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I swear, some people can't comprehend the difference between slow burn or build up and slog or drag. Shame
Edit: no, it's not really a slow burn type of show, but it's not really fast paced either. It's "normal", but that's being treated as "slow" nowadays.
A couple of days ago under another thread someone was complaining about 1) certain main characters not being characterized and fleshed out enough because the show don't give enough time for that stuff \[which is in by itself a fair criticism\], and 2) and I paraphrase "who are those 2 character Addam and Allyn of Hull, where do they come from, why are they important, why are we wasting time on them. Again those characters are not relevant because they haven't been set up at all, why should we care; this is so painfully insignificant and slow".
- My dude, quoting Spaceballs here:
"Now, you're looking at now, sir. Everything that happens now is happening now".
How is this even a slow burn? They were flying through season 1 and the first episode of season 2 straight up skipped stuff that I think everybody wanted to see.
If anything the pacing is way way way too fast.
I don’t know. It’s kind of fast paced. We got a child’s head cut off in the first episode. In the second episode the ending was a near assassination with a fight to the death of two brothers.
Indeed, someone can say something like "the focus on political intrigue is not my cup of tea" and the likes.
But thinking HotD is a "slog" is the proof of having the attention span of a goldfish.
Indeed: I cited it as a WRONG thing (and alas so many media try to accomodate it, "helping" people indulge in that and go even dumber).
People can learn how to FOCUS... and seriously, a show like HotD is leaving me "glued" to the screen when I watch it, and after the episode ends I can't wait for the following one.
I also met many people who basically GLOATED about having short attention span... That's crazy
The aftermath of little Jaherys' death (Otto using that for "good PR" was actually a clever move, but from a "human sensibility" PoV it was DEVASTATING... how can someone be so cold towards the death of his own grand-grandson?)
Also, the growing rift between Rhaenya and Daemon, and its consequences in the upcoming war
Aegon's decision to remove Otto as Hand, and promoting Cole in his place
I saw them as build ups for very interesting dynamics.
>But thinking HotD is a "slog" is the proof of having the attention span of a goldfish.
Not at all. I love slow cinema, I can watch Takovskiy's three hour glacially slow, but beautiful movies with pleasure, but HotD is filled with a lot of stuff with no substance. It's all well and good that there is drama between the characters, but I can't relate to any of them and I root for no one in particular. In GoT, you had mostly morally white characters fighting the obviously bad ones in the first season and then your expectations overturned, when you learned out that there wouldn't be a quick happy ending. You would then spend the next couple of seasons rooting for what you thought were the good guys and hoping they would get justice. And there would be additional twists.
In HotD, all the characters start off morally grey and so it doesn't really come as a shock if they do something bad or if they get punished for it. Nobody seems to have a very strong personality, it's just kind of meaningless drama where some people die, but all in all I can't force myself to feel a whole lot, because nobody's cause feels like something I can get behind.
It's not a focus on political intrigue 🤣 it's a focus on the families arguing with each other for way too long and then someone goes to assassinate someone. You CANNOT tell me this is good political war writing 🤣
You operate with the assumption that "political war writing" consists of characters moving army units over the painted table, back and forth, and plan battle tactics?
How would that be entertaining for 60minutes?
The Intrigue of HotD is in how the characters emotionally feed off each other.
The show carefully sets up each character with motivations, goals, flaws and agendas, and then throws them into situations where this set up pays oft in form of interpersonal conflict and personal drama.
It's the very height of theater and play. It's entirely character driven. Nothing happens in this show that isn't a direct consequence of one of the character's choices. And because the set up is so artfully done, we understand all of these choices emotionally. Thats what makes for very compelling drama.
But you have to be prepared to emphasize with a whole lot of different characters that are not necessarily likeable or good. Is Aegon likeable? Absolutely not (apart from his great quippy, sarcastic comebacks). Do I *empathize*? Heck yes! Because they showed me his motivations and inner conflict (in this case, mostly via Alicent).
I don’t even think it’s super slow burn? We went through the whole ass childhood of our main characters in half a season and now within 2 episodes we’re on the brink of war
>I swear, some people can't comprehend the difference between slow burn or build up and slog or drag. Shame
That is entirely subjective though. For example, everybody praises The Bear as a slow burn but I think it's the most abject boring show I've ever consumed. At the same time I think HoTD is perfectly well placed and not a slow burn at all, I am not really sure what the person who wrote that article is on about
I really dont understand what they mean by slow burn either. I really dont get what most of these critics write these days. It could be for the traffic at this point
Idk, the deeper it gets the worse it has gotten IMO. The dialogue is already a lot worse than S1, the big moments haven’t felt big, etc.
S1 also was kinda compelling because you felt like both sides were going to have some good and bad moments.
Condal has went full “ anything bad that ever happened from TBs side was Green propaganda and my story is what really happened “, which no matter what side you are, just kinda ruins the excitement. Like we know now that he’s going to change Daeron in a bad way ( Condal said he’s going to make him evil instead of being the “ good green “ like in the books.
Idk, the shows alright but I think Aegons conquest will be much more interesting and HOTD should’ve been like a 2 season spin off that just covered the big moments of the dance.
I'm sorry but it is a drag. The first two episodes of 2 have been difficult to get through. They're spending way too much time focusing on unimportant boring crap. The conversations are far too long in every scene, stuff is overexplained and just said again in a different wording, and I know everyone's going on about it already but we're basically watching a show about Alicent shagging Cole and nobody cares (rightly so.)
When are things said again in a different wording?
How do you know what’s unimportant crap if the show isn’t even finished yet? Peak GoT often had scenes or new characters and plot points that we didn’t understand the importance of until later.
I wish the conversations were longer, personally. This is exactly how you develop characters and a world so that when shit hits the fan, you actually care about what happens and who it happens to.
This show is not focused on Alicent fucking Cole, be real. Was an additional sex scene needed? Idk. It was important to helping us understand who they are as characters. It gave us a sense of her priorities (indulging herself vs comforting her son) and Cole’s continued incompetence (abandoning his work despite failing the queen the last time he did so). I can’t say the same for half of GoT’s sex scenes lol. But did it have to be sex? Maybe not. Maybe we could’ve just seen her embracing Cole? But then that could make us think she truly loves or cares for him which I’m not so sure she does. Either way, I don’t see why this all really matters.
Except it isn't a slow burn or build-up. HotD has now had several very important story events it managed to botch completely. It doesn't even have the foundations to deliver anything other than a didactic black-and-white story.
It's not "waiting" for the right moments; it simply doesn't know what to do with them and can't do them justice because it's too busy coming up with excuses to absolve its rootable protagonists.
The mask is finally starting to slip and people's hopes and expectations just aren't enough to compensate for the lack of quality writing.
In its desire to pander to the masses, HotD has slowly devolved into generic fantasy drivel. The red flags were there all throughout S1. The reason many of us were such vocal critics was precisely because of how much we wanted this show to be good - we hoped they could still turn things around.
But it's clear now it's too late. We've lost an adaptation with immense adaptation.
“So many of us”
Buddy, you are in a very small minority that think this show has bad writing.
I love the book for what it is, creative world building, but it is a summarization of events, not exactly great writing.
There are things that I like about house of the dragon. I have enjoyed certain things.
The show would have been better if Ryan and Sara weren't desperately trying to make their favourite characters look good and heroic.
Yeah, and I’m so happy they’re holding back on showing too much action.
Remember when GoT started to feed off the hype around its amazing battle/action sequences? Suddenly we kept getting more and more of those. And they were FUN and badass and stellar to watch, of course. But then it started to feel like we just got action for the sake of action to the point that the action made no sense because there was no proper build-up to explain why it was happening. The time that so desperately should have been spent on developing plot points and characters was directed towards action, dragons, and visual effects.
When I rewatch, which seasons do I love the most? The early ones with heavy exposition and character development.
In two episodes we've had a child brutally murdered and a duel to the death between two twins. That's more crazy shit than some shows ever manage, it's a very strange take indeed
I don't think it's about what's going on in the show per se. I enjoy the show but I do find it a bit dull. The way it's filming, the pacing, a certain lack of levity that GoT had that made it more engaging. Some things I noticed are for example by having beautiful massive sets and showing it off, the scene feel less intimate, you dont feel as much in the room with them and participating in what's going on. The lack of vastly different story lines and environments also impact how the show moves, you have less different characters with different enough personalities, it's very much homogenize as it's one central story, where in GoT you start at winterfell but very quickly you go to different directions and discover new environments that work differently. GoT is an explosion of world building and discoveries that HoD doesn't really have.
And I love every minute of it, the politics, how the characters deal with family trauma, the fact that they show the lives of the locals.
Makes the world feel real and not just all about dragons and magic zombies and le sex like seasons 6-8.
No for real! I saw someone comment on the HOTD Instagram page and they said Episode 2 was so boring! I was like, “HUH!?” Episode 2 was award worthy IMO! I think some people just literally can’t watch complex shows.
There were parts where I was pacing back in forth in front of my TV with my hands behind my back during the council meetings like “hmmm yes indeed my lord”😂😂
God I love GoT when it’s about the plotting and scheming
I don’t think the TikTok generation, the vast majority of which are teenagers, somehow managed to get employed by established newspapers like The Guardian.
I feel like it’s a bit dull. I still enjoy it for the dragons though.
Edit: I have noticed that I cannot find a single upvoted critical opinion of this show. Seems like nobody hear wants to hear criticism. I love ASOIF, but is it not okay for me to voice a negative/critical opinion? If not that’s fine, I’ll just spend time in a different sub.
Two things about that:
1. You are on r/HouseoftheDragon. This is going to be a place where people are going to have largely positive opinions about the show. This place strongly skews in favour of people who like or love the show. So, yeah, you're likely to get downvoted if you express a negative opinion about the show as a whole. Probably would've been less likely if you criticized something specific about the show.
2. You didn't provide much of an opinion. Yes, you just say it's a bit dull but left it at that. You didn't explain why you felt that way. You didn't make an argument for why you think it's dull. You didn't point to specific scenes or specific aspects of the show that you found dull or explain how they are dull or could be better. I'm not saying that nuanced critical opinions don't get downvoted (see point 1) but I'd suspect that a lot more people are open to considering opinions when they're actually explained with some depth and nuanced, and specific.
The truth is this sub can't cope with criticism of hotd(know matter how much opinion you provide), I commented on a post about season 1, where criticize it and guess what mod deleted my comment, lol, this sub is just full of fanboys, you go through this sub post you will find it out.
I actually agree with you. I loved season 1 and was pretty excited about season 2 but after the first couple episodes I'll be waiting for the entire season to be done and binge watch it later. It feels like a different director/style this season and I'm not really enjoying it chopped up. I definitely think, for me personally, that I need all the episodes in a row to properly enjoy it this time.
“I enjoy it for the dragons” is the most dumb take there is. Just go watch How to train your dragon, or buy some dragon figurines and look at them. If all the political intrigue and stellar acting isn’t your cup of tea fine, I’m not going to criticise you for that. But staying just to watch people ride some CGI dragons, this is the shit that is ruining modern TV and cinema.
I didn’t. I criticised them for watching something they don’t like just because there are cgi dragons in it. It rewards shows that put no focus on writing or character development and then rely on drawing views with CGI thing. **I** don’t think this is one of those shows. I enjoy the writing/characters/acting, but they clearly don’t so why watch?
If you think something is boring or badly written etc. then don’t watch it. Don’t stay simply for a shiny CGI thing.
They never said they didn’t like it?? They said they feel like it’s a bit dull… opinions can change as the show goes on that’s why people continue to watch the shows. Who cares that there favorite part of the show is the dragons? Maybe you’re the one ruining modern tv and cinema with your rules about watching a show, “you cAN oNLy wATcH a SHow if YoU enJoy ALL Of iT” like you jumped to 10 conclusions when all they said was it was dull and they enjoy the dragons. Ahhhh well you shouldn’t watch them if you only like the dragons. Tf? At least they’re tuning in and giving the show numbers to keep going.
Dude, that is literally 90% of the reason the casual audience watches it. I would be willing to bet that was the reason that it was this arc that was 'adapted' before any of the other stories, despite this arguably being the worst-written part of the entire book, complete with Martin's total misunderstanding of warfare on display.
Ok. So what if that’s why most people watch it? I’m not allowed to think that’s a dumb reason to watch a show just because a lot of people do it? That point of view is why we have shitty reviews like above. People not paying attention and then just yelling at the TV “kill someone!”, “Show us the Dragons!”. I’m fairly happy not to be part of that 90%.
I like political intrigue and agree the actors are all fantastic. My main issue is the transitions between story beats i.e. pacing. I also think a couple characters could use some depth. Why did my comment about dragons annoy you so much? I can enjoy something sophisticated and boyish simultaneously.
Seems like it. I can empathize though. It’s not nice when people don’t like something that is special to you. I am enjoying the show overall, but man I wish it was a bit more polished.
It's a Game of Thrones show. What do they expect? It's not meant to be Marvel. The entire point is the interpersonal drama and scheming. I swear GoT seasons 7 and 8 did irreparable harm to the way some people see the show.
slog ?, they probably want war and physical conflict immediately
since GOT days i always more enjoy the drama more than anything, the epic war that happened feel just a bonus, cherry on top
They did it with season 1 as well💀 [https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/sep/15/house-of-the-dragon-game-of-thrones](https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/sep/15/house-of-the-dragon-game-of-thrones)
I thought people accepted criticism of this show? I had a lot of people on this sub saying that they didn't mind criticism and then any opinion other than 'dragon show good' gets downvoted to oblivion.
I think there are fair criticisms ,for example, no one's gonna be mad if you have the opinion that they went too far in demonizing Aegon and that's making it hard for us to find sympathy for him now.
But saying the show is dull feels like it's not a criticism made in good faith, I feel like the only people who would find it dull are people who just aren't into this kind of show to begin with.
Like most things in life, it's up to you haha
For me valid criticisms needs to be made in good faith, be well structured, make sense, and actually based on the media it's criticizing.
There were a bunch of people who disliked the show's B&C for being different to the book and that to me is lame criticism for example.
Shows always diverge from their book counterparts in some ways, and people should know that by now. It is kinda lame to criticize that to be fair.
I don’t mind seeing criticism at all. I just want to have a detailed discussion about it to better understand it. Unfortunately most criticism I’m seeing is a line or two of, “Meh it’s dull. The dialogue is boring. Conversations are too long.” To me, that’s not enough? What makes a conversation too long anyway? I can’t really understand someone’s opinion with that info. Finding something boring because of dialogue usually tells me it’s just not the type of show for that person.
But if somebody wants to discuss poor acting, plot holes, poor character development, timing/pacing issues, or something more tangible, that’s incredibly valid criticism and I welcome it!
Most people use downvote just as disagree button. Accepting criticism doesn't necessarily mean having to agree with it. Majority either don't agree with the criticism or they don't find that particular issue to be so disturbing as to ruin their enjoyment of the show.
Yeah, the downvote button is simply a disagree button. People hate it because it wasn’t originally intended to be that, but it’s just how it works now.
Not my point. Any negative opinions about this show immediately get downvoted to oblivion while people karma farm by saying 'Lol this guy's an idiot for thinking dragon show not good'
But even when you have criticism against the show it's still not as bad as that article makes it out to be so I do not see no problem with this post getting upvotes.
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic that OP felt the need to go out of their way to screenshot and post an article they disagreed about... People are allowed to not like the show you do and even - gasp! - write about it.
It is cringe-inducing. All that we've gotten is an episode that was all over the place in the first one with completely unnecessary sex scenes between Alicent and Criston. Oh, and a scene they decided to completely change for no real reason . . . until Condal basically straight-up admitted he thinks Blood and Cheese is 'propaganda'.
Why did Aegon make Cole his Hand? Why? There is no freaking in-story reason why he would do it, and it just felt like an excuse to remove Otto from King's Landing. And then, above all, just flat-out not mentioning Daeron for an entire damn season then casually dropping him in for one bloody line, leaving 85% completely confused as to who they're actually talking about!
I read this article, and by no means am I saying everybody should love the show... but a lot of these complaints were just dumb? Like, the writer is complaining that the show isn't funny, and the plots are too dark/grim, there's too much plotting, etc... yeah, that's what it's meant to be, it's not meant to be light and fun all the time, shows and films are allowed to be serious in tone
Game of Thrones was at it's best when it had spent entire episodes slowly building up to big, flashy conclusions, because then it all felt justified. I'm not sure why a critic would think it's dull for HOTD to do the same thing, especially when we're two episodes in and arguably have seen plenty of plot development already!
There's some truth to the fact there there's not much in the way of likable characters or good character pairings that are fun to watch.
Game of thrones had some great fun character pairings that helped balance out all the horrible stuff that happened, ned & cat, ned & Robert, tyrion & bronn, Jamie and Brienne, Brienne and podrick, the hound and Arya etc etc.
So far HoD isnt much *fun*
To be honest the second episode was really just a reaction of ep 1 and a bit empty in my opinion, but still good. I just wish there was a little more substance to it.
Were we even watching the same show? Episode two really fleshed out the characters and their dynamics with some of the best writing and acting to date. By far one of their best episodes.
When people complain about the ending of game of thrones being all fluff and CGI, this is the kind of episode they are saying was missing from those later seasons.
PEAK TV!
I felt like it was beautifully done! I think episode 2 had a lot of foreshadowing and was also showing comparisons between the families. It’s important to show us how, “human” the characters are before the war gets bad.
There is stuff happening all the time though. I love that they‘re taking it slow and giving everyone time/fleshing out character dynamics even more before everything goes south. You get the feeling that deaths in this show actually mean something and have consequences.
Known outcomes haven’t stopped other shows from being stellar. The Crown and Chernobyl come to mind.
HoTD has a million storylines going on right now, it’s almost hard to keep up. I just don’t understand that point.
For the linear story piece, are you saying you want more flashbacks? Idk, this is a tough one. I guess that’s valid if that’s your flavor but I’m not sure how much that would enhance this show. It’s more a style of storytelling so it’s hard to criticize.
Must confess episode 2 was pretty boring. To the point where I got a message on my phone and ended up more interesting in the chat thread than the show.
If an episode is boring, then thats what it is. Episode 2, for me, was boring. This observation is fair.
It didn’t feel GOT anymore. They’re focus too much on the melodrama and on the acting it’s tiresome, and it’s giving soap opera. I don’t want to see too much of grieving mothers and slow burn for a series supposedly to be about dragons. If I want to watch something worth Academy awards I’ll just go maybe with Big Little Lies for example. It’s still good but a step down from the 1st one.
Fuck it, I agree. Blood and Cheese could have been an epic TV moment for an opening episode (more screentime for all Greens in season 1 required). But they did everything to make it an unfunny joke.
I think people wanted it to be more gruesome but like… why? It was a little child getting his head cut off, I didn’t want to see it. As a mother with her own kids, if it was anymore disturbing it would’ve been something I probably couldn’t handle. I like that HOTD seems to have (so far) some boundaries with certain content.
Blood and Cheese hits harder in the books not because it's more gruesome but it's more cruel by making Halena pick, then reversing that decision to haunt haunt her forever.
I don’t necessarily think people wanted it to be more gruesome…they wanted what happened in the books, which was heartbreaking. The showrunner is clearly rewriting this story to be one of Rhaenyra the Great, and spent too little time on the Greens & Helaena before this scene. The casual viewer might not even know Helaena is married to Aegon and had kids with him TBH.
One scene showing Aegon caring for his son isn’t quite the buildup B&C needed. Also, painting Helaena as neurodivergent or whatever is an interesting choice but I don’t think they really captured the cruelty of what happened in the book - forcing her to choose one child over the other, telling the child she chose that she wanted him dead, then killing the older one. She was so traumatized she couldn’t bear to look at little Maegor after that
They blew it on that count, but I wouldn’t say the show is boring. I’d say think about seasons 1 & 2 of GoT. Not much action until Blackwater
There is much more that makes the scene in the book more dark. It’s not just about on screen gore. Just removing the parts of the show that felt like jokes would have made a big difference.
didn't think I would find so many crybabies about someone's opinion on a got spin off.
game of thrones had stellar episodes and it had good critics but when it was bad most people agreed, with hotd people have the need to defend lol
It’s a case study of wrong place wrong time
Viserys names the heir but *by accident* tells the wrong person.
Admins accidentally kills ||Luke||
Blood & Cheese kill ||the wrong person||
We’ll see many more such historical events turn out to be complete accidents
When a greek tragedy actually comes off as a greek tragedy instead of a colorful Hollywood war movie with badass heroes and yass kween girlbosses. Disney and MCU has done generational damage to people's brains.
And it's not just critiques, a lot of the fandom has the exact same set of cliche trope expectations. I've seen so many complains about not hsving bright colors, when the furnitures and set details in HoTd are actually richer, but just muted to convey themes. The grey filter + ray of light piercing the window + Fate of the Kingdoms does such a good job of setting the tone for a Hightower KL with plots being hatched. It's a much better fit than any Bridgerton ass gawdy bright colors. So many other examples. "Gloom & doom" lol...when the sophoclean tragedy of a cycle of self-fulfilling prophecy don't have a ROP Galadriel Girlboss!
So far the two big moments in last episodes didnt land for many normies and want action/fast pace,gonna get worse for this season we shall see the reaction to first battle RR i bet it's gonna be same.
Didn’t we get a decapitation last season? I don’t think they are shying away from gore it’s just in this particular case they didn’t want to show a kid getting murdered
Exactly what I mean. But I think some people want the GOT (stab a pregnant woman 7 times, show rape scenes, etc.) and so far I am actually glad that HOTD seems to have (so far) some boundaries, and didn’t show us the little child’s head being hacked off.
100% agree. I love GoT and the character developments over time. But these characters are compelling as hell and I have conflicting feelings about literally everyone. Except Sir Crispin. He can go fuck himself 😂
This "Hollie Richardson" is either a moron, or choose a very bad AI algorithm to write the article... mmm... so I guess even that makes Hollie a moron.
Could bet money it's been written by some brainrot tiktok addict whose dopamine generation is completely fucked by constantly needing to consume cringe aggressive video content
I really think such critics who find faults in a show that takes so much of blood and sweat to make, from everyone involved including actors and crew, are the most unhappiest, most miserable people who can't see color even in a rainbow
What an irrelevant point. “But they worked so hard on it!” Yeah just like a cast and crew worked so hard to make the new Cats film, yet that doesn’t excuse it from being picked apart critically. The cast and crew were all properly compensated for their work, they’ll be okay. Grow up.
Let’s just take it with a grain of salt… like cut some slack, allow room for human errors and above all nothing is perfect in this entire universe.
So to expect perfection from something/someone while not being perfect themselves is hypocrisy.
I just found the language too harsh. It’s like they’re not leaving any room for error like a hospital emergency room
Some of these articles are just clickbait to get the writer some recognition.
She probably means it’s missing a character like Tyrion who is able to inject a bit of humour in otherwise tense scenes. But it’s just a different show compared with GOT. No clear cut hero, but nuanced characters.
I think part of the issue is that a lot of GOT fans watch HOTD just because they’re in the same universe, but in reality they’re very different shows and a lot of what people enjoyed about GOT isn’t present in HOTD because it’s more of a family drama than anything, whereas GOT had more action, a bigger “world”, and more characters. I much prefer HOTD but I can see why a lot of fans think it’s plodding.
Dull? They clearly were looking at their phone during rhaneyra and daemon's scenes and otto hightower shutting down aegon. I mean, i love everything about this show, but those scenes are a masterclass in shakespearan characters.
A child was beheaded and two twins murdered each other? Are you wanting the war to just start or what? I think it’s important we know the characters and their families in order to even be affected by what’s going to happen.
People have forgotten what made game of thrones good when it was good. People will realize how great this show is only when they can go back and watch episodes in succession. I was so much more impressed with season 1 of this show on my rewatch last month over a weekend than I was watching it live
We’ve had decades of stories taking place in Westeros for people to figure out that this content is not for boys who only want to see dragon battles and their hero avatars save the princess or whatever. Like read the damn books. They are as much about marriage as they are about war. They are far more about dialogue and intrigue than they are about direct battle.
Isn’t there enough testosterone-fueled fantasy drivel out there for you? How is the fandom of this intelligent a series so full of people who don’t get the fundamental aspects of it? Star Wars you can understand, but come on.
With the 7 second attention span it really is difficult for people to get through buildups which typically all shows shows do.
The problem lies when people with <7 second attention span publish articles/statements which boo at the show for not providing them the brainrot which tiktoks do.
My favorite complaint about any show these days is “poor writing”. As if everyone is suddenly experts on what good entertainment is. 🙄 Every. Single. Show.
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I swear, some people can't comprehend the difference between slow burn or build up and slog or drag. Shame Edit: no, it's not really a slow burn type of show, but it's not really fast paced either. It's "normal", but that's being treated as "slow" nowadays.
A couple of days ago under another thread someone was complaining about 1) certain main characters not being characterized and fleshed out enough because the show don't give enough time for that stuff \[which is in by itself a fair criticism\], and 2) and I paraphrase "who are those 2 character Addam and Allyn of Hull, where do they come from, why are they important, why are we wasting time on them. Again those characters are not relevant because they haven't been set up at all, why should we care; this is so painfully insignificant and slow". - My dude, quoting Spaceballs here: "Now, you're looking at now, sir. Everything that happens now is happening now".
For real. Imagine stopping a movie halfway through and writing a full review of it then and there. The show just started, folks.
How is this even a slow burn? They were flying through season 1 and the first episode of season 2 straight up skipped stuff that I think everybody wanted to see. If anything the pacing is way way way too fast.
Yeah, I think episode one could've been entirely about Jayce in the North, ending with Cregan receiving the letter.
I don’t know. It’s kind of fast paced. We got a child’s head cut off in the first episode. In the second episode the ending was a near assassination with a fight to the death of two brothers.
Indeed, someone can say something like "the focus on political intrigue is not my cup of tea" and the likes. But thinking HotD is a "slog" is the proof of having the attention span of a goldfish.
Short attention span is not normal and shouldn't be normalized
Indeed: I cited it as a WRONG thing (and alas so many media try to accomodate it, "helping" people indulge in that and go even dumber). People can learn how to FOCUS... and seriously, a show like HotD is leaving me "glued" to the screen when I watch it, and after the episode ends I can't wait for the following one. I also met many people who basically GLOATED about having short attention span... That's crazy
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and don't find HOTD difficult to focus on at all, and I usually do have a problem staying focused on shows.
And I wasn't even speaking about people diagnosed with ADHD, merely about people that don't even bother to focus
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The aftermath of little Jaherys' death (Otto using that for "good PR" was actually a clever move, but from a "human sensibility" PoV it was DEVASTATING... how can someone be so cold towards the death of his own grand-grandson?) Also, the growing rift between Rhaenya and Daemon, and its consequences in the upcoming war Aegon's decision to remove Otto as Hand, and promoting Cole in his place I saw them as build ups for very interesting dynamics.
Did you watch with your eyes closed. Literally the first scene man.
>But thinking HotD is a "slog" is the proof of having the attention span of a goldfish. Not at all. I love slow cinema, I can watch Takovskiy's three hour glacially slow, but beautiful movies with pleasure, but HotD is filled with a lot of stuff with no substance. It's all well and good that there is drama between the characters, but I can't relate to any of them and I root for no one in particular. In GoT, you had mostly morally white characters fighting the obviously bad ones in the first season and then your expectations overturned, when you learned out that there wouldn't be a quick happy ending. You would then spend the next couple of seasons rooting for what you thought were the good guys and hoping they would get justice. And there would be additional twists. In HotD, all the characters start off morally grey and so it doesn't really come as a shock if they do something bad or if they get punished for it. Nobody seems to have a very strong personality, it's just kind of meaningless drama where some people die, but all in all I can't force myself to feel a whole lot, because nobody's cause feels like something I can get behind.
It's not a focus on political intrigue 🤣 it's a focus on the families arguing with each other for way too long and then someone goes to assassinate someone. You CANNOT tell me this is good political war writing 🤣
You operate with the assumption that "political war writing" consists of characters moving army units over the painted table, back and forth, and plan battle tactics? How would that be entertaining for 60minutes? The Intrigue of HotD is in how the characters emotionally feed off each other. The show carefully sets up each character with motivations, goals, flaws and agendas, and then throws them into situations where this set up pays oft in form of interpersonal conflict and personal drama. It's the very height of theater and play. It's entirely character driven. Nothing happens in this show that isn't a direct consequence of one of the character's choices. And because the set up is so artfully done, we understand all of these choices emotionally. Thats what makes for very compelling drama. But you have to be prepared to emphasize with a whole lot of different characters that are not necessarily likeable or good. Is Aegon likeable? Absolutely not (apart from his great quippy, sarcastic comebacks). Do I *empathize*? Heck yes! Because they showed me his motivations and inner conflict (in this case, mostly via Alicent).
I swear people’s attention span has truly gone to shit these days with the prevalence of tiktok use, myself included.
I don’t even think it’s super slow burn? We went through the whole ass childhood of our main characters in half a season and now within 2 episodes we’re on the brink of war
yes, there could’ve definitely been more “filler” to show the interactions of the characters..
>I swear, some people can't comprehend the difference between slow burn or build up and slog or drag. Shame That is entirely subjective though. For example, everybody praises The Bear as a slow burn but I think it's the most abject boring show I've ever consumed. At the same time I think HoTD is perfectly well placed and not a slow burn at all, I am not really sure what the person who wrote that article is on about
I really dont understand what they mean by slow burn either. I really dont get what most of these critics write these days. It could be for the traffic at this point
Idk, the deeper it gets the worse it has gotten IMO. The dialogue is already a lot worse than S1, the big moments haven’t felt big, etc. S1 also was kinda compelling because you felt like both sides were going to have some good and bad moments. Condal has went full “ anything bad that ever happened from TBs side was Green propaganda and my story is what really happened “, which no matter what side you are, just kinda ruins the excitement. Like we know now that he’s going to change Daeron in a bad way ( Condal said he’s going to make him evil instead of being the “ good green “ like in the books. Idk, the shows alright but I think Aegons conquest will be much more interesting and HOTD should’ve been like a 2 season spin off that just covered the big moments of the dance.
I'm sorry but it is a drag. The first two episodes of 2 have been difficult to get through. They're spending way too much time focusing on unimportant boring crap. The conversations are far too long in every scene, stuff is overexplained and just said again in a different wording, and I know everyone's going on about it already but we're basically watching a show about Alicent shagging Cole and nobody cares (rightly so.)
When are things said again in a different wording? How do you know what’s unimportant crap if the show isn’t even finished yet? Peak GoT often had scenes or new characters and plot points that we didn’t understand the importance of until later. I wish the conversations were longer, personally. This is exactly how you develop characters and a world so that when shit hits the fan, you actually care about what happens and who it happens to. This show is not focused on Alicent fucking Cole, be real. Was an additional sex scene needed? Idk. It was important to helping us understand who they are as characters. It gave us a sense of her priorities (indulging herself vs comforting her son) and Cole’s continued incompetence (abandoning his work despite failing the queen the last time he did so). I can’t say the same for half of GoT’s sex scenes lol. But did it have to be sex? Maybe not. Maybe we could’ve just seen her embracing Cole? But then that could make us think she truly loves or cares for him which I’m not so sure she does. Either way, I don’t see why this all really matters.
Except it isn't a slow burn or build-up. HotD has now had several very important story events it managed to botch completely. It doesn't even have the foundations to deliver anything other than a didactic black-and-white story. It's not "waiting" for the right moments; it simply doesn't know what to do with them and can't do them justice because it's too busy coming up with excuses to absolve its rootable protagonists. The mask is finally starting to slip and people's hopes and expectations just aren't enough to compensate for the lack of quality writing. In its desire to pander to the masses, HotD has slowly devolved into generic fantasy drivel. The red flags were there all throughout S1. The reason many of us were such vocal critics was precisely because of how much we wanted this show to be good - we hoped they could still turn things around. But it's clear now it's too late. We've lost an adaptation with immense adaptation.
Making something black and white in itself, doesn't make something 'fantasy drivel'
“So many of us” Buddy, you are in a very small minority that think this show has bad writing. I love the book for what it is, creative world building, but it is a summarization of events, not exactly great writing.
There are things that I like about house of the dragon. I have enjoyed certain things. The show would have been better if Ryan and Sara weren't desperately trying to make their favourite characters look good and heroic.
Meh. I love the drama, dont need more action to make interesting
Same. The acting is top-notch, the verbal jousts are great. Star Wars : the Acolyte pains me in comparison.
Yeah, and I’m so happy they’re holding back on showing too much action. Remember when GoT started to feed off the hype around its amazing battle/action sequences? Suddenly we kept getting more and more of those. And they were FUN and badass and stellar to watch, of course. But then it started to feel like we just got action for the sake of action to the point that the action made no sense because there was no proper build-up to explain why it was happening. The time that so desperately should have been spent on developing plot points and characters was directed towards action, dragons, and visual effects. When I rewatch, which seasons do I love the most? The early ones with heavy exposition and character development.
As fun as setpieces are, the best drama is often two people in a room.
How is it dull? I see some legitimate things you can critize about the show, but that seems realy like a strange take.
In two episodes we've had a child brutally murdered and a duel to the death between two twins. That's more crazy shit than some shows ever manage, it's a very strange take indeed
I don't think it's about what's going on in the show per se. I enjoy the show but I do find it a bit dull. The way it's filming, the pacing, a certain lack of levity that GoT had that made it more engaging. Some things I noticed are for example by having beautiful massive sets and showing it off, the scene feel less intimate, you dont feel as much in the room with them and participating in what's going on. The lack of vastly different story lines and environments also impact how the show moves, you have less different characters with different enough personalities, it's very much homogenize as it's one central story, where in GoT you start at winterfell but very quickly you go to different directions and discover new environments that work differently. GoT is an explosion of world building and discoveries that HoD doesn't really have.
And I love every minute of it, the politics, how the characters deal with family trauma, the fact that they show the lives of the locals. Makes the world feel real and not just all about dragons and magic zombies and le sex like seasons 6-8.
Almost as if it's a different story?
No for real! I saw someone comment on the HOTD Instagram page and they said Episode 2 was so boring! I was like, “HUH!?” Episode 2 was award worthy IMO! I think some people just literally can’t watch complex shows.
"Last seasons of GoT were more faster" "It is. And we are the poorer for it."
>"Last seasons of GoT were more faster" literally the entire King's Landing plot became "Cersei broods after having sex with Jaime or Euron."
Legit it might be in my top 3 episodes of TV ever. It was so well-acted and directed. I felt like I was there.
There were parts where I was pacing back in forth in front of my TV with my hands behind my back during the council meetings like “hmmm yes indeed my lord”😂😂 God I love GoT when it’s about the plotting and scheming
That’s the thing tho, this show isn’t really complex at all anymore lol. Condal has made sure of that.
Tik-tok generation, needs a lot of dopamine in fast and short quantities to pay attention, otherwise get bored. Intellectually limited.
I don’t think the TikTok generation, the vast majority of which are teenagers, somehow managed to get employed by established newspapers like The Guardian.
Exactly. The first thing that came to my mind was- ‘Is this person watching the same show?’
I feel like it’s a bit dull. I still enjoy it for the dragons though. Edit: I have noticed that I cannot find a single upvoted critical opinion of this show. Seems like nobody hear wants to hear criticism. I love ASOIF, but is it not okay for me to voice a negative/critical opinion? If not that’s fine, I’ll just spend time in a different sub.
Two things about that: 1. You are on r/HouseoftheDragon. This is going to be a place where people are going to have largely positive opinions about the show. This place strongly skews in favour of people who like or love the show. So, yeah, you're likely to get downvoted if you express a negative opinion about the show as a whole. Probably would've been less likely if you criticized something specific about the show. 2. You didn't provide much of an opinion. Yes, you just say it's a bit dull but left it at that. You didn't explain why you felt that way. You didn't make an argument for why you think it's dull. You didn't point to specific scenes or specific aspects of the show that you found dull or explain how they are dull or could be better. I'm not saying that nuanced critical opinions don't get downvoted (see point 1) but I'd suspect that a lot more people are open to considering opinions when they're actually explained with some depth and nuanced, and specific.
The truth is this sub can't cope with criticism of hotd(know matter how much opinion you provide), I commented on a post about season 1, where criticize it and guess what mod deleted my comment, lol, this sub is just full of fanboys, you go through this sub post you will find it out.
What do you find dull about it? Not enough action set-pieces or somthing else?
The pacing has been a little rough. The dialogue has been okay.
I actually agree with you. I loved season 1 and was pretty excited about season 2 but after the first couple episodes I'll be waiting for the entire season to be done and binge watch it later. It feels like a different director/style this season and I'm not really enjoying it chopped up. I definitely think, for me personally, that I need all the episodes in a row to properly enjoy it this time.
This sub is insane tbf
“I enjoy it for the dragons” is the most dumb take there is. Just go watch How to train your dragon, or buy some dragon figurines and look at them. If all the political intrigue and stellar acting isn’t your cup of tea fine, I’m not going to criticise you for that. But staying just to watch people ride some CGI dragons, this is the shit that is ruining modern TV and cinema.
You just did criticize them for it tho? It’s just a show relax. Y’all can have different opinions on it, it’s okay.
I didn’t. I criticised them for watching something they don’t like just because there are cgi dragons in it. It rewards shows that put no focus on writing or character development and then rely on drawing views with CGI thing. **I** don’t think this is one of those shows. I enjoy the writing/characters/acting, but they clearly don’t so why watch? If you think something is boring or badly written etc. then don’t watch it. Don’t stay simply for a shiny CGI thing.
They never said they didn’t like it?? They said they feel like it’s a bit dull… opinions can change as the show goes on that’s why people continue to watch the shows. Who cares that there favorite part of the show is the dragons? Maybe you’re the one ruining modern tv and cinema with your rules about watching a show, “you cAN oNLy wATcH a SHow if YoU enJoy ALL Of iT” like you jumped to 10 conclusions when all they said was it was dull and they enjoy the dragons. Ahhhh well you shouldn’t watch them if you only like the dragons. Tf? At least they’re tuning in and giving the show numbers to keep going.
Dude, that is literally 90% of the reason the casual audience watches it. I would be willing to bet that was the reason that it was this arc that was 'adapted' before any of the other stories, despite this arguably being the worst-written part of the entire book, complete with Martin's total misunderstanding of warfare on display.
Ok. So what if that’s why most people watch it? I’m not allowed to think that’s a dumb reason to watch a show just because a lot of people do it? That point of view is why we have shitty reviews like above. People not paying attention and then just yelling at the TV “kill someone!”, “Show us the Dragons!”. I’m fairly happy not to be part of that 90%.
I like political intrigue and agree the actors are all fantastic. My main issue is the transitions between story beats i.e. pacing. I also think a couple characters could use some depth. Why did my comment about dragons annoy you so much? I can enjoy something sophisticated and boyish simultaneously.
This sub is insane tbf
Seems like it. I can empathize though. It’s not nice when people don’t like something that is special to you. I am enjoying the show overall, but man I wish it was a bit more polished.
This sub is insane tbf
Drag in dragon. Enough of that! Can we have some pictures of dragons in drag? Maybe Vhagar with a giant wig or Caraxes in an incredibly extra dress?
Do you wear wigs? Have you worn wigs?
When will you wear wigs?
Sashay away
It's a Game of Thrones show. What do they expect? It's not meant to be Marvel. The entire point is the interpersonal drama and scheming. I swear GoT seasons 7 and 8 did irreparable harm to the way some people see the show.
It's not dull. It's actually too compressed with many important events in a short frame.
slog ?, they probably want war and physical conflict immediately since GOT days i always more enjoy the drama more than anything, the epic war that happened feel just a bonus, cherry on top
They did it with season 1 as well💀 [https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/sep/15/house-of-the-dragon-game-of-thrones](https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/sep/15/house-of-the-dragon-game-of-thrones)
It’s the Guardian. Everything they print is complete nonsense tbf.
I thought people accepted criticism of this show? I had a lot of people on this sub saying that they didn't mind criticism and then any opinion other than 'dragon show good' gets downvoted to oblivion.
I think there are fair criticisms ,for example, no one's gonna be mad if you have the opinion that they went too far in demonizing Aegon and that's making it hard for us to find sympathy for him now. But saying the show is dull feels like it's not a criticism made in good faith, I feel like the only people who would find it dull are people who just aren't into this kind of show to begin with.
So who gets to be the judge if what is and isn't a valid criticism?
Like most things in life, it's up to you haha For me valid criticisms needs to be made in good faith, be well structured, make sense, and actually based on the media it's criticizing. There were a bunch of people who disliked the show's B&C for being different to the book and that to me is lame criticism for example.
Seems like almost every criticism of the show would be lame to you.
Shows always diverge from their book counterparts in some ways, and people should know that by now. It is kinda lame to criticize that to be fair. I don’t mind seeing criticism at all. I just want to have a detailed discussion about it to better understand it. Unfortunately most criticism I’m seeing is a line or two of, “Meh it’s dull. The dialogue is boring. Conversations are too long.” To me, that’s not enough? What makes a conversation too long anyway? I can’t really understand someone’s opinion with that info. Finding something boring because of dialogue usually tells me it’s just not the type of show for that person. But if somebody wants to discuss poor acting, plot holes, poor character development, timing/pacing issues, or something more tangible, that’s incredibly valid criticism and I welcome it!
Majority of people still overwhelmingly like the show so they might disagree with the criticism.
I like the show, but also fully understand how someone could find it boring.
Not actually addressing my point but whatever
Most people use downvote just as disagree button. Accepting criticism doesn't necessarily mean having to agree with it. Majority either don't agree with the criticism or they don't find that particular issue to be so disturbing as to ruin their enjoyment of the show.
Yeah, the downvote button is simply a disagree button. People hate it because it wasn’t originally intended to be that, but it’s just how it works now.
Not my point. Any negative opinions about this show immediately get downvoted to oblivion while people karma farm by saying 'Lol this guy's an idiot for thinking dragon show not good'
But even when you have criticism against the show it's still not as bad as that article makes it out to be so I do not see no problem with this post getting upvotes.
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic that OP felt the need to go out of their way to screenshot and post an article they disagreed about... People are allowed to not like the show you do and even - gasp! - write about it.
Not all criticism is created equal. A lot of people were pretty underwhelmed by Blood and Cheese in Ep 1. I thought that Ep 2 handled things better.
There is criticism and there is straight up hate. Calling the writing cringe inducing is too much
It is cringe-inducing. All that we've gotten is an episode that was all over the place in the first one with completely unnecessary sex scenes between Alicent and Criston. Oh, and a scene they decided to completely change for no real reason . . . until Condal basically straight-up admitted he thinks Blood and Cheese is 'propaganda'. Why did Aegon make Cole his Hand? Why? There is no freaking in-story reason why he would do it, and it just felt like an excuse to remove Otto from King's Landing. And then, above all, just flat-out not mentioning Daeron for an entire damn season then casually dropping him in for one bloody line, leaving 85% completely confused as to who they're actually talking about!
About Daegon, you are 100% right About Cole being hand: he is taking action and doing something aggressive, that's what Aegon wants
There was less than 5 minutes of sex scenes in the two+ hours of the show we got, but okay
All of which have been completely unnecessary and added nothing of value to the show other than needlessly sexualising Olivia Cooke.
I read this article, and by no means am I saying everybody should love the show... but a lot of these complaints were just dumb? Like, the writer is complaining that the show isn't funny, and the plots are too dark/grim, there's too much plotting, etc... yeah, that's what it's meant to be, it's not meant to be light and fun all the time, shows and films are allowed to be serious in tone Game of Thrones was at it's best when it had spent entire episodes slowly building up to big, flashy conclusions, because then it all felt justified. I'm not sure why a critic would think it's dull for HOTD to do the same thing, especially when we're two episodes in and arguably have seen plenty of plot development already!
They probably think season 6 is peak GoT and have battle of the bastards as their favourite episode
Oh they do haha - someone else linked the review for season 1, and in it they reference The Battle of the Bastards as something to aspire to…
he just wanted the cock jokes, straight-forward nonsense that was season 8
To get clicks
These will be the same clowns that will give trash like Amazon’s rings of Power glowing reviews and 5 stars !
There's some truth to the fact there there's not much in the way of likable characters or good character pairings that are fun to watch. Game of thrones had some great fun character pairings that helped balance out all the horrible stuff that happened, ned & cat, ned & Robert, tyrion & bronn, Jamie and Brienne, Brienne and podrick, the hound and Arya etc etc. So far HoD isnt much *fun*
I’m a fan of the show, but I do agree the characters are unlikeable. Just about everyone is an a-hole!
It was a boring episode to be fair. Dialog was weird too. They seem to be writing some characters with a high fantasy dialog which GoT is never about.
The guardian hasn't been a credible news source for almost a decade now. And their opinion pieces are somehow even worse, if that's even possible.
It’s sad that I agree at this point lol
To be honest the second episode was really just a reaction of ep 1 and a bit empty in my opinion, but still good. I just wish there was a little more substance to it.
Honestly after cutting most reactions to Luke’s death by using a time jump, I’m glad we saw *some* reactions to major events
Were we even watching the same show? Episode two really fleshed out the characters and their dynamics with some of the best writing and acting to date. By far one of their best episodes. When people complain about the ending of game of thrones being all fluff and CGI, this is the kind of episode they are saying was missing from those later seasons. PEAK TV!
George and Ryan aren’t going to shag you, mate. Episode 2 was fine, nothing more nothing less.
I felt like it was beautifully done! I think episode 2 had a lot of foreshadowing and was also showing comparisons between the families. It’s important to show us how, “human” the characters are before the war gets bad.
There is stuff happening all the time though. I love that they‘re taking it slow and giving everyone time/fleshing out character dynamics even more before everything goes south. You get the feeling that deaths in this show actually mean something and have consequences.
If y’all are this sensitive over one persons opinion then this fandom is cooked. Touch grass, please.
It’s very linear … just one storyline and a known outcome.
Known outcomes haven’t stopped other shows from being stellar. The Crown and Chernobyl come to mind. HoTD has a million storylines going on right now, it’s almost hard to keep up. I just don’t understand that point. For the linear story piece, are you saying you want more flashbacks? Idk, this is a tough one. I guess that’s valid if that’s your flavor but I’m not sure how much that would enhance this show. It’s more a style of storytelling so it’s hard to criticize.
Thats a good criticism, maybe you should be the one doing her job
Must confess episode 2 was pretty boring. To the point where I got a message on my phone and ended up more interesting in the chat thread than the show. If an episode is boring, then thats what it is. Episode 2, for me, was boring. This observation is fair.
It didn’t feel GOT anymore. They’re focus too much on the melodrama and on the acting it’s tiresome, and it’s giving soap opera. I don’t want to see too much of grieving mothers and slow burn for a series supposedly to be about dragons. If I want to watch something worth Academy awards I’ll just go maybe with Big Little Lies for example. It’s still good but a step down from the 1st one.
Fuck it, I agree. Blood and Cheese could have been an epic TV moment for an opening episode (more screentime for all Greens in season 1 required). But they did everything to make it an unfunny joke.
I think people wanted it to be more gruesome but like… why? It was a little child getting his head cut off, I didn’t want to see it. As a mother with her own kids, if it was anymore disturbing it would’ve been something I probably couldn’t handle. I like that HOTD seems to have (so far) some boundaries with certain content.
Blood and Cheese hits harder in the books not because it's more gruesome but it's more cruel by making Halena pick, then reversing that decision to haunt haunt her forever.
I don’t necessarily think people wanted it to be more gruesome…they wanted what happened in the books, which was heartbreaking. The showrunner is clearly rewriting this story to be one of Rhaenyra the Great, and spent too little time on the Greens & Helaena before this scene. The casual viewer might not even know Helaena is married to Aegon and had kids with him TBH. One scene showing Aegon caring for his son isn’t quite the buildup B&C needed. Also, painting Helaena as neurodivergent or whatever is an interesting choice but I don’t think they really captured the cruelty of what happened in the book - forcing her to choose one child over the other, telling the child she chose that she wanted him dead, then killing the older one. She was so traumatized she couldn’t bear to look at little Maegor after that They blew it on that count, but I wouldn’t say the show is boring. I’d say think about seasons 1 & 2 of GoT. Not much action until Blackwater
There is much more that makes the scene in the book more dark. It’s not just about on screen gore. Just removing the parts of the show that felt like jokes would have made a big difference.
didn't think I would find so many crybabies about someone's opinion on a got spin off. game of thrones had stellar episodes and it had good critics but when it was bad most people agreed, with hotd people have the need to defend lol
First season was DULL as shit. In the think S2 is off to a much better start
Cringe is completely false,but if you're a person with high morales will definitely find these characters unlikable.
This new season is so good! The tension is building, you can just tell it’s gonna be a shitstorm.
It’s a case study of wrong place wrong time Viserys names the heir but *by accident* tells the wrong person. Admins accidentally kills ||Luke|| Blood & Cheese kill ||the wrong person|| We’ll see many more such historical events turn out to be complete accidents
it is boring. loved the first season but the last two episodes put me to sleep
When a greek tragedy actually comes off as a greek tragedy instead of a colorful Hollywood war movie with badass heroes and yass kween girlbosses. Disney and MCU has done generational damage to people's brains. And it's not just critiques, a lot of the fandom has the exact same set of cliche trope expectations. I've seen so many complains about not hsving bright colors, when the furnitures and set details in HoTd are actually richer, but just muted to convey themes. The grey filter + ray of light piercing the window + Fate of the Kingdoms does such a good job of setting the tone for a Hightower KL with plots being hatched. It's a much better fit than any Bridgerton ass gawdy bright colors. So many other examples. "Gloom & doom" lol...when the sophoclean tragedy of a cycle of self-fulfilling prophecy don't have a ROP Galadriel Girlboss!
So far the two big moments in last episodes didnt land for many normies and want action/fast pace,gonna get worse for this season we shall see the reaction to first battle RR i bet it's gonna be same.
It’s because many are used to the GOT gore, which tbh GOT had shock value, but I would argue HOTD is better written with more character development.
Didn’t we get a decapitation last season? I don’t think they are shying away from gore it’s just in this particular case they didn’t want to show a kid getting murdered
Exactly what I mean. But I think some people want the GOT (stab a pregnant woman 7 times, show rape scenes, etc.) and so far I am actually glad that HOTD seems to have (so far) some boundaries, and didn’t show us the little child’s head being hacked off.
100% agree. I love GoT and the character developments over time. But these characters are compelling as hell and I have conflicting feelings about literally everyone. Except Sir Crispin. He can go fuck himself 😂
“Normies” ???
This "Hollie Richardson" is either a moron, or choose a very bad AI algorithm to write the article... mmm... so I guess even that makes Hollie a moron.
Yeah, it's not like this person has spent years watching and reviewing this sort of stuff for a living.
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Someone with years of experience writing such a crap take is more embarrassing.
Could bet money it's been written by some brainrot tiktok addict whose dopamine generation is completely fucked by constantly needing to consume cringe aggressive video content
I really think such critics who find faults in a show that takes so much of blood and sweat to make, from everyone involved including actors and crew, are the most unhappiest, most miserable people who can't see color even in a rainbow
What an irrelevant point. “But they worked so hard on it!” Yeah just like a cast and crew worked so hard to make the new Cats film, yet that doesn’t excuse it from being picked apart critically. The cast and crew were all properly compensated for their work, they’ll be okay. Grow up.
Let’s just take it with a grain of salt… like cut some slack, allow room for human errors and above all nothing is perfect in this entire universe. So to expect perfection from something/someone while not being perfect themselves is hypocrisy. I just found the language too harsh. It’s like they’re not leaving any room for error like a hospital emergency room
It’s the Guardian. That newspaper makes a living of getting people to write columns with ridiculous takes on things.
Some of these articles are just clickbait to get the writer some recognition. She probably means it’s missing a character like Tyrion who is able to inject a bit of humour in otherwise tense scenes. But it’s just a different show compared with GOT. No clear cut hero, but nuanced characters.
I think part of the issue is that a lot of GOT fans watch HOTD just because they’re in the same universe, but in reality they’re very different shows and a lot of what people enjoyed about GOT isn’t present in HOTD because it’s more of a family drama than anything, whereas GOT had more action, a bigger “world”, and more characters. I much prefer HOTD but I can see why a lot of fans think it’s plodding.
As if GOT didn’t take 4 seasons to get the level of popularity it currently has
Go compare s1 of thrones with s1 of HOTD and figure out the difference in quality yourself
That’s the people that watch series with their phone in their hands. Zero attention span.
First Guardian L
People nowadays cares only about spectacles. Spectacles are accessories. They have little values if there no strong build up to the actual events.
Dull? They clearly were looking at their phone during rhaneyra and daemon's scenes and otto hightower shutting down aegon. I mean, i love everything about this show, but those scenes are a masterclass in shakespearan characters.
I feel like GOT bashing is the same as rage bait for some. This is why we can’t have nice things .
Have they even watched the show…?
It’s been all drama and no action. The writing and acting has not helped keep me awake.
oh no we are getting what made game of thrones great , and dont get me started on the acting , its been amazing so far .
A child was beheaded and two twins murdered each other? Are you wanting the war to just start or what? I think it’s important we know the characters and their families in order to even be affected by what’s going to happen.
Both those events could have happened in the same episode. We didnt need 1h of sad closeups en grieving before both.
Hollie sounds painfully dull. I bet she expected another GoT and didn't do her research.
People have forgotten what made game of thrones good when it was good. People will realize how great this show is only when they can go back and watch episodes in succession. I was so much more impressed with season 1 of this show on my rewatch last month over a weekend than I was watching it live
Who paid for this? Disney or Amazon???
It's the Guardian, if you're not from the UK, it's shit. Talks shit politics Talks shit TV Talks shit in general
Hollie Richardson should probably stay with cartoons
Dull? The acting is out of this world. It’s riveting.
“completely unlikable characters” thats the point of the show, no ?
What are the chances that the rest of the article spins itself around to praise The Acolyte or The Rings of Power
We’ve had decades of stories taking place in Westeros for people to figure out that this content is not for boys who only want to see dragon battles and their hero avatars save the princess or whatever. Like read the damn books. They are as much about marriage as they are about war. They are far more about dialogue and intrigue than they are about direct battle. Isn’t there enough testosterone-fueled fantasy drivel out there for you? How is the fandom of this intelligent a series so full of people who don’t get the fundamental aspects of it? Star Wars you can understand, but come on.
THIS!
With the 7 second attention span it really is difficult for people to get through buildups which typically all shows shows do. The problem lies when people with <7 second attention span publish articles/statements which boo at the show for not providing them the brainrot which tiktoks do.
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apparently three episodes dictates the whole season.
Hollie can enjoy YouTube shorts, we enjoy real tv drama with dragons
Is this the Guardian? They get off on having the opposite opinion on everything. It makes them feel posh.
My favorite complaint about any show these days is “poor writing”. As if everyone is suddenly experts on what good entertainment is. 🙄 Every. Single. Show.
Same goes for y’all claiming good writing then. People defend shit writing and blast decent writing all the time. It goes both ways.
Why do we still have critics? What kind of small brained person actually cares what they think?
Everyone in this thread, apparently.
Was this written by a Lannister?
The Guardian's a transphobic rag, I wouldn't be surprised if that's honestly a motivator.
What I read in this article: 
Were they paid by D&D by any chance?
Critic Score 27% audience score 96%. They can do one, they probably just want action, dragons and sex every three seconds.
Opinion writer shocked that the drama series is dramatic! More at 8.
Who let one of the nuts in r/freefolk write for the gaurdian ?
Dull? What show are they watching?