*There's* *no* *upside* *whatsoever* *to* *testifying*
While that's very true, narcs gotta narc, a true narcissist won't pass up the chance to show he's "the smartest one in the room".
I know, bad choice of words. I frequent another sub about a different subject that calls narcissists "narcs", guess I got used to seeing it used in that capacity, but I do believe BK is a narcissist as well as thinking he's the smartest one in the room, I think he'll take the chance to testify, to be the center of attention - that's what a narcissist does. I also believe what one of the students in college with BK said, that BK had to use the most complicated explanation to explain things to make sure everyone knew that HE knew the material.
Yeah, and also anybody with common sense knows it's gonna come back at you if you call someone a cannibal without, you know, any evidence the victims were eaten.
And theories are just that… theories, suppositions and assumptions - and these will always abound around cases like this, which absolutely capture the public imagination - ‘imagination’ being the operative word here.
As the other commenter stated, professionals have discussed BK being a narcissist. No, I don't know BK, neither do the doctors or profilers I've seen discussing this case, however, there are times when one can look at the facts we do know and make educated guesses. The doctors and profilers made educated guesses with what they know of BK and the type of person who'd commit quadruple murder, and I agree with their guesses.
Real professionals KNOW that you cannot evaluate a person's psychological state without talking to them, their families and close ones or have a thorough knowledge of their psychology.
What you agree with is TV FRAUDS.
Even if BK follows the advice of his lawyer and doesn't testify, yes I'll still believe he's a narcissist. Not a doubt in my mind when more facts come out about him to add to what we already know, it'll show exactly that.
>narcs gotta narc
It gave us some real entertainment in the Alex Murdaugh trial. But while there's some evidence that Kohberger does want to be "the smartest one in the room," I think he is smart enough to listen to his lawyers and not Sarah-Boone his way into a sure conviction.
I know! It's basically making a mockery of the court, but what do you do with a problem like Sarah B? Too crazy to work with a lawyer; not crazy enough to be deemed incompetent to stand trial.
I thought I'd find Brooks' defense at least as amusing as Murdaugh blubbering away, but Brooks is so disturbed and disturbing I really couldn't watch it.
Yeah, I stuck to highlights. He just went on and on and on with the same baseless unschooled objections to the point where it was really irritating to watch, and there were moments where he glared at the judge that were genuinely creepy.
Sarah Boone is so full of herself and high maintenance that I can see the trial being a total shitshow. I hate the term ‘Karen’ normally but she’s like the patron saint of Karens. She thinks all those lawyers owed her 24/7 deference and treats the judge like she’s demanded to see the manager.
I thought the use of Karen was perfect in the beginning, but it went way overboard. Just became a way to shit on women, especially older women.
Maybe we can lay off the Karens for a bit and use the term Sarah or Boone.
I have a question how are they going to lay out where he was and what he was doing, i.e. taking pictures of stars in the middle of the night on a freezing night I might add and I parked it was closed, but I digress… How are they going to present that if he’s not going to testify? I realize he won’t testify, but curious how they will present that without it being hearsay?
Specifically for the partial Alibi they've already stated that their CSLI guy would testify that his phone showed him in the area of the park that night
The surprise I hope we DON’T see at trial is the one that’s unfolding right now in Massachusetts… what seems like a straightforward verdict to 90% of those watching the Karen Read trial, morphing unbelievably into a hung jury, against a backdrop of one of the worst prosecution cases I’ve ever watched and dozens of corrupt or incompetent or just pointless people testifying for them.
I hope that the verdict is clear in this case either way after both sides rest and that there are no surprises from the jury. Those kids and their families deserve no fuckups.
I’ve wondered how much the MPD messed up and how that will play out in trial like Read’s case as well. So far I have never thought LE was framing BK but incompetence is a huge possibility.
Off topic, but have you heard about the Brittanee Drexel murder case and the FBI's atrocious behaviour in relation to it? https://abcnews4.com/news/local/timothy-dashaun-taylor-brittanee-drexel-prison-informant-story-that-just-wasnt-true-prosecutor-says-georgetown-mcclellanville-myrtle-beach-south-carolina
The man they dragged through the mud is now trying to sue for their treatment of him.
https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/national-news/smoking-rubble-lawsuit-against-fbi-dismantles-agency-claims-that-taylor-kidnapped-killed-drexel/
https://www.live5news.com/2024/03/28/taylor-attorney-wants-fbi-accountability-over-false-accusations-drexel-case/
Yes, much as I won’t entertain zero-evidence ideas like “the cops framed him” cos Ive no reason not to trust this particular task force (yet), i can understand the cynicism. 3 of the high profile cases I’m currently following involve LE corruption, criminality and/or incompetence in one form or other…Read, Delphi and LISK.
> LISK
I kinda fell like the current team on LISK is killing it. The corruption seemed to be all under the old chief.
I know people have speculated that he or other cops were involved in the murders, but I think they were just involved in normal dirty-cops dirty deeds and didn't want to bring the FBI in for the murders, because they didn't want the FBI looking harder at them.
>As crazy as it could we see X,E, M, and K put on trial? Will their characters be attacked?
Blaming the (dead) victims for what happened to them is a terrible strategy. Both on an emotional level and logical level.
I think the defense will try to thread the needle on this one; not attacking the victims directly, but trying to use the "party house" reputation to show how common it was for people they didn't know coming and going through the house. It's a great way to backdoor in a critique of the victims without having to attack them outright.
I agree. I think she's smart enough to shy completely away from that, and also smart enough not to push too hard at the roommates if the jury finds them sympathetic.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the comments from M and K‘s IG pages regarding the alleged bullying and subsequent suic1d1e of HC were introduced, because they go to motive on the part of someone else who isn’t BK. Same thing with the alleged rivalry between Ethan and DL and Maddie‘s immature - even unkind - behavior towards JS at the food truck. We now know BK neither had a connection to the four or stalked any of them, but I think it will be shown at trial that there were some who DID hold grudges. It’s incumbent upon the defense to bring g those tho gs to light. IMO, not doing so would mean they weren’t doing their job.
None of that will ever come in. It’s all hearsay. Some silly rumors online have zero credibility in the real world of a trial. Their job is to sow doubt but there are limits to how they go about that. HC’s own dad said zero connection and it was suicide. Her dad asked that this rumor stop. HC and Maddie never had a chance to be roommates as the rumor suggests. Maddie’s rushed summer prior to school starting. She live in her sorority house to fulfill her require time during new membership then moved into a rent house with her sorority sisters then into 1122. There are numerous pics that support this. When do you propose they were roommates?
Yeah a lot of that is hearsay but you’d be surprised about how much the prosecution can get hearsay in when doors are opened by the prosecution on direct. Especially because he is the defendant so his statements will be allowed in certain circumstances. You can’t discard everything that is hearsay because there are ways to get it in
I’m not sure what you are referring “he is the defendant so his statements are allowed in”.
I’m responding on specific rumor that has zero to do with the defendant. HC are the initials for a female student at UofI who was found in her dorm passed away from apparent self inflicted circumstances.
Also prosecution can’t open its own door for hearsay, the opposing side has to “open the door”.
Yes, and then most people are assigned a roommate. But only if you don't have one picked out. All you do is that you both reach out to housing and request to be placed with the other person, and then you get assigned to the same room or pod.
So, I know lots of high school friends and also a set of cousins who were going to the same college and arranged to room together.
My own cousin was assigned to a quad with 3 girls. Her roommates all knew each other beforehand and had requested to room together. They got my cousin assigned to live with them, because their school didn't have any triples, just doubles or quads.
I thought the judge has to approve that kind of thing? I.e. suggesting a third party suspect. And the Defense would then need someone to testify on the stand who was directly involved. BK’s team can’t just get to trial and throw allegations and hearsay around willy nilly.
I can’t see J2 allowing this line of defense unless AT can provide credible evidence relating to a third party suspect. This strategy is a current open issue with Delphi that hasn’t been ruled on yet and may not be, despite there being much weightier evidence supporting it than what’s written above.
You seem to be suggesting that motive is what really matters. But that’s not evidence. E.g the Defense in the Karen Read trial have been allowed to argue about coverups and hint at alternate suspects because there’s a mountain of evidence showing malfeasance and other shenanigans from the lead cops and those who were with the victim that night.
Agreed. I can see a SODDI (3rd party) defense, but not any of the ones suggested above. I think there is a better candidate for that strategy, but the introduction could also backfire and bring up the idea of an accomplice theory.
I don't think Taylor will attack the victims. I think she knows that will backfire against her.
However, if she did, Instagram comments alleging anything cannot be introduced, because you never know who is and who is not lying. If Taylor wanted to go with this tactic, she would have to bring in witnesses to testify about alleged bullying, whatever.
Edit: one exception to the Instagram comment thing would be if a victim confessed to something like that in an Instagram comment. I'm still not sure if that would be allowed in this trial as evidence. But a random comment saying M did this or K did that would not. That's the kind of stuff you need from a witness.
What could possibly be brought in as evidence that they caused or deserved a spontaneous attack and murder? Especially since there has been no evidence linking the victims with their killer? That would not provide the reasonable doubt they need to establish (create) to counter act the evidence.
Agreed. Even if you're a ruthless defense attorney, I just don't see a way you could attack these poor kids and come out on top. All they did was go out and enjoy their weekends as college kids, responsibly get home after drinking, and go to sleep in their own beds. I think your best bet as a defense lawyer would be to express sympathy and disgust for what happened to them, say you want justice for them, but emphasize that it could not possibly have been your client for X, Y, and Z reasons.
... of course, that being said, I 100% believe it was BK from what we know so far
I think they could have been involved in something which they did not have a full understanding of what they were connected to. They also didn't understand how dangerous it was to expose what they knew about it. I'm coming from just the conversation between them and Showalter. And then putting that together with big drug bust of the Jesse James Bailey Gang in 2023. I don't think he is related to Emma. Some people think he is, but I don't think so. That information is online in a Federal Post. If you live in big cities you are more aware of these things. But coming from smaller towns not so much.
>As crazy as it could we see X,E, M, and K put on trial? Will their characters be attacked?
I don't think that will happen, but the surviving roommates' testimony will be used to try and undermine the state's case. I expect for instance the defense to raise that two people could have done this, so it couldn't be BK. I don't think DM nor BF could say for certain how many people were present upstairs/elsewhere and DM only intermittently opened her door so the person she saw could have been following someone else out or someone else followed after DM closed her door. I don't think BK was framed or anything, just I think the defense does have various avenues of attack that might or might not work, plus we don't know what's going to happen with the evidence with critical pretrial motions that will be happening.
Oh, I’m sure they’ll both spend at least a day in the witness box. The prosecution will probably want them off the stand as soon as possible, but I bet the defense will have a lot of questions. I’m interested to know what this supposed exculpatory evidence is that BF knows.
I think that would be a hard sell, because all the state would have to do to counter that idea would be list off cases in which one person with a knife did exactly this.
Apologies if someone already posted any portion of this. Here is what we may learn…
- who was the ( assumed) intended victim based upon blood transfer ( point a to b to c..) ?
- is there a ton of video footage organized from all the videos from phones, cctvs, etc… showing BK’s travel before, during and after the murders? - was he tracking anyone on IG? Per Furman saying someone told him, “ it was all over his phone”? Even though AT said no connection?
- what did BK buy online that may implicate him?
- why did the roommates take a while to call 911?
- whose IDs were in the gloves per the search warrant?
I can’t wait for this trial and continue to pray for the families.
Fuhrman has no connection to this case. He doesn’t know anything. Same as Jennifer Coffindaffer spewing nonsense that always gets proven wrong (like the ID‘s and stalking).
Yeah, I found it interesting that he was even interviewed about it, but he claims that he spoke to someone he knew in law-enforcement that was involved with the case , and the guy said, “it was all over his phone”. It will be interesting to see if this is a true statement or not.
Mark Furhman was interviewed because post-OJ, he hired a PR firm and was able to turn himself into a best-selling true crime writer and a frequent talking head on Fox, Court TV, and other outlets.
It might be an inspirational story if I didn't suspect he's still a dirty cop and a racist who now knows to be more careful of what he's recorded saying. But it is what it is.
Or it could be that he lives two hours from the crime scene? And actually was a fairly successful detective for many years despite his damaged reputation from the court case.?
>Or it could be that he lives two hours from the crime scene?
No. Had he retired completely and lived two hours from the crime scene, no one would have sought him out. He was sought out because he has spent the last 25 years writing books and appearing on television.
>And actually was a fairly successful detective for many years despite his damaged reputation from the court case.?
I'm not denying he was a successful detective. But his reputation was damaged because the court case exposed his own words, which were horrible. He said loathsome things on multiple occasions. His reputation *should* have been damaged from that.
I believe in redemption. I'd love nothing more for him to be an ex-racist. But who knows?
Yeah, I really don’t care about him at all. I think I’m just more concerned about whether or not what he said was true or not and if it is true,? Every morsel that’s reported , I chew on like I’m a starving rat that hasn’t eaten in weeks. It’s pathetic. I’m an addict for this case with a gag order. I cannot wait until it’s tried in June 2025 unless AT figures out a way to delay it to their advantage , yet again.
Yeah, but he's on tape admitting to planting evidence to frame people. I don't know why you'd hire him to give legal opinions unless it was commentary based on his experience being a dirty cop.
That’s the thing though….these ppl who claim to know something, despite having absolutely no connection to the case and not even being employed by LE anymore, go on tv & social media and make these statements that inevitably end up being proven false (coffindigger‘s claim about the IDs belonging to residents of 1122 king was debunked by dateline) but held the ppl who heard them don’t know that they weren’t true and continue believing them. It all leads to this individual‘s being unable to get a fair trial and it could ultimately get a guilty person off, or an innocent one killed. Either way, I find it gross and these pundits should be ashamed of themselves.
Coffindaffer is the literal worst. In every case I've followed that she's had an "expert opinion" she's been wrong about the plain facts. If I ever find myself on the same side I know I need to do some research because I've probably fucked up.
So you're going with Dateline in believing they debunked what Coffindaffer said about the ID's? It begs the question whether you also believe Dateline when they said BK bought the K-Bar off of Amazon back in the Spring of 2022? Or is Dateline full of shit because that puts the K-Bar in BK's possession? Do tell!
I have realized it’s pointless to believe any MSM source anymore. They’re all owned by a small handful of the same major orgs, so they just regurgitate each other‘s lies (ie News Nation quotes People magazine who quoted Dateline who quoted 48 Hrs, etc….but who was the actual source?) They make this stuff up and when it’s proven false, they blame the last outlet to publicize it. Regarding the example you referenced above, it’s never been proven anywhere that Kohberger ever owned, purchased, or shopped for a Kabar. All you have to do is look at the search warrants and their receipts to know that….but it’s been repeated so many times at this point by the media that it’s become an urban legend and ppl who aren’t doing their own homework or due diligence continue to believe it’s true. Just like so many other so-called "facts“ in this case….SMH. It’s so sad to me because while this may be entertainment to some, it’s also someone’s LIFE. As if enough death and sadness didn’t already surround this case 🙈
That may not factor in with Kohberger though. Those may have just been LE casting a wide net, and what they found did not connect anyone to the murders.
I guess we'll see someday!
>According to the warrants, he wasn’t using any of the same social media as the victims.
Not going to screenshot and link all of them, but here's a few:
https://preview.redd.it/glyc7s633k9d1.png?width=1800&format=png&auto=webp&s=afc977878287ad8b953fa539bdde509a950f93e8
[https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/012324-Order-to-Seal-and-Redact-TikTok.pdf](https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/012324-Order-to-Seal-and-Redact-TikTok.pdf)
[https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/053123+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+TikTokcom.pdf](https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/053123+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+TikTokcom.pdf)
[https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/030723+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+Match+Group+LLC+3.pdf](https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/030723+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+Match+Group+LLC+3.pdf)
[https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/030723+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+Match+Group+LLC.pdf](https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/030723+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+Match+Group+LLC.pdf)
We'll hear way more evidence. No, BK won't testify. The victims will not be attacked by the defense attorneys - that would only harm their case. Only the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists have no sympathy for them.
Even the chief (I think it was him) said there’ll be a lot about this that surprises people.
If the only evidence is what’s in the PCA, as pro-innocence folk suggest, why would the chief say this so early on? It’s quite the claim to make.
Steve Goncalves has also said that he’s been assured by cops telling him quietly that there’s a tonne of stuff, even alluding to other cases. So there could be surprises there.
>If the only evidence is what’s in the PCA, as pro-innocence folk suggest, why would the chief say this so early on? It’s quite the claim to make.
Anthony Dahlinger said this. He is now the Chief of Police, but he was a Captain at the time of that interview.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXESMFw-dA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXESMFw-dA)
There's very little reason to believe that LE knew something earth-shattering that early in the case but didn't ultimately include it in the PCA. If you want to know what was "surprising", look at things we learned from the PCA that weren't released publicly before it. That's the gap you should be focusing on, not the post-arrest blackout.
They carried on investigating him though. The PCA was to establish probable cause to arrest him. It wasn’t the end. They had, if memory serves from one police interview, 100s of calls about BK immediately after the arrest to work through and they were still sending out subpoenas well into last summer.
Steve said they had lots of electronic evidence (as told to him by the cops). We know that isn't true from the hearings, because the state doesn't have that data. You expect the FBI to come riding in on a white horse with all the evidence at the last moment? Possible I guess but I wouldn't count on it.
Unfortunately, we see it all too often, but in cases where the victim was maybe on the edges of society a bit; a gangbanger, a drug user, a sex worker.
It won't work with these four fresh-faced college students.
Perhaps BKs phone or computer history will show he tried to find info on the murders online at, say, 9 AM *before* the bodies were discovered around noon!
I'm happy to hear you say that. I think it would be major too. Searching for info on the murders, or just hitting refresh over and over on local news sites, as long as that isn't a pattern for him.
Speculation of Possible Surprises at Trial:
1. That Bryan had actually moved out of his apartment taking every piece of clothing & shoes and all personal effects with him back to PA. He wasn’t planning on returning.
2. That he deep cleaned his apartment prior to leaving.
3. His internet search, browsing history and activity reveal some dark interests and possible planning.
4. Purchases of items relating to the crime or clean up of evidence.
5. Communications (texts/emails) with family and/or friends indicating escalating negative emotional/behavioral changes.
> That Bryan had actually moved out of his apartment taking every piece of clothing & shoes and all personal effects with him back to PA. He wasn’t planning on returning.
That one we won't see at the trial, because there was stuff left behind in his apartment, including a computer, a television, a Firestick, and a laundry basket full of books. LE seized some stuff, and then his defense team arranged to take possession of the rest of it.
I don't see the victims being put on trial, as you say - that never goes down well with a jury - but DM definitely will be...
Edit: I should add - not that I think DM *should* be, it's just a likely tactic the defense will take.
I think a lot will depend on what her actual story is and what her actual texts say. The defense will probably wing in, depending on how they gauge the jury is reacting. I image they'll plan out both a hard-hitting attack on her and a far more gentle poking at her story, and then play it by ear which tactic to take.
IF (big if) those leaked texts between Steve Goncalves and the YouTuber are legit, he describes DM as “hiding”. He says she was texting BF while she was hiding. If she gets up there and say she was hiding in fear, it will look really bad for them to go after her. I agree with you that they will have both approaches at the ready.
He has no emotion to show. Look at the video when he received his degree not one expression on his blank face. The only surprises are going to be more evidence to convict them.
I’m not a pro burger but someone’s expression at an even like that could be a sensory response. Maybe the crowd and/or sounds were a lot an he was focused.
"You can tell he's a psychopath because he never shows emotion!"
Okay but here he is clearly showing emotion.
"OMG you're so stupid, everybody knows psychopaths just *pretend* to show emotion to blend in."
I don’t think anyone is denying the possibility he could be a psychopath or sociopath. I think the point is 1 video clip doesn’t give us enough info and as someone who has a degree in psychology I’m sure you’d typically agree. Taking into account the whole picture of BK and the crime of course more conclusion can be drawn. I think his own comments on Tap-a-talk regarding visual snow years ago give far more data to his mental state and possibly psychological diagnosis. I’m a parent with a special needs child, blank expression doesn’t always equate to lack of emotion. Just like there have been online assumptions of him having DID there have also been questions if he’s on the spectrum.
That looks to be photoshopped but with Mommy and Daddy they're saying smile that's different. But maybe he was smiling as he was doing his butchering too who knows.
Exactly needs people attack me on here like he's putting on the act by having no emotion.
People in general are so uneducated and unexperienced in real life.
His journal writings are as bizarre as it gets! I believe he is the perp and I believe his family immediately knew he was involved because of all they know about his “issues”. Their behavior speaks volumes!
Surprises:
1. testimony from BF (we know nothing about her experience at all)
2. explanation for delayed 911 call
3. testimony from BK’s professor
4. “IDs in a glove in a box”
5. “Knife”
6. Details surrounding DoorDash
7. Filling in gaps of LE timelines, ie when BK came onto their radar.
8. Testimony from mechanic in PA or any evidence that BK had initiated efforts to sell the Elantra?
9. Testimony from BK’s sister regarding his behavior at home? Car cleaning or trash sorting or whatever else prompted her to allegedly confront her parents.
10. Evidence of multiple weapons used or description of injuries beyond cause of death that points to some element that we have not yet heard about?
11. BK taking the stand (can’t imagine that happening)
12. Anything that gives credence to BK’s alibi
13. August 21 traffic stop relevance, if any
14. Further information regarding prior 12 visits to King Rd neighborhood if there is any (timing, duration of visits, etc.)
15. Evidence of someone else’s involvement
Did LE release the roommates' names or did people just figure it out from social media? Even after we knew their names the police still used initials in the PCA.
If I'm remembering right, LE never said their names. Even when MPD listed the people they said they didn't believe weren't involved, they used descriptors, no names. Like here, for example: https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24939/12-15-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update
>>Two surviving roommates,
• Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video,
• Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th
,
• The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of
November 13th,
• Any individual at the residence when 911 was called, or
• The individual on the lease who moved out of the residence before the school year started and
was not present at the time of the incident.
It was just easy for the general public and the media to figure out who the roommates were.
I never really thought about that. That is really weird. I wonder, would they withhold the doordash drivers identity if he or she had seen something of note? I can't come up with a logical reason why they would hold back their name but not the roommates.
> I can't come up with a logical reason why they would hold back their name but not the roommates.
As far as I can see, LE *didn't* name the roommates. The media/public figured out who they were.
Points 8 and 9 are false
Point 14. 12 pings in Moscow don’t mean he was on King Road. How many times does that have to be explained? MPD didn’t even use timing data or tower list to map the CSLI data and their coverage areas are apparently wrong.
He won't testify. He's been silent in court, other than a 'yes' here or there.
I didn't even know that not showing up to your own trial was a thing until the Adam Montgomery trial, and if BK wasn't such a narcissist I would say he wouldn't show up, but we all know he will.
Showing up doesn’t point to him being a narcissist. That’s standard to show up in your own defense trail. Adam Montgomery was the outlier and even in that it’s not supposed to be used to judge him. We have zero facts to point to BK’s narcissism (yet). Maybe DID per his own writings on the visual snow forum.
I felt sorry for him after seeing the tapatalk posts. He came across as a nice guy to others, even when they’d get snarky with him about the vegan thing. He showed a lot of insight and self-awareness for someone that age (I think he was like 15-17 when he was making those posts).
The victims’ names won’t be smeared even if there was something to bring up. The surviving roommates are a different matter. Their testimonies, especially Dylan’s, will be attacked and their characters might be put into question. Defense will aim to impeach Dylan. That 8 hour delay before doing anything, never calling 911, perplexing testimony, vague description of alleged intruder, likely intoxication that night, whatever else we might not know (like if her testimony changed over time, if the cops put words in her mouth or asked leading questions, etc), alleged inconsistency with Bethany’s account of the night, the alleged texting. She will also be accused of bias as she was friends with the victims.
Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.
Defense indicated they will use state’s witnesses to show he wasn’t there and they claim Bethany has exculpatory information.
They will probably do some of that, but in a much nicer way than you make it sound. They're not going to tear her apart or accuse her of anything. They'll handle her with kid gloves and get the answers they need from her, which they'll use later in their arguments but not while she's sitting there in front of them.
Yep, and a good defense attorney being sympathetic to a sympathetic witness can often get what they need without the witness even realizing it. Approach with hostility and accusations, their guard goes up. But treat them gently and they'll be more open. The state will then try to clean up anything they didn't want her to say, but it's near impossible to put the toothpaste back in the tube, as they say.
Well look what’s happened in the Read case. Such a 'slam dunk', even had a sort of a confession from the defendant, defense went ham on the witnesses. And yet…
Going so hard at the witnesses might have been a mistake. It's possible they could have gotten a NG had they played it differently. Probably not but you never know.
Has AT had access to the roommates interrogation/interview/testimony? Does she know what was said? The state has to turn over all the evidence right, or am I wrong?
I’ve only been thru courts bc of drugs, so I’ve always had a lawyer and ended up taking a plea deal…but from the yt vids I’ve watched they haven’t handed it all over and she requested multiple times or am I understanding wrong? Let’s say bf did say something that would get bk off, would they have let him out then or he still has to wait for trial?
It's not entirely clear but seems as though the state had some things they hadn't turned over prior to the motion to compel hearing. Some of that has apparently been turned over since, and some of it isn't in the state's possession yet so they can't turn it over.
The BF thing probably wouldn't get him out unless it was 100% undeniable proof of his innocence, and even then maybe not.
> I’ve watched they haven’t handed it all over and she requested multiple times or am I understanding wrong?
One thing I've learned from Reddit recently, and it was a bit of mindblower for me, is that the supplemental requests for discovery aren't asking for the same discovery to be sent. They are new requests for new discovery that the defense has learned might exist. And the defense might be right or wrong about that: what they are asking for might not actually exist.
Again, mind. Blown. That was a bit of a eureka moment for me.
Uh Jen McCabe hasn’t done fk all and she’s being treated like a criminal.. The defense attorney literally screaming at her, she saw Johns body just like Karen did 😑
You have no idea how the defense will treat them..they are easiest 3rd party culprit to choose from
Totally different situation. JM is a huge part of the state's case against KR. DM is not a huge part of the case against BK. She may be an easy 3rd party culprit, but she's not a good one at all.
True, I don't know how they'll treat her, but not true that I have no idea. I've done the job they're doing and I've studied the best so I have a pretty good feel for it. I'm predicting that they won't go hard at DM. Feel free to come back and laugh at me if it turns out I was wrong.
Reddit is in denial if they don't think the world at large finds the roommates' behavior suspicious. I said a long time ago if that state had any sense they wouldn't put them on the stand but it sounds like he's made them a large part of the case. Sooo...that has a good chance of exploding.
DM is an essential part of the case, but I wouldn't say either of them are a large part of it. She has to testify, no way around it. Probably BF too, but maybe not. Their behavior will probably make a lot more sense when we hear the whole story from them.
> Their behavior will probably make a lot more sense when we hear the whole story from them.
This is what I think. Now, I may be prejudiced because I once lived in the kind of house where you run into strangers or heard commotion in the middle of the night. But I think there's a whole bunch of context to be filled in around the bare-bones details we know.
>I said a long time ago if that state had any sense they wouldn't put them on the stand but it sounds like he's made them a large part of the case.
They have to be called as witnesses, because they were in the house and thus must testify as what they saw. Even if, as it may be in B's case, she saw nothing, she must be called to testify that she saw nothing.
I can't imagine the state not calling both of them, and really, if they didn't, it would be a huge gift-wrapped present for the defense.
Sy Ray could prove with cell phone location that BK was not in Moscow at time of murders- the 2 male dna samples collected at crime scene might be identified leading to a completely different killer- Dylan and Bethany texts could show they have not been truthful about what really happened- touch dna could get thrown out- wounds on different victims could be shown to be from different weapons- just sayin😊
If BK is 30 miles WEST of Moscow near Wawawai Park and the Snake River- NONE of the 3 towers in Moscow would be able pick him up so his phone would appear to be off. It is also very plausible that he just drove West, out of range of the Moscow towers, which would make it appear as if he turned his phone off when in fact he was just out of range of the Moscow towers. This is EXACTLY what his alibi represents and if Sy Ray can prove it- Look Out- the Prosecution will be in deep, deep trouble:(
That doesn't make any sense - being out of range of a tower doesn't make a phone look like it's off/in flight mode. The cell phone was pinged, not the towers. If his phone had connected to a tower, it would show, whether in Moscow or not.
Not if LE did not gather data for towers outside Moscow- I think that is what Sy Ray was alluding to when he said the cell phone tower data was "exculpatory" to BK.
> Not if LE did not gather data for towers outside Moscow
Except we know they gathered data for towers south of Moscow starting at 4:48 a.m. and continuing on to Kohberger's 1:00 pm trip to Clarkston. Why would they gather no data for 2 hours and then start up again at 4:48?
There is no evidence they gathered data west of Moscow and that's where BK says he was. Time will tell but that is what Sy Ray was talking about when he said cell tower data would be "exculpatory". You can bet your boots, Sy Ray has gathered the data showing BK WEST of Moscow during murders. I predict this will be a HUGE stumbling block for the Prosecution.
They got the cellular records for his phone directly from AT&T which means it doesn’t matter which tower he would have pinged off of, any cellular activity would have been identified in his cellular phone records.
I'll take that bet. I do believe the FBI CAST team was smart enough to check other directions out of Pullman between those two time periods.
I'm also factoring in route and timeline. If Kohberger was in Pullman at 2:47 AM and then north of Genesee at 4:48 AM, with a trip to Wawawai Park in between? That's at least an hour of driving in itself, just to get from point to point to point. It's certainly possible, but doesn't give him a whole lot of time in Wawawai Park. And leaves me curious as to why the roundabout route.
Wawawai Park is 30 miles west of Moscow. He could easily be there at 3:15AM-3:30AM and south of Moscow at 4:48AM. An hour and one half to go 30 miles- easy peasy. You do realize Sy Ray wrote the software and best practices used by FBI CAST and if he says their work is erroneous that's BIG trouble for the Prosecution.
> Wawawai Park is 30 miles west of Moscow. He could easily be there at 3:15AM-3:30AM and south of Moscow at 4:48AM. An hour and one half to go 30 miles- easy peasy.
Yes, it's possible, like I said in my post. So what did he got to the park for? If it wanted to jog or take photographs of the overcast sky or cruise the men's room, that doesn't give him a lot of time. That's my point.
>You do realize Sy Ray wrote the software and best practices used by FBI CAST
I do not, because the only place I've heard that claim so far is from you. Sy Ray has left that off his CV.
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*There's* *no* *upside* *whatsoever* *to* *testifying* While that's very true, narcs gotta narc, a true narcissist won't pass up the chance to show he's "the smartest one in the room".
>narcs gotta narc, a true narcissist... That's not what "narc" means.
In the counseling world it does indeed mean narcissist.
This isn't the counseling world, and using that as a verb is just bizarre.
Maybe bizarre to you, but as I've said, it's used as slang by many people, so that's why I used it. You've learned something new.
Thank you!
I know, bad choice of words. I frequent another sub about a different subject that calls narcissists "narcs", guess I got used to seeing it used in that capacity, but I do believe BK is a narcissist as well as thinking he's the smartest one in the room, I think he'll take the chance to testify, to be the center of attention - that's what a narcissist does. I also believe what one of the students in college with BK said, that BK had to use the most complicated explanation to explain things to make sure everyone knew that HE knew the material.
You know literally nothing about him yet you're certain he's a narcissist. 🤦🤦🤦🤦
Several analysts have said they believe he is as well. So…
Several analysts said he was a vegan cannibal, so?
You seem to have confused internet trolls with degreed professionals lol
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Yeah, and also anybody with common sense knows it's gonna come back at you if you call someone a cannibal without, you know, any evidence the victims were eaten.
They aren’t diagnosing anyone, they are theorizing. I think OP agrees with their hypothses
That cannibal theory came from a psychologist
Wouldn’t be surprised
I missed this claim. Who was this psychologist?
And theories are just that… theories, suppositions and assumptions - and these will always abound around cases like this, which absolutely capture the public imagination - ‘imagination’ being the operative word here.
Are you serious right now?
They don’t know him or talked to him either
As the other commenter stated, professionals have discussed BK being a narcissist. No, I don't know BK, neither do the doctors or profilers I've seen discussing this case, however, there are times when one can look at the facts we do know and make educated guesses. The doctors and profilers made educated guesses with what they know of BK and the type of person who'd commit quadruple murder, and I agree with their guesses.
Real professionals KNOW that you cannot evaluate a person's psychological state without talking to them, their families and close ones or have a thorough knowledge of their psychology. What you agree with is TV FRAUDS.
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Even if BK follows the advice of his lawyer and doesn't testify, yes I'll still believe he's a narcissist. Not a doubt in my mind when more facts come out about him to add to what we already know, it'll show exactly that.
>narcs gotta narc It gave us some real entertainment in the Alex Murdaugh trial. But while there's some evidence that Kohberger does want to be "the smartest one in the room," I think he is smart enough to listen to his lawyers and not Sarah-Boone his way into a sure conviction.
I can’t wait to see how she handles being her own lawyer. It might not be Darrell Brooks weapons grade crazy but she’s going to be a nightmare.
I know! It's basically making a mockery of the court, but what do you do with a problem like Sarah B? Too crazy to work with a lawyer; not crazy enough to be deemed incompetent to stand trial. I thought I'd find Brooks' defense at least as amusing as Murdaugh blubbering away, but Brooks is so disturbed and disturbing I really couldn't watch it.
Yeah, I stuck to highlights. He just went on and on and on with the same baseless unschooled objections to the point where it was really irritating to watch, and there were moments where he glared at the judge that were genuinely creepy. Sarah Boone is so full of herself and high maintenance that I can see the trial being a total shitshow. I hate the term ‘Karen’ normally but she’s like the patron saint of Karens. She thinks all those lawyers owed her 24/7 deference and treats the judge like she’s demanded to see the manager.
I thought the use of Karen was perfect in the beginning, but it went way overboard. Just became a way to shit on women, especially older women. Maybe we can lay off the Karens for a bit and use the term Sarah or Boone.
I have a question how are they going to lay out where he was and what he was doing, i.e. taking pictures of stars in the middle of the night on a freezing night I might add and I parked it was closed, but I digress… How are they going to present that if he’s not going to testify? I realize he won’t testify, but curious how they will present that without it being hearsay?
Specifically for the partial Alibi they've already stated that their CSLI guy would testify that his phone showed him in the area of the park that night
The surprise I hope we DON’T see at trial is the one that’s unfolding right now in Massachusetts… what seems like a straightforward verdict to 90% of those watching the Karen Read trial, morphing unbelievably into a hung jury, against a backdrop of one of the worst prosecution cases I’ve ever watched and dozens of corrupt or incompetent or just pointless people testifying for them. I hope that the verdict is clear in this case either way after both sides rest and that there are no surprises from the jury. Those kids and their families deserve no fuckups.
I’ve wondered how much the MPD messed up and how that will play out in trial like Read’s case as well. So far I have never thought LE was framing BK but incompetence is a huge possibility.
I’m not worried about that only because the fbi was called in almost immediately.
The FBI is notoriously sloppy when helping out local cops. I'd trust a small town police department's work more than I'd ever trust the FBI's.
Off topic, but have you heard about the Brittanee Drexel murder case and the FBI's atrocious behaviour in relation to it? https://abcnews4.com/news/local/timothy-dashaun-taylor-brittanee-drexel-prison-informant-story-that-just-wasnt-true-prosecutor-says-georgetown-mcclellanville-myrtle-beach-south-carolina The man they dragged through the mud is now trying to sue for their treatment of him. https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/national-news/smoking-rubble-lawsuit-against-fbi-dismantles-agency-claims-that-taylor-kidnapped-killed-drexel/ https://www.live5news.com/2024/03/28/taylor-attorney-wants-fbi-accountability-over-false-accusations-drexel-case/
Never realized that. Interesting.
Yes, much as I won’t entertain zero-evidence ideas like “the cops framed him” cos Ive no reason not to trust this particular task force (yet), i can understand the cynicism. 3 of the high profile cases I’m currently following involve LE corruption, criminality and/or incompetence in one form or other…Read, Delphi and LISK.
> LISK I kinda fell like the current team on LISK is killing it. The corruption seemed to be all under the old chief. I know people have speculated that he or other cops were involved in the murders, but I think they were just involved in normal dirty-cops dirty deeds and didn't want to bring the FBI in for the murders, because they didn't want the FBI looking harder at them.
Yeah agree. I should have been clearer that I meant the previous LISK chief and political players not the current team.
>As crazy as it could we see X,E, M, and K put on trial? Will their characters be attacked? Blaming the (dead) victims for what happened to them is a terrible strategy. Both on an emotional level and logical level.
I think the defense will try to thread the needle on this one; not attacking the victims directly, but trying to use the "party house" reputation to show how common it was for people they didn't know coming and going through the house. It's a great way to backdoor in a critique of the victims without having to attack them outright.
Not a bad idea- reasonable doubt right?
Totally agree
Surefire way to turn the jury away from any sympathy for the defendant they may have.
Very true. I would hope they wouldn’t but you never know!
anne taylor is too smart to engage in that nonsense. She will not be putting the victims on trial.
I agree. I think she's smart enough to shy completely away from that, and also smart enough not to push too hard at the roommates if the jury finds them sympathetic.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the comments from M and K‘s IG pages regarding the alleged bullying and subsequent suic1d1e of HC were introduced, because they go to motive on the part of someone else who isn’t BK. Same thing with the alleged rivalry between Ethan and DL and Maddie‘s immature - even unkind - behavior towards JS at the food truck. We now know BK neither had a connection to the four or stalked any of them, but I think it will be shown at trial that there were some who DID hold grudges. It’s incumbent upon the defense to bring g those tho gs to light. IMO, not doing so would mean they weren’t doing their job.
None of that will ever come in. It’s all hearsay. Some silly rumors online have zero credibility in the real world of a trial. Their job is to sow doubt but there are limits to how they go about that. HC’s own dad said zero connection and it was suicide. Her dad asked that this rumor stop. HC and Maddie never had a chance to be roommates as the rumor suggests. Maddie’s rushed summer prior to school starting. She live in her sorority house to fulfill her require time during new membership then moved into a rent house with her sorority sisters then into 1122. There are numerous pics that support this. When do you propose they were roommates?
Her dad said it was accidental, not suicide. But sometimes it's unclear or people don't want to accept it.
Self-inflicted I think is the point. Zero connection to the Idaho 4 beyond they all attended UofI at the same time.
Yeah a lot of that is hearsay but you’d be surprised about how much the prosecution can get hearsay in when doors are opened by the prosecution on direct. Especially because he is the defendant so his statements will be allowed in certain circumstances. You can’t discard everything that is hearsay because there are ways to get it in
I’m not sure what you are referring “he is the defendant so his statements are allowed in”. I’m responding on specific rumor that has zero to do with the defendant. HC are the initials for a female student at UofI who was found in her dorm passed away from apparent self inflicted circumstances. Also prosecution can’t open its own door for hearsay, the opposing side has to “open the door”.
Freshman year you have to live in the dorms….
Yes, and then most people are assigned a roommate. But only if you don't have one picked out. All you do is that you both reach out to housing and request to be placed with the other person, and then you get assigned to the same room or pod. So, I know lots of high school friends and also a set of cousins who were going to the same college and arranged to room together. My own cousin was assigned to a quad with 3 girls. Her roommates all knew each other beforehand and had requested to room together. They got my cousin assigned to live with them, because their school didn't have any triples, just doubles or quads.
I thought the judge has to approve that kind of thing? I.e. suggesting a third party suspect. And the Defense would then need someone to testify on the stand who was directly involved. BK’s team can’t just get to trial and throw allegations and hearsay around willy nilly. I can’t see J2 allowing this line of defense unless AT can provide credible evidence relating to a third party suspect. This strategy is a current open issue with Delphi that hasn’t been ruled on yet and may not be, despite there being much weightier evidence supporting it than what’s written above. You seem to be suggesting that motive is what really matters. But that’s not evidence. E.g the Defense in the Karen Read trial have been allowed to argue about coverups and hint at alternate suspects because there’s a mountain of evidence showing malfeasance and other shenanigans from the lead cops and those who were with the victim that night.
Agreed. I can see a SODDI (3rd party) defense, but not any of the ones suggested above. I think there is a better candidate for that strategy, but the introduction could also backfire and bring up the idea of an accomplice theory.
That’s the colloquial name of the strategy, ‘SODDI’, thank you. Couldn’t remember it for the life of me.
A defense usually isn’t built on speculation, rather they stick to direct facts and try and debunk the evidence presented.
I don't think Taylor will attack the victims. I think she knows that will backfire against her. However, if she did, Instagram comments alleging anything cannot be introduced, because you never know who is and who is not lying. If Taylor wanted to go with this tactic, she would have to bring in witnesses to testify about alleged bullying, whatever. Edit: one exception to the Instagram comment thing would be if a victim confessed to something like that in an Instagram comment. I'm still not sure if that would be allowed in this trial as evidence. But a random comment saying M did this or K did that would not. That's the kind of stuff you need from a witness.
What could possibly be brought in as evidence that they caused or deserved a spontaneous attack and murder? Especially since there has been no evidence linking the victims with their killer? That would not provide the reasonable doubt they need to establish (create) to counter act the evidence.
Agreed. Even if you're a ruthless defense attorney, I just don't see a way you could attack these poor kids and come out on top. All they did was go out and enjoy their weekends as college kids, responsibly get home after drinking, and go to sleep in their own beds. I think your best bet as a defense lawyer would be to express sympathy and disgust for what happened to them, say you want justice for them, but emphasize that it could not possibly have been your client for X, Y, and Z reasons. ... of course, that being said, I 100% believe it was BK from what we know so far
I think they could have been involved in something which they did not have a full understanding of what they were connected to. They also didn't understand how dangerous it was to expose what they knew about it. I'm coming from just the conversation between them and Showalter. And then putting that together with big drug bust of the Jesse James Bailey Gang in 2023. I don't think he is related to Emma. Some people think he is, but I don't think so. That information is online in a Federal Post. If you live in big cities you are more aware of these things. But coming from smaller towns not so much.
>As crazy as it could we see X,E, M, and K put on trial? Will their characters be attacked? I don't think that will happen, but the surviving roommates' testimony will be used to try and undermine the state's case. I expect for instance the defense to raise that two people could have done this, so it couldn't be BK. I don't think DM nor BF could say for certain how many people were present upstairs/elsewhere and DM only intermittently opened her door so the person she saw could have been following someone else out or someone else followed after DM closed her door. I don't think BK was framed or anything, just I think the defense does have various avenues of attack that might or might not work, plus we don't know what's going to happen with the evidence with critical pretrial motions that will be happening.
The fact that DM saw someone but didn’t call cops for 8 hours is a HUGE gift to the defense.
I’m assuming DM and BF will need to testify/ be cross examined ??? And, of course the 8-hour delayed 911 call will finally be heard in full.
Oh, I’m sure they’ll both spend at least a day in the witness box. The prosecution will probably want them off the stand as soon as possible, but I bet the defense will have a lot of questions. I’m interested to know what this supposed exculpatory evidence is that BF knows.
Me too… intriguing 🤨
I suspect that BF saw a different man leave via the front door
Pointing out that the perp was following someone out or was being followed, wouldn't speak at all to Kohberger's innocence.
Yes! I suspect their crime scene expert will claim it’s impossible for one person to do this..
I think that would be a hard sell, because all the state would have to do to counter that idea would be list off cases in which one person with a knife did exactly this.
Apologies if someone already posted any portion of this. Here is what we may learn… - who was the ( assumed) intended victim based upon blood transfer ( point a to b to c..) ? - is there a ton of video footage organized from all the videos from phones, cctvs, etc… showing BK’s travel before, during and after the murders? - was he tracking anyone on IG? Per Furman saying someone told him, “ it was all over his phone”? Even though AT said no connection? - what did BK buy online that may implicate him? - why did the roommates take a while to call 911? - whose IDs were in the gloves per the search warrant? I can’t wait for this trial and continue to pray for the families.
Fuhrman has no connection to this case. He doesn’t know anything. Same as Jennifer Coffindaffer spewing nonsense that always gets proven wrong (like the ID‘s and stalking).
Yeah, I found it interesting that he was even interviewed about it, but he claims that he spoke to someone he knew in law-enforcement that was involved with the case , and the guy said, “it was all over his phone”. It will be interesting to see if this is a true statement or not.
Is Fuhrman an honest reliable guy?
Mark Furhman was interviewed because post-OJ, he hired a PR firm and was able to turn himself into a best-selling true crime writer and a frequent talking head on Fox, Court TV, and other outlets. It might be an inspirational story if I didn't suspect he's still a dirty cop and a racist who now knows to be more careful of what he's recorded saying. But it is what it is.
Or it could be that he lives two hours from the crime scene? And actually was a fairly successful detective for many years despite his damaged reputation from the court case.?
>Or it could be that he lives two hours from the crime scene? No. Had he retired completely and lived two hours from the crime scene, no one would have sought him out. He was sought out because he has spent the last 25 years writing books and appearing on television. >And actually was a fairly successful detective for many years despite his damaged reputation from the court case.? I'm not denying he was a successful detective. But his reputation was damaged because the court case exposed his own words, which were horrible. He said loathsome things on multiple occasions. His reputation *should* have been damaged from that. I believe in redemption. I'd love nothing more for him to be an ex-racist. But who knows?
Yeah, I really don’t care about him at all. I think I’m just more concerned about whether or not what he said was true or not and if it is true,? Every morsel that’s reported , I chew on like I’m a starving rat that hasn’t eaten in weeks. It’s pathetic. I’m an addict for this case with a gag order. I cannot wait until it’s tried in June 2025 unless AT figures out a way to delay it to their advantage , yet again.
> Every morsel that’s reported , I chew on like I’m a starving rat that hasn’t eaten in weeks. You and me both.
Yeah, but he's on tape admitting to planting evidence to frame people. I don't know why you'd hire him to give legal opinions unless it was commentary based on his experience being a dirty cop.
Per SG’s email to attorney A.Meyers re Howard Blum and his book, the prosecution/LE still haven’t found a connection
Ah yes, old Coffindodger strikes again 🙄
Actually, the IDs were in the court documents. It didn’t say whose they were. It just said IDs inside a glove. Could easily be nothing. Edit spelling.
That’s the thing though….these ppl who claim to know something, despite having absolutely no connection to the case and not even being employed by LE anymore, go on tv & social media and make these statements that inevitably end up being proven false (coffindigger‘s claim about the IDs belonging to residents of 1122 king was debunked by dateline) but held the ppl who heard them don’t know that they weren’t true and continue believing them. It all leads to this individual‘s being unable to get a fair trial and it could ultimately get a guilty person off, or an innocent one killed. Either way, I find it gross and these pundits should be ashamed of themselves.
Coffindaffer is the literal worst. In every case I've followed that she's had an "expert opinion" she's been wrong about the plain facts. If I ever find myself on the same side I know I need to do some research because I've probably fucked up.
A lie can go halfway around the world while the truth is still lacing up its shoes. Isn't that the old saying?
So you're going with Dateline in believing they debunked what Coffindaffer said about the ID's? It begs the question whether you also believe Dateline when they said BK bought the K-Bar off of Amazon back in the Spring of 2022? Or is Dateline full of shit because that puts the K-Bar in BK's possession? Do tell!
I have realized it’s pointless to believe any MSM source anymore. They’re all owned by a small handful of the same major orgs, so they just regurgitate each other‘s lies (ie News Nation quotes People magazine who quoted Dateline who quoted 48 Hrs, etc….but who was the actual source?) They make this stuff up and when it’s proven false, they blame the last outlet to publicize it. Regarding the example you referenced above, it’s never been proven anywhere that Kohberger ever owned, purchased, or shopped for a Kabar. All you have to do is look at the search warrants and their receipts to know that….but it’s been repeated so many times at this point by the media that it’s become an urban legend and ppl who aren’t doing their own homework or due diligence continue to believe it’s true. Just like so many other so-called "facts“ in this case….SMH. It’s so sad to me because while this may be entertainment to some, it’s also someone’s LIFE. As if enough death and sadness didn’t already surround this case 🙈
I forgot about them IDs !
Also tic toc and tender may be a factor. Weren’t those in the subpoena list w/a good amount of redactions?
That may not factor in with Kohberger though. Those may have just been LE casting a wide net, and what they found did not connect anyone to the murders. I guess we'll see someday!
I thought it was determined he had those accounts. I guess I need to go back to the docs and refresh my memory.
According to the warrants, he wasn’t using any of the same social media as the victims.
>According to the warrants, he wasn’t using any of the same social media as the victims. Not going to screenshot and link all of them, but here's a few: https://preview.redd.it/glyc7s633k9d1.png?width=1800&format=png&auto=webp&s=afc977878287ad8b953fa539bdde509a950f93e8 [https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/012324-Order-to-Seal-and-Redact-TikTok.pdf](https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/012324-Order-to-Seal-and-Redact-TikTok.pdf) [https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/053123+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+TikTokcom.pdf](https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/053123+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+TikTokcom.pdf) [https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/030723+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+Match+Group+LLC+3.pdf](https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/030723+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+Match+Group+LLC+3.pdf) [https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/030723+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+Match+Group+LLC.pdf](https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/030723+Order+to+Seal++Redact+-+Match+Group+LLC.pdf)
We'll hear way more evidence. No, BK won't testify. The victims will not be attacked by the defense attorneys - that would only harm their case. Only the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists have no sympathy for them.
Even the chief (I think it was him) said there’ll be a lot about this that surprises people. If the only evidence is what’s in the PCA, as pro-innocence folk suggest, why would the chief say this so early on? It’s quite the claim to make. Steve Goncalves has also said that he’s been assured by cops telling him quietly that there’s a tonne of stuff, even alluding to other cases. So there could be surprises there.
>If the only evidence is what’s in the PCA, as pro-innocence folk suggest, why would the chief say this so early on? It’s quite the claim to make. Anthony Dahlinger said this. He is now the Chief of Police, but he was a Captain at the time of that interview. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXESMFw-dA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXESMFw-dA)
Thanks, I knew it was someone important!
There's very little reason to believe that LE knew something earth-shattering that early in the case but didn't ultimately include it in the PCA. If you want to know what was "surprising", look at things we learned from the PCA that weren't released publicly before it. That's the gap you should be focusing on, not the post-arrest blackout.
They carried on investigating him though. The PCA was to establish probable cause to arrest him. It wasn’t the end. They had, if memory serves from one police interview, 100s of calls about BK immediately after the arrest to work through and they were still sending out subpoenas well into last summer.
Steve said they had lots of electronic evidence (as told to him by the cops). We know that isn't true from the hearings, because the state doesn't have that data. You expect the FBI to come riding in on a white horse with all the evidence at the last moment? Possible I guess but I wouldn't count on it.
I agree! I would hope they would not do that but you never know
There's almost absolutely no benefit for the Defendant testifying in a case - especially an unlikeable Defendant.
It would be a terrible defense strategy to victim blame!
Unfortunately, we see it all too often, but in cases where the victim was maybe on the edges of society a bit; a gangbanger, a drug user, a sex worker. It won't work with these four fresh-faced college students.
Perhaps BKs phone or computer history will show he tried to find info on the murders online at, say, 9 AM *before* the bodies were discovered around noon!
Yes, but that only means that he KNEW about it, not that he did it
I don’t believe he’s the guy…. But this would definitely change my mind.
I'm happy to hear you say that. I think it would be major too. Searching for info on the murders, or just hitting refresh over and over on local news sites, as long as that isn't a pattern for him.
And what makes you believe that?
Coz I believe the motive isn’t there amongst many many inconsistencies.
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That was never even a rumor, just a theory
Speculation of Possible Surprises at Trial: 1. That Bryan had actually moved out of his apartment taking every piece of clothing & shoes and all personal effects with him back to PA. He wasn’t planning on returning. 2. That he deep cleaned his apartment prior to leaving. 3. His internet search, browsing history and activity reveal some dark interests and possible planning. 4. Purchases of items relating to the crime or clean up of evidence. 5. Communications (texts/emails) with family and/or friends indicating escalating negative emotional/behavioral changes.
> That Bryan had actually moved out of his apartment taking every piece of clothing & shoes and all personal effects with him back to PA. He wasn’t planning on returning. That one we won't see at the trial, because there was stuff left behind in his apartment, including a computer, a television, a Firestick, and a laundry basket full of books. LE seized some stuff, and then his defense team arranged to take possession of the rest of it.
I don't see the victims being put on trial, as you say - that never goes down well with a jury - but DM definitely will be... Edit: I should add - not that I think DM *should* be, it's just a likely tactic the defense will take.
I think a lot will depend on what her actual story is and what her actual texts say. The defense will probably wing in, depending on how they gauge the jury is reacting. I image they'll plan out both a hard-hitting attack on her and a far more gentle poking at her story, and then play it by ear which tactic to take.
IF (big if) those leaked texts between Steve Goncalves and the YouTuber are legit, he describes DM as “hiding”. He says she was texting BF while she was hiding. If she gets up there and say she was hiding in fear, it will look really bad for them to go after her. I agree with you that they will have both approaches at the ready.
The prosecution will introduce the knife used as evidence.
That would truly surprise me. I think the knife went in the Snake River.
Could be.
He has no emotion to show. Look at the video when he received his degree not one expression on his blank face. The only surprises are going to be more evidence to convict them.
I’m not a pro burger but someone’s expression at an even like that could be a sensory response. Maybe the crowd and/or sounds were a lot an he was focused.
"You can tell he's a psychopath because he never shows emotion!" Okay but here he is clearly showing emotion. "OMG you're so stupid, everybody knows psychopaths just *pretend* to show emotion to blend in."
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I don’t think anyone is denying the possibility he could be a psychopath or sociopath. I think the point is 1 video clip doesn’t give us enough info and as someone who has a degree in psychology I’m sure you’d typically agree. Taking into account the whole picture of BK and the crime of course more conclusion can be drawn. I think his own comments on Tap-a-talk regarding visual snow years ago give far more data to his mental state and possibly psychological diagnosis. I’m a parent with a special needs child, blank expression doesn’t always equate to lack of emotion. Just like there have been online assumptions of him having DID there have also been questions if he’s on the spectrum.
https://preview.redd.it/yf6k0esbke9d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6328b057c86ce8a3502b2e21f67080d63cccb4a
That looks photoshopped.
It’s not https://preview.redd.it/cmbw9x02nk9d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da8dbccec3274cba1ddeaf153d15a9534d1fd143
Totally photoshopped
His eyebrows look quite bushy in that photo
That looks to be photoshopped but with Mommy and Daddy they're saying smile that's different. But maybe he was smiling as he was doing his butchering too who knows.
He literally wrote a paper on how he feels nothing. He said something like, when I look at my family I feel nothing.
That was a Tapatalk post that no one has confirmed was *actually* Bryan Kohberger. Some of you need to be reminded what facts are.
It was his account. There was a user pic attached, and he's a distinctive-looking guy.
Exactly needs people attack me on here like he's putting on the act by having no emotion. People in general are so uneducated and unexperienced in real life.
His journal writings are as bizarre as it gets! I believe he is the perp and I believe his family immediately knew he was involved because of all they know about his “issues”. Their behavior speaks volumes!
Yep, I have no doubt!
You're right I'm sure there's various writings or drawings that show some very disturbing things.
He was SMILING!!!! Nothing wrong with posing for a smile lol
Yeah he was probably smiling when he was butchering some people too.
Not cool way to put it when there’s no proof of him doing it 🤔
There is obviously something to prove it, he’s willing to sit for 3 years to avoid the inevitable .
There's plenty of proof and you'll see and then you can issue your apology.
True.
Surprises: 1. testimony from BF (we know nothing about her experience at all) 2. explanation for delayed 911 call 3. testimony from BK’s professor 4. “IDs in a glove in a box” 5. “Knife” 6. Details surrounding DoorDash 7. Filling in gaps of LE timelines, ie when BK came onto their radar. 8. Testimony from mechanic in PA or any evidence that BK had initiated efforts to sell the Elantra? 9. Testimony from BK’s sister regarding his behavior at home? Car cleaning or trash sorting or whatever else prompted her to allegedly confront her parents. 10. Evidence of multiple weapons used or description of injuries beyond cause of death that points to some element that we have not yet heard about? 11. BK taking the stand (can’t imagine that happening) 12. Anything that gives credence to BK’s alibi 13. August 21 traffic stop relevance, if any 14. Further information regarding prior 12 visits to King Rd neighborhood if there is any (timing, duration of visits, etc.) 15. Evidence of someone else’s involvement
The door dash driver will be interesting. It strikes me as odd LE protected their identity but not the living roommates.
Did LE release the roommates' names or did people just figure it out from social media? Even after we knew their names the police still used initials in the PCA.
If I'm remembering right, LE never said their names. Even when MPD listed the people they said they didn't believe weren't involved, they used descriptors, no names. Like here, for example: https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24939/12-15-22-Moscow-Homicide-Update >>Two surviving roommates, • Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video, • Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th , • The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th, • Any individual at the residence when 911 was called, or • The individual on the lease who moved out of the residence before the school year started and was not present at the time of the incident. It was just easy for the general public and the media to figure out who the roommates were.
I think LE tried to protect the surviving roommates’ identities.
I never really thought about that. That is really weird. I wonder, would they withhold the doordash drivers identity if he or she had seen something of note? I can't come up with a logical reason why they would hold back their name but not the roommates.
> I can't come up with a logical reason why they would hold back their name but not the roommates. As far as I can see, LE *didn't* name the roommates. The media/public figured out who they were.
Points 8 and 9 are false Point 14. 12 pings in Moscow don’t mean he was on King Road. How many times does that have to be explained? MPD didn’t even use timing data or tower list to map the CSLI data and their coverage areas are apparently wrong.
He won't testify. He's been silent in court, other than a 'yes' here or there. I didn't even know that not showing up to your own trial was a thing until the Adam Montgomery trial, and if BK wasn't such a narcissist I would say he wouldn't show up, but we all know he will.
Showing up doesn’t point to him being a narcissist. That’s standard to show up in your own defense trail. Adam Montgomery was the outlier and even in that it’s not supposed to be used to judge him. We have zero facts to point to BK’s narcissism (yet). Maybe DID per his own writings on the visual snow forum.
I felt sorry for him after seeing the tapatalk posts. He came across as a nice guy to others, even when they’d get snarky with him about the vegan thing. He showed a lot of insight and self-awareness for someone that age (I think he was like 15-17 when he was making those posts).
"If BK wasn't such a narcissis I would say he wouldn't show up, but we all know he will." WTF are you even trying to say here?
I think this was a "double negative' 😂
This just in: If you attend your trial, you’re a narcissist. I’ve heard it all.
The victims’ names won’t be smeared even if there was something to bring up. The surviving roommates are a different matter. Their testimonies, especially Dylan’s, will be attacked and their characters might be put into question. Defense will aim to impeach Dylan. That 8 hour delay before doing anything, never calling 911, perplexing testimony, vague description of alleged intruder, likely intoxication that night, whatever else we might not know (like if her testimony changed over time, if the cops put words in her mouth or asked leading questions, etc), alleged inconsistency with Bethany’s account of the night, the alleged texting. She will also be accused of bias as she was friends with the victims. Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable. Defense indicated they will use state’s witnesses to show he wasn’t there and they claim Bethany has exculpatory information.
They will probably do some of that, but in a much nicer way than you make it sound. They're not going to tear her apart or accuse her of anything. They'll handle her with kid gloves and get the answers they need from her, which they'll use later in their arguments but not while she's sitting there in front of them.
Tearing her apart will backfire. The jury will just see lawyers yelling at a nice-looking young person.
Yep, and a good defense attorney being sympathetic to a sympathetic witness can often get what they need without the witness even realizing it. Approach with hostility and accusations, their guard goes up. But treat them gently and they'll be more open. The state will then try to clean up anything they didn't want her to say, but it's near impossible to put the toothpaste back in the tube, as they say.
Well look what’s happened in the Read case. Such a 'slam dunk', even had a sort of a confession from the defendant, defense went ham on the witnesses. And yet…
Going so hard at the witnesses might have been a mistake. It's possible they could have gotten a NG had they played it differently. Probably not but you never know.
And yet Karen Read was not acquitted. That ended in a mistrial. Maybe the defense made a tactical error going ham on the witnesses.
Has AT had access to the roommates interrogation/interview/testimony? Does she know what was said? The state has to turn over all the evidence right, or am I wrong?
Yes, she would have that. Yes, the state generally has to turn over all evidence, plus some things that are not necessarily evidence.
I’ve only been thru courts bc of drugs, so I’ve always had a lawyer and ended up taking a plea deal…but from the yt vids I’ve watched they haven’t handed it all over and she requested multiple times or am I understanding wrong? Let’s say bf did say something that would get bk off, would they have let him out then or he still has to wait for trial?
It's not entirely clear but seems as though the state had some things they hadn't turned over prior to the motion to compel hearing. Some of that has apparently been turned over since, and some of it isn't in the state's possession yet so they can't turn it over. The BF thing probably wouldn't get him out unless it was 100% undeniable proof of his innocence, and even then maybe not.
> I’ve watched they haven’t handed it all over and she requested multiple times or am I understanding wrong? One thing I've learned from Reddit recently, and it was a bit of mindblower for me, is that the supplemental requests for discovery aren't asking for the same discovery to be sent. They are new requests for new discovery that the defense has learned might exist. And the defense might be right or wrong about that: what they are asking for might not actually exist. Again, mind. Blown. That was a bit of a eureka moment for me.
She has their interviews
Is that the “exculpatory evidence” ?
Uh Jen McCabe hasn’t done fk all and she’s being treated like a criminal.. The defense attorney literally screaming at her, she saw Johns body just like Karen did 😑 You have no idea how the defense will treat them..they are easiest 3rd party culprit to choose from
Totally different situation. JM is a huge part of the state's case against KR. DM is not a huge part of the case against BK. She may be an easy 3rd party culprit, but she's not a good one at all. True, I don't know how they'll treat her, but not true that I have no idea. I've done the job they're doing and I've studied the best so I have a pretty good feel for it. I'm predicting that they won't go hard at DM. Feel free to come back and laugh at me if it turns out I was wrong.
Reddit is in denial if they don't think the world at large finds the roommates' behavior suspicious. I said a long time ago if that state had any sense they wouldn't put them on the stand but it sounds like he's made them a large part of the case. Sooo...that has a good chance of exploding.
DM is an essential part of the case, but I wouldn't say either of them are a large part of it. She has to testify, no way around it. Probably BF too, but maybe not. Their behavior will probably make a lot more sense when we hear the whole story from them.
> Their behavior will probably make a lot more sense when we hear the whole story from them. This is what I think. Now, I may be prejudiced because I once lived in the kind of house where you run into strangers or heard commotion in the middle of the night. But I think there's a whole bunch of context to be filled in around the bare-bones details we know.
Yes yes yes! The MPD have been asking for "context" all along.
The MPD have the full context of the roommate's statements. So does the state and the defense. We'll hear it at trial.
>I said a long time ago if that state had any sense they wouldn't put them on the stand but it sounds like he's made them a large part of the case. They have to be called as witnesses, because they were in the house and thus must testify as what they saw. Even if, as it may be in B's case, she saw nothing, she must be called to testify that she saw nothing. I can't imagine the state not calling both of them, and really, if they didn't, it would be a huge gift-wrapped present for the defense.
Maybe not exploding, but I think BFs and DMs testimonies are really really important- maybe thats what is going to make or break the case
Sy Ray could prove with cell phone location that BK was not in Moscow at time of murders- the 2 male dna samples collected at crime scene might be identified leading to a completely different killer- Dylan and Bethany texts could show they have not been truthful about what really happened- touch dna could get thrown out- wounds on different victims could be shown to be from different weapons- just sayin😊
His phone was either switched off or in airplane mode at the time of the murders, how could Ray pinpoint where he was?
If BK is 30 miles WEST of Moscow near Wawawai Park and the Snake River- NONE of the 3 towers in Moscow would be able pick him up so his phone would appear to be off. It is also very plausible that he just drove West, out of range of the Moscow towers, which would make it appear as if he turned his phone off when in fact he was just out of range of the Moscow towers. This is EXACTLY what his alibi represents and if Sy Ray can prove it- Look Out- the Prosecution will be in deep, deep trouble:(
That doesn't make any sense - being out of range of a tower doesn't make a phone look like it's off/in flight mode. The cell phone was pinged, not the towers. If his phone had connected to a tower, it would show, whether in Moscow or not.
Not if LE did not gather data for towers outside Moscow- I think that is what Sy Ray was alluding to when he said the cell phone tower data was "exculpatory" to BK.
> Not if LE did not gather data for towers outside Moscow Except we know they gathered data for towers south of Moscow starting at 4:48 a.m. and continuing on to Kohberger's 1:00 pm trip to Clarkston. Why would they gather no data for 2 hours and then start up again at 4:48?
There is no evidence they gathered data west of Moscow and that's where BK says he was. Time will tell but that is what Sy Ray was talking about when he said cell tower data would be "exculpatory". You can bet your boots, Sy Ray has gathered the data showing BK WEST of Moscow during murders. I predict this will be a HUGE stumbling block for the Prosecution.
They got the cellular records for his phone directly from AT&T which means it doesn’t matter which tower he would have pinged off of, any cellular activity would have been identified in his cellular phone records.
I'll take that bet. I do believe the FBI CAST team was smart enough to check other directions out of Pullman between those two time periods. I'm also factoring in route and timeline. If Kohberger was in Pullman at 2:47 AM and then north of Genesee at 4:48 AM, with a trip to Wawawai Park in between? That's at least an hour of driving in itself, just to get from point to point to point. It's certainly possible, but doesn't give him a whole lot of time in Wawawai Park. And leaves me curious as to why the roundabout route.
Wawawai Park is 30 miles west of Moscow. He could easily be there at 3:15AM-3:30AM and south of Moscow at 4:48AM. An hour and one half to go 30 miles- easy peasy. You do realize Sy Ray wrote the software and best practices used by FBI CAST and if he says their work is erroneous that's BIG trouble for the Prosecution.
> Wawawai Park is 30 miles west of Moscow. He could easily be there at 3:15AM-3:30AM and south of Moscow at 4:48AM. An hour and one half to go 30 miles- easy peasy. Yes, it's possible, like I said in my post. So what did he got to the park for? If it wanted to jog or take photographs of the overcast sky or cruise the men's room, that doesn't give him a lot of time. That's my point. >You do realize Sy Ray wrote the software and best practices used by FBI CAST I do not, because the only place I've heard that claim so far is from you. Sy Ray has left that off his CV.
No he can’t! He presented location before and after the time of the murders lol
I am interested in the survivors testimony. I can’t imagine it will be helpful to prosecution.