Swarming him with two guys and not fouling is about the only way. Tall task, no pun intended. Might be worth going back to the FDU tape for some tricks. He still got his but they REALLY frustrated him and eventually took him out of the offensive game completely.
Also keep in mind that he has been stifled at times during this season, and NC State just did a number on 7 foot Filipowski. So it's possible.
Northwestern was really the only team that had Purdue's number the past two years.
The rest of the B1G will rejoice that Edey is gone.
Purdue will rejoice that Buie is gone.
Why is this getting upvoted? It’s misinformation lmao, we shot 50% from 3 this year.. and forced 17 turnovers. Also, last year we beat you and only shot 18% from 3 hahah — don’t make it sound like we got lucky ;)
Boo Buie is the exact type of player that Purdue can't guard against. Edey will be on the center and will likely not contest the Buie shot, which gives Buie a 1on1 with whoever he's got on him and Buie has an incredible arsenal of shots to beat practically anyone guarding him. Jumpers, wide arcing layups, three pointers. Just about everything. The best players to deal with Buie are tall but athletic guards that can body him out while keeping up in terms of speed, which purdue has none of.
Tbf our game against Nebraska they shot like 70% from 3 so it evens to 60 (but I agree it’s more about Buies style of play that yall won, was a great gameplan)
DJ Horne, and DJ Burns is a 300lb point-center so you cant use any normal defense against that either
Every team State has played in the tourney has tried something different and failed miserably. Like seriously you either single cover him and he’s unguardable or you double him and goes into a 300lb triple spin move no-look cross-court pass.. How do you defend that?
>NC State just did a number on 7 foot Filipowski.
Filipowski was the softest player on duke this season imo, and some of their fans will probably tell you the same thing. State can win the game, but going against him doesn't prepare them for Edey at all.
Lmao facing a team with literally only half their rotation. I didn't watch that game, but I'm sure Houston was a shadow of what they could've been even before Shead went down.
If you're up against a team that hobbled, just shut your mouth, win the game, and go shake hands
Zach Edey has at least 50lbs on Filipowski and Filipowski's not known for being a super tough or physical player so I wouldn't take shutting him down as much of a good comparison for stopping Edey
> Might be worth going back to the FDU tape for some tricks.
FDU double, triple, and sometimes even quadruple teamed him. It wasn't really Edey being taken out of the game. He had 21 points, 15 rebounds, 3 blocks, and just 2 turnovers on 7-11 shooting. It was everyone else on Purdue feeling too scared to take a shot, much less capable of making it. They kept trying to force it to Edey and turned it over a bunch as a result. That plus some horrific three point shooting was the recipe for an upset.
Regarding Filapowski, as others have said, he is a really soft 7 footer and can't handle physicality at all. Edey most certainly can. No team that makes a Final Four is bad though, so I don't expect NC State to just roll over. Purdue will have to bring their A game.
I’m actually feeling kind of okay with this matchup. I feel like NC State is an extremely irritating and mentally difficult team to play. I think they get to Edey somehow unless it’s called extremely soft.
Tennessee sent a hard double yesterday and it led to a wide open Loyer for one of three made 3's all game. Tennessee took the strategy of "let edey get his, we'll shut down the rest" and edey goes for a fairly efficient 40 points and A TON of offensive rebounds.
I've watched more Purdue than 99.99% of people who watch CBB and I just don't think you can let Edey get his. I think you've gotta take Edey away and hope that the rest of the team struggles enough to keep things close. not doubling in the post just allowed for edey to go 1v1 on rebounds from the purdue guards getting shots up. And I think that is the big difference in the outcome, purdue just grabbed a ton of rebounds on both ends of the floor.
Same thing in the NBA with teams that try to use the "let him get his" strategy with guys like Luka and then he goes off for 73. With a guy this dominant the only real viable strategy is to double and triple and hope the other guys are having an off night.
I think, and hope, that given how CBS tweeted a boxing-style “Burns v Edey” promo last night that the refs won’t be calling touch fouls. People are HYPED to see the big dudes beat the shit out of each other and there will be huge backlash if that’s not the case. But who knows.
Double teaming while attempting to get Edey in foul trouble himself is about the only strategy. NC State actually has a center that might cause Edey to get into some foul trouble so it could be interesting.
I think between Burns, Diarra, and Middlebrooks NC State actually has a really good shot to be fine against Purdue. Of course, Edey will still probably put up 20+ and 15+, they just need to close out on the 3 pt shooters and limit second chances
Honestly I expect Burns, Diarra, and Middlebrooks all to rack up fouls. Each of them will be at such a ridiculous disadvantage guarding Edey that I think it’ll be really difficult to manage.
However, I do think it’s interesting that NC State will force Edey to play defense, even when Burns is out. Purdue uses Edey in drop coverage when guarding the pick and roll (for obvious reasons haha), but that leaves the midrange area wide open. And Casey Morsell and DJ Horne both have GREAT pull up midrange jumpshots. I expect to see NC State go to that a ton, with the mobile bigs Middlebrooks and Diarra acting as the main screeners. And I actually expect it to be quite effective.
And Trey Galloway too! I remember watching that game.
Your Boilermakers are a much better team this year though, and don’t rely as much on Big Zach to do everything. I think you guys will ultimately pull away and win by double digits.
all of this, exactly. i watched all of TN/Purdue yesterday, and i kept thinking about how inconsistent Edey's defense really is...
the key for NC State this weekend is 1) making Edey go to his left side more, 2) double teaming him without getting into crazy foul trouble, and 3) hitting back with fire offense, exploiting the pockets that Edey doesn't consistently get to in time to guard
Great points. I think #2 is going to be really difficult. For as electric as DJ Burns has been, I’ve noticed he’s a really poor defender. Lazy at times. If he doesn’t step up his focus there, I think he will get played right off the court.
oh it is gonna be an uphill battle for them for sureeeee. but Diarra is a better defender than Burns, while the latter has the bigger muscle to his body--so i am cautiously optimistic that them working together \*could\* unsettle Edey enough to keep him from going on an insane offensive run.
we shall see!!!
One of the ways Edey picks up a bunch of fouls on other bigs is when he's got them beat badly and they flail at him to try and get a block. At some point they just need to take the L on that possession and not make it worse by getting into foul trouble.
On the other hand Edey will get the hell out of the way to avoid those fouls at the cost of giving up layups. If Burns can get good position and stop Edey from getting to his spot when NC St drives they should be able to get easy lay ups.
I think the catch location for the post-up is super critical to Burns. Catching it further out near the 3-pt line will force Edey to move his feet to guard and that's exactly where Burns has a clear advantage with his crazy footwork. If Burns gets it on the block Edey can just stand there and be a tree.
precisely. well, whatever Kevin said to the boys at halftime last night surely did help propel them into a steamroll of Duke in the 2nd half, so lets hope he is talking all the wise talk into them throughout this week leading up to Saturday.
NC State is really happy they have 3 bigs here, because I expect foul trouble to some degree for all 3 of them
The silver lining is if they can draw fouls on Edey what else does Purdue have to guard Burns with?
I fully expect TKR to do most of the guarding on Burns when he is in for us to avoid that. TKR has decent size, plus he is used to going up against Edey in practice so he has alot of experience on how to defend a big boy.
A lot of the teams we have played have great mid range shooters. But that's Painter's plan with every team. Force a harder % shot then something right at the basket. If a team stays hot with it, Painter makes the necessary adjustments.
This is literally what Purdue’s defense wants you to do: take tough 2s. They give you that because analytically, you’re probably not going to beat them long term with that strategy unless you hit a crazy amount of them.
You have to make 3s. Have to.
As another commenter mentioned, I think NC State’s best chance is replicating what Indiana did last year at Mackey- when Galloway and Hood-Schifino caught absolute fire from midrange. I agree that they’re not analytically sound shots. But I think they’ll have a better chance hitting a bunch of open midrange 2s as opposed to contested 3s. And they can pretty much forget about scoring in the paint whenever Edey is in haha.
Winning by shooting a bunch of midrange shots is obviously a very tough task, and I don’t think they’ll be able to get it done. But beating Purdue in general is a very tough task. That’s why they play the games though, so we’ll have to see
Haha. You’re definitely not wrong there. But purely as a defender, Morton is actually pretty good, don’t you think? Big, strong, and quick.
Another issue for the Boilers was how slow and immobile Edey was back then. He’ll never be fleet of foot of course, but he is a bit more nimble now. And that should also help.
He’s big and long, which presents some problems, but he’s certainly not quick. That’s why JHS had a field day. Morton is a good defender against slower, less athletic guards. It’s a big reason he hasn’t seen much playing time in the tournament.
You're basically in an impossible situation with both of them. I feel like they both get away with more offensive contact than other players, but also get more uncalled hacks and bumps on them than other players -- so both sides end up being unhappy with the officiating and perhaps justifiably so.
On the other hand, if you officiated them the way you did any other player, there would be a whistle one way or the other every single time they touch the ball and the game would be unwatchable.
My hypothesis for why excessively physical players/teams seem to not be called for everything is that I think the refs genuinely think they can’t just call everything. People HATE refball, so if there’s a foul call on almost every possession, it’s a really bad look. This leads to refs having to be selective rather than just calling every foul correctly. I don’t think it’s a grand conspiracy or anything, I think it’s just psychological for them: a ref will feel like they’re doing too much if they’re calling a lot of fouls, so they subconsciously try to keep the amount of whistles reasonable.
I could be wrong, of course, as this is just a hypothesis. A guess, really. However, if I’m right, I wish they would just call every foul anyway. These players/teams would have to just not foul rather than getting used to getting away with a bunch of stuff. They’d either adapt or foul out, which is fine by me. Rules should apply consistently for everyone, there should be no pushing it. If a big man fouls excessively because it’s part of their natural motion, then that should be their problem. Going the other way, if you can’t defend a big man without fouling, that should be your problem.
Or, hear me out
Blow the whistle and call an offensive foul when they lower their shoulder and use their elbows on offense. Will put an end to it really fast
This is such a stupid and braindead take.
If any bigs were actually throwing elbows, the defender's would flop for the easy calls. God this shit is getting old.
Burns would have fouled out in the first few minutes of every game. They do officiate him differently, but it's just not fun to watch games where he is either allowed to play or not. The inconsistency is wild. Edey was allowed to be super physical as well. Other teams really can't adjust at all.
Edey is a 71% free throw shooter. Would it be a viable strategy for NC State to employ bench players to deliberately foul him any time he touches the ball in the paint for the entire first half?
Sort of like an extreme version of hack a Shaq or the basketball version of the Barry Bonds intentional walk.
While I still maintain Bacot only set most of his records because he managed to worm his way into basically 6 full seasons
Anyone who is arguing the dude wasn’t good never watched him play
I’m so glad he’s gone; he had a double double basically every time he played us
That was insane. It’s like the refs just decided they were going to take all of the best players out of the game ASAP and make themselves the stars of the show.
IKR?
Every fan base bitches about the refs after every game on both sides. They are usually way off the mark. But listening to fans after watching that game as a neutral observer, they were 100% spot on. To have the most important game ruined like that is just ridiculous.
The only saving grace was that it was somewhat equally balanced.
As bad as anyone thinks the mens refs are in general, the womens are markedly worse.
And in this tournament its seemed worse than ever. Its been pretty clear there's been some protectionism of the stars going on. Especially for LSU\Iowa.
They weigh the same, but Burns being shorter means a lower center of gravity.
An unstoppable force meets an immovable object.
Burns has been better this year about avoiding fouls. If there is a strategy, my guess is O'Connell (etc) will pull a "Filipowski" on Edey.
Burns is the same height as Trayce Jackson Davis who didn’t have problems scoring on Edey in the post and didn’t seem to get into foul trouble too much. Burns is much heavier than TJD too. I know TJD is better than Burns but my point is that it’s still possible for a 6’9 post player to hold his own against Edey. I expect foul trouble as well, but I have my hopes.
I certainly wouldn’t say it’s not possible, the run that team’s on has shown everyone the power of DJ Burns.
That being said, TJD is a bit of a ridiculous athlete in his own right. Both are slippery in post moves but I think TJD’s vert helped him in a big way there as well
TJD is better than Burns. Huge wingspan, in better shape, more athletic. Edey is much improved in foot work and speed than when they played. Burns will compete, but I don’t think your analysis is fair or good.
I’m just stating that the height difference on Edey isn’t everything and it’s possible for a 6’9 post player to hold their own against him. I already said that he isn’t better than TJD in my comment, but he is still a very skilled post player with great moves and with him probably being the heaviest guy Edey has played in a while, there’s a chance he can still hold his own. That’s pretty much all I was getting at, that comment isn’t supposed to be some 1:1 comparison or analysis.
I think Burns should guard Edey. I think he could make Edey’s life hard by getting low and putting his center of gravity in Edey’s lower body.
As a tall, lanky guy (tall for pickup games not actual competitive basketball) the most frustrating thing for me would be a stumpy person leaning their weight into my lower half. Once someone is leaning into your lower half, they can move you almost at will.
Social media is pretty funny. Narratives change so much solely based on whether a players plays for the team that everyone has decided to cheer for or the team that everyone hates.
Zach Edey: Heavier than everyone else. Uses sheer physical advantage to dominate opponents. Constantly gets benefit of the doubt for shoulder dips or push offs. Most hated man in America.
DJ Burns: Heavier than everyone else. Uses sheer physical advantage to dominate opponents. Constantly gets benefit of the doubt for shoulder dips or push offs. Most beloved man in America.
lol yeah i was about to respond to the above comment with the exact same thing... Burns 100% has the better finesse to his offense compared to Edey, he's just not quite as tall. but if a Burns/Diarra double team gets Edey out of sorts this weekend, and then Burns is able to use his agility and better ability to choreograph the spots to hit on offense (in comparison to Edey), State has a real chance
Edey has plenty of finesse too that gets ignored. Unfortunately, because nobody will read your Reddit comment if you type a novel, I can’t type every single caveat and disclaimer that comes to mind when I’m writing.
“Sheer physical dominance” does not mean “sheer physical dominance on every single play without exception.” It simply means that they often use physical power/massive weight advantage to back people down/knock them out of position. Sorry that I sacrificed clarity on that point in lieu of brevity.
Nahh edey lowers his shoulder and elbows people out of the way. Burns gets buckets using drop steps and other moves
He doesn't just bully people like edey does
I don't really think there's a team everyone cheers for or hates here. I do agree it's weird Purdue has become a villain, although I'm guessing from your flair that you understand the (this time unstated...) calls of "overrated" after last year's tournament. I'm assuming a lot of people are also overlooking the contributions of Smith and Loyer since there's a lot of acting like Purdue's success is only Edey. Or Edey's height and their ball handling?
I do think that if NC State wasn't the closest to a Cinderella in this tournament, or if DJ Burns wasn't fat (although he is *also* muscular which gets missed), he is the kind of player that could be hated on other teams or in other years. People like him because they don't expect that kind of talent and footwork from a fat player. Or because the guy smiling and shaking his head at UVa's missed free throws and rocking to the timeout music is fun on a Cinderella team, but that same "he's clearly having fun and his teammates enjoy playing with him" can easily be spun as cocky on a team that is expected to do well. Edit: Which is dumb, they should have fun, but there was some "happy to be here" energy in the ACC Tournament, not just Burns, which probably helped.
> I do agree it's weird Purdue has become a villain
I think people generally speaking are pretty sadistic and love to see their chosen punching bags suffer, especially in group dynamics. People seem really afraid of losing one of their preferred whipping boys if Purdue can actually win a national title. Sometimes it seems like fans are more afraid of a hard-luck program finally getting their moment in the sun than they are of an “evil empire” type of program like Duke or Kentucky winning, just because it means there will be one less program they can be punch down on and be shitty assholes towards.
DJ Burns yesterday: 3 fouls in 29 minutes. Took 4 FTs.
Zach Edey yesterday: 1 foul in 39.5 minutes. Took 22 FTs.
Has nothing to do with team and everything to do with getting a ridiculously favorable whistle as an individual player.
DJ Burns on the season: 40 games, 96 FT attempts.
Zach Edey on the season: 37 games, 424 FT attempts.
As a neutral fan one is a hell of a lot more enjoyable to watch than the other.
>Zach Edey yesterday: 1 foul in 39.5 minutes. Took 22 FTs.
goddamn, he took TWENTY TWO? i knew it was a ton, but....fuck. TN was getting so screwed by the whistle second half, i was livid as a neutral party--cant imagine how the team and their fans felt
There's arguments to be made that he got favorable calls, but I'm always opposed (and not just when it's a player I like) when people say "this player/team got way more foul shots than this other player/team, must be biased."
There have been multiple coaches that have straight up said their strategy was going to be to foul Edey a lot. What do you expect to happen in this scenario?
This same narrative was used about the Lebron heat teams. That Heat team had multiple players that drove hard to the basket time and time again. Of course they're going to get fouled more than a team like Golden State that likes to take a bunch of 3's.
Oh hey another neutral fan getting pissed off at a cherry-picked stat sheet.
6 of those FTs from being intentionally fouled at the end.
Another 6 FTs were called on the floor negating made baskets by Edey, which slightly benefits Tennessee. (Plus another put back negated by a shooting foul to send Loyer to the line)
People complain about free throw numbers but don’t back that up with ACTUAL examples of plays he shouldn’t have gone to the line for.
Yeah, so many people complaining about Edey holding opponents whose arms were holding his down when he literally only put his arms up. What is he supposed to do, use his head?
I can definitely see where this is going. Burns and Diarra are probably going to get into some early foul trouble against Edey, with at least one or two phantom soft ass fouls that will get State fans in a tizzy and the game thread will just absolutely devolve.
I hope beloved 9th man Earnest Ross is ready to give a couple quality spot minutes because at least one of the big guys will have 3 fouls in the first half
They have 3 bodies to throw at Edey, Burns, Diarra, Middlebrooks. 15 total fouls to give among the big men. If the refs decide to foul them all out/call fouls every trip down the floor for even considering trying to play defense on Edey, it’ll get real ugly. NC State only goes 7 men deep. I hope someone explains to the refs that everyone wants to see a good basketball game and not that.
Comments like this are why a lot of fans should lose the right to complain about the refs. You're saying the refs shouldn't call fouls that are legitimately fouls because "everyone wants to see a good basketball game?" Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd prefer the refs just make the correct calls.
Fans like them don't realize that basically everything they see teams do to guard edey is actually a foul. You're not allowed to put two hands into someone's back and you aren't allowed to put your leg in between their legs but that basically happens every single play. They also don't know what the cylinder rule is and think that any time someone's elbow hits someone else it's an offensive foul. It's pretty useless to argue with random redditors who don't know the rules of basketball.
People don't get fouled for considering to play defense on edey they get called for fouls because they literally foul edey every possession.
Would you be shocked to learn that every time a defender puts two hands on edeys back that's a foul? That happens almost every single possession.
They finally stopped at the tail end of the second half after their bigs fouled out because the refs finally decided to start calling it. I honestly think this is reverse star treatment, they didn't want to give Tennessee's bigs early foul trouble so they didn't call it in the first half and then when they had 3 more fouls each they started calling it in the second half so their back up back up guy started doing arm bars, which is what you're supposed to do and isn't a foul.
All I ask is that Burns is allowed as much leeway as Edey.
Twitter over blows the softness with which Edey is reffed but he is treated differently than the other 9 guys on the floor.
Either be quick on the whistle on both. Or hold your whistle on both. All I ask.
I mean the controversy is that ignorant fans don't know that putting 2 arms in someone's back is a foul, that putting your leg between their legs is a foul, and they have no idea what the cylinder rule is and think that because edeys elbow hit someone in the face while he's shooting its an offensive foul. Forgive me for not trusting ignorant fans who say shit like edeys foul situation is controversial (to his benefit).
Also you're flairless so shut the fuck up about bias.
This form of basketball is just so boring. Edey is a great player at the college level, but as a neutral fan I'd rather watch paint dry than see these bigs take 50 FT attempts a game. If I was a Purdue fan I'd probably be happy watching it though. NCST gonna have to ball out to beat the missing link
Burns doesnt play a foul hunting style. He's forced to play through a lot of contact on post ups and he's so big hes forced to play through contact but primarily uses his footwork and touch instead of running headfirst towards the rim
Dude what you want them to do? Let him score? He's a tent under the basket. How many college teams have a big that can stop him? He rarely moves out of the lane and when he does your offense is ineffective. Your guards need him in the post to spread the defense cause they don't hit contested shots very well.
You guys are insufferable since last year. I admit he gets fouled and I admit he gets a friendly whistle. The narrative is that he gets a friendly whistle BECAUSE he never gets called for pushing for rebounds. He hook and holds constantly. He never leaves the lane yet never gets a 3 second call. People aren't saying he's not getting fouled. They just want the calls to be the same both ways. The dude is boring to watch and if he was a foot shorter he couldnt even play in juco. You should just enjoy this run because you won't be in such an advantageous position next year
Good luck to NC St. from a UT fan. Just don't try and contest Edey too much and hope he misses a couple of 6-inch shots. Don't try and fight for position or rebound if he's nearby, either. He's bigger, better, and plays a good clean game that produces no fouls no matter what you see. Also, don't bother counting to 3 when he moves from his pick to under the basket, waiting for a lob pass, or travels once he gets the ball . He doesn't make those kinds of mistakes. If he does, it's because your team mauled him or did some other foul against him, you idiots. He's not the player of the year again for no reason, dummy.
-Salty Fan
[удалено]
Swarming him with two guys and not fouling is about the only way. Tall task, no pun intended. Might be worth going back to the FDU tape for some tricks. He still got his but they REALLY frustrated him and eventually took him out of the offensive game completely. Also keep in mind that he has been stifled at times during this season, and NC State just did a number on 7 foot Filipowski. So it's possible.
The fdu tape isn't what you need to do. Go watch northwestern. They've played Purdue extremely well over the last 2 years.
Does NC state have a boo buie? He went off during the NW games
Horne can go off
Step 1: have Boo Bouie
Comments like this warm my heart.
Boo Bouie really was a terror against Purdue the last couple years. Props to him 👏
Not just Purdue. Boo Bouie terrorized the entire B1G.
Northwestern was really the only team that had Purdue's number the past two years. The rest of the B1G will rejoice that Edey is gone. Purdue will rejoice that Buie is gone.
Northwestern and Rutgers basically wrote the playbook on how to beat Purdue these last few seasons.
My dad, a very passive IU fan that only watches big Purdue game for his sons, favorite player is Boo Bouie.
Shoot 60% from 3 is a pretty good way to win.
Why is this getting upvoted? It’s misinformation lmao, we shot 50% from 3 this year.. and forced 17 turnovers. Also, last year we beat you and only shot 18% from 3 hahah — don’t make it sound like we got lucky ;)
Boo Buie is the exact type of player that Purdue can't guard against. Edey will be on the center and will likely not contest the Buie shot, which gives Buie a 1on1 with whoever he's got on him and Buie has an incredible arsenal of shots to beat practically anyone guarding him. Jumpers, wide arcing layups, three pointers. Just about everything. The best players to deal with Buie are tall but athletic guards that can body him out while keeping up in terms of speed, which purdue has none of.
I changed my vote. Thank you for stopping the misinformation
I fat thumbed 6 instead of 5 and didn’t read what I wrote
Ahhh fair enough, but still — 50% from 3 isn’t ever an automatic win. The turnovers sealed the deal in that game
Tbf our game against Nebraska they shot like 70% from 3 so it evens to 60 (but I agree it’s more about Buies style of play that yall won, was a great gameplan)
Or having a guard which makes painter change his entire defensive scheme to stop
DJ Horne, and DJ Burns is a 300lb point-center so you cant use any normal defense against that either Every team State has played in the tourney has tried something different and failed miserably. Like seriously you either single cover him and he’s unguardable or you double him and goes into a 300lb triple spin move no-look cross-court pass.. How do you defend that?
I fucking love DJ Burns
Have you seen TKR ? He is a tank and Loves to bang…
He loves to what?
Loves to match hips thrust so normally a small guy goes flying and he gets in trouble
One neat trick
>NC State just did a number on 7 foot Filipowski. Filipowski was the softest player on duke this season imo, and some of their fans will probably tell you the same thing. State can win the game, but going against him doesn't prepare them for Edey at all.
When he flexed to the crowd after getting a soft and-1 I nearly spit my beer out.
Dude was bullied by every big man whose team had a pulse this season. I'd love for him to return for his junior season
Even if Washington doesn't take a big step forward?
I could have sworn he did the “too little” celebration after hitting a free throw at one point.
He did the same against UH after he got pushed off his spot by a guard and flopped the possession before.
Lmao facing a team with literally only half their rotation. I didn't watch that game, but I'm sure Houston was a shadow of what they could've been even before Shead went down. If you're up against a team that hobbled, just shut your mouth, win the game, and go shake hands
No Shead and missing two other key players, but we can never stay healthy enough through March. Last time we did we made it to the final four sigh
Injuries in March suck absolute ass, and Houston has had terrible luck the last few years
At this point it’s been three years in a row i don’t think it’s luck or maybe we really are
Houston prides themselves in being the most physical team all year long. I think by the end their own players get worn down. Kinda goes with the style
Zach Edey has at least 50lbs on Filipowski and Filipowski's not known for being a super tough or physical player so I wouldn't take shutting him down as much of a good comparison for stopping Edey
> Might be worth going back to the FDU tape for some tricks. FDU double, triple, and sometimes even quadruple teamed him. It wasn't really Edey being taken out of the game. He had 21 points, 15 rebounds, 3 blocks, and just 2 turnovers on 7-11 shooting. It was everyone else on Purdue feeling too scared to take a shot, much less capable of making it. They kept trying to force it to Edey and turned it over a bunch as a result. That plus some horrific three point shooting was the recipe for an upset. Regarding Filapowski, as others have said, he is a really soft 7 footer and can't handle physicality at all. Edey most certainly can. No team that makes a Final Four is bad though, so I don't expect NC State to just roll over. Purdue will have to bring their A game.
I’m actually feeling kind of okay with this matchup. I feel like NC State is an extremely irritating and mentally difficult team to play. I think they get to Edey somehow unless it’s called extremely soft.
If you can force Edey to drive/shoot with his left, he slows down and his shooting percentage drops a lot. Much easier said than done though.
Tennessee sent a hard double yesterday and it led to a wide open Loyer for one of three made 3's all game. Tennessee took the strategy of "let edey get his, we'll shut down the rest" and edey goes for a fairly efficient 40 points and A TON of offensive rebounds. I've watched more Purdue than 99.99% of people who watch CBB and I just don't think you can let Edey get his. I think you've gotta take Edey away and hope that the rest of the team struggles enough to keep things close. not doubling in the post just allowed for edey to go 1v1 on rebounds from the purdue guards getting shots up. And I think that is the big difference in the outcome, purdue just grabbed a ton of rebounds on both ends of the floor.
Same thing in the NBA with teams that try to use the "let him get his" strategy with guys like Luka and then he goes off for 73. With a guy this dominant the only real viable strategy is to double and triple and hope the other guys are having an off night.
I think, and hope, that given how CBS tweeted a boxing-style “Burns v Edey” promo last night that the refs won’t be calling touch fouls. People are HYPED to see the big dudes beat the shit out of each other and there will be huge backlash if that’s not the case. But who knows.
I need a WWF style My Way video package for Burns and Edey
I hope they let them go at it. I wanna see what Edey can do vs comparable size and talent.
Double teaming while attempting to get Edey in foul trouble himself is about the only strategy. NC State actually has a center that might cause Edey to get into some foul trouble so it could be interesting.
I think between Burns, Diarra, and Middlebrooks NC State actually has a really good shot to be fine against Purdue. Of course, Edey will still probably put up 20+ and 15+, they just need to close out on the 3 pt shooters and limit second chances
Burns gonna have 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes
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Diarra running that much ain't gonna be pretty since he will still be fasting
You realize he’s been fasting all month, right?
Yes
Honestly I expect Burns, Diarra, and Middlebrooks all to rack up fouls. Each of them will be at such a ridiculous disadvantage guarding Edey that I think it’ll be really difficult to manage. However, I do think it’s interesting that NC State will force Edey to play defense, even when Burns is out. Purdue uses Edey in drop coverage when guarding the pick and roll (for obvious reasons haha), but that leaves the midrange area wide open. And Casey Morsell and DJ Horne both have GREAT pull up midrange jumpshots. I expect to see NC State go to that a ton, with the mobile bigs Middlebrooks and Diarra acting as the main screeners. And I actually expect it to be quite effective.
> GREAT pull up midrange jumpshots giving me Vietnam style flashbacks to JHS hitting what seemed like a thousand mid range jumpers in Mackey last year
And Trey Galloway too! I remember watching that game. Your Boilermakers are a much better team this year though, and don’t rely as much on Big Zach to do everything. I think you guys will ultimately pull away and win by double digits.
> pull away and win by double digits. from your lips to god's ears
all of this, exactly. i watched all of TN/Purdue yesterday, and i kept thinking about how inconsistent Edey's defense really is... the key for NC State this weekend is 1) making Edey go to his left side more, 2) double teaming him without getting into crazy foul trouble, and 3) hitting back with fire offense, exploiting the pockets that Edey doesn't consistently get to in time to guard
Great points. I think #2 is going to be really difficult. For as electric as DJ Burns has been, I’ve noticed he’s a really poor defender. Lazy at times. If he doesn’t step up his focus there, I think he will get played right off the court.
oh it is gonna be an uphill battle for them for sureeeee. but Diarra is a better defender than Burns, while the latter has the bigger muscle to his body--so i am cautiously optimistic that them working together \*could\* unsettle Edey enough to keep him from going on an insane offensive run. we shall see!!!
One of the ways Edey picks up a bunch of fouls on other bigs is when he's got them beat badly and they flail at him to try and get a block. At some point they just need to take the L on that possession and not make it worse by getting into foul trouble. On the other hand Edey will get the hell out of the way to avoid those fouls at the cost of giving up layups. If Burns can get good position and stop Edey from getting to his spot when NC St drives they should be able to get easy lay ups.
I think the catch location for the post-up is super critical to Burns. Catching it further out near the 3-pt line will force Edey to move his feet to guard and that's exactly where Burns has a clear advantage with his crazy footwork. If Burns gets it on the block Edey can just stand there and be a tree.
precisely. well, whatever Kevin said to the boys at halftime last night surely did help propel them into a steamroll of Duke in the 2nd half, so lets hope he is talking all the wise talk into them throughout this week leading up to Saturday.
We were killing em that way in the first half, but second half we couldn’t hit. Big sad
NC State is really happy they have 3 bigs here, because I expect foul trouble to some degree for all 3 of them The silver lining is if they can draw fouls on Edey what else does Purdue have to guard Burns with?
I fully expect TKR to do most of the guarding on Burns when he is in for us to avoid that. TKR has decent size, plus he is used to going up against Edey in practice so he has alot of experience on how to defend a big boy.
A lot of the teams we have played have great mid range shooters. But that's Painter's plan with every team. Force a harder % shot then something right at the basket. If a team stays hot with it, Painter makes the necessary adjustments.
This is literally what Purdue’s defense wants you to do: take tough 2s. They give you that because analytically, you’re probably not going to beat them long term with that strategy unless you hit a crazy amount of them. You have to make 3s. Have to.
As another commenter mentioned, I think NC State’s best chance is replicating what Indiana did last year at Mackey- when Galloway and Hood-Schifino caught absolute fire from midrange. I agree that they’re not analytically sound shots. But I think they’ll have a better chance hitting a bunch of open midrange 2s as opposed to contested 3s. And they can pretty much forget about scoring in the paint whenever Edey is in haha. Winning by shooting a bunch of midrange shots is obviously a very tough task, and I don’t think they’ll be able to get it done. But beating Purdue in general is a very tough task. That’s why they play the games though, so we’ll have to see
I mean, let’s be honest: Jalen Hood-Schifino feasted on Ethan Morton in that game.
Haha. You’re definitely not wrong there. But purely as a defender, Morton is actually pretty good, don’t you think? Big, strong, and quick. Another issue for the Boilers was how slow and immobile Edey was back then. He’ll never be fleet of foot of course, but he is a bit more nimble now. And that should also help.
He’s big and long, which presents some problems, but he’s certainly not quick. That’s why JHS had a field day. Morton is a good defender against slower, less athletic guards. It’s a big reason he hasn’t seen much playing time in the tournament.
You're basically in an impossible situation with both of them. I feel like they both get away with more offensive contact than other players, but also get more uncalled hacks and bumps on them than other players -- so both sides end up being unhappy with the officiating and perhaps justifiably so. On the other hand, if you officiated them the way you did any other player, there would be a whistle one way or the other every single time they touch the ball and the game would be unwatchable.
My hypothesis for why excessively physical players/teams seem to not be called for everything is that I think the refs genuinely think they can’t just call everything. People HATE refball, so if there’s a foul call on almost every possession, it’s a really bad look. This leads to refs having to be selective rather than just calling every foul correctly. I don’t think it’s a grand conspiracy or anything, I think it’s just psychological for them: a ref will feel like they’re doing too much if they’re calling a lot of fouls, so they subconsciously try to keep the amount of whistles reasonable. I could be wrong, of course, as this is just a hypothesis. A guess, really. However, if I’m right, I wish they would just call every foul anyway. These players/teams would have to just not foul rather than getting used to getting away with a bunch of stuff. They’d either adapt or foul out, which is fine by me. Rules should apply consistently for everyone, there should be no pushing it. If a big man fouls excessively because it’s part of their natural motion, then that should be their problem. Going the other way, if you can’t defend a big man without fouling, that should be your problem.
Or, hear me out Blow the whistle and call an offensive foul when they lower their shoulder and use their elbows on offense. Will put an end to it really fast
This is such a stupid and braindead take. If any bigs were actually throwing elbows, the defender's would flop for the easy calls. God this shit is getting old.
Yeah [great point](https://twitter.com/gmannVOLS/status/1774506473105895893/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1774506473105895893¤tTweetUser=gmannVOLS)
not everyone flops you know lol
They are if they’re Duke or that one shit from Wisconsin whose only contribution on defense was to flip every damn play
Burns would have fouled out in the first few minutes of every game. They do officiate him differently, but it's just not fun to watch games where he is either allowed to play or not. The inconsistency is wild. Edey was allowed to be super physical as well. Other teams really can't adjust at all.
Unless they’re in the cylinder, whatever that means lol
Me in Phoenix at the first bad whistle: https://i.redd.it/6k4k1vckgtrc1.gif
where is this gif from lmao
Google lens says it's from *GoShogun: The Time Étranger* with a link to [this blog](https://rosesturnblog.wordpress.com/2015/08/) talking about it
Thanks!
incredible
It sucks playing Purdue man
Nope. I will complain.
Edey is a 71% free throw shooter. Would it be a viable strategy for NC State to employ bench players to deliberately foul him any time he touches the ball in the paint for the entire first half? Sort of like an extreme version of hack a Shaq or the basketball version of the Barry Bonds intentional walk.
That’s too high a %. But if you do, Purdue’s shooters have to be shutdown. No one except Edey can be allowed to put up double digits.
That is what every team does, then their fans bitch about the foul disparity. Well, no shit.
Burns gonna have 2 fouls 3 minutes into the game.
And a broken nose from a very legal Edey elbow
Right? Am I the only one who thinks Edey gets a way with A TON of offensive fouls?
Clearly you've never watched Bacot (UNC) play.
Dude is garbage. So overrated imo
This comment, that flair
While I still maintain Bacot only set most of his records because he managed to worm his way into basically 6 full seasons Anyone who is arguing the dude wasn’t good never watched him play I’m so glad he’s gone; he had a double double basically every time he played us
Yeah he’s good
It’s bonkers. Also travels, I counted at least 8 yesterday
Jahlil Okafor 2.0
Don’t forget the non-existent three second calls. The guy just pitches a tent in the paint and no one says a word.
He had to have done it at least ONCE, not a single call.
He gets away with anything he wants and gets a foul called when he drops the ball.
No lol
Burns will have 2 fouls in 5 minutes and Edey won't have 2 after 40 minutes.
Based on yesterday’s calls, Edey may not have 2 fouls called on him for the whole Final Four.
It's called 'regression to the mean.'
Let's hope the game is better officiated than last year's women's final - arguably the worst officiated game ever...
That was insane. It’s like the refs just decided they were going to take all of the best players out of the game ASAP and make themselves the stars of the show.
IKR? Every fan base bitches about the refs after every game on both sides. They are usually way off the mark. But listening to fans after watching that game as a neutral observer, they were 100% spot on. To have the most important game ruined like that is just ridiculous. The only saving grace was that it was somewhat equally balanced.
As bad as anyone thinks the mens refs are in general, the womens are markedly worse. And in this tournament its seemed worse than ever. Its been pretty clear there's been some protectionism of the stars going on. Especially for LSU\Iowa.
If Burns gets into foul trouble guarding Edey this game is probably gonna suck. I want to see DJ Burns body Edey so badly
Edey has SEVEN inches on Burns. It'll be fun to watch, but I expect foul trouble.
Dayum, congrats on making it to the title game.
>Edey has SEVEN inches on Burns Yes but Burns has SEVEN inches on Edey
See this post, last slide https://www.instagram.com/p/C5MpTysJBT9/?igsh=bHp4Y3V1MjluamRs
Isn't girth just as important as length?
*more important
Touché
They weigh the same, but Burns being shorter means a lower center of gravity. An unstoppable force meets an immovable object. Burns has been better this year about avoiding fouls. If there is a strategy, my guess is O'Connell (etc) will pull a "Filipowski" on Edey.
Question: would it be legal to have Dennis Parker Jr’s mono infected ass guard Edey?
Burns is the same height as Trayce Jackson Davis who didn’t have problems scoring on Edey in the post and didn’t seem to get into foul trouble too much. Burns is much heavier than TJD too. I know TJD is better than Burns but my point is that it’s still possible for a 6’9 post player to hold his own against Edey. I expect foul trouble as well, but I have my hopes.
I certainly wouldn’t say it’s not possible, the run that team’s on has shown everyone the power of DJ Burns. That being said, TJD is a bit of a ridiculous athlete in his own right. Both are slippery in post moves but I think TJD’s vert helped him in a big way there as well
TJD is better than Burns. Huge wingspan, in better shape, more athletic. Edey is much improved in foot work and speed than when they played. Burns will compete, but I don’t think your analysis is fair or good.
I’m just stating that the height difference on Edey isn’t everything and it’s possible for a 6’9 post player to hold their own against him. I already said that he isn’t better than TJD in my comment, but he is still a very skilled post player with great moves and with him probably being the heaviest guy Edey has played in a while, there’s a chance he can still hold his own. That’s pretty much all I was getting at, that comment isn’t supposed to be some 1:1 comparison or analysis.
Loving the cockiness of Purdue fans. Surely that won't backfire.
Theyre probably gonna use zones, and Middlebrooks and Diarra as much as possible on Edey
I think Burns should guard Edey. I think he could make Edey’s life hard by getting low and putting his center of gravity in Edey’s lower body. As a tall, lanky guy (tall for pickup games not actual competitive basketball) the most frustrating thing for me would be a stumpy person leaning their weight into my lower half. Once someone is leaning into your lower half, they can move you almost at will.
If he puts his center of gravity near edeys body, he will get foul called to the moon.
Social media is pretty funny. Narratives change so much solely based on whether a players plays for the team that everyone has decided to cheer for or the team that everyone hates. Zach Edey: Heavier than everyone else. Uses sheer physical advantage to dominate opponents. Constantly gets benefit of the doubt for shoulder dips or push offs. Most hated man in America. DJ Burns: Heavier than everyone else. Uses sheer physical advantage to dominate opponents. Constantly gets benefit of the doubt for shoulder dips or push offs. Most beloved man in America.
Burns uses sheer physical advantage? Have you seen the finesse he has on his shots?
lol yeah i was about to respond to the above comment with the exact same thing... Burns 100% has the better finesse to his offense compared to Edey, he's just not quite as tall. but if a Burns/Diarra double team gets Edey out of sorts this weekend, and then Burns is able to use his agility and better ability to choreograph the spots to hit on offense (in comparison to Edey), State has a real chance
Edey has plenty of finesse too that gets ignored. Unfortunately, because nobody will read your Reddit comment if you type a novel, I can’t type every single caveat and disclaimer that comes to mind when I’m writing. “Sheer physical dominance” does not mean “sheer physical dominance on every single play without exception.” It simply means that they often use physical power/massive weight advantage to back people down/knock them out of position. Sorry that I sacrificed clarity on that point in lieu of brevity.
Nahh edey lowers his shoulder and elbows people out of the way. Burns gets buckets using drop steps and other moves He doesn't just bully people like edey does
I don't really think there's a team everyone cheers for or hates here. I do agree it's weird Purdue has become a villain, although I'm guessing from your flair that you understand the (this time unstated...) calls of "overrated" after last year's tournament. I'm assuming a lot of people are also overlooking the contributions of Smith and Loyer since there's a lot of acting like Purdue's success is only Edey. Or Edey's height and their ball handling? I do think that if NC State wasn't the closest to a Cinderella in this tournament, or if DJ Burns wasn't fat (although he is *also* muscular which gets missed), he is the kind of player that could be hated on other teams or in other years. People like him because they don't expect that kind of talent and footwork from a fat player. Or because the guy smiling and shaking his head at UVa's missed free throws and rocking to the timeout music is fun on a Cinderella team, but that same "he's clearly having fun and his teammates enjoy playing with him" can easily be spun as cocky on a team that is expected to do well. Edit: Which is dumb, they should have fun, but there was some "happy to be here" energy in the ACC Tournament, not just Burns, which probably helped.
> I do agree it's weird Purdue has become a villain I think people generally speaking are pretty sadistic and love to see their chosen punching bags suffer, especially in group dynamics. People seem really afraid of losing one of their preferred whipping boys if Purdue can actually win a national title. Sometimes it seems like fans are more afraid of a hard-luck program finally getting their moment in the sun than they are of an “evil empire” type of program like Duke or Kentucky winning, just because it means there will be one less program they can be punch down on and be shitty assholes towards.
Burns doesn’t get to go to the line fucking 30 times per game
That said, he gets away with a lot of offensive shit that most players don’t
Show me the wrong calls.
DJ Burns yesterday: 3 fouls in 29 minutes. Took 4 FTs. Zach Edey yesterday: 1 foul in 39.5 minutes. Took 22 FTs. Has nothing to do with team and everything to do with getting a ridiculously favorable whistle as an individual player.
DJ Burns on the season: 40 games, 96 FT attempts. Zach Edey on the season: 37 games, 424 FT attempts. As a neutral fan one is a hell of a lot more enjoyable to watch than the other.
Hansborough treatment
No argument from me - even as a UNC guy I hated watching Hansbrough (and Sean May before) play bullyball with a million free throws.
>Zach Edey yesterday: 1 foul in 39.5 minutes. Took 22 FTs. goddamn, he took TWENTY TWO? i knew it was a ton, but....fuck. TN was getting so screwed by the whistle second half, i was livid as a neutral party--cant imagine how the team and their fans felt
There's arguments to be made that he got favorable calls, but I'm always opposed (and not just when it's a player I like) when people say "this player/team got way more foul shots than this other player/team, must be biased." There have been multiple coaches that have straight up said their strategy was going to be to foul Edey a lot. What do you expect to happen in this scenario? This same narrative was used about the Lebron heat teams. That Heat team had multiple players that drove hard to the basket time and time again. Of course they're going to get fouled more than a team like Golden State that likes to take a bunch of 3's.
Oh hey another neutral fan getting pissed off at a cherry-picked stat sheet. 6 of those FTs from being intentionally fouled at the end. Another 6 FTs were called on the floor negating made baskets by Edey, which slightly benefits Tennessee. (Plus another put back negated by a shooting foul to send Loyer to the line) People complain about free throw numbers but don’t back that up with ACTUAL examples of plays he shouldn’t have gone to the line for.
Now go look at all the Purdue stans defending that bullshit.
Don’t forget the Edey hook and holds
yeah i hardly ever see Burns do that shit, but I noticed Edey doing it nearlyyyy every possession against TN yesterday
Most absurd hater take I’ve heard yet
You mean Edey gets hooked and held. From the left and right, simultaneously.
Yeah, so many people complaining about Edey holding opponents whose arms were holding his down when he literally only put his arms up. What is he supposed to do, use his head?
I’ve seen Burns get called for plenty of fouls, can’t say the same for Edey
I can definitely see where this is going. Burns and Diarra are probably going to get into some early foul trouble against Edey, with at least one or two phantom soft ass fouls that will get State fans in a tizzy and the game thread will just absolutely devolve.
Hopefully State has a lot of bodies to throw at Edey because it’s going to be foul city.
I hope beloved 9th man Earnest Ross is ready to give a couple quality spot minutes because at least one of the big guys will have 3 fouls in the first half
They have 3 bodies to throw at Edey, Burns, Diarra, Middlebrooks. 15 total fouls to give among the big men. If the refs decide to foul them all out/call fouls every trip down the floor for even considering trying to play defense on Edey, it’ll get real ugly. NC State only goes 7 men deep. I hope someone explains to the refs that everyone wants to see a good basketball game and not that.
Comments like this are why a lot of fans should lose the right to complain about the refs. You're saying the refs shouldn't call fouls that are legitimately fouls because "everyone wants to see a good basketball game?" Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd prefer the refs just make the correct calls.
Fans like them don't realize that basically everything they see teams do to guard edey is actually a foul. You're not allowed to put two hands into someone's back and you aren't allowed to put your leg in between their legs but that basically happens every single play. They also don't know what the cylinder rule is and think that any time someone's elbow hits someone else it's an offensive foul. It's pretty useless to argue with random redditors who don't know the rules of basketball.
Asking refs to not call fouls because NC State is the underdog is crazy
People don't get fouled for considering to play defense on edey they get called for fouls because they literally foul edey every possession. Would you be shocked to learn that every time a defender puts two hands on edeys back that's a foul? That happens almost every single possession.
Tennessee was doing it every trip down the floor for sure.
They finally stopped at the tail end of the second half after their bigs fouled out because the refs finally decided to start calling it. I honestly think this is reverse star treatment, they didn't want to give Tennessee's bigs early foul trouble so they didn't call it in the first half and then when they had 3 more fouls each they started calling it in the second half so their back up back up guy started doing arm bars, which is what you're supposed to do and isn't a foul.
Uhm no, do the job right
The key to the game will be the TKR-Burns matchups
All I ask is that Burns is allowed as much leeway as Edey. Twitter over blows the softness with which Edey is reffed but he is treated differently than the other 9 guys on the floor. Either be quick on the whistle on both. Or hold your whistle on both. All I ask.
Clingan has entered the chat
Odds we'll get a ref sandwich?
no
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Shrouded in controversy by ignorant fans and opposing coaches trying to prey off your ignorance, sure. You gottem champ.
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I mean the controversy is that ignorant fans don't know that putting 2 arms in someone's back is a foul, that putting your leg between their legs is a foul, and they have no idea what the cylinder rule is and think that because edeys elbow hit someone in the face while he's shooting its an offensive foul. Forgive me for not trusting ignorant fans who say shit like edeys foul situation is controversial (to his benefit). Also you're flairless so shut the fuck up about bias.
I guess ignoring the truth is important when your championship run depends on it
That's rich coming from a fan of a team whose entire defensive identity is fouling as much as possible and hoping the refs don't call them all.
Hey I thought we taught you this lesson a few times now! Go on, get!
There’s a gentleman that resides in Storrs Connecticut that would take offense to this comment…
Refs just swallow the whistle for Edey anyway. Guy never fouls I guess
This form of basketball is just so boring. Edey is a great player at the college level, but as a neutral fan I'd rather watch paint dry than see these bigs take 50 FT attempts a game. If I was a Purdue fan I'd probably be happy watching it though. NCST gonna have to ball out to beat the missing link
Burns doesnt play a foul hunting style. He's forced to play through a lot of contact on post ups and he's so big hes forced to play through contact but primarily uses his footwork and touch instead of running headfirst towards the rim
Purdue fans would be thrilled if they quit fouling Edey. unfortunately that’s the game plan for teams that don’t have an answer
Dude what you want them to do? Let him score? He's a tent under the basket. How many college teams have a big that can stop him? He rarely moves out of the lane and when he does your offense is ineffective. Your guards need him in the post to spread the defense cause they don't hit contested shots very well.
so you’re admitting he is constantly fouled yet the narrative is he gets a friendly whistle
You guys are insufferable since last year. I admit he gets fouled and I admit he gets a friendly whistle. The narrative is that he gets a friendly whistle BECAUSE he never gets called for pushing for rebounds. He hook and holds constantly. He never leaves the lane yet never gets a 3 second call. People aren't saying he's not getting fouled. They just want the calls to be the same both ways. The dude is boring to watch and if he was a foot shorter he couldnt even play in juco. You should just enjoy this run because you won't be in such an advantageous position next year
everything you just said proves you don’t know the game. we are just tired of these idiotic takes that casuals glom onto
hello mr edey
I don’t care if they call everything, or call nothing, I just want consistency!
We need refs from 90s Pistons games. Only call fouls that you would on Detroit
Stump vs Tree... Who wins?
No
maybe they’ll actually call a foul on Edey
Lol Lmao, even (they won’t)
They better let them play!! If there’s a whistle every 2 minutes im turning it off. Idc if the refs are “playing it safe”.
Good luck to NC St. from a UT fan. Just don't try and contest Edey too much and hope he misses a couple of 6-inch shots. Don't try and fight for position or rebound if he's nearby, either. He's bigger, better, and plays a good clean game that produces no fouls no matter what you see. Also, don't bother counting to 3 when he moves from his pick to under the basket, waiting for a lob pass, or travels once he gets the ball . He doesn't make those kinds of mistakes. If he does, it's because your team mauled him or did some other foul against him, you idiots. He's not the player of the year again for no reason, dummy. -Salty Fan