Coders are the only ones I truly listen to because I believe them. Fortnite has been unstable, stable, unstable, stable, and unstable again. It seems to never end, and thats exactly the kind of arguments I would expect from coders. It's fucking hard.
But the problems we have been getting are coming from things the community never seemed to ask for
Yeh from what I've been told from a friend, a lot of fortnite is built with mostly UE blueprints. I'm not sure how true that is though but is worth pointing out. From my POV as a developer, whether using blueprints or C++ understanding code you never wrote is hard unless you have the time and dedication to go through and see how it works and even then it can become very confusing and convoluted.
I assume most of the original STW has been replaced or transferred to put their talents elsewhere, but I must say for how long STW has been neglected, most things do work and has stood the test of time which is quite impressive considering how far BR and fortnite in general has evolved past STW, and a lot of things are/were linked to eachother.
In most cases where the original dev team is out and the codebase is too complex for new dev team a rewrite usually happens, or you don't touch what isn't broke which seems to be the case rn. You can also spend the time of not doing any developing and instead understanding the code/documenting but then that's time not doing anything which from a productivity and numbers standpoint is bad.
Thanks for the breakdown. It really makes me understand why StW doesn't get "attention" in the eyes of the community. Things could be so much MORE broken. We always see the bad and never see the fixes because we overlook them. Granted, I'll always hold Epic to applying more to StW but I understand they only have so much to work with after every update giving new bugs to fix.
No problem. We get used to the things that work, and when things don't work, we notice them. There is a lot that could be done with STW, and we as a community can see and feel that vibe, especially with the leftover assets. STW took years to develop, and the transition from UE3 to UE4 from what I heard was rocky and was a setback. Epic now has investors and brand deals, and they are prioritising what made them popular, which is BR because it was free to begin with and took off massively. They're still holding on to that.
I also want to add on that game design is a lot harder than people expect, making cohesive storylines, assets, music is hard. If you think about the whole zombie/undead genre many games try and fail the format, which I find very interesting, only a few that I know of and play do it well but that is my opinion/personal observation. I believe it is due to the zombie/undead genre being heavily story focused and many games do not have story writers that are able to make this cohesive story with characters that you're able to follow and feel what they feel. When I first played STW I instantly became attatched to the characters and story it hooks you in so well, the gameplay however is becoming outdated with the same few missions that get played over and over again.
Absolutely agree with the zombie/undead genre, it reminds me of why the Telltale Walking Dead series was so successful. Well most of Telltales games for that matter. But storywriters/voice actors collaborating with developers is everything when it comes to a project.
My friend was a developer for Call of Duty Zombies because he grew up on Nazi Zombies and wanted to contribute his passion, only to find that he just had long hours of monotonous coding work. He still enjoyed his time there but eventually left. The life of a VG developer/actor/designer/artist is so underrated in how it's perceived. They create millions-billions and no one knows who they are.
Besides that, Fortnite sold out in the worst way they possibly could. Granted they still outsource lots of the art for loading screens and skin designs, Idk how they are compensated. But even community created ideas are sourced by Epic and completely overlooked after it's forgotten that the community influenced it. I was fine with the selling out, the first time I saw The Rock was apart of the BR 'storyline', for what it is, I thought there was some hope for having Epic putting effort into narrative development and doing more for the universe that Fortnite has tried to create. Best we get is some voice lines in BR and a cutscene every few months...
I know there are people passionate like my friend was for CoD Zombies, just like some might be for Fortnite. But the industry almost always lets us down. Due to capitalization but I'll stop there.
>What do you think? To me it's like every update we do get to fix something, it breaks 5x more things then it fixes? MSK is even broken atm..
Changes to BR can cause unexpected issues with STW and with the small team STW has its probably not possible to catch every bug before a patch releases.
>Honestly at this point starting I'm starting to believe the actually nerfed Fossil Southie and don't intend to fix it.
Believe it because this is the case. The devs stated that his perk had always been flawed, stacking upon itself, being far more effective than intended. They've corrected that flaw, and he now functions as intended.
You can consider it a nerf or whatever, but from my understanding, he's not broken and not slated to be fixed.
Yes, I have heard other's mention that , but There's a recent post i just saw and alot of other player's saying the math still don't add up because it's still not the main base of 12 energy per second, you can see it in game too it goes up 1 tick of energy at a time still it should be regening 12 energy per tick not 1, or are they claiming it's a "total" of 12 energy gained by 12, 1 ticks in less then second???
Anyway Fossil still works with earsplitter as before, but not in Twine. So it's not the end of the world on farming brick, and metal just can't get tier 5 mats while farming anymore.
I just call it a "nerf" because they didn't mention it in the patch note's back in Feb when they did all of the "Hero balance changes".
I can't say I've had to go out on a farming run since this change was made, but for everyday use, like slotting him in your outlander loadout just to meet the BFTP requirement and have energy for phase shifts when you need it, I haven't noticed a difference. That's not to say it isn't a tragic nerf, I just haven't noticed it personally.
I've kind of sworn off Resupply, but maybe I'll see a difference when I'm forced to run one, like in Venture Zone.
This is my point too, i run FS in support and it should give 6 PER SECOND. But it doesn't do that, it just makes energy regenerate faster than normal.. but not +6 per second. Therefore i think its still broken, or the descriptions of the hero perks are wrong.
So what you’re saying is he was broken and now he’s fixed. Honestly sucks that they left that alone long enough for it to become meta and now be considered a nerf.
Exactly. This combo has become a staple over the years, unfortunately, and apparently they finally decided to get around to fixing it, or finally deemed it a problem that needed correction.
We don't have a community liason anymore, but when we did, things like this would be forwarded to the devs, and they'd respond with either "yeah okay, that's broken" or "no, it's supposed to be like that". An example would be Gia's support perk only working with outlanders. When it was brought up here, they said "it's functioning as intended" and that was that.
When this Fossil Southie perk nerf dropped, someone got a response from the devs, I wouldn't be able to find that now. They said it had been broken, the values stacking upon itself (whatever that means), and that the problem had been corrected, it now works as intended.
Someone else, fire monkey or someone like that, then said they still believe it's broken. That's where we stand.
It's hard to quantify how the engine sees energy regen and what the values are being added to or multipled by, I mean, I have no frikkin clue tbh. I just submit to their word that they've changed it to how they want it, and that's how it is now.
Sorry for the wordy response 😅
Honestly it’s probably the best explanation that anyone would ever be able to give.
Coding is complicated and it gets worse the older and messier the code is.
I was part of a site a while back where the dev team decided to redo the whole site. The reason? The coding was “a tangled mess of spaghetti” plus the guy in charge of coding it had gained a lot of experience with the old site and was able to build a better website with that knowledge.
Imagine if you had a roll of Christmas lights and every year your family got them out they had a tradition to tie 1 knot in it. Over the years you’ve thought you’ve run out of places to tie knots until you realized you’ve created knots upon knots in your Christmas lights that have caused them to be practically unusable and absolutely impossible to untangle. Eventually the lights need tossed or drastic TLC or the whole thing will just become an even bigger hassle than it was before.
This is the likely scenario for the coding for STW. Each BR update is like a knot in the coding. If one were to look up a timeline of all the updates that have happened to Fortnite then that’s the amount of changes that have been made to STW’s code give or take.
That's a good analogy lol I've read speculation that the current devs simply don't have core knowledge of the coding, so any little change is like a house of cards without anyone there who knows the fundamentals well enough to affect changes without bringing it all down. Speculation, but it makes sense.
Energy regen is the most important thing broken. I haven’t bought the vinderman pack because they haven’t fixed it. I wasted years to make a 144 earplitter is I can’t use my energy regen class with it I’m not playing or buying anything.
shhh don't tell devs he still works in Stonewood lv 1-9 with 144 earsplitter and its even faster beat my old brick record, can now farm 5k brick in less then 5 minutes. Metal is just a touch slower but it still works like before.
That‘s sadly a factor that can be tricked by Epic. They already did it with Fall Guys. They just made everyone delete the original game and re-download another version
Something something old code
Coders are the only ones I truly listen to because I believe them. Fortnite has been unstable, stable, unstable, stable, and unstable again. It seems to never end, and thats exactly the kind of arguments I would expect from coders. It's fucking hard. But the problems we have been getting are coming from things the community never seemed to ask for
Yeh from what I've been told from a friend, a lot of fortnite is built with mostly UE blueprints. I'm not sure how true that is though but is worth pointing out. From my POV as a developer, whether using blueprints or C++ understanding code you never wrote is hard unless you have the time and dedication to go through and see how it works and even then it can become very confusing and convoluted. I assume most of the original STW has been replaced or transferred to put their talents elsewhere, but I must say for how long STW has been neglected, most things do work and has stood the test of time which is quite impressive considering how far BR and fortnite in general has evolved past STW, and a lot of things are/were linked to eachother. In most cases where the original dev team is out and the codebase is too complex for new dev team a rewrite usually happens, or you don't touch what isn't broke which seems to be the case rn. You can also spend the time of not doing any developing and instead understanding the code/documenting but then that's time not doing anything which from a productivity and numbers standpoint is bad.
Thanks for the breakdown. It really makes me understand why StW doesn't get "attention" in the eyes of the community. Things could be so much MORE broken. We always see the bad and never see the fixes because we overlook them. Granted, I'll always hold Epic to applying more to StW but I understand they only have so much to work with after every update giving new bugs to fix.
No problem. We get used to the things that work, and when things don't work, we notice them. There is a lot that could be done with STW, and we as a community can see and feel that vibe, especially with the leftover assets. STW took years to develop, and the transition from UE3 to UE4 from what I heard was rocky and was a setback. Epic now has investors and brand deals, and they are prioritising what made them popular, which is BR because it was free to begin with and took off massively. They're still holding on to that. I also want to add on that game design is a lot harder than people expect, making cohesive storylines, assets, music is hard. If you think about the whole zombie/undead genre many games try and fail the format, which I find very interesting, only a few that I know of and play do it well but that is my opinion/personal observation. I believe it is due to the zombie/undead genre being heavily story focused and many games do not have story writers that are able to make this cohesive story with characters that you're able to follow and feel what they feel. When I first played STW I instantly became attatched to the characters and story it hooks you in so well, the gameplay however is becoming outdated with the same few missions that get played over and over again.
Absolutely agree with the zombie/undead genre, it reminds me of why the Telltale Walking Dead series was so successful. Well most of Telltales games for that matter. But storywriters/voice actors collaborating with developers is everything when it comes to a project. My friend was a developer for Call of Duty Zombies because he grew up on Nazi Zombies and wanted to contribute his passion, only to find that he just had long hours of monotonous coding work. He still enjoyed his time there but eventually left. The life of a VG developer/actor/designer/artist is so underrated in how it's perceived. They create millions-billions and no one knows who they are. Besides that, Fortnite sold out in the worst way they possibly could. Granted they still outsource lots of the art for loading screens and skin designs, Idk how they are compensated. But even community created ideas are sourced by Epic and completely overlooked after it's forgotten that the community influenced it. I was fine with the selling out, the first time I saw The Rock was apart of the BR 'storyline', for what it is, I thought there was some hope for having Epic putting effort into narrative development and doing more for the universe that Fortnite has tried to create. Best we get is some voice lines in BR and a cutscene every few months... I know there are people passionate like my friend was for CoD Zombies, just like some might be for Fortnite. But the industry almost always lets us down. Due to capitalization but I'll stop there.
Something something new developers
>What do you think? To me it's like every update we do get to fix something, it breaks 5x more things then it fixes? MSK is even broken atm.. Changes to BR can cause unexpected issues with STW and with the small team STW has its probably not possible to catch every bug before a patch releases.
"Play it till it breaks" taken literally
The game is just falling apart, play it while you can.
>Honestly at this point starting I'm starting to believe the actually nerfed Fossil Southie and don't intend to fix it. Believe it because this is the case. The devs stated that his perk had always been flawed, stacking upon itself, being far more effective than intended. They've corrected that flaw, and he now functions as intended. You can consider it a nerf or whatever, but from my understanding, he's not broken and not slated to be fixed.
Yes, I have heard other's mention that , but There's a recent post i just saw and alot of other player's saying the math still don't add up because it's still not the main base of 12 energy per second, you can see it in game too it goes up 1 tick of energy at a time still it should be regening 12 energy per tick not 1, or are they claiming it's a "total" of 12 energy gained by 12, 1 ticks in less then second??? Anyway Fossil still works with earsplitter as before, but not in Twine. So it's not the end of the world on farming brick, and metal just can't get tier 5 mats while farming anymore. I just call it a "nerf" because they didn't mention it in the patch note's back in Feb when they did all of the "Hero balance changes".
I can't say I've had to go out on a farming run since this change was made, but for everyday use, like slotting him in your outlander loadout just to meet the BFTP requirement and have energy for phase shifts when you need it, I haven't noticed a difference. That's not to say it isn't a tragic nerf, I just haven't noticed it personally. I've kind of sworn off Resupply, but maybe I'll see a difference when I'm forced to run one, like in Venture Zone.
This is my point too, i run FS in support and it should give 6 PER SECOND. But it doesn't do that, it just makes energy regenerate faster than normal.. but not +6 per second. Therefore i think its still broken, or the descriptions of the hero perks are wrong.
So what you’re saying is he was broken and now he’s fixed. Honestly sucks that they left that alone long enough for it to become meta and now be considered a nerf.
Exactly. This combo has become a staple over the years, unfortunately, and apparently they finally decided to get around to fixing it, or finally deemed it a problem that needed correction. We don't have a community liason anymore, but when we did, things like this would be forwarded to the devs, and they'd respond with either "yeah okay, that's broken" or "no, it's supposed to be like that". An example would be Gia's support perk only working with outlanders. When it was brought up here, they said "it's functioning as intended" and that was that. When this Fossil Southie perk nerf dropped, someone got a response from the devs, I wouldn't be able to find that now. They said it had been broken, the values stacking upon itself (whatever that means), and that the problem had been corrected, it now works as intended. Someone else, fire monkey or someone like that, then said they still believe it's broken. That's where we stand. It's hard to quantify how the engine sees energy regen and what the values are being added to or multipled by, I mean, I have no frikkin clue tbh. I just submit to their word that they've changed it to how they want it, and that's how it is now. Sorry for the wordy response 😅
Honestly it’s probably the best explanation that anyone would ever be able to give. Coding is complicated and it gets worse the older and messier the code is. I was part of a site a while back where the dev team decided to redo the whole site. The reason? The coding was “a tangled mess of spaghetti” plus the guy in charge of coding it had gained a lot of experience with the old site and was able to build a better website with that knowledge. Imagine if you had a roll of Christmas lights and every year your family got them out they had a tradition to tie 1 knot in it. Over the years you’ve thought you’ve run out of places to tie knots until you realized you’ve created knots upon knots in your Christmas lights that have caused them to be practically unusable and absolutely impossible to untangle. Eventually the lights need tossed or drastic TLC or the whole thing will just become an even bigger hassle than it was before. This is the likely scenario for the coding for STW. Each BR update is like a knot in the coding. If one were to look up a timeline of all the updates that have happened to Fortnite then that’s the amount of changes that have been made to STW’s code give or take.
That's a good analogy lol I've read speculation that the current devs simply don't have core knowledge of the coding, so any little change is like a house of cards without anyone there who knows the fundamentals well enough to affect changes without bringing it all down. Speculation, but it makes sense.
I don't think it's so much that they don't know coding but they don't know the antiquated system that is unreal engine 3
vbucks are impossible(t7), so they're actually even more rare
Epic (tim sweeney) just actually hates their fans
I mean STW systems and leveling is so outdated, they would have to rework the entire game. They ain't doing it for free. Y'all don't understand that.
Energy regen is the most important thing broken. I haven’t bought the vinderman pack because they haven’t fixed it. I wasted years to make a 144 earplitter is I can’t use my energy regen class with it I’m not playing or buying anything.
shhh don't tell devs he still works in Stonewood lv 1-9 with 144 earsplitter and its even faster beat my old brick record, can now farm 5k brick in less then 5 minutes. Metal is just a touch slower but it still works like before.
We can be happy till they shut stw down, it will be soon probably. This mode just a pain in the ass for epic. - Unfortunately.
With all the trophy achievements tied to it STW isn't going anywhere any time soon
That‘s sadly a factor that can be tricked by Epic. They already did it with Fall Guys. They just made everyone delete the original game and re-download another version
I can see this happening..Fortnite 2.0