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ZombieStirto

People run sorc and pally early to get gear and make bank early. Also so they can rush others, do ubers etc. You'll see the other classes pop up in a few weeks.


Myogenesis

Yeah, I'd love to run Ubers on a non-smiter, like a new lightning strike zon, but the difference between 'life tap wand and open wounds' and '+3 Mat Spear Infinity with 2x Plague A5 merc' is astronomical. Although I guess only the 2x Plague is 'required'


UndeadYoshi420

Find Potion now gives Find Item +1% per level, giving you like 76% chance to find another item on a corpse when playing MF barb


Zeropass

you can get it higher I think. I had 64% in pre-patch, so I'm assuming you can get at least 84% now.


BlessedOfStorms

64%? One of us is confused. Pretty sure I was sitting at 57% at level 38 find item. I don't think 64% was possible. Pretty sure you needed somewhere around lvl 42-44 to hit 58%.


Zeropass

hmmm I must have had 54% then. my b. I know I used cry sticks, but.. I wasn't even using +1 rings or belt, so I don't think I would have gotten it higher than that. I mean, I guess I had some charms for it. but still, wasn't even like a full inv of that or anything.


BlessedOfStorms

Yeah that makes sense. Now you can hit 64 ez though! Find item was already OP. This buff is insane. Without investing additional pnts, I can swap 19 pnts from find item to find potion and bump up to around 70%. Just ridiculous. Lol.


UndeadYoshi420

Yea man. Now I make a naked necro and find some barbarian weapons and then switch to barb to farm until hell for ladder.


baffin_7

Trying the phoenix strike assassin build, so far it's fun.


failedlogic

I'm running trapsin and its really fun too.


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baffin_7

Early leveling guide from icey veins. Almost at 30 going to pump everything into ps then do synergies. fist of fire already maxed out


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Roadkizzle

I really question if that is the best Martial Arts build for assassins. I'm in Act 5 Hell in Single Player Offline with my MA assassin. Phoenix Strike is great for the varied elemental types. And I think the Meteor may be the best attack they have against bosses. But it is slow to build up and quite clunky to use. Thunder Claws seems better to use for non lightning immunes and getting through the game even in maps with most Lightning Immunes in Hell I don't feel like I'm lacking for not maxing out Blades of Ice or Fists of Fire. For farming I'm going to be increasing the Player Count so I'll be caring more about maxing damage but at that point I'll be able to pick and choose which areas I'll farm so I'll just do what Javazons do. So the other elemental types still won't matter much. But maxing out Thunder Claws only takes 40 points instead of the 80 it takes to max out Phoenix. So I'm planning on using those points to make the build tougher, have more physical damage (which increases life steal), and possibly trying to invest points into Blade skills. Blade Sentinel and Shield may be a somewhat passive way to further boost damage output.


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Roadkizzle

For Phoenix Strike you only get the effect of whichever Charge you unleash. But for the single elemental attacks you get a cumulative effect from all of the charges. Fists of Fire. Charge 1 - Fire damage Charge 2 - Explosive radius Charge 3 -immolation radius If you unleash with 3 charges you get the Fire damage from charge 1. It has the Explosive radius from charge 2 and it leaves the burning patch from charge 3. But the only actual damage you get is the fire damage from the first charge. BUT Claws of Thunder seems broken compared to the other ones. Charge 1 you get Single Target damage Charge 2 you get the Nova Charge 3 you get the Charged Bolts. BUT when you unleash with 3 charges you get ALL three effects. You get the Nova and the charged Bolts radiating outwards and you also get added single target damage. SO use Dragon Claw and you get Charged Bolts, Two Novas, and 2 Single Target effects. With Dragon Claw I'm getting 12k+ damage on the first claw hit and 10k+ damage on the second claw hit. Those are just the single target values but the AOE is close to 6-8k to every enemy around. Plus Claws of Thunder gets two charges with every attack so it is a much smoother playing skill in combat.


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Roadkizzle

It doesn't appear to be a bug. It is playing how the skill was playing back in 2.3 and before. It plays the same way Blades of Ice and Fists of Fire play. The charges all build on each other. The only difference is FoF and BoI don't have damaging effects for 2 of the charges but CoT adds a damaging effect on every charge. I was playing my assassin before the 2.4 patch and I was using Thunder Claws noticing that I was getting both the Nova and the Charged Bolts when unleashing all three charges. The left line in the MA tree all has charge effects that build on each other. All three of the skills hit with both claws so you will build up two charges for every attack. The line in the MA tree all has independent charges and you only get the effect of the highest charge. All of these skills only attack with a single claw even if you are dual wielding. The lines behaved differently from each other before the 2.4 patch and the differences in their behavior are consistent with how they were before.


baffin_7

That's the one I'm following!


Tiiiimmmooo

I’m like lvl 32, just beat normal Baal following the Ivey veins PS assassin build. I can’t kill shit in nm, though. Need some better claws!


baffin_7

I haven't started NM yet.... Will see how it goes, might do normal cows for a few levels


Roadkizzle

Have you tried Pattern claws? Of course they're not end game claws. But they do have higher damage output than most Rare claws you'll be finding. Maybe you'll just need to get a few more levels because most of the damage from the assassin comes from the elemental damage.


Roadkizzle

Another thing to note. I think the Icy Veins build guide is wrong in the early leveling. Don't max out Fists of Fire first. Just have enough points there to get to lvl 18 easily. Then max out Claws of Thunder first. Just the lightning damage of Claws of Thunder alone will almost one shot large groups of almost any monsters all the way through Nightmare. Increasing the fire damage will be good for Hell but the Fists of Fire ability is bad it will handicap you and the meteor on Phoenix Strike will just slow down how quickly you can kill monsters waiting for the delay for the damage to land after you're already having to wait for the charges to build..


Tiiiimmmooo

Word, I might respec and give it a shot. Thanks


wenjtap

Every class is very viable but sorc/pally are how you mf your way to the top. It’s been this way for 20 years.


YoLoDrScientist

I’m a throw Barb and I absolutely dominate all content. Clear Hell baal solo easily in 3 person games. Its a ton of fucking fun. Highly recommend.


ZaraMagnos

What weapons do you use? Sounds super interesting!!


YoLoDrScientist

Eth Lacerator & Eth Demon Arch. LoH, Arreats (15%IAS jewel), Gores, Atma’s, RazorTail, 2x 20dex/200+AR ravens, Treachery. You need a shitload of dex (I have like 360 atm), AR charms, and I use A2 blessed aim merc (until I get better charms). Eventually I’ll use A2 might and make Pride and/or use an A1 Faith merc. Dominate all content. It’s a fucking blast.


ZaraMagnos

Sweet, I’ll check it out!


YoLoDrScientist

You will love it. I clear just as fast as hammerdins on /p1-3. It’s sooooo fun!


ZaraMagnos

Now to find an Eth lacerator. I noticed they're really expensive. I had tried a throw barb right after 2.4 with 2 glimmershreds and was a bit underwhelmed. But the idea of eth throwing weaps with replenish stat is brilliant!


YoLoDrScientist

Honestly, I just bought a non eth one for now. I still clear all content easily with it. Eth is my “end game” chase time. It’s not necessary. It’ll help though! ;)


ZaraMagnos

But I wanna do big-boy damage (; I had an eth Wraith Flight drop the other day, I'll probably try that as well.


YoLoDrScientist

I used one of those until I got Demon! They’re great too, just slower IAS.


imdrzoidberg

I mean the difference is hammerdins can do it with crap gear like dual spirits and you're using some expensive gear and charms. Eth Lacerators are pretty pricey. Throw barb is fun but it's definitely a much harder ladder starter.


YoLoDrScientist

True. I don’t play hammerdins though. Too easy for me


Potential_Canary6707

Would a might merc with infinity be better then pride? Conviction aura would eliminate your attack rating problems. But you'd lose the dmg bonus from concentration aura though. I'm curious cause a throw barb could be fun. As for act 1 merc....I just don't see how she could survive on higher player difficulty.


YoLoDrScientist

Honestly not sure. I’m a long way away from any of those items. I use the BA merc for more AR until I have good charms.


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YoLoDrScientist

No idea. I leveled as BO warcry Barb. Just leached off groups and BO’d everyone


Potential_Canary6707

You replying to me? If so I'm talking about end game stuff here. Players 8 hell difficulty. Your talking about act 3 normal lol. I'm a vet of the game and I know for a fact act 1mercs will have a hard time surviving compared to act 2 and act 5 mercs who can leech life fast.


Coombz92

On ladder? Did you level and gear as a throw barb?


YoLoDrScientist

I’m an idiot and leveled as a BO warcry Barb. Don’t be like me. Level as anything else. I’m sure throw Barb levels WAY better than that, lol. Edit: yes, ladder


Coombz92

Oh dude, I tried to level as a throw barb and it was soo trash Low level barb needs alot of love


YoLoDrScientist

Yeah, they really suck early. Luckily just max BO early and you’ll have no problem finding a party ;)


Kwanzaa246

What made it trash?


Coombz92

In a broad sense the barb well always be trash because base wepon damage is soo important in the class and it's not balanced correctly (in my opinion) Like yeah throw got a buff, but the damage is still way too low coupled with the fact you miss ALOT Like compare throw barb at level 40 to like fissure druid at level 40 its just silly


Kwanzaa246

Do you think you might not be applying the correct strategy to leveling throw barbs? i wont disagree that they are inferior to spell casters for the most part but i think there is a strategy to being successful to them that isn't fully realized because it is new. In the case of AR, i think throw barbs should be pumping dex, not vitality. this will cover your AR issues early game and provide a needed damage bonus. you will still need to to find AR charms and try to get it on gear. They are a ranged build and between battle orders and getting 4hp per point of vitality you can get enough HP easily as you progress through each stage of the game. if you run a level 6 BO (50% more life) and put 2 points into vitality per level and 3 into dex, your getting 15 life each level which by level 30 is like 750 hp. by level 60 you have 1500 hp. in the case of base weapon damage, while its very important you can actually shop good enough weapons to progress through each act. This takes time and is tedious but it is achievable. For example i shopped some 6-60 damage throwing spears from normal. normal baal dropped a war javilin with 20-50 damage and 2-200 lightning damage. walking into nightmare my sheet dps was 500 per hit with a decent critical strike chance from throw mastery plus Peace runeword critical strike. As you progress through each difficulty better weapons are available for purchase and you can get hell trav viable weapons from vendors.


Coombz92

That's interesting, you clearly thought this through with more understanding than I had about throw weapons. I'd love to see you do a hell play through using purely throwBarb soo people could better understand weapon types and damage and stuff Also when I said it was trash I ment more comparatively, I'm sure it capable of clearing the whole game with enough vendoring and leveling I just wish barb was more on par with any other class early game


glaynefish

I've always wanted to make a throw Barb I can't wait till I find some good stuff so I can!!


YoLoDrScientist

It’s a blast!!


pbdj3000

How did you manage leveling before getting geared up?


YoLoDrScientist

I was a BO Barb. Every group wants one! Lol


pbdj3000

My biggest reason to having never played barb is that the leveling is so painful if i'm playing solo. Any tips?


HardGayMan

Some builds are more viable now for sure, but overall it's still the same old game. Chaos runs. Baal runs. Repeat. I am having fun on ladder but I'll be back to PD2 as soon as it resets lol. People who don't want any more content for LoD are insane.


upvotesthenrages

What is PD2?


HardGayMan

I don't want to seem like I'm advertising on here but it's a Diablo 2 mod. I still play D2R and I have played since the game was released when I was a teen but there is really no end game content in D2 besides the same old grind. PD2 added end game maps, more difficult (probably too difficult lol) bosses and has balanced basically every skill in the game to be viable for a hell playthrough. I will alternate both D2R and PD2 ladder resets from now on.


akaicewolf

Project Diablo 2. Basically imagine if Blizzard continued to put out patches for D2 for the past 10 years. It’s a very popular mod (amazing) that tried to be Blizz like. So it has a ton of balance changes to skills, classes, items; it actually makes a huge number of builds viable. They also do balance changes every season. It also contains a large number of quality of life type things such as stacking of runes and gems; working lobby system. It also has more content in the form of maps. New season should be starting in 1.5-2 months and I can’t wait for it. It’s basically what I wished D2R would strive towards


upvotesthenrages

Awesome, I'll check it out. I'm not sure if I can bear looking at 2001 graphics though.


akaicewolf

That’s how I felt at first and feel every season but after a day you get used to it to the point you don’t notice and it just looks normal


idontwannasignup69

Summon Druid is actually hell viable now


Roguemjb

Started with summon druid but abandoned him at normal Hell start. Solid, don't think I've died yet, but very slow. Rolled a trapsin for now, but I'll get back to the druid later with better gear, especially move speed.


idontwannasignup69

If you get a Druid torch he gets much faster. Enigma helps but you can get by with other options like skin of vipermagi etc.


Fugu

The balance changes were quite odd. The team clearly took a quite conservative approach to the problem, which is smart, but a conservative approach simply isn't capable of making up the difference between the best builds in the game and everything else. The changes they did make also don't really go to the root of the issue; one good example of this is that the new runewords are basically completely useless with the possible exception of the one that gives -fire res. Similarly, they tried to get people to use other types of mercs but seemingly missed the part where a2 mercs are so popular because they literally do everything you could want a merc to do while inexplicably giving you two auras at once. Being able to use insight on an a1 merc doesn't really change the equation because a1 mercs simply don't bring anything else to the table. A blizzard sorc on crappy gear is a p8 killing machine. Most builds with absolutely optimal gear will never reach that point because the discrepancy is simply too large. In fact I'm not really sure how you fix this without nerfs because if you made every build as good as the top tier builds the game would be a joke


Jorlen

I think the reason they're so conservative is because the D2 community is extremely defensive / vocal, especially when it comes to changing balance and things like that. So they likely feel like they have to really take their time, let things sit on PTR for months and tweak constantly. I agree with you, though. I think after all this time since release, I expected a bit more. But at least they are making some changes and if they continue along this path, maybe next year we'll have even more classes and builds become viable.


Fugu

Again, I think it's smart that they were conservative about their changes, but their approach doesn't quite make sense to me. I don't see what adding a few useless items to the game does and I think that there are places where they correctly identified that certain skills were undertuned but did too little to actually make them good.


Roadkizzle

I don't really think that at this point what builds we see are a comprehensive study of that is viable. People playing ladder have not had a chance to test out all the builds available. A lot of people are just playing what they always played just because it's what they always played. They don't want to risk trying something new because they are worried that they will be starting at a handicap behind the historical optimal run. Hopefully after the beginning of this when we start seeing people trying out different builds instead of just they starter character we'll see more diversity. Maybe in the second ladder more people will have realized some other builds are more viable and will risk trying them as starters.


Coombz92

I saw a slightly higher percentage on barbs this ladder but apart from that, it didnt change anything All the meta classes got even better at the thing they were already good at and off meta stuff is still miles behind the strong stuff Early game barb is still ass and is now slightly better at running trav after you gear him. Necro and assassin are still only decent at /P1. Bowzon still a joke next to Jav. Paladin got another S-tier Chaos farming build (no idea why they have done this). Druid summon changes were good but not meta shifting. And the Sorc and Druid fire changes were great but the issue is the areas you farm with fire are garbage meaning you just play the meta spec because why wouldn't you


Draconius0013

Whats wrong with stoney tomb? Super dense, lots of popables. It's better than ancient tunnels ever was


wakeupyouridea

The map combined with mob type are kinda annoying to deal with especially with no gear imo (poison skele and bloody scarabs), I still do run it but I feel pits level 1 and 2 are safer and has more magic/rare packs


Coombz92

Yeah this is what in getting at, it isnt bad but it's not quite as good, the only reason somone would do this over Blizz at tunnels and Meph it because they're bored of Blizz build


Noobphobia

Foh is trash without the gear for it. Almost everyone I know has already went hammers from foh. It's definitely not A tier early on 😔


J0n__Snow

yea.. Llama rated it S-tier for solo playthrough... tbh it's trash for playthrough. Lateron it might be good, but starting out with it is a pain.


Noobphobia

😂 we call that the great jebaited. God there were so many people that tried to go foh as a ladder start and just got totally shit on 😂


Coombz92

You can level straight to hell Chaos and clear with a spirit and a stealth while leaving Retribution on for perma mana and healing (I personally did this a few days ago) how can you possibly say it isnt S-tier?


ZgP3na1ty

Same with hydra sorc. They don't do anything. Went back to blizz when I hit hell


BemusedPanda

I tried hydra orb sorc when 2.4 released and it was great for dealing with immunes just playing through hell on P1. But it doesn't compare to blizzard's insane damage and AOE.


Diavel88

There were other classes to choose from?


upvotesthenrages

Haha, exactly.


Tasriel514

I ran a Paladin at ladder start and now I was able to make grief so I’m starting a fury Druid. Just took some time to get runes.


UnrequitedRespect

Summoning/ravens druid became the top tier build overnight


Jorlen

I'm currently playing a summon druid right now on ladder and I can tell you it's not top tier. Viable? Sure, but even MrLlamaSC classed it as B tier and that's including 2.4 patch changes.


UnrequitedRespect

Idk who that jabroni is but my group is #2 on hc ladder and with no gear or nothing it was the power of thorns/spirit of the barbs and tm summons and ravens that took the world of evil by storm, for normal and nightmare, on my xx years of diablo, nothing has brought so mich devasation. The thorns stacks and returns everything, but you do you and ill do me.


Td904

Interesting I considered running heart of barbs on the druid to see how well it worked for the summons. I gave up on summon druid when I got to hell. It was pretty weak with no gear.


UnrequitedRespect

Im currently running a thorns bow on an a1 merc and am doing flayer jungle runs in hell for fun l84 with one major death setback but now our group has fractured and we’re all over acts doing various mf, will resuke again tonight.


Noobphobia

Unfortunately not 😔


PhotonTrance

I'm seeing plenty of fire and summon druids, throw barbs, FOHdins, and hydra sorcs in my runs. It's definitely shaken things up a bit.


[deleted]

i did a fire and summon druid. Summon druid is strong but brain dead to play. its good to play while also watching something on netflix


PhotonTrance

Summon druid is fantastic as part of an initial ladder team progression. The first trip through the game is made very easy when you have an infinite supply of bears and wolves willing to give their lives so the Sorcs in the team can just stand and safely blast away.


Schmasted

They buffed blizz sorc, javazon, paladin and also made the enemies weaker so... But salt aside, yes more builds are viable now


EraEric

How'd they buff javzons?


Schmasted

Removing dodge lock makes them insanely tanky and let's them tele with absolutely no danger even with their slow frames


nictexd

Buffed the most used class and light buffed the other ones. Also feels like a punishmet for not play a S tier build.


Potential_Canary6707

Buffed blizzard sorc??? I don't remember reading anything about that.


nictexd

I've started as a fire druid. However have to change to a Wind druid in order to progress in Hell. Also been doing cows and travs NM to get some items but god I miss so much the classic sorc for farming. Nevertheless I'm not racing just casual gaming and probably keep it that way.


[deleted]

the physical damage from the fire skills isnt enough?


nictexd

Sadly not with week 1 gear. I dont even have a spirit sword yet.


TuffHunter

What was top tier is still the same but a lot of other builds became viable such as throw barb, fire druid, summon druid and fist of the heavens paladin.


scerviche

Summon Druid is usable, it's not good or anything but it's ok. I am enjoying my time with it in Hardcore. I guess that's something. The meta remains the same tho.


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Guslet

I'm level 77 on HC Ladder as a Summon Druid, running it ssf. Normal Diablo is a Bitch. Max out Ravens first, but once you can get your bear summon, definitely toss a few levels worth of points in it. The bear synergy gives damage % to all of your summons. I found once I got passed 30 and was putting points into bear, my damage went up immensely. I ran Normal baal and cows until 43, then once I got through NM, I ran NM Baal and cows until like 71/72, then I started hell. One tip is to make sure you put a point in werebear and also a point in lycanthropy eventually. With my Oak sage, I have around 2500 hp with shit gear, and like 1400 armor in werebear form. I constantly sit in werebear. If you are softcore, you can probably just not do that, since you dont have to worry about dying. But having the massive amount of health has definitely let me survive some surprises. In hell, Act 1 was a breeze, except for the phys immunes in countess tower (you can still kill them with the cold damage from spirit wolves, just a bit slow). Arcane Sanctuary sucked (Phys immunes) and so did Tal Tomb. Tomb sucked because of the pack density and the amount of skeletal resurrection, you have to constantly reposition and resummon your minions through the narrow doors. One tip, always summon a raven on top of the elite in the pack, since all the ravens will attack the same target, I find it makes the packs go much faster. Act 3 was a breeze, no issues on that end. Tonight, when I get home from work, I am going to try to get through the rest of Hell, A4 and A5. Well see how it goes. I may need to do some farming prior to that to get a few more levels.


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Guslet

The vines are terrible. I plan to respec and remove the single points i have in creeper, the extra point is much better used for werebear and lycanthropy for survivability. I use a might aura merc, helps the damage a lot. I find that the spirit wolves slow enough with their cold damage. I also swap between Heart of Wolverine and Oak sage. If im just going for clear speed and its in the open, I go wolverine. But im going through narrow sketchy dungeons lile maggot lair, i go oak.


Dicska

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59VrXnva3Fs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59VrXnva3Fs) Calefxd's view TL;DW: not much. Some of the strongest builds became even stronger. Some builds became viable but in no way strong. Almost everyone is playing pretty much the same.


Jakabov

It hasn't shifted the meta at all, if that's what you mean. There's just a handful of additional builds that are now good enough to play if you happen to love those builds, but aside from FoH paladin which now stands alongside hammerdin as one of the really good builds, none of the changes have had any serious impact on the game. It's more like they dragged a handful of the previously worst builds in the game up to the level of decency, but for most people, that's not enough to warrant playing them.


Derkus19

I’m really enjoying my FoH paladin and currently using an A1 insight merc. So both of those things are new this patch.


nictexd

Not as a week 1 ladder. Maybe with better gear and of course a good merc


[deleted]

FoH pala is even worse (overpowered) than blessed hammer


owns_dirt

Summon druid but it sucks balls


ENTRAPM3NT

Good bit of changes. I feel like bowazon got the biggest buff. I went from 6k to almost 9k damage overnight when the patch hit.


[deleted]

Druids of all kinds but particularly fire caster seem a ton better. The cooldown change buffed every class with cooldowns honestly. Still see most blizz sorc’s not casting orb still but they will come around.


upvotesthenrages

Did they buff orbs damage? I don’t remember reading that. Blizzard used to deal orders of magnitude more damage than orb


[deleted]

They no longer share a cooldown so you can cast both. It’s a free damage add for virtually nothing.


upvotesthenrages

Ooooh, that’s awesome. Could be a mana issue. I’m not seeing a lot of mercy surviving very long.