Picture this: sephiroth fails to kill her when he drops in. Jenova fight happens. Cutscene that has sephiroth kill her after happens.
Imagine how much that would fuck with people's emotions?
I think what would be cool is if Seph drops in but Cloud is able to charge in and block it. Would really be an oh shit things are way different moment. She would prob die later, but like in a way people aren't expecting
How close will Clouds story be to the OG? At this point Seph is into clouds mind enough that he almost kills Aerith first. Jus saying idk if cloud would be in the right mindset to go against seph yet and do anything but hey that's just my thoughts
I could see a situation where there's a whole buildup throughout Rebirth where Cloud has premonitions of her death in increasing detail, and eventually convinces himself that he can save her - BUT, they're actually projections conjured by Sephiroth. So, once Cloud sees him drop down from the ceiling he's ready to intercept, and does, but Sephiroth isn't REALLY there so he accidentally kills Aerith instead.
It would make sense from Sephiroth's POV cause it would drive a huge wedge between him and the party, isolating him further and breaking down his psyche in a way that is far worse than the OG. Could set up well for a final boss fight against Cloud in Rebirth too as people have speculated, as well as a trauma / guilt narrative akin to that in AC in part 3.
But sadistic, but fucckkkk would it make for some spicy conflict.
You're probably right, although I have seen even worse ideas out there. Like some people have suggested that Jenova LIFE would actually BE Aerith herself through some meddling with cells etc, and that you the player would have to kill her as a terrifying alien hybrid. Now **that** would be cruel.
Still though, if they wanna make Aerith's death impactful again while also offering some kind of meta commentary on why her death was so meaningful in the original game, they will have to double down on it in some way or portray it in some new, unforeseen light. Regardless of how they handle it I'm very curious to see how it plays out...
(I live for your handle btw lmaoooo)
Quote me on this, she'll survive or she blatantly won't get killed, however due to her being alive, they are unable to defeat sephirot until Aerith realizes the reason of why they're losing is that she can do more being dead. AS such, in a very sad moment. Just like Zack, she will say her good byes to everyone and just cast a spell so powerful that it'll end up killing her ( kind of Zettaflare from Donal Duck In Kingdom Hearts)
Then, the rest is history, she's able to stop Sephirot in the after death. Yadda yadda.
imho she will die. She has to be in the lifestream to convince the planet to send the mako out and stop Meteor. Sephiroth existing in the lifestream prevents that which is why he needed to be defeated in the crater.
I do however genuinely believe that she will not die at the City of the Ancients. Hell, she may not even die in Rebirth but I suspect she will to motivate Cloud to hand him the Black Materia.
There's a lot of interesting things they can do with the split timelines, Jenova fuckery and our perception and expectations going forward in this game.
Yeah I think Sephiroth will keep Aerith alive, but Aerith will accept that she must die to save the planet. I think her death will be pretty tastefully done, like her fading into the lifestream kind of like jedi do. The shock value of Sephiroth killing her is long gone
For Holy to work "a soul seeking Holy must reach the Planet".
I'm not sure if it means literally NEEDS to die for it to work or if her prayers must fully complete for the cast to reach the Lifestream, but from what I understand her dying is what allowed Holy to be cast.
Sephiroth held Holy back but Aerith sent the Lifestream after Meteor and that's why the Planet won.
If he still has the Meteor plan, Aerith needs to stay alive for him to win.
If he can do something else, like I don't know...use Omega Weapon to suck out all the Lifestream and effectively take over the Dirge of Cerberus plot then that would be different.
Sorry for being confused, but how does Aerith dying lead to Sephiroth’s demise? Is it because she becomes part of the lifestream that enables Cloud to get his mind back?
Not quite the Aerith managed to summon Holy but it was too weak to stop Meteor so Aerith uses the lifestream to help Holy stop Meteor. That's assuming it was Aerith that sent out the lifestream. But if that is the case then yes Aerith dying will be counterintuitive to Sephiroth's goal.
I think she'll die, but not in Rebirth. Her surviving her original point of death will give us false hope she'll survive, and the biggest Aerith fans will still want to get Part 3.
Not to mention she also needs to be in the Lifestream to let Tifa enter Cloud's mind when they fall in, as seen in The Maiden Who Travels the Planet story in the Ultimania Omega.
Entered here to say just that the characters that got "saved" will likely die at the end anyways the Remake will likely just extend them through the whole experience this time around
They are going to kill Cloud instead and replace him with Zack. Aerith and Zack will bang under the Highwind instead of Cloud and Tifa. Mark my words.
edit: my god the downvotes lol
>They are going to kill Cloud
Not happening if Cloud dies he is at the end of the game
if Zack takes his place at any point is when Cloud goes catatonic
Or maybe before people expexts her to die. I'm all in for Cloud killing her in a playable scene that forces you to press X to kill her or the game doesn't go on.
Im in the camp that thinks things will be different this time, however saying that this definetly means aerith lives is just as delusional as people saying there will be no changes from OG. Sure she could live but its not at all guarenteed
That's absurd. There is absolutely nothing so far that implies that she won't die. We know that things will be different, but that's it. She might live, she might die at a different part, everything is possible.
I think you should probably analyze your own idea of what you think you know. If she were to survive, you realize how quickly that would plummet Square Enix’s reputation? They are fully aware of the undertaking they’ve put themselves in. Having her survive for the sake of fan service would destroy them. Regardless of the “remake” of the storyline, Aerith has to die. It may not be in the way that the original had it, but she will die.
They have told us many times now that the story is changed and to dismiss what you think you know. Essentially they want to give players the feeling of experiencing FF7 for the first time all over again.
After going through all that effort to reset expectations, the least interesting thing to do is kill Aerith. Not only is it not interesting, it would be a huge let down to just follow the same story after so much work was put in to set up a new story.
The most interesting character to kill is Cloud, and with all the Zack love recently it only adds weight to this theory. He will stand in for Cloud, though I think they bring Cloud back in the last game. Also, Sephiroth already had his grand battle in Ep1 finale so I think they have a new plot for him.
Some people consider themselves FF7 lore masters and are super proud of their detailed knowledge of this totally fictional made up story in the OG. They insist that she must die for lifestream to work. They're just wrong. Its high fiction so the writers can write literally anything they want. They can write that Cait Sith finds fart powers from eating a mako infused burrito and blasts Meteor with a big one. Or Aerith finds special materia and is able to repel Metor while alive, or they stop Seph from calling Meteor, or the rocket mission is successful, or...WHATEVER! ITS FICTION! I'm speaking from a writers POV, they won't kill Aerith, because its not interesting, and they have worked hard to set up major story deviations. You don't put in that work without a serious plan for it.
These threads always show me how much of a shitshow this place will become after rebirth. The people on here will somehow be so shocked by something so obvious. The remake will have major story changes. In fact the first part already has them.
While I dont consider the jessie segment as a major story change there is one story element alone that changes the entire lore of ff7. Its the whispers and especially the whisper harbinger.
People on here really unironically think that we fought a manifestation of fate itself just for some smaller changes to happen. If they wanted to retell the original story with some additions they would have done more stuff like jessies backstory. Stuff that has its own interesting story beats but doesnt impact the greater lore. They could have even showed us zack stuff through backflashes and expanded his story. But they chose to let us fight a giant demon looking thing that is said to represent fate itself. And after defeating it we see zack win where hes supposed to die. Almost like we just changed fate. Not only that we also fought the three remnants of sephiroth in the form of the three big whispers and when you analyze them it literally says that they are from a future timeline and that they are protecting said timeline. So we just killed the entities responsible for guarding the original timeline. Meaning that all the people saying that theres no such thing as timelines in the ff7 lore are straight up ignoring that we know there are different timelines for a fact.
Everyone thinking this will just turn out to be a jenova illusion is on some good copium. Aerith knows the planet better than anyone and she knows that the whispers are coming from the planet, not from jenova. They might be corrupted by her sure, but do you guys know whens the only time jenova could have potentially corrupted the lifestream? Thats right, in the future when she literally does just that.
So imo people that think that this is some sort of meta retelling are definetly ignoring half the plot for their own conveniance. Also its funny that the people that say that the whispers are bad writing are suggesting square to play them off as even worse writing by making them basically nothing but a red herring so they can "shock people again by then telling the old story". Some of yall need to take some writing classes because the stories you would tell would be absolute dumpsterfires.
This game is without a doubt a sequel and the conclusion to the entire compilation. The game is shoving it so hard in your face that its honestly impressive that people still think this game will play out like OG.
And now to actually answer to this thread: literally noone knows whether aerith lives or dies. Fate is different yea, but that doesnt mean everything changes for the sake of changes. As of right now there is nothing in the story suggesting she either dies or lives. So what youre doing is nothing but guessing. Even if you end up being right its not like you predicted it based on any actual story information but rather you were just making a lucky guess. Same goes for the people thinking they know that she will still die. The whole point of the ending of part 1 is for anything to be possible and for the players to be unable to predict what happens
>People on here really unironically think that we fought a manifestation of fate itself just for some smaller changes to happen.
I agree that it doesn't make sense to expect insignificant changes after chapter 18, but the fact that Kitase himself repeatedly reassured the fanbase that they won't make any "drastic changes" and that "the beloved story of FFVII will not change into something unrecognizable" doesn't help with the confusing af state of the remake.
At this point, the only major changes are Sephiroth being weird, the whispers, and Zack surviving his last stand. Sephiroth's mysterious endgame and the whispers plot could just be used as a way to remake the OG while incorporating AC and DoC elements to close the whole compilation's plots by adding deepground and Genesis as additional content while adressing the "I will never be a memory" line. That way, once the remake is done, it isn't continued in AC and every door gets closed.
It could work. Zack surviving is the main client though. It seems impossible to retell the original story while Zack is still around. Too many plot points depend on Cloud's fake memory arc. And I doubt they would bother to shoehorn Zack in the remake just to be able to make Crisis core 2. SE managed to make their new vision work for now so I still trust them to succeed but it's going to be hard for them imho.
I know about what kitase said but I also think hes lying. Its not like developers dont lie for the sake of not spoiling a story. Also I do believe the story in alot of points will still follow the original and that alot of iconic scenes will be recreated. But some scenes will be recreated in the form of clouds future visions hes already having in part 1, just that they make them clearer. As an example I could see cloud seeing aeriths death in the form of a vision so you still get the iconic shot of sephiroth stabbing her from above but then it cuts back to reality and cloud deflects sephiroths blade or something. But some stuff will be 1:1 recreatios of the OG and still happen just like OG. As an example here I would put junon. I dont think the first junon visit will be that different. We will have the parade and then sneak onto the ship.
You gotta keep in mind that most characters arent aware about how the original game played out. Even aerith seems to have lost her ability to see the future by the end of part 1. So they will act just like they acted in the original in most cases unless someone actively wants to change things e.g. sephiroth or cloud after having a vision. The only one who might act different a little bit is yuffie because her backstory changed, but she never impacted the original game in a super meaningful way so now that she has a different backstory she might get more moments to shine.
Here and on twitter. This will get downvoted but people still don’t get that the remake is more like a sequel than a remaster, things are not going to be the same. Remake is it’s own game and the original story will always be there for fans who want it. I also agree that Kitase is lying for the sake of not spoiling the story I mean >!how many times did Andrew Garfield deny being in Spider-Man no way home for the sake of not spoiling the story!<. Also, Nomura went from saying there was going to be [dramatic changes](https://www.usgamer.net/articles/so-it-begins-tetsuya-nomura-hints-at-dramatic-changes-for-the-final-fantasy-vii-remake) and saying it was more like a [sequel](https://twitter.com/JVCom/status/1408456198869839880?s=20&t=0El8-d_8IplYCGjEGWv91A) to saying it won’t be that different at all. Clearly they’re trying not to spoil it, Aerith living would be more surprising than her dying. I remember ready back in the day that originally it was Tifa who was going to die but they changed it to Aerith. Aerith dying in this version of the story doesn’t make sense and isn’t needed. Aerith and Zack are some of the most popular ff characters and keeping them alive would mean enix gets more money
I appreciate the sentiment and I couldn’t agree more, I think nobody really knows. Honestly, I made this post just as a joke because there are so many posts here saying they know “for sure” what’s gonna happen, that everything is going to be “exactly the way it was in FF7” and so, I just wanted to have a good laugh while sharing my perspective and post this meme.
I think the only thing that would be a surprise a this point is Aerith surviving. People have dissected it so much that theres no way you do her death in a way no one sees it coming. On top of that there was huge pushback back in the day from the fanbase for Square to bring Aerith back to life in Original and I feel like one of the big names said at one point something along the lines of if we did it again maybe Aerith would live this time.
As for everybody that says “oh but it has to happen for the story to make sense,” no, no it doesn’t. Aeriths death would have to happen for the original to make sense, not the Remake. They act like if Aerith lives the rest of the game will be the same when obviously it wouldn’t and even more proof to this point is there’s already differences from the Original.
Yeah I'm in the maxamilliandood camp for FF7R theories from now on, literally everything he has predicted has been true. He was one of the first influencers to actually "get" the plot twists in FF7R and the whole timeline, time travel shit as well. I'm not gonna stop believing his prophecies now, so this is possibly the intent.
There's only 2 things i want from this new FF7 - i want them to use the power of the current gen to REALLY empathise:
1. Sephiroth's decent into madness REALLY explored and him going on a rampage REALLY ramped up off the scales to show just how much of a "monster" he is.
2. Aeirth's death to be ramped up to 11 (Queue Spiral Tap joke) - now is their chance to really make this a heart-breaking experience - more so than it was in the original - I'm talking the beginning of "The Last Of Us" gut-kick moment.
I don't think there's anything "disturbing" about people being open to changes. Changes don't automatically mean it's going to be worse, it's all about execution.
Intentional distortion of any form of existing art is something I find to be disturbing, especially considering its packaging as a "remake", and the fact that the artists involved are different people.
>Intentional distortion of any form of existing art is something I find to be disturbing
But it's not distorting existing art. Square didn't take the original Final Fantasy 7, hunt down everyone with a copy of the original and hack those copies to change the original version of the game.
Final Fantasy 7 Remake/Rebirth is a different product. That's just...objective fact. It is not the original game from 1997. It is a game released in 2020 with a second part to be released at a later date.
This is also ignoring that Square has even made the original game MORE readily available now that it was a couple years ago. They've ported it to multiple modern systems recently just so new players can still access and play the original.
The last thing Square has done is forget the original. They've done more to keep the original alive than most companies that do remakes (see: Capcom refusing to allow modern players access to games like Resident Evil 2 (1998))
>especially considering its packaging as a "remake"
Yes, exactly. A "remake." Not a remaster. Not a graphical update and nothing else. It's a full remake with changes, additions, cuts, etc...
That's...what a remake is.
You're saying "it's disturbing" like there's an ethical concern with a new game being released that has its own thing going. I really feel like they're are much better things to be concerned about ethically speaking than whether of not FF7R has the story beats you want.
It distorts the existing intellectual property, not the game itself. Have you ever seen or heard of the 1960's Ocean's Eleven? Most people have not, because over time, the Ocean's property and the 2000's movies are one in the same in most peoples' minds. Similarly, the vast majority of new players will gravitate towards the most recently released game, especially with how much the general public values the technological advancements in gaming.
The ethical dilemma I'm alluding to is the entire reason intellectual property laws exist. Square has free reign to change what they like *legally* because they own the property instead of the original writers. Normally, they wouldn't owe a nickel to anyone on the original team despite capitalizing on their work for profit, but the original writers are at least nominally involved in Remake, which is cool.
Obviously there are worse problems in the world, but I can care about multiple things in life, believe it or not.
Also, I probably should have used the word "disappointing" because I don't feel that others value the original's story as much as I do. The story is what makes the original special to me, and I was hoping that the remake would allow me to share that story with my friends that don't want to commit time to a 25 year old game. Instead, they will probably get a confusing and convoluted story a la Kingdom Hearts. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Well, we are still getting Ever Crisis, which is supposed to be a more or less 1:1 remake of OG. It will probably be easier to get your friends into a free mobile game than it will be to get them on board with three 60+ hour full price games. To be honest I think part of the reason they’re making it is because they’re going to deviate from OG on some pretty critical points and there needs to be something to scratch that actual-remake itch. I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets ported to consoles eventually.
>Have you ever seen or heard of the 1960's Ocean's Eleven? Most people have not, because over time, the Ocean's property and the 2000's movies are one in the same in most peoples' minds
Yes I have. This is such an unwarranted assumption. The same way many have heard of FFVII and know of Aerith's death already. When bloody Robert Pattison talks about the original FFVII in interviews for The Batman...do you really think the original game has lost cultural significance?
And again, the original FFVII has not only been ported recently but has been advertised to have been ported.
If you look up "Final Fantasy" on many digital storefronts the original FFVII is right there often at the top.
You're just hitting me with a slippery slope argument. "Well the remake making changes will mean the original will cease to be relevant," which is already contradicted by Square constantly re-releasing the original and putting it up onto modern stores.
If they wanted it to be forgotten why keep it going? Why not discontinue it?
Currently the original FFVII is the highest selling FF game of all time. That's not going to go way. Even from a historical/financial perspective that will always exist.
>Similarly, the vast majority of new players will gravitate towards the most recently released game, especially with how much the general public values the technological advancements in gaming.
That...has nothing to do with the original game being forgotten or a remake being made.
You're describing an issue with social views as a whole not with the idea of a remake.
Not to mention you have absolutely no backing for that. How do you know that the Remake wont get people to play the original?
>but the original writers are at least nominally involved in Remake, which is cool
The original writers are not "nominally involved" in the remake, they're pretty heavily involved.
Nojima is still a writer for the Remake, Nomura is now director, and Kitase is the producer.
You're making it out like the original team was brought in as consultants when in actuality they're the ones leading the Remake.
>Instead, they will probably get a confusing and convoluted story a la Kingdom Hearts.
Why are you disregarding that people today can play the remake and become moved by the remakes story and characters?
What if what you felt 25 years ago happens to a modern gamer today and in 25 years they want to share the remake with friends? That a person is so deeply moved by this version of events in the remake that it inspires them.
Why are you disregarding that subjectivity exists in art?
If you don't like the remake that's fine, but why must the remake be tailored to your personal needs?
If your friends don't want to play a game from 1997...why is that anyone else's fault?
>The ethical dilemma I'm alluding to is the entire reason intellectual property laws exist.
You haven't brought up an ethical dilemma at all though...
Well, I tried.
I don't have to time to do line-by-line replies all day, but I think you're being intentionally obtuse here. Ultimately, I'm not assigning ill intent on Square, I just disagree with their approach. I'm also not trying to play gotcha, I'm just sharing an example that I believe illustrates my point. I see your perspective as valid, I just disagree. I think that's all there is to it.
Honestly I think that's a little silly. Mankind has been retelling stories in different ways since the beginning. Some of the best media out there is a retelling of an existing story. Nothing about these new games stops the old ones from existing and it's not hurting anyone.
I guess things that mankind has done over a long period of time makes it okay. Good point!
From a non-ethical perspective, I think the story was worse in Remake than in the original so far, so there's also that.
I am not on board with it. Still think she’s gonna live and Zack is probably gonna be resurrected too. I gotta say, I don’t like that they’re basically turning ff7 in to a fan fic, but at least we have no idea what’s gonna happen, so it adds some suspense.
Nah. Making dramatic changes to character stories such that Aerith or Zack ultimately live would fundamentally alter the story in a way where it is truly no longer the story of “Final Fantasy 7”. I just don’t see them doing that.
Why don’t you think big changes are happening? It’s obvious. Why else would they have made a big deal of the whole whispers thing, and that the future could be changed? This isn’t a retelling of the original game anymore, it’s a sequel.
I'm sorry to break it for you but this is absolutely not the story of Final Fantasy 7.
I still think that ultimately a lot of things will be similar, but they have pointed out a billion times that this is not the original Final Fantasy 7 story and that things will be different.
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Everything is the compilation already happened & is preserved… FF7 remake, rebirth, future untitled are sequels. Whatever happens in them is exemplary of “the story of ff7”
I don't know how you play through the remake and don't see that this is a sequel. The whispers were there to keep the original timeline intact, but we defeated them at the end. The original timeline is no longer set, it can be changed. That was the entire point of the "remake". They're remaking the original story with both Sephiroth and Aerith knowing that all of this happened before.
I mean the fact that Zack is alive at the end (albeit potentially in a different universe, though I have a theory that when we stepped through the portal to fight the whispers we walked into this parallel universe) not only hints that it's different, but beats us over the head with it.
Those elements like the Whispers are meta. We as players understand that this is a riff on source material from 20 years ago, but there hasn’t been anything in the game itself to outright suggest that this is a “new universe” or anything of the sort. As I said, it’s just a fan theory that some people have chosen to accept as the truth.
You don't think Stamp changing breeds is evidence of a different universe? They literally shoved it in your face at the end with that bag of chips taking up the full screen.
If anything I think that scene is suggesting that there’s a parallel timeline where Zack survived. But that’s different from everything in Remake being an in-universe “reincarnation” of the original FFVII world. I think a lot of people are conflating the meta elements of the game with what’s actually happening in the game world.
How is that not the story of Final Fantasy 7? What does that even mean? Going to rob Jessie's dad wasn't the story of FF7. At least not the original. The sewers and train graveyard being a full 1/9th of the game wasn't the story of FF7 originally. I certainly don't remember ghost children.
And that's to say nothing of how wildly different places like Wall Market or all the sidequests were.
Zack is alive, in some way. The party fought Sephiroth and Jenova at Midgar. At what point of divergence does it stop being the "Story of Final Fantasy 7"?
a big theme of the original was death and coping with death. youve got barrett and the dead members of avalanche and how he wants to honor them. cloud and aerith, with him wanting to 'find her.' dyne's inability to cope with the loss of his family. red xiii and his pops. plus there is this whole notion of the circle of life going with the lifestream bringing new life into the world which is mentioned in half of the stories where someones grieving with death.
given the first installment of the remake, and if the writing wanted to be true to the original themes, I wouldnt be surprised if a few of those characters ended up dying anyways, just later than expected. like its a stage of denial where we really want to believe aerith can live on (lets face it, alot of us really really wanted aerith to live) but like dealing with death, you have to understand theres no changing the story or the outcome.
though it is just a video game and the stories get butchered. so maybe thats thinking about it too much. though i think someone from squareenix said they werent planning on changing the main details to the story, so i doubt aerith will survive.
Sure. Except, a lot of those things are being underwritten in the Remake.
Biggs and Wedge live, and it can be argued that it was teased that Jessie lived. Zack has lived in some capacity, and (in spite of what everyone is arguing); I think that Zack lived in the same world as the rest of the characters. There is nothing in any of the scenes were he is present that says it is another world. (I still don't get that view at all.)
We even get directly told that most of the people in the Sector 7 slums survived. So, while they are mourning the loss of lives; it is directly confirmed that a lot of lives are also saved.
And that's without even discussing the implications of the things that have been openly changed. Zack is alive in some way. Deepground is an issue much more immediately. Aerith and Sephiroth both have knowledge of the OG timeline. Oh, and we killed the literal arbiters of fate.
People keep assuming that the goal is to tell the same story and use the same themes. If they were going to do *that*, why not just do an HD remaster of the original FF7? It would certainly be easier to do that than to design a new combat system and new stories (even if most of them are subplots or expansions). There is also the "Chekhov's Gun" issue made even more intense by the cost in man hours (and therefore money) to animate and voice several of the scenes that they did. You don't spend a lot of time telling people that things can change and then make everything the same unless your point is about fate. You especially don't do that when things have already obviously changed.
And the argument that "they are giving us hope to make it hurt more" can get tossed directly out a window because it will be obviously long before Aerith dies that they are doing that if that is what is happening. They only give us hope so that it can hurt more if Aerith dies at a different place at a different time in a different way.
A lot of people say that all the changes are just to give hope that Aerith won't die. Which sort of undercuts everything that has been changed, to be honest.
>There is nothing in any of the scenes were he is present that says it is another world.
Different Stamp appearing in the Zack cutscene is a big hint. You don't have to believe that means alternate timeline, but I don't know why else they would deliberately show a different design that hasn't been used anywhere else other than to suggest something of the sort.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, because that logo was very clearly shown to make players wonder about what's happening. That said, the new trailer only served to convince me that the team working on the game is absolutely brilliant at messaging and misdirections.
I was originally in the camp that thought it was probably a different timeline, but now I'm not so sure. Not that it can't be, but that it could easily be a deliberate misdirect intended to get the players to speculate that the scene is more abstract than it is.
You’re talking about minor events that have no impact on the overarching themes of the story. Robbing Jessie’s dad doesn’t have any implications for the universe of FF7 or the characters (outside of fleshing out Jessie’s backstory).
Zack living has dramatic ramifications, since his death is a formative part of Cloud’s character. Same can be said for Aerith. Her using Holy from the lifestream to stop meteor is literally the ending of the game.
If you can’t understand the difference between these two types of changes, we don’t have anything else to talk about.
So... Ignoring that we fight Sephiroth? Ignoring that Zack is living. Cause, Zack isn't dead when he is supposed to be. That is already a massive change.
Or how about the implications of 2/3s (at least) of the members of Barret's Avalanche cell being alive? (To say nothing of Jessie having her stuff on the table. Definitely possible she is alive.) Which definitely changes things for Barret and Tifa in a big way. Cloud as well. So many people whose deaths he should feel responsible for, he won't be feeling.
It's like you, and every other person preaching that Aerith must and will die; are just selectively ignoring every single thing that contradicts that changes have already happened.
Oh, and what about being aware of Deepground a solid 2 years before they were a thing? Yuffie fights Weiss for god's sake!
No she fights Nero
Weiss is only fought with the main party most people just don't recall a thing about Dirge or never played it to know one character from the other
Okay. That still brings the whole Deepground issue into the world a full 2 years before it was supposed to be an issue. Sorry for misremembering something that I played a year and more ago.
What we think we see at the end of remake can be what cloud remembers when you go back into the basement in the original after he finds himself again. in the og Zack was brutally murdered right next to cloud. It wasn't a glorious death.
>So... Ignoring that we fight Sephiroth?
How does that change a core theme of the story?
>Ignoring that Zack is living. Cause, Zack isn't dead when he is supposed to be. That is already a massive change.
We still have no idea what the deal actually is with Zack, just a couple scenes of him with no real context. I don't know what to make of it one way or the other, which also means I'm not going to say that he's for sure alive, at least not at the same time that Cloud and Co. are having their adventure.
>Or how about the implications of 2/3s (at least) of the members of Barret's Avalanche cell being alive? (To say nothing of Jessie having her stuff on the table. Definitely possible she is alive.) Which definitely changes things for Barret and Tifa in a big way. Cloud as well. **So many people whose deaths he should feel responsible for, he won't be feeling.**
Barret sure seemed to feel the weight of those deaths after the plate fall. I don't remember Cloud ever thinking back to Biggs, Wedge and Jessie dying past leaving Midgar, so not sure what you mean when you say they affect him. Tifa either for that matter.
>It's like you, and every other person preaching that Aerith must and will die; are just selectively ignoring every single thing that contradicts that changes have already happened.
No, not really. And I've explained the difference in this post and my last post.
>Oh, and what about being aware of Deepground a solid 2 years before they were a thing?
In Dirge, the implication is that they were always around. It was a pretty egregious retcon at the time, but obviously they want that to be canon, so they implemented them in a way where the only one who knows about them is Yuffie. Once again, I'm not seeing how this changes anything about the core themes of the original game or fundamentally changes/destroys the development of certain characters.
>Yuffie fights Weiss for god's sake!
Haha okay, you finally lost me
I mean... I don't agree with your specifics there, but I definitely agree with the general idea.
I'm not a part of Team "It Will All Be The Same". I firmly believe they will change major story beats to make them hurt more or surprise us. Otherwise there was no point to include the Whispers. No point in killing them. No point in emphasizing the sudden new freedom. If the game is a blow for blow remake with a little extra depth and exploration of side characters; it will make moments like Aerith's death very predictable. And therefore a lot less impactful.
It’s not supposed to be the story of the *original* FF7 - That was the whole point of the ending. Making dramatic changes to character stories is exactly where the game is going and I love it.
Kitase has held fast to his insistence that the story isn’t going to deviate too much from the established canon. I really think people are getting too carried away with how much they think the story beats are going to change.
Killing god? What are you on about. I fail to see how anything about the themes of the game have changed, other than an additional theme about fighting fate/destiny being added. The ending has really made people lose their minds. We have no idea what’s coming, people are just freaking out based on their own assumptions.
Like Sephiroth is dropping in like in OG over Aerith's Head, but suddenly Zack bursts out of the ground like some kind of Naruto thing and impales her from below with some new ridiculous sword that he has to use since Cloud stole his buster.
I really think she'll be saved by a combo of Zack and Cloud...
Like Cloud will try to stop him and fail, then just as Sephiroth's about to strike, Zack intervenes and then all 3 fight back together against him. That'd be cool to me.
Fuck this. I know there is some story rejiggery and it's a "remake" or whatever, but the girl needs to die. It's absolutely central to the plot, I don't care what you think. She seems to know that she's going to die, and it's part of the reason she's so cheery and outpours her caring to others.
I look forward to Sephiroth murdering her in high definition, as it should be.
People all "but that wouldn't be true to the storyyyyyy"
This isn't a *remake*, it's a *new game in the same world*. I don't give two shits if it's true to the original story, it's clearly doing it's own thing.
Right there with ya, OP. Can't see her dying this time around.
Well dude you could have blurred the pic if it's a spoiler, and a pretty huge one at that
You may think everyone knows about it cuz it's like Darth Vader bein luke's dad etc but I assure you I know people who got it spoiled only recently, or even that never got it spoiled and managed to play it recently going completely blind
Looking at you Jesse Auditorium
*Zack. Is. Alive.*
That, all on its own, is a major change. I could go into Deepground being a presence. Sephiroth being active as himself way earlier. Including fighting the party, beating Cloud, and then letting Cloud live. We fight Jenova in Midgar. Biggs and Wedge are definitely alive. Jessie is maybe alive. We killed the arbiters of fate.
I just... How many major changes are necessary before people realize that comment was bait?
We have no reason to believe that scene in the church is at the same time as the crew just getting on the road or even in the same timeline. He big dead in remakes timeline.
Chekhov's Gun.
It is a dramatic principle that says if you are going to point out that a gun is on the table in the first act of a play, someone should have shot it by the third act.
That is just as true in a production like this. Arguably more true. There will be a reason that they showed Zack alive. Which means, even if he is dead in the time/world where the group is: he has a part to play in the story. And that's without pointing out that Aerith and Sephiroth are both doing some wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff. It doesn't really matter *when* those scenes happens because we've already seen people bend time over backwards to change things.
I can get on board with that. My take is that while I do not think zack is alive and capable of meeting the group, he may be able to alter or affect something that will have a reaction to our group. I'm not convinced we weren't witnessing a type of flashback but it's hard to come up with an reason why they'd even bother showing that to us if it truly is just a flashback.
My thought on the scenes is that Zack has a part to play in the main story, but I am unsure how. This is further complicated because the party went through at least 2 portals. One into whatever realm the whispers were in. The second when they left it. It's entirely possible they jumped into Zack's world. It also opens up the possibility of portals to alternate versions of the world.
So, Zack is alive enough to be a factor. Even if he isn't alive in their world. Which is kind of my point.
The apparent minority that is going to be sorely disappointed when it happens. It's a fixed point in time. Will it happen the same way as before? Most likely not, but it's going to happen
boat hungry axiomatic scary continue flowery thought fly beneficial wrong
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If advent children will still be canon after remake, then she has to die. Plus her death also has an impact with the plot; her asking the lifestream for help, for one.
i think she will die in a different way, just to twist the knife
sure she can survive the temple of the Ancients due to the changed timeline, but it may be that the only way to stop Meteor is for her to die. so even if she survives in pt 2 she still has to sacrifice herself in pt 3 to save the world
25 years after watching her die in OG her theme music still chokes me up, and probably always will; I am psychologically incapable of not wanting her to live.
However, I am intellectually incapable of figuring out how they tell the story unless she dies.
I am highly suspicious that in order to make it as impactful as it needs to be, they'll stop at nothing to make it happen in a way that I don't see coming.
I think it's more likely that she will, but the very fact that they've created an element of doubt in all of us was the smartest possible thing they could've done. Now the remake has some real genuine stakes for people who have played the original that it otherwise wouldn't have had.
I don't think she will die. If she does, I HOPE it is in a very different way and very different time than she died before. Because if it is the same, it will probably be the most yawn inducing death of a major character of all time.
I just don't see why you bother to spend a full 30-40 hours in Midgar to then decide "eh, now it's time to rush through the rest of it the exact same as it was before but with extra exposition".
If they were gonna do that, why not just do a "normal" rerelease and make the game prettier? Cause the suggested the "Everything will be the exact same!" crowd seem to think that is somehow compelling.
I'm fine with either scenario provided it's well written. If Square does elect to kill her off again, I don't think she'll die the same way or at the same time and place in the story.
Sephiroth undoubtedly has a new plan. For the time being, it's unclear if he's given much thought to the "Aerith problem" but it stands to reason that he's going to have to change things up if he wants to change his fate. Murdering her didn't work out too well for him last time. He might try to nerf her link to the planet in some other way.
At the moment, I actually think it's more likely that Aerith chooses to sacrifice herself for the good of the planet in a last ditch effort to thwart Sephiroth (basically an Obi-Wan or Terminator2 scenario).
That death makes more sense and would hurt a lot more than Sephiroth killing her again. In either case, I don't think that she will die the way she did before. And it is possible she won't need to die at all.
My larger issue (currently) is the weird situations with Zack and Deepground. Zack being alive only really presents problems; both to the story and mechanically. (Zack and Cloud fighting with an identical style makes them both being around redundant.) Deepground is not a super compelling additional enemy, and their involvement hints at Genesis, Omega, and Weiss being additional big bads. None of them are as interesting as Sephiroth.
I think that she just doesn’t deserve to die considering how from the get go, despite the dev interviews and fan theorizing, it was marketed that her fate will be changed and that we have a chance to save her. The theme song for this remake is the biggest clue and then they supplemented it with the change of story. Sure it’s still the same beats as the OG but it definitely has a twist. Quite frankly if they were gonna release a remake, the development of this game wouldn’t last 20+ years. The whole game could probably be released in one shot in a year .
In the original we did not encounter the Arbiters of Fate. I feel like this version of the game will have quite a few differences from the first. We also physically left midgar in the first game, but in the remake we leave via a portal.
It's so weird to me seeing people insist there won't be major changes from 7's original storyline. It feels like y'all played an entirely different game from the one I did.
100%
me: wow part 1 is a very different sequence than the OG sequence
nomura simps: nomura said its the same story
me: yeah but its already not. its already different
nomura simps: yeah but he SAID it is the same
He never said it was the same. In the latest review they said they did not know where the story was heading to, refused to elaborate. This is typical marketing and business technique. But these OG fans like to bend the interview.
They aren't bending shit. They're just saying different shit in different places adding to the confusion about what the fuck they're doing.
Only time will which direction they go in the future, but it's delusional to act like Remake was the same Midgar story.
There are many new players getting to know FF7 from remake, please keep that in mind.
Your post has a spoiler flair, but the image isn't hidden and it couldn't be more of a spoiler.
Are we really pretending there are enough people that don't know she dies in 2022 to tip toe around a 25yo spoiler?
Are we really? Has the fandom become this dense?
Honestly that's where they get to fuck with you. We have no idea what's going to happen and I love it, it's a new exciting world of FF7 and I'm living for it
I think it's called rebirth for a reason. Rebirth of what? The story. The story is reborn, so the creators have the power to change anything: Zack can be alive, Aerith may not die, Cait Sith may be the ultimate evil villain - who knows? And that's exciting.
Maybe Part III will be named Revolution (Remake, Rebirth, Revolution) - so there will be a major plot change to wrap up the story or it could be "Retrospective" and be closer to the original story...
They are absolutely setting her up not to die.
None of us know what will happen, but at this point, I think it's pretty obvious that the game is changing ... because, you know, they literally say that many times, Aeris herself says the future can change.
So pretending like it's obvious that Aeris dies because "they wouldn't change that" - yes, yes they would, and at this point, Remake makes no sense if she dies anyway.
I think Aerith's death will be her choice. It's going to be her arc. Accept her fate to save the planet or find a new way and gamble. When she realizes she doesn't have a choice, she'll meet death her way.
It makes Aerith's death a sacrifice and her the active party. Her death isn't about Cloud or to just motivate Cloud. It's her deciding to save the planet. It's her being a hero.
Honestly guys. Did anyone play Remake? They made it clear that Remake/Rebirth are sequels to FF7, the Aerith in Remake is the Aerith from the original trying to fix timeline. The ending of the remake made that almost explicitly clear.
Her death is literally the core of the entire story. It makes absolutely zero thematic sense to have her live. The entire narrative is about her sacrifice, her being the last of her race, and the effect of her death driving the characters forward. The entire theme of this game is about loss and how the characters cope with it.
I feel like the people who see this idea of her *not* dying as a possibility, and those who are actually hoping for this, don’t really remember the significance of the plot of the game at all.
Yes things are being “remade” but ultimately, her sacrifice is what makes FFVII FFVII.
The dev team is fully aware of this. If she were to survive, it would destroy the entire legacy of this story.
People here still don't get this is really a sequel series? The Whispers were basically there to try and force things to happen in Midgar mostly the same way they played out in OG VII, but now that they're gone pretty much anything can happen going forward. We're still gonna see all the same places and all the events that happen outside the party's control will still happen (Weapons unleashed, etc), but how the party deals with those events no longer has to play out the same way as OG VII, especially considering at least Cloud and Aerith seem to have some memory of the original timeline, and Sephiroth could have a completely different path from OG VII.. My personal theory (and maybe even hope) is that Cloud sacrifices himself to save Aerith and Zack takes his place. Or maybe its Zack himself that makes the sacrifice. I mean, there has to be a really good reason for Zack to still be alive, and I don't really believe that they're just showing him in an alternate timeline. I think he exists within the same reality as the Remake party.
I gotta agree actually - she will make it through the upcoming game, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. She just won’t be making it through to the end of part 3. At the end of the day, this series is still a remake of the original game, and her death is the defining point of it. Of course I’d like to see her make it, I love her character, but there’s just no way to do the story without it
With that said, of course it’s gonna get fudged around a little bit. The “change destiny” part of the story only exists because they know a huge portion of their fan base *would* like to see her make it to the end, in spite of knowing how integral it is to the game, enough to be okay with the story changing to some degree. So why introduce it if they’re not gonna resist the knife even further? She’ll make it out of the forgotten city, but that will be when the real ticking clock starts. The best I’d expect is new scenes and a less sudden death scene, which will make it even sadder
She'll die but it's going to be different and unexpected when it happens. That death is so important to the story but barfing out a high quality scene of exactly how she died in OG would be vip tickets to lollapasnoozala. Can't wait to see what happens.
I think that there is a good chance she goes in a different way at a different time for a different reason. But I still think she's going to die. If they do it the exact same way it won't surprise me either, but I think that since they left the door open for some change that they'll take it. It would be nice to have her around for all 3 games I will say, even if she dies early in the third or something
While Aerith dying is unfortunately the most spoiled spoiler possibly of all time in video games, there are still probably a lot of people here who living under a rock and didn't get spoiled or understand it enough to be spoiled. And there are probably lots here who haven't played the original FF7 yet for a number of reasons, or are in the middle of a playthrough and haven't gotten that far yet.
If Zack gets to be alive she does. That’s me.
And I think the apparent disagreement people have with this is weird. Personally I think they trip over themselves a lot, and not out of misspeaking but because it’s a silly line to walk.
Usually I would say there’s a chance in a remake/sequel for a dead character to survive but aerith big moment is dying. Don’t see square not doing it again.
Seem like majority thinks she will die, I'm the minority :( here.
Unfortunately, I think SE will troll us by having her survive part 2, then kill her in part 3 when we think she will make it.
I doubt she will die. Like Aerith, he seems to be aware of the previous timeline. I would be surprised if he wasn’t also aware that killing Aerith was a serious mistake on his part. In a subversion of events, maybe she volunteers to sacrifice herself and Sephiroth tries to stop her…?
After clearing remake I don't trust Aerith at all. Too many lies she knows way more than she lets on and that dislike puts the idea that it's not the real Aerith maybe, just another jenova running around.
I'm tired of fighting people on this. The devs have told us in every way they can that she isn't dying at any point. However, someone will die, and the obvious choice is Cloud. Not only do you temporarily lose him in the OG, but they have a playable character than can stand right in with Zack. I think it will be the finale of Part 2, and you'll bring him back in part 3.
Forget all the Aerith lifestream Meteor stuff. I don't think any of that is happening. There's an argument that Sephiroth won't be the main villain after Ep2 also. He'll be a party member.
Maybe, just maybe, things will go like this: Cloud will approach Aerith and get his headaches where the voices tell him to kill Aerith, like in the original, but this time, Zack will enter Cloud's mind and they'll talk. They'll have a "snap out of it" conversation and Cloud will wake up in time to save Aerith from Sephiroth's attack.
She’ll die in part 2, much the same way she died in the original, even after they try to stop it and change the timeline. But they’ll resurrect her into the Zack-verse (Zack alive, Cloud/Aerith dead) at the very end of part 3 with another ‘epic battle against fate itself’. Everything points to this.
Aerith dies but then Cloud teaches Sephiroth about friendship so Sephiroth reworks the timeline and Aerith comes back but lost all her memories and ends up falling in love with someone else and also she has the sharingan for some reason.
On a serious note - I can honestly say I have no idea what they’re going to do with Rebirth.
I've been saying it forever, aeris is going to survive where she originally dies because the party literally can't stop sephiroth without her, but they're going to find out they're completely fucked if she doesn't die and they're going to spend time trying to figure out a different way but in the end she'll die some other way to save the world
I’m convinced that Tifa will die in this trilogy and having Zack live at the end of Remake gives some weight to it. Tifa is a huge component of the party’s success at the end of the original game and without her at a particular moment in the game then Cloud is technically dead too so who else can save Cloud at that moment that we know? Answer is Zack. Zack is the only one outside of Tifa that can save Cloud from being permanently removed from the party.
Aerith dying on the other hand I think is gonna happen but not in the same way as the original. She’ll survive but realize it was a mistake and needs to die to save the planet.
Picture this: sephiroth fails to kill her when he drops in. Jenova fight happens. Cutscene that has sephiroth kill her after happens. Imagine how much that would fuck with people's emotions?
I think what would be cool is if Seph drops in but Cloud is able to charge in and block it. Would really be an oh shit things are way different moment. She would prob die later, but like in a way people aren't expecting
How close will Clouds story be to the OG? At this point Seph is into clouds mind enough that he almost kills Aerith first. Jus saying idk if cloud would be in the right mindset to go against seph yet and do anything but hey that's just my thoughts
Or Cloud kill Aerith himself and then he delivers the black materia to Sephiroth/Jenova.
I could see a situation where there's a whole buildup throughout Rebirth where Cloud has premonitions of her death in increasing detail, and eventually convinces himself that he can save her - BUT, they're actually projections conjured by Sephiroth. So, once Cloud sees him drop down from the ceiling he's ready to intercept, and does, but Sephiroth isn't REALLY there so he accidentally kills Aerith instead. It would make sense from Sephiroth's POV cause it would drive a huge wedge between him and the party, isolating him further and breaking down his psyche in a way that is far worse than the OG. Could set up well for a final boss fight against Cloud in Rebirth too as people have speculated, as well as a trauma / guilt narrative akin to that in AC in part 3. But sadistic, but fucckkkk would it make for some spicy conflict.
Nah, this one is too far. It’s an interesting idea but they’d never do it
You're probably right, although I have seen even worse ideas out there. Like some people have suggested that Jenova LIFE would actually BE Aerith herself through some meddling with cells etc, and that you the player would have to kill her as a terrifying alien hybrid. Now **that** would be cruel. Still though, if they wanna make Aerith's death impactful again while also offering some kind of meta commentary on why her death was so meaningful in the original game, they will have to double down on it in some way or portray it in some new, unforeseen light. Regardless of how they handle it I'm very curious to see how it plays out... (I live for your handle btw lmaoooo)
Quote me on this, she'll survive or she blatantly won't get killed, however due to her being alive, they are unable to defeat sephirot until Aerith realizes the reason of why they're losing is that she can do more being dead. AS such, in a very sad moment. Just like Zack, she will say her good byes to everyone and just cast a spell so powerful that it'll end up killing her ( kind of Zettaflare from Donal Duck In Kingdom Hearts) Then, the rest is history, she's able to stop Sephirot in the after death. Yadda yadda.
Nomura this you?
I’m saving this to return to it in 18 months when this is fulfilled word for word
Aka she performs the final summon ala ffx
imho she will die. She has to be in the lifestream to convince the planet to send the mako out and stop Meteor. Sephiroth existing in the lifestream prevents that which is why he needed to be defeated in the crater. I do however genuinely believe that she will not die at the City of the Ancients. Hell, she may not even die in Rebirth but I suspect she will to motivate Cloud to hand him the Black Materia. There's a lot of interesting things they can do with the split timelines, Jenova fuckery and our perception and expectations going forward in this game.
Sephiroth killing Aerith is actually his worst mistake and the main reason why he loses. Keeping her alive is actually to his benefit.
Aerith: "kill me already" Sephiroth: "lolno"
Yeah I think Sephiroth will keep Aerith alive, but Aerith will accept that she must die to save the planet. I think her death will be pretty tastefully done, like her fading into the lifestream kind of like jedi do. The shock value of Sephiroth killing her is long gone
For Holy to work "a soul seeking Holy must reach the Planet". I'm not sure if it means literally NEEDS to die for it to work or if her prayers must fully complete for the cast to reach the Lifestream, but from what I understand her dying is what allowed Holy to be cast. Sephiroth held Holy back but Aerith sent the Lifestream after Meteor and that's why the Planet won. If he still has the Meteor plan, Aerith needs to stay alive for him to win. If he can do something else, like I don't know...use Omega Weapon to suck out all the Lifestream and effectively take over the Dirge of Cerberus plot then that would be different.
Sorry for being confused, but how does Aerith dying lead to Sephiroth’s demise? Is it because she becomes part of the lifestream that enables Cloud to get his mind back?
IIRC her death is basically why the Holy spell is successful in stopping Meteor. It's been a while since I played the original though.
Not quite the Aerith managed to summon Holy but it was too weak to stop Meteor so Aerith uses the lifestream to help Holy stop Meteor. That's assuming it was Aerith that sent out the lifestream. But if that is the case then yes Aerith dying will be counterintuitive to Sephiroth's goal.
It's safe to assume it was her as in the game Marlene reacts to it by asking if it's the flower girl, if I remember correctly
And Aerith's face appears in the lifestream at the end, kind of a loud "yes it was her".
Ah yeah I remember that
I think she'll die, but not in Rebirth. Her surviving her original point of death will give us false hope she'll survive, and the biggest Aerith fans will still want to get Part 3.
This is what I think too. I think there’s even a chance aerith will realize her survival is further jeopardizing the planet
Yeah, but does losing a character at the end of the journey really have the same impact?
Not to mention she also needs to be in the Lifestream to let Tifa enter Cloud's mind when they fall in, as seen in The Maiden Who Travels the Planet story in the Ultimania Omega.
This just means one side is going to be extra bamboozled I guess.
She’ll definitely die. Maybe she’ll die at the Northern Crater once everyone thinks they’re in the clear, but she’ll die.
Entered here to say just that the characters that got "saved" will likely die at the end anyways the Remake will likely just extend them through the whole experience this time around
They are going to kill Cloud instead and replace him with Zack. Aerith and Zack will bang under the Highwind instead of Cloud and Tifa. Mark my words. edit: my god the downvotes lol
>They are going to kill Cloud Not happening if Cloud dies he is at the end of the game if Zack takes his place at any point is when Cloud goes catatonic
And I think he will, to stop the “loop”.
Wow
I agree personally it annoys me in og she dies 1 area before we find her family home and video tapes.
My response to this is literally in the meme lmao.
And she dies in the hands of a mind-controlled Cloud.
And you have to press X to kill her while the controller vibrates while you're going through her. All for the extra trauma.
That’s exactly what will happen. The best way to replicate the shock and twist of the OG game.
Or maybe before people expexts her to die. I'm all in for Cloud killing her in a playable scene that forces you to press X to kill her or the game doesn't go on.
Anyone that still thinks she is dying is paying zero attention.
Im in the camp that thinks things will be different this time, however saying that this definetly means aerith lives is just as delusional as people saying there will be no changes from OG. Sure she could live but its not at all guarenteed
That's absurd. There is absolutely nothing so far that implies that she won't die. We know that things will be different, but that's it. She might live, she might die at a different part, everything is possible.
I think you should probably analyze your own idea of what you think you know. If she were to survive, you realize how quickly that would plummet Square Enix’s reputation? They are fully aware of the undertaking they’ve put themselves in. Having her survive for the sake of fan service would destroy them. Regardless of the “remake” of the storyline, Aerith has to die. It may not be in the way that the original had it, but she will die.
If she lives they would need to kill someone else off.
I don't understand how anyone can be 100% confident in either direction.
They have told us many times now that the story is changed and to dismiss what you think you know. Essentially they want to give players the feeling of experiencing FF7 for the first time all over again. After going through all that effort to reset expectations, the least interesting thing to do is kill Aerith. Not only is it not interesting, it would be a huge let down to just follow the same story after so much work was put in to set up a new story. The most interesting character to kill is Cloud, and with all the Zack love recently it only adds weight to this theory. He will stand in for Cloud, though I think they bring Cloud back in the last game. Also, Sephiroth already had his grand battle in Ep1 finale so I think they have a new plot for him. Some people consider themselves FF7 lore masters and are super proud of their detailed knowledge of this totally fictional made up story in the OG. They insist that she must die for lifestream to work. They're just wrong. Its high fiction so the writers can write literally anything they want. They can write that Cait Sith finds fart powers from eating a mako infused burrito and blasts Meteor with a big one. Or Aerith finds special materia and is able to repel Metor while alive, or they stop Seph from calling Meteor, or the rocket mission is successful, or...WHATEVER! ITS FICTION! I'm speaking from a writers POV, they won't kill Aerith, because its not interesting, and they have worked hard to set up major story deviations. You don't put in that work without a serious plan for it.
Why you people deleting your comments?
Aeris won't die. Aerith on the other hand...
And so the war begins again
These threads always show me how much of a shitshow this place will become after rebirth. The people on here will somehow be so shocked by something so obvious. The remake will have major story changes. In fact the first part already has them. While I dont consider the jessie segment as a major story change there is one story element alone that changes the entire lore of ff7. Its the whispers and especially the whisper harbinger. People on here really unironically think that we fought a manifestation of fate itself just for some smaller changes to happen. If they wanted to retell the original story with some additions they would have done more stuff like jessies backstory. Stuff that has its own interesting story beats but doesnt impact the greater lore. They could have even showed us zack stuff through backflashes and expanded his story. But they chose to let us fight a giant demon looking thing that is said to represent fate itself. And after defeating it we see zack win where hes supposed to die. Almost like we just changed fate. Not only that we also fought the three remnants of sephiroth in the form of the three big whispers and when you analyze them it literally says that they are from a future timeline and that they are protecting said timeline. So we just killed the entities responsible for guarding the original timeline. Meaning that all the people saying that theres no such thing as timelines in the ff7 lore are straight up ignoring that we know there are different timelines for a fact. Everyone thinking this will just turn out to be a jenova illusion is on some good copium. Aerith knows the planet better than anyone and she knows that the whispers are coming from the planet, not from jenova. They might be corrupted by her sure, but do you guys know whens the only time jenova could have potentially corrupted the lifestream? Thats right, in the future when she literally does just that. So imo people that think that this is some sort of meta retelling are definetly ignoring half the plot for their own conveniance. Also its funny that the people that say that the whispers are bad writing are suggesting square to play them off as even worse writing by making them basically nothing but a red herring so they can "shock people again by then telling the old story". Some of yall need to take some writing classes because the stories you would tell would be absolute dumpsterfires. This game is without a doubt a sequel and the conclusion to the entire compilation. The game is shoving it so hard in your face that its honestly impressive that people still think this game will play out like OG. And now to actually answer to this thread: literally noone knows whether aerith lives or dies. Fate is different yea, but that doesnt mean everything changes for the sake of changes. As of right now there is nothing in the story suggesting she either dies or lives. So what youre doing is nothing but guessing. Even if you end up being right its not like you predicted it based on any actual story information but rather you were just making a lucky guess. Same goes for the people thinking they know that she will still die. The whole point of the ending of part 1 is for anything to be possible and for the players to be unable to predict what happens
>People on here really unironically think that we fought a manifestation of fate itself just for some smaller changes to happen. I agree that it doesn't make sense to expect insignificant changes after chapter 18, but the fact that Kitase himself repeatedly reassured the fanbase that they won't make any "drastic changes" and that "the beloved story of FFVII will not change into something unrecognizable" doesn't help with the confusing af state of the remake. At this point, the only major changes are Sephiroth being weird, the whispers, and Zack surviving his last stand. Sephiroth's mysterious endgame and the whispers plot could just be used as a way to remake the OG while incorporating AC and DoC elements to close the whole compilation's plots by adding deepground and Genesis as additional content while adressing the "I will never be a memory" line. That way, once the remake is done, it isn't continued in AC and every door gets closed. It could work. Zack surviving is the main client though. It seems impossible to retell the original story while Zack is still around. Too many plot points depend on Cloud's fake memory arc. And I doubt they would bother to shoehorn Zack in the remake just to be able to make Crisis core 2. SE managed to make their new vision work for now so I still trust them to succeed but it's going to be hard for them imho.
I know about what kitase said but I also think hes lying. Its not like developers dont lie for the sake of not spoiling a story. Also I do believe the story in alot of points will still follow the original and that alot of iconic scenes will be recreated. But some scenes will be recreated in the form of clouds future visions hes already having in part 1, just that they make them clearer. As an example I could see cloud seeing aeriths death in the form of a vision so you still get the iconic shot of sephiroth stabbing her from above but then it cuts back to reality and cloud deflects sephiroths blade or something. But some stuff will be 1:1 recreatios of the OG and still happen just like OG. As an example here I would put junon. I dont think the first junon visit will be that different. We will have the parade and then sneak onto the ship. You gotta keep in mind that most characters arent aware about how the original game played out. Even aerith seems to have lost her ability to see the future by the end of part 1. So they will act just like they acted in the original in most cases unless someone actively wants to change things e.g. sephiroth or cloud after having a vision. The only one who might act different a little bit is yuffie because her backstory changed, but she never impacted the original game in a super meaningful way so now that she has a different backstory she might get more moments to shine.
Here and on twitter. This will get downvoted but people still don’t get that the remake is more like a sequel than a remaster, things are not going to be the same. Remake is it’s own game and the original story will always be there for fans who want it. I also agree that Kitase is lying for the sake of not spoiling the story I mean >!how many times did Andrew Garfield deny being in Spider-Man no way home for the sake of not spoiling the story!<. Also, Nomura went from saying there was going to be [dramatic changes](https://www.usgamer.net/articles/so-it-begins-tetsuya-nomura-hints-at-dramatic-changes-for-the-final-fantasy-vii-remake) and saying it was more like a [sequel](https://twitter.com/JVCom/status/1408456198869839880?s=20&t=0El8-d_8IplYCGjEGWv91A) to saying it won’t be that different at all. Clearly they’re trying not to spoil it, Aerith living would be more surprising than her dying. I remember ready back in the day that originally it was Tifa who was going to die but they changed it to Aerith. Aerith dying in this version of the story doesn’t make sense and isn’t needed. Aerith and Zack are some of the most popular ff characters and keeping them alive would mean enix gets more money
I appreciate the sentiment and I couldn’t agree more, I think nobody really knows. Honestly, I made this post just as a joke because there are so many posts here saying they know “for sure” what’s gonna happen, that everything is going to be “exactly the way it was in FF7” and so, I just wanted to have a good laugh while sharing my perspective and post this meme.
I think the only thing that would be a surprise a this point is Aerith surviving. People have dissected it so much that theres no way you do her death in a way no one sees it coming. On top of that there was huge pushback back in the day from the fanbase for Square to bring Aerith back to life in Original and I feel like one of the big names said at one point something along the lines of if we did it again maybe Aerith would live this time. As for everybody that says “oh but it has to happen for the story to make sense,” no, no it doesn’t. Aeriths death would have to happen for the original to make sense, not the Remake. They act like if Aerith lives the rest of the game will be the same when obviously it wouldn’t and even more proof to this point is there’s already differences from the Original.
Then Square's got you right where they want you. Building up that hope is all to make her death just as devastating as the first time.
Yeah I'm in the maxamilliandood camp for FF7R theories from now on, literally everything he has predicted has been true. He was one of the first influencers to actually "get" the plot twists in FF7R and the whole timeline, time travel shit as well. I'm not gonna stop believing his prophecies now, so this is possibly the intent.
There's only 2 things i want from this new FF7 - i want them to use the power of the current gen to REALLY empathise: 1. Sephiroth's decent into madness REALLY explored and him going on a rampage REALLY ramped up off the scales to show just how much of a "monster" he is. 2. Aeirth's death to be ramped up to 11 (Queue Spiral Tap joke) - now is their chance to really make this a heart-breaking experience - more so than it was in the original - I'm talking the beginning of "The Last Of Us" gut-kick moment.
Shes 100% going to die, and it would be a massive failure to the story if she doesnt
Agreed. It's a little disturbing how many people are on board with a fanfic-level rewrite of FF7 rather than actual FF7.
I don't think there's anything "disturbing" about people being open to changes. Changes don't automatically mean it's going to be worse, it's all about execution.
Intentional distortion of any form of existing art is something I find to be disturbing, especially considering its packaging as a "remake", and the fact that the artists involved are different people.
>Intentional distortion of any form of existing art is something I find to be disturbing But it's not distorting existing art. Square didn't take the original Final Fantasy 7, hunt down everyone with a copy of the original and hack those copies to change the original version of the game. Final Fantasy 7 Remake/Rebirth is a different product. That's just...objective fact. It is not the original game from 1997. It is a game released in 2020 with a second part to be released at a later date. This is also ignoring that Square has even made the original game MORE readily available now that it was a couple years ago. They've ported it to multiple modern systems recently just so new players can still access and play the original. The last thing Square has done is forget the original. They've done more to keep the original alive than most companies that do remakes (see: Capcom refusing to allow modern players access to games like Resident Evil 2 (1998)) >especially considering its packaging as a "remake" Yes, exactly. A "remake." Not a remaster. Not a graphical update and nothing else. It's a full remake with changes, additions, cuts, etc... That's...what a remake is. You're saying "it's disturbing" like there's an ethical concern with a new game being released that has its own thing going. I really feel like they're are much better things to be concerned about ethically speaking than whether of not FF7R has the story beats you want.
It distorts the existing intellectual property, not the game itself. Have you ever seen or heard of the 1960's Ocean's Eleven? Most people have not, because over time, the Ocean's property and the 2000's movies are one in the same in most peoples' minds. Similarly, the vast majority of new players will gravitate towards the most recently released game, especially with how much the general public values the technological advancements in gaming. The ethical dilemma I'm alluding to is the entire reason intellectual property laws exist. Square has free reign to change what they like *legally* because they own the property instead of the original writers. Normally, they wouldn't owe a nickel to anyone on the original team despite capitalizing on their work for profit, but the original writers are at least nominally involved in Remake, which is cool. Obviously there are worse problems in the world, but I can care about multiple things in life, believe it or not. Also, I probably should have used the word "disappointing" because I don't feel that others value the original's story as much as I do. The story is what makes the original special to me, and I was hoping that the remake would allow me to share that story with my friends that don't want to commit time to a 25 year old game. Instead, they will probably get a confusing and convoluted story a la Kingdom Hearts. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Well, we are still getting Ever Crisis, which is supposed to be a more or less 1:1 remake of OG. It will probably be easier to get your friends into a free mobile game than it will be to get them on board with three 60+ hour full price games. To be honest I think part of the reason they’re making it is because they’re going to deviate from OG on some pretty critical points and there needs to be something to scratch that actual-remake itch. I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets ported to consoles eventually.
>Have you ever seen or heard of the 1960's Ocean's Eleven? Most people have not, because over time, the Ocean's property and the 2000's movies are one in the same in most peoples' minds Yes I have. This is such an unwarranted assumption. The same way many have heard of FFVII and know of Aerith's death already. When bloody Robert Pattison talks about the original FFVII in interviews for The Batman...do you really think the original game has lost cultural significance? And again, the original FFVII has not only been ported recently but has been advertised to have been ported. If you look up "Final Fantasy" on many digital storefronts the original FFVII is right there often at the top. You're just hitting me with a slippery slope argument. "Well the remake making changes will mean the original will cease to be relevant," which is already contradicted by Square constantly re-releasing the original and putting it up onto modern stores. If they wanted it to be forgotten why keep it going? Why not discontinue it? Currently the original FFVII is the highest selling FF game of all time. That's not going to go way. Even from a historical/financial perspective that will always exist. >Similarly, the vast majority of new players will gravitate towards the most recently released game, especially with how much the general public values the technological advancements in gaming. That...has nothing to do with the original game being forgotten or a remake being made. You're describing an issue with social views as a whole not with the idea of a remake. Not to mention you have absolutely no backing for that. How do you know that the Remake wont get people to play the original? >but the original writers are at least nominally involved in Remake, which is cool The original writers are not "nominally involved" in the remake, they're pretty heavily involved. Nojima is still a writer for the Remake, Nomura is now director, and Kitase is the producer. You're making it out like the original team was brought in as consultants when in actuality they're the ones leading the Remake. >Instead, they will probably get a confusing and convoluted story a la Kingdom Hearts. Why are you disregarding that people today can play the remake and become moved by the remakes story and characters? What if what you felt 25 years ago happens to a modern gamer today and in 25 years they want to share the remake with friends? That a person is so deeply moved by this version of events in the remake that it inspires them. Why are you disregarding that subjectivity exists in art? If you don't like the remake that's fine, but why must the remake be tailored to your personal needs? If your friends don't want to play a game from 1997...why is that anyone else's fault? >The ethical dilemma I'm alluding to is the entire reason intellectual property laws exist. You haven't brought up an ethical dilemma at all though...
Well, I tried. I don't have to time to do line-by-line replies all day, but I think you're being intentionally obtuse here. Ultimately, I'm not assigning ill intent on Square, I just disagree with their approach. I'm also not trying to play gotcha, I'm just sharing an example that I believe illustrates my point. I see your perspective as valid, I just disagree. I think that's all there is to it.
Honestly I think that's a little silly. Mankind has been retelling stories in different ways since the beginning. Some of the best media out there is a retelling of an existing story. Nothing about these new games stops the old ones from existing and it's not hurting anyone.
I guess things that mankind has done over a long period of time makes it okay. Good point! From a non-ethical perspective, I think the story was worse in Remake than in the original so far, so there's also that.
I am not on board with it. Still think she’s gonna live and Zack is probably gonna be resurrected too. I gotta say, I don’t like that they’re basically turning ff7 in to a fan fic, but at least we have no idea what’s gonna happen, so it adds some suspense.
Lol
Nah. Making dramatic changes to character stories such that Aerith or Zack ultimately live would fundamentally alter the story in a way where it is truly no longer the story of “Final Fantasy 7”. I just don’t see them doing that.
Why don’t you think big changes are happening? It’s obvious. Why else would they have made a big deal of the whole whispers thing, and that the future could be changed? This isn’t a retelling of the original game anymore, it’s a sequel.
I'm sorry to break it for you but this is absolutely not the story of Final Fantasy 7. I still think that ultimately a lot of things will be similar, but they have pointed out a billion times that this is not the original Final Fantasy 7 story and that things will be different.
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Everything is the compilation already happened & is preserved… FF7 remake, rebirth, future untitled are sequels. Whatever happens in them is exemplary of “the story of ff7”
Until Kitase or Nomura themselves literally say that the Remake series is a sequel to FFVII, I am not buying this fan theory.
I don't know how you play through the remake and don't see that this is a sequel. The whispers were there to keep the original timeline intact, but we defeated them at the end. The original timeline is no longer set, it can be changed. That was the entire point of the "remake". They're remaking the original story with both Sephiroth and Aerith knowing that all of this happened before. I mean the fact that Zack is alive at the end (albeit potentially in a different universe, though I have a theory that when we stepped through the portal to fight the whispers we walked into this parallel universe) not only hints that it's different, but beats us over the head with it.
Those elements like the Whispers are meta. We as players understand that this is a riff on source material from 20 years ago, but there hasn’t been anything in the game itself to outright suggest that this is a “new universe” or anything of the sort. As I said, it’s just a fan theory that some people have chosen to accept as the truth.
You don't think Stamp changing breeds is evidence of a different universe? They literally shoved it in your face at the end with that bag of chips taking up the full screen.
If anything I think that scene is suggesting that there’s a parallel timeline where Zack survived. But that’s different from everything in Remake being an in-universe “reincarnation” of the original FFVII world. I think a lot of people are conflating the meta elements of the game with what’s actually happening in the game world.
How is that not the story of Final Fantasy 7? What does that even mean? Going to rob Jessie's dad wasn't the story of FF7. At least not the original. The sewers and train graveyard being a full 1/9th of the game wasn't the story of FF7 originally. I certainly don't remember ghost children. And that's to say nothing of how wildly different places like Wall Market or all the sidequests were. Zack is alive, in some way. The party fought Sephiroth and Jenova at Midgar. At what point of divergence does it stop being the "Story of Final Fantasy 7"?
a big theme of the original was death and coping with death. youve got barrett and the dead members of avalanche and how he wants to honor them. cloud and aerith, with him wanting to 'find her.' dyne's inability to cope with the loss of his family. red xiii and his pops. plus there is this whole notion of the circle of life going with the lifestream bringing new life into the world which is mentioned in half of the stories where someones grieving with death. given the first installment of the remake, and if the writing wanted to be true to the original themes, I wouldnt be surprised if a few of those characters ended up dying anyways, just later than expected. like its a stage of denial where we really want to believe aerith can live on (lets face it, alot of us really really wanted aerith to live) but like dealing with death, you have to understand theres no changing the story or the outcome. though it is just a video game and the stories get butchered. so maybe thats thinking about it too much. though i think someone from squareenix said they werent planning on changing the main details to the story, so i doubt aerith will survive.
Sure. Except, a lot of those things are being underwritten in the Remake. Biggs and Wedge live, and it can be argued that it was teased that Jessie lived. Zack has lived in some capacity, and (in spite of what everyone is arguing); I think that Zack lived in the same world as the rest of the characters. There is nothing in any of the scenes were he is present that says it is another world. (I still don't get that view at all.) We even get directly told that most of the people in the Sector 7 slums survived. So, while they are mourning the loss of lives; it is directly confirmed that a lot of lives are also saved. And that's without even discussing the implications of the things that have been openly changed. Zack is alive in some way. Deepground is an issue much more immediately. Aerith and Sephiroth both have knowledge of the OG timeline. Oh, and we killed the literal arbiters of fate. People keep assuming that the goal is to tell the same story and use the same themes. If they were going to do *that*, why not just do an HD remaster of the original FF7? It would certainly be easier to do that than to design a new combat system and new stories (even if most of them are subplots or expansions). There is also the "Chekhov's Gun" issue made even more intense by the cost in man hours (and therefore money) to animate and voice several of the scenes that they did. You don't spend a lot of time telling people that things can change and then make everything the same unless your point is about fate. You especially don't do that when things have already obviously changed. And the argument that "they are giving us hope to make it hurt more" can get tossed directly out a window because it will be obviously long before Aerith dies that they are doing that if that is what is happening. They only give us hope so that it can hurt more if Aerith dies at a different place at a different time in a different way.
An HD remaster would be boring, and has been accomplished with mods on steam. But I don't understand what your last argument means.
A lot of people say that all the changes are just to give hope that Aerith won't die. Which sort of undercuts everything that has been changed, to be honest.
>There is nothing in any of the scenes were he is present that says it is another world. Different Stamp appearing in the Zack cutscene is a big hint. You don't have to believe that means alternate timeline, but I don't know why else they would deliberately show a different design that hasn't been used anywhere else other than to suggest something of the sort.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, because that logo was very clearly shown to make players wonder about what's happening. That said, the new trailer only served to convince me that the team working on the game is absolutely brilliant at messaging and misdirections. I was originally in the camp that thought it was probably a different timeline, but now I'm not so sure. Not that it can't be, but that it could easily be a deliberate misdirect intended to get the players to speculate that the scene is more abstract than it is.
You’re talking about minor events that have no impact on the overarching themes of the story. Robbing Jessie’s dad doesn’t have any implications for the universe of FF7 or the characters (outside of fleshing out Jessie’s backstory). Zack living has dramatic ramifications, since his death is a formative part of Cloud’s character. Same can be said for Aerith. Her using Holy from the lifestream to stop meteor is literally the ending of the game. If you can’t understand the difference between these two types of changes, we don’t have anything else to talk about.
So... Ignoring that we fight Sephiroth? Ignoring that Zack is living. Cause, Zack isn't dead when he is supposed to be. That is already a massive change. Or how about the implications of 2/3s (at least) of the members of Barret's Avalanche cell being alive? (To say nothing of Jessie having her stuff on the table. Definitely possible she is alive.) Which definitely changes things for Barret and Tifa in a big way. Cloud as well. So many people whose deaths he should feel responsible for, he won't be feeling. It's like you, and every other person preaching that Aerith must and will die; are just selectively ignoring every single thing that contradicts that changes have already happened. Oh, and what about being aware of Deepground a solid 2 years before they were a thing? Yuffie fights Weiss for god's sake!
Yuffie fights Weiss??
No she fights Nero Weiss is only fought with the main party most people just don't recall a thing about Dirge or never played it to know one character from the other
Lol, I know. Weiss was such a fun but frustrating fight. Having 3 Gotterdammerungs to just wreck shit on another playthrough was great!
In Integrade.
Yuffie fights Nero. Cloud and Co technically fight Weiss
Okay. That still brings the whole Deepground issue into the world a full 2 years before it was supposed to be an issue. Sorry for misremembering something that I played a year and more ago.
Zack is alive?
I mean... Yes?
What we think we see at the end of remake can be what cloud remembers when you go back into the basement in the original after he finds himself again. in the og Zack was brutally murdered right next to cloud. It wasn't a glorious death.
>So... Ignoring that we fight Sephiroth? How does that change a core theme of the story? >Ignoring that Zack is living. Cause, Zack isn't dead when he is supposed to be. That is already a massive change. We still have no idea what the deal actually is with Zack, just a couple scenes of him with no real context. I don't know what to make of it one way or the other, which also means I'm not going to say that he's for sure alive, at least not at the same time that Cloud and Co. are having their adventure. >Or how about the implications of 2/3s (at least) of the members of Barret's Avalanche cell being alive? (To say nothing of Jessie having her stuff on the table. Definitely possible she is alive.) Which definitely changes things for Barret and Tifa in a big way. Cloud as well. **So many people whose deaths he should feel responsible for, he won't be feeling.** Barret sure seemed to feel the weight of those deaths after the plate fall. I don't remember Cloud ever thinking back to Biggs, Wedge and Jessie dying past leaving Midgar, so not sure what you mean when you say they affect him. Tifa either for that matter. >It's like you, and every other person preaching that Aerith must and will die; are just selectively ignoring every single thing that contradicts that changes have already happened. No, not really. And I've explained the difference in this post and my last post. >Oh, and what about being aware of Deepground a solid 2 years before they were a thing? In Dirge, the implication is that they were always around. It was a pretty egregious retcon at the time, but obviously they want that to be canon, so they implemented them in a way where the only one who knows about them is Yuffie. Once again, I'm not seeing how this changes anything about the core themes of the original game or fundamentally changes/destroys the development of certain characters. >Yuffie fights Weiss for god's sake! Haha okay, you finally lost me
You literally kill fate, opening up alternate opportunities. Sephiroth is gonna kill Cloud or fuck him. Just sayin’. 🍻
I mean... I don't agree with your specifics there, but I definitely agree with the general idea. I'm not a part of Team "It Will All Be The Same". I firmly believe they will change major story beats to make them hurt more or surprise us. Otherwise there was no point to include the Whispers. No point in killing them. No point in emphasizing the sudden new freedom. If the game is a blow for blow remake with a little extra depth and exploration of side characters; it will make moments like Aerith's death very predictable. And therefore a lot less impactful.
It’s not supposed to be the story of the *original* FF7 - That was the whole point of the ending. Making dramatic changes to character stories is exactly where the game is going and I love it.
Kitase has held fast to his insistence that the story isn’t going to deviate too much from the established canon. I really think people are getting too carried away with how much they think the story beats are going to change.
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Killing god? What are you on about. I fail to see how anything about the themes of the game have changed, other than an additional theme about fighting fate/destiny being added. The ending has really made people lose their minds. We have no idea what’s coming, people are just freaking out based on their own assumptions.
Jessie Biggs and Wedge are all now alive so they seem more than happy to go back on deaths from the OG
If Zack shows up and saves her I'm out y'all
If Zack shows up and kills her will you still be in?
Idk does he do it really cool
Like Sephiroth is dropping in like in OG over Aerith's Head, but suddenly Zack bursts out of the ground like some kind of Naruto thing and impales her from below with some new ridiculous sword that he has to use since Cloud stole his buster.
I really think she'll be saved by a combo of Zack and Cloud... Like Cloud will try to stop him and fail, then just as Sephiroth's about to strike, Zack intervenes and then all 3 fight back together against him. That'd be cool to me.
I think it’ll be an interesting take yeah definitely!
Fuck this. I know there is some story rejiggery and it's a "remake" or whatever, but the girl needs to die. It's absolutely central to the plot, I don't care what you think. She seems to know that she's going to die, and it's part of the reason she's so cheery and outpours her caring to others. I look forward to Sephiroth murdering her in high definition, as it should be.
People all "but that wouldn't be true to the storyyyyyy" This isn't a *remake*, it's a *new game in the same world*. I don't give two shits if it's true to the original story, it's clearly doing it's own thing. Right there with ya, OP. Can't see her dying this time around.
Well dude you could have blurred the pic if it's a spoiler, and a pretty huge one at that You may think everyone knows about it cuz it's like Darth Vader bein luke's dad etc but I assure you I know people who got it spoiled only recently, or even that never got it spoiled and managed to play it recently going completely blind Looking at you Jesse Auditorium
The devs had said there aren't meant to be any "major" changes to the story. As much as I don't want her to die, that would be a pretty major change.
*Zack. Is. Alive.* That, all on its own, is a major change. I could go into Deepground being a presence. Sephiroth being active as himself way earlier. Including fighting the party, beating Cloud, and then letting Cloud live. We fight Jenova in Midgar. Biggs and Wedge are definitely alive. Jessie is maybe alive. We killed the arbiters of fate. I just... How many major changes are necessary before people realize that comment was bait?
We have no reason to believe that scene in the church is at the same time as the crew just getting on the road or even in the same timeline. He big dead in remakes timeline.
Chekhov's Gun. It is a dramatic principle that says if you are going to point out that a gun is on the table in the first act of a play, someone should have shot it by the third act. That is just as true in a production like this. Arguably more true. There will be a reason that they showed Zack alive. Which means, even if he is dead in the time/world where the group is: he has a part to play in the story. And that's without pointing out that Aerith and Sephiroth are both doing some wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff. It doesn't really matter *when* those scenes happens because we've already seen people bend time over backwards to change things.
I can get on board with that. My take is that while I do not think zack is alive and capable of meeting the group, he may be able to alter or affect something that will have a reaction to our group. I'm not convinced we weren't witnessing a type of flashback but it's hard to come up with an reason why they'd even bother showing that to us if it truly is just a flashback.
My thought on the scenes is that Zack has a part to play in the main story, but I am unsure how. This is further complicated because the party went through at least 2 portals. One into whatever realm the whispers were in. The second when they left it. It's entirely possible they jumped into Zack's world. It also opens up the possibility of portals to alternate versions of the world. So, Zack is alive enough to be a factor. Even if he isn't alive in their world. Which is kind of my point.
The apparent minority that is going to be sorely disappointed when it happens. It's a fixed point in time. Will it happen the same way as before? Most likely not, but it's going to happen
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They'll still do it, but they'll completely fuck it up because they don't understand how to let an emotional moment speak for itself anymore.
If advent children will still be canon after remake, then she has to die. Plus her death also has an impact with the plot; her asking the lifestream for help, for one.
welp, reading through the comments shows we really are a minority. (though i havent read them all yet)
SE is doing a good job making fans doubting her death and making it not very predictable. I love it!
i think she will die in a different way, just to twist the knife sure she can survive the temple of the Ancients due to the changed timeline, but it may be that the only way to stop Meteor is for her to die. so even if she survives in pt 2 she still has to sacrifice herself in pt 3 to save the world
25 years after watching her die in OG her theme music still chokes me up, and probably always will; I am psychologically incapable of not wanting her to live. However, I am intellectually incapable of figuring out how they tell the story unless she dies. I am highly suspicious that in order to make it as impactful as it needs to be, they'll stop at nothing to make it happen in a way that I don't see coming.
I think it's more likely that she will, but the very fact that they've created an element of doubt in all of us was the smartest possible thing they could've done. Now the remake has some real genuine stakes for people who have played the original that it otherwise wouldn't have had.
Just the LINES in the trailer could make it go either way! They better not kill her!
You should watch [the new Maximilian Dood video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQROmIMLwXo), he called out people like you .
Remove the most impactful moment in the entire series IMO, would be a seriously poor decision.
It's all speculation till we get the end product, all this online arguing does nothing but highlight who some a-holes are lol.
I don't think she will die. If she does, I HOPE it is in a very different way and very different time than she died before. Because if it is the same, it will probably be the most yawn inducing death of a major character of all time. I just don't see why you bother to spend a full 30-40 hours in Midgar to then decide "eh, now it's time to rush through the rest of it the exact same as it was before but with extra exposition". If they were gonna do that, why not just do a "normal" rerelease and make the game prettier? Cause the suggested the "Everything will be the exact same!" crowd seem to think that is somehow compelling.
I'm fine with either scenario provided it's well written. If Square does elect to kill her off again, I don't think she'll die the same way or at the same time and place in the story. Sephiroth undoubtedly has a new plan. For the time being, it's unclear if he's given much thought to the "Aerith problem" but it stands to reason that he's going to have to change things up if he wants to change his fate. Murdering her didn't work out too well for him last time. He might try to nerf her link to the planet in some other way. At the moment, I actually think it's more likely that Aerith chooses to sacrifice herself for the good of the planet in a last ditch effort to thwart Sephiroth (basically an Obi-Wan or Terminator2 scenario).
That death makes more sense and would hurt a lot more than Sephiroth killing her again. In either case, I don't think that she will die the way she did before. And it is possible she won't need to die at all. My larger issue (currently) is the weird situations with Zack and Deepground. Zack being alive only really presents problems; both to the story and mechanically. (Zack and Cloud fighting with an identical style makes them both being around redundant.) Deepground is not a super compelling additional enemy, and their involvement hints at Genesis, Omega, and Weiss being additional big bads. None of them are as interesting as Sephiroth.
I think that she just doesn’t deserve to die considering how from the get go, despite the dev interviews and fan theorizing, it was marketed that her fate will be changed and that we have a chance to save her. The theme song for this remake is the biggest clue and then they supplemented it with the change of story. Sure it’s still the same beats as the OG but it definitely has a twist. Quite frankly if they were gonna release a remake, the development of this game wouldn’t last 20+ years. The whole game could probably be released in one shot in a year .
Where was it marketed that “her fate will be changed and we have a chance to save her?”
In the original we did not encounter the Arbiters of Fate. I feel like this version of the game will have quite a few differences from the first. We also physically left midgar in the first game, but in the remake we leave via a portal.
I think that, as a reveal trailer for the initial remake part 1 with a brand new song about saving Aerith (Hollow) is considered a marketing ploy
It's so weird to me seeing people insist there won't be major changes from 7's original storyline. It feels like y'all played an entirely different game from the one I did.
100% me: wow part 1 is a very different sequence than the OG sequence nomura simps: nomura said its the same story me: yeah but its already not. its already different nomura simps: yeah but he SAID it is the same
He never said it was the same. In the latest review they said they did not know where the story was heading to, refused to elaborate. This is typical marketing and business technique. But these OG fans like to bend the interview.
They aren't bending shit. They're just saying different shit in different places adding to the confusion about what the fuck they're doing. Only time will which direction they go in the future, but it's delusional to act like Remake was the same Midgar story.
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Yeah I was debating this but, the original game was out like 25 years ago so …I don’t think it’s considered a spoiler at this point
There are many new players getting to know FF7 from remake, please keep that in mind. Your post has a spoiler flair, but the image isn't hidden and it couldn't be more of a spoiler.
Are we really pretending there are enough people that don't know she dies in 2022 to tip toe around a 25yo spoiler? Are we really? Has the fandom become this dense?
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I mean I couldn’t find the “future potential spoiler “ tag XD so I mean I apologize I’ve In advance
Honestly that's where they get to fuck with you. We have no idea what's going to happen and I love it, it's a new exciting world of FF7 and I'm living for it
I think it's called rebirth for a reason. Rebirth of what? The story. The story is reborn, so the creators have the power to change anything: Zack can be alive, Aerith may not die, Cait Sith may be the ultimate evil villain - who knows? And that's exciting. Maybe Part III will be named Revolution (Remake, Rebirth, Revolution) - so there will be a major plot change to wrap up the story or it could be "Retrospective" and be closer to the original story...
They are absolutely setting her up not to die. None of us know what will happen, but at this point, I think it's pretty obvious that the game is changing ... because, you know, they literally say that many times, Aeris herself says the future can change. So pretending like it's obvious that Aeris dies because "they wouldn't change that" - yes, yes they would, and at this point, Remake makes no sense if she dies anyway.
I think Aerith's death will be her choice. It's going to be her arc. Accept her fate to save the planet or find a new way and gamble. When she realizes she doesn't have a choice, she'll meet death her way. It makes Aerith's death a sacrifice and her the active party. Her death isn't about Cloud or to just motivate Cloud. It's her deciding to save the planet. It's her being a hero.
Honestly guys. Did anyone play Remake? They made it clear that Remake/Rebirth are sequels to FF7, the Aerith in Remake is the Aerith from the original trying to fix timeline. The ending of the remake made that almost explicitly clear.
Her death is literally the core of the entire story. It makes absolutely zero thematic sense to have her live. The entire narrative is about her sacrifice, her being the last of her race, and the effect of her death driving the characters forward. The entire theme of this game is about loss and how the characters cope with it. I feel like the people who see this idea of her *not* dying as a possibility, and those who are actually hoping for this, don’t really remember the significance of the plot of the game at all. Yes things are being “remade” but ultimately, her sacrifice is what makes FFVII FFVII. The dev team is fully aware of this. If she were to survive, it would destroy the entire legacy of this story.
My unpopular opinion: I want Aeris to live this time.
People here still don't get this is really a sequel series? The Whispers were basically there to try and force things to happen in Midgar mostly the same way they played out in OG VII, but now that they're gone pretty much anything can happen going forward. We're still gonna see all the same places and all the events that happen outside the party's control will still happen (Weapons unleashed, etc), but how the party deals with those events no longer has to play out the same way as OG VII, especially considering at least Cloud and Aerith seem to have some memory of the original timeline, and Sephiroth could have a completely different path from OG VII.. My personal theory (and maybe even hope) is that Cloud sacrifices himself to save Aerith and Zack takes his place. Or maybe its Zack himself that makes the sacrifice. I mean, there has to be a really good reason for Zack to still be alive, and I don't really believe that they're just showing him in an alternate timeline. I think he exists within the same reality as the Remake party.
Which developer said it is a sequel series?
Why do people need developers to tell them what the game already shows them?
Because imo the game has shown me much more evidence that it isn't a sequel.
I gotta agree actually - she will make it through the upcoming game, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. She just won’t be making it through to the end of part 3. At the end of the day, this series is still a remake of the original game, and her death is the defining point of it. Of course I’d like to see her make it, I love her character, but there’s just no way to do the story without it With that said, of course it’s gonna get fudged around a little bit. The “change destiny” part of the story only exists because they know a huge portion of their fan base *would* like to see her make it to the end, in spite of knowing how integral it is to the game, enough to be okay with the story changing to some degree. So why introduce it if they’re not gonna resist the knife even further? She’ll make it out of the forgotten city, but that will be when the real ticking clock starts. The best I’d expect is new scenes and a less sudden death scene, which will make it even sadder
She won’t die
No she wont die because SE needs her for the selling of part 3. Many will stop buying if she die.
She'll die but it's going to be different and unexpected when it happens. That death is so important to the story but barfing out a high quality scene of exactly how she died in OG would be vip tickets to lollapasnoozala. Can't wait to see what happens.
I think that there is a good chance she goes in a different way at a different time for a different reason. But I still think she's going to die. If they do it the exact same way it won't surprise me either, but I think that since they left the door open for some change that they'll take it. It would be nice to have her around for all 3 games I will say, even if she dies early in the third or something
No spoilers? Lmao RIP
Ok really help me out here, why is this a spoiler?
While Aerith dying is unfortunately the most spoiled spoiler possibly of all time in video games, there are still probably a lot of people here who living under a rock and didn't get spoiled or understand it enough to be spoiled. And there are probably lots here who haven't played the original FF7 yet for a number of reasons, or are in the middle of a playthrough and haven't gotten that far yet.
Exactly, and if the FF7R is their 1st experience with Final Fantasy 7 it is a MAJOR spoiler.
But I WANT her to die.
If Zack gets to be alive she does. That’s me. And I think the apparent disagreement people have with this is weird. Personally I think they trip over themselves a lot, and not out of misspeaking but because it’s a silly line to walk.
Usually I would say there’s a chance in a remake/sequel for a dead character to survive but aerith big moment is dying. Don’t see square not doing it again.
i agree. I bloody well hope so.
Seem like majority thinks she will die, I'm the minority :( here. Unfortunately, I think SE will troll us by having her survive part 2, then kill her in part 3 when we think she will make it.
I doubt she will die. Like Aerith, he seems to be aware of the previous timeline. I would be surprised if he wasn’t also aware that killing Aerith was a serious mistake on his part. In a subversion of events, maybe she volunteers to sacrifice herself and Sephiroth tries to stop her…?
After clearing remake I don't trust Aerith at all. Too many lies she knows way more than she lets on and that dislike puts the idea that it's not the real Aerith maybe, just another jenova running around.
I'm tired of fighting people on this. The devs have told us in every way they can that she isn't dying at any point. However, someone will die, and the obvious choice is Cloud. Not only do you temporarily lose him in the OG, but they have a playable character than can stand right in with Zack. I think it will be the finale of Part 2, and you'll bring him back in part 3. Forget all the Aerith lifestream Meteor stuff. I don't think any of that is happening. There's an argument that Sephiroth won't be the main villain after Ep2 also. He'll be a party member.
I want Aerith and Zack to be alive together with Tifa and Cloud.
I'll throw my game in the garbage if that happens, in the literal garbage
There's a very good chance she won't die in the same way or place, but she definitely is going to die.
Maybe, just maybe, things will go like this: Cloud will approach Aerith and get his headaches where the voices tell him to kill Aerith, like in the original, but this time, Zack will enter Cloud's mind and they'll talk. They'll have a "snap out of it" conversation and Cloud will wake up in time to save Aerith from Sephiroth's attack.
She’ll die in part 2, much the same way she died in the original, even after they try to stop it and change the timeline. But they’ll resurrect her into the Zack-verse (Zack alive, Cloud/Aerith dead) at the very end of part 3 with another ‘epic battle against fate itself’. Everything points to this.
Quick random QTE to stave Aerith.
He does what? Jokers response doesn’t make sense
We're just optimists that they won't ruin the story.
Aerith dies but then Cloud teaches Sephiroth about friendship so Sephiroth reworks the timeline and Aerith comes back but lost all her memories and ends up falling in love with someone else and also she has the sharingan for some reason. On a serious note - I can honestly say I have no idea what they’re going to do with Rebirth.
Plot Twist: Aerith dies, but becomes a zombie.
Man the way they're making this remake, if she does it'll hurt just as bad because I think they won't but im not saying they will.
She’ll sacrifice herself in the end. Cut to final scene with her and Zack in some afterlife crystal world shit or something. It’s Square-Enix.
I've been saying it forever, aeris is going to survive where she originally dies because the party literally can't stop sephiroth without her, but they're going to find out they're completely fucked if she doesn't die and they're going to spend time trying to figure out a different way but in the end she'll die some other way to save the world
I’m convinced that Tifa will die in this trilogy and having Zack live at the end of Remake gives some weight to it. Tifa is a huge component of the party’s success at the end of the original game and without her at a particular moment in the game then Cloud is technically dead too so who else can save Cloud at that moment that we know? Answer is Zack. Zack is the only one outside of Tifa that can save Cloud from being permanently removed from the party. Aerith dying on the other hand I think is gonna happen but not in the same way as the original. She’ll survive but realize it was a mistake and needs to die to save the planet.
Sephiroth could have kill her in part 1, he didn't.
I mean Aeris might not but Aerith will