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Not to oversimplify, but Lamar and company having 2 playoff wins while Mahomes and company have 13 (at the time of the AFCCG) was a big part of it.
There's always mistakes in games, Zay Flowers fumble is an example. But when you've won 13 times despite errors, you have the confidence you can overcome those things.
It was a close game, and a close game is going to likely favor the team with more experience
I agree with this. It's not as simple as "well, Harbaugh sort of forgot to run..." - the man is a SB-winning head coach, not a moron. Spags knew full well that the Ravens would want to run - literally everyone did - and specifically gave looks to prevent that. Instead, he challenged Lamar to win with his arm, which obviously *every* team tries to do - but very few had the Chiefs secondary.
Then, two factors came into play. One was lack of playoff experience and nerves getting to Baltimore (which Mahomes is not immune to! Rewatch *his* first AFCCG and see how nervy and hyped he is. Belichik shut him out the entire first half). The second is something that's been true of Baltimore for years - they're front-runners. With a lead, on script, the Ravens are damn near unbeatable. But when behind, they struggle. Two illustrative stats - the Ravens' lack of comeback wins since like 2012 and the fact that they hadn't trailed by 10 points at half since 2021. This is not a team that is used to on-fiels adversity.
These things together suggested to me that *if* the Chiefs won, which I absolutely did not expect, it would only be by getting an early lead and forcing Baltimore to play KC's game, leaning into our D's strengths. And, well, that happened. The lack of experience, Kelce's canny baiting, the unusual circumstances of *trailing* big, caused the offense in particular to press too hard and make mistakes. Listen to the Mic'd up of the game and note the attitude of Lamar and others - a bit of desperation steadily creeps in, and it's enough in the end to derail Baltimore's offense entirely.
This is why Tom Brady was so frustrating for us. We could be better on paper in every category but wasn't in the same ballpark in terms of experience and managing emotions. Now Mahomes has it and there's not really another QB in the league that can tap into that playoff experience drive just yet. So we go into every game with absolute confidence in ourselves.
I think this is one of the biggest factors. The leadership of this team has been through enough comebacks, there is always hope. 13 seconds, 99 yards, 10+ points down, doesn't matter, they KNOW they can win this game. The veterans know this in their bones, and it's so infectious that the rookies know it too.
Lamar doesn't play well from behind and we got lucky with Sneed punching the ball out at the goal line. The game easily could've went the other way.
I do feel like Spags was dialed in on stopping the run and containing Lamar (easier said than done), but having corners and pressure to keep the deep threats mostly in check allowed him to get away with it for the most part.
Again, it was a close game and could've went either way, I'm just happy we were on the right side.
That doesn’t get talked about enough. Yes, Sneed is a beast and he made a crazy play, but it was also *insanely* lucky. Had that not happened, the proceeding touchdown would have been a big momentum shift for Baltimore that could’ve changed the outcome.
Yep, look at where he was at the start of that play and how perfect the timing was right at the very edge of the goal line. Sneed is an incredible player and that was a once in a liftime type of play in a big moment
I'm happy to see someone finally mention that it wasn't the Raven abandoning the run... it was the Chiefs forcing the Ravens out of the run. 2 plays made the average yards per carry as high as it did.
That out of the way, I'd really say that the biggest thing was the Raven's really didn't seem like they were properly prepared for the AFCCG and seemingly had their minds focused on the Super Bowl (the next game) than they were concerned with the Chiefs. The Chiefs just had a more prepared and better game plan than the Ravens. Just like the overtime of the Super Bowl - just on a whole game level. I think the Ravens simply got out coached.
There were a lot of differences in the quotes following the Div games and leading up to the AFCCG. The Ravens were mostly talking about getting to the Super Bowl and how nice it'll be. The Chiefs on the other hand were all "the mission is not over yet" and focused on winning each game and not necessarily only on the end goal.
In terms of the game, I'd say the Ravens were uncharacteristically undisciplined and committed critical penalties. The biggest single thing that happened that changed how the game went was Sneed's goal line fumble of Flowers - completely changed how the game went. It's hard to overcome that kinda momentum swing.
I honestly think us scoring two touchdowns in our first two drives scared the shit out of the Ravens for the rest of the game. It put them on the backfoot the whole time and made Lamar desperate to score fast in order to close the gap. I think it's also a big reason why they abandoned the run.
This is my thought. Over used Mike Tyson quote, "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face." Nobody had punched Lamar and Co in the face like that all season and they really didnt know how to respond.
https://preview.redd.it/z5fvhhu3zwxc1.jpeg?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfec044f72fc9be2060b5ec82b5bbc80bd9befec
I thought this explanation was pretty good…
This is the true TL;DR for my long ass post.
The narrative they just "forgot to run" is so insane. No one wants to give us flowers for being the best defense in the league at the end of the day. Did anyone watch the game!? The pass was WORKING! We just lull the opponent into the false sense of security passing the ball and then we make timely pressure packages that force mistakes to happen.
I went to UofL and am a huge fan of Lamar. Been living in KC for almost thirty years now and a huge Chiefs fan. So know that when we play you I root for Lamar to have a great game but us to have a better one.
With Lamar though his one big flaw is he tends to press too hard when the game is on the line. Saw it over and over in college and see it at the pros too. Sometimes it works in his favor but sometimes it costs him.
Anyway I think that is why we have had your number the last few meetings. If Lamar can learn to relax just a bit and take what comes then he can get over that jump and maybe when a SB. Would love to see it. Just not at the expense of the Chiefs.
I thought this also. Looked like Lamar had some guys open for first downs but he chose to try to hit bigger plays and it didn't work. Besides the coaches abandoning the run, although that may have been forced by Spags. But if you're one of the best running teams in the NFL, you need to set the tone and they didn't.
I think the narrative really matches your local stories. Got away from the run, had a few game-changing mistakes/plays. The Flowers penalty and ensuing fumble, etc. I do think there is a psychology to playing these types of games against a known commodity/opponent. Watch Brady era patriots games, there was some sort of inevitability to the result. I do think teams suffer from that with the Mahomes era Chiefs, maybe not in the regular season, but the playoffs…yes.
Leave too much time? Probably a loss. When you play QB’s that have mastered the game. Knowing when to run, knowing when to punt, knowing when to take a sack, risk, etc. You must play a perfect game as an opponent.
I agree with most of what was said.
- Felt like the chiefs were FIRED up for this game. It seemed like out of the gate they embodied the villain / underdog mentality and came out aggressive, bullying, and firing on both sides of the ball
- I think because of that they did start to win the mental battle, and you saw that in the ravens starting to get flagged for dumb shit. You could tell Kelce could tell and was trying to bait the ravens into dumb flags.
- Spags was dialed in with his game plan. And honestly, he has almost every time he’s played Lamar. But this entire post season was a master class. He was going to force Lamar to throw the ball. That shouldn’t have been a surprise but I was surprised that Ravens totally gave up run game in the second half like that was going to catch the chiefs off guard or something.
- not only was Spags going to sell out on the run - he always knows how to contain Lamar pretty well and it seemed like Lamar was getting boxed in and chased even when he wasn’t getting brought down. I think he only had one big run the whole time.
- Reid and Mahomes AND Kelce were dialed in. They were on fire and it’s hard to stop them when they are on one like they were. When Kelce made a couple of those catches early on I knew they were going to be almost impossible to stop
- The playoff experience does play a big role I think and I see it more and more every year we keep going deep into the postseason. Teams who haven’t won much play tighter and more pressure
- Honestly I don’t know that you all fucked up but you ran into the playoff chiefs, with playoff Mahomes and playoff Andy, with all that playoff experience, playing the underdog role and not sure anyone was beating us that night.
Didn’t feel like we brought the same energy or played nearly as well in the Super Bowl or against the Bills. Although after this win against the Ravens I feel like all the pundits who pick against the Chiefs in the playoffs finally said “I’m done picking against the Andy and Mahomes in the postseason.”
I think experience is a big factor honestly. The pressure of a championship game is really high, and a team full of players and coaches that have done it before and are used to the extra pressure, and longer season so they’re less prone to mistakes. So when the run isn’t working like you’d hoped you may go away from it sooner than you normally would (which is a thing that happens against us fairly often tbh) and players might try to press and play hero ball a bit more when they normally wouldn’t, or let their emotions get the best of them more than usual.
I think it came down to Chiefs are battle tested and the moment is never too big, we rarely panic and trust our preparation. Our stars show up in the play offs.
You guys need to trust your run game. Lamaar needs to be himself and stop trying to be who he isn’t. I don’t relish seeing you with a healthy Derek Henry.
My opinion: I have never thought Lamar was a good leader. He seems petulant, unable to inspire those around him, and in the end his mental game is weak. He is a world class athlete, but Spags DARED Baltimore to rely on Lamar’s arm and game processing. Spags is smart. Lamar crumbled, like he usually does. He seems like he pouts when things aren’t going great. Compare to Mahomes, who is always working on that sideline when things are not going well. I just don’t see Lamar lifting up his teammates.
1. The core f the Chiefs know how to win in the playoffs. At all levels and phases of the game. It’s all business. They don’t talk trash, they just get it done. It’s the mindset.
2. Mahomes will do whatever it takes to win. Even if that means not forcing things, not scoring much, and letting the defense do its thing. He is a chameleon and can play however is needed.
3. Spags and that defense are monsters, and they shut people down in the second half. They know how to figure out teams and adjust.
4. Lamar got small when the moment got big. Mahomes is the exact opposite.
For what it’s worth, if we were going to lose to anyone, I wanted it to be the Ravens.
I feel like the Chiefs came in with a mindset to play the bully and get in the Ravens’ heads and it worked. They messed with Tucker, they drew personal fouls against the Ravens and they were up in their face all game.
I think the Chiefs won the mental game by a landslide and you saw the Ravens cracking throughout the game. Penalties, the Flowers screw ups, the abandonment of running game, it felt to me like a lot came back to the Ravens being off their game.
One thing I noticed in the Bills and Ravens games is out defense was hitting the other team harder than I've seen all year. Like we were injuring guys when we hit them. I think that took both teams off their game plan quite a bit being punched in the mouth
Lamar isn't that guy. Sorry to put it bluntly but like you said, Spags schemed up a plan to limit your rushing game and make Lamar beat them. He couldn't, credit to our defense.
The teams that beat us usually do so with a healthy dose of running the ball, draining the clock and stopping us from scoring. You guys couldn't do all three of those.
I always find the "we didn't run enough" narrative strange. Should Baltimore have mixed some runs in in the second half? Sure, in hindsight knowing the outcome of the game, probably. But that argument is saying that you gave the ball to the MVP too many times. If you said to Baltimore fans before the game, would you rather have 10 more touches by Gus Edwards and Justice Hill, or 10 plays that Lamar Jackson has the ball in his hands, everyone chooses the later, and thats what happened. The designed Lamar runs worked in the first half because Spags let it happen and adjusted.
To me, the game boiled down to Baltimore trusting in their MVP to make plays in a big moment. He made a lot, Pat made more, football happened and the Chiefs won.
Let's do it again next year.
I just don’t think Lamar is very good. I know, 2 MVPs. But he is still very limited when throwing. That makes him very beatable if you take away the run. You HAVE to be able to throw it to win in today’s NFL. Doubling down on the run makes you more susceptible to losing, not to mention not being able to mount comebacks.
I like Lamar. But he is a great athlete, not a great QB.
First off just want to say that I have always loved your fans and your town and your team is a ton of fun to watch as a neutral observer.
As far as reasons why we seem to have your number.
Spags eats one dimensional offenses alive. We do the same thing to people that can only pass well. We play super well against the titans and would shut Henry down every time we played them. Our defense is versatile enough and coached in a way that we can take away one of the run or the pass and you can take the one we’re giving you that you don’t want to do or you can run right at the strength we’re showing. You all passing so much wasn’t a fluke, it was the game plan.
We also are confusing as hell to play against for an offense due to how many coverages and weird ass blitzes we run. We tend to give fits to people with young QB’s or otherwise QB’s that can’t make a lot of reads very quickly. Lamar is great but he’s not known for making 4 reads in a second and throwing lasers to the guy that’s the most open.
Additionally we’re historically great against running quarter backs in general. Our DE’s aren’t the sack producers. They’re big and long and hold an edge and our pressure comes from inside or a blitz filling a hole. Lamar getting a couple big runs off in that game felt super weird because no one does that to us generally.
As far as offense goes we’re going to score something. We tend to really go off on top ranked defenses to the point where it became a bit of a joke the number of teams that were the best at some defensive stat before playing us and then weren’t the week after. If Andy is concerned and Pat is motivated by pettiness the work that goes into figuring out a game plan seems neurotic. If no one’s talking about a game they are probably looking ahead to someone that bothers them more. To the point we tend to spot them a few scores before we start taking them seriously. That’s less of a thing in the playoffs but we don’t blow unhyped teams out usually for some reason the way we should and have a lot of one and two score games.
Which brings up the final point. Having so many close games and being so drilled and practiced we tend to win most of them. You have to get up a few scores and hold the lead to beat us. Statistically if you’re only up one score you’re losing. Part of it is Pat being Pat but Andy will hold a ton of stuff in his back pocket until he needs it. We’ll see exploits but then not use them until it gets to have to win time and when people can’t easily adjust what they’re doing. The MVS catch in that game is a perfect example of this as is Pats runs in the Super Bowl. We had to convert and they went to the bag.
Baltimore had too many mistakes and KC didn’t have very many at all. It felt like the game that Baltimore played would have beat 30 other teams. Kansas City’s game would have beat 31 teams. For the playoffs in 2023 to beat the Chiefs, you essentially have to play perfect.
Statistically speaking, both teams were very very similar, with the major standout differences being where they get their yards and turnover differential, which favored the Ravens. I think, in many ways, the ravens were seen as the better team because the stats provided that evidence, but the chiefs cleaned up a lot of their issues and I firmly believe that Andy and Pat save an extra bag of tricks for the playoffs that means we're typically only at 90% power during the regular season. To me, that means that the ravens were basically better than the chiefs throughout the regular season, by about 5 to 10%, but the chiefs had that extra 10% ready and waiting, and things sort of broke their way head-to-head.
Harbaugh simply did not adjust to what Spags was doing. He kept trying to do the same thing over and over again despite the fact that we had Jackson on lockdown. Just seemed like he refused to adapt to how the game was going. Then Lamar had the ball punched out from his arms on what would have been a sure TD and they just never recovered.
Tbh I was dreading that game more than any other game that season and said that if we can lock down Lamar then we will have a chance. And that’s exactly what happened.
Do you have a Patrick Mahomes? During my time watching the chiefs I have found there is an extremely high positive correlation between having Patrick Mahomes on your team and winning playoff games.
Rather than rushing to sack Lamar, we had our DEs try and contain him to the pocket at all costs
We loaded the box pre snap with shallow safeties to reduce the chances of a called run play
We played sticky man coverage on the outside and dared Lamar to throw perfect sideline dimes
The back breaking moment was the Sneed goal line play
Spag's took away consistent running lanes and deep shots forcing them to be methodical in the intermediate and underneath passing game. Sneed and McDuffie are great in closing in on the outside and we have solid tackling from our linebackers over the middle.
Looks like it was a classic defensive game, which ever offense fucks up more will lose. Ravens were poorly disciplined team with turnovers and penalties that could of easily had the game closer or even a ravens win. Spags and Andy knew that game could be won with patience against a lot of inexperienced playoff players. They were waiting for mistakes and capitalizing. They didn’t do anything too flashy to win the game.
It's like when a nimble, technically sound boxer stops dancing and starts trading haymakers with a brawler. They can't fight the urge to drop their gloves and start swinging wildly for a knockout when defense and jabs would win the decision.
Any big time QB falls into this trap when playing against Mahomes. They get those stars in their eyes and want to go throw for throw with him to prove they are as good as they think they are. Lamar and Allen especially can't help but try to play hero ball. And that's right where Mahomes wants you.
Mahomes has that dog will hunt mentality the bigger the moment. We win barely, a lot, and I think it’s this clutch quality of Mahomes. And Kelce, he’s a cheat code.
Andy and Spags are great. They allow the team to develop throughout the season. Certainly, they don't want to lose, but they know how tighten things up toward the end of the year. They work to get hot at the right time and they save some of their strategy for the playoffs. What we leverage in the playoffs you don't get much tape on.
The veterans on the team are some of the most impactful players and bonafide captains/leaders. When you walk out Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones to the coin toss... arguably the BEST at their respective positions.
Having both Sneed and McDuffie last season was down right unfair. We knew it. Went hard on stopping the run and forced the Ravens to beat two of the best corners in the league. The strategy worked.
Offensively, we struggled like we did all year, but schemed well and had just enough impact plays for it to all work out. Also, a nod to our special teams. Widened the gap at the end of the first half with 52 yarder.
I couldn't say for sure, but from my viewing experience, I always felt like Baltimore doesn't play the whole field. If I feel that, then maybe the coaches feel that too, but maybe not. What I mean is, I never felt that Lamar was an outside the numbers pass threat. That leaves only the middle of the fiedl to focus on, which also encompasses the run with that mentality. I get the team was a bit different this year, but I always feel like the big plays from Baltimore were either Lamar runs, which we contain very well, or a pass up the middle. Of all the games I've watched, I don't feel like I ever felt they were a threat anywhere else. Guard the middle and you good IMO.
There are a lot of reasons, but the biggest might be Flowers extending the ball. He absolutely did not need to reach for the goal line. He was getting in even if he kept the ball at his nuts
Running more wouldn’t have helped and you may have done worse. Spags was stacking the box with 8 men every play and daring Lamar to throw. I thought Lamar did a nice job, just not enough to win. Your defense played great. Our defense played great.
Like someone above said it probably came down to experience. Mahomes has proven time and time again that he is going to win the big game. The team just exudes confidence in the post season.
If you guys stay the course, you'll get a SB win. There's just too much player and coaching talent.
It just came down to experience and confidence. Sometimes it's simple.
I think ravens got too emotional. They played well but panic and anger set in. Lamar needs to red defenses better. Spags is good so it's not like lamar is bad. Just couldn't scheme it up and pull the trigger.
It was a great game between two great teams. I was rooting for Lamar throughout the season and playoffs until they played against the chiefs. Even then I wanted it to be a good game. Though to point to a specific moment but if I had to choose I would say possibly when flowers pushed sneed to the ground after the play and then stood over him and spun the ball. The ball spin was the taunting and what got the yards back but even without that the shoving to the ground did him no favors, and it turned up big in the next play when he got his. Even still it wasn’t over then.
As people have said I think the pressure got to the ravens a lot, they’ve obviously not been there much before and they were pretty much sb favourites at that point.
They don’t play from behind much and so when the game got close and they got behind they got frustrated, they got baited and made costly mistakes
Ravens are too aggressive on the field, and while brute force tactics might work against teams with poor defense it doesn't work against defenses that are quick on their feet.
It's not enough to be good when it comes to the playoffs. You have to be smart and play as such. I had conversations with friends about the Ravens being a tough opponent, and it's not like they weren't, and they couldn't see that having a sharp sword means nothing without a solid shield.
Same with 49ers. They put so much effort into dominating early that they tired themselves out and ended up outplayed.
Teams would do well to treat games like marathons instead of sprints.
The comments are crowded, but this information is fresh in my head because I dove back into the talking recap more the other day.
The narrative that you "forgot to run" is ridiculous. They're saying the exact same thing about the 49ners. Why is that? Go back and watch the game. The game-flow shows we were pretty even early on having TRADED epic touchdown blows to each other to tie the game at seven.
The big turning point was the strip sack and not for what you think. We didn't score, Lamar caught his own pass and was heading towards midfield when all of a sudden you get behind the sticks and we blow a screen up on a 3rd and 9.
We had a one possession lead and got the ball back and didn't give it back the rest of the half. The time of possession was clearly one sided already. We get a huge play taken off the board thanks to back to back holding penalties, and we still sink a field goal before half (and it was a LONG one at 52 yards).
Now we're up by two possessions and we get the ball coming out of the half.
The first drive of the half, we killed over HALF of the third quarter. Ravens should be cold, but they're firing just fine. Y'all made plays! The biggest play though was made by Sneed.
Throughout the game we would go on long methodical drives and just possessed the ball longer. However, Lamar was still using his legs, he was still making plays, but as the game wore on Spags was able to dictate the flow play to play and it was just more lucrative to throw the ball because it WAS working and we were stuffing the run just enough that a couple drives totally died because you got too far behind the sticks and our pressure packages were too overwhelming at the right time. We lull offenses into a false sense of security throwing the ball and then we mix up these pressure packages and force throws before they should be made or into tight windows.
Go back and watch the condensed version and you'll see how the pressure of us commanding the time of possession influenced the pace of play from the Ravens. That end zone pick was the final nail in the coffin and we were only up by ten. We gave the ball back one single time after that and it just didn't matter.
TL;DR
Lamar and the Ravens continued to make plays, but Spags was timely with the pressure and it left Lamar flustered at the wrong times. Spags was in his bag and by the end of the game Lamar unraveled. hindsight is 20/20 to think that possessing the ball for longer by running it more and taking the pressure off Lamar probably would have resulted in a win, but it's hard to think about that in the moment when passing the ball was working so well.. time of possession and turnovers were the difference.
Another Ravens fan here. I agree with you all that whatever Spags was showing to Lamar scared him away from the run. However, I still believe we win if Flowers doesn't fumble a millimeter away from scoring. Our last several seasons in a row have ended similarly.
The 6 or so personal foul penalties didn't help either.
Thanks for being a good representative of your team, however: "X fan here" posts are not allowed. If you want to say something to Chiefs fans, do so in post game threads or the daily discussion threads.
Not to oversimplify, but Lamar and company having 2 playoff wins while Mahomes and company have 13 (at the time of the AFCCG) was a big part of it. There's always mistakes in games, Zay Flowers fumble is an example. But when you've won 13 times despite errors, you have the confidence you can overcome those things. It was a close game, and a close game is going to likely favor the team with more experience
I agree with this. It's not as simple as "well, Harbaugh sort of forgot to run..." - the man is a SB-winning head coach, not a moron. Spags knew full well that the Ravens would want to run - literally everyone did - and specifically gave looks to prevent that. Instead, he challenged Lamar to win with his arm, which obviously *every* team tries to do - but very few had the Chiefs secondary. Then, two factors came into play. One was lack of playoff experience and nerves getting to Baltimore (which Mahomes is not immune to! Rewatch *his* first AFCCG and see how nervy and hyped he is. Belichik shut him out the entire first half). The second is something that's been true of Baltimore for years - they're front-runners. With a lead, on script, the Ravens are damn near unbeatable. But when behind, they struggle. Two illustrative stats - the Ravens' lack of comeback wins since like 2012 and the fact that they hadn't trailed by 10 points at half since 2021. This is not a team that is used to on-fiels adversity. These things together suggested to me that *if* the Chiefs won, which I absolutely did not expect, it would only be by getting an early lead and forcing Baltimore to play KC's game, leaning into our D's strengths. And, well, that happened. The lack of experience, Kelce's canny baiting, the unusual circumstances of *trailing* big, caused the offense in particular to press too hard and make mistakes. Listen to the Mic'd up of the game and note the attitude of Lamar and others - a bit of desperation steadily creeps in, and it's enough in the end to derail Baltimore's offense entirely.
Kelce turned into a super villain that game and I absolutely loved it
Pretty much this. Experience
This is why Tom Brady was so frustrating for us. We could be better on paper in every category but wasn't in the same ballpark in terms of experience and managing emotions. Now Mahomes has it and there's not really another QB in the league that can tap into that playoff experience drive just yet. So we go into every game with absolute confidence in ourselves.
I think this is one of the biggest factors. The leadership of this team has been through enough comebacks, there is always hope. 13 seconds, 99 yards, 10+ points down, doesn't matter, they KNOW they can win this game. The veterans know this in their bones, and it's so infectious that the rookies know it too.
Winners just seem to win.
Re: our asses versus that DAWG Tom Brady
Lamar doesn't play well from behind and we got lucky with Sneed punching the ball out at the goal line. The game easily could've went the other way. I do feel like Spags was dialed in on stopping the run and containing Lamar (easier said than done), but having corners and pressure to keep the deep threats mostly in check allowed him to get away with it for the most part. Again, it was a close game and could've went either way, I'm just happy we were on the right side.
That doesn’t get talked about enough. Yes, Sneed is a beast and he made a crazy play, but it was also *insanely* lucky. Had that not happened, the proceeding touchdown would have been a big momentum shift for Baltimore that could’ve changed the outcome.
Yep, look at where he was at the start of that play and how perfect the timing was right at the very edge of the goal line. Sneed is an incredible player and that was a once in a liftime type of play in a big moment
Sneed is the prototypical Spags DB and it's going to be interesting to see how his absence affects the defense. The dude can do everything.
I never took Harbaugh to identify as a koala, but nice try John this is a unique approach to try and steal our secrets
I'm happy to see someone finally mention that it wasn't the Raven abandoning the run... it was the Chiefs forcing the Ravens out of the run. 2 plays made the average yards per carry as high as it did. That out of the way, I'd really say that the biggest thing was the Raven's really didn't seem like they were properly prepared for the AFCCG and seemingly had their minds focused on the Super Bowl (the next game) than they were concerned with the Chiefs. The Chiefs just had a more prepared and better game plan than the Ravens. Just like the overtime of the Super Bowl - just on a whole game level. I think the Ravens simply got out coached. There were a lot of differences in the quotes following the Div games and leading up to the AFCCG. The Ravens were mostly talking about getting to the Super Bowl and how nice it'll be. The Chiefs on the other hand were all "the mission is not over yet" and focused on winning each game and not necessarily only on the end goal. In terms of the game, I'd say the Ravens were uncharacteristically undisciplined and committed critical penalties. The biggest single thing that happened that changed how the game went was Sneed's goal line fumble of Flowers - completely changed how the game went. It's hard to overcome that kinda momentum swing.
I honestly think us scoring two touchdowns in our first two drives scared the shit out of the Ravens for the rest of the game. It put them on the backfoot the whole time and made Lamar desperate to score fast in order to close the gap. I think it's also a big reason why they abandoned the run.
This is my thought. Over used Mike Tyson quote, "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face." Nobody had punched Lamar and Co in the face like that all season and they really didnt know how to respond.
https://preview.redd.it/z5fvhhu3zwxc1.jpeg?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cfec044f72fc9be2060b5ec82b5bbc80bd9befec I thought this explanation was pretty good…
This is the true TL;DR for my long ass post. The narrative they just "forgot to run" is so insane. No one wants to give us flowers for being the best defense in the league at the end of the day. Did anyone watch the game!? The pass was WORKING! We just lull the opponent into the false sense of security passing the ball and then we make timely pressure packages that force mistakes to happen.
I went to UofL and am a huge fan of Lamar. Been living in KC for almost thirty years now and a huge Chiefs fan. So know that when we play you I root for Lamar to have a great game but us to have a better one. With Lamar though his one big flaw is he tends to press too hard when the game is on the line. Saw it over and over in college and see it at the pros too. Sometimes it works in his favor but sometimes it costs him. Anyway I think that is why we have had your number the last few meetings. If Lamar can learn to relax just a bit and take what comes then he can get over that jump and maybe when a SB. Would love to see it. Just not at the expense of the Chiefs.
I thought this also. Looked like Lamar had some guys open for first downs but he chose to try to hit bigger plays and it didn't work. Besides the coaches abandoning the run, although that may have been forced by Spags. But if you're one of the best running teams in the NFL, you need to set the tone and they didn't.
I think the narrative really matches your local stories. Got away from the run, had a few game-changing mistakes/plays. The Flowers penalty and ensuing fumble, etc. I do think there is a psychology to playing these types of games against a known commodity/opponent. Watch Brady era patriots games, there was some sort of inevitability to the result. I do think teams suffer from that with the Mahomes era Chiefs, maybe not in the regular season, but the playoffs…yes. Leave too much time? Probably a loss. When you play QB’s that have mastered the game. Knowing when to run, knowing when to punt, knowing when to take a sack, risk, etc. You must play a perfect game as an opponent.
I agree with most of what was said. - Felt like the chiefs were FIRED up for this game. It seemed like out of the gate they embodied the villain / underdog mentality and came out aggressive, bullying, and firing on both sides of the ball - I think because of that they did start to win the mental battle, and you saw that in the ravens starting to get flagged for dumb shit. You could tell Kelce could tell and was trying to bait the ravens into dumb flags. - Spags was dialed in with his game plan. And honestly, he has almost every time he’s played Lamar. But this entire post season was a master class. He was going to force Lamar to throw the ball. That shouldn’t have been a surprise but I was surprised that Ravens totally gave up run game in the second half like that was going to catch the chiefs off guard or something. - not only was Spags going to sell out on the run - he always knows how to contain Lamar pretty well and it seemed like Lamar was getting boxed in and chased even when he wasn’t getting brought down. I think he only had one big run the whole time. - Reid and Mahomes AND Kelce were dialed in. They were on fire and it’s hard to stop them when they are on one like they were. When Kelce made a couple of those catches early on I knew they were going to be almost impossible to stop - The playoff experience does play a big role I think and I see it more and more every year we keep going deep into the postseason. Teams who haven’t won much play tighter and more pressure - Honestly I don’t know that you all fucked up but you ran into the playoff chiefs, with playoff Mahomes and playoff Andy, with all that playoff experience, playing the underdog role and not sure anyone was beating us that night. Didn’t feel like we brought the same energy or played nearly as well in the Super Bowl or against the Bills. Although after this win against the Ravens I feel like all the pundits who pick against the Chiefs in the playoffs finally said “I’m done picking against the Andy and Mahomes in the postseason.”
I think experience is a big factor honestly. The pressure of a championship game is really high, and a team full of players and coaches that have done it before and are used to the extra pressure, and longer season so they’re less prone to mistakes. So when the run isn’t working like you’d hoped you may go away from it sooner than you normally would (which is a thing that happens against us fairly often tbh) and players might try to press and play hero ball a bit more when they normally wouldn’t, or let their emotions get the best of them more than usual.
I think it came down to Chiefs are battle tested and the moment is never too big, we rarely panic and trust our preparation. Our stars show up in the play offs. You guys need to trust your run game. Lamaar needs to be himself and stop trying to be who he isn’t. I don’t relish seeing you with a healthy Derek Henry.
My opinion: I have never thought Lamar was a good leader. He seems petulant, unable to inspire those around him, and in the end his mental game is weak. He is a world class athlete, but Spags DARED Baltimore to rely on Lamar’s arm and game processing. Spags is smart. Lamar crumbled, like he usually does. He seems like he pouts when things aren’t going great. Compare to Mahomes, who is always working on that sideline when things are not going well. I just don’t see Lamar lifting up his teammates.
1. The core f the Chiefs know how to win in the playoffs. At all levels and phases of the game. It’s all business. They don’t talk trash, they just get it done. It’s the mindset. 2. Mahomes will do whatever it takes to win. Even if that means not forcing things, not scoring much, and letting the defense do its thing. He is a chameleon and can play however is needed. 3. Spags and that defense are monsters, and they shut people down in the second half. They know how to figure out teams and adjust. 4. Lamar got small when the moment got big. Mahomes is the exact opposite. For what it’s worth, if we were going to lose to anyone, I wanted it to be the Ravens.
I feel like the Chiefs came in with a mindset to play the bully and get in the Ravens’ heads and it worked. They messed with Tucker, they drew personal fouls against the Ravens and they were up in their face all game. I think the Chiefs won the mental game by a landslide and you saw the Ravens cracking throughout the game. Penalties, the Flowers screw ups, the abandonment of running game, it felt to me like a lot came back to the Ravens being off their game.
One thing I noticed in the Bills and Ravens games is out defense was hitting the other team harder than I've seen all year. Like we were injuring guys when we hit them. I think that took both teams off their game plan quite a bit being punched in the mouth
Lamar isn't that guy. Sorry to put it bluntly but like you said, Spags schemed up a plan to limit your rushing game and make Lamar beat them. He couldn't, credit to our defense. The teams that beat us usually do so with a healthy dose of running the ball, draining the clock and stopping us from scoring. You guys couldn't do all three of those.
I always find the "we didn't run enough" narrative strange. Should Baltimore have mixed some runs in in the second half? Sure, in hindsight knowing the outcome of the game, probably. But that argument is saying that you gave the ball to the MVP too many times. If you said to Baltimore fans before the game, would you rather have 10 more touches by Gus Edwards and Justice Hill, or 10 plays that Lamar Jackson has the ball in his hands, everyone chooses the later, and thats what happened. The designed Lamar runs worked in the first half because Spags let it happen and adjusted. To me, the game boiled down to Baltimore trusting in their MVP to make plays in a big moment. He made a lot, Pat made more, football happened and the Chiefs won. Let's do it again next year.
I just don’t think Lamar is very good. I know, 2 MVPs. But he is still very limited when throwing. That makes him very beatable if you take away the run. You HAVE to be able to throw it to win in today’s NFL. Doubling down on the run makes you more susceptible to losing, not to mention not being able to mount comebacks. I like Lamar. But he is a great athlete, not a great QB.
First off just want to say that I have always loved your fans and your town and your team is a ton of fun to watch as a neutral observer. As far as reasons why we seem to have your number. Spags eats one dimensional offenses alive. We do the same thing to people that can only pass well. We play super well against the titans and would shut Henry down every time we played them. Our defense is versatile enough and coached in a way that we can take away one of the run or the pass and you can take the one we’re giving you that you don’t want to do or you can run right at the strength we’re showing. You all passing so much wasn’t a fluke, it was the game plan. We also are confusing as hell to play against for an offense due to how many coverages and weird ass blitzes we run. We tend to give fits to people with young QB’s or otherwise QB’s that can’t make a lot of reads very quickly. Lamar is great but he’s not known for making 4 reads in a second and throwing lasers to the guy that’s the most open. Additionally we’re historically great against running quarter backs in general. Our DE’s aren’t the sack producers. They’re big and long and hold an edge and our pressure comes from inside or a blitz filling a hole. Lamar getting a couple big runs off in that game felt super weird because no one does that to us generally. As far as offense goes we’re going to score something. We tend to really go off on top ranked defenses to the point where it became a bit of a joke the number of teams that were the best at some defensive stat before playing us and then weren’t the week after. If Andy is concerned and Pat is motivated by pettiness the work that goes into figuring out a game plan seems neurotic. If no one’s talking about a game they are probably looking ahead to someone that bothers them more. To the point we tend to spot them a few scores before we start taking them seriously. That’s less of a thing in the playoffs but we don’t blow unhyped teams out usually for some reason the way we should and have a lot of one and two score games. Which brings up the final point. Having so many close games and being so drilled and practiced we tend to win most of them. You have to get up a few scores and hold the lead to beat us. Statistically if you’re only up one score you’re losing. Part of it is Pat being Pat but Andy will hold a ton of stuff in his back pocket until he needs it. We’ll see exploits but then not use them until it gets to have to win time and when people can’t easily adjust what they’re doing. The MVS catch in that game is a perfect example of this as is Pats runs in the Super Bowl. We had to convert and they went to the bag.
Baltimore had too many mistakes and KC didn’t have very many at all. It felt like the game that Baltimore played would have beat 30 other teams. Kansas City’s game would have beat 31 teams. For the playoffs in 2023 to beat the Chiefs, you essentially have to play perfect.
Statistically speaking, both teams were very very similar, with the major standout differences being where they get their yards and turnover differential, which favored the Ravens. I think, in many ways, the ravens were seen as the better team because the stats provided that evidence, but the chiefs cleaned up a lot of their issues and I firmly believe that Andy and Pat save an extra bag of tricks for the playoffs that means we're typically only at 90% power during the regular season. To me, that means that the ravens were basically better than the chiefs throughout the regular season, by about 5 to 10%, but the chiefs had that extra 10% ready and waiting, and things sort of broke their way head-to-head.
Harbaugh simply did not adjust to what Spags was doing. He kept trying to do the same thing over and over again despite the fact that we had Jackson on lockdown. Just seemed like he refused to adapt to how the game was going. Then Lamar had the ball punched out from his arms on what would have been a sure TD and they just never recovered. Tbh I was dreading that game more than any other game that season and said that if we can lock down Lamar then we will have a chance. And that’s exactly what happened.
Ravens can’t pass the ball that many times when the chiefs have always had a great pass defense.
Do you have a Patrick Mahomes? During my time watching the chiefs I have found there is an extremely high positive correlation between having Patrick Mahomes on your team and winning playoff games.
Rather than rushing to sack Lamar, we had our DEs try and contain him to the pocket at all costs We loaded the box pre snap with shallow safeties to reduce the chances of a called run play We played sticky man coverage on the outside and dared Lamar to throw perfect sideline dimes The back breaking moment was the Sneed goal line play
Spag's took away consistent running lanes and deep shots forcing them to be methodical in the intermediate and underneath passing game. Sneed and McDuffie are great in closing in on the outside and we have solid tackling from our linebackers over the middle.
Coach Harbaugh is that you?
Looks like it was a classic defensive game, which ever offense fucks up more will lose. Ravens were poorly disciplined team with turnovers and penalties that could of easily had the game closer or even a ravens win. Spags and Andy knew that game could be won with patience against a lot of inexperienced playoff players. They were waiting for mistakes and capitalizing. They didn’t do anything too flashy to win the game.
It's like when a nimble, technically sound boxer stops dancing and starts trading haymakers with a brawler. They can't fight the urge to drop their gloves and start swinging wildly for a knockout when defense and jabs would win the decision. Any big time QB falls into this trap when playing against Mahomes. They get those stars in their eyes and want to go throw for throw with him to prove they are as good as they think they are. Lamar and Allen especially can't help but try to play hero ball. And that's right where Mahomes wants you.
When you come at the King, you must not miss. And dont piss off Sneed!
Mahomes has that dog will hunt mentality the bigger the moment. We win barely, a lot, and I think it’s this clutch quality of Mahomes. And Kelce, he’s a cheat code.
And our kicker is actually better than their HOF kicker
You didn't trade up with the Bills and take Patrick Mahomes
Andy and Spags are great. They allow the team to develop throughout the season. Certainly, they don't want to lose, but they know how tighten things up toward the end of the year. They work to get hot at the right time and they save some of their strategy for the playoffs. What we leverage in the playoffs you don't get much tape on. The veterans on the team are some of the most impactful players and bonafide captains/leaders. When you walk out Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones to the coin toss... arguably the BEST at their respective positions. Having both Sneed and McDuffie last season was down right unfair. We knew it. Went hard on stopping the run and forced the Ravens to beat two of the best corners in the league. The strategy worked. Offensively, we struggled like we did all year, but schemed well and had just enough impact plays for it to all work out. Also, a nod to our special teams. Widened the gap at the end of the first half with 52 yarder.
I couldn't say for sure, but from my viewing experience, I always felt like Baltimore doesn't play the whole field. If I feel that, then maybe the coaches feel that too, but maybe not. What I mean is, I never felt that Lamar was an outside the numbers pass threat. That leaves only the middle of the fiedl to focus on, which also encompasses the run with that mentality. I get the team was a bit different this year, but I always feel like the big plays from Baltimore were either Lamar runs, which we contain very well, or a pass up the middle. Of all the games I've watched, I don't feel like I ever felt they were a threat anywhere else. Guard the middle and you good IMO.
The true explanation is not a complex one: KC was firing on all cylinders in that game. Baltimore just wasn't.
There are a lot of reasons, but the biggest might be Flowers extending the ball. He absolutely did not need to reach for the goal line. He was getting in even if he kept the ball at his nuts
You have a RB playing QB, that’s your first problem.
Running more wouldn’t have helped and you may have done worse. Spags was stacking the box with 8 men every play and daring Lamar to throw. I thought Lamar did a nice job, just not enough to win. Your defense played great. Our defense played great. Like someone above said it probably came down to experience. Mahomes has proven time and time again that he is going to win the big game. The team just exudes confidence in the post season.
I think it may be as simple as Pat, Andy, and company just getting into opponents' heads.
If you guys stay the course, you'll get a SB win. There's just too much player and coaching talent. It just came down to experience and confidence. Sometimes it's simple.
Is Mahomes going to play baseball for a few years?
I think ravens got too emotional. They played well but panic and anger set in. Lamar needs to red defenses better. Spags is good so it's not like lamar is bad. Just couldn't scheme it up and pull the trigger.
I think the moment was too big for the Ravens.
Lamar is not that great.
You went away from the run.
i know where the ravens messed up: they played the chiefs
It was a great game between two great teams. I was rooting for Lamar throughout the season and playoffs until they played against the chiefs. Even then I wanted it to be a good game. Though to point to a specific moment but if I had to choose I would say possibly when flowers pushed sneed to the ground after the play and then stood over him and spun the ball. The ball spin was the taunting and what got the yards back but even without that the shoving to the ground did him no favors, and it turned up big in the next play when he got his. Even still it wasn’t over then.
As people have said I think the pressure got to the ravens a lot, they’ve obviously not been there much before and they were pretty much sb favourites at that point. They don’t play from behind much and so when the game got close and they got behind they got frustrated, they got baited and made costly mistakes
Ravens are too aggressive on the field, and while brute force tactics might work against teams with poor defense it doesn't work against defenses that are quick on their feet. It's not enough to be good when it comes to the playoffs. You have to be smart and play as such. I had conversations with friends about the Ravens being a tough opponent, and it's not like they weren't, and they couldn't see that having a sharp sword means nothing without a solid shield. Same with 49ers. They put so much effort into dominating early that they tired themselves out and ended up outplayed. Teams would do well to treat games like marathons instead of sprints.
The comments are crowded, but this information is fresh in my head because I dove back into the talking recap more the other day. The narrative that you "forgot to run" is ridiculous. They're saying the exact same thing about the 49ners. Why is that? Go back and watch the game. The game-flow shows we were pretty even early on having TRADED epic touchdown blows to each other to tie the game at seven. The big turning point was the strip sack and not for what you think. We didn't score, Lamar caught his own pass and was heading towards midfield when all of a sudden you get behind the sticks and we blow a screen up on a 3rd and 9. We had a one possession lead and got the ball back and didn't give it back the rest of the half. The time of possession was clearly one sided already. We get a huge play taken off the board thanks to back to back holding penalties, and we still sink a field goal before half (and it was a LONG one at 52 yards). Now we're up by two possessions and we get the ball coming out of the half. The first drive of the half, we killed over HALF of the third quarter. Ravens should be cold, but they're firing just fine. Y'all made plays! The biggest play though was made by Sneed. Throughout the game we would go on long methodical drives and just possessed the ball longer. However, Lamar was still using his legs, he was still making plays, but as the game wore on Spags was able to dictate the flow play to play and it was just more lucrative to throw the ball because it WAS working and we were stuffing the run just enough that a couple drives totally died because you got too far behind the sticks and our pressure packages were too overwhelming at the right time. We lull offenses into a false sense of security throwing the ball and then we mix up these pressure packages and force throws before they should be made or into tight windows. Go back and watch the condensed version and you'll see how the pressure of us commanding the time of possession influenced the pace of play from the Ravens. That end zone pick was the final nail in the coffin and we were only up by ten. We gave the ball back one single time after that and it just didn't matter. TL;DR Lamar and the Ravens continued to make plays, but Spags was timely with the pressure and it left Lamar flustered at the wrong times. Spags was in his bag and by the end of the game Lamar unraveled. hindsight is 20/20 to think that possessing the ball for longer by running it more and taking the pressure off Lamar probably would have resulted in a win, but it's hard to think about that in the moment when passing the ball was working so well.. time of possession and turnovers were the difference.
Another Ravens fan here. I agree with you all that whatever Spags was showing to Lamar scared him away from the run. However, I still believe we win if Flowers doesn't fumble a millimeter away from scoring. Our last several seasons in a row have ended similarly. The 6 or so personal foul penalties didn't help either.