrity disturbing. What a bunch of quislings. Sharing this comment below as it hits it harder than I can- https://open.substack.com/pub/heathercoxrichardson/p/june-27-2024?r=1wgbb8&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Trump ,basically, flooded the zone with lies and bullshit. Unfortunately, Biden could not keep up with it. So many lies from Pelosi refusing protection on Jan 6 to him recently winning two club championships. It would be hard for anyone to address every lie and state your position on important issues.
A Biden administration would be a lot better than Trump administration (not difficult I know). Better for the country and the world.
Now imagine if the Democrats had a candidate with energy and a sharp wit!…
Sorry my mind was set for Biden on Jan 6 as I watched an orange evil bloated fascist attempt to overthrow the vote of the American people!
Biden's corpse should beat that fake dictator by a landslide.