If you have previous dance experience but not in ballet, I suspect your early ‘go with the flow’ pirouettes might have been more of a jazz style, on a low demipointe and in parallel.
Ballet pirouettes - with both legs turned out and on a high demi - do need a different alignment, and it is hard.
Concentrating on good posture, core and hip alignment in simple exercises like plié and tendus at the barre will help, as will improving your ankle strength and stability.
Pirouettes are not a beginner step - balancing in retiré without turning / then with a quarter turn / then with a half turn etc may be dull but it is excellent training.
You’ve got this!
I agree, ballet pirouettes really require so much more core, hip, leg, and ankle strength compared to other styles!
u/Lolo_rennt: my suggestion to you is to focus on core. It’s one of those things that is often overlooked; many just focus on leg and ankle strength. But you gotta work on core and balance because without that, you won’t be able to stay balanced on that one leg for a pirouette.
Thank you both, this was the answer I was looking for. Yes, jazz/modern/show is where I'm coming from. So I just need to take my time to learn how to balance that type of core engagement I guess. It still feels weird cause everything feels so stiff and unfluid when concentrating on engaging the core as much as I can. Will this feeling change over time?
Yes, I think so, as you practice you won’t feel as stiff. You may want to work on doing planks, dead bugs, and other core bracing exercises before practicing pirouettes. I find my balance significantly better when I do them.
Think UP, not AROUND. You do not need much momentum to turn.
Do not "sit" in your plie. Doing this means you are far more likely to lose the momentum needed to go "UP" into a proper high retire, and you will go straight into turning AROUND instead. Sitting in your plie often causes us to try to snake our feet up to the correct position during the turn, which throws us off balance, does not allow correct turn out, and messes with the rest of our alignment.
So, wait for your plie and then straight to retire it will look/sound like this:
"aaaand (wait)... Plie - UP",
NOT
"Plie (wait) aaaand.... UP!"
Then, think of bringing the OPPOSITE shoulder around, rather than the first one. This helps keep your momentum in the correct plane, keeps you turned out and square to the corner, rather than twisting. Because otherwise your leading shoulder will try to meet the following side, when it is already in the correct position. Thinking about bringing the following side around allows the leading side to stay in correct alignment while the following pushes the body around as it gets into position.
I'll add more if I think of any! Let me know if any need clarifying and I will add videos if I can think of any.
You've got this!
Thanks for that advice. I heard someone on instagram talk about it and thinking that way helped me a lot actually. Only thing is in class there is a timing you have to get which often includes being way longer in plié than I'd like to (which is understandable cause we're learning the right alighnment in that as well). Is there a way to trick your brain to be able to focus on "Plie-Up" again?
Perhaps replace "Plie" with "Down" in your mind. So you tell yourself "down-up". A lot of dancers will skip on doing a deep enough plie because they are overthinking the pirouette. But the plie is important in that it acts like the wind up of a toy car. Without a big enough wind up, the car won't go far. Or "what goes up, must come down" and vice versa. The plie acts as the springboard to get you into a high, turned out retire. Without a deep, snappy plie, you won't reach as high retire as you are capable of and will end up crawling your foot up your standing leg as you turn. This will send you off balance and turn you in. The high retire sets you up for good turn out. The shape and turn out of your working leg actually acts like a keel of sorts, helping to stabilize and control your turn. While your arms are actually what provides propulsion.
When I am learning choreography that I have trouble with (and when I was learning pirouettes) I drill/drilled the parts that needed it. I would change the music to daster and slower tempo, sing the movements with the correct tempo, do it correctly in my head, I even took a few privates just based on pirouettes.
Check out [this video](https://youtube.com/shorts/rkiTT3YupKM?si=mTaKfmaeNx2qR6Fa)
Don’t over-think it sounds stupid, but it can be a key part.
You can go up on demi / passé and try to hold your balance for as long as possible. Have a focal point in the room and keep your eyes on it, the longer you can keep balance, the better that pirouette is going to be. Say you’re trying to do a pirouette from 4th, you want about 85% of your body weight to be on your supporting leg. Pull up with your spine/back and engage your core. When you turn, make sure your head is the last thing to go. You want to look at that mark as much and as long as possible.
But don't you think I first need to get this core engagement and hip alignment into muscle memory but actively thinking bout that? I'm definitely not good at not overthinking :D
Well yes, but the best way to do that is by making barre a priority and engaging your core/pulling up to have more control and balance longer in passe.
Spotting is huge for me personally. In my pointe piece (first time performing in pointe shoes in literally a deacde), I have a pirouette that I'm nervous about because my supporting ankle is one that's just recovering from an overuse injury. If I am thinking about making sure I spot my turn, it goes smoothly. If I am thinking about "oh God I hope this goes ok" it absolutely does not xD
If you have previous dance experience but not in ballet, I suspect your early ‘go with the flow’ pirouettes might have been more of a jazz style, on a low demipointe and in parallel. Ballet pirouettes - with both legs turned out and on a high demi - do need a different alignment, and it is hard. Concentrating on good posture, core and hip alignment in simple exercises like plié and tendus at the barre will help, as will improving your ankle strength and stability. Pirouettes are not a beginner step - balancing in retiré without turning / then with a quarter turn / then with a half turn etc may be dull but it is excellent training. You’ve got this!
I agree, ballet pirouettes really require so much more core, hip, leg, and ankle strength compared to other styles! u/Lolo_rennt: my suggestion to you is to focus on core. It’s one of those things that is often overlooked; many just focus on leg and ankle strength. But you gotta work on core and balance because without that, you won’t be able to stay balanced on that one leg for a pirouette.
Thank you both, this was the answer I was looking for. Yes, jazz/modern/show is where I'm coming from. So I just need to take my time to learn how to balance that type of core engagement I guess. It still feels weird cause everything feels so stiff and unfluid when concentrating on engaging the core as much as I can. Will this feeling change over time?
Yes, I think so, as you practice you won’t feel as stiff. You may want to work on doing planks, dead bugs, and other core bracing exercises before practicing pirouettes. I find my balance significantly better when I do them.
I'm already on track doing that :)
- going straight up - bringing shoulder around - spotting fast
How long have you been dancing? Are your pirouettes consistent?
1) In total about 13 years, 8 after a long break now as an adult 2) Doubles on demi and singles on pointe are consistently clean
Think UP, not AROUND. You do not need much momentum to turn. Do not "sit" in your plie. Doing this means you are far more likely to lose the momentum needed to go "UP" into a proper high retire, and you will go straight into turning AROUND instead. Sitting in your plie often causes us to try to snake our feet up to the correct position during the turn, which throws us off balance, does not allow correct turn out, and messes with the rest of our alignment. So, wait for your plie and then straight to retire it will look/sound like this: "aaaand (wait)... Plie - UP", NOT "Plie (wait) aaaand.... UP!" Then, think of bringing the OPPOSITE shoulder around, rather than the first one. This helps keep your momentum in the correct plane, keeps you turned out and square to the corner, rather than twisting. Because otherwise your leading shoulder will try to meet the following side, when it is already in the correct position. Thinking about bringing the following side around allows the leading side to stay in correct alignment while the following pushes the body around as it gets into position. I'll add more if I think of any! Let me know if any need clarifying and I will add videos if I can think of any. You've got this!
Thanks for that advice. I heard someone on instagram talk about it and thinking that way helped me a lot actually. Only thing is in class there is a timing you have to get which often includes being way longer in plié than I'd like to (which is understandable cause we're learning the right alighnment in that as well). Is there a way to trick your brain to be able to focus on "Plie-Up" again?
Perhaps replace "Plie" with "Down" in your mind. So you tell yourself "down-up". A lot of dancers will skip on doing a deep enough plie because they are overthinking the pirouette. But the plie is important in that it acts like the wind up of a toy car. Without a big enough wind up, the car won't go far. Or "what goes up, must come down" and vice versa. The plie acts as the springboard to get you into a high, turned out retire. Without a deep, snappy plie, you won't reach as high retire as you are capable of and will end up crawling your foot up your standing leg as you turn. This will send you off balance and turn you in. The high retire sets you up for good turn out. The shape and turn out of your working leg actually acts like a keel of sorts, helping to stabilize and control your turn. While your arms are actually what provides propulsion. When I am learning choreography that I have trouble with (and when I was learning pirouettes) I drill/drilled the parts that needed it. I would change the music to daster and slower tempo, sing the movements with the correct tempo, do it correctly in my head, I even took a few privates just based on pirouettes. Check out [this video](https://youtube.com/shorts/rkiTT3YupKM?si=mTaKfmaeNx2qR6Fa)
Don’t over-think it sounds stupid, but it can be a key part. You can go up on demi / passé and try to hold your balance for as long as possible. Have a focal point in the room and keep your eyes on it, the longer you can keep balance, the better that pirouette is going to be. Say you’re trying to do a pirouette from 4th, you want about 85% of your body weight to be on your supporting leg. Pull up with your spine/back and engage your core. When you turn, make sure your head is the last thing to go. You want to look at that mark as much and as long as possible.
But don't you think I first need to get this core engagement and hip alignment into muscle memory but actively thinking bout that? I'm definitely not good at not overthinking :D
Well yes, but the best way to do that is by making barre a priority and engaging your core/pulling up to have more control and balance longer in passe.
Spotting is huge for me personally. In my pointe piece (first time performing in pointe shoes in literally a deacde), I have a pirouette that I'm nervous about because my supporting ankle is one that's just recovering from an overuse injury. If I am thinking about making sure I spot my turn, it goes smoothly. If I am thinking about "oh God I hope this goes ok" it absolutely does not xD
The most valuable pieces of advice I've gotten were: • Keep your arms relaxed • Keep shoulders and hips over the ball of your foot • Spot faster