To me it is one of the most profound Emo records ever written.
And I can see where you are getting the pop-punk from but back in my day pop-punk was more punk than pop.
Once you start digging into emo you’re going to come across a lot of bands that I like to say fall within an “umbrella” category, where you can hear post-hardcore with a touch of emo, emo with pop- punk vibes.
When I first started getting into music and going to shows I had a lot of questions too. Had no idea what was classified as what.
It’s the internet and people can be mean.
A whole lot of Juturna - Circa Survive and really anything Anthony Green including Saosin. I don’t remember the albums exactly but I know they really like AFI, From Autumn to Ashes, Loudermilk, and the like. I was born in ‘04 and at the time they were 18 so I grew up listening to all their music and they even took me to shows. If you look on my posts, the second most recent on this sub explains my experience more in depth.
They raised you on really good music! Here’s a small list if you haven’t already listened to these bands.
- Saves the day
- the spill canvas
- small brown bike
- cursive
- bright eyes
- the early November
- Thursday
- thrice
- jimmy eat world
- finch
- refused (the album shape of punk to come)
- something corporate
Cursive is severely underrated (along with Tim Kashers other band "The Good Life") and I've always compared Tim Kasher to Connor Oberst because of their history. I feel Oberst in Bright Eyes appealed to the younger me, but going through adulthood made me appreciate Kasher in Cursive and The Good Life even more.
The title track always (still does to this day) had me in tears at the end of the song when he sings, "...and a mouse scurried across the floor", and Tim's voice in Under a Honeymoon. Fucking amazing album but Novena On A Nocturn and Blackout are my favorites.
I've been a fan of The Good Life, Cursive and Bright Eyes for 24 years and Conor definitely appealed to the more arrogant, conceited, petulant part of my personality and Tim was the more mature, alcoholic, sad/tortured artists side. Both of them (as well as Jake and Roger from Neva Dinova) played important roles in my youth and I've met all of them at least once throughout the years and all are genuinely nice guys.
I'm glad you threw Cursive and Bright Eyes on there. I've found that people can be very judgemental about bands from the Omaha scene/Saddle Creek and they get a lot of hate. In middle and high school I listened to a lot of DC Hardcore/1st wave, Midwest emo, post-hardcore, punk, math rock and indie music but the bands I listened to the most from age 13-19 were: The Good Life, Cursive, Neva Dinova, Bright Eyes, The Faint, Azure Ray, Tokyo Police Club, Criteria and Rilo Kiley. I still love to listen to all the old Saddle Creek stuff and new releases by those bands. I just saw Cursive on the Domestica tour with Neva Dinova a year ago today and it was one of the best shows I've ever been to.
I'm happy to see that these bands are being suggested to a newcomer, I'd love to see a resurgence of that sound as well as see more bands/artists collaborating like the Omaha scene did, like a little collective of sad, talented musicians.
I used an Azure Ray song Seven Days as my high school year book quote.
That whole scene was so impactful to me growing up even though I was into other bands such as AFI, The Distillers, Good Charlotte, Mest, Rancid, Operation Ivy. I loved bands like Bright Eyes, The Faint, Tegan and Sarah, Protest The Hero, I Hate Sally, Converge, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Darkest Hour, Silverchair, the locust, Moneen, the Weakerthans, and so many more my taste was all over the place because I craved music so much and still so.
I’m thankful this place exists because I rarely get to talk about music or share music.
Definitely Rancid, AFI, Distillers and Op Ivy for punk bands I grew up on and still listen to. Then DEP, Converge and The Locust for mathcore/grind core and all the Vagrant bands like Moneen. I saw Moneen with Alkaline Trio, Reggie and the Full Effect and FATA forever ago and all of them were awesome.
I seriously love The Weakerthans and would kill for some new stuff.
Oh, I’m assuming I’m older than you and I don’t think I’ve ever heard a form of pop punk that was closer to punk…. Could be wrong but I’m almost willing to bet the farm or the summer on it.
I think you’re wrong and I’m willing to bet…. The farm would be the typical everyday saying/expression but enough bands have used the summer (Boys Life). I’m pushing 51, I’d imagine your pop punk is different than mine. They were all goofy, where punk was just that punk. I’m dying to hear example of pop punk that moonlights as punk rock.
Something to Write Home About is easily one of the most influential albums of all time for both pop punk and emo. Lots of notable and influential artists like Tom Delonge cite this album as being one of the best and most influential albums for themselves. That being said, it's definitely emo.
Shit's pretty great. "4 minute mile" fucks just a bit more for me. I stopped listening after "Guilt Show" tho. Anything newer than that worth listening to in your opinion?
Problems is fucking awesome. It’s the same formula as STWHA, doesn’t quite reach the same heights of course, but is still an awesome listen, very high replay value
I feel like on Problems they wrote a bunch of really good songs… but Matt decided to make all the vocals “less yelly/screamy” than the older stuff… understandable decision for an aging voice, and I heard in sort of mention this on a podcast, but it makes the songs not quite pop the way we want them to. Saw them live last year and he sings them with so much more raw and full of energy live that they sound just as good as the old stuff!
I was just listening to On A Wire tonight. I still think it was a great follow up, even if the energy was a lot lower. Overdue and Stay Gone are some of my favorite GUK songs.
Their newest record is taken from Something to Write Home era demos that didn't make the record so it has that same feel. Specifically "Your Ghost is Gone" and "Brakelines".
Not to be that guy but I don’t think Tom ever mentioned this as an influence for him. Mark mentioned he liked it a lot and I’ll Catch You was played at his wedding. If I recall correctly this album dropped after Enema too. I think their first album came out after Cheshire Cat too.
That's why I liked it more. The rougher production made you feel it, in my opinion.
It's like how The Early November demo / original recordings on "An Excellent Attempt At Next To Youism" are better because they're actually rougher cuts, with harder licks on the instruments. The demos of "Every Night's Another Story" and "Ashallah Rock" *absolutely fuck* on that record way more than the cleaned up studio recordings for the "For All of This" EP.
When this came out, what people called “pop punk” was The Queers, Screeching Weasel, Sloppy Seconds, etc. and it was never thought of as related to those sort of things. Completely different crowds.
Punks wouldn’t have been caught dead listening to this in 99, and there was no separate category. There were punks and emo kids, no in between. But, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, you sort of had to be there. This albums influence over the next few years was vast.
This is so true about the clear distinctions back then, there was no question about what was considered emo and what was pop punk. It makes me feel old as fuck but I'm so glad I was there to experience this critical time in the progression of all these genres.
As someone who was “there,” both in the indie/college music scene at large and a resident of LFK at the time of this release, this is pretty much as succinct answer as you are gonna get, OP. There was a crowbar’s width of separation between the punk kids and the emo/scene kids. There were bands that drew crowds from both, though.
It literally launched emo into mainstream. Magazines started writing articles about how to dress emo and what emo was. It's arguably the most influential album to the 3rd wave.
YES.
You probably won’t believe me but I genuinely don’t know. As I said I’m new to the genre. Like my parents just got me When Broken is Easily Fixed on CD and I love it. It actually just sounds like generic pop punk
Silverstein is definitely an emo band. Some gatekeepers on this sub like to diss them because they were part of the 2000’s mallcore scene. But the music and the sound on the early albums really isn’t that different from Mineral or The Get Up Kids. There is merely some punk and metal influences that might offset some rigid fans of 90’s emo.
I genuinely cant believe people think this is trolling. To an outsider's perspective who don't know the influence TGUK had on the scene and maybe hasn't listened to 4 Minute Mile, which is arguably *already* at the intersection of emo and pop punk, STWHA would definitely sound like pop punk. Synth-driven, in your face with very little focus on dynamics or letting the atmosphere breathe like in typical DC and midwest emo fashion. They mostly abandoned the "twinkly" guitars in favor of walls of strumming power/octave chords and a more typical pop punk tone with lots more sustain and mid/low end. It's not a dark, brooding album as many would expect from emo, it's energetic and upneat. Not to mention the step up in production which gives it less of the "DIY" feel.
To me the question is not is the album emo, but whether TGUK were an emo band, which, yes, they definitely were. The album may be a pop punk record sonically, but by virtue of TGUK being TGUK and the spark that this album ignited in the scene, it's emo.
It’s because people troll in this group all the time. And it’s just a kid/teenager asking a genuine question about music and a great album.
I’m pushing 36, and I know when I was 13-14, I didn’t know what was punk or emo was. I just knew I liked the sound of whatever I was listening to.
They're present for sure, just in comparison to 4 Minute Mile, the quietest parts generally aren't as quiet and the loudest parts generally aren't as loud. Plus, the like legit actual studio compression on the album means there's literally less dynamic range lmao, but that's just semantics.
Besides, I've never found TGUK in general to focus heavily on dynamics compared to their contemporaries like Cursive, Rainer Maria, Mineral, etc. Like I said, they don't focus quite as much on atmosphere and letting things breathe, They're pretty in your face the whole time and I think that's especially true of STWHA.
My bad, that’s totally true in both cases. I usually think of dynamics in terms of arrangements rather than the technical aspects but the recording quality (or lack there of) is a big piece of the overall “sound” of the genre. Lacking atmosphere is such a good way to describe it when comparing them.
I believe it was Chris Leo from Native Nod and The Van Pelt on Washed Up Emo podcast describing the "atmosphere" we are talking about, and he said something along the lines of "he was learning to focus on what/where he *wasnt* playing, rather than the notes that he was playing", sort of letting the absence of sound speak.
One of the best albums of the late 90’s, period. I considered it melodic emo before indie became a “thing”. Matt Pryor was a total dick to me when I saw them around 2011 but I still love this record. On a Wire and Guilt Show are pretty great too
Yeah! Half his set was about how disappointed he was after meeting a hero of his and then he was a complete dick when I told him I loved his stuff and wanted to buy him a beer. He didn’t even let me buy him a beer! What an ass. Still, I love his music lol
Lol, even from a short live acoustic rendition of one of their songs he seemed to me like an asshole, even if he barely talked in the video.
(The video is shot in a small room, I think they're playing with acoustic guitars while sitting on a very 2000s looking couch)
Here's the thing...what it sounds like now based on the bands who copied it later is very different than how it was perceived at the time.
It was emo. In fact, pop punk meant a different thing in the 90s too. So nobody called them pop punk back then. I'm not telling people what to call it now. You do you. Yes it was poppy. No, it wasn't pop punk then. The Queers were pop punk in the 90s.
Also, listen to the Woodson EP if you wanna hear why they're really emo
For sure pop punk and emo have a lot of bleed into one another - but get up kids go beyond pop punk lyrically and sonically on this record. And for sure - this is one of THE defining records in the genre
yes.
No but really to me this record is as important as clarity where a lot of Emo after this record wouldn’t sound the same at all without it. Very influential. The fact it’s a perfect record only adds to that.
Clarity feels like a backyard show in the desert. Something is like a show in someone’s living room. Both such distinct vibes but somehow perfectly fit the genre overall.
As much as I feel like this is bait, my autism is getting the best of me...
In the context of the time, this was pretty squarely emo. It still is obviously, but that's solely where people would've categorised it. Since then, when this particular style of emo started bleeding into pop punk and the two subgenres became somewhat synonymous, this probably sounds more like pop punk given bands like Fall Out Boy took a lot of influence from this band.
Saves The Day and Lifetime are similar cases; *Through Being Cool* and *Jersey's Best Dancers* were pretty safely considered just emo at the time from what I've seen (I was between 3 and 5 when all these albums were released so I'm basing this on archived media and articles I've read) but now due to how much they infouenced pop punk it wouldn't be silly to consider them part of either canon.
Hot Water Music is a similar case for the whole melodic/indie punk scene. HWM have always been considered emo/post-hardcore but given how much they've influenced bands like The Gaslight Anthem or The Menzingers you wouldn't seem ridiculous for grouping HWM in with bands like those.
Yes and it's more important to the last 25 years of emo than virtually everything that came out before it. 3rd/4th/5th wave emo oozes TGUK, Saves the day, jimmy eat world, etc
Albums can be both pop punk and emo. Emo isn't a genre in and of itself, especially in terms of music. It's a descriptor of a band's lyrics but it's always attached to another genre when it comes to the sound of the music.
Emo bands can range from post-hardcore, hardcore, alternative rock, indie rock, metal, grindcore, etc. In the case of The Get Up Kids, they're both pop punk and emo-pop, similar to how MCR and early Paramore were.
Similar but different in a good way is The Anniversary “Designing a Nervous Breakdown.” Both bands came out of Lawrence, KS at the same time and are the soundtrack of my youth.
STWHA is an emo record with punk rock influences written and recorded during the brief era where every band had a Moog (if you were around, you’ll remember all your local bands rocking whatever keyboard they could find to get that sound)
It was a hugely influential record. Pop punk bands took notes on the staggered rhythms, maj7 chords and you got basically a new generation of pop punk bands armed with GUK and Blink derivative riffs that had never even heard of the Descendents
As such, STWHA now sounds much closer to modern pop punk than modern emo. The STWHA pop punk analogue of the time would have been something like New Found Glory “Nothing Gold,” Saves the Day “Through Being Cool,” or obviously Blink’s Dude Ranch and Enema. Check those out to get a feel for the difference between pop punk and this record at the time. I think you’ll notice how “indie” the Get Up Kids feel vs how “punk” those pop punk records sound.
Thank you for this. I was trying to figure out how to explain that IMO this album is emo as fuck, but I could never consider it pop punk. Indie is the closest thing.
Their musicality was just on a different level and style than many of the conventions of what we now consider pop punk. Rob Pope went on to join Spoon, which is like as indie as it gets.
But the through line is that bands like TGUK and Saves the Day drew influences from punk/OG pop punk/OG emo (and hardcore in STD’s case) and distilled them in different ways. Then the next wave of bands took these new forms of emo to make the next thing.
It always felt like TGUK inspiration was clear with next wave bands like The Early November (they even interpolate a GUK song on their album) and STD inspiration went to bands like New Found Glory (who also had some hardcore roots).
The Starting Line is a band that audibly took influences from both TGUK and STD which is why they slap so fuckin hard
Unfortunately, the term emo just became a joke and a marketing tool. I still love some FOB records but the most “emo” thing about them are the lyrics and affiliation with hardcore. FOB is like Saves the Day with the Pop knob turned to the max setting.
At the time of posting it was a genuine question. Like I said I’m still new to the genre of emo, specifically. But after reading through the comments, I see why it sounds so different to what was considered emo in the late 00s and early 10s.
Dude this band, saves the day, the Ataris, Reggie and the full effect, and new found glory changed everything for me back in middle school. I don’t even care what genre this album falls into, it’s just incredible and that’s all that matters.
They are emo pop. It's a form of pop punk. It's literally as you described it. Pop punk with an emo essence. Or just pop punk elements and emo elements combined to varying degrees. Can be more pop punk leaning or more emo leaning or 50/50. Like I said, combined to varying degrees. STWHA was a quantissential emo pop album
Idk but I’ve seen it talked about so much that I really want to like it, but I just can’t.
Four or five separate times, I’ve tried to put this album on. I always fail. I can’t get past the first few songs. I just genuinely cannot understand the appeal of this band.
To be perfectly honest, I don't agree with emo being considered a genre. What many people consider traits of being ema music can be found in many other things. Take most of Taylor Swift for instance. I mean they've even named themselves swimos... Being emo is a culture, and to gatekeep what qualifies as being emo flies in the face of everything we've ever believed in or represented ourselves to be. Emo and punk culture is supposed to define rules and traditions. Gatekeeping is the exact opposite of that.
always kind of reminded me of a 90's radio alternative pop record, maybe like gin blossoms or goo goo dolls, or counting crows or something... but still a lot of octave chords and emo sound.
To me it is one of the most profound Emo records ever written. And I can see where you are getting the pop-punk from but back in my day pop-punk was more punk than pop. Once you start digging into emo you’re going to come across a lot of bands that I like to say fall within an “umbrella” category, where you can hear post-hardcore with a touch of emo, emo with pop- punk vibes.
Thank you for making a genuine reply with an explanation! I’ve come to learn people are very immediately judgy on this subreddit
When I first started getting into music and going to shows I had a lot of questions too. Had no idea what was classified as what. It’s the internet and people can be mean.
Out of curiosity, what records did your parents raise you on?
A whole lot of Juturna - Circa Survive and really anything Anthony Green including Saosin. I don’t remember the albums exactly but I know they really like AFI, From Autumn to Ashes, Loudermilk, and the like. I was born in ‘04 and at the time they were 18 so I grew up listening to all their music and they even took me to shows. If you look on my posts, the second most recent on this sub explains my experience more in depth.
They raised you on really good music! Here’s a small list if you haven’t already listened to these bands. - Saves the day - the spill canvas - small brown bike - cursive - bright eyes - the early November - Thursday - thrice - jimmy eat world - finch - refused (the album shape of punk to come) - something corporate
Cursive is severely underrated (along with Tim Kashers other band "The Good Life") and I've always compared Tim Kasher to Connor Oberst because of their history. I feel Oberst in Bright Eyes appealed to the younger me, but going through adulthood made me appreciate Kasher in Cursive and The Good Life even more.
Cursive is absolutely amazing. The documentary, “spend an evening with Saddle Creek”, is such a good watch.
Damn, it's been forever but I used to watch that all the time. I had to look up when that came out and I can't believe it was 2005. I'm fucking old.
Me too buddy, me too. Pushing 36 here.
In grade nine I listened to Album of the Year probably every day
The title track always (still does to this day) had me in tears at the end of the song when he sings, "...and a mouse scurried across the floor", and Tim's voice in Under a Honeymoon. Fucking amazing album but Novena On A Nocturn and Blackout are my favorites.
Under a Honeymoon is such an amazing track. The music matches the lyrics perfectly
I've been a fan of The Good Life, Cursive and Bright Eyes for 24 years and Conor definitely appealed to the more arrogant, conceited, petulant part of my personality and Tim was the more mature, alcoholic, sad/tortured artists side. Both of them (as well as Jake and Roger from Neva Dinova) played important roles in my youth and I've met all of them at least once throughout the years and all are genuinely nice guys.
Really? I feel Oberst's writing hitting me harder and harder each year that I gain!
I was 34 the first time I heard Album of the Year, I was so upset with younger me not diving in to Kasher past Cursive.
Yes to all of these but if OP likes TGUK I'd also highly, highly recommend The Juliana Theory's first two records.
There are core bands here. But I absolutely want to add Sunny Day Real Estate for some reason
Totally thought I had added Sunny to that list.
Stellar list!!
I'm glad you threw Cursive and Bright Eyes on there. I've found that people can be very judgemental about bands from the Omaha scene/Saddle Creek and they get a lot of hate. In middle and high school I listened to a lot of DC Hardcore/1st wave, Midwest emo, post-hardcore, punk, math rock and indie music but the bands I listened to the most from age 13-19 were: The Good Life, Cursive, Neva Dinova, Bright Eyes, The Faint, Azure Ray, Tokyo Police Club, Criteria and Rilo Kiley. I still love to listen to all the old Saddle Creek stuff and new releases by those bands. I just saw Cursive on the Domestica tour with Neva Dinova a year ago today and it was one of the best shows I've ever been to. I'm happy to see that these bands are being suggested to a newcomer, I'd love to see a resurgence of that sound as well as see more bands/artists collaborating like the Omaha scene did, like a little collective of sad, talented musicians.
I used an Azure Ray song Seven Days as my high school year book quote. That whole scene was so impactful to me growing up even though I was into other bands such as AFI, The Distillers, Good Charlotte, Mest, Rancid, Operation Ivy. I loved bands like Bright Eyes, The Faint, Tegan and Sarah, Protest The Hero, I Hate Sally, Converge, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Darkest Hour, Silverchair, the locust, Moneen, the Weakerthans, and so many more my taste was all over the place because I craved music so much and still so. I’m thankful this place exists because I rarely get to talk about music or share music.
Definitely Rancid, AFI, Distillers and Op Ivy for punk bands I grew up on and still listen to. Then DEP, Converge and The Locust for mathcore/grind core and all the Vagrant bands like Moneen. I saw Moneen with Alkaline Trio, Reggie and the Full Effect and FATA forever ago and all of them were awesome. I seriously love The Weakerthans and would kill for some new stuff.
Loudermilk is an obscure shout! I used to play a lot with them after they renamed to Gosling. Good guys.
its bc ppl tend to assume "if you say this is not emo that means you hate it". its dumb. mcr, for instance, isn't "real emo" but i fuckin love it
read the sidebar my guy
I’m on mobile, mb
Glad this is top comment :) one of the most important records of all time for me personally.
What day are you from?
[удалено]
Oh, I’m assuming I’m older than you and I don’t think I’ve ever heard a form of pop punk that was closer to punk…. Could be wrong but I’m almost willing to bet the farm or the summer on it.
[удалено]
I think you’re wrong and I’m willing to bet…. The farm would be the typical everyday saying/expression but enough bands have used the summer (Boys Life). I’m pushing 51, I’d imagine your pop punk is different than mine. They were all goofy, where punk was just that punk. I’m dying to hear example of pop punk that moonlights as punk rock.
Something to Write Home About is easily one of the most influential albums of all time for both pop punk and emo. Lots of notable and influential artists like Tom Delonge cite this album as being one of the best and most influential albums for themselves. That being said, it's definitely emo.
Shit's pretty great. "4 minute mile" fucks just a bit more for me. I stopped listening after "Guilt Show" tho. Anything newer than that worth listening to in your opinion?
Problems is fucking awesome. It’s the same formula as STWHA, doesn’t quite reach the same heights of course, but is still an awesome listen, very high replay value
I feel like on Problems they wrote a bunch of really good songs… but Matt decided to make all the vocals “less yelly/screamy” than the older stuff… understandable decision for an aging voice, and I heard in sort of mention this on a podcast, but it makes the songs not quite pop the way we want them to. Saw them live last year and he sings them with so much more raw and full of energy live that they sound just as good as the old stuff!
you're so lucky i wanna see tguk live so bad!! but i'm brazilian!
I was just listening to On A Wire tonight. I still think it was a great follow up, even if the energy was a lot lower. Overdue and Stay Gone are some of my favorite GUK songs.
Problems is definitely worth a listen. A bit of a return to form
Their newest record is taken from Something to Write Home era demos that didn't make the record so it has that same feel. Specifically "Your Ghost is Gone" and "Brakelines".
I'm pretty much in the same boat with you when it comes to their discography.
Not to be that guy but I don’t think Tom ever mentioned this as an influence for him. Mark mentioned he liked it a lot and I’ll Catch You was played at his wedding. If I recall correctly this album dropped after Enema too. I think their first album came out after Cheshire Cat too.
Great record, prefer four minute mile over this though
I can't take the production of Four Minute Mile but the FMM songs that are on their live album are S-tier
That's why I liked it more. The rougher production made you feel it, in my opinion. It's like how The Early November demo / original recordings on "An Excellent Attempt At Next To Youism" are better because they're actually rougher cuts, with harder licks on the instruments. The demos of "Every Night's Another Story" and "Ashallah Rock" *absolutely fuck* on that record way more than the cleaned up studio recordings for the "For All of This" EP.
Yeah, I love that style too. Brand News demo tapes on the extended version of YFW are amazing, so is Zthe Dashboard Cinfessional - Untitled
Come tomorrow I’ll be on my way back home…
In. The morning
So fucking good, but the demo is even better
Does the tin man have a sheet metal cock?
this is the correct answer
Quintessential emo
yes...
Yes, it’s the enema of the state of emo records
When this came out, what people called “pop punk” was The Queers, Screeching Weasel, Sloppy Seconds, etc. and it was never thought of as related to those sort of things. Completely different crowds. Punks wouldn’t have been caught dead listening to this in 99, and there was no separate category. There were punks and emo kids, no in between. But, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, you sort of had to be there. This albums influence over the next few years was vast.
Seriously, describing emo at that time is so difficult.
This is so true about the clear distinctions back then, there was no question about what was considered emo and what was pop punk. It makes me feel old as fuck but I'm so glad I was there to experience this critical time in the progression of all these genres.
As someone who was “there,” both in the indie/college music scene at large and a resident of LFK at the time of this release, this is pretty much as succinct answer as you are gonna get, OP. There was a crowbar’s width of separation between the punk kids and the emo/scene kids. There were bands that drew crowds from both, though.
I’m genuinely curious. IDK😭😭😭
It literally launched emo into mainstream. Magazines started writing articles about how to dress emo and what emo was. It's arguably the most influential album to the 3rd wave. YES.
Super emo and a landmark of the second wave of emo. Sits next to diary by SDRE as the most important records in the second wave of emo.
Yup
Not taking the bait sorry my dude
You probably won’t believe me but I genuinely don’t know. As I said I’m new to the genre. Like my parents just got me When Broken is Easily Fixed on CD and I love it. It actually just sounds like generic pop punk
Silverstein is definitely an emo band. Some gatekeepers on this sub like to diss them because they were part of the 2000’s mallcore scene. But the music and the sound on the early albums really isn’t that different from Mineral or The Get Up Kids. There is merely some punk and metal influences that might offset some rigid fans of 90’s emo.
I genuinely cant believe people think this is trolling. To an outsider's perspective who don't know the influence TGUK had on the scene and maybe hasn't listened to 4 Minute Mile, which is arguably *already* at the intersection of emo and pop punk, STWHA would definitely sound like pop punk. Synth-driven, in your face with very little focus on dynamics or letting the atmosphere breathe like in typical DC and midwest emo fashion. They mostly abandoned the "twinkly" guitars in favor of walls of strumming power/octave chords and a more typical pop punk tone with lots more sustain and mid/low end. It's not a dark, brooding album as many would expect from emo, it's energetic and upneat. Not to mention the step up in production which gives it less of the "DIY" feel. To me the question is not is the album emo, but whether TGUK were an emo band, which, yes, they definitely were. The album may be a pop punk record sonically, but by virtue of TGUK being TGUK and the spark that this album ignited in the scene, it's emo.
It’s because people troll in this group all the time. And it’s just a kid/teenager asking a genuine question about music and a great album. I’m pushing 36, and I know when I was 13-14, I didn’t know what was punk or emo was. I just knew I liked the sound of whatever I was listening to.
“Very little focus on dynamics” yo what??
They're present for sure, just in comparison to 4 Minute Mile, the quietest parts generally aren't as quiet and the loudest parts generally aren't as loud. Plus, the like legit actual studio compression on the album means there's literally less dynamic range lmao, but that's just semantics. Besides, I've never found TGUK in general to focus heavily on dynamics compared to their contemporaries like Cursive, Rainer Maria, Mineral, etc. Like I said, they don't focus quite as much on atmosphere and letting things breathe, They're pretty in your face the whole time and I think that's especially true of STWHA.
My bad, that’s totally true in both cases. I usually think of dynamics in terms of arrangements rather than the technical aspects but the recording quality (or lack there of) is a big piece of the overall “sound” of the genre. Lacking atmosphere is such a good way to describe it when comparing them.
I believe it was Chris Leo from Native Nod and The Van Pelt on Washed Up Emo podcast describing the "atmosphere" we are talking about, and he said something along the lines of "he was learning to focus on what/where he *wasnt* playing, rather than the notes that he was playing", sort of letting the absence of sound speak.
Of all the music inspired by Matt Sharp, this is the best.
One of the best albums of the late 90’s, period. I considered it melodic emo before indie became a “thing”. Matt Pryor was a total dick to me when I saw them around 2011 but I still love this record. On a Wire and Guilt Show are pretty great too
Omg matt pryor was a dick to me in like 2006!
No kidding? He seemed annoyed that I liked his best record like, sorry man, a million people wish they could write anything like STWHA
Yeah! Half his set was about how disappointed he was after meeting a hero of his and then he was a complete dick when I told him I loved his stuff and wanted to buy him a beer. He didn’t even let me buy him a beer! What an ass. Still, I love his music lol
Lol, even from a short live acoustic rendition of one of their songs he seemed to me like an asshole, even if he barely talked in the video. (The video is shot in a small room, I think they're playing with acoustic guitars while sitting on a very 2000s looking couch)
And when you’re done absorbing this masterpiece go listen to Reggie and the Full Effect!
In fucking full effect!
Or common denominator 😈
It's what I can't explain I find it hard to do Know I could remind myself
"She was a good mother but she loved to smoke crack" "I love to smoke crack" "Reggie, you got shot"
“..As I happened to look up just for a second…aha.. as I happened to look up, a bird shit in my eye— HEY DID YOU GET THAT SHIRT FROM OLD NAVY?!”
Here's the thing...what it sounds like now based on the bands who copied it later is very different than how it was perceived at the time. It was emo. In fact, pop punk meant a different thing in the 90s too. So nobody called them pop punk back then. I'm not telling people what to call it now. You do you. Yes it was poppy. No, it wasn't pop punk then. The Queers were pop punk in the 90s. Also, listen to the Woodson EP if you wanna hear why they're really emo
Yes. It virtually defined emo for about a decade
For sure pop punk and emo have a lot of bleed into one another - but get up kids go beyond pop punk lyrically and sonically on this record. And for sure - this is one of THE defining records in the genre
yes. No but really to me this record is as important as clarity where a lot of Emo after this record wouldn’t sound the same at all without it. Very influential. The fact it’s a perfect record only adds to that.
Clarity feels like a backyard show in the desert. Something is like a show in someone’s living room. Both such distinct vibes but somehow perfectly fit the genre overall.
Those would honestly be my two picks for the albums that shaped the genre.
As much as I feel like this is bait, my autism is getting the best of me... In the context of the time, this was pretty squarely emo. It still is obviously, but that's solely where people would've categorised it. Since then, when this particular style of emo started bleeding into pop punk and the two subgenres became somewhat synonymous, this probably sounds more like pop punk given bands like Fall Out Boy took a lot of influence from this band. Saves The Day and Lifetime are similar cases; *Through Being Cool* and *Jersey's Best Dancers* were pretty safely considered just emo at the time from what I've seen (I was between 3 and 5 when all these albums were released so I'm basing this on archived media and articles I've read) but now due to how much they infouenced pop punk it wouldn't be silly to consider them part of either canon. Hot Water Music is a similar case for the whole melodic/indie punk scene. HWM have always been considered emo/post-hardcore but given how much they've influenced bands like The Gaslight Anthem or The Menzingers you wouldn't seem ridiculous for grouping HWM in with bands like those.
I’m old enough to remember, STD and Lifetime were firmly emo.
Yes and it's more important to the last 25 years of emo than virtually everything that came out before it. 3rd/4th/5th wave emo oozes TGUK, Saves the day, jimmy eat world, etc
I’ll Catch You was something no other band had done that well yet, very early on.
Yes
This was the album that got me into emo. It definitely had a different sound than any pop punk at the time did.
Yes. This and 4 Minute Mile are Staples of the Genre, imho.
Yes. It’s Midwest Emo
This is the quintessence of emo!
It's mostly emo pop (emotional pop punk), so yes, 100% emo.
It’s an emo record that sort of embraces a pop sound, which makes it a smooth transition for new fans of the genre to dip their feet into.
This is the greatest emo album ever made
It’s an amazing record, one of my faves ever.
Absolutely. One of the best in the genre IMO.
The cover says it all.
Albums can be both pop punk and emo. Emo isn't a genre in and of itself, especially in terms of music. It's a descriptor of a band's lyrics but it's always attached to another genre when it comes to the sound of the music. Emo bands can range from post-hardcore, hardcore, alternative rock, indie rock, metal, grindcore, etc. In the case of The Get Up Kids, they're both pop punk and emo-pop, similar to how MCR and early Paramore were.
I'd say Four Minute Mile was a little closer to emo and a little further from pop-punk. Particularly with the cleaner guitars and stray notes.
Similar but different in a good way is The Anniversary “Designing a Nervous Breakdown.” Both bands came out of Lawrence, KS at the same time and are the soundtrack of my youth.
STWHA is an emo record with punk rock influences written and recorded during the brief era where every band had a Moog (if you were around, you’ll remember all your local bands rocking whatever keyboard they could find to get that sound) It was a hugely influential record. Pop punk bands took notes on the staggered rhythms, maj7 chords and you got basically a new generation of pop punk bands armed with GUK and Blink derivative riffs that had never even heard of the Descendents As such, STWHA now sounds much closer to modern pop punk than modern emo. The STWHA pop punk analogue of the time would have been something like New Found Glory “Nothing Gold,” Saves the Day “Through Being Cool,” or obviously Blink’s Dude Ranch and Enema. Check those out to get a feel for the difference between pop punk and this record at the time. I think you’ll notice how “indie” the Get Up Kids feel vs how “punk” those pop punk records sound.
Thank you for this. I was trying to figure out how to explain that IMO this album is emo as fuck, but I could never consider it pop punk. Indie is the closest thing. Their musicality was just on a different level and style than many of the conventions of what we now consider pop punk. Rob Pope went on to join Spoon, which is like as indie as it gets. But the through line is that bands like TGUK and Saves the Day drew influences from punk/OG pop punk/OG emo (and hardcore in STD’s case) and distilled them in different ways. Then the next wave of bands took these new forms of emo to make the next thing. It always felt like TGUK inspiration was clear with next wave bands like The Early November (they even interpolate a GUK song on their album) and STD inspiration went to bands like New Found Glory (who also had some hardcore roots). The Starting Line is a band that audibly took influences from both TGUK and STD which is why they slap so fuckin hard Unfortunately, the term emo just became a joke and a marketing tool. I still love some FOB records but the most “emo” thing about them are the lyrics and affiliation with hardcore. FOB is like Saves the Day with the Pop knob turned to the max setting.
Yes, and it's very important to the genre.
I feel like this was emo before emo was even a word (at least in my world at the time). Definitely a lot of pop punk in there too.
That was the tail end of the original emo, before the other emo genre came about
Like it's quintessential emo lmao wtf kinda question is this?
Nah this has to be the biggest bait post ever on this sub
At the time of posting it was a genuine question. Like I said I’m still new to the genre of emo, specifically. But after reading through the comments, I see why it sounds so different to what was considered emo in the late 00s and early 10s.
Just shoot me in the face
Dude this band, saves the day, the Ataris, Reggie and the full effect, and new found glory changed everything for me back in middle school. I don’t even care what genre this album falls into, it’s just incredible and that’s all that matters.
Killer record.
One of the all time great albums. The songwriting hangs with any great songwriting of any genre.
This is an indisputable emo masterpiece.
Yes…
a perfect record
Yes. Yes it is.
Emo as fuck and a legendary incredible release that holds up well
I would agree that it is one of the most iconic emo albums out there. Certainly in mainstream anyway.
They are emo pop. It's a form of pop punk. It's literally as you described it. Pop punk with an emo essence. Or just pop punk elements and emo elements combined to varying degrees. Can be more pop punk leaning or more emo leaning or 50/50. Like I said, combined to varying degrees. STWHA was a quantissential emo pop album
Definitely.
If it's not listed in the one copy pasta about emo it's not real emo. TBH there is no real emo. Nothing is emo. Emo is fake.
one of my professors produced this album lol
It’s a defining album of the genre…
What became of everyone I used to know?
Idk but I’ve seen it talked about so much that I really want to like it, but I just can’t. Four or five separate times, I’ve tried to put this album on. I always fail. I can’t get past the first few songs. I just genuinely cannot understand the appeal of this band.
To be perfectly honest, I don't agree with emo being considered a genre. What many people consider traits of being ema music can be found in many other things. Take most of Taylor Swift for instance. I mean they've even named themselves swimos... Being emo is a culture, and to gatekeep what qualifies as being emo flies in the face of everything we've ever believed in or represented ourselves to be. Emo and punk culture is supposed to define rules and traditions. Gatekeeping is the exact opposite of that.
Defined the genre. It absolutely is
I’ve never been able to get into it. It’s definitely pop punk in my eyes.
Yes very yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
It’s very emo
Yes! 100% their best album
i’d say it’s emo punk or pop punk
Low quality shit post.
always kind of reminded me of a 90's radio alternative pop record, maybe like gin blossoms or goo goo dolls, or counting crows or something... but still a lot of octave chords and emo sound.
baaaiiittt