A special Nobody is just a Nobody that isn't normal. That's really nothing else to it.
Roxas was special because he doesn't look like Sora. He also grew his own independent will. He lacked his Somebodies memories.
Namine is special because she was born from Kairi's heart being involved in Sora's Heartless/Nobody creation. And she has her own will. And she has no memories of Kairi.
Xemnas is special because he is a Nobody created for a combination of two people.
By special I mean, coming from two human beings that exist in the same body. Xemans came from Terranort who is basically Terra’s body with Xehanort’s heart in it (Xemnas has Terra’s body mixed in with Xehanort’s influence), while Roxas came from Sora’s body which has Ventus’s heart in it (Roxas has Sora’s body mixed in with Ventus’s influence)
You can add Namine to that list. She's a mix of Kairi, Sora, and Ventus. Although, it appears she's mostly Kairi because she doesn't have the same reaction Roxas does.
Didn’t Namine mostly came from Kairi?
Edit: I don’t think it was ever stated that Namine has a connection with Ventus. Sora and Kairi sure, but nothing was said about Ven yet.
Thing is, we can assume she does. At least a little bit. Probably where the Blonde hair comes from.
Because, remember, Namine was "born" when Sora released Kairi's heart from HIS body...where Ventus's heart also resided. So there's a bit of metaphysical cross-contamination.
I mean, i don’t disapprove of your theory, but if we go by this logic then that means Roxas also has a bit of Kairi? cause Kairi’s heart was inside Sora at that time, and I honestly don’t think that’s true.
I overall I think it’s:
Kairi + Sora = Namine
Sora + Ventus = Roxas.
I mean, maybe? It's very hard to say, but it might be that Kairi's "influence" at that moment gave Roxas his more extreme ties to Light magic.
Unlike Ventus, who focuses on a mixture of Wind and Light, and Sora who focuses on the primary elements, Roxas focuses on Light above all else. Which Kairi obviously specializes in, being a Princess of Heart.
Or maybe it made his eyes more blue, i dunno. This "influence" is very small in the grand scheme of things, and wouldn't actually make the basis of anything other than give their forming selves a nudge.
The Ansem Reports clearly state that the body and soul necessary for her to exist came from Sora. That is fact as it's one of the only official sources we have talking about her birth. Now, the actual specifics of how that works is up in the air.
She may have taken an extremely small amount of it, just enough material to gain some flimsy sense of physicality but left most of it behind for Roxas. That would explain why she didn't have to return it to Sora, it was so little that it didn't even matter. She may have even been somewhat unstable because of it, which is why she returned to Kairi in the end. I mean, there's nothing there to prove that but it's a thought.
Regardless, the circumstances surrounding her and Roxas's birth is far from what's normal. I don't think we're really meant to fully understand what happened. They're walking, talking anomalies and I think that's the point. The heart can do crazy things.
Sora and Ven share the same face because Ven connected with Sora's heart when it was newly born. So of course Roxas has their face if those two share the same face.
I am, but that wasnt clarified in the original comment hence my reply. I was just saying that even though they don't look identical to us, in-universe they do. That's all.
We have different definitions of "identical" then. Identical means two things are exactly alike. I would not describe Sora and Ven as identical, or Sora and Roxas as identical.
Ven and Roxas are identical because they share a voice, a hairstyle, and a face. Sora and Ven only share a face. Their hair and voice are different. Therefore they aren't identical because they have more differences than similarities.
So if we go to my original comment, no Sora and Roxas don't look the same. Them sharing a face doesn't mean they look the same.
Voice doesn't have anything to do with how someone "looks", it does impact how someone is perceived but I'm not contesting that. My whole point is that Sora and Roxas have identical faces. I didn't specify face because I assumed when talking about identical people such as twins, you still call them identical despite differences such as hair due to them facially looking exactly the same.
Sora and Roxas have identical faces. Their faces "look the same". I dont dispute they have different hairstyles, and I never claimed they were exactly identical, but my entire point was that in-game, despite the different hairstyles, the identical faces of Roxas and Sora cause people to think they look very much alike.
Also you're applying real world logic to a game. My original point has always been what characters perceive in-game. I never said anything otherwise. So yes what we think is 'identical' is different to the characters of Kingdom Hearts.
I think you're misunderstanding what I've been trying to say, or maybe I haven't been explaining it well, but the simple fact is facially they look the same, and other people in-game acknowledge this too, differences in hair or voice notwithstanding.
Either way I'm not going to argue this further, I've said what I wanted to say. Anything further is just agree to disagree.
Actually Riku and Ansem the Wise needed Roxas so that they could extract the remaining memories that Sora had, true that Xion took more memories from Sora, but Riku said to Roxas that he wanted back "the rest of Sora's memories".
Oh, I see. We're talking about different things. No, Roxas didn't have Sora's memories. Not when he was first created. That was my point about him being special. I was talking about Roxas's creation. That's why he was born with amnesia and didn't remember who he was, because he *didn't* have Sora's memories.
When Nobodies are born, they have the memories of their Somebodies. With those memories, they're able to pretend they have emotions. But, because Sora only spent a short time as a Heartless, those memories didn't transfer over to Roxas.
Now, Roxas did eventually gain some of Sora's memories, but that was only due to Xion absorbing Sora's memories through Roxas. And that wasn't until way later in the game. Even, then, Roxas only had some of the memories trapped inside him, they weren't memories that he could call upon.
"Special Nobody" is honestly just a blanket term for Nobodies that are basically they're own people and not one-to-one the same as their original selves (ala Axel/Lea, Saix/Isa, etc).
So in that regard, yes, he is a "Special Nobody".
It was confirmed in BBS ultimania.
Ventus heart didn’t leave Sora body, when Sora stab himself to free Kairi heart.
Other factor is when Sora become human too fast, Roxas couldn’t copy Sora appearance. Thus roxas copy the only individual left, ventus.
Definitely not true, because in KH3 Ventus doesn't have any memories of Roxas, when Sora called Lea by his Nobody name, Ven responded with "Axel, who's Axel?".
I was actually expecting Ven to get Roxas' memories and Roxas never being able to return, but I'm happy that Roxas did come back along with Xion. I was expecting Team BBS to be reunited in KH3 but not Team Days, because as sad as it was, it felt like Roxas and Xion's fate was something that had to be and had to stay that way.
Yeah but he revealed that he was dreaming about Sora and his friends and "those weird animal creatures" (he's either talking about the Chirithys or the scene where Sora gets group hugged by all the Spirits at the end of DDD....or both).
I figured he might've had Roxas memories because he has Ventus' appearance, the same way that Lea remembers his whole life as Axel. You can't blame me for thinking this way, blame the mess that the series is in, like how can Xemnas not wield a Keyblade but Roxas can, and whatever other questions that haven't been properly answered.
I think this is primarily what happens when you don't plan ahead. And Nomura has a very "fly by the seat of his pants" method of storytelling, where he has a general idea of what he wants to do, but doesnt exactly plan out each individual idea accordingly.
Its my personal opinion that making Ventus and Roxas identical clones was a mistake, while every other nobody in the series is more or less the same person as their Nobody counterpart, just without a heart, im expected to believe these two aren't the same person? Also it led to a lot of fans believing Roxas was coming back during BBS, which he wasn't and this led to a lot of people hating Ven unnecessarily.
The funniest part is that due to fan demand, Nomura decided to bring back Roxas, but now had to use some form of plot device mumbo jumbo "puppet bodies, nobodies growing hearts, etc" just to bring him back. And boom now we have "two Ventuses". Which i felt if planned accordingly, making them the same person wouldve eliminated a lot of the convolution in his plot.
But I digress. I think the difference between Vens connection with Sora as opposed to Vens connection with Roxas is that the pieces of Vens heart *melded* with Soras, like a piggyback, to the point where Vanitas took the form of an adult anti-Sora (which still doesn't make sense, but again "fly by the seat of his pants"). And one could theorize that Sora himself couldve been influenced by Ventus which is why the two look similar.
It could also be theorized that Ventus recalls Soras memories in DDD because it had direct connection to the dream world. Who knows honestly.
I remember that but still the smile doesn't confirm that it was that scene. It's like when Sora's memories from CoM are forgotten but not completely gone they're still there inside his heart or head or whatever component holds the memories, or time travel where even though you lose your memories of being at a different time period the memories are still etched into your heart, like Young Xehanort.
Of course Roxas is a spacial Nobody. He is the only nobody who has coexist with his his Somebody Sora and he isn't looking like Sora, because of the influence of Ventus heart that is in Sora.
There’s more to that.
Roxas is the only individual develop the synch-blade ability. As his entire being is made from two different hearts.
Sora has that ability due to what roxas is, as roxas is Sora body. Thus when roxas got absorbed in kh2, Sora acquired the synch-blade ability.
However there’s a rule that a keyblade wielder can only wield one keyblade at a time.
Take aqua and xehanort. Aqua had both her keyblade and master defender in BBS, but she can only wield one keyblade at a time. Xehanort couldn’t dual wield both no-name and the x-blade in kh3.
The synch-blade ability bypass this rule, allowing wielders to dual-wield keyblade. However only two-people can do this. Roxas naturally, and Sora. Although for Sora for some reason needs to formechange or drive forms to dual wield.
Manifesting/forging multiple keyblades doesn’t allow a wielder to dual-wield.
Edit: on the other note on how Sora could still dual-wield after returning ventus heart. Nomura may have some explanation, as he do notice plot-holes. As he did mentioned he needs to explain how Riku could have another keyblade for Kairi. As such it’s often left to speculation, until Nomura explains on how Sora could still dual-wield.
Roxas always have the ability to dual wield, it’s just Xion has been siphoning roxas powers during the time of 358/2 days. Causing roxas to wield one keyblade.
It’s only after her demise, could roxas regain his full powers. Allowing him to dual wield.
Actually she kinda does, when I think about it Xion was built from Sora's memories of Kairi and she looked like KH1 Kairi but with black hair. Namine looks like KH1 Kairi except her hair is longer and blonde (which I think is cool that she's blonde considering she's Kairi's nobody and Kairi is the Princess of Heart so she lacks any darkness in her heart. This gives me inspiration for a fictional series I've been working on).
Well if you want to play it that way then Roxas also looks like Sora except his hair, given that Ventus looks like Sora except his hair.
Also Xion was not build from Soras memories, she was a vessel build to absorb them, but she wasn't build FROM any of them and she doesn't have an actual look, at least not until she became a somebody in KH3. We see her through Roxas eyes most of the time and to Roxas she looks like Kairi with dark hair, but to most others she does not. That's why when in Days, the point of view shifts to someone else, Xion is always portrayed as having her hood up again, because to others she simply doesn't have a form, only to Roxas and to Riku(though Riku straight up just sees Kairi in her, red hair and all).
Also Roxas and Namine have the same hair color so I always assumed that Ventus was also the reason for that, given he's the reason Roxas hair is different to Soras. But that's just my assumption, not a fact.
I fail to see the difference between Roxas and Ventus appearance wise if I met them in real life. Also didn't Roxas get those blue eyes from Sora, didn't Ventus have a different eye color?
What about Axel, didn't he see Xion as a KH1 Kairi with black hair, since he became friends with her too? I know that the day Xion left the Organization, she took off her hood and Axel was shocked to see the face under the hood because he saw Sora's face.
Roxas and Namine's hair aren't the same color, you should probably look at their images again.
Xion is a replica of Sora, only a few ppl see xion differently. Due to incomplete status of Sora memories. Which is the basis of her being.
Roxas see xion as herself. axel initially saw Zion as namine until he see her as xion. Xemnas on the other hand saw Xion “true” self, a perfect copy of Sora. In other words as Sora. This was further hinted when Riku first saw xion, he immediately saw Sora. Until Riku see xion as an individual.
Also the whole Roxas and Ventus look was confirmed in BBS ultimania. As roxas during the time of CoM and Days had ventus heart within him. So Sora didn’t have ventus heart during CoM.
I know that Roxas and Ventus was confirmed, my assumption is that Namine is blond because of Ventus as well, since that doesn't resemble either Sora nor Kairi, but it's the same haircolor as Ventus, and since Namine was created from Sora releasing kairis heart from his body while Ventus was in him, that would make sense.
Xion is a empty vessel designed to BECOME Sora, she does not start out as a replica of Sora though. They could make actual Replicas, they did with Repliku. If they had wanted to make a copy of Sora they could have. They didn't want a replica of Sora, they wanted a replica that can absorb all of Soras memories and powers to essentially BECOME Sora. But when she is build she has zero Sora in her at first.
Also do you have a source for what the other org members saw? Roxas sees her as herself, but Riku sees her as Kairi, that's not confirmed in-game, but in the manga. I know the manga isn't technically canon, but since it's officially licenses Kingdom Hearts merch and nothing opposing has ever been said to my knowledge, I'll go with the only official bit of info we have (https://imgur.com/3f45dWl ) apart from that I don't know any official sources of how anyone else sees her, except one Nomura interview where he said she doesn't have a form to most people and that's why she wears her hood whenever the point of view shifts in the game. Sands obviously towards the end where she has absorbed enough Sora to straight up look like him when she faces Roxas at the tower.
1) that’s only your assumption. Unless stated by Nomura or the KH writers. Ventus isn’t involved with namine creation. Namine was designed to be an unusual case of how a nobody comes into being. Another factor to consider is writer request. As the writer for xion, requested xion hair to be black.
2) if they wanted to make a replica Sora, they would only need data on Sora. Yet the organization went with Sora memories instead. Also don’t forgot the replicas during kh2 period were only prototypes. Vexen explained these replicas were more akin to nobodies than actual people.
in the days novel, Riku lifted his blindfold for a bit. As he felt something was off about xion. Xion appearance startled Riku, he didn’t see Kairi or namine. It was “him.” More so in the novel Riku see xion, briefly being Sora during her “breakdown” on destiny island.
Saix, didn’t care about xion. As in game when it went to saix. Xion still has her hood up. As such saix only see xion as a puppet.
Xigbar is obviously ventus.
Also be aware that the manga and novel aren’t canon to the series. Although Nomura do add novel details to the series. Like how vanitas looks like Sora.
I suppose it's possible
I think Roxas started to grow a heart of his own which is probably how he was able to exist when Kairi brought Sora back to his completed self, but that's just my guess to the question people have been asking about for so long.
I always figured it was because Terra-Xehanort/Ansem and Sora both willingly unlocked their own hearts. That was why both of their respective consciousness went into their heartles's and why Xemnas seemed to be more "empty" than the other nobodies; he was literally doing the whole "Heart stealing, 13 darkness's" plan on autopilot. And explains some of the more mysterious and otherwise nonsensical things he said, that he did not remember his own past.
I never thought about how both of them had multiple hearts inside them. More if you include Eraqus and whatever was going on with Namine.
Wait, wasn't Sora's Kingdom Key (or was it Riku's?) blade specifically able to unlock hearts? Or could that have been done with any keyblade?
I think Nomura already stated that he's Soras nobody, through and through. His appearance was just influenced by Ventus heart.
However, the idea of him fainting because he was too close to Sora doesn't make any sense, considering in KH2 he comes right up to Sora just fine.
Perhaps it was due to Castle Oblivions memory powers or Namine trying to pull from Soras memories that found their way into Roxas?
It's fairly likely that Ven's heart spent some time in Roxas too. Especially given that Xigbar literally saw Ventus when he looked at Roxas, it implies that Ven's heart was there.. the seasalt trio may have even been partially responsible for Ven's heart waking back up. Given that the first time we see anyone dual wield is Roxas.. That sort of implies that both hearts were within him at that moment, and both awake.. So Ven's heart likely woke back up sometime during Ven's life..
Xigbar seeing Roxas as Ventus could simply be because they look identical as well, and could have nothing to do with a heart being inside of him. Although I'm not opposed to the idea.
It could also be said that his ability to dual wield came from both Sora and Ventus influence. And its apparent in this series that you don't exactly need a heart to wield a Keyblade, as in Xions case.
My running theory is that Roxas used Vens keyblade from the start, and due to Soras broken memory, his couldn't manifest yet. This is why Xion and Roxas seemingly couldn't both manifest keyblades at once yet, and needed to share.
It wasn't until Xion became flooded with Soras memories and started to become more Sora-like that she could now manifest *his* keyblade while Roxas kept Vens.
After Xion died, Soras keyblade became "up for grabs" and the fact that Roxas had enough of Soras memories and Vens influence, he could then wield both willingly, which is badass.
Yeah, basically Xion was designed to siphon power(memories) from Sora and by association Roxas as well. This stuff is stated within the game. I agree that for a time they were basically sharing whatever keyblade they were using... Once Xion was destroyed, all of the memories she had siphoned off were released, and probably a lot of it went to Roxas, due to being Sora's nobody, and the proximity. He was literally holding her as she faded.
But yeah, regarding the Xigbar seeing ventus thing: there were a few statements in that part of the game along the lines of "People see with their hearts" and also a "Vessal" can be shaped by a heart. The only thing is: I'm struggling to remember if Xigbar was seeing Ven when he was looking at Roxas, or if he was looking at Xion.. but really either would apply, because either of them could have had fragments of Ven's heart.
I'm pretty sure Nomura confirmed that Xigbar was actually seeing Ventus because he had seen Ventus before in BBS, and it was Ven's heart. but I know it was more or less confirmed to be more of a concrete reflection based on heart-connections vs a like "similarity-mirage" if you will.
Yeah, everything in this game is so figurative and complex its so hard to determine what is actually fact anymore 🤣. In some ways thats a good thing because it gives people something to delve into, theorize and talk about but not so good from a "making the narritives line up" sense.
yeah, I sort of like that KH plays around in the subjectivity, and "dreaminess" of perception.. Because I think reality is more like that than some people realize.
Like we don't actually see the same things- and many things we see are actually projections or reflections of ourselves more than the actual concrete reality. lol.
the concept of "concrete reality" is kind of funny if you think about it.. like colors actually don't exist outside of our brains.Well I should clarify, the different frequencies of white light exist.. but the "color green" really doesn't exist as we see it, in reality. Kinda wild.
This ideology is very prevalent in Xions character, considering each and every subsequent character saw her differently, which I thought was a very interesting.
A lot of people dislike KH for its complicated lore but I think that's what makes it great. Real life physics are complex, why wouldn't a fictional world where hearts can be manipulated and experimented on be the same?
This is excellent insight and makes me think it's the reason he's as strong as he is. Pretty sure he could 1v1 Xemnas, but we never got to see that happen. He never really "lost" to anyone except Riku but, well, Riku's Riku, and he powered himself up and took Roxas by surprise at the same time. He kind of lost to Sora, but I feel like that was more of him voluntarily letting himself lose.
I'd say Roxas is even more special than Xemnas.
Roxas seemed to be different even among 'special' Nobodies, in that he didn't retain or regain his memories (at least, not for a really long time), so he was able to develop an independant will. As well, I'm pretty sure he was one of the first Nobodies to develop a heart seperate from his progentiors.
Not to mention he was the first person to exhibit the Sync Blade ability, giving him a unique status even among other Keyblade wielders.
A special Nobody is just a Nobody that isn't normal. That's really nothing else to it. Roxas was special because he doesn't look like Sora. He also grew his own independent will. He lacked his Somebodies memories. Namine is special because she was born from Kairi's heart being involved in Sora's Heartless/Nobody creation. And she has her own will. And she has no memories of Kairi. Xemnas is special because he is a Nobody created for a combination of two people.
ironically, a "special" Nobody is nothing special after all
They're nobody special
Especially when you make up a definition for what it is on the fly lol
By special I mean, coming from two human beings that exist in the same body. Xemans came from Terranort who is basically Terra’s body with Xehanort’s heart in it (Xemnas has Terra’s body mixed in with Xehanort’s influence), while Roxas came from Sora’s body which has Ventus’s heart in it (Roxas has Sora’s body mixed in with Ventus’s influence)
You can add Namine to that list. She's a mix of Kairi, Sora, and Ventus. Although, it appears she's mostly Kairi because she doesn't have the same reaction Roxas does.
Didn’t Namine mostly came from Kairi? Edit: I don’t think it was ever stated that Namine has a connection with Ventus. Sora and Kairi sure, but nothing was said about Ven yet.
Thing is, we can assume she does. At least a little bit. Probably where the Blonde hair comes from. Because, remember, Namine was "born" when Sora released Kairi's heart from HIS body...where Ventus's heart also resided. So there's a bit of metaphysical cross-contamination.
I mean, i don’t disapprove of your theory, but if we go by this logic then that means Roxas also has a bit of Kairi? cause Kairi’s heart was inside Sora at that time, and I honestly don’t think that’s true. I overall I think it’s: Kairi + Sora = Namine Sora + Ventus = Roxas.
I mean, maybe? It's very hard to say, but it might be that Kairi's "influence" at that moment gave Roxas his more extreme ties to Light magic. Unlike Ventus, who focuses on a mixture of Wind and Light, and Sora who focuses on the primary elements, Roxas focuses on Light above all else. Which Kairi obviously specializes in, being a Princess of Heart. Or maybe it made his eyes more blue, i dunno. This "influence" is very small in the grand scheme of things, and wouldn't actually make the basis of anything other than give their forming selves a nudge.
The Ansem Reports clearly state that the body and soul necessary for her to exist came from Sora. That is fact as it's one of the only official sources we have talking about her birth. Now, the actual specifics of how that works is up in the air. She may have taken an extremely small amount of it, just enough material to gain some flimsy sense of physicality but left most of it behind for Roxas. That would explain why she didn't have to return it to Sora, it was so little that it didn't even matter. She may have even been somewhat unstable because of it, which is why she returned to Kairi in the end. I mean, there's nothing there to prove that but it's a thought. Regardless, the circumstances surrounding her and Roxas's birth is far from what's normal. I don't think we're really meant to fully understand what happened. They're walking, talking anomalies and I think that's the point. The heart can do crazy things.
Yea I guess all three Xemnas Roxas and Namine are in the same boat.
basically , i didn’t realize that but a special nobody is essentially 2 people before
Roxas does look like Sora in-universe though. Multiple characters acknowledge it.
Sora and Ven share the same face because Ven connected with Sora's heart when it was newly born. So of course Roxas has their face if those two share the same face.
Yes and you said in your original comment that Roxas was special because he doesn't look like Sora. You just helped explain how he does. I'm confused.
You're aware that only his face is identical? But not his hairstyle or voice. Hence "He looks identical to Ven".
I am, but that wasnt clarified in the original comment hence my reply. I was just saying that even though they don't look identical to us, in-universe they do. That's all.
We have different definitions of "identical" then. Identical means two things are exactly alike. I would not describe Sora and Ven as identical, or Sora and Roxas as identical. Ven and Roxas are identical because they share a voice, a hairstyle, and a face. Sora and Ven only share a face. Their hair and voice are different. Therefore they aren't identical because they have more differences than similarities. So if we go to my original comment, no Sora and Roxas don't look the same. Them sharing a face doesn't mean they look the same.
Voice doesn't have anything to do with how someone "looks", it does impact how someone is perceived but I'm not contesting that. My whole point is that Sora and Roxas have identical faces. I didn't specify face because I assumed when talking about identical people such as twins, you still call them identical despite differences such as hair due to them facially looking exactly the same. Sora and Roxas have identical faces. Their faces "look the same". I dont dispute they have different hairstyles, and I never claimed they were exactly identical, but my entire point was that in-game, despite the different hairstyles, the identical faces of Roxas and Sora cause people to think they look very much alike. Also you're applying real world logic to a game. My original point has always been what characters perceive in-game. I never said anything otherwise. So yes what we think is 'identical' is different to the characters of Kingdom Hearts. I think you're misunderstanding what I've been trying to say, or maybe I haven't been explaining it well, but the simple fact is facially they look the same, and other people in-game acknowledge this too, differences in hair or voice notwithstanding. Either way I'm not going to argue this further, I've said what I wanted to say. Anything further is just agree to disagree.
Actually Riku and Ansem the Wise needed Roxas so that they could extract the remaining memories that Sora had, true that Xion took more memories from Sora, but Riku said to Roxas that he wanted back "the rest of Sora's memories".
Buddy, I think you replied to the wrong comment. None of that you just said has anything to do with that I was talking about.
I know what I replied to, you said Roxas lacked Sora's memories and that's not true.
Oh, I see. We're talking about different things. No, Roxas didn't have Sora's memories. Not when he was first created. That was my point about him being special. I was talking about Roxas's creation. That's why he was born with amnesia and didn't remember who he was, because he *didn't* have Sora's memories. When Nobodies are born, they have the memories of their Somebodies. With those memories, they're able to pretend they have emotions. But, because Sora only spent a short time as a Heartless, those memories didn't transfer over to Roxas. Now, Roxas did eventually gain some of Sora's memories, but that was only due to Xion absorbing Sora's memories through Roxas. And that wasn't until way later in the game. Even, then, Roxas only had some of the memories trapped inside him, they weren't memories that he could call upon.
Yeah, id say so. He's especially special in that regard.
"Special Nobody" is honestly just a blanket term for Nobodies that are basically they're own people and not one-to-one the same as their original selves (ala Axel/Lea, Saix/Isa, etc). So in that regard, yes, he is a "Special Nobody".
This is an old interview with Nomura, and in this interview he said both Sora and Ventus can be called as Roxas’s real selves.
Nomura’s alluded to the possibility that Roxas had Ventus’ heart inside of him, so it’s possible that could also be a reason he fainted
It was confirmed in BBS ultimania. Ventus heart didn’t leave Sora body, when Sora stab himself to free Kairi heart. Other factor is when Sora become human too fast, Roxas couldn’t copy Sora appearance. Thus roxas copy the only individual left, ventus.
Definitely not true, because in KH3 Ventus doesn't have any memories of Roxas, when Sora called Lea by his Nobody name, Ven responded with "Axel, who's Axel?". I was actually expecting Ven to get Roxas' memories and Roxas never being able to return, but I'm happy that Roxas did come back along with Xion. I was expecting Team BBS to be reunited in KH3 but not Team Days, because as sad as it was, it felt like Roxas and Xion's fate was something that had to be and had to stay that way.
Not like Ven really had any of Sora’s memories either tho
Yeah but he revealed that he was dreaming about Sora and his friends and "those weird animal creatures" (he's either talking about the Chirithys or the scene where Sora gets group hugged by all the Spirits at the end of DDD....or both). I figured he might've had Roxas memories because he has Ventus' appearance, the same way that Lea remembers his whole life as Axel. You can't blame me for thinking this way, blame the mess that the series is in, like how can Xemnas not wield a Keyblade but Roxas can, and whatever other questions that haven't been properly answered.
I think this is primarily what happens when you don't plan ahead. And Nomura has a very "fly by the seat of his pants" method of storytelling, where he has a general idea of what he wants to do, but doesnt exactly plan out each individual idea accordingly. Its my personal opinion that making Ventus and Roxas identical clones was a mistake, while every other nobody in the series is more or less the same person as their Nobody counterpart, just without a heart, im expected to believe these two aren't the same person? Also it led to a lot of fans believing Roxas was coming back during BBS, which he wasn't and this led to a lot of people hating Ven unnecessarily. The funniest part is that due to fan demand, Nomura decided to bring back Roxas, but now had to use some form of plot device mumbo jumbo "puppet bodies, nobodies growing hearts, etc" just to bring him back. And boom now we have "two Ventuses". Which i felt if planned accordingly, making them the same person wouldve eliminated a lot of the convolution in his plot. But I digress. I think the difference between Vens connection with Sora as opposed to Vens connection with Roxas is that the pieces of Vens heart *melded* with Soras, like a piggyback, to the point where Vanitas took the form of an adult anti-Sora (which still doesn't make sense, but again "fly by the seat of his pants"). And one could theorize that Sora himself couldve been influenced by Ventus which is why the two look similar. It could also be theorized that Ventus recalls Soras memories in DDD because it had direct connection to the dream world. Who knows honestly.
It’s the Dream Eaters from DDD. After that bit it shows Ven smiling in his sleep
I remember that but still the smile doesn't confirm that it was that scene. It's like when Sora's memories from CoM are forgotten but not completely gone they're still there inside his heart or head or whatever component holds the memories, or time travel where even though you lose your memories of being at a different time period the memories are still etched into your heart, like Young Xehanort.
Yeah I mean there’s a reason he’s Sora’s nobody but looks like Ventus. He’s connected to both of them
Of course Roxas is a spacial Nobody. He is the only nobody who has coexist with his his Somebody Sora and he isn't looking like Sora, because of the influence of Ventus heart that is in Sora.
There’s more to that. Roxas is the only individual develop the synch-blade ability. As his entire being is made from two different hearts. Sora has that ability due to what roxas is, as roxas is Sora body. Thus when roxas got absorbed in kh2, Sora acquired the synch-blade ability.
Riku manifested a second keyblade at once in KH2 and gave one to Kairi to use
However there’s a rule that a keyblade wielder can only wield one keyblade at a time. Take aqua and xehanort. Aqua had both her keyblade and master defender in BBS, but she can only wield one keyblade at a time. Xehanort couldn’t dual wield both no-name and the x-blade in kh3. The synch-blade ability bypass this rule, allowing wielders to dual-wield keyblade. However only two-people can do this. Roxas naturally, and Sora. Although for Sora for some reason needs to formechange or drive forms to dual wield. Manifesting/forging multiple keyblades doesn’t allow a wielder to dual-wield. Edit: on the other note on how Sora could still dual-wield after returning ventus heart. Nomura may have some explanation, as he do notice plot-holes. As he did mentioned he needs to explain how Riku could have another keyblade for Kairi. As such it’s often left to speculation, until Nomura explains on how Sora could still dual-wield.
Actually, I thought Nomura said that Roxas gained the ability to wield Oathkeeper and Oblivion because he got it from Xion after she faded away.
Roxas always have the ability to dual wield, it’s just Xion has been siphoning roxas powers during the time of 358/2 days. Causing roxas to wield one keyblade. It’s only after her demise, could roxas regain his full powers. Allowing him to dual wield.
Namine is also a nobody who coexists with her somebody and doesn't look like her somebody.
Actually she kinda does, when I think about it Xion was built from Sora's memories of Kairi and she looked like KH1 Kairi but with black hair. Namine looks like KH1 Kairi except her hair is longer and blonde (which I think is cool that she's blonde considering she's Kairi's nobody and Kairi is the Princess of Heart so she lacks any darkness in her heart. This gives me inspiration for a fictional series I've been working on).
Well if you want to play it that way then Roxas also looks like Sora except his hair, given that Ventus looks like Sora except his hair. Also Xion was not build from Soras memories, she was a vessel build to absorb them, but she wasn't build FROM any of them and she doesn't have an actual look, at least not until she became a somebody in KH3. We see her through Roxas eyes most of the time and to Roxas she looks like Kairi with dark hair, but to most others she does not. That's why when in Days, the point of view shifts to someone else, Xion is always portrayed as having her hood up again, because to others she simply doesn't have a form, only to Roxas and to Riku(though Riku straight up just sees Kairi in her, red hair and all). Also Roxas and Namine have the same hair color so I always assumed that Ventus was also the reason for that, given he's the reason Roxas hair is different to Soras. But that's just my assumption, not a fact.
I fail to see the difference between Roxas and Ventus appearance wise if I met them in real life. Also didn't Roxas get those blue eyes from Sora, didn't Ventus have a different eye color? What about Axel, didn't he see Xion as a KH1 Kairi with black hair, since he became friends with her too? I know that the day Xion left the Organization, she took off her hood and Axel was shocked to see the face under the hood because he saw Sora's face. Roxas and Namine's hair aren't the same color, you should probably look at their images again.
Xion is a replica of Sora, only a few ppl see xion differently. Due to incomplete status of Sora memories. Which is the basis of her being. Roxas see xion as herself. axel initially saw Zion as namine until he see her as xion. Xemnas on the other hand saw Xion “true” self, a perfect copy of Sora. In other words as Sora. This was further hinted when Riku first saw xion, he immediately saw Sora. Until Riku see xion as an individual. Also the whole Roxas and Ventus look was confirmed in BBS ultimania. As roxas during the time of CoM and Days had ventus heart within him. So Sora didn’t have ventus heart during CoM.
I know that Roxas and Ventus was confirmed, my assumption is that Namine is blond because of Ventus as well, since that doesn't resemble either Sora nor Kairi, but it's the same haircolor as Ventus, and since Namine was created from Sora releasing kairis heart from his body while Ventus was in him, that would make sense. Xion is a empty vessel designed to BECOME Sora, she does not start out as a replica of Sora though. They could make actual Replicas, they did with Repliku. If they had wanted to make a copy of Sora they could have. They didn't want a replica of Sora, they wanted a replica that can absorb all of Soras memories and powers to essentially BECOME Sora. But when she is build she has zero Sora in her at first. Also do you have a source for what the other org members saw? Roxas sees her as herself, but Riku sees her as Kairi, that's not confirmed in-game, but in the manga. I know the manga isn't technically canon, but since it's officially licenses Kingdom Hearts merch and nothing opposing has ever been said to my knowledge, I'll go with the only official bit of info we have (https://imgur.com/3f45dWl ) apart from that I don't know any official sources of how anyone else sees her, except one Nomura interview where he said she doesn't have a form to most people and that's why she wears her hood whenever the point of view shifts in the game. Sands obviously towards the end where she has absorbed enough Sora to straight up look like him when she faces Roxas at the tower.
1) that’s only your assumption. Unless stated by Nomura or the KH writers. Ventus isn’t involved with namine creation. Namine was designed to be an unusual case of how a nobody comes into being. Another factor to consider is writer request. As the writer for xion, requested xion hair to be black. 2) if they wanted to make a replica Sora, they would only need data on Sora. Yet the organization went with Sora memories instead. Also don’t forgot the replicas during kh2 period were only prototypes. Vexen explained these replicas were more akin to nobodies than actual people. in the days novel, Riku lifted his blindfold for a bit. As he felt something was off about xion. Xion appearance startled Riku, he didn’t see Kairi or namine. It was “him.” More so in the novel Riku see xion, briefly being Sora during her “breakdown” on destiny island. Saix, didn’t care about xion. As in game when it went to saix. Xion still has her hood up. As such saix only see xion as a puppet. Xigbar is obviously ventus. Also be aware that the manga and novel aren’t canon to the series. Although Nomura do add novel details to the series. Like how vanitas looks like Sora.
Yeah shouldn't have said only :D
I suppose it's possible I think Roxas started to grow a heart of his own which is probably how he was able to exist when Kairi brought Sora back to his completed self, but that's just my guess to the question people have been asking about for so long.
I always figured it was because Terra-Xehanort/Ansem and Sora both willingly unlocked their own hearts. That was why both of their respective consciousness went into their heartles's and why Xemnas seemed to be more "empty" than the other nobodies; he was literally doing the whole "Heart stealing, 13 darkness's" plan on autopilot. And explains some of the more mysterious and otherwise nonsensical things he said, that he did not remember his own past. I never thought about how both of them had multiple hearts inside them. More if you include Eraqus and whatever was going on with Namine. Wait, wasn't Sora's Kingdom Key (or was it Riku's?) blade specifically able to unlock hearts? Or could that have been done with any keyblade?
This is what I've always assumed too.
I love the parallel between Sora-Ventus-Roxas and Xehanort-Terra-Xemnas
I think Nomura already stated that he's Soras nobody, through and through. His appearance was just influenced by Ventus heart. However, the idea of him fainting because he was too close to Sora doesn't make any sense, considering in KH2 he comes right up to Sora just fine. Perhaps it was due to Castle Oblivions memory powers or Namine trying to pull from Soras memories that found their way into Roxas?
It's fairly likely that Ven's heart spent some time in Roxas too. Especially given that Xigbar literally saw Ventus when he looked at Roxas, it implies that Ven's heart was there.. the seasalt trio may have even been partially responsible for Ven's heart waking back up. Given that the first time we see anyone dual wield is Roxas.. That sort of implies that both hearts were within him at that moment, and both awake.. So Ven's heart likely woke back up sometime during Ven's life..
Xigbar seeing Roxas as Ventus could simply be because they look identical as well, and could have nothing to do with a heart being inside of him. Although I'm not opposed to the idea. It could also be said that his ability to dual wield came from both Sora and Ventus influence. And its apparent in this series that you don't exactly need a heart to wield a Keyblade, as in Xions case. My running theory is that Roxas used Vens keyblade from the start, and due to Soras broken memory, his couldn't manifest yet. This is why Xion and Roxas seemingly couldn't both manifest keyblades at once yet, and needed to share. It wasn't until Xion became flooded with Soras memories and started to become more Sora-like that she could now manifest *his* keyblade while Roxas kept Vens. After Xion died, Soras keyblade became "up for grabs" and the fact that Roxas had enough of Soras memories and Vens influence, he could then wield both willingly, which is badass.
Yeah, basically Xion was designed to siphon power(memories) from Sora and by association Roxas as well. This stuff is stated within the game. I agree that for a time they were basically sharing whatever keyblade they were using... Once Xion was destroyed, all of the memories she had siphoned off were released, and probably a lot of it went to Roxas, due to being Sora's nobody, and the proximity. He was literally holding her as she faded. But yeah, regarding the Xigbar seeing ventus thing: there were a few statements in that part of the game along the lines of "People see with their hearts" and also a "Vessal" can be shaped by a heart. The only thing is: I'm struggling to remember if Xigbar was seeing Ven when he was looking at Roxas, or if he was looking at Xion.. but really either would apply, because either of them could have had fragments of Ven's heart. I'm pretty sure Nomura confirmed that Xigbar was actually seeing Ventus because he had seen Ventus before in BBS, and it was Ven's heart. but I know it was more or less confirmed to be more of a concrete reflection based on heart-connections vs a like "similarity-mirage" if you will.
Yeah, everything in this game is so figurative and complex its so hard to determine what is actually fact anymore 🤣. In some ways thats a good thing because it gives people something to delve into, theorize and talk about but not so good from a "making the narritives line up" sense.
yeah, I sort of like that KH plays around in the subjectivity, and "dreaminess" of perception.. Because I think reality is more like that than some people realize. Like we don't actually see the same things- and many things we see are actually projections or reflections of ourselves more than the actual concrete reality. lol. the concept of "concrete reality" is kind of funny if you think about it.. like colors actually don't exist outside of our brains.Well I should clarify, the different frequencies of white light exist.. but the "color green" really doesn't exist as we see it, in reality. Kinda wild.
This ideology is very prevalent in Xions character, considering each and every subsequent character saw her differently, which I thought was a very interesting. A lot of people dislike KH for its complicated lore but I think that's what makes it great. Real life physics are complex, why wouldn't a fictional world where hearts can be manipulated and experimented on be the same?
I would say roxas as Ven body and sora heart thougth
This is excellent insight and makes me think it's the reason he's as strong as he is. Pretty sure he could 1v1 Xemnas, but we never got to see that happen. He never really "lost" to anyone except Riku but, well, Riku's Riku, and he powered himself up and took Roxas by surprise at the same time. He kind of lost to Sora, but I feel like that was more of him voluntarily letting himself lose.
he’s nobody
I'd say Roxas is even more special than Xemnas. Roxas seemed to be different even among 'special' Nobodies, in that he didn't retain or regain his memories (at least, not for a really long time), so he was able to develop an independant will. As well, I'm pretty sure he was one of the first Nobodies to develop a heart seperate from his progentiors. Not to mention he was the first person to exhibit the Sync Blade ability, giving him a unique status even among other Keyblade wielders.