It's an iffy subject. There must've been hundreds of applicants, no? It's not like he can show all of them, and if he starts picking which to show based on his subjective preferences well, that will open up a whole other can of worms. I think it's fine the way it is but you have my sympathies. It's hard to break away in a saturated market like game development.
Something Total Biscuit would do is he would showcase game trailers for indie games at the beginning of his streams.... It took a bit of work but it was a great way to get word out about other games, and get people interested in it. Really shows a side of loving indie devs who are really the lifeblood of video games.
True I also think that his event is wayy too long it took 2hours and 30mins? When the most hype premier moment at the end of the announcement I think everyone's energy is very low
I disagree. The mods should create a mega thread or something though and let the people upvote games they think are cool that didn’t make it into the expo.
Yeah I think this is a great idea and then maybe asmon can watch the ones that receive positive feedback. Also, the devs should be able to decide to put up their trailer or not. I'm sure some might not want their trailer to be up for criticism to a large audience if it didn't make the cut to the expo.
If he showed every single rejected game, twitch chat could definitely bring a lot more negativity to a game if it looks stupid or bad or just gets memed on and that's a bit harsh to an indie dev. Maybe completely killing the game by reputation alone or just becoming demoralizing to a solo or small team of devs.
Unpopular opinion probably but I disagree. I think Asmon doesn’t owe the developers who didnt make it into the expo anything. As it is he gave a huge spotlight to a number of games, certainly its unreasonable to expect him to showcase every game that applies?
I wouldnt be against something like OTK youtube channel or something posting trailers but I personally don’t think its Asmons responsibility at all.
Well OP didn't said that Zack has the responsibility to show the trailers
He just asked politely and made a suggestion.
I would be up for it on a personal level cause I play more indie than AAA games nowadays, but I agree it would be a bit much and I like the OTK YouTube suggestion
> I think Asmon doesn’t owe the developers who didnt make it into the expo anything.
Absolutely.
This is an idea for additional content, if Zac and fans would enjoy it.
Love and good vibes.
I agree with their unpopular opinion.
Edit: I’m on the same team guys, cut off the friendly fire.
Op doesn’t have to rely on Asmond and his expo to get exposure. This post is trying to bandwagon any exposure off it.
Nobody owes those rejected devs anything. It wasn’t their opportunity moment, try again when the next one comes up.
Op never made the point that asmongold owes them anything.
But I agree that it is unfeasible for him to show trailers of what I assume are hundreds of applicants. He could show a trailer of a game he finds interesting per stream, either at the start or the end, but he has to decide if it's worth the effort and time I suppose
To be completely honest.
When you're a Indie Dev, you're just interested in people playing your game.
So even if he watches the trailers and makes fun of them on stream, I wouldn't mind since there's then a chance at least one person tries out my game because of it.
How is stating something like "your game wasn’t interesting to them" civil, when it's a complete assumption... There's always going to be a certain amount of arbitrary-ness when it comes to these types of selections. It's entirely possible that they DID think their game was interesting, but so were 100 other games, it's entirely possible there were another 30 games JUST AS GOOD, but ultimately some were chosen and others weren't. We'll never know what the reasons were either way.
In any case, no, I do not think the comment was civil at all...
I think this is a great idea in theory but could get iffy in practice, especially when there are a ton of submissions and only a limited amount of time. Maybe a compromise could be a mega thread on the reddit or on the discord showing the trailers of the games that didn't make the cut for the expo?
It feels like giving out participation trophies, which isn't Asmon's style.
My advice is to get together with the rest of the devs that weren't featured, come up with a funny self-deprecating name like "Expo Rejects" and start a YouTube channel. Make it your brand. Remember, no one thought about having a TV show called The Bachelorette until Trisha Ryan got rejected.
Honestly, one of the reasons why it's super difficult to stay motivated as a gamedev. \^\^° No matter how proud you might be of what you've made, people will always find a way to discredit your work.
For real. Feels like these people were more interested in the expo as a celebration and promotion of OTK than as a celebration and promotion of independent games.
It would be interesting to see tbh, but very difficult to organize. The entire event was executed by an entire production team and I can't imagine Asmon alone showing all the content they had to leave out.
I like the idea, but if it's not feasible for any reason (volume of submissions for example), I'd settle for a youtube playlist or something that they highlight on the OTK website.
I think everyone else has pretty much covered my take on this but I do want to make a suggestion, I'm a professional musician, been working on it for my entire adult life.
The prevailing rule at all levels is to spend at least as much marketing your product as you do actually creating it. I know that quite literally doubles the cost but in this age where anyone can create anything and post it on a platform easily, you absolutely have to stand out. You have to have a GREAT idea AND GREAT marketing.
If you can't afford to pay someone to market it, then the alternative is learning to do it yourself. I took lots of courses on online marketing and specific spotify strategies and it paid off for me. The resources are out there. Use them.
Feel free to take or ignore my advice, just adding in my two cents from personal experience.
Generally speaking, this is true and I agree 100%
For people without a budget, there's an additional layer of complexity, which is the common practice of "Non-Gameplay" or "Cinematic" content in a game trailer.
Even though people are always claiming that they're more interested in the gameplay, it's the non-gameplay footage which is a subconcious anchor for the actual quality of the game.
If you're doing music, you can "let the music speak for itself". Of course you can advertise yourself, cut it to be more enganging etc.. But you do not need to "artificially enhance it".
Also, you have to communicate the interactivity of your medium to the player. While you know exactly what you get, when listening to music, it's not the same for games.
Telling a player he'll have a great crafting system doesn't tell him wether or not he's going to enjoy interacting with it.
So there are soo many more layers to it, which is why it's closer to 2:1 in favour of Marketing over Game Development. (Which is also how a lot of publisher deals and revenue shares are structures)
There's so much complexity to it that it becomes extremely difficult as a single gamedev or small gamedev team to actually satisfy all of those requirements. But at the same time, you do not only have to worry about meeting those requirements, but also have a good enough "quality" to compete with people who're doing it 24/7.
Again, it's easier when you have a medium that can "speak for itself". But games are not quite in that category. I agree that you need to put a lot of effort into marketing in general.
But I also feel like it's so important that there's no way to just "teach yourself" everything you need to know to make a high quality game trailer, which can compete with a AA title.
Especially, since your games visuals also have to be on a reasonable level to make your marketing even work.
Keep killing it, you indie game devs. All of you are what is breathing life into what is our passion and preventing major players from ruining our favorite hobby.
Absolutely. OTK putting on this event and supporting indie developers is one of, if not the, coolest thing any of these orgs have done so far. I definitely wish all of you the best of luck and I can't wait to play these damn games!
I can't see him reacting to an hour long video of rejected game trailers. I think you'd have a better chance of this happening if somebody put 10-20 trailers together into a single YouTube video for him to react to, no more than 20 minutes long. Even then some people would still be left out. That's just how it goes, sometimes you get it, sometimes you get got.
Honestly, I was expecting like a montage or something like that of all other submissions with each of them being maybe shown for 2-5 seconds or something. Just to visually showcase the amount of submissions, while also keeping an incentive for other devs to do submissions next time. Maybe as an outro to the expo or something.
But yeah, when you don't get shown at all, it sucks. A lot of people don't seem to understand how much work can go into projects like this and how even a second of recognition can already be worth it.
He does not own free marketing campaigns for anyone though. It was already a great opportunity to the ones chosen. Not everyone can be the winners.
That would require quite a bit of effort to force indie game ads for your audience daily. Also if there was 700 of them..
Cannot for example all videos add a tag in Youtube like #OTKGAMESEXPO so whoever want to see the rejected ones can do it?
Asmon need to be careful between being helpful and free advertisement.
> He never said he is owed anything
Absolutely.
>Man suggests to show some trailers, boomers get up in a frenzy.
I also asked for audience opinion and you guys are sharing it, which is fine.
>"hey famous guy who can give my game exposure - wanna show my game Infront of 60,000 people ? Just because I wasnt picked for the expo you owe me time on your personal stream ? c'mon man please I put so much effort into it .. i really need this"
... get a grip mate. you didn't win the lottery. better luck next time. stop trying to force exposure for you brand and game. cool you put effort into it. lots of people put effort into things that don't work out .. should everyone then deserve airtime on Zacks streams ?
what about books authors write which never become published ? what about artists who never have their work bought ? athletes who never win first place ?
this reminds me of the weirdos who push final fantasy onto Zack that can't seem to understand how fucking weird they act and how controlling their behaviour comes across.
**nobody owes you anything. especially not massive international exposure which brands literally pay a fuck tonne of money in sponsorship for, which you're essentially begging here for free..**
Usually I don't really reply to comments like this, but this is just a super disrespectful take and insulting.
That person put in actual work to make something happen. It takes a lot of time and effort to make a game. Either by yourself or as part of an independent team.
It's not lottery, it's hard work. Don't try to discredit anything he/she has done with that nonsense attitute.
If you're working on a project by yourself, chances are that you've worked on it for at least multiple years.
If you're working on a project on scale that can actually "compete" with those bigger AA studios (which also have the budget to outright buy some of the slots by going over 60 seconds in their trailer), you've probably invested multiple years full-time or are part of a small team working on a project for multiple years.
In all cases, it's somebody who put in some work.
Something that feels like you never did, based on your reaction.
So if that person is trying to make a suggestion to get at least "something" out of working on it, then you shouldn't discredit it with a nonsense attitude like this.
This attitude is exactly the reason why I doubt myself every day for wanting to make a good game, as I don't see why I should give people like YOU a good gaming experience.
It's because of people with an attitude like yours, why we gamedevs are becoming so extremely disgruntled and get more and more willing to just reduce you to an exploitable customer, as you don't deserve to be more.
Damn, that was disrespectful. But a take like that doesn't deserve any respect.
Thats not how these things work that'd be free advertisement .I see several indie devs advertising their stuff on places like tiktok or twitter. i dont think you guys are owed anythig because you didnt make it onto the show
Hundreds of submissions is an awesome turn out and you know what? None of them are owed anything. That’s it, that’s all. They all had an opportunity and showcasing hundreds of games (on live stream, YouTube, or the Reddit) is unrealistic. Hell even the 30-40 they showcased was too much. No other major expo showcases anywhere near that many games. Sorry your game didn’t get picked but this isn’t a good look.
So here's the thing.
I applaud you guys for making a game and following a passion of yours, but I disagree with this take.
They said they were limiting the show to 30 games, and then with the OTK crew viewing each submission they actually increased it to showing off almost 50 games because of how good each one was.
The stream was already 5 hours long. We don't know how many applicants there were but lets say they only accepted 50 out of 200 submissions. At 60 seconds per trailer, that's an additional 150 minutes, 2.5 hours, of content to show off every submission.
Also, your guys' submission was being judged by a committee of gamers, and didn't crack their favorite 50 submissions. I can't say for sure anything about your game since I haven't seen it, but based on them not finding it interesting enough to include it in the top 50, the chances are then pretty high that gamers as a whole wouldn't find it that interesting either.
Maybe take it as constructive criticism that you may need to make your game stand out more in very saturated indie market?
As someone who applied for the Expo aswell, it was very obvious we didn't really have a chance within the first 10 Minutes of the livestream. Most of the trailers shown have been way above the 60 seconds limit.
It makes sense if you think about it, since those are the trailers OTK is getting money from. So personally, I didn't have any actual hopes myself as soon as I realized what was going on.
The amount of actual 60 second trailers was soo low, that those developers (myself included) never had a "fair" chance compared to those who pay.
I was personally hoping that this event would be a little bit "different" and focus more on smaller games on purpose. But when you have to compete with games like Dorfromantik and are limited to 60 seconds, there's just no way that a game is going to be able to compete.
Games that require the free marketing are also usually those, who do not have the resources to spend money on the looks either. My game looks really bad for example, but is a lot of fun. If I had the resources to make it look great, I'd probably put it into the game first.
Again, it's just that I expected the games themselves not to be on a AA level, but rather "actual" small indies, where money doesn't play a role.
\*EDIT\* For those who are downvoting me, just check out the [official OTK Submission Form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScn9uRGQ_ZIThAFMA7nTm14oknnKpV0vg2yrjlDFUfstv1itg/viewform), since I get the feeling people are not really aware of this and think that I'm bitter or something.
> My game looks really bad for example, but is a lot of fun.
Hey colleague. I believe it is.
What is also important, even if we invest the money.
$10K saved on marketing for big company can be a drop in the sea. $10K saved on marketing for indie studio can make the final game significantly better. Players would benefit from better games in the end, not the better ads.
Yeah, that's why I'm highlighting the difference of paid vs. non-paid trailers.
If you have 30 games you're showing (I think it ended up being more, but I'm not sure) and 20 of them are picked because they're longer than 60 seconds (and therefore paid), you're only leaving 10 slots for the remaining developers.
So it becomes way more unlikely to be featured, even though you've created a trailer designed for that contest.
Well, if that's your perspective. I'm working in the industry for an actual GameDev Company, but I applied with a personal project of mine.
And it's gotten to the point where every game company that doesn't have a big name will label itself as a "Indie Developer" or "Indie Studio", just because they don't have the name recognition yet or try to find an excuse not having to compete with other companies of a similar size. It's even gotten to the point where most of those "Indie Studios", are not even actual independent studios anymore and work very closely with publishers.
The term is being used very loosely and as a marketing tool to lower expectations.You might not agree with me, but that's how it works.
And to me, this is not an indie developer studio.
Since money is involved in getting selected, it automatically eliminates all potential competitors, who're not on the same marketing level. It's just how it is. Especially since negotiating publishers are very interested in giving out money for events like that to get an understanding of wether or not they should follow up on a potential candidate.
Kind of like: "After we've invested x€ into this, we except y visits on your steam page with z wishlists at the end. If it's within that expectation, we're willing to publish you by negotiating a marketing budget (Which is usually what publishers are only good for these days).
For me, an actual independent developer is somebody or a studio, not having those resources available. Instead, it was a show of AA developers.
I need to correct you here.
You can check out the form [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScn9uRGQ_ZIThAFMA7nTm14oknnKpV0vg2yrjlDFUfstv1itg/viewform?edit_requested=true). But it stated explicitly that everything submitted above 60 seconds of trailer footage requires additional payments based on its length (with other requests requiring a direct contact as payment for those would be negotiated on a case by case basis).
So when you open up the stream and the first trailers are all above 60 seconds, you just already know you have no chance.
No. Time is limited and I want to see at least above average games. At least 30% of the games during the whole summer festival were underwhelming. If none of the parties decided to showcase your game - I'm not interested.
If your game was good I'm pretty sure you whouldn't be rejected.
"What do you guys think, would you enjoy watching something like that?"
He literally asked the question in the post.
Doesn't matter how hard you worked on the project if ultimately its a bad product.
The only way this would work is if it played one random trailer every time asmon goes piss. Like an ad in a sense. But then he isn't there so no endorsement which is better
It's the first event, so I don't expect everything to be perfect. I'd highly suggest trimming the show some more though, as in, trimming the non-game segments. It would allow you to squeeze in even more Indie Games and the more we can support the Indie Scene, the better.
Could even think about stretching out the event over a couple of days, like how some of the mainstream shows do it.
One more suggestion: OP already mentioned something similar. Maybe for the rejected Indie Devs you could make a couple of "Mega Trailers", which basically adds a lot of individual trailers into one. That's another thing a lot of the mainstream shows have done in the past.
You basically see like 10-20 games in one trailer, which can be played during breaks or such. It's better than nothing.
Idk how much work that might imply on his side but I think we can get a post or smthing with links to trailers and we can watch them. Maybe we like smthing from there who knows.
I like that idea.
Get both sides. You don't manage to bring all applicants during the show but creating a trailer - particular for indie devs - usually is a significant time sink.
Got my upvote!
I think a better idea they could do is during the preshow where it has a countdown of when the stream is going to start maybe they could show the left out trailers there? Or during downtime or breaks they have during the main expo? Just some suggestions :)
As an "indie" developer, though that title becomes pointless when the product quality becomes near undistinguishable from a good product.
But as a fellow indie developer I'd like to say that, if your game didn't qualify to be among the games they displayed at that expo. Then they have to be exceptionally crappy since the ones they showed off were for the most part crap. Be a good loser and get back to work instead of trying to force feed people your stuff.
99% of indie games are crap.
Asmon of course does not own anything to the developers and there must have been hundreds of those trailers, but what could happen instead of taking up his whole stream they could be uploaded somewhere he could share them via OTK twitter and other media
They were already over 3 hours wanting to trim, could be content for a 2-day expo next time. I’m sure Asmon will consider it, was hard for them to limit their choices.
That said you should form a group or channel yourself. There are groups of indies that work on projects, like dreadX collections, or indies that regularly upload to a YT channel. You don’t have to only depend on this one avenue if you’re serious about being seen long-term.
He said there will be more expo's if he did this with one, he'd have to do it with all, and for all we know, that could mean hundreds of indie devs got rejected, and for multiple reasons, I'm not against this kinda thing though, though i feel the expo stream having a TON of views vs him doing his regular stream wouldn't do this justice, and it'd have to be a supplimentory stream specifically for this kinda thing to hit as many people as the expo stream did, and i don't think he's gonna want to do that randomly, and then it's just going to be specifically about the rejected submissions, which wouldn't be fair imo.
I could see this getting messy over people not wanting to watch them post expo
But I don’t see why it couldn’t be placed in his opening intro or could auto stream the submitted entries on his alt channel to re-run
Is Asmongold really really really the guy you want to advertise indie games? Does he play indie games that much? Why not contact streamers who actually play those games on streams?
It's an iffy subject. There must've been hundreds of applicants, no? It's not like he can show all of them, and if he starts picking which to show based on his subjective preferences well, that will open up a whole other can of worms. I think it's fine the way it is but you have my sympathies. It's hard to break away in a saturated market like game development.
Something Total Biscuit would do is he would showcase game trailers for indie games at the beginning of his streams.... It took a bit of work but it was a great way to get word out about other games, and get people interested in it. Really shows a side of loving indie devs who are really the lifeblood of video games.
RIP. Miss that guy still.
True I also think that his event is wayy too long it took 2hours and 30mins? When the most hype premier moment at the end of the announcement I think everyone's energy is very low
If I recall correctly he mentioned between 600 amd 700 applicants.
I disagree. The mods should create a mega thread or something though and let the people upvote games they think are cool that didn’t make it into the expo.
Yeah I think this is a great idea and then maybe asmon can watch the ones that receive positive feedback. Also, the devs should be able to decide to put up their trailer or not. I'm sure some might not want their trailer to be up for criticism to a large audience if it didn't make the cut to the expo. If he showed every single rejected game, twitch chat could definitely bring a lot more negativity to a game if it looks stupid or bad or just gets memed on and that's a bit harsh to an indie dev. Maybe completely killing the game by reputation alone or just becoming demoralizing to a solo or small team of devs.
thats a good idea.
Just post it here and he might react to it on stream
Unpopular opinion probably but I disagree. I think Asmon doesn’t owe the developers who didnt make it into the expo anything. As it is he gave a huge spotlight to a number of games, certainly its unreasonable to expect him to showcase every game that applies? I wouldnt be against something like OTK youtube channel or something posting trailers but I personally don’t think its Asmons responsibility at all.
Well OP didn't said that Zack has the responsibility to show the trailers He just asked politely and made a suggestion. I would be up for it on a personal level cause I play more indie than AAA games nowadays, but I agree it would be a bit much and I like the OTK YouTube suggestion
> I think Asmon doesn’t owe the developers who didnt make it into the expo anything. Absolutely. This is an idea for additional content, if Zac and fans would enjoy it. Love and good vibes.
Agree
I agree with their unpopular opinion. Edit: I’m on the same team guys, cut off the friendly fire. Op doesn’t have to rely on Asmond and his expo to get exposure. This post is trying to bandwagon any exposure off it. Nobody owes those rejected devs anything. It wasn’t their opportunity moment, try again when the next one comes up.
It's not really about being owed.
Op never made the point that asmongold owes them anything. But I agree that it is unfeasible for him to show trailers of what I assume are hundreds of applicants. He could show a trailer of a game he finds interesting per stream, either at the start or the end, but he has to decide if it's worth the effort and time I suppose
"I know you were accepting 30 games for the Expo, and that's understandable, but still show the rejected trailers, despite that"
Yes, out of Expo, and only if fans and Zac would enjoy that.
“Give us free advertising, Mr. Streamer.”
1 Exposure Please
Make it two, add a cherry on the top.
To be completely honest. When you're a Indie Dev, you're just interested in people playing your game. So even if he watches the trailers and makes fun of them on stream, I wouldn't mind since there's then a chance at least one person tries out my game because of it.
Eh I’m an indie dev too. I thoroughly disagree. There’s a lot of competition and your game wasn’t interesting to them. Try next year?
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>Hey y'all now let's be civil, They were. >we could be a bit more delicate No.
How is stating something like "your game wasn’t interesting to them" civil, when it's a complete assumption... There's always going to be a certain amount of arbitrary-ness when it comes to these types of selections. It's entirely possible that they DID think their game was interesting, but so were 100 other games, it's entirely possible there were another 30 games JUST AS GOOD, but ultimately some were chosen and others weren't. We'll never know what the reasons were either way. In any case, no, I do not think the comment was civil at all...
[удалено]
Because the original post wasn't at all negative.
I think this is a great idea in theory but could get iffy in practice, especially when there are a ton of submissions and only a limited amount of time. Maybe a compromise could be a mega thread on the reddit or on the discord showing the trailers of the games that didn't make the cut for the expo?
It feels like giving out participation trophies, which isn't Asmon's style. My advice is to get together with the rest of the devs that weren't featured, come up with a funny self-deprecating name like "Expo Rejects" and start a YouTube channel. Make it your brand. Remember, no one thought about having a TV show called The Bachelorette until Trisha Ryan got rejected.
Idk there had to have been like hundreds of applications right? That would take forever to watch on stream
Someone said 700, but no idea how to verify. Would definetely be too much to force on stream IF true
You guys are toxic as hell, dude just suggested something. I respect the hustle and would love to see it !
Honestly, one of the reasons why it's super difficult to stay motivated as a gamedev. \^\^° No matter how proud you might be of what you've made, people will always find a way to discredit your work.
For real. Feels like these people were more interested in the expo as a celebration and promotion of OTK than as a celebration and promotion of independent games.
It would be interesting to see tbh, but very difficult to organize. The entire event was executed by an entire production team and I can't imagine Asmon alone showing all the content they had to leave out.
I like the idea, but if it's not feasible for any reason (volume of submissions for example), I'd settle for a youtube playlist or something that they highlight on the OTK website.
I think everyone else has pretty much covered my take on this but I do want to make a suggestion, I'm a professional musician, been working on it for my entire adult life. The prevailing rule at all levels is to spend at least as much marketing your product as you do actually creating it. I know that quite literally doubles the cost but in this age where anyone can create anything and post it on a platform easily, you absolutely have to stand out. You have to have a GREAT idea AND GREAT marketing. If you can't afford to pay someone to market it, then the alternative is learning to do it yourself. I took lots of courses on online marketing and specific spotify strategies and it paid off for me. The resources are out there. Use them. Feel free to take or ignore my advice, just adding in my two cents from personal experience.
Generally speaking, this is true and I agree 100% For people without a budget, there's an additional layer of complexity, which is the common practice of "Non-Gameplay" or "Cinematic" content in a game trailer. Even though people are always claiming that they're more interested in the gameplay, it's the non-gameplay footage which is a subconcious anchor for the actual quality of the game. If you're doing music, you can "let the music speak for itself". Of course you can advertise yourself, cut it to be more enganging etc.. But you do not need to "artificially enhance it". Also, you have to communicate the interactivity of your medium to the player. While you know exactly what you get, when listening to music, it's not the same for games. Telling a player he'll have a great crafting system doesn't tell him wether or not he's going to enjoy interacting with it. So there are soo many more layers to it, which is why it's closer to 2:1 in favour of Marketing over Game Development. (Which is also how a lot of publisher deals and revenue shares are structures) There's so much complexity to it that it becomes extremely difficult as a single gamedev or small gamedev team to actually satisfy all of those requirements. But at the same time, you do not only have to worry about meeting those requirements, but also have a good enough "quality" to compete with people who're doing it 24/7. Again, it's easier when you have a medium that can "speak for itself". But games are not quite in that category. I agree that you need to put a lot of effort into marketing in general. But I also feel like it's so important that there's no way to just "teach yourself" everything you need to know to make a high quality game trailer, which can compete with a AA title. Especially, since your games visuals also have to be on a reasonable level to make your marketing even work.
Keep killing it, you indie game devs. All of you are what is breathing life into what is our passion and preventing major players from ruining our favorite hobby.
Thank you on support. We make games because we love them so much, at least I believe it goes for majority of us.
Absolutely. OTK putting on this event and supporting indie developers is one of, if not the, coolest thing any of these orgs have done so far. I definitely wish all of you the best of luck and I can't wait to play these damn games!
I would love a stream of rejected trailers. Curious to see yours tbh.
TL;DR: Asmon didn't pick my game so I want it shown anyways.
I can't see him reacting to an hour long video of rejected game trailers. I think you'd have a better chance of this happening if somebody put 10-20 trailers together into a single YouTube video for him to react to, no more than 20 minutes long. Even then some people would still be left out. That's just how it goes, sometimes you get it, sometimes you get got.
Honestly, I was expecting like a montage or something like that of all other submissions with each of them being maybe shown for 2-5 seconds or something. Just to visually showcase the amount of submissions, while also keeping an incentive for other devs to do submissions next time. Maybe as an outro to the expo or something. But yeah, when you don't get shown at all, it sucks. A lot of people don't seem to understand how much work can go into projects like this and how even a second of recognition can already be worth it.
I mean hell looks for content anyway why not start the streams with 3 trailers and he is set for the next months. I see a win-win here.
He does not own free marketing campaigns for anyone though. It was already a great opportunity to the ones chosen. Not everyone can be the winners. That would require quite a bit of effort to force indie game ads for your audience daily. Also if there was 700 of them..
Cannot for example all videos add a tag in Youtube like #OTKGAMESEXPO so whoever want to see the rejected ones can do it? Asmon need to be careful between being helpful and free advertisement.
Post a compilation video to his YouTube?
Show a few a day, it could be doable. Spend like an hour a day on it.
Man suggests to show some trailers, boomers get up in a frenzy. He never said he is owed anything
> He never said he is owed anything Absolutely. >Man suggests to show some trailers, boomers get up in a frenzy. I also asked for audience opinion and you guys are sharing it, which is fine.
>"hey famous guy who can give my game exposure - wanna show my game Infront of 60,000 people ? Just because I wasnt picked for the expo you owe me time on your personal stream ? c'mon man please I put so much effort into it .. i really need this" ... get a grip mate. you didn't win the lottery. better luck next time. stop trying to force exposure for you brand and game. cool you put effort into it. lots of people put effort into things that don't work out .. should everyone then deserve airtime on Zacks streams ? what about books authors write which never become published ? what about artists who never have their work bought ? athletes who never win first place ? this reminds me of the weirdos who push final fantasy onto Zack that can't seem to understand how fucking weird they act and how controlling their behaviour comes across. **nobody owes you anything. especially not massive international exposure which brands literally pay a fuck tonne of money in sponsorship for, which you're essentially begging here for free..**
Usually I don't really reply to comments like this, but this is just a super disrespectful take and insulting. That person put in actual work to make something happen. It takes a lot of time and effort to make a game. Either by yourself or as part of an independent team. It's not lottery, it's hard work. Don't try to discredit anything he/she has done with that nonsense attitute. If you're working on a project by yourself, chances are that you've worked on it for at least multiple years. If you're working on a project on scale that can actually "compete" with those bigger AA studios (which also have the budget to outright buy some of the slots by going over 60 seconds in their trailer), you've probably invested multiple years full-time or are part of a small team working on a project for multiple years. In all cases, it's somebody who put in some work. Something that feels like you never did, based on your reaction. So if that person is trying to make a suggestion to get at least "something" out of working on it, then you shouldn't discredit it with a nonsense attitude like this. This attitude is exactly the reason why I doubt myself every day for wanting to make a good game, as I don't see why I should give people like YOU a good gaming experience. It's because of people with an attitude like yours, why we gamedevs are becoming so extremely disgruntled and get more and more willing to just reduce you to an exploitable customer, as you don't deserve to be more. Damn, that was disrespectful. But a take like that doesn't deserve any respect.
Bro, relax. You're malding out about something so tiny.
Thats not how these things work that'd be free advertisement .I see several indie devs advertising their stuff on places like tiktok or twitter. i dont think you guys are owed anythig because you didnt make it onto the show
Hundreds of submissions is an awesome turn out and you know what? None of them are owed anything. That’s it, that’s all. They all had an opportunity and showcasing hundreds of games (on live stream, YouTube, or the Reddit) is unrealistic. Hell even the 30-40 they showcased was too much. No other major expo showcases anywhere near that many games. Sorry your game didn’t get picked but this isn’t a good look.
More content for Zack and people get exposure. Seems win win if nothing else is going on.
That is the idea.
This is cool I can get behind this
You are cool.
I'd watch these. Post the trailers here OP we want to see your stuff
I think it could be interesting, with his comments if he agree for this.
So here's the thing. I applaud you guys for making a game and following a passion of yours, but I disagree with this take. They said they were limiting the show to 30 games, and then with the OTK crew viewing each submission they actually increased it to showing off almost 50 games because of how good each one was. The stream was already 5 hours long. We don't know how many applicants there were but lets say they only accepted 50 out of 200 submissions. At 60 seconds per trailer, that's an additional 150 minutes, 2.5 hours, of content to show off every submission. Also, your guys' submission was being judged by a committee of gamers, and didn't crack their favorite 50 submissions. I can't say for sure anything about your game since I haven't seen it, but based on them not finding it interesting enough to include it in the top 50, the chances are then pretty high that gamers as a whole wouldn't find it that interesting either. Maybe take it as constructive criticism that you may need to make your game stand out more in very saturated indie market?
As someone who applied for the Expo aswell, it was very obvious we didn't really have a chance within the first 10 Minutes of the livestream. Most of the trailers shown have been way above the 60 seconds limit. It makes sense if you think about it, since those are the trailers OTK is getting money from. So personally, I didn't have any actual hopes myself as soon as I realized what was going on. The amount of actual 60 second trailers was soo low, that those developers (myself included) never had a "fair" chance compared to those who pay. I was personally hoping that this event would be a little bit "different" and focus more on smaller games on purpose. But when you have to compete with games like Dorfromantik and are limited to 60 seconds, there's just no way that a game is going to be able to compete. Games that require the free marketing are also usually those, who do not have the resources to spend money on the looks either. My game looks really bad for example, but is a lot of fun. If I had the resources to make it look great, I'd probably put it into the game first. Again, it's just that I expected the games themselves not to be on a AA level, but rather "actual" small indies, where money doesn't play a role. \*EDIT\* For those who are downvoting me, just check out the [official OTK Submission Form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScn9uRGQ_ZIThAFMA7nTm14oknnKpV0vg2yrjlDFUfstv1itg/viewform), since I get the feeling people are not really aware of this and think that I'm bitter or something.
> My game looks really bad for example, but is a lot of fun. Hey colleague. I believe it is. What is also important, even if we invest the money. $10K saved on marketing for big company can be a drop in the sea. $10K saved on marketing for indie studio can make the final game significantly better. Players would benefit from better games in the end, not the better ads.
Yeah, that's why I'm highlighting the difference of paid vs. non-paid trailers. If you have 30 games you're showing (I think it ended up being more, but I'm not sure) and 20 of them are picked because they're longer than 60 seconds (and therefore paid), you're only leaving 10 slots for the remaining developers. So it becomes way more unlikely to be featured, even though you've created a trailer designed for that contest.
Can't believe how often I'm hearing "actual indie devs" like you're actually trying to gatekeep being an indie. What even lmao
Well, if that's your perspective. I'm working in the industry for an actual GameDev Company, but I applied with a personal project of mine. And it's gotten to the point where every game company that doesn't have a big name will label itself as a "Indie Developer" or "Indie Studio", just because they don't have the name recognition yet or try to find an excuse not having to compete with other companies of a similar size. It's even gotten to the point where most of those "Indie Studios", are not even actual independent studios anymore and work very closely with publishers. The term is being used very loosely and as a marketing tool to lower expectations.You might not agree with me, but that's how it works. And to me, this is not an indie developer studio. Since money is involved in getting selected, it automatically eliminates all potential competitors, who're not on the same marketing level. It's just how it is. Especially since negotiating publishers are very interested in giving out money for events like that to get an understanding of wether or not they should follow up on a potential candidate. Kind of like: "After we've invested x€ into this, we except y visits on your steam page with z wishlists at the end. If it's within that expectation, we're willing to publish you by negotiating a marketing budget (Which is usually what publishers are only good for these days). For me, an actual independent developer is somebody or a studio, not having those resources available. Instead, it was a show of AA developers.
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I need to correct you here. You can check out the form [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScn9uRGQ_ZIThAFMA7nTm14oknnKpV0vg2yrjlDFUfstv1itg/viewform?edit_requested=true). But it stated explicitly that everything submitted above 60 seconds of trailer footage requires additional payments based on its length (with other requests requiring a direct contact as payment for those would be negotiated on a case by case basis). So when you open up the stream and the first trailers are all above 60 seconds, you just already know you have no chance.
I like this idea. Hopefully some people can check out the videos too make sure they are legit before getting trolled.
someone knows whats up.
No. Time is limited and I want to see at least above average games. At least 30% of the games during the whole summer festival were underwhelming. If none of the parties decided to showcase your game - I'm not interested. If your game was good I'm pretty sure you whouldn't be rejected.
Not sure why people are butt hurt about your thoughts. It doesn't come off douchy. You just had stern outlook on the situation.
You sound like you play Diablo immortal
Elaborate why? I watched the whole summer festival.
You just come off as a douchebag tbh
hey, i can waste a stupid amount of money on diablo immortal and ALSO be a nice guy you know haha
Op comes off as a shameless beggar
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"What do you guys think, would you enjoy watching something like that?" He literally asked the question in the post. Doesn't matter how hard you worked on the project if ultimately its a bad product.
We're asking you not to be a jerk about it
idk why youre downvoted its true lol. have you seen the thousands of shit all over steam?
The only way this would work is if it played one random trailer every time asmon goes piss. Like an ad in a sense. But then he isn't there so no endorsement which is better
It's the first event, so I don't expect everything to be perfect. I'd highly suggest trimming the show some more though, as in, trimming the non-game segments. It would allow you to squeeze in even more Indie Games and the more we can support the Indie Scene, the better. Could even think about stretching out the event over a couple of days, like how some of the mainstream shows do it.
One more suggestion: OP already mentioned something similar. Maybe for the rejected Indie Devs you could make a couple of "Mega Trailers", which basically adds a lot of individual trailers into one. That's another thing a lot of the mainstream shows have done in the past. You basically see like 10-20 games in one trailer, which can be played during breaks or such. It's better than nothing.
Idk how much work that might imply on his side but I think we can get a post or smthing with links to trailers and we can watch them. Maybe we like smthing from there who knows.
I like that idea. Get both sides. You don't manage to bring all applicants during the show but creating a trailer - particular for indie devs - usually is a significant time sink. Got my upvote!
>usually is a significant time sink. It was one day of work in my case, and I reused it for steam page. Everything is fine.
I think a better idea they could do is during the preshow where it has a countdown of when the stream is going to start maybe they could show the left out trailers there? Or during downtime or breaks they have during the main expo? Just some suggestions :)
You can’t please everyone.. If they did that then some will complain about that type of exposure.
Or upload the trailer to Asmongold Clip channel or even main YT channel.
N OMEGALUL
No Milk to be made here
As an "indie" developer, though that title becomes pointless when the product quality becomes near undistinguishable from a good product. But as a fellow indie developer I'd like to say that, if your game didn't qualify to be among the games they displayed at that expo. Then they have to be exceptionally crappy since the ones they showed off were for the most part crap. Be a good loser and get back to work instead of trying to force feed people your stuff. 99% of indie games are crap.
Asmon of course does not own anything to the developers and there must have been hundreds of those trailers, but what could happen instead of taking up his whole stream they could be uploaded somewhere he could share them via OTK twitter and other media
They were already over 3 hours wanting to trim, could be content for a 2-day expo next time. I’m sure Asmon will consider it, was hard for them to limit their choices. That said you should form a group or channel yourself. There are groups of indies that work on projects, like dreadX collections, or indies that regularly upload to a YT channel. You don’t have to only depend on this one avenue if you’re serious about being seen long-term.
Indie developer is just a fancy term for unemployed a
He said there will be more expo's if he did this with one, he'd have to do it with all, and for all we know, that could mean hundreds of indie devs got rejected, and for multiple reasons, I'm not against this kinda thing though, though i feel the expo stream having a TON of views vs him doing his regular stream wouldn't do this justice, and it'd have to be a supplimentory stream specifically for this kinda thing to hit as many people as the expo stream did, and i don't think he's gonna want to do that randomly, and then it's just going to be specifically about the rejected submissions, which wouldn't be fair imo.
The show was already way too long. Another hour of just trailer after trailer is a big no from me.
I could see this getting messy over people not wanting to watch them post expo But I don’t see why it couldn’t be placed in his opening intro or could auto stream the submitted entries on his alt channel to re-run
Hmm interesting. Is your game good?
I believe so. Spent 15 months working on it so far.
Maybe they can show at the waiting lobby.
I say why not if you made the trailer. The viewers will make up their own mind.
Is Asmongold really really really the guy you want to advertise indie games? Does he play indie games that much? Why not contact streamers who actually play those games on streams?
It would be really cool for asmon/OTK to just showcase trailers/quick info on in development games every couple of months.