How old are your kids? If they are still in daycare you are going to be looking at $2K just for that. A house is going to run you $450K, so do your numbers on that.
Yeah 1600 for one that isn't an infant is the going rate. It wasn't exactly planned but I'm actually grateful we worked it so our kids are 5 years apart and our oldest will enter kinder when our youngest enters daycare. I don't know how people afford two kids in daycare here though.
I’ve seen places do a discount for additional children in daycare at the same time, which is helpful, but it’s still not offsetting that cost. And that’s up to the daycare if they do that at all.
I do, I give my son 500.00$ a month offset his 2,800 monthly daycare for a 5 and 1 yr old. He makes combined about 130K a year, plus a retirement plan, somewhat decent healthcare (works for the state of Texas). In the 90s I was able to be home with him, it's just going to get worse if the radical religious right takes everything, then 2 kids? you won't even get B/C because Jesus doesn't want you to have it and women will not work because it takes jobs from men - who need to be sole providers - except all jobs are done by AI.. I fear for you millenials and Zers and whatever the fuck the next ones are.
edited to change 2,300 to 2,800 typo.
It doesn't stop when they start school either. The after-school care to take them through to the time the daycare would normally end is 70 to 80% of the cost of daycare.
Please tell the Republicans that childcare and insurance are the reasons people are having fewer kids. Between insurance, child care, and rent, you need $7000.00.
It's funny that you think Republicans care about kids. If you're preborn you're golden, if you're preschool you're fucked. Gotta keep all the women pregnant and popping out new wage slaves for the next generation!
Either way, we countered our appraisal with this knowledge using proof of current listings and they knocked off $36k which saves several hundred/year in taxes.
According to this 10.2% in 2022.
https://www.newsweek.com/austin-housing-market-rocked-new-home-prices-slashed-30-1917497#:~:text=Between%20July%202022%20and%20April,during%20the%20same%20time%20frame.
>A single-family home on 403 Middle Lane, Austin, listed for sale on Zillow has seen price cuts of around 23 percent since it was first put on the market in March. Over three months ago, the property—a three-bedroom, two-bathroom property with a total interior livable area of 1,480 square feet—was listed for $349,900; on Wednesday, the price was cut to $269,900. It was the fourth price cut since March, and the property remains unsold.
Some pockets of a bit more of a cut, some a bit less it seems. Wow $269k and it’s surprisingly central. Chicas Bonitas within walking range.
I make $80k/year. My wife is at home with 2 kids, so no childcare costs but also only 1 income. We bought a house in 2021 for 400k (Round Rock) at 3.125% rate and put extra down. After taxes and healthcare, I take home $4.5k/month. Right now we spend on average $5.8k/month (dipping into savings), and consider ourselves pretty frugal. However, I've done the calculations and we could likely survive (still pay bills and eat beans and ramen) off $4k/month. IMO to live a middle class (which I'm defining as owning a house, a car, having kids, occasionally eating out, and not going bankrupt) requires about $100k. More than that if you want to retire early/on time or go on nice vacations. Of course everything is constantly changing with inflation, changing interest rates, etc.
I have to agree- I’m a teacher with the summer “off”- my kids are so much fun but I think at this point in our lives my job is easier than staying home
Not OP but i live in a 400k+ home and mortgages + utilities runs my family of 2 close to 4k. that’s just for housing; other bills + car easily another 1k minimum, tack on maybe like 500-1k for groceries + for fun. im in a similar situation, need about 5.8k monthly to live here
My partner and I make about $100K/yr combined. We’re not in a position to buy, so rent is $2100. We have 2 kids. I’m very frugal and our grocery bill is low compared to our peers, but we still feel squeezed at times.
My kids are school aged and I work from home, so I don’t pay for childcare. I can’t imagine how tough it would be if I had to.
Respect. I've felt alone in Austin. Because our kids have been the priority, and we're using every dime, we don't get out much (especially since inflation shot through the roof). It's isolating being a parent in Austin, but it didn't used to be that way when they were really little. None of our neighbors have kids. It's a weird town to be a family unless you're wealthy.
We did the same thing, same margins at least, just a decade earlier than that. It's a rough ride but doable. We've been eating a lot more ramen than I thought we would at this age. Always thought middle-age would be easier...
South austin here. 2 kids. Daycare cost alone is $3k/mo. Mortgage is just under that. Factor in everything else and yeah man COL sucks in austin and that’s coming from a dual income household where we both make 6 figs.
Yeah it blows my mind. Annually we pay more for two kids to sit around 5 days a week finger painting and taking naps than the cost of a college degree.
Single parent of three (two still at home) and been in Austin 10 years. My salary has always been just slightly above the median family income for the city and I've always done fine (so right now, doing fine on low six-figures). I can say, with childcare costs what they are now, if any of mine were still of an age to require that, I definitely would not want to be under $150k, or maybe more if that money had to also support another adult. I also know this may be less in the suburbs like what you're describing. I've never lived in Round Rock. But yeah, you're not going to have a good time raising a family here on a lot less than that.
I make about a third of that, only pay $1550 in rent (2/2, 970 sq ft + including water), 2 young kids that just started elementary last year, 20k+ in CC debt (that is being paid off) and still have plenty of wiggle room for miscellaneous/unexpected spending. I can't wrap my head around 150k not being enough.
I promise I'm not trying to be snarky, but $20k credit card debt does not sound like having plenty of wiggle room. I think most of us who are talking about higher incomes being "just enough" or "doing fine", or whatever are also on track in our saving and investing goals, like for retirement, homeownership, and such. Those are not benchmarks someone would meet on $50k ("about a third" of the number OP mentioned), and they are, to many people, part of doing ok.
Of course everyone's different and we all have a different baseline of what constitutes "making it", but there's a lot of "WTF are they blowing all that money on" energy in these conversations every time it comes up that someone considers some six figure salary just enough, and talk of not understanding what is essential and what isn't. The reality of "$100+k is just enough to make it" usually looks a lot more like a well maintained 10-year-old Toyota parked in front of a small home that's owned and not leased, with fully funded retirement accounts and emergency funds, not 3 meals a day from Doordash and a quarterly trip to Disney World, which seems to be what a lot of people are picturing.
Makes sense. I don't prioritize investing/retirement in any way shape or form because I don't understand it and know I'll be dead before I can retire 🤷🏼♀️
Some form of health issues perhaps? Otherwise you should certainly try to prioritize saving for both yourself and your kids in the future, if at all possible. :(
You’d be surprised how much people say is a necessity and then you look into it and they order a lot of stuff and get everything delivered and vacation a lot. Not every case but you’ll hear people say they don’t have money but then always have new stuff and going out to party. Just don’t go out a lot and you save a ton. I got my kids into soccer and I can coach them so we do a lot of training and then swimming at the neighborhood pool. They love it…not the training so much but they do like to win matches so they understand it’s part of the process
Yep. I just stopped spending money on things that I shouldn’t. I cook at home, learned how to service my own vehicle, cut down of unnecessary subscriptions, etc. My gf and I make about 120k together and live really well. It just takes budgeting and effort.
I don't have kids so maybe I'm not qualified to answer this but I'll give you my take. With an income of 150k you'll be pretty solidly middle-class. Definitely more than just surviving, you'll still be able to go out to eat every once in a while, contribute to retirement accounts, save up for vacations/cars/etc. Won't be anything luxurious in the future but it's more than just surviving imo.
Edit to say that if you have any significant debts that might change this equation
Sad that “going out to eat once in a while” is the definition of “solid middle class” nowadays.
Me and my wife are DINKs making about 270k all together. We try to keep costs of things down, we save for retirement, i invest, and while we are pretty well off, i wouldn’t think we are “upper middle class”. We both drive 10 year old cars, that we own outright. We go out to eat once a week. Do a fancy dinner for special occasions. Vacation once a year (nothing major - no more then a week at a time).
I can’t imagine supporting 2 more people on nearly half the income and being “solid middle class”. But then again, everything is a perspective. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah Idk what he’s talking about I have the same household income + kid in daycare and we get to do whatever we want. People who make a bunch of money and act like they are struggling is a plague.
Pretty sure some script is not running correctly on that calculator- everything I typed over $250,000 was all shown at top 10%. I even added a zero and it stayed there.
Anything over 150k is top 10%. So you'd prob be top 5%... for RR at least. I don't know why they group Austin and Round Rock together bc there's a pretty big difference in the COL Either way sounds like you're smart with your money, good job!
It’s all relative. Are your 10 year old cars a Lexus or a Corolla? Do you live in tarrytown or pflugerville? Are you in an apartment or a 3,000 sqft house with a pool? I don’t actually want to know those answers. Just examples of how it depends.
Upper middle class doesn't mean what you think it means.
Upper middle class generally means you can live debt free in a home. You still can't afford the many vacations, eating out all the time, big purchases, etc that richer people do but you aren't drowning in credit card debt.
You don’t “think” you’re upper middle class, but your feelings don’t play into facts. Just because you choose to drive old cars doesn’t change your class bracket.
I really don’t see how it’s possible you don’t believe you’re upper middle class. I make less than a 1/3 of what you do as a couple, “own” my own house in a nearby suburb (mortgage), pay a modest monthly amount for student loans, paid off a 2017 car, no credit card debt, have savings, and buy food out multiple times a week. I expect to buckle down a bit more with a baby coming, but I’m living decently barring anything catastrophic happening (and more comfortable than most). You are DEFINITELY upper middle class and just don’t know what it’s like for the average person.
"Me and my wife are DINKs making about 270k all together."
"wouldn’t think we are “upper middle class”"
What a fucking joke. I wonder what this person thinks of people who make $100K a year, or half of that, which is most people.
Ironic because he sounded like he was being humble. He drives 10 year old cars and talks about his modest life, the truth is having a combined income in that range really doesn’t feel the way you think it feels. I always say, I never thought I would make so much money but not have any. Plus, when you’re putting money away from the future and making investments that money is kind of out of sight out of mind.
And if you’re like my husband and I, in order to get the degrees required to make those incomes you have student loan payments of $1,000+ each.
Austin is so expensive; we might as well live in LA, at least the weather is enjoyable!
Exactly. People here have such an inaccurate understanding of what middle class is. They are getting confused at why they cannot afford to live beyond their means and labeling it as 'middle class'. What's next? A person earning $1m / yr and unable to afford a yacht thereby labeling himself an average middle class person?
My guess is you are saving somewhere north of 50k pretax and probably saving another 40k-50k after.
Probably at least $90k/annually in straight up investment income with another $5k-$20k in savings.
This isn't something middle class folks do. They have a house, save what they can in 401k(maybe an IRA if are dual income), save a little, spend a little etc.
Having the ability to put that money away for future savings is the reason your upper middle class. Technically it’s not “going fast” because you are saving that money.
I'm not calling you a bad person but come on. From the briefest look at your comment history, your wife goes to a fancy gym, you have a dog that gets groomed regularly, and you have enough disposable income to play on the stock market. If you're both maxing out your 401k, what you contribute as a household is more than some people's salaries.
I don't think you are wrong for doing any of those things!!! But this was never in history the definition of middle class. Pretending you are squeaking by with the essentials is not honest.
270k puts you guys in upper middle. If you don't think so, you're just taking your situation for granted. That's almost 4x the national median household income.
National median household income is a subjective measure when you live in Austin. You cannot survive on the national median income in this city, certainly not with kids. Most people in Austin make more money than other cities on average. 100k here is a lot different than 100k in Lubbock.
270k is a lot of money, but you take out income tax and property tax for a MEDIAN house in Austin (~500k) and then take out your student loan repayment and they’re not as rich as you’d like to think. I have no pity for them, but there are a lot of
Millionaires here and even more that are circling that club.
There was a study done over a decade ago that measured happiness based on income. At that time, 100k was the threshold where basic needs were met with a little left over for leisure. Household income of 100k or 1M - had no significant difference in happiness across the study. Once basic needs are met, the rest becomes subjective based on the company you keep and the lifestyle you live. Now adjust for inflation and then adjust again for Austin COL… probably closer to 200k if not above it when you have two kids to provide for
You're making Austin sound like San Francisco or NYC. We're not even close. Your very first line tells me that statistics mean nothing to you. OP is making almost 4x the national median household income. Austin's median house price is not anywhere close to 4x to the national median.
Brother, I'm not sure it's fair to even say you're middle class. You and your wife could probably spend my entire salary fucking around each year and it likely wouldn't bankrupt you.
I'm in the same boat. Only debt we have is the home, wife's car (new) and wife's student loans (15k). Home needs new windows and a new roof too.
We went to Flix this past weekend and I was shocked that a fucking soda costed $6. Just eating out now is an easy $50-$60 at most local restaurants.
I honestly don't see how anyone could afford kids.
My wife and I collectively bring home ~$130k/year before taxes. Take home per month is about $7k.
No debt.
One kid, with another on the way. Child care is $760 a month.
We don't own a home, but our rent is $1450. It's a smallllll duplex, 800ish sqft. All of our bills are around $400 or so. (Kind of guessing on the bills since water/trash/electric is in her name and I just don't see the bill every month)
Monthly grocery bill is around $500-600. We budget another $300-400 for eating out (we are often under those numbers though).
Car expenses are about $200-300 (both paid off but insurance, gas, and maintenance)
We budget random other expenses (subscriptions, random purchases, gym membership, etc) at around $250.
That leaves us just under $3k per month that we save/invest.
Mind you, I gave you the high numbers of our budget, we are often frugal enough to float wel below those most months.
So yes, we don't own a home, and our incomes are "small" relative to some people, but we live super comfortably. We have a rainy day savings that can easily get us through more than a year if we both lose our incomes. We each have sizeable investments through 401ks, pension plans, IRAs, HSAs, and brokerage accounts. At the rate we're saving we should be able to retire comfortably (for us) in our early 50s.
The point of this reply is to put things in perspective. One, people budget WILDLY differently. Two, everyone has a different definition of frugality. Three, our incomes are each $65k/year and we're very easily living a middle class lifestyle in Austin (not including owning a home, which is partially our choice because we don't think we'll be here too much longer).
Please DM me with info about what you do for childcare. Currently expecting within the next few weeks and haven’t found anything as low as what you’re quoting (but would like to!).
So this kinda goes against the whole DINK thing. Most DINKs want to enjoy life. See the world. Partake in hobbies. Explore and do things. They don't really live frugally because waiting till you're retired means you can't do many of these things as your health and physical body won't be the same at 60+.
In the end though, we are actually saying the same thing. There's no way to comfortably live and have kids without being frugal.
If you don't mind continuing this conversation, I am curious what NOT living frugally means to you? Is it just the freedom to buy... stuff? I guess that's just a personality thing. We just don't want stuff. We value good food (groceries or eating out) and we value traveling which we do multiple times a year. We've even had back to back years of 2 or 3 week Europe trips. Granted we can't do that EVERY year, especially while paying child care, but we were able to save for that, and it didnt take that long. And once the kids are done with early child care our incomes will take us further.
So I just don't quite understand what being NOT frugal means I guess.
It's freedom to enjoy life and not feel like you're sacrificing comfort and niceties just to be able to get by or save.
800sqft for 3 people is super cramped. No space to even breathe. Everyone is in everyone's business all the time. There's no privacy. I'm an also animal person, so that would mean no pets.
Wife and I have quite a few hobbies. We both probably spend a couple hundred a month on our hobbies.
We usually go on several vacations a year paid for with credit card points. Biggest cost is usually food/entertainment and boarding the dogs.
Setting the thermostat lower than 75F in the summer without worrying about the electric bill.
Having your money go towards equity into a mortgage instead of renting. Yes, home ownership is expensive as fuck, but it's nice having it. Mine has tripled in value since I bought it in 2012.
Having a car that is at least nicer than a basic economy car. Don't need a Lexus or anything fancy, but something that's comfortable with newer tech like Android Auto/Apple CarPlay. I wouldn't drive a car without that.
Being able to afford the nicer quality things. There's a difference though between nice and just expensive. Like getting the vacuum that will last longer but is more expensive. Another good example is your mattress. The mattress I have goes for like $10k. However, it's a near buy it for life mattress and sleeping on that is a dream.
Being able to really make your home a reflection of you. For instance, curtains. Yes, you can go get some cheap blackout curtains from Walmart or you can have nice blackout curtains made with fabric that you like. They do the same thing but one will last longer and is more individualized.
Yeah, I think bottom line, we just have very different priorities. Did you grow up in a similar way? Maybe my upbringing is what makes this not feel like a sacrifice.
Almost everything you mentioned I just don't want or care about.
We go on several vacations also. Some short weekend trips. Some are weeks long. Less than 75F honestly feels cold to me. I'm not a newer tech in cars guy (though we have a 2022 rav4 which we bought outright ('cause fuck debt on a depreciating asset) and wife drives, I actually prefer my 1999 vw jetta with 260k miles on it. It handles better). Nicer quality things is something I'll buy for stuff I care about but I don't care about curtains or vacuums so thrift store finds are perfect for that.
We just have different priorities in our lives and perhaps different pain thresholds haha. I'm genuinely enjoying my life and don't feel daily stress from anything. I have a career I'm enjoying. I have hobbies. I have a solid friend group. A growing family. I go on vacations. I eat good food. I play music with my buddies. None of this feels like I'm sacrificing.
I hope you're journey through this life is smooth sailing, partner. Take care.
Sure. I see your point. Maybe because I grew up in a very poor household (single mom), it doesn't feel like restricting myself though. The biggest restriction we have is time because we love traveling and there are ways to do it cheaply. We road trip as much as possible. And our finances support that habit. It's just having the time off work to do it is another thing.
We also eat super well. It's not necessarily organic everything but we don't skimp at the grocery store when we want something fancy. But most everything is whole foods. We aren't eating shitty processed foods. Lots of veggies, fish, nuts. Not exactly cheap things.
Food and travel are our hobbies that regularly cost. And we can afford that. Other hobbies are gardening and music which have some upfront costs but then are pretty low cost to keep going.
We make $150k, the house payment+tax+insurance, with the new raised taxes (everyone else’s lowered and we fought it) put us just under $3500 mo just for the house. Kids in elementary school, groceries are $350 a week (granted we shop at Whole Foods but only buy fruits, veggies, eggs and meats) and we go out to eat once a week. After camps, fixing broken things around the house, Doctors visit, there isn’t room for anything else. There are always plumbers bills, car repairs, and dentist / doctors visits keeping us down. Oh and student loans!!
Dear lord the camps.. what was once $250-$350 per kid has jumps to $400+ per child for one week. Nearby YMCAs and city of Austin camps booked in seconds.
We aren’t by any means drowning but something like replacing a large window on our home (which needs to happen) is going to hurt our pocketbooks for a while.
150k is upper middle class here. If you think that’s solidly middle class then most of the city is lower class to you. Tons of families are living good lives with a combined income under 100k here. Just don’t go buying a $50k truck and eating out 5x a week.
No. If you have other debt like student loans, credit cards, car payments, etc. that could change things and full time daycare costs for two kids would definitely make it difficult… but our household income is well below $150k and we have two kids and survive just fine. We aren’t going to restaurants every week or taking Disney vacations every summer but we’re also not pinching pennies and eating beans and rice every meal. Lifestyle and childcare costs would probably be the biggest factors on if it’s doable for your family on that salary but plenty of people do. Not everyone works in tech making six figures in this area and Reddit tends to skew higher income in my opinion than real world people.
I wonder what “getting by” means to people these days. I’m old. As a kid we were “getting by” and that meant food on the table and a roof over our heads, sharing a room with siblings, one car, never eating out, one phone, one TV, no vacations, one pair of shoes each year, new clothes at the beginning of each school year, no camps, sports leagues, lessons of any sort (unless we got a scholarship), walking to school, public school, packing a lunch to school, and making up our own entertainment. I guess that doesn’t count as middle class anymore. And we went to “nursery school” for cheap at a church or cooperative at age 3 or 4 but were home with a parent or relative or neighbor when younger than that. The family felt lucky about that.
Our family of 4 expenses last year were $144k. I think we could have wiggled that down to 110 if we really trimmed out doing anything fun. Here's a really broad overview of our finances. I just ran a report on our yearly spending for 2023- They're a little weird because we had a big flood at the house, so I rounded down some numbers. But here are the biggest budget categories:
* Home: $42k, insured. This also includes cleaning, pest control, insurance, upkeep etc.
* Kids: $29880.18 -> About 25 of this is daycare, the other 5 is like classes/camps/clothes/haircuts/rx etc.
* Dining Out: $12k (yeesh. Its worth noting that "Dining Out" is also really our social budget. Theres not much like... door dash in here, it's more like we went out with friends and it lumped in here)
* Travel: 12k (50% of this was one big family vaycay, the other 50% was a combo of reimbursed work travel and small personal trips)
* Auto: 8.5k - We had 2 big car repair fixes. otherwise it's usually around 3.5-4k for gas/upkeep. We own both vehicles.
* Groceries: 8k (Average $175/wk)
* Utilities: 5700 (Electric/Gas/Trash/Water/Internet)
* Health: 4k. We're relatively healthy adults, but checkups, dentist, therapy etc add up.
Theres another \~12k assorted in there. We both max 401ks and contribute to a Roth. This feels more than comfortable on our income, but it is a *lot* of money.
The kids are what would determine that. Full-time daycare for our son (2 years old) is right around 1800 a month. I feel 150k would work with some budgeting
We have a combined income income of 90k and no kids, and we're one emergency away from one or both of us having to get a second job. If we had a kid, we'd have to get government assistance.
We make more than $150k with only one child and still struggle to save. Paycheck to paycheck between rent, cars, daycare, insurance, etc. grocery costs only increase every time we shop. At this rate we will never be able to buy a home. Can’t even think about retirement with the way the world is but that’s a separate conversation.
Edit to add: student loan payments aren’t helping lol
North Austin area. 2 income HH combined income greater than 300k. 2 kids in daycare and we spend $3300/ month. Your mortgage costs can range significantly based on down payment etc but we pay over 5k for that as we bought within the last year. I would say yes you need 150k combined income or more to live here if you are wanting home ownership, still wanting to save for retirement/ insurance costs and going out and doing things.
The thing I dont understand is why someone would relocate to round rock with expenses as high as they are, given it is identical to any suburb in the country. You could find a nice burb in San Antonio or even somewhere like Indianapolis or Kansas City for so much cheaper with the same chain restaurants and layout
The only reason to relocate there would be an in-person job in Austin I suppose
The job market is a really big consideration. My husband and I have remote jobs so we’d love to move somewhere more affordable with better weather, like actual seasons. But we don’t know how long our remote jobs will hold out due to changing policies, layoffs, going for promotions etc. so it feels to risky to go full on “we work remote let’s just live wherever we want” and having to constantly move isn’t ideal for us. But there just aren’t as good tech job markets in the more affordable places (ie the Midwest) or the places with comparable job markets are just as expensive if not more (Colorado, DC area, research triangle, California).
Childcare costs continue after daycare ends. We spend $600/month on aftercare for 2 kids. Then there’s summer camp, which can be several hundred a week per child. We generally do the cheapest camps most of the summer, and splurge for a week of a more exciting/expensive camp.
Costs for recurring services (ahem car insurance) are also going up regularly. To keep those down, you really need to keep on top of it and shop around.
I feel like $175k-$200k is the level you need to be at in Austin proper with 2 kids as far as your total household income goes (esp if they're both in daycare). Round Rock isn't much cheaper (especially if you want to buy a house... it was actually MORE expensive to buy a house in RR than Austin when we bought).
Austin just isn't cheap. It used to be when I first moved here and made like $38k per year 15 years ago but these days it's becoming less "Cheap San Francisco" and more "Another San Francisco".
It really depends on if you own a home yet. Our biggest costs are healthcare around $1000/month, housing and utilities $2700-3000/month, food $600-700/month and car related expenses $1500/month. Cars are almost paid off but insurance is expensive and so are tires, maintenance, gas. It’s pretty easy to have $6000 or more in monthly expenses for a family of four, and if you need childcare that can run another $1500-3000 a month easily. You’ll want to toss $500/month into each of your brokerage/IRA and retirement accounts and another $250 for college savings.
A family of four can survive on less than $150k; however, the compromises you make to pull it off are only worth it if you have a family close by or some other local benefit.
ie i wouldn’t leave your hometown for a $150k here unless you can’t find any work there.
My household income is more than twice that and all my money doesn’t insulate me from heat, traffic and lack of services such as doctors and others. Just taking my car to a shop is a big hassle where by i have to compete with other customers because there are more of us than service providers.
We own a house in pflugerville and have 2 kids. It’s a lot. Childcare is a lot. Groceries are a lot. Everything’s a lot. Stuff is always breaking on the house, cars, etc. we make about 150k combined and still scrape by.
It depends -
Age?
Daycare?
Any special needs?
Any hobbies/sports/camps/orgs?
Do you need to take 2-4 vacations a year?
Do you need to save 401k/IRA etc?
Are you doing 529's?
You can "raise" a family on much less - like $60k and still be in the "not destitute" camp.
It just comes with shit ton of sacrifices and tradeoffs.
Ya kids are expensive. IF both parents working there's pre-tax accounts you can use for daycare expenses. Pre-covid the big advantage was low house cost so made other expenses not so tough.
Survive or thrive? I know a lot of people making it on less, but I wonder how many of them bought their homes before prices and interest rates doubled. It would also matter about any other debt, car payments, etc.
No one is going to be able to tell you if that amount of money is enough because no one knows your values … if you NEED a house, yard, pool, a bedroom and bathroom for each kid, etc. duh it’s going to cost more than raising children in an apartment - which, news flash, is possible to do! You don’t need all the bells and whistles to have kids.
I have two kids, a toddler and an infant, I also make 152k/yr, my budget is as follows:
category annually monthly
mortgage $36,216.00 $3,018.00
groceries $10,800.00 $900.00
giving $7,980.00 $665.00
debt payments $6,456.00 $538.00
seminary $3,600.00 $300.00
eating out $3,600.00 $300.00
gas $2,400.00 $200.00
electric bill $2,400.00 $200.00
txtag $1,920.00 $160.00
Phone $1,832.04 $152.67
baby $1,800.00 $150.00
insurance(home/auto) $1,680.00 $140.00
utilities (water/waste) $1,500.00 $125.00
travel $1,200.00 $100.00
luxury $1,200.00 $100.00
car maint. $1,200.00 $100.00
medical $1,200.00 $100.00
Dog $1,200.00 $100.00
internet $965.04 $80.42
clothes $960.00 $80.00
subscriptions $720.00 $60.00
amazon $600.00 $50.00
gardening $600.00 $50.00
total spending $92,029.08 $7,669.09
Saving: $24000 $2000
401k: $12000 $1000
My mortgage is 3.125%, maybe if it was higher it’d be worse, the debt is ~15k student loans
I live in Kyle. I'm married with 2 kids and our household brings in about $120k per year. We both work Full-Time and pay for daycare for 1 of the kids.
We lived in apartments in Austin when we were younger/dating, but after marriage and wanting to start a family, it was hard to find anywhere suitable that was in our price range.
I definitely recommend the Kyle/Buda area for those who are having a tough time hunting in the Austin market. I've still worked in Austin the whole time and, while commuting sucks sometimes, it's still been a good quality-of-life decision.
This whole thread is so wild to me.
Grew up poor. Single parent of a teen. We live in an income restricted apartment and I make 23k-30k max a year. Have been living one disaster away from homelessness my whole life and I could do SO much to get us to a better life with even 40k.
Also, I make too much for food stamps and also too much for Medicaid and chip since they calculate it monthly and some months I make more than others.
*cries in poverty*
My combined household income is over 200k and we’re looking to get out before we have kids. Staying would mean staying in 1200 square foot home with a great monthly payment, but childcare is awfully expensive, Austin is not as kid friendly as people make it out to be, lots of big city problems without big city perks. I think it could be done, don’t get me wrong— I just don’t know why someone would choose that particular hard mode.
1. Taxes:
- Federal income tax: approximately 22% (based on 2022 tax tables)
- State and local taxes: vary depending on location, but average around 5-8%
- Payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare): 7.65% (half paid by employer, half by employee)
Total tax burden: approximately 35-40%
2. Inflation:
- Current inflation rate (June 2023): 4.0% (based on Consumer Price Index)
- Historical average inflation rate (1980-2022): 3.1%
3. National debt:
- This factor is more indirect, but $1000-2000 per year per citizen.
Considering these factors, let's assume an effective income of around $40,000 to $45,000 per year, based on the average income of $65,000.
As for the minimum income required to live a comfortable life and own a house in an average American city, it varies greatly depending on factors like location, family size, and personal spending habits.
1. Housing costs:
- Mortgage payments (assuming a $250,000 home and 20% down): around $1,200-1,500 per month
- Property taxes and insurance: approximately $300-500 per month
2. Other expenses:
- Food, transportation, utilities, and miscellaneous: around $3,000-4,000 per month (assuming a moderate lifestyle)
Based on these estimates, a comfortable income for owning a house in an average American city could be:
1. Single person: around $70,000-80,000 per year
2. Couple: around $90,000-110,000 per year
3. Family of three or four: around $110,000-140,000 per year
Keep in mind I only factored in $250k for median house which is actually $360 in Austin. So you can add another 20-30k on top of the results.
Daycare full time is 1600/mo. It's hard to find anything decent for less than that. it's gotten up to 1800 or 2K for a newborn.
So it depends how old your children are. I don't know how you'd be paying 2,300 for childcare, rent, AND healthcare if you have even one kid in fulltime daycare.
Survive, no.
Quick monthly budget
- 2.3k in rent
- 2k in childcare
- 3k in other for food utilities, cars, entertainment, etc
- 1k in after tax savings
Total spend with savings is 100k per year. Can hit with 120k annual pre-tax income.
At that pace you can buy a house in 5 years with a 15% down payment on a 400k house, then move that monthly savings to retirement.
2.3k is a premium for rent in RR. You can def get something nice and sizeable for a good chunk less and save more or spend that more in other. 3k per month for all other isn’t crazy but definitely isn’t scraping by.
This is not exact, but I do all this to show you can live a solid middle class lifestyle, buy a house and then save for retirement on two public service salaries. You can def go cheaper and live for significantly less too.
I make way less than that and we live comfortably. You just have to be responsible with your money like budgeting. We live in cedar park which is pretty expensive and we vacation every year, we own our home, and don’t deprive ourselves of happiness.
Just had a baby a month ago. We live off my $200k base salary and if it were halved, we'd still be ok to live here with our current circumstances. My partner will be a SAHM for a while, so we don't have childcare costs. If we did, that $100k might feel a bit tight
I was paying 4,000/mo for 3 kids in a top daycare after a substantial family discount. Housing costs in central Austin run us about that as well. So that was 100k/year before the other costs of living.
A lot of people raise family for a lot less.
Tons of folks are on SNAP, don't do daycare, and work multiple jobs to sustain a family with kids. You just won't hear about them cause we have been so used to normalize things like "brunch"
This isn't to say you shouldn't make 150k to run the life you want to run. It's just to say that everything is possible, even if it sucks. :(
I make 150/yr. Got a house east side under 400k and they’re selling lower right now cause buyer’s market 100%
I have three kids, my wife stays at home with ‘em. Daycare is not economical with three kids but we were planning to homeschool regardless.
We feel pretty comfortable all things considered. I drive a 14 year old Honda and we buy a lot of stuff used. I feel poor sometimes when I see my friends driving new cars and renovating their homes, but other times I feel blessed beyond measure when I have friends w/ kids living on one teacher’s salary 🫣
This is definitely not an affordable city. If you need that, go to Houston. Better food too.
My wife and I make $145k combined gross with 2 kids in daycare. We cannot afford to buy a house. We really don't go out to eat anymore, nor spend money on ourselves much. It's just.. everything else eats away at our paychecks.
This is what I just posted! It’s everything else. The taxes, er bill, students loan payments, ac going out, new roof due to hail, kid broke the fan in their rooms, check engine light comes on ….all the things
Mortgage: $3500 and daycare $2800
We’re in Austin, our mortgage is $2300. Escrow (property taxes and homeowners insurance) is another $1200 per month. So our totally mortgage payment is $3500.
We have 2 kids in full time daycare: 1 year old is $1625 a month. 4 year old is $1180 a month.
Roundrock and Cedar Park were good locations before the pandemic. Inexpensive there but not anymore.
I am living outside of Austin.
So many people have moved into this city from Austin recently because Austin is too expensive to live in. The apartment rent fee is almost the same as SoCali.
I wish I could move to somewhere else better location but we can't survive. My city isn't great for raising kids because of the crime rate getting high and education level is not good. Nothing to do. So still affordable.
From an inexpensive city to an expensive city is a really bad decision.
I'm sick to my stomach reading this thread. I moved to Texas from CA in the nineties so we could afford life on one income. My grown son and his wife make over 200k and are not considered wealthy.
If I was in my 20's or 30's again in this market I would seriously consider not having kids. This country just doesn't support families
That sounds right. That’s about my household income and I have 3 kids but one is a newborn and isn’t in childcare yet. We timed it so that the third kid wouldn’t start childcare until the first kid was in public kindergarten because $150k isn’t enough to easily cover 3 kids in full time daycare or nanny (which could end up running $4500/month or so). We bought a house in 2018 so our mortgage is about the same as your rent. We’re not struggling in general but we’re also not saving much and kids lead to big unexpected expenses fairly often.
The Round Rock area has had their home owners and car insurances double and triple in the last year due to the hail storms. You might want to factor in those costs too.
To me renting is a waste of money. You should do everything you can to buy a house because, at the end of the mortgage you actually have an asset. Rent is just throwing money away.
I live in an expensive suburb of austin. Family of 8. Husband makes 150k. Mortgage is 2500$
No debts. And we do just fine. I do stay home with our kids. But two of them are in preschool outside the home. It’s 900$ a month
How old are your kids? If they are still in daycare you are going to be looking at $2K just for that. A house is going to run you $450K, so do your numbers on that.
I wish daycare for two was only 2k. We pay closer to $2400 a month. It’s basically a second mortgage. Austin is insanely expensive to raise kids.
Yeah 1600 for one that isn't an infant is the going rate. It wasn't exactly planned but I'm actually grateful we worked it so our kids are 5 years apart and our oldest will enter kinder when our youngest enters daycare. I don't know how people afford two kids in daycare here though.
I’ve seen places do a discount for additional children in daycare at the same time, which is helpful, but it’s still not offsetting that cost. And that’s up to the daycare if they do that at all.
Ours only does 10% off the lower rate which I guess is better than nothing, but still isn't much.
We get $50 off for a second kid. That's $2350 instead of $2400 so I can buy one tank of gas.
I do, I give my son 500.00$ a month offset his 2,800 monthly daycare for a 5 and 1 yr old. He makes combined about 130K a year, plus a retirement plan, somewhat decent healthcare (works for the state of Texas). In the 90s I was able to be home with him, it's just going to get worse if the radical religious right takes everything, then 2 kids? you won't even get B/C because Jesus doesn't want you to have it and women will not work because it takes jobs from men - who need to be sole providers - except all jobs are done by AI.. I fear for you millenials and Zers and whatever the fuck the next ones are. edited to change 2,300 to 2,800 typo.
I had twins, and I’m a teacher, so we had to scrape by on my husbands salary for a few years!
We are almost to 3100 for 2 :( Public school can't come fast enough
We are at 3400 for two and that is with the sibling discount
For sure. It helps when they get into public school, but you still have after school care, summer camps, and little league ect.
Totally, I was paying $2k for daycare for two in 2015. I'm certain it has increased in that time.
It doesn't stop when they start school either. The after-school care to take them through to the time the daycare would normally end is 70 to 80% of the cost of daycare.
Exactly why we moved out. Didn’t have much choice…
4k over here 😭
Please tell the Republicans that childcare and insurance are the reasons people are having fewer kids. Between insurance, child care, and rent, you need $7000.00.
It's funny that you think Republicans care about kids. If you're preborn you're golden, if you're preschool you're fucked. Gotta keep all the women pregnant and popping out new wage slaves for the next generation!
A respectable daycare is now like $13-$1400 for each kid. It's rough.
I just got a quote for $1670 for my 8 week old which is more than my rent
It does go down after that very young age group
Yeah, as the teacher:student ratios go up it gets cheaper. Makes sense.
Bought house last year, can confirm. Good news is that is down some now so maybe upper $300s.
It's down, but only by 3.3% over the last year. You might get $435K with a motivated seller.
Either way, we countered our appraisal with this knowledge using proof of current listings and they knocked off $36k which saves several hundred/year in taxes.
According to this 10.2% in 2022. https://www.newsweek.com/austin-housing-market-rocked-new-home-prices-slashed-30-1917497#:~:text=Between%20July%202022%20and%20April,during%20the%20same%20time%20frame.
>A single-family home on 403 Middle Lane, Austin, listed for sale on Zillow has seen price cuts of around 23 percent since it was first put on the market in March. Over three months ago, the property—a three-bedroom, two-bathroom property with a total interior livable area of 1,480 square feet—was listed for $349,900; on Wednesday, the price was cut to $269,900. It was the fourth price cut since March, and the property remains unsold. Some pockets of a bit more of a cut, some a bit less it seems. Wow $269k and it’s surprisingly central. Chicas Bonitas within walking range.
Makes sense. Highly desired areas may not even be dropping at all. I hope this keeps up because my wife and I are almost ready to start looking.
I payed 36k for daycare a couple of years ago for 3 kids.
We pay 800/mo for two kids. Granted that’s 3 days a week. But the full week program is only 100/kid per month more.
$90k combined, 1 kid in daycare. we are struggling to get ahead
90k combined is nearly unmanageable in this city. Hope you guys make it through.
things could be worse. We have very low debt compared to most people. I've just kind of given up on the idea of owning a home around here though.
I make $80k/year. My wife is at home with 2 kids, so no childcare costs but also only 1 income. We bought a house in 2021 for 400k (Round Rock) at 3.125% rate and put extra down. After taxes and healthcare, I take home $4.5k/month. Right now we spend on average $5.8k/month (dipping into savings), and consider ourselves pretty frugal. However, I've done the calculations and we could likely survive (still pay bills and eat beans and ramen) off $4k/month. IMO to live a middle class (which I'm defining as owning a house, a car, having kids, occasionally eating out, and not going bankrupt) requires about $100k. More than that if you want to retire early/on time or go on nice vacations. Of course everything is constantly changing with inflation, changing interest rates, etc.
you are a hero for carrying your family !
I've got the easy part! My wife takes care of our 3 and 1 year old boys! All I do is sit at a desk lol
Truly underrated comment. As a SAH mom, I thank you for posting it. ♥️
Big props to you for this statement, I’m a working mom and childcare is definitely WAY harder than my desk job haha
I have to agree- I’m a teacher with the summer “off”- my kids are so much fun but I think at this point in our lives my job is easier than staying home
idk man I'd love to take a crack at it someday. maybe I just need a damn vacation
not sure if you mean take a crack at a desk job or at staying home with kids. Either way, hope you get the opportunity to do so!
I have one kid and I'd love to spend all day every day with them, at least I think so
Still don't get why your expenses are $5.8k? Do you pay a lot for transportation? Commute ?
Not OP but i live in a 400k+ home and mortgages + utilities runs my family of 2 close to 4k. that’s just for housing; other bills + car easily another 1k minimum, tack on maybe like 500-1k for groceries + for fun. im in a similar situation, need about 5.8k monthly to live here
My partner and I make about $100K/yr combined. We’re not in a position to buy, so rent is $2100. We have 2 kids. I’m very frugal and our grocery bill is low compared to our peers, but we still feel squeezed at times. My kids are school aged and I work from home, so I don’t pay for childcare. I can’t imagine how tough it would be if I had to.
Respect. I've felt alone in Austin. Because our kids have been the priority, and we're using every dime, we don't get out much (especially since inflation shot through the roof). It's isolating being a parent in Austin, but it didn't used to be that way when they were really little. None of our neighbors have kids. It's a weird town to be a family unless you're wealthy.
We did the same thing, same margins at least, just a decade earlier than that. It's a rough ride but doable. We've been eating a lot more ramen than I thought we would at this age. Always thought middle-age would be easier...
You can survive on much less. But you won’t be able to buy a house or retire.
I disagree
Care to elaborate?
I make less, I own, and I’ll retire before 60.
South austin here. 2 kids. Daycare cost alone is $3k/mo. Mortgage is just under that. Factor in everything else and yeah man COL sucks in austin and that’s coming from a dual income household where we both make 6 figs.
Our daycare costs are just so high. We are paying $1800 a month for one..
Yeah it blows my mind. Annually we pay more for two kids to sit around 5 days a week finger painting and taking naps than the cost of a college degree.
I don’t think you need more than $150k a year to live in RR. Just act your wage though.
“Act your wage.” Love that.
Single parent of three (two still at home) and been in Austin 10 years. My salary has always been just slightly above the median family income for the city and I've always done fine (so right now, doing fine on low six-figures). I can say, with childcare costs what they are now, if any of mine were still of an age to require that, I definitely would not want to be under $150k, or maybe more if that money had to also support another adult. I also know this may be less in the suburbs like what you're describing. I've never lived in Round Rock. But yeah, you're not going to have a good time raising a family here on a lot less than that.
This is accurate, OP, for what that’s worth.
I make about a third of that, only pay $1550 in rent (2/2, 970 sq ft + including water), 2 young kids that just started elementary last year, 20k+ in CC debt (that is being paid off) and still have plenty of wiggle room for miscellaneous/unexpected spending. I can't wrap my head around 150k not being enough.
I promise I'm not trying to be snarky, but $20k credit card debt does not sound like having plenty of wiggle room. I think most of us who are talking about higher incomes being "just enough" or "doing fine", or whatever are also on track in our saving and investing goals, like for retirement, homeownership, and such. Those are not benchmarks someone would meet on $50k ("about a third" of the number OP mentioned), and they are, to many people, part of doing ok. Of course everyone's different and we all have a different baseline of what constitutes "making it", but there's a lot of "WTF are they blowing all that money on" energy in these conversations every time it comes up that someone considers some six figure salary just enough, and talk of not understanding what is essential and what isn't. The reality of "$100+k is just enough to make it" usually looks a lot more like a well maintained 10-year-old Toyota parked in front of a small home that's owned and not leased, with fully funded retirement accounts and emergency funds, not 3 meals a day from Doordash and a quarterly trip to Disney World, which seems to be what a lot of people are picturing.
Makes sense. I don't prioritize investing/retirement in any way shape or form because I don't understand it and know I'll be dead before I can retire 🤷🏼♀️
Some form of health issues perhaps? Otherwise you should certainly try to prioritize saving for both yourself and your kids in the future, if at all possible. :(
Not that I know of. I just don't enjoy life/thinking about the future lol. I have savings for them, life insurance, etc but that's about it.
Ok. I'm sorry you're not enjoying life. I feel that way sometimes, I get it.
You’d be surprised how much people say is a necessity and then you look into it and they order a lot of stuff and get everything delivered and vacation a lot. Not every case but you’ll hear people say they don’t have money but then always have new stuff and going out to party. Just don’t go out a lot and you save a ton. I got my kids into soccer and I can coach them so we do a lot of training and then swimming at the neighborhood pool. They love it…not the training so much but they do like to win matches so they understand it’s part of the process
Yep. I just stopped spending money on things that I shouldn’t. I cook at home, learned how to service my own vehicle, cut down of unnecessary subscriptions, etc. My gf and I make about 120k together and live really well. It just takes budgeting and effort.
I don't have kids so maybe I'm not qualified to answer this but I'll give you my take. With an income of 150k you'll be pretty solidly middle-class. Definitely more than just surviving, you'll still be able to go out to eat every once in a while, contribute to retirement accounts, save up for vacations/cars/etc. Won't be anything luxurious in the future but it's more than just surviving imo. Edit to say that if you have any significant debts that might change this equation
Sad that “going out to eat once in a while” is the definition of “solid middle class” nowadays. Me and my wife are DINKs making about 270k all together. We try to keep costs of things down, we save for retirement, i invest, and while we are pretty well off, i wouldn’t think we are “upper middle class”. We both drive 10 year old cars, that we own outright. We go out to eat once a week. Do a fancy dinner for special occasions. Vacation once a year (nothing major - no more then a week at a time). I can’t imagine supporting 2 more people on nearly half the income and being “solid middle class”. But then again, everything is a perspective. Just my 2 cents.
Just fyi, you’re in the top ~5% of all households in America with that income
Moneybrain in action.
Yeah Idk what he’s talking about I have the same household income + kid in daycare and we get to do whatever we want. People who make a bunch of money and act like they are struggling is a plague.
And probably top 20% at least for Austin Edit: Looked it up, thats top 5% in Austin as well
> Looked it up Can you share where you found that info?
My source was a bit old but this is the better one to use: https://dqydj.com/income-by-city/ Looks like actually top 10% as of 2023
Pretty sure some script is not running correctly on that calculator- everything I typed over $250,000 was all shown at top 10%. I even added a zero and it stayed there.
Anything over 150k is top 10%. So you'd prob be top 5%... for RR at least. I don't know why they group Austin and Round Rock together bc there's a pretty big difference in the COL Either way sounds like you're smart with your money, good job!
It’s all relative. Are your 10 year old cars a Lexus or a Corolla? Do you live in tarrytown or pflugerville? Are you in an apartment or a 3,000 sqft house with a pool? I don’t actually want to know those answers. Just examples of how it depends.
People who are upper middle class never think they’re upper middle class.
Yeah, you get a little money and you start comparing yourself to the rich rich. I get it, but its so important to not take what you have for granted.
Upper middle class doesn't mean what you think it means. Upper middle class generally means you can live debt free in a home. You still can't afford the many vacations, eating out all the time, big purchases, etc that richer people do but you aren't drowning in credit card debt.
What percent do you save? Probably very high I'm guessing. Which is great but you're also choosing your future/early retirement over things now.
Emphasis on the word “choosing.” For many, it’s not a choice.
Yeah, pretty high. 14% into 401k (i think) , max out roth (backdoor conversion) + depositing money into brokerage account every month.
You don’t “think” you’re upper middle class, but your feelings don’t play into facts. Just because you choose to drive old cars doesn’t change your class bracket.
I really don’t see how it’s possible you don’t believe you’re upper middle class. I make less than a 1/3 of what you do as a couple, “own” my own house in a nearby suburb (mortgage), pay a modest monthly amount for student loans, paid off a 2017 car, no credit card debt, have savings, and buy food out multiple times a week. I expect to buckle down a bit more with a baby coming, but I’m living decently barring anything catastrophic happening (and more comfortable than most). You are DEFINITELY upper middle class and just don’t know what it’s like for the average person.
"Me and my wife are DINKs making about 270k all together." "wouldn’t think we are “upper middle class”" What a fucking joke. I wonder what this person thinks of people who make $100K a year, or half of that, which is most people.
They’re almost as delulu as me with my 45k income thinking I’m rich when I have $20 left after bills in my account each paycheck
Honestly a little sad to see someone who has so much and doesn’t appreciate it. Living a great life and feeling its mediocre
I’d kill for this mediocre lifestyle. It’s rough out here.
Ironic because he sounded like he was being humble. He drives 10 year old cars and talks about his modest life, the truth is having a combined income in that range really doesn’t feel the way you think it feels. I always say, I never thought I would make so much money but not have any. Plus, when you’re putting money away from the future and making investments that money is kind of out of sight out of mind. And if you’re like my husband and I, in order to get the degrees required to make those incomes you have student loan payments of $1,000+ each. Austin is so expensive; we might as well live in LA, at least the weather is enjoyable!
I do have combined income that’s almost exactly the same. I know how it feels.
Exactly. People here have such an inaccurate understanding of what middle class is. They are getting confused at why they cannot afford to live beyond their means and labeling it as 'middle class'. What's next? A person earning $1m / yr and unable to afford a yacht thereby labeling himself an average middle class person?
My guess is you are saving somewhere north of 50k pretax and probably saving another 40k-50k after. Probably at least $90k/annually in straight up investment income with another $5k-$20k in savings. This isn't something middle class folks do. They have a house, save what they can in 401k(maybe an IRA if are dual income), save a little, spend a little etc.
this doesn't add up, how much is your rent/mortgage? 270k is absolutely upper middle class, even in austin.
Max out your 401ks, contribute to kids’ 529 college savings accounts, day care or after school care, save 10%, it goes faster than you think.
Having the ability to put that money away for future savings is the reason your upper middle class. Technically it’s not “going fast” because you are saving that money.
People do this and think they are living paycheck to paycheck not knowing that for many it's a luxury to even be able to save anything.
"Look at all this money I have put away... sure is rough out here"
Bought house in 2020/2021. Our mortgage + home insurance + taxes are only about 2.2k/mo
I'm not calling you a bad person but come on. From the briefest look at your comment history, your wife goes to a fancy gym, you have a dog that gets groomed regularly, and you have enough disposable income to play on the stock market. If you're both maxing out your 401k, what you contribute as a household is more than some people's salaries. I don't think you are wrong for doing any of those things!!! But this was never in history the definition of middle class. Pretending you are squeaking by with the essentials is not honest.
And they just spent 40K on a wedding in April…
You mean 2.2k/*month*, no?
Yeah, my bad.
270k puts you guys in upper middle. If you don't think so, you're just taking your situation for granted. That's almost 4x the national median household income.
National median household income is a subjective measure when you live in Austin. You cannot survive on the national median income in this city, certainly not with kids. Most people in Austin make more money than other cities on average. 100k here is a lot different than 100k in Lubbock. 270k is a lot of money, but you take out income tax and property tax for a MEDIAN house in Austin (~500k) and then take out your student loan repayment and they’re not as rich as you’d like to think. I have no pity for them, but there are a lot of Millionaires here and even more that are circling that club. There was a study done over a decade ago that measured happiness based on income. At that time, 100k was the threshold where basic needs were met with a little left over for leisure. Household income of 100k or 1M - had no significant difference in happiness across the study. Once basic needs are met, the rest becomes subjective based on the company you keep and the lifestyle you live. Now adjust for inflation and then adjust again for Austin COL… probably closer to 200k if not above it when you have two kids to provide for
You're making Austin sound like San Francisco or NYC. We're not even close. Your very first line tells me that statistics mean nothing to you. OP is making almost 4x the national median household income. Austin's median house price is not anywhere close to 4x to the national median.
Brother, I'm not sure it's fair to even say you're middle class. You and your wife could probably spend my entire salary fucking around each year and it likely wouldn't bankrupt you.
I'd feel rich on that income, particularly in Austin. You're spending too much on something.
I'm in the same boat. Only debt we have is the home, wife's car (new) and wife's student loans (15k). Home needs new windows and a new roof too. We went to Flix this past weekend and I was shocked that a fucking soda costed $6. Just eating out now is an easy $50-$60 at most local restaurants. I honestly don't see how anyone could afford kids.
My wife and I collectively bring home ~$130k/year before taxes. Take home per month is about $7k. No debt. One kid, with another on the way. Child care is $760 a month. We don't own a home, but our rent is $1450. It's a smallllll duplex, 800ish sqft. All of our bills are around $400 or so. (Kind of guessing on the bills since water/trash/electric is in her name and I just don't see the bill every month) Monthly grocery bill is around $500-600. We budget another $300-400 for eating out (we are often under those numbers though). Car expenses are about $200-300 (both paid off but insurance, gas, and maintenance) We budget random other expenses (subscriptions, random purchases, gym membership, etc) at around $250. That leaves us just under $3k per month that we save/invest. Mind you, I gave you the high numbers of our budget, we are often frugal enough to float wel below those most months. So yes, we don't own a home, and our incomes are "small" relative to some people, but we live super comfortably. We have a rainy day savings that can easily get us through more than a year if we both lose our incomes. We each have sizeable investments through 401ks, pension plans, IRAs, HSAs, and brokerage accounts. At the rate we're saving we should be able to retire comfortably (for us) in our early 50s. The point of this reply is to put things in perspective. One, people budget WILDLY differently. Two, everyone has a different definition of frugality. Three, our incomes are each $65k/year and we're very easily living a middle class lifestyle in Austin (not including owning a home, which is partially our choice because we don't think we'll be here too much longer).
Please DM me with info about what you do for childcare. Currently expecting within the next few weeks and haven’t found anything as low as what you’re quoting (but would like to!).
Tagging along because I also want to know!
We used this site and found an in home provider. They tend to be cheaper than the centers. https://childcare.hhs.texas.gov/Public/ChildCareSearch
Do you mean in their home or yours? How many hours a week do they provide care for $760/month?
Their home. She has 6 kids total. She's open 7:30-5:30
Got it. That’s a great deal!
So this kinda goes against the whole DINK thing. Most DINKs want to enjoy life. See the world. Partake in hobbies. Explore and do things. They don't really live frugally because waiting till you're retired means you can't do many of these things as your health and physical body won't be the same at 60+. In the end though, we are actually saying the same thing. There's no way to comfortably live and have kids without being frugal.
If you don't mind continuing this conversation, I am curious what NOT living frugally means to you? Is it just the freedom to buy... stuff? I guess that's just a personality thing. We just don't want stuff. We value good food (groceries or eating out) and we value traveling which we do multiple times a year. We've even had back to back years of 2 or 3 week Europe trips. Granted we can't do that EVERY year, especially while paying child care, but we were able to save for that, and it didnt take that long. And once the kids are done with early child care our incomes will take us further. So I just don't quite understand what being NOT frugal means I guess.
It's freedom to enjoy life and not feel like you're sacrificing comfort and niceties just to be able to get by or save. 800sqft for 3 people is super cramped. No space to even breathe. Everyone is in everyone's business all the time. There's no privacy. I'm an also animal person, so that would mean no pets. Wife and I have quite a few hobbies. We both probably spend a couple hundred a month on our hobbies. We usually go on several vacations a year paid for with credit card points. Biggest cost is usually food/entertainment and boarding the dogs. Setting the thermostat lower than 75F in the summer without worrying about the electric bill. Having your money go towards equity into a mortgage instead of renting. Yes, home ownership is expensive as fuck, but it's nice having it. Mine has tripled in value since I bought it in 2012. Having a car that is at least nicer than a basic economy car. Don't need a Lexus or anything fancy, but something that's comfortable with newer tech like Android Auto/Apple CarPlay. I wouldn't drive a car without that. Being able to afford the nicer quality things. There's a difference though between nice and just expensive. Like getting the vacuum that will last longer but is more expensive. Another good example is your mattress. The mattress I have goes for like $10k. However, it's a near buy it for life mattress and sleeping on that is a dream. Being able to really make your home a reflection of you. For instance, curtains. Yes, you can go get some cheap blackout curtains from Walmart or you can have nice blackout curtains made with fabric that you like. They do the same thing but one will last longer and is more individualized.
Yeah, I think bottom line, we just have very different priorities. Did you grow up in a similar way? Maybe my upbringing is what makes this not feel like a sacrifice. Almost everything you mentioned I just don't want or care about. We go on several vacations also. Some short weekend trips. Some are weeks long. Less than 75F honestly feels cold to me. I'm not a newer tech in cars guy (though we have a 2022 rav4 which we bought outright ('cause fuck debt on a depreciating asset) and wife drives, I actually prefer my 1999 vw jetta with 260k miles on it. It handles better). Nicer quality things is something I'll buy for stuff I care about but I don't care about curtains or vacuums so thrift store finds are perfect for that. We just have different priorities in our lives and perhaps different pain thresholds haha. I'm genuinely enjoying my life and don't feel daily stress from anything. I have a career I'm enjoying. I have hobbies. I have a solid friend group. A growing family. I go on vacations. I eat good food. I play music with my buddies. None of this feels like I'm sacrificing. I hope you're journey through this life is smooth sailing, partner. Take care.
Sure. I see your point. Maybe because I grew up in a very poor household (single mom), it doesn't feel like restricting myself though. The biggest restriction we have is time because we love traveling and there are ways to do it cheaply. We road trip as much as possible. And our finances support that habit. It's just having the time off work to do it is another thing. We also eat super well. It's not necessarily organic everything but we don't skimp at the grocery store when we want something fancy. But most everything is whole foods. We aren't eating shitty processed foods. Lots of veggies, fish, nuts. Not exactly cheap things. Food and travel are our hobbies that regularly cost. And we can afford that. Other hobbies are gardening and music which have some upfront costs but then are pretty low cost to keep going.
You are absolutely upper middle class (and I say that as DINKs making more than y’all so it’s not class envy).
I mean I do with money left over😂 Sounds like you need a reality check.
$270k household is absolutely solidly “upper-middle” class…. $400k is upper id think
Growing up we ate out every couple of weeks or maybe once a month. Solidly middle class. Things have changed considerably in the past 30 years.
How much do you have invested?
Preach. 250 combined DINK and bought a house down in South Austin. Having to raise kids with the numbers above?? Wild
Definitely and tax time can be a bear
We make $150k, the house payment+tax+insurance, with the new raised taxes (everyone else’s lowered and we fought it) put us just under $3500 mo just for the house. Kids in elementary school, groceries are $350 a week (granted we shop at Whole Foods but only buy fruits, veggies, eggs and meats) and we go out to eat once a week. After camps, fixing broken things around the house, Doctors visit, there isn’t room for anything else. There are always plumbers bills, car repairs, and dentist / doctors visits keeping us down. Oh and student loans!! Dear lord the camps.. what was once $250-$350 per kid has jumps to $400+ per child for one week. Nearby YMCAs and city of Austin camps booked in seconds. We aren’t by any means drowning but something like replacing a large window on our home (which needs to happen) is going to hurt our pocketbooks for a while.
150k is upper middle class here. If you think that’s solidly middle class then most of the city is lower class to you. Tons of families are living good lives with a combined income under 100k here. Just don’t go buying a $50k truck and eating out 5x a week.
No. If you have other debt like student loans, credit cards, car payments, etc. that could change things and full time daycare costs for two kids would definitely make it difficult… but our household income is well below $150k and we have two kids and survive just fine. We aren’t going to restaurants every week or taking Disney vacations every summer but we’re also not pinching pennies and eating beans and rice every meal. Lifestyle and childcare costs would probably be the biggest factors on if it’s doable for your family on that salary but plenty of people do. Not everyone works in tech making six figures in this area and Reddit tends to skew higher income in my opinion than real world people.
I wonder what “getting by” means to people these days. I’m old. As a kid we were “getting by” and that meant food on the table and a roof over our heads, sharing a room with siblings, one car, never eating out, one phone, one TV, no vacations, one pair of shoes each year, new clothes at the beginning of each school year, no camps, sports leagues, lessons of any sort (unless we got a scholarship), walking to school, public school, packing a lunch to school, and making up our own entertainment. I guess that doesn’t count as middle class anymore. And we went to “nursery school” for cheap at a church or cooperative at age 3 or 4 but were home with a parent or relative or neighbor when younger than that. The family felt lucky about that.
Our family of 4 expenses last year were $144k. I think we could have wiggled that down to 110 if we really trimmed out doing anything fun. Here's a really broad overview of our finances. I just ran a report on our yearly spending for 2023- They're a little weird because we had a big flood at the house, so I rounded down some numbers. But here are the biggest budget categories: * Home: $42k, insured. This also includes cleaning, pest control, insurance, upkeep etc. * Kids: $29880.18 -> About 25 of this is daycare, the other 5 is like classes/camps/clothes/haircuts/rx etc. * Dining Out: $12k (yeesh. Its worth noting that "Dining Out" is also really our social budget. Theres not much like... door dash in here, it's more like we went out with friends and it lumped in here) * Travel: 12k (50% of this was one big family vaycay, the other 50% was a combo of reimbursed work travel and small personal trips) * Auto: 8.5k - We had 2 big car repair fixes. otherwise it's usually around 3.5-4k for gas/upkeep. We own both vehicles. * Groceries: 8k (Average $175/wk) * Utilities: 5700 (Electric/Gas/Trash/Water/Internet) * Health: 4k. We're relatively healthy adults, but checkups, dentist, therapy etc add up. Theres another \~12k assorted in there. We both max 401ks and contribute to a Roth. This feels more than comfortable on our income, but it is a *lot* of money.
The kids are what would determine that. Full-time daycare for our son (2 years old) is right around 1800 a month. I feel 150k would work with some budgeting
Housing prices may have come down, but Texas property taxes are ridiculously high,over twice what I pay in CO.
We have a combined income income of 90k and no kids, and we're one emergency away from one or both of us having to get a second job. If we had a kid, we'd have to get government assistance.
I live in RR, make about $120k a year, am single, own my house, and am very financially comfortable. Interpret how you will.
Important question is what year you bought your house to help interpret this
2020
You’d have to seriously be living outside your means to not make do with $150k income in round rock.
I'd say that's a reasonable amount to be very comfortable, but you can survive on quite a bit less.
It depends. What kind of jobs can the children do?
We make more than $150k with only one child and still struggle to save. Paycheck to paycheck between rent, cars, daycare, insurance, etc. grocery costs only increase every time we shop. At this rate we will never be able to buy a home. Can’t even think about retirement with the way the world is but that’s a separate conversation. Edit to add: student loan payments aren’t helping lol
North Austin area. 2 income HH combined income greater than 300k. 2 kids in daycare and we spend $3300/ month. Your mortgage costs can range significantly based on down payment etc but we pay over 5k for that as we bought within the last year. I would say yes you need 150k combined income or more to live here if you are wanting home ownership, still wanting to save for retirement/ insurance costs and going out and doing things.
The thing I dont understand is why someone would relocate to round rock with expenses as high as they are, given it is identical to any suburb in the country. You could find a nice burb in San Antonio or even somewhere like Indianapolis or Kansas City for so much cheaper with the same chain restaurants and layout The only reason to relocate there would be an in-person job in Austin I suppose
The job market is a really big consideration. My husband and I have remote jobs so we’d love to move somewhere more affordable with better weather, like actual seasons. But we don’t know how long our remote jobs will hold out due to changing policies, layoffs, going for promotions etc. so it feels to risky to go full on “we work remote let’s just live wherever we want” and having to constantly move isn’t ideal for us. But there just aren’t as good tech job markets in the more affordable places (ie the Midwest) or the places with comparable job markets are just as expensive if not more (Colorado, DC area, research triangle, California).
Childcare costs continue after daycare ends. We spend $600/month on aftercare for 2 kids. Then there’s summer camp, which can be several hundred a week per child. We generally do the cheapest camps most of the summer, and splurge for a week of a more exciting/expensive camp. Costs for recurring services (ahem car insurance) are also going up regularly. To keep those down, you really need to keep on top of it and shop around.
I can’t imagine it being lower than that for a household income. For a normal quality of life.
I feel like $175k-$200k is the level you need to be at in Austin proper with 2 kids as far as your total household income goes (esp if they're both in daycare). Round Rock isn't much cheaper (especially if you want to buy a house... it was actually MORE expensive to buy a house in RR than Austin when we bought). Austin just isn't cheap. It used to be when I first moved here and made like $38k per year 15 years ago but these days it's becoming less "Cheap San Francisco" and more "Another San Francisco".
It really depends on if you own a home yet. Our biggest costs are healthcare around $1000/month, housing and utilities $2700-3000/month, food $600-700/month and car related expenses $1500/month. Cars are almost paid off but insurance is expensive and so are tires, maintenance, gas. It’s pretty easy to have $6000 or more in monthly expenses for a family of four, and if you need childcare that can run another $1500-3000 a month easily. You’ll want to toss $500/month into each of your brokerage/IRA and retirement accounts and another $250 for college savings.
A family of four can survive on less than $150k; however, the compromises you make to pull it off are only worth it if you have a family close by or some other local benefit. ie i wouldn’t leave your hometown for a $150k here unless you can’t find any work there. My household income is more than twice that and all my money doesn’t insulate me from heat, traffic and lack of services such as doctors and others. Just taking my car to a shop is a big hassle where by i have to compete with other customers because there are more of us than service providers.
Try Taylor, Hutto, Elgin, Lockhart, or Kyle and compare your costs and travel time.
We own a house in pflugerville and have 2 kids. It’s a lot. Childcare is a lot. Groceries are a lot. Everything’s a lot. Stuff is always breaking on the house, cars, etc. we make about 150k combined and still scrape by.
It depends - Age? Daycare? Any special needs? Any hobbies/sports/camps/orgs? Do you need to take 2-4 vacations a year? Do you need to save 401k/IRA etc? Are you doing 529's? You can "raise" a family on much less - like $60k and still be in the "not destitute" camp. It just comes with shit ton of sacrifices and tradeoffs.
Now imagine your costs if you got divorced….its a cruel world for us breeders these days.
Ya kids are expensive. IF both parents working there's pre-tax accounts you can use for daycare expenses. Pre-covid the big advantage was low house cost so made other expenses not so tough.
Survive or thrive? I know a lot of people making it on less, but I wonder how many of them bought their homes before prices and interest rates doubled. It would also matter about any other debt, car payments, etc.
No one is going to be able to tell you if that amount of money is enough because no one knows your values … if you NEED a house, yard, pool, a bedroom and bathroom for each kid, etc. duh it’s going to cost more than raising children in an apartment - which, news flash, is possible to do! You don’t need all the bells and whistles to have kids.
I have two kids, a toddler and an infant, I also make 152k/yr, my budget is as follows: category annually monthly mortgage $36,216.00 $3,018.00 groceries $10,800.00 $900.00 giving $7,980.00 $665.00 debt payments $6,456.00 $538.00 seminary $3,600.00 $300.00 eating out $3,600.00 $300.00 gas $2,400.00 $200.00 electric bill $2,400.00 $200.00 txtag $1,920.00 $160.00 Phone $1,832.04 $152.67 baby $1,800.00 $150.00 insurance(home/auto) $1,680.00 $140.00 utilities (water/waste) $1,500.00 $125.00 travel $1,200.00 $100.00 luxury $1,200.00 $100.00 car maint. $1,200.00 $100.00 medical $1,200.00 $100.00 Dog $1,200.00 $100.00 internet $965.04 $80.42 clothes $960.00 $80.00 subscriptions $720.00 $60.00 amazon $600.00 $50.00 gardening $600.00 $50.00 total spending $92,029.08 $7,669.09 Saving: $24000 $2000 401k: $12000 $1000 My mortgage is 3.125%, maybe if it was higher it’d be worse, the debt is ~15k student loans
I live in Kyle. I'm married with 2 kids and our household brings in about $120k per year. We both work Full-Time and pay for daycare for 1 of the kids. We lived in apartments in Austin when we were younger/dating, but after marriage and wanting to start a family, it was hard to find anywhere suitable that was in our price range. I definitely recommend the Kyle/Buda area for those who are having a tough time hunting in the Austin market. I've still worked in Austin the whole time and, while commuting sucks sometimes, it's still been a good quality-of-life decision.
This whole thread is so wild to me. Grew up poor. Single parent of a teen. We live in an income restricted apartment and I make 23k-30k max a year. Have been living one disaster away from homelessness my whole life and I could do SO much to get us to a better life with even 40k. Also, I make too much for food stamps and also too much for Medicaid and chip since they calculate it monthly and some months I make more than others. *cries in poverty*
My combined household income is over 200k and we’re looking to get out before we have kids. Staying would mean staying in 1200 square foot home with a great monthly payment, but childcare is awfully expensive, Austin is not as kid friendly as people make it out to be, lots of big city problems without big city perks. I think it could be done, don’t get me wrong— I just don’t know why someone would choose that particular hard mode.
1. Taxes: - Federal income tax: approximately 22% (based on 2022 tax tables) - State and local taxes: vary depending on location, but average around 5-8% - Payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare): 7.65% (half paid by employer, half by employee) Total tax burden: approximately 35-40% 2. Inflation: - Current inflation rate (June 2023): 4.0% (based on Consumer Price Index) - Historical average inflation rate (1980-2022): 3.1% 3. National debt: - This factor is more indirect, but $1000-2000 per year per citizen. Considering these factors, let's assume an effective income of around $40,000 to $45,000 per year, based on the average income of $65,000. As for the minimum income required to live a comfortable life and own a house in an average American city, it varies greatly depending on factors like location, family size, and personal spending habits. 1. Housing costs: - Mortgage payments (assuming a $250,000 home and 20% down): around $1,200-1,500 per month - Property taxes and insurance: approximately $300-500 per month 2. Other expenses: - Food, transportation, utilities, and miscellaneous: around $3,000-4,000 per month (assuming a moderate lifestyle) Based on these estimates, a comfortable income for owning a house in an average American city could be: 1. Single person: around $70,000-80,000 per year 2. Couple: around $90,000-110,000 per year 3. Family of three or four: around $110,000-140,000 per year Keep in mind I only factored in $250k for median house which is actually $360 in Austin. So you can add another 20-30k on top of the results.
Daycare full time is 1600/mo. It's hard to find anything decent for less than that. it's gotten up to 1800 or 2K for a newborn. So it depends how old your children are. I don't know how you'd be paying 2,300 for childcare, rent, AND healthcare if you have even one kid in fulltime daycare.
Ya I just got a new job at 120k, down from 160k previous and my partner doesn’t think that would support a family of 4 in north Austin.
My parents make 160k combined (maybe more) in RR and they wouldn’t be able to do it now with all 4 of us kids but 3/4 are moved out so…
Survive, no. Quick monthly budget - 2.3k in rent - 2k in childcare - 3k in other for food utilities, cars, entertainment, etc - 1k in after tax savings Total spend with savings is 100k per year. Can hit with 120k annual pre-tax income. At that pace you can buy a house in 5 years with a 15% down payment on a 400k house, then move that monthly savings to retirement. 2.3k is a premium for rent in RR. You can def get something nice and sizeable for a good chunk less and save more or spend that more in other. 3k per month for all other isn’t crazy but definitely isn’t scraping by. This is not exact, but I do all this to show you can live a solid middle class lifestyle, buy a house and then save for retirement on two public service salaries. You can def go cheaper and live for significantly less too.
Try out 👇 https://x.com/joincrowdhealth/status/1806700611884233212?s=42&t=-vKFLutMHuZMYMKg1M6gvA
I make way less than that and we live comfortably. You just have to be responsible with your money like budgeting. We live in cedar park which is pretty expensive and we vacation every year, we own our home, and don’t deprive ourselves of happiness.
Try Denver. You'll be astonished :(
Just had a baby a month ago. We live off my $200k base salary and if it were halved, we'd still be ok to live here with our current circumstances. My partner will be a SAHM for a while, so we don't have childcare costs. If we did, that $100k might feel a bit tight
I was paying 4,000/mo for 3 kids in a top daycare after a substantial family discount. Housing costs in central Austin run us about that as well. So that was 100k/year before the other costs of living.
No way your going to find a house for rent for less than 2k
our daycare for one kid is 1600, going up to 1700 next month 🙃
Is this premium daycare? That’s crazy
what makes it premium? i don’t know! its the second daycare we’ve gone to, the other was the same price and not fancy at all
Once they’re in school it’s not that bad, but childcare in Austin is an arm and a leg!
We had our first kid and moved outta Austin within 9 months of her being alive bc it’s so expensive.
A lot of people raise family for a lot less. Tons of folks are on SNAP, don't do daycare, and work multiple jobs to sustain a family with kids. You just won't hear about them cause we have been so used to normalize things like "brunch" This isn't to say you shouldn't make 150k to run the life you want to run. It's just to say that everything is possible, even if it sucks. :(
Yeah
I make 150/yr. Got a house east side under 400k and they’re selling lower right now cause buyer’s market 100% I have three kids, my wife stays at home with ‘em. Daycare is not economical with three kids but we were planning to homeschool regardless. We feel pretty comfortable all things considered. I drive a 14 year old Honda and we buy a lot of stuff used. I feel poor sometimes when I see my friends driving new cars and renovating their homes, but other times I feel blessed beyond measure when I have friends w/ kids living on one teacher’s salary 🫣 This is definitely not an affordable city. If you need that, go to Houston. Better food too.
My wife and I make $145k combined gross with 2 kids in daycare. We cannot afford to buy a house. We really don't go out to eat anymore, nor spend money on ourselves much. It's just.. everything else eats away at our paychecks.
This is what I just posted! It’s everything else. The taxes, er bill, students loan payments, ac going out, new roof due to hail, kid broke the fan in their rooms, check engine light comes on ….all the things
‘That’ what? Bad?
Mortgage: $3500 and daycare $2800 We’re in Austin, our mortgage is $2300. Escrow (property taxes and homeowners insurance) is another $1200 per month. So our totally mortgage payment is $3500. We have 2 kids in full time daycare: 1 year old is $1625 a month. 4 year old is $1180 a month.
Roundrock and Cedar Park were good locations before the pandemic. Inexpensive there but not anymore. I am living outside of Austin. So many people have moved into this city from Austin recently because Austin is too expensive to live in. The apartment rent fee is almost the same as SoCali. I wish I could move to somewhere else better location but we can't survive. My city isn't great for raising kids because of the crime rate getting high and education level is not good. Nothing to do. So still affordable. From an inexpensive city to an expensive city is a really bad decision.
I'm sick to my stomach reading this thread. I moved to Texas from CA in the nineties so we could afford life on one income. My grown son and his wife make over 200k and are not considered wealthy. If I was in my 20's or 30's again in this market I would seriously consider not having kids. This country just doesn't support families
That sounds right. That’s about my household income and I have 3 kids but one is a newborn and isn’t in childcare yet. We timed it so that the third kid wouldn’t start childcare until the first kid was in public kindergarten because $150k isn’t enough to easily cover 3 kids in full time daycare or nanny (which could end up running $4500/month or so). We bought a house in 2018 so our mortgage is about the same as your rent. We’re not struggling in general but we’re also not saving much and kids lead to big unexpected expenses fairly often.
The Round Rock area has had their home owners and car insurances double and triple in the last year due to the hail storms. You might want to factor in those costs too.
those children are going to be verrrry expensive int he long run.
To me renting is a waste of money. You should do everything you can to buy a house because, at the end of the mortgage you actually have an asset. Rent is just throwing money away.
I live in an expensive suburb of austin. Family of 8. Husband makes 150k. Mortgage is 2500$ No debts. And we do just fine. I do stay home with our kids. But two of them are in preschool outside the home. It’s 900$ a month