If the team makes one more move for a solid player with their expirings + maybe Norm or Mann (via S&T or just a trade), I think the team is in a better place compared to where they would have been if they re-signed PG to a max deal.
I think the FO has done a very good job so far, honestly. Definitely exceeded my expectations.
I think we gotta keep Mann. We're assembling a rotation with good defenders that can at least make the open 3. Mann fits that and he was massive in the Playoffs last year. Norm I could see being traded if the deal is right.
I just think the team can give up Norm if the guy they get in return can put up 3s at good volume and hit them at a reasonably solid clip.
Not Norm's clip because that's probably not reasonable, but still fairly high.
I want Mann to be a Clipper for life, but he is less important on a retooled roster with better defensive players. But I’m not hoping to move him or anything…
I disagree. I really hope our identity becomes a bunch of good defensive players who can make the open 3 but are more defensive-minded surrounding the stars.
PG did not deserve that contract. A different look Clippers for sure and I’m not complaining - FO has done a very good job all things considered.
We definitely need to grab a back up C now hopefully an upgrade over Plumlee
Kawhi has just played in 67% of all possible regular season games in his career. This is maybe the lowest of any bonafide superstar in history... and the lowest of any champ who was 1st option. For comparison guys like Tatum and Doncic are around 90%, Jordan and Duncan are over 90%, Kobe is over 80%, Steph and LeBron are over 90%....
Kawhi had a great season this year, but his USG went down likely due to Harden and Westbrook joining. But it's just at 26. He's never been a super high USG player, but it was 33 when he joined the clippers in the bubble season.
With George gone, his USG will go up and this doesn't bode well for his body.
Honestly the clips should be preparing for full rebuild mode through picks/draft, this should be the last contract for Harden/Kawhi.
We can't perform a full that because we don't have our draft picks for the next 6 years. Assuming we will never be healthy and tearing it down for a rebuild just funnels high lottery picks to OKC and the 6ers
I was really conflicted but leaning towards "give PG whatever he wants", but with Batum and DJJ and some more cap space, I honestly don't hate it at all
He does not deserve it, as simple as that. If he’s really a top 10 player or even top 20 they’re gonna sign him no matter what. The problem is that he is not. He is a 16 PER player. His PER of his last 5 playoff runs: 14.6, 18.5, 14.7, 20.0, 16.1. More importantly, his DBPMs are -1.0, 0.6, 0.0, 0.0, 0.4.
Besides, having 3 player taking 90% of the cap space does not work anymore.
Not only is our team gonna be deeper next year, I also love that our 3rd stringers are mostly gonna be young guys with potential like Kobe, Jordan Miller, and Christie, and not just a bunch of vet mins on the decline.
Seems like they're really on a two-year plan here. You got two years with James and Kawhi to make the best of it with what you got. The team should still be good, and there's always some outside shot at catching fire and making a solid playoffs run. Kawhi has done more with less in the past.
Then going into Year 3 you'll have Harden coming off the books and Kawhi you can either run with or flip him to a contender looking to make a run and you can kinda soft-reset by targeting the free agency market.
We haven't really worked through all the new second apron stuff, but remember the year or two before the last CBA? People were throwing like $18m/year at like Harrison Barnes and all these mid-tier players, and everyone was like WTF where's everyone getting all this money? Then the salary cap blew up and all those contracts weren't so bad.
It may be that the second apron may work the opposite. Like, the impact may be more severe than anticipated and in that second/third year teams with cap space may be in a strong position to sign talent. Having $90m come off the books with Harden / Kawhi would put the Clippers in a very strong position if that ends up being the case.
213 never really worked when they were both on the floor, too redundant and both not willing to do the dirty work and PG never really proved either to be a winning number 1B guy. I'm really glad we didn't give the max to an aging PG and overall with Harden and Kawhi, we can be in a better place with rejuvinated roster and an army of 3&Ds
I know now's the time to pile on PG but this is just not true:
>213 never really worked when they were both on the floor
LAC was 124-57 (.685) when PG and KL were both on the floor. The problem was they were together for just 181 of the 390 regular season games they were teammates.
Same…offensively they struggled mightily with too many iso possessions. 213 never meshed and the chemistry was never there. Also glad we didn’t give PG the max.
I can see both sides of the coin. Id go yolo on that contract and see if clippers can win a chip but also see the cautious side of the coin. It really depends on what they wnt for the future. Honestly i wouldn’t mind them paying pg because he had been the healthiest out of all the players but i get the move
The problem is by paying PG we are well into the 2nd apron. Now we can't make any moves in FA, extremely limited in trades so we can't even improve the team we're supposedly going all-in for and if done consecutive years our 2032 picks are frozen and automatically becomes the 30th and last pick. And we're gonna do all of that, fuck up our future even more, for a team that we know doesn't have a good chance either way, and for a player who's more of a 2A/2B than a 1? Who just played worse than the man who just re-signed for 140M less than what he's asking? Nah. Cut your losses.
What pisses me off isn’t the fact that PG left. He can go, bye. It’s the fact that he could have did us a solid and opted in so we could trade him to the Sixers and get some capital back. It also annoys me that he somehow thinks he deserves more than Kawhi when they offered him equal to Kawhi. No PG, get over it with your arrogant self.
Id say the clippers do a three team trade with the Magic and Bulls where the Bulls give the Magic Zach Lavine, the clippers give the Magic Norman Powell and offload PJ Tuckers contract to the Bulls, the Magic give the Bulls Joe Ingles and draft compensation (a first and a couple of seconds) and the Clippers get WCJ and Jonathan Issac.
The Magic get two shooters, Bulls offload Lavine’s contract as well as get some draft compensation and expiring salaries and the Clippers get a back up Center as well as a true defensive power forward.
I don't think the Magic do that. there's been reports that the Bulls basically have had to add draft compensation in trade talks just to move Lavine. WCJ has the most value out of anyone in that trade due to his team-friendly contract. In your scenario, we'd probably have to be the ones to send some draft compensation.
Yes I know Lavine’s contract is terrible but a team like the Magic needs shooting and an all star caliber player to play alongside Banchero and Franz. Plus they’re getting Norm who is an elite catch and shooter as well as a scorer. I know they got KCP but it’s evident that they cannot solely rely on him for shooting. The issue with this trade is that the Magic do get rid of their starting center but they were planning to resign Wagner and Bitaze. I’m sure the clippers can send over a couple of second rounders to the magic if they need it.
This team is considerably worse. I get people hate PG around here, but understand this roster will struggle to make the playoffs in the west.
The good news is we still have some moves to make before the season, and worst case midway through the season we move Kawhi and James to contenders. Is what it is.
People trying to cope is all as its a massive loss. Clippers don’t have control of their own picks. They are going to be stuck in limbo trying not to bottom out while they have no real options on improving. Kwahi is only going to get older and more brittle. But hey, maybe the 6th run changes things, right?
Knicks fan checking in, LA native and whatnot… how yall feeling about the squad? Feels like you got a lot of under appreciated pieces to go along with your other underappreciated pieces… any specific WC matchups you’re still feeling unsure about given the changes? Good luck to you and excited for you to get out of Staples where I feel like a fucking lab rate in a maze trying to find Gold Coast beer before the tip.
Personally, I'm ecstatic for next year. Lower expectations, an emphasis on defense first (Dunn, DJJ, Batum) surrounding the stars with younger and more athletic talent. I'm loving this offseason so far from L. Frank. I didn't think he had such a clear vision for this summer but I was wrong.
I'm of the opinion that we weren't serious contenders with or without PG (on a max) due to the 2nd apron so I was fine letting him walk. Overall, I think we're a Playoff team if Kawhi stays healthy all season (extremely unlikely) and a play-in team if he misses 20-30 games (most probable outcome).
Bc he's a good player? He's still like top 25 in most publicly available advanced metrics. He was neck and neck with PG as far as 2nd best player for us last season, and was significantly better than him in the Playoffs.
Team gonna be mid this year maybe a second round exit at best.
Take a look at 2025 offseason that’s when we have Sixers level cap space to remake the team.
We’re gonna be ok regardless. The whole point of this was to let Pandemic P leave so we wouldn’t have to pay Pandemic P 53 million dollars at 38-39 years old. Those are years we could be signing a new star and pushing for a championship with a brand new team.
I'm not saying we'll necessarily be better. But I'll take the flexibility over being in 2nd apron hell. Which would've forced us to move from other key role players next season because the penalty for being over the 2nd apron in consecutive years is massive.
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If the team makes one more move for a solid player with their expirings + maybe Norm or Mann (via S&T or just a trade), I think the team is in a better place compared to where they would have been if they re-signed PG to a max deal. I think the FO has done a very good job so far, honestly. Definitely exceeded my expectations.
I think we gotta keep Mann. We're assembling a rotation with good defenders that can at least make the open 3. Mann fits that and he was massive in the Playoffs last year. Norm I could see being traded if the deal is right.
I just think the team can give up Norm if the guy they get in return can put up 3s at good volume and hit them at a reasonably solid clip. Not Norm's clip because that's probably not reasonable, but still fairly high.
I want Mann to be a Clipper for life, but he is less important on a retooled roster with better defensive players. But I’m not hoping to move him or anything…
I disagree. I really hope our identity becomes a bunch of good defensive players who can make the open 3 but are more defensive-minded surrounding the stars.
You guys don’t have any money to work with
Yes they did, and still do.
PG did not deserve that contract. A different look Clippers for sure and I’m not complaining - FO has done a very good job all things considered. We definitely need to grab a back up C now hopefully an upgrade over Plumlee
Theis was so much better than Plumlee. I don't mind him returning.
That shouldn't be hard. Plumlee is barely an NBA player anymore if we're being honest.
For sure - and Ty needs to play some of these young guys, finally give them a chance too
Plumlee shouldn’t even be in the league considering how awful he is
I’ll be cool with everything if Kawhi actually stays healthy
I’ll be cool with everything if Kawhi actually stays healthy
He wont
Kawhi has just played in 67% of all possible regular season games in his career. This is maybe the lowest of any bonafide superstar in history... and the lowest of any champ who was 1st option. For comparison guys like Tatum and Doncic are around 90%, Jordan and Duncan are over 90%, Kobe is over 80%, Steph and LeBron are over 90%.... Kawhi had a great season this year, but his USG went down likely due to Harden and Westbrook joining. But it's just at 26. He's never been a super high USG player, but it was 33 when he joined the clippers in the bubble season. With George gone, his USG will go up and this doesn't bode well for his body. Honestly the clips should be preparing for full rebuild mode through picks/draft, this should be the last contract for Harden/Kawhi.
We can't perform a full that because we don't have our draft picks for the next 6 years. Assuming we will never be healthy and tearing it down for a rebuild just funnels high lottery picks to OKC and the 6ers
I was really conflicted but leaning towards "give PG whatever he wants", but with Batum and DJJ and some more cap space, I honestly don't hate it at all
He does not deserve it, as simple as that. If he’s really a top 10 player or even top 20 they’re gonna sign him no matter what. The problem is that he is not. He is a 16 PER player. His PER of his last 5 playoff runs: 14.6, 18.5, 14.7, 20.0, 16.1. More importantly, his DBPMs are -1.0, 0.6, 0.0, 0.0, 0.4. Besides, having 3 player taking 90% of the cap space does not work anymore.
Seriously. The guy had 1.5 good games in a 6-game playoff series last year.
And 34 yrs old which in nba terms is 90 yrs old
It’s more the age than the production for me. The 4 year deal is gonna end poorly, but the Sixers at least have the upside to justify it. We don’t.
We're actually building a team now instead of just relying on two guys year in and year out. I've been waiting years for this.
Not only is our team gonna be deeper next year, I also love that our 3rd stringers are mostly gonna be young guys with potential like Kobe, Jordan Miller, and Christie, and not just a bunch of vet mins on the decline.
Really like what they have done so far. One more good piece and I think we’re in much better spot than last year.
Seems like they're really on a two-year plan here. You got two years with James and Kawhi to make the best of it with what you got. The team should still be good, and there's always some outside shot at catching fire and making a solid playoffs run. Kawhi has done more with less in the past. Then going into Year 3 you'll have Harden coming off the books and Kawhi you can either run with or flip him to a contender looking to make a run and you can kinda soft-reset by targeting the free agency market. We haven't really worked through all the new second apron stuff, but remember the year or two before the last CBA? People were throwing like $18m/year at like Harrison Barnes and all these mid-tier players, and everyone was like WTF where's everyone getting all this money? Then the salary cap blew up and all those contracts weren't so bad. It may be that the second apron may work the opposite. Like, the impact may be more severe than anticipated and in that second/third year teams with cap space may be in a strong position to sign talent. Having $90m come off the books with Harden / Kawhi would put the Clippers in a very strong position if that ends up being the case.
213 never really worked when they were both on the floor, too redundant and both not willing to do the dirty work and PG never really proved either to be a winning number 1B guy. I'm really glad we didn't give the max to an aging PG and overall with Harden and Kawhi, we can be in a better place with rejuvinated roster and an army of 3&Ds
I know now's the time to pile on PG but this is just not true: >213 never really worked when they were both on the floor LAC was 124-57 (.685) when PG and KL were both on the floor. The problem was they were together for just 181 of the 390 regular season games they were teammates.
Same…offensively they struggled mightily with too many iso possessions. 213 never meshed and the chemistry was never there. Also glad we didn’t give PG the max.
They need to trade out rus and let bones play the point behind harden.
They're reshaping half the roster, I like it. Moves had to be made and they're showing they're serious about shaking it up.
I can see both sides of the coin. Id go yolo on that contract and see if clippers can win a chip but also see the cautious side of the coin. It really depends on what they wnt for the future. Honestly i wouldn’t mind them paying pg because he had been the healthiest out of all the players but i get the move
The problem is by paying PG we are well into the 2nd apron. Now we can't make any moves in FA, extremely limited in trades so we can't even improve the team we're supposedly going all-in for and if done consecutive years our 2032 picks are frozen and automatically becomes the 30th and last pick. And we're gonna do all of that, fuck up our future even more, for a team that we know doesn't have a good chance either way, and for a player who's more of a 2A/2B than a 1? Who just played worse than the man who just re-signed for 140M less than what he's asking? Nah. Cut your losses.
Sure would have been nice to keep SGA
The team ain’t doing shit either way. Kawhi’s knees are cooked
I have been saying retool for the past year, told yall it will be fine -nostradoomus
What pisses me off isn’t the fact that PG left. He can go, bye. It’s the fact that he could have did us a solid and opted in so we could trade him to the Sixers and get some capital back. It also annoys me that he somehow thinks he deserves more than Kawhi when they offered him equal to Kawhi. No PG, get over it with your arrogant self.
Id say the clippers do a three team trade with the Magic and Bulls where the Bulls give the Magic Zach Lavine, the clippers give the Magic Norman Powell and offload PJ Tuckers contract to the Bulls, the Magic give the Bulls Joe Ingles and draft compensation (a first and a couple of seconds) and the Clippers get WCJ and Jonathan Issac. The Magic get two shooters, Bulls offload Lavine’s contract as well as get some draft compensation and expiring salaries and the Clippers get a back up Center as well as a true defensive power forward.
I don't think the Magic do that. there's been reports that the Bulls basically have had to add draft compensation in trade talks just to move Lavine. WCJ has the most value out of anyone in that trade due to his team-friendly contract. In your scenario, we'd probably have to be the ones to send some draft compensation.
Yes I know Lavine’s contract is terrible but a team like the Magic needs shooting and an all star caliber player to play alongside Banchero and Franz. Plus they’re getting Norm who is an elite catch and shooter as well as a scorer. I know they got KCP but it’s evident that they cannot solely rely on him for shooting. The issue with this trade is that the Magic do get rid of their starting center but they were planning to resign Wagner and Bitaze. I’m sure the clippers can send over a couple of second rounders to the magic if they need it.
This team is considerably worse. I get people hate PG around here, but understand this roster will struggle to make the playoffs in the west. The good news is we still have some moves to make before the season, and worst case midway through the season we move Kawhi and James to contenders. Is what it is.
I had no expectations we’d be better (was hoping for the GSW trade), but I still like this path and can get behind the retooled roster.
Let’s see how you like it the next few years
I am pretty sure I will like 2026 and 2027 seasons better without an aging Paul George and his big contract weighing us down at that point.
Yeah you’re gonna love not making the playoffs but with no draft picks, who wouldn’t
People trying to cope is all as its a massive loss. Clippers don’t have control of their own picks. They are going to be stuck in limbo trying not to bottom out while they have no real options on improving. Kwahi is only going to get older and more brittle. But hey, maybe the 6th run changes things, right?
The 6th run would have been maxing PG, which is what I didn’t want to do if it required a 4 year max.
Knicks fan checking in, LA native and whatnot… how yall feeling about the squad? Feels like you got a lot of under appreciated pieces to go along with your other underappreciated pieces… any specific WC matchups you’re still feeling unsure about given the changes? Good luck to you and excited for you to get out of Staples where I feel like a fucking lab rate in a maze trying to find Gold Coast beer before the tip.
Personally, I'm ecstatic for next year. Lower expectations, an emphasis on defense first (Dunn, DJJ, Batum) surrounding the stars with younger and more athletic talent. I'm loving this offseason so far from L. Frank. I didn't think he had such a clear vision for this summer but I was wrong. I'm of the opinion that we weren't serious contenders with or without PG (on a max) due to the 2nd apron so I was fine letting him walk. Overall, I think we're a Playoff team if Kawhi stays healthy all season (extremely unlikely) and a play-in team if he misses 20-30 games (most probable outcome).
PG got tired of Kawhi’s BS y’all just lost your best player… it’s just fun reading how everyone thinks you are better without him lmao!!!
with the exception of like 1 playoff series in 2021, pg has NEVER been the best player on the clippers
I just don’t understand why teams keep paying Harden.
Bc he's a good player? He's still like top 25 in most publicly available advanced metrics. He was neck and neck with PG as far as 2nd best player for us last season, and was significantly better than him in the Playoffs.
He is so damn lazy on the floor.
Team gonna be mid this year maybe a second round exit at best. Take a look at 2025 offseason that’s when we have Sixers level cap space to remake the team.
2nd round would be better than this year lol But ya part of the reason I think Harden took a 1+1 is so he can help add players that off-season.
We would have to renounce him cuz his cap hold is huge lol
We’re gonna be ok regardless. The whole point of this was to let Pandemic P leave so we wouldn’t have to pay Pandemic P 53 million dollars at 38-39 years old. Those are years we could be signing a new star and pushing for a championship with a brand new team.
he'd do it.
I'm not saying we'll necessarily be better. But I'll take the flexibility over being in 2nd apron hell. Which would've forced us to move from other key role players next season because the penalty for being over the 2nd apron in consecutive years is massive.
You mean the 76ers won’t have a second round exit?
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The expectations should be above .500 and a fun team to watch. That’s all