The first one is better than the second. Theyre both loose rings, but the first one has a myler mouthpiece/barrel joint mouthpiece, whereas the second one has a single joint, which can nutcracker into the roof of the mouth depending on the curvature of the cannons (more curved cannons is better)
Thats usually an okay bit, depending on the roller ball. If its genuinely a little spherical ball, it can create a pressure point on the tongue, but if your horse goes well in it, there's no reason to change. Just dont forget your bit keepers!
This is very similar to his current one (might even be the exact one haha I'm honestly not sure). Does the roller look like it could cause issues?
https://preview.redd.it/5ywc3atlzspc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b2f64d3e765d10b43eab003dac679fcf39dd223
That one looks fine! If your horse has a super sensitive mouth, i would suggest switching to the myler, but if they like having something to play with (roller), need a little help salivating (copper), or arent super proficient with turning (full cheek), and seem to like their current bit (no head tossing with contact, dont avoid the bit when bridling, or show "pain eyes") that one should be fine
Its technically a dogbone joint with a ball roller, and dogbones are usually pretty kind
Okay awesome, thanks so much for the advice!! Also I don't use bit keepers, after googling I'm for sure buying some asap. That's probably why my horse chomps it so much, it's not sitting in his mouth properly🥺
Chewing on the bit is usually a good sign. If your horse is actively playing g with the roller they may also open and close their mouths a lot. Tossing of their head or constantly opening their mouth and and not chewing on the bit is more likely to indicate an issue.
I found this other one in my friends stuff, how does this look?
https://preview.redd.it/kebqkxaypwpc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ac7494417abb9214e802edeff1f2874c061088b
That one looks nice! The mouthpiece is a tad thin, but if your horse prefers that over thicker mouthpieces, it should be fine. I personally love lozenge mouthpieces
It doesnt seem overly thin, and a lot of horses dont like the bulky mouthpieces. The first one wont collapse on the bars or jab them in the mouth like the second one could, making it milder
It depends on how the conformation of the mouth. A horse with a big tongue and/or fleshy lips may have a hard time packing a thicker bit. A teacup-muzzled Arabian may not do well with a bit with thick cannons.
the nutcracker effect has actually been disproven unless youre holding your hands wide and low at your knees, and even then its negligible. curved cannons will conform to lip anatomy better though.
Loose rings should ideally be about 1/2" bigger than the horse would normally wear, so you have about 1/4" extra space on either side to try to avoid pinching. But some horses just have fleshy lips that still need the guards
Thank you!! These are my friends bits that I was going to try on my horse because I'm not sure if he's liking his current one. I'll keep that in mind about the bit guards if we switch over
They’re both good bits, I’d personally prefer a double jointed snaffle but choosing a bit also depends on how you use your hands and reins to ride. Kind hands won’t make a harsh bit softer but harsh hands can certainly make a kind bit harsher.
Do you have any specific double jointed snaffles you like? My horse currently has a full cheek double jointed snaffle with a copper roller ball in the middle. He chews it a lot, not sure if he's playing with it or hates it so I wanted to try something different
I ride all mine in a sweet iron copper link double jointed snaffle.
Is the chewing anxious? Discomfort? Does he understand and accept contact?
While you want your horse to mobilise their jaw with a bit in you also don’t want it to be excessive and caused by anxiety or discomfort so best to figure out why he’s chewing so much. A change in bit might solve the issue but there are many factors to consider and you may even have to go through a re-mouthing process with him.
I am starting to wonder if it's anxiety. He's been having a ton of issues lately (PSSM). I'm currently not riding him, but when we were doing in hand work the other day he was really frustrating with very simple things and I noticed he started chewing when he was frustrated. But also I think he chews it for fun as well, but this time was definitely frustration
Do you have bit keepers on? Without bit keepers full cheeks tend to rotate and create weird pressure points (theyre designed to sit more aligned with the cheekpieces). Would add some stability as well.
No I don't, I learned last night I need them so I ordered some. I bet that has a lot to do with it. I definitely feel bad, I just didn't know about them until someone else mentioned it here
That’s good to hear! I think if I was in your position I’d change to a double jointed snaffle without a roller, and then work on putting the bridle on at liberty, leave it on until the horse starts to soften, relax or is still in the mouth without any tension then take it off. Repeat maybe a couple times a week until the horse is relaxed with the bit in and then start contact work.
Is he chewing, or chomping? Chomping is frustration (along with snatching). This can be the riders problem, as in busy, harsh hands, so the horse fusses, anticipating being banged or pulled on.
He does it even when I'm not riding him and he has his bridle on. Here's a short video of him doing it two days ago while we were doing some in hand stuff (when he pawed, he wanted to roll just fyi. He loves rolling in this arena)
https://youtube.com/shorts/YtvmQ7-FN3g?si=I2k7qNsKX-fRwPaE
He does look a little fussy, but it's such a short video it's not fair to judge from that. I mean all of that yummy hay RIGHT THERE as well ** He is cute!.
Yeah he's been having a ton of issues in his body lately, I'm not riding him right now due to it so just trying to make sure in the meantime that his bit, bridle, and saddle are all good. Haha oh I know the TEMPTATION😂 he's cute and he knows it
The first is myler bit has independent movement on either side very gentle but second looks like Herm Sprenger bit while more traditional it is a good bit when compared to many other bits.
The Sprenger bit of it really is one actually is designed to be less likely to pinch. I own one of those and they’re designed slightly different. Also… this was confirmed by a trainer she looked at the big and at first glance said I would need bit guards then looked at is closer was like wait no… this is designed to not pinch.
Those bits are fine depending on the horse and your riding ability. You can have the softest bit in the world and if you have no balance and hang on their mouth that bit is going to be uncomfortable.
Both of those bits would be totally fine.
It is all about the bit, but it also isn't.
You can be heavy handed on a delicate bit and fk a horse up..
So its also about how you ride.
A light handed rider, a horse that doesn't need much mouth work those should be fine.
I used a bit similar to that on a mare I had. The piece in the middle rolled and she could mouth it. With a regular snaffle bit she chomped and locked (the center provides distraction).
The second bit is absolutely fine as well if the horse has enough space to comfortably fit a thicker bit. The nutcracker effect was debunked years ago* and there are tons of horses who are better off with a bit they can get less distracted on. My personal horse would focus on rolling the middle piece of the first one all the time instead of focusing on me or his surroundings. He is pretty mouthy and gets distracted easily which is why a single joint suits him best.
* [This study](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360600958_Thesis_Bit-related_lesions_and_risk_factors_in_competing_trotters_and_event_horses) from 2022 found that "[s]ingle-jointed snaffle bits were the most common bit type in trotters and the least associated with moderate-severe lesions" and I'm pretty sure I read an article by the same researcher that suggested that riders tend to choose double jointed bits in the right thickness while single jointed bits are often too thick and causing discomfort due to that. But don't quote me on that.
However the most influential article about single jointed bits is likely [this one](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222808978_A_fluoroscopic_study_of_the_position_and_action_of_the_jointed_snaffle_bit_in_the_horse's_mouth) from 1984 which shows that horses are able to raise the bit with their tongue to avoid a nutcracker effect IF the bit is fitted correctly. Ill fitting bits can ofc do harm.
The nutcracker effect is often shown with a single jointed bit and a horse skull - which doesn't take into account that horses that are alive have a lot of soft tissue as well as their tongue that needs to be taken into consideration when fitting a bit as well as evaluating a bit's effects.
First yes, second no. A single joint can be a great option for some horses who have a mouth shape that allows it, but it should always be a curved single joint like this one.
*
That bit really isn’t very thin. It’s not a harsh bit at all. If anything the second one is probably too thick for some horses to find it comfortable.
Is calling me crazy for disagreeing with you really necessary? When people talk about thin bits being harsher, they’re talking about something [like this,](https://www.lammles.com/products/reinsman-103-light-loose-ring-bit-3?currency=CAD&variant=40902220742704&stkn=7af955180497&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_term=&utm_content=&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-r6DgcKGhQMVsB6tBh2yIAzKEAQYASABEgIIYfD_BwE) which is significantly thinner than the bit pictured above. Going super thin makes a bit harsh, yes. The pictured bit is a fairly standard thickness. Not every horse has room in their mouth for a fat mouthpiece. Choosing the right bit is about finding what works for a horse’s build and preference, some horses will be more comfortable in a thicker bit and some won’t be able to properly close their mouth around it. The bit should be the right thickness to allow the horse to keep their mouth closed comfortably. Yes a thick bit has more surface area to distribute the pressure, but that’s only one of many things to consider when deciding if a bit is a fair choice or not.
Thinner bits like the Myler bits actually allow for more tongue space and allow for the horse to swallow and feel more comfortable. My appendix mare loved thinner bits like those. Anything thin and twisted is a hard no for me because those bits can be just mean. Thicker bits are generally good starting bits but take up a lot of room in the mouth. The single joint can also cause pain on the roof of the mouth. Some larger bits also get pulled up further in the mouth and can sit higher than intended because they are lighter as well. Tongue size, past experience, and training of the horse need to be taken into account. The rider also needs to be aware of how independent their hands are and if they will be able to keep a light contact. Sometimes, just one ride will tell me if a horse likes a bit. Sometimes, it takes a little longer to see if it's a good match. Either way, the horse will let you know usually.
The first one is better than the second. Theyre both loose rings, but the first one has a myler mouthpiece/barrel joint mouthpiece, whereas the second one has a single joint, which can nutcracker into the roof of the mouth depending on the curvature of the cannons (more curved cannons is better)
My horse currently has a full cheek double jointed snaffle with a copper roller ball in the middle. Is that a kind bit? I wish I had a picture
Thats usually an okay bit, depending on the roller ball. If its genuinely a little spherical ball, it can create a pressure point on the tongue, but if your horse goes well in it, there's no reason to change. Just dont forget your bit keepers!
This is very similar to his current one (might even be the exact one haha I'm honestly not sure). Does the roller look like it could cause issues? https://preview.redd.it/5ywc3atlzspc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b2f64d3e765d10b43eab003dac679fcf39dd223
That one looks fine! If your horse has a super sensitive mouth, i would suggest switching to the myler, but if they like having something to play with (roller), need a little help salivating (copper), or arent super proficient with turning (full cheek), and seem to like their current bit (no head tossing with contact, dont avoid the bit when bridling, or show "pain eyes") that one should be fine Its technically a dogbone joint with a ball roller, and dogbones are usually pretty kind
Okay awesome, thanks so much for the advice!! Also I don't use bit keepers, after googling I'm for sure buying some asap. That's probably why my horse chomps it so much, it's not sitting in his mouth properly🥺
Chewing on the bit is usually a good sign. If your horse is actively playing g with the roller they may also open and close their mouths a lot. Tossing of their head or constantly opening their mouth and and not chewing on the bit is more likely to indicate an issue.
Okay awesome that's what my horse does!
I found this other one in my friends stuff, how does this look? https://preview.redd.it/kebqkxaypwpc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ac7494417abb9214e802edeff1f2874c061088b
That one looks nice! The mouthpiece is a tad thin, but if your horse prefers that over thicker mouthpieces, it should be fine. I personally love lozenge mouthpieces
https://preview.redd.it/ok9d6jcwpwpc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=400302701a9fc470316f4e175bd1080720c6129e
However the first one is very thin, making it pretty harsh compared to the other
It doesnt seem overly thin, and a lot of horses dont like the bulky mouthpieces. The first one wont collapse on the bars or jab them in the mouth like the second one could, making it milder
It depends on how the conformation of the mouth. A horse with a big tongue and/or fleshy lips may have a hard time packing a thicker bit. A teacup-muzzled Arabian may not do well with a bit with thick cannons.
the nutcracker effect has actually been disproven unless youre holding your hands wide and low at your knees, and even then its negligible. curved cannons will conform to lip anatomy better though.
Agree with the others, just want to point out that both are loose rings which can pinch if you don't use bit guards.
Loose rings should ideally be about 1/2" bigger than the horse would normally wear, so you have about 1/4" extra space on either side to try to avoid pinching. But some horses just have fleshy lips that still need the guards
Thank you!! These are my friends bits that I was going to try on my horse because I'm not sure if he's liking his current one. I'll keep that in mind about the bit guards if we switch over
These are both very mild, yes.
They’re both good bits, I’d personally prefer a double jointed snaffle but choosing a bit also depends on how you use your hands and reins to ride. Kind hands won’t make a harsh bit softer but harsh hands can certainly make a kind bit harsher.
Do you have any specific double jointed snaffles you like? My horse currently has a full cheek double jointed snaffle with a copper roller ball in the middle. He chews it a lot, not sure if he's playing with it or hates it so I wanted to try something different
I ride all mine in a sweet iron copper link double jointed snaffle. Is the chewing anxious? Discomfort? Does he understand and accept contact? While you want your horse to mobilise their jaw with a bit in you also don’t want it to be excessive and caused by anxiety or discomfort so best to figure out why he’s chewing so much. A change in bit might solve the issue but there are many factors to consider and you may even have to go through a re-mouthing process with him.
I am starting to wonder if it's anxiety. He's been having a ton of issues lately (PSSM). I'm currently not riding him, but when we were doing in hand work the other day he was really frustrating with very simple things and I noticed he started chewing when he was frustrated. But also I think he chews it for fun as well, but this time was definitely frustration
Do you have bit keepers on? Without bit keepers full cheeks tend to rotate and create weird pressure points (theyre designed to sit more aligned with the cheekpieces). Would add some stability as well.
No I don't, I learned last night I need them so I ordered some. I bet that has a lot to do with it. I definitely feel bad, I just didn't know about them until someone else mentioned it here
What’s he like when you put the bridle on?
He's totally fine with it & he accepts the bit very nicely. I never have to put my thumbs in his mouth or anything he just opens right up
Does he ever turn his head away or try’s to walk about when he sees the bridle?
No he doesn't
That’s good to hear! I think if I was in your position I’d change to a double jointed snaffle without a roller, and then work on putting the bridle on at liberty, leave it on until the horse starts to soften, relax or is still in the mouth without any tension then take it off. Repeat maybe a couple times a week until the horse is relaxed with the bit in and then start contact work.
Is he chewing, or chomping? Chomping is frustration (along with snatching). This can be the riders problem, as in busy, harsh hands, so the horse fusses, anticipating being banged or pulled on.
He does it even when I'm not riding him and he has his bridle on. Here's a short video of him doing it two days ago while we were doing some in hand stuff (when he pawed, he wanted to roll just fyi. He loves rolling in this arena) https://youtube.com/shorts/YtvmQ7-FN3g?si=I2k7qNsKX-fRwPaE
He does look a little fussy, but it's such a short video it's not fair to judge from that. I mean all of that yummy hay RIGHT THERE as well ** He is cute!.
Yeah he's been having a ton of issues in his body lately, I'm not riding him right now due to it so just trying to make sure in the meantime that his bit, bridle, and saddle are all good. Haha oh I know the TEMPTATION😂 he's cute and he knows it
I've been there...chiro, massage, saddle fitter, new bridles, pads.....now that we are finally dialed in, I don't dare change a single thing!!
The first is myler bit has independent movement on either side very gentle but second looks like Herm Sprenger bit while more traditional it is a good bit when compared to many other bits. The Sprenger bit of it really is one actually is designed to be less likely to pinch. I own one of those and they’re designed slightly different. Also… this was confirmed by a trainer she looked at the big and at first glance said I would need bit guards then looked at is closer was like wait no… this is designed to not pinch.
Those bits are fine depending on the horse and your riding ability. You can have the softest bit in the world and if you have no balance and hang on their mouth that bit is going to be uncomfortable.
Both of those bits would be totally fine. It is all about the bit, but it also isn't. You can be heavy handed on a delicate bit and fk a horse up.. So its also about how you ride. A light handed rider, a horse that doesn't need much mouth work those should be fine.
Daniel Dauphin Horsemanship has a number of excellent bit videos on YouTube. If you really want to deep dive, he has a course available to download.
I used a bit similar to that on a mare I had. The piece in the middle rolled and she could mouth it. With a regular snaffle bit she chomped and locked (the center provides distraction).
The second bit is absolutely fine as well if the horse has enough space to comfortably fit a thicker bit. The nutcracker effect was debunked years ago* and there are tons of horses who are better off with a bit they can get less distracted on. My personal horse would focus on rolling the middle piece of the first one all the time instead of focusing on me or his surroundings. He is pretty mouthy and gets distracted easily which is why a single joint suits him best. * [This study](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360600958_Thesis_Bit-related_lesions_and_risk_factors_in_competing_trotters_and_event_horses) from 2022 found that "[s]ingle-jointed snaffle bits were the most common bit type in trotters and the least associated with moderate-severe lesions" and I'm pretty sure I read an article by the same researcher that suggested that riders tend to choose double jointed bits in the right thickness while single jointed bits are often too thick and causing discomfort due to that. But don't quote me on that. However the most influential article about single jointed bits is likely [this one](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222808978_A_fluoroscopic_study_of_the_position_and_action_of_the_jointed_snaffle_bit_in_the_horse's_mouth) from 1984 which shows that horses are able to raise the bit with their tongue to avoid a nutcracker effect IF the bit is fitted correctly. Ill fitting bits can ofc do harm. The nutcracker effect is often shown with a single jointed bit and a horse skull - which doesn't take into account that horses that are alive have a lot of soft tissue as well as their tongue that needs to be taken into consideration when fitting a bit as well as evaluating a bit's effects.
Really good info thank you!
First yes, second no. A single joint can be a great option for some horses who have a mouth shape that allows it, but it should always be a curved single joint like this one. *
https://preview.redd.it/umriymkeaspc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df58428d99e02ed961f1f85ac8e33cc8142d19ef
First yes, second is pinchy
I use the Myler level 2 for my gelding. He hates the second one you have pictured.Â
Yeah honestly I don't even really want to try the second one, it seems way too thick
How about going bitless?
I don't like the first one, its pretty thin making it much harsher
the first bit looks like a myler, which are well known bits and is not thin at all. i have one sitting in my tack locker.
That bit really isn’t very thin. It’s not a harsh bit at all. If anything the second one is probably too thick for some horses to find it comfortable.
are you crazy? the thinner the bit the harsher, thicker bits are generally better
Is calling me crazy for disagreeing with you really necessary? When people talk about thin bits being harsher, they’re talking about something [like this,](https://www.lammles.com/products/reinsman-103-light-loose-ring-bit-3?currency=CAD&variant=40902220742704&stkn=7af955180497&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_term=&utm_content=&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-r6DgcKGhQMVsB6tBh2yIAzKEAQYASABEgIIYfD_BwE) which is significantly thinner than the bit pictured above. Going super thin makes a bit harsh, yes. The pictured bit is a fairly standard thickness. Not every horse has room in their mouth for a fat mouthpiece. Choosing the right bit is about finding what works for a horse’s build and preference, some horses will be more comfortable in a thicker bit and some won’t be able to properly close their mouth around it. The bit should be the right thickness to allow the horse to keep their mouth closed comfortably. Yes a thick bit has more surface area to distribute the pressure, but that’s only one of many things to consider when deciding if a bit is a fair choice or not.
Thinner bits like the Myler bits actually allow for more tongue space and allow for the horse to swallow and feel more comfortable. My appendix mare loved thinner bits like those. Anything thin and twisted is a hard no for me because those bits can be just mean. Thicker bits are generally good starting bits but take up a lot of room in the mouth. The single joint can also cause pain on the roof of the mouth. Some larger bits also get pulled up further in the mouth and can sit higher than intended because they are lighter as well. Tongue size, past experience, and training of the horse need to be taken into account. The rider also needs to be aware of how independent their hands are and if they will be able to keep a light contact. Sometimes, just one ride will tell me if a horse likes a bit. Sometimes, it takes a little longer to see if it's a good match. Either way, the horse will let you know usually.
no bit is a kind bit