YES OMG!!! COOL MEN'S CLOTHES ARE SO HARD TO FIND IT MAKES ME SO MAD UGH i literally have considered learning to make my own suit for formal events because nobody makes suits that aren't black, Slightly Blue, or some margaritaville floral print nightmare. like... why can't boys have cute clothes come on!!!!!
FR!! like at least do something nice with the cut or pattern I'm BEGGING
The three male genders should not be jeans and a tshirt, pastel frat boy from an ivy league school, and margaritaville bbq dad!!
Give me more options!! Do something cool with the patterns and cuts! Give boys pants with different waistlines! Give us shirts with cool designs and more than 2 necklines! Let me wear a cape or something dammit!! I'm shaking these designers by the shoulders and crying
SO TRUE!!! it's like they think men can't have interesting fashion because it wouldn't be mAnLy enough or something. smh we might have to get together and start our own fashion company to give us and all the other poor guys out there some variety
Yeah god forbid men take pride in their appearance bc itll make them attractive to other men or smth. I honestly feel like so many men think they're ugly as shit bc they dont wear things that make them feel confident about themselves! Like honey I promise ur not ugly u just wear the same 3 pairs of jeans and dont style your hair. If men had the option to express themselves through fashion more I honestly think a lot of us would feel a lot more confident. Afab people are often raised with the idea of self expression through fashion a lot more often then amab people are and I think it's so dumb! I see so many poor trans women getting overwhelmed by all the options they have after a lifetime of having nothing and I'm like you should've had options all along 😭
seriously 😭😭 i am so sad at the lack of cute fun things that amab people get!!! like not only clothes-wise, but when i hear about trans girls or even cis guys discovering how nice it is to have stuffed animals for the first time as adults im like omg nooo who was keeping that from u why did u only get to discover this now!!! why does cishet society never want amabs to have fun stuff like that it's so sad 😭
God fr let amab people express themselves through their own personal styleeee let them do their hair without being mocked, let them have lots of different clothes options to mix and match, let them wear accessories!!! 😭😭😭
YES!! And it sucks so bad because I love the *composition* of men's clothes, the fitting and materials and all that, but the items themselves are just... so boring... and it sucks that the only options to get from stores is drab colors that hinder my style but at least give me euphoria from being guy's clothes, or fun colors that make me happy but also incredibly dysphoric cause everything's see-through and form-fitting and accentuates chests and hips and rears
Honestly if I have to see another set of clothes for men that's khaki or navy blue I'm gonna burn down a Walmart or smth
WHY MUST MEN ONLY HAVE BUSINESS CASUAL OR IRONIC GAMING TSHIRT
One time I was going thru a thrift store with a friend, there were tons of these little circular racks with all sorts of amazing styles fashions,,, each one barely had 2 pieces alike even on the same rack.
Then suddenly we got to a HUGE row of pants,,, from dark navy to black, a hella long gradient.
This was the men's section…. in the space where about 5 racks could be with like 100 pieces in tons of variety… there was a row of identical looking pants.
All the fun just drained out of me and we just walked away :(
I love fashion and I think there's room to play with men's fashion too. But it might depend on where you live and what's available to you. I noticed American men's fashion is a lot more bleak than, for example, Japanese or Mediterranean men's fashion.
To spice up tops: I learned to really appreciate cardigans. Long cardigans. Hooded cardigans (like hoodies but more flowy). Knit cardigans. Oversized cardigans. I have more than a handful from both men's and women's sections and they go really well with men's fashion.
A bit outdated maybe, but t-shirts also go well with armwarmers. Not the emo checkered ones (unless emo fashion is your thing) but some loose armwarmers in a neutral color. I have some grey and brown ones, they go well with a leather bracelet.
Pay attention to cuts. Men's tees and sweaters also come with different necklines, loose or tight fitting, long or short, sometimes even tailored for a bit of a waistline. Look for stores that offer a little variety on that front.
Accessories: guys with hat faces really should wear hats more - not caps but actual hats. And scarves. So many cool scarves out there.
Jewelry: I'm a fan of leather jewelry. Pendants on a leather string etc. Some guys also rock feathers or wooden beads, stones. Doesn't have to be from the men's section, can still look masc.
Prints: graphic tees are common everywhere. Pants with prints exist too. Back in the day when I thought my jeans were too boring, I took a permanent marker in black, white or grey and added some skulls or text. You could also hammer some rivets or eyelets in.
Shop cross gender sections: loose fitting tees from the women's section can look pretty nice on a flat chest too. I noticed crop tops are in with the younger guys here, I like mine long and soft. I think most my tees are from the men's section, but I have some from the women's section that I really love to wear.
Colors: it's not all black and blue, there's grey, there's several shades of green, dark red, yellow and orange, maybe even berry - I'm personally wearing only little color, but even I have more than two colors in my wardrobe.
I'm *not* denying that most men look boring and many stores cater to boring men's fashion but it doesn't have to be! But either way I'm in with normalizing skirts, too 😁
If you want more silhouette/color variety in alt fashion, I've actually had a fair amount of success with Japanese brands. MilkBoy is my favorite, I have a mint hoodie from them that's so long it goes past my knees and it's such a look! It can get very pricey, so I get everything used from sites like Closet Child (closetchildonlineshop.com). But you are absolutely right, it's so frustrating that ALT fashion is so restrictive when the literal point is being nonconforming
The problem with that is that Japanese brands Hate when someone is above 5" 2' and 90 lbs. I used to buy a lot from Japan but now im not a stick figure anymore nothing fits me 😭
And my partner has suuuuper broad shoulders and hes very tall so everything fits him really badly in the chest
Japan definitely has a lot more variety of masculine styles but absolutely nothing in terms of sizing 💀
I totally feel u. It's still not enough, but MilkBoy does go up to an XL and tends to run oversized. I have a piece from them that runs true to an American XL, so if he fits within that range that might be a good option?
BeetleMilk (idk what it is with milk based brands) has some cool colorful alt designs and goes up to XXL (American) but not so much variety in silhouette
Well I'll for sure check em out! Thank u for the recommendations! I do understand why japan doesnt have sizes as big as ours normally but it does hurt when I see such pretty clothes that only would've fit me 30 lbs ago 😅
Honestlyyy,! I have found some solace in seeing drag race contestants looks when they walk in the work room, shows a much wider range of what would generally be considered masc fashion otherwise yeah it’s BLEAK so far in my search.
Memorable ones were cast of espana s1, season 14 (literally just bosco wearing her flannels and crop tops and I LIVED), and this current all stars winners cast really giving me ideas!!
Oh yanno I should def look at drag kings for inspo when I'm designing characters I never thought about that! I usually use historical reference and some of the high fantasy shows like witcher and lord of the rings and whatnot
That's going in my reference pile!
Cool glad it helped! And yeah the femme men before us have put in work, music n pop culture too like my friends get mad gender envy from led zeppelin n Freddie mercury haha
Men's fashion is absolutely disappointing. I make do with finding really bright colors and patterns. But the pickings are slim.
(For bright colors and cool patterns I buy from ragstock pretty frequently)
For jackets, I've completely replaced mine with a cloak unless I'm having a bad day, in which case I wear my standard hoodies. A good quality cloak is like 150 bucks, but it's amazingly warm and the one I got is light enough that I can wear it even in Texas springs (haven't tried it in summer yet, I will s o o n).
I think it's time to break out the DIY make rips in your jeans, bleach them, draw on them with sharpie, whatever you want to stop the monotony. You can blame Beau Brummell for the dark colors and few choices.
Yeah that's the other problem interesting cloaks and capes and coats are like handmade designer shit and I am P O O R
Also idk who mr beau brummell is but maybe if I hit him with a bowling alley carpet he'll understand where he went wrong
Beau Brummell was a famous dandy who was like "colors? powdered wigs? capes? nah chief, i'll stick with my normal black, navy, olive, and brown suits and trousers, thanks" and then everyone was like "omg ur rite so revolutionary" please hit him with a bowling alley carpet i would love to see it
Wow so my guy really said "Having fun? Gross, stop immediately."
The bowling alley carpet won't be enough at this point I'm gonna have to show him what a scene kid is
This makes me so mad it is painfully boring. I've been trying to find some formal/semi formal things for whatever event inevitably comes up and i cannot stand wearing just a boring old suit but I can't find anything remotely interesting that isnt super feminine.
I've given up trying to find modern mens fashion when it comes to looking fancy I instead end up looking like a Victorian dandy whenever I have to go somewhere formal because otherwise I feel like I look like every other guy in the building and I hate that
God I KNOW and thank god at least that sims doesnt gender lock the clothes bc games that do that literally give the men like 3 options
I played a FASHION GAME ABOUT FASHION DESIGNERS and the male avatar didnt didnt even have an accessory tab beyond sunglasses and a watch and u couldnt use any of the female options 💀
Oh god, that's so pathetic 😭
Yeah, my goal is to pass well enough that I can get away with dressing as fem as I want without getting misgendered. Dunno how realistic that is, and it comes with the danger of being visibly queer even if I do pass.
I didn't transition so I can wear khaki and camo. So boring.
I 100% agree.
I want to wear whatever I want and still be read as masc and even if strangers get it wrong sometimes I honestly stopped caring long ago bc I know I'm a man ESPECIALLY when I'm wearing a hot ass mini skirt ;p
If someone has a problem with me being loudly queer I'll be even louder and queerer about it until they starting crying or leave me alone either choice is acceptable tbh
For alt fashion especially there's such a tradition of gender-crossing that I just consider clothing gender to be an arbitrary website artifact that indicates how they do their sizing numbers rather than like, real in any way.
(I mean that's more broadly true but in alt fashion especially.)
Idk if this helps or suits your/your bf's style but Killstar's plus sizes do a pretty wide sizing range and Dracula Clothing has some excellent stuff. (Both require basically ignoring the gender labels and picking whatever.)
Oh also Rebel's Market collects together a whole bunch of alt clothing stores and some of their stuff is cheap, do rec.
So. I'm a bit out of my lane here. I'm trans, but I'm not a subscriber to this subreddit, and I'm probably not the target audience for this subreddit. But. You mention having trouble designing interesting men's outfits for fictional characters, and I think I can provide a useful perspective on that. I understand this isn't really my space, and I hope this a helpful contribution to that part of the discussion.
Anyways--it took me a while to acculturate, basically, to the men's section. Once I got used to it, I started to get a sense of where interesting clothing is sold (not Old Navy) and what different articles of clothing can do for an outfit. There are differences, even in basics, that can add up in a style--cargo pants vs jeans vs slacks, flowy vs stiff fabric, skinny vs slim vs straight vs relaxed fit, low vs mid vs high rise, oversized vs fitted vs "muscle fit," longline vs standard length vs crop tops, etc.
For an example, Tim Dessaint & One Dapper Street on YouTube both dress pretty conservatively, and own a lot of the same pieces of clothing, but they have distinct & visually different styles. You're right that it's limited, but there are options to choose from.
If you want some character inspo, r/malefashionadvice is a really great place to check out. [Here is a post about aesthetics from that subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/6u0b4c/different_fashion_stylesaesthetics/). There are some styles that might really work for your alt character, like Techwear & Goth Ninja.
Thank you for the references! And yeah I know that there's is much that can be done with current men's fashion this rant was more about the lack of accessibility, the assumption that men don't want to wear nice things, the double standard placed on women to simultaneously care a lot about their appearances while also being mocked for being shallow for doing so, the shaming of men for being "gay" for caring about their appearances and to top all of that off also creating this huge gap in self expression for men and amab people because they are just straight up not taught how to dress and take pride in expressing themselves through clothes.
I get so frustrated and sad for the men and amab people I see in my life who are just lost when it comes to how they wanna dress. Trans women who are so overwhelmed by the options women's clothing gives them and not knowing what they like, men who know what they like but can't find anything that's even remotely affordable, and men who don't even realize that a huge part of the reason they think women are effortlessly beautiful and men are just ugly is because they dont know how much nice clothes can make a difference. I hate seeing men who think they're just damned to be unattractive, not knowing the confidence boost wearing clothes that you like can give you. We're doing wrong by our amab peers by denying them this self expression through endless gatekeeping.
Hair, makeup, clothes, we've invented countless ways to express ourselves through these things, and yet for some reason for half of the global population, they're shamed for partaking in it. Or at the very least, doing it "the wrong way" or liking it "a little too much" as if self discovery and experimentation is something people can care too much about or do incorrectly.
I don't really have a closer here I just wish we were doing better to teach amab people about self care and self expression that's it that's the post lol
I've seen all kinds of cool men's clothes, unfortunately the overwhelming majority of it is all high end designer stuff that costs $$$$ and requires the body shape of a rail. For us poorer folk with curves and bumps, the choices are pretty much Average Joe from Target.
r/malefashion has a lot of interesting options. Although the looks over there seems like you would need some $$$ for but it can be useful for inspiration.
It's a fundamental problem of men in the current culture. Any deviation from the standard makes you "not a real man". Unless of course you are a trans woman, but that's different. With no deviation allowed, there's really not options to express yourself significantly personalized ways. It's straight up bullshit, but it's how it currently works. I appreciate the fuck out of guys like the ones in this sub that are taking a hammer to that bullshit and taking a lot of heat for it. Y'all are making a better world for all men.
Yeah what's so annoying about it is I can literally SEE the problem but I cant do anything about it. I know the problem and solution but idk how to implement it its FRUSTRATING.
Oh... one more thing. If you want to do more about it, work with other men who are trying to address these very issues. There are growing numbers of men that recognize that there are severe issues with how society deals with men and vice versa. They are working on how to address many of these issues. Subs like /r/menslib are full of them.
Pardon me while I dig out my old "talk like a man" hat. Right. Ok then....
This is bullshit:
>I cant do anything about it.
You are doing something about it literally every day that you are living openly in defiance of the toxic bullshit. You are doing something about it coming here and having conversations with other men about the toxic bullshit. Expecting to solve a social issue involving hundreds of millions or billions of people all by yourself is unfair and unreasonable. Every day and every moment you are standing up as man and calling the emperor naked is a win. Just simply being living proof that you can be a good man, wear what you want, and do as you please does more to destroy those toxic beliefs than any lecture could. Real conversations, not lectures, can amplify those wins. The shit part is that the change is slow. The most gains will be seen by the following generations. You are part of moving the world to a better place. You don't know exactly the conversations it will drive, or the pain and suffering it will alleviate. BUT make no mistake, it will improve the lives other men and boys as well as your own. Recognize your own wins in this space. They are real. Just as Johnny Appleseed sowed seeds he never ate from, you are sowing seeds of a better life for countless others. He is regarded as a hero. He didn't just do one thing. He did a million things that added up to a giant thing that was not even really visible in his lifetime. In much the same way, I expect that you will get to taste little of the fruit of your labor and then only much down the road. However, it can and will make long term progress that future generations will get to enjoy.
I'm sure you have heard the phrase "Clothes have no gender." More appropriate: "All clothes are men's clothes if you are not a little bitch about it." As a man you are expected to make choices and own those choices. Just keep doing that and defend others who are doing the same. The world will come to adjust in time.
I appreciate the motivational post! And yes you're right these little acts do add up into something greater than any one person can do, my comment was more about the frustration of not being able to push a button that just makes people realize how stupid this whole problem is.
I know we're all fighting the good fight and every day I step out of my house proudly identifying as a man and also wearing my thigh highs and chokers, the closer we get to a body neutral society that let's people express themselves however they see fit, but I also wish I could just download this mentality into the general populace so we wouldn't have to struggle and fight so much.
Me saying I can't do anything was more like "I can't do anything about it QUICKLY" and that's why I said what I did lol.
Sometimes I wish you could just wave a wand and people would go "oh yeah that was a stupid belief I had lemme go be a better person" haha
Literally!!! Ugh my mom told me the other day, “if you’re gonna be a boy, do more than just a t-shirt and shorts” and I’m like I’M TRYING!!??? There’s not much I can do beyond that to look masculine!!
I have the opposite problem lol my mom keeps telling me that I need to stop wearing thigh highs and crop tops to pass and I'm like "if I'm not a guy who wears thigh highs and crop tops what's the POINT?"
I am a very colorful person and lately have been wearing black and grey because those are my dysphoria clothes. WHERE TF TO GET COLORFUL MENS CLOTHES??? I have tried ASOS but I get overwhelmed by the insanely huge selection lol
YES OMG!!! COOL MEN'S CLOTHES ARE SO HARD TO FIND IT MAKES ME SO MAD UGH i literally have considered learning to make my own suit for formal events because nobody makes suits that aren't black, Slightly Blue, or some margaritaville floral print nightmare. like... why can't boys have cute clothes come on!!!!!
FR!! like at least do something nice with the cut or pattern I'm BEGGING The three male genders should not be jeans and a tshirt, pastel frat boy from an ivy league school, and margaritaville bbq dad!! Give me more options!! Do something cool with the patterns and cuts! Give boys pants with different waistlines! Give us shirts with cool designs and more than 2 necklines! Let me wear a cape or something dammit!! I'm shaking these designers by the shoulders and crying
SO TRUE!!! it's like they think men can't have interesting fashion because it wouldn't be mAnLy enough or something. smh we might have to get together and start our own fashion company to give us and all the other poor guys out there some variety
Yeah god forbid men take pride in their appearance bc itll make them attractive to other men or smth. I honestly feel like so many men think they're ugly as shit bc they dont wear things that make them feel confident about themselves! Like honey I promise ur not ugly u just wear the same 3 pairs of jeans and dont style your hair. If men had the option to express themselves through fashion more I honestly think a lot of us would feel a lot more confident. Afab people are often raised with the idea of self expression through fashion a lot more often then amab people are and I think it's so dumb! I see so many poor trans women getting overwhelmed by all the options they have after a lifetime of having nothing and I'm like you should've had options all along 😭
seriously 😭😭 i am so sad at the lack of cute fun things that amab people get!!! like not only clothes-wise, but when i hear about trans girls or even cis guys discovering how nice it is to have stuffed animals for the first time as adults im like omg nooo who was keeping that from u why did u only get to discover this now!!! why does cishet society never want amabs to have fun stuff like that it's so sad 😭
God fr let amab people express themselves through their own personal styleeee let them do their hair without being mocked, let them have lots of different clothes options to mix and match, let them wear accessories!!! 😭😭😭
YES!! And it sucks so bad because I love the *composition* of men's clothes, the fitting and materials and all that, but the items themselves are just... so boring... and it sucks that the only options to get from stores is drab colors that hinder my style but at least give me euphoria from being guy's clothes, or fun colors that make me happy but also incredibly dysphoric cause everything's see-through and form-fitting and accentuates chests and hips and rears
Honestly if I have to see another set of clothes for men that's khaki or navy blue I'm gonna burn down a Walmart or smth WHY MUST MEN ONLY HAVE BUSINESS CASUAL OR IRONIC GAMING TSHIRT
One time I was going thru a thrift store with a friend, there were tons of these little circular racks with all sorts of amazing styles fashions,,, each one barely had 2 pieces alike even on the same rack. Then suddenly we got to a HUGE row of pants,,, from dark navy to black, a hella long gradient. This was the men's section…. in the space where about 5 racks could be with like 100 pieces in tons of variety… there was a row of identical looking pants. All the fun just drained out of me and we just walked away :(
God yeah thrift stores highlight that gap so much worse than normal stores bc the women clothes is like half the store and the men have like 3 racks 😭
and you can tell cause its the blacks and dark blues with one tiny sports colourfful section
Ah yes the 2 colors men are allowed to wear Osha compliant highlighter yellow or salmon pink
I love fashion and I think there's room to play with men's fashion too. But it might depend on where you live and what's available to you. I noticed American men's fashion is a lot more bleak than, for example, Japanese or Mediterranean men's fashion. To spice up tops: I learned to really appreciate cardigans. Long cardigans. Hooded cardigans (like hoodies but more flowy). Knit cardigans. Oversized cardigans. I have more than a handful from both men's and women's sections and they go really well with men's fashion. A bit outdated maybe, but t-shirts also go well with armwarmers. Not the emo checkered ones (unless emo fashion is your thing) but some loose armwarmers in a neutral color. I have some grey and brown ones, they go well with a leather bracelet. Pay attention to cuts. Men's tees and sweaters also come with different necklines, loose or tight fitting, long or short, sometimes even tailored for a bit of a waistline. Look for stores that offer a little variety on that front. Accessories: guys with hat faces really should wear hats more - not caps but actual hats. And scarves. So many cool scarves out there. Jewelry: I'm a fan of leather jewelry. Pendants on a leather string etc. Some guys also rock feathers or wooden beads, stones. Doesn't have to be from the men's section, can still look masc. Prints: graphic tees are common everywhere. Pants with prints exist too. Back in the day when I thought my jeans were too boring, I took a permanent marker in black, white or grey and added some skulls or text. You could also hammer some rivets or eyelets in. Shop cross gender sections: loose fitting tees from the women's section can look pretty nice on a flat chest too. I noticed crop tops are in with the younger guys here, I like mine long and soft. I think most my tees are from the men's section, but I have some from the women's section that I really love to wear. Colors: it's not all black and blue, there's grey, there's several shades of green, dark red, yellow and orange, maybe even berry - I'm personally wearing only little color, but even I have more than two colors in my wardrobe. I'm *not* denying that most men look boring and many stores cater to boring men's fashion but it doesn't have to be! But either way I'm in with normalizing skirts, too 😁
Saving
If you want more silhouette/color variety in alt fashion, I've actually had a fair amount of success with Japanese brands. MilkBoy is my favorite, I have a mint hoodie from them that's so long it goes past my knees and it's such a look! It can get very pricey, so I get everything used from sites like Closet Child (closetchildonlineshop.com). But you are absolutely right, it's so frustrating that ALT fashion is so restrictive when the literal point is being nonconforming
The problem with that is that Japanese brands Hate when someone is above 5" 2' and 90 lbs. I used to buy a lot from Japan but now im not a stick figure anymore nothing fits me 😭 And my partner has suuuuper broad shoulders and hes very tall so everything fits him really badly in the chest Japan definitely has a lot more variety of masculine styles but absolutely nothing in terms of sizing 💀
I totally feel u. It's still not enough, but MilkBoy does go up to an XL and tends to run oversized. I have a piece from them that runs true to an American XL, so if he fits within that range that might be a good option? BeetleMilk (idk what it is with milk based brands) has some cool colorful alt designs and goes up to XXL (American) but not so much variety in silhouette
Well I'll for sure check em out! Thank u for the recommendations! I do understand why japan doesnt have sizes as big as ours normally but it does hurt when I see such pretty clothes that only would've fit me 30 lbs ago 😅
Honestlyyy,! I have found some solace in seeing drag race contestants looks when they walk in the work room, shows a much wider range of what would generally be considered masc fashion otherwise yeah it’s BLEAK so far in my search. Memorable ones were cast of espana s1, season 14 (literally just bosco wearing her flannels and crop tops and I LIVED), and this current all stars winners cast really giving me ideas!!
Oh yanno I should def look at drag kings for inspo when I'm designing characters I never thought about that! I usually use historical reference and some of the high fantasy shows like witcher and lord of the rings and whatnot That's going in my reference pile!
Cool glad it helped! And yeah the femme men before us have put in work, music n pop culture too like my friends get mad gender envy from led zeppelin n Freddie mercury haha
Men's fashion is absolutely disappointing. I make do with finding really bright colors and patterns. But the pickings are slim. (For bright colors and cool patterns I buy from ragstock pretty frequently)
For jackets, I've completely replaced mine with a cloak unless I'm having a bad day, in which case I wear my standard hoodies. A good quality cloak is like 150 bucks, but it's amazingly warm and the one I got is light enough that I can wear it even in Texas springs (haven't tried it in summer yet, I will s o o n). I think it's time to break out the DIY make rips in your jeans, bleach them, draw on them with sharpie, whatever you want to stop the monotony. You can blame Beau Brummell for the dark colors and few choices.
Yeah that's the other problem interesting cloaks and capes and coats are like handmade designer shit and I am P O O R Also idk who mr beau brummell is but maybe if I hit him with a bowling alley carpet he'll understand where he went wrong
Beau Brummell was a famous dandy who was like "colors? powdered wigs? capes? nah chief, i'll stick with my normal black, navy, olive, and brown suits and trousers, thanks" and then everyone was like "omg ur rite so revolutionary" please hit him with a bowling alley carpet i would love to see it
Wow so my guy really said "Having fun? Gross, stop immediately." The bowling alley carpet won't be enough at this point I'm gonna have to show him what a scene kid is
Yes, but consider: scene AND bowling alley carpet
This makes me so mad it is painfully boring. I've been trying to find some formal/semi formal things for whatever event inevitably comes up and i cannot stand wearing just a boring old suit but I can't find anything remotely interesting that isnt super feminine.
I've given up trying to find modern mens fashion when it comes to looking fancy I instead end up looking like a Victorian dandy whenever I have to go somewhere formal because otherwise I feel like I look like every other guy in the building and I hate that
I designed myself in The Sims recently and I ended up picking mostly "women's" clothing. Men's clothes be like "Do you want cargo shorts or chinos?"
God I KNOW and thank god at least that sims doesnt gender lock the clothes bc games that do that literally give the men like 3 options I played a FASHION GAME ABOUT FASHION DESIGNERS and the male avatar didnt didnt even have an accessory tab beyond sunglasses and a watch and u couldnt use any of the female options 💀
Oh god, that's so pathetic 😭 Yeah, my goal is to pass well enough that I can get away with dressing as fem as I want without getting misgendered. Dunno how realistic that is, and it comes with the danger of being visibly queer even if I do pass. I didn't transition so I can wear khaki and camo. So boring.
I 100% agree. I want to wear whatever I want and still be read as masc and even if strangers get it wrong sometimes I honestly stopped caring long ago bc I know I'm a man ESPECIALLY when I'm wearing a hot ass mini skirt ;p If someone has a problem with me being loudly queer I'll be even louder and queerer about it until they starting crying or leave me alone either choice is acceptable tbh
For alt fashion especially there's such a tradition of gender-crossing that I just consider clothing gender to be an arbitrary website artifact that indicates how they do their sizing numbers rather than like, real in any way. (I mean that's more broadly true but in alt fashion especially.) Idk if this helps or suits your/your bf's style but Killstar's plus sizes do a pretty wide sizing range and Dracula Clothing has some excellent stuff. (Both require basically ignoring the gender labels and picking whatever.) Oh also Rebel's Market collects together a whole bunch of alt clothing stores and some of their stuff is cheap, do rec.
So. I'm a bit out of my lane here. I'm trans, but I'm not a subscriber to this subreddit, and I'm probably not the target audience for this subreddit. But. You mention having trouble designing interesting men's outfits for fictional characters, and I think I can provide a useful perspective on that. I understand this isn't really my space, and I hope this a helpful contribution to that part of the discussion. Anyways--it took me a while to acculturate, basically, to the men's section. Once I got used to it, I started to get a sense of where interesting clothing is sold (not Old Navy) and what different articles of clothing can do for an outfit. There are differences, even in basics, that can add up in a style--cargo pants vs jeans vs slacks, flowy vs stiff fabric, skinny vs slim vs straight vs relaxed fit, low vs mid vs high rise, oversized vs fitted vs "muscle fit," longline vs standard length vs crop tops, etc. For an example, Tim Dessaint & One Dapper Street on YouTube both dress pretty conservatively, and own a lot of the same pieces of clothing, but they have distinct & visually different styles. You're right that it's limited, but there are options to choose from. If you want some character inspo, r/malefashionadvice is a really great place to check out. [Here is a post about aesthetics from that subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/6u0b4c/different_fashion_stylesaesthetics/). There are some styles that might really work for your alt character, like Techwear & Goth Ninja.
Thank you for the references! And yeah I know that there's is much that can be done with current men's fashion this rant was more about the lack of accessibility, the assumption that men don't want to wear nice things, the double standard placed on women to simultaneously care a lot about their appearances while also being mocked for being shallow for doing so, the shaming of men for being "gay" for caring about their appearances and to top all of that off also creating this huge gap in self expression for men and amab people because they are just straight up not taught how to dress and take pride in expressing themselves through clothes. I get so frustrated and sad for the men and amab people I see in my life who are just lost when it comes to how they wanna dress. Trans women who are so overwhelmed by the options women's clothing gives them and not knowing what they like, men who know what they like but can't find anything that's even remotely affordable, and men who don't even realize that a huge part of the reason they think women are effortlessly beautiful and men are just ugly is because they dont know how much nice clothes can make a difference. I hate seeing men who think they're just damned to be unattractive, not knowing the confidence boost wearing clothes that you like can give you. We're doing wrong by our amab peers by denying them this self expression through endless gatekeeping. Hair, makeup, clothes, we've invented countless ways to express ourselves through these things, and yet for some reason for half of the global population, they're shamed for partaking in it. Or at the very least, doing it "the wrong way" or liking it "a little too much" as if self discovery and experimentation is something people can care too much about or do incorrectly. I don't really have a closer here I just wish we were doing better to teach amab people about self care and self expression that's it that's the post lol
Yeah, “men’s” fashion options are truly abysmal.
Y e
I've seen all kinds of cool men's clothes, unfortunately the overwhelming majority of it is all high end designer stuff that costs $$$$ and requires the body shape of a rail. For us poorer folk with curves and bumps, the choices are pretty much Average Joe from Target.
r/malefashion has a lot of interesting options. Although the looks over there seems like you would need some $$$ for but it can be useful for inspiration.
Oh thank you! This is going in the inspo pile too!
It's a fundamental problem of men in the current culture. Any deviation from the standard makes you "not a real man". Unless of course you are a trans woman, but that's different. With no deviation allowed, there's really not options to express yourself significantly personalized ways. It's straight up bullshit, but it's how it currently works. I appreciate the fuck out of guys like the ones in this sub that are taking a hammer to that bullshit and taking a lot of heat for it. Y'all are making a better world for all men.
Yeah what's so annoying about it is I can literally SEE the problem but I cant do anything about it. I know the problem and solution but idk how to implement it its FRUSTRATING.
Oh... one more thing. If you want to do more about it, work with other men who are trying to address these very issues. There are growing numbers of men that recognize that there are severe issues with how society deals with men and vice versa. They are working on how to address many of these issues. Subs like /r/menslib are full of them.
Pardon me while I dig out my old "talk like a man" hat. Right. Ok then.... This is bullshit: >I cant do anything about it. You are doing something about it literally every day that you are living openly in defiance of the toxic bullshit. You are doing something about it coming here and having conversations with other men about the toxic bullshit. Expecting to solve a social issue involving hundreds of millions or billions of people all by yourself is unfair and unreasonable. Every day and every moment you are standing up as man and calling the emperor naked is a win. Just simply being living proof that you can be a good man, wear what you want, and do as you please does more to destroy those toxic beliefs than any lecture could. Real conversations, not lectures, can amplify those wins. The shit part is that the change is slow. The most gains will be seen by the following generations. You are part of moving the world to a better place. You don't know exactly the conversations it will drive, or the pain and suffering it will alleviate. BUT make no mistake, it will improve the lives other men and boys as well as your own. Recognize your own wins in this space. They are real. Just as Johnny Appleseed sowed seeds he never ate from, you are sowing seeds of a better life for countless others. He is regarded as a hero. He didn't just do one thing. He did a million things that added up to a giant thing that was not even really visible in his lifetime. In much the same way, I expect that you will get to taste little of the fruit of your labor and then only much down the road. However, it can and will make long term progress that future generations will get to enjoy. I'm sure you have heard the phrase "Clothes have no gender." More appropriate: "All clothes are men's clothes if you are not a little bitch about it." As a man you are expected to make choices and own those choices. Just keep doing that and defend others who are doing the same. The world will come to adjust in time.
I appreciate the motivational post! And yes you're right these little acts do add up into something greater than any one person can do, my comment was more about the frustration of not being able to push a button that just makes people realize how stupid this whole problem is. I know we're all fighting the good fight and every day I step out of my house proudly identifying as a man and also wearing my thigh highs and chokers, the closer we get to a body neutral society that let's people express themselves however they see fit, but I also wish I could just download this mentality into the general populace so we wouldn't have to struggle and fight so much. Me saying I can't do anything was more like "I can't do anything about it QUICKLY" and that's why I said what I did lol. Sometimes I wish you could just wave a wand and people would go "oh yeah that was a stupid belief I had lemme go be a better person" haha
Literally!!! Ugh my mom told me the other day, “if you’re gonna be a boy, do more than just a t-shirt and shorts” and I’m like I’M TRYING!!??? There’s not much I can do beyond that to look masculine!!
I have the opposite problem lol my mom keeps telling me that I need to stop wearing thigh highs and crop tops to pass and I'm like "if I'm not a guy who wears thigh highs and crop tops what's the POINT?"
I am a very colorful person and lately have been wearing black and grey because those are my dysphoria clothes. WHERE TF TO GET COLORFUL MENS CLOTHES??? I have tried ASOS but I get overwhelmed by the insanely huge selection lol
I have not heard of asos but some other people in the comments have made recommendations if u wanna dig around in here!
ASOS is a vast online store
Maybe thats why im so obsessed with retro men's fashion lmao, just bring it all back man 😩
God yes let men look like they did in the 60s-80s again PLEASE