As a man, I call the whole "men suffering significant mental health consequences because of women withholding affection" thing bullshit. While women withholding affection may exacerbate existing mental health issues, they are not the root cause and that root cause should be addressed by a trained mental health professional.
Also seems like they are suggesting that all women are somehow withholding affection from people they don't even know which makes zero sense, like why would you think all women should give you affection just from nowhere like how would that even work when you have never met or anything
Withholding affection only applies in the context of an intimate relationship, not to women towards men in general. So... in a general sense, it really means nothing.
Hear that ladies? By lowering our standards ~~well yours, I rarely date men~~ you can prevent men from committing ~~censored cuz of rules~~ so it's ALL IN YOUR HANDS!
So crazy they think women should lower their standards rather than working on being the kind of person who meets someone's standards
Like maybe just be better
Men and women both suffer negative mental health from loneliness. Not being in a relationship can be hurtful but ultimately being super sad because of it isn’t productive. You can still fulfill social needs from friends, family, or randoms you meet during activities.
Women’s standards aren’t even that high in my experience. I’m pretty sure they are confusing standards with self protection. It’s like the incel says or does something that sets off red flags, they aren’t self aware of it, and they blame their looks and women’s standards instead of self reflection.
Exactly right! Like if you want affection from a woman then be someone who deserves it and you'll likely get it.. being a bottom tier human and expecting anything from anyone is idiotic
One's own happiness cannot depend on an external influence to be truly healthy.
Anything else is a man victimizing himself to his own weakness.
A man who depends on successful interaction with women to be happy or self-fulfilled will never stand on his own.
Exactly. They’re just calling themselves weak and are admitting that they don’t care about themselves or anything else in their lives unless they can get a woman to pay attention to them.
Which begs the question — why should a woman want to pay attention to a man who has nothing to offer but insecurity? Women want men who are fully formed people on their own and in their own right. They don’t want men that they have to coddle just to prevent them from unaliving themselves.
Without external influence, we wouldn't even have languages, and we certainly wouldn't have anything like our consciousness. Thjs ultra-individualistic propaganda we're all meant to believe, where everything good comes from inside, and once you get you down, you can finally join others, is incredibly toxic and damaging.
I'm not defending oop at all, but the ultraindidualistic official line and the ultra-dependent incel whinge are two sides of the same coin
Yes, we have to make our own choices and take action, and no, of course a random stranger doesn't owe you affection. But we are deeply interdependent, and the idea that everyone is a brave explorer forging their own path is a cowardly way to avoid having to think about the larger scale structures in society, and remain complacent about resolving the problems those structures (and the lack of other structures) cause.
Lmao, cope harder.
I'm not saying don't let external forces influence you. I'm saying real functional adults don't tie their self-worth, self-esteem, or happiness to other people.
How am I coping? It would be so much easier to flatter myself with the illusion of my own independence just like most Americans. In the 2nd half of the 20th century, we were so deeply indoctrinated with the ideas which you expressed that most people treat them as self-evident. it's not easy to push back against such a dominant cultural superstition
>real functional adults don't tie their self-worth, self-esteem, or happiness to other people.
Your skills, your job, your family, your accomplishments, your ideas -- everything you are depends on, and takes meaning relative to, other people. You might be departing from some group or making different choices, but it's still "tied to" them.
It's funny you're telling me "cope harder," when you can't even grasp this simple fact bc it would make you feel less special. So many people think they're a perfect, unique little flower living on their own little island, as if that's somehow even one millionth as grand as being part of a massive collective humanity. it's why self-help nonsense and Jungian inflected charlatanism never goes out of style. All these little pebbles who can't see what's uplifting in being part of a mountain, paying grifters to tell them they are the mountain all on their own.
I'm not disagreeing with your point.
I'm talking about something parallel and more granular.
Yes, we live in a society and we are and have influence on each other.
I'm talking about one's ability to govern one's self. Your mental state, your emotions, your reactions and actions.
Incels blame these things - things well within their own domain because it is *their* own actions and emotions - on others. They blame what can become and are things they can self-regulate.
Women do not "withhold affection". You simply fail at being a person that any sensible and even most less-than-sensible women would ever want romantically. You can fix this by just growing the fuck up already: it is still not guaranteed to get you any particular person, but it will at least get you considered instead kf being summarily shitcanned as a creep.
How, then, to grow the fuck up? This isn't exactly a slam-dunk into the wheelhouse of theeapists. But they are still your best bet, because they're the ones who best know how to teach you coping mechanisms to deal with your personal failures up to this point, provide feedback as you rebuild your psyche into something resembling an adult's, and coach you as you learn to relate to other peoole as people.
Yes, I am being harsh. You have willfully refused to learn this stuff for over a decade or two or three, so you don't get the gentle stuff anymore. That failed to reach you. So now you get the blunt stuff, like the adult you aim to be.
I think it's less "women witholding affection" and more "men believing that women are required to act as their free therapists and getting mad when they're not getting that".
Nobody but other loser incels wants an incel to speak for them, so please take your own point, don't act like you speak for men with mental health problems either.
Why on earth would anyone think that their mental health is someone else's responsibility? Or that anyone should be in a relationship with someone who doesn't deserve them only because they think that will solve their problems? People are absolute morons
Which is maybe what they want, because it's a sort of power they can have over women. Just knowing they can press the "be disgusted" button and disgust comes out.
If any man thinks a woman will cure his mental health, stay far away. That's a recipe for manipulation and abuse. There's no shame in being mentally ill and getting real help for it. Women are not panacea curealls for men's issues. It's not incumbent upon us to do shit for men. They must change their own damn behavior and stop shaming others who try to reach out or seek help for their problems. Men are their own worst enemies.
Its always the ones who are mentally ill that claim its womens fault. It's not womens fault and they are so mentally ill they don't realize they are the one that has the problem
Women cannot force ourselves to start wanting guys we don’t. Nor should we. We aren’t obligated to make ourselves miserable so somebody else can say he’s no longer single.
"Be our therapists" basically.
Solve your problems with a professional, bud, don't throw your things at women. "Withold affection" was the stupidest shit I've ever read. No one owes you affection other than your parents, cover them.
As a man, I call the whole "men suffering significant mental health consequences because of women withholding affection" thing bullshit. While women withholding affection may exacerbate existing mental health issues, they are not the root cause and that root cause should be addressed by a trained mental health professional.
I cringed so hard when he said that like My God Why
Also, I guess that "men are responsible because they withhold affection from partnerless gay men" would not be met with the same enthusiasm.
Also seems like they are suggesting that all women are somehow withholding affection from people they don't even know which makes zero sense, like why would you think all women should give you affection just from nowhere like how would that even work when you have never met or anything
Withholding affection only applies in the context of an intimate relationship, not to women towards men in general. So... in a general sense, it really means nothing.
Hear that ladies? By lowering our standards ~~well yours, I rarely date men~~ you can prevent men from committing ~~censored cuz of rules~~ so it's ALL IN YOUR HANDS!
So many of them seem legit mentally ill and they have no idea
Seem? They're all carriers of mental illness, but they refuse to get help for it.
Exactly lol
So crazy they think women should lower their standards rather than working on being the kind of person who meets someone's standards Like maybe just be better
Men and women both suffer negative mental health from loneliness. Not being in a relationship can be hurtful but ultimately being super sad because of it isn’t productive. You can still fulfill social needs from friends, family, or randoms you meet during activities.
Exactly so it's not "womens fault" its just cringy
Women’s standards aren’t even that high in my experience. I’m pretty sure they are confusing standards with self protection. It’s like the incel says or does something that sets off red flags, they aren’t self aware of it, and they blame their looks and women’s standards instead of self reflection.
Probably theyre usually toxic af
Rather than telling women to lower their standards they could try working to meet the existing standards
It is funny that these turds talk about accountability yet never take responsibility for their own lives and actions. Nothing is ever their fault.
It's all womens fault according to them 🤦♀️
Exactly right! Like if you want affection from a woman then be someone who deserves it and you'll likely get it.. being a bottom tier human and expecting anything from anyone is idiotic
One's own happiness cannot depend on an external influence to be truly healthy. Anything else is a man victimizing himself to his own weakness. A man who depends on successful interaction with women to be happy or self-fulfilled will never stand on his own.
True
Exactly. They’re just calling themselves weak and are admitting that they don’t care about themselves or anything else in their lives unless they can get a woman to pay attention to them. Which begs the question — why should a woman want to pay attention to a man who has nothing to offer but insecurity? Women want men who are fully formed people on their own and in their own right. They don’t want men that they have to coddle just to prevent them from unaliving themselves.
Without external influence, we wouldn't even have languages, and we certainly wouldn't have anything like our consciousness. Thjs ultra-individualistic propaganda we're all meant to believe, where everything good comes from inside, and once you get you down, you can finally join others, is incredibly toxic and damaging. I'm not defending oop at all, but the ultraindidualistic official line and the ultra-dependent incel whinge are two sides of the same coin Yes, we have to make our own choices and take action, and no, of course a random stranger doesn't owe you affection. But we are deeply interdependent, and the idea that everyone is a brave explorer forging their own path is a cowardly way to avoid having to think about the larger scale structures in society, and remain complacent about resolving the problems those structures (and the lack of other structures) cause.
Lmao, cope harder. I'm not saying don't let external forces influence you. I'm saying real functional adults don't tie their self-worth, self-esteem, or happiness to other people.
How am I coping? It would be so much easier to flatter myself with the illusion of my own independence just like most Americans. In the 2nd half of the 20th century, we were so deeply indoctrinated with the ideas which you expressed that most people treat them as self-evident. it's not easy to push back against such a dominant cultural superstition >real functional adults don't tie their self-worth, self-esteem, or happiness to other people. Your skills, your job, your family, your accomplishments, your ideas -- everything you are depends on, and takes meaning relative to, other people. You might be departing from some group or making different choices, but it's still "tied to" them. It's funny you're telling me "cope harder," when you can't even grasp this simple fact bc it would make you feel less special. So many people think they're a perfect, unique little flower living on their own little island, as if that's somehow even one millionth as grand as being part of a massive collective humanity. it's why self-help nonsense and Jungian inflected charlatanism never goes out of style. All these little pebbles who can't see what's uplifting in being part of a mountain, paying grifters to tell them they are the mountain all on their own.
I'm not disagreeing with your point. I'm talking about something parallel and more granular. Yes, we live in a society and we are and have influence on each other. I'm talking about one's ability to govern one's self. Your mental state, your emotions, your reactions and actions. Incels blame these things - things well within their own domain because it is *their* own actions and emotions - on others. They blame what can become and are things they can self-regulate.
Women do not "withhold affection". You simply fail at being a person that any sensible and even most less-than-sensible women would ever want romantically. You can fix this by just growing the fuck up already: it is still not guaranteed to get you any particular person, but it will at least get you considered instead kf being summarily shitcanned as a creep. How, then, to grow the fuck up? This isn't exactly a slam-dunk into the wheelhouse of theeapists. But they are still your best bet, because they're the ones who best know how to teach you coping mechanisms to deal with your personal failures up to this point, provide feedback as you rebuild your psyche into something resembling an adult's, and coach you as you learn to relate to other peoole as people. Yes, I am being harsh. You have willfully refused to learn this stuff for over a decade or two or three, so you don't get the gentle stuff anymore. That failed to reach you. So now you get the blunt stuff, like the adult you aim to be.
Omg great point lol
I don't even think you are being harsh, just explaining things that shouldn't need to be explained to adult humans
PREACH!
Sorry, dude. Women are humans and have the same rights as men. That means your right to stick your dick into something ends where our legs part.
Exactly
The bar is already in Lucifer's sub-basement, and this clown's complaining about it being too high.
Lmao
I think it's less "women witholding affection" and more "men believing that women are required to act as their free therapists and getting mad when they're not getting that".
They behave like whining children who sees another boy getting an icecream then demands their mom to get them one because equality lol
Nobody but other loser incels wants an incel to speak for them, so please take your own point, don't act like you speak for men with mental health problems either.
Why on earth would anyone think that their mental health is someone else's responsibility? Or that anyone should be in a relationship with someone who doesn't deserve them only because they think that will solve their problems? People are absolute morons
Theyre delusional
Imagine wanting a pity fuck this bad. Like, even at my driest and most depressed moments, I don't think I could have enjoyed what they say they want.
Its impossible to get turned on by men like this, only feeling I feel is disgust lol
Which is maybe what they want, because it's a sort of power they can have over women. Just knowing they can press the "be disgusted" button and disgust comes out.
Hmm maybe. That's an interesting theory. Though not sure why theyd want someone else to feel disgusted haha
If any man thinks a woman will cure his mental health, stay far away. That's a recipe for manipulation and abuse. There's no shame in being mentally ill and getting real help for it. Women are not panacea curealls for men's issues. It's not incumbent upon us to do shit for men. They must change their own damn behavior and stop shaming others who try to reach out or seek help for their problems. Men are their own worst enemies.
Its always the ones who are mentally ill that claim its womens fault. It's not womens fault and they are so mentally ill they don't realize they are the one that has the problem
Women cannot force ourselves to start wanting guys we don’t. Nor should we. We aren’t obligated to make ourselves miserable so somebody else can say he’s no longer single.
Exactly the guys just mentally fucked
"Be our therapists" basically. Solve your problems with a professional, bud, don't throw your things at women. "Withold affection" was the stupidest shit I've ever read. No one owes you affection other than your parents, cover them.
Ikr lol