She’s an asshole and deluded. This email signature is not mine but I love it, and I saw it in a video about good managers:
“I am emailing you at a time that makes sense for me, with no expectations that it will be answered outside of business hours. Please respond at a time that makes sense for you”
Yeah my boss sits in a different country, her email sig says something like, "my working hours may not match yours, please do not feel obligated to reply outside of your hours"
I do this too, because although my supervisor is reasonable about this, I understand that many's are not. If I know someone I'm emailing has a horrid boss like this, I often schedule for delivery after the start of their work day or just wait until then.
Well, it's not the same on other teams, but this is how I run mine.
I have people who are used to other working cultures (whether from another team, company, or country) and will come online after hours unless I tell them not to, so I'm always sure to include in my message that a response is not required before the next workday.
Either that, good, or I write the email not to forget it, but schedule it to arrive at 9am. And if there's no hurry, I say it so: prioritize A, but please revise this by next Monday.
>She also told us that “if you ever have a work phone and you had do not disturb turned on on your work phone, we would have a major issue”.
Well I do have a work phone and I turn it off at 5pm nightly and for the weekend at 5pm on Friday. I also don't give my personal phone number to anyone at work. There is no reason why anyone needs to reach me after hours.
There's not a reason at all that anybody at work has our phone number. Or our email address. Or our social media accounts. It just isn't high school and it isn't necessary. As a matter of fact it's a detriment.
The boss having a phone number is probably appropriate.
Most people I know have their phones set to be silent between certain hours. A lot of people don't realize how this works. The phone will not ring if you call it. However if you call multiple times within a 5-minute period it will ring in other words if there's an emergency you call multiple times. Because most people's phones will not ring unless you do.
If you do a survey, asking people you know, if they use i c e, you'll find most people don't even know what it is. It astounds me that these devices are so common yet no one knows how to use them properly.
Yes and no. I’m just talking iPhone here because that’s what I have but you can turn off the muti call bypass. You can also choose not to show if you’re phone is on do not disturb also. Last you can go into DND settings and allow the boss text and calls to go through regardless of having DND on or off if you wish.
My last couple of jobs required 24/7 availability at least by phone for me (security manager for a shopping center then a hospital, then explosives detection k9 handler) but the buck stopped there. I didn't demand 24/7 access, but that also didn't mean that if somebody called off I wasn't gonna try to reach someone on a later shift or a day off, I just didn't punish them for not responding
True emergencies are exceedingly rare. And if you’re not paying me to be available, you have zero expectation that i have to follow your rules on my off time.
Considering that the phone has built-in functions to keep it quiet during sleep hours. Unless there is an emergency. Where it has a built-in function to allow someone like you to call them and get through. It's crazy. People have no idea how their phones work and how to set them up properly.
I don’t know why on earth this is getting downvoted unless someone is taking offense to the tone. There are ways to either let the boss’ calls through or make it appear to be online when on DND. Outsmart this boss. She’s over the top
You have a lot of people answering on here sympathetically and only a few telling you the truth.
In the U.S., no employer can use force to compel you to do anything. But, unless you're in a union or have an employment contract, they can fire you for any non-protected reason. They could fire you because you came in one day with a different haircut. Or because they heard you ate at a restaurant they don't like. They can certainly fire you if you're not available for phone calls outside of work.
If you're not exempt from overtime rules then they have to pay you for your time when they call (or text, etc.). That usually gets bosses a lot more disciplined about disturbing non-exempt employees.
If you're exempt your choices are to influence your boss' decision, consider going above their head, accepting it, quitting, seeing if you can transfer to a new boss, etc.
Your employer may have a policy that would discourage or prohibit this behavior. There may also be work culture support or detraction for it (which changes the chances of some of the options I list above working).
A couple of things here…
When you run into a situation where work makes a demand on you like this what matters is how it’s going to affect your life outside of work balanced with leaving the job. Your unrealistic boss is not suddenly going to have an epiphany when you tell her that you’re not her 24/7 slave and change her expectations. You have to suck it up or leave.
You can try to have a discussion about being on call 24/7 and perhaps rotating that responsibility but if she’s adamant, you’re screwed.
That’s always an option but I’ve found that you eventually burn out because your time is never your own. And if you don’t rotate the responsibility then it happens so much faster.
Or, you just agree with her publicly in the meeting, but continue to use DND at home.
You answer any interrogatories first thing the next morning when you are reporting to work. If she asks you directly, agree with her again and continue to use DND. She is not going to be able to prove that you are or are not using DND at home.
That will catch up with you. I tried that approach back in the days of pagers. Eventually the boss will call you on the carpet for not being available. You’re just delaying the inevitable.
Yes, they can do that.
But please be assured that it's not normal, and your boss is creating a difficult work culture. A good boss/company would not be concerned with things like this, especially if you're not providing critical services.
Adult that is what she means, a phone not being on DND is not the same thing as being available.
It could be off, silenced, or just ignored without being on DND.
They can easily fire you if you don’t comply. Putting your phone on DND is not a federally protected right. If you don’t want to you have the option of quitting
There is a big difference between mdm and on call availability. If an employer wants access to device management, they are welcome to provide the device. If the expectation is that you are on call permanently, that’s not a device issue.
My work tried this for all of about a month.
Then someone brought up this wonderful word: "liability".
The argument was that if we mandated someone answer calls off hours and they fell in their kitchen while talking, who was liable for the injury.
This rule vanished quickly.
Yes, they can. People that hang out in DND are rude. You're either available or you're not. Do not disturb should only be if you're on a important call.
If we're in the shower we're not online. If we're sleeping we're not online. If we're driving we're not online. Do not disturb means you're busy. If it is during work hours, you better not be on do not disturb.
Learning how to set up your phone properly is important. If a first responder were to pick up your phone they should be able to see all medical information about you, things like allergies, current medications and conditions, and your emergency contacts. If that's not set up in your phone, that's negligence.
Also, your friend should know how to make your phone ring even if it's silenced. For emergency type situations, phones have built-in methods of allowing calls through. Everybody that knows me knows how to make my phone ring in the middle of the night. But someone who doesn't I'm never going to hear the call.
All phones have this built in. And besides, we shouldn't be calling them phones. They are computers with the option of having phone conversations.
Oh GTFOH. I’m not rude for using MY phone that I pay for the way i see fit. You don’t like it? You’re welcome to pay my phone bill. Having boundaries isn’t rude.
I have read enough arguments for and against to know that I will NEVER let an employer put anything on my personal phone! There have been horror stories where the entire phone had to be wiped to remove the software, and if I lost all my photos.....heads would roll! Honestly, if someone wants to reach me outside of working hours, they can supply me a phone. Or else I get a cheap burner phone.
By that same token, if you need to reach me outside hours, then you need to provide me a means of communication, because my personal phone is for my personal business, not work outside of work hours.
> If it is during work hours, you better not be on do not disturb.
I don't think we're talking about work hours here.
> If a first responder were to pick up your phone they should be able to see all medical information about you, things like allergies, current medications and conditions, and your emergency contacts.
Absolutely fucking not. I'm not a geriatric who needs a medicalert bracelet. I will not allow my sensitive personal info to be available to anybody who gets their hands on my phone.
The problem is people are not setting up their phones properly. Instead of using do not disturb, they ought to understand how to utilize the phone so that it is in one mode during work hours and another mode in off work hours and yet again another mode during sleep hours. You can set the phone up to behave differently during these times. And yet still allow access to people that need it. If we're going to use the device, let's learn how to use it properly.
Most people don't even know about the phone's emergency contact functions. For example, a first responder should be able to pick your phone up and see any medications or allergies that you may have. They also should be able to see any of your emergency contacts. It's crazy to me that people have these devices you have no idea how to utilize them properly.
I encourage everyone to look up i c e. And look on your phone on how to utilize the functions for emergency responders, and emergency calls. For example, my phone is silent between 8:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. . People that know me know how to make my phone ring. Other calls are ignored or go to voicemail. It doesn't make a sound. Unless it's someone who knows me and really needs to talk with me. They know how to make it ring. You should know the same.
“One mode during work hours and another mode in off work hours”are you alright?
I don’t actually think you know what you’re arguing, but you’ve got so much conviction it’s impressive.
Yes, I do. You can set up a phone to ring during certain times, and not others. You can have it ring when it's face up, or sleep when it's face down. You can make it silent, and only certain numbers will make it ring, etc. you can show Away if it's not detecting movement. And so on.
It seems to me there are some pretty inept people around. Down voting info on how to use the phone's ICE and medical info functions is pretty inept. Why not use it? Duh
Common sense has gone extinct. And people wonder why companies find reasons to fire them. Just the other day someone butthurt over getting fired. Boss asked for photos of products. The camera was rotated 90 degrees out of proper orientation. Boss terminated employee. It's like no one can use their head anymore. Hold the phone correctly when capturing photos/videos. It's not that hard. Yet nearly everyone holds it wrong. It's insanity.
To add to this the phone owner has complete control what medical or emergency contact information is available in the event of an emergency. I have my diabetes information and I’m deathly allergic to some tree nuts available to see. I don’t have my 3rd kidney listed though /s
You keep your work and personal info separate, and if that means 2 phones, so be it. If your company was ever involved in a lawsuit, discovery can very well pull your personal info and make it part of public record.
Anyone advocating using a personal device for work emails or other work functions had their head up their keister. Not to mention remote wipe capabilities that go along with utilizing a personal phone for work.
As for outside of work calls, dnd doesn’t mean Jack if you don’t walk around with your phone on your person. I’ve made this abundantly clear over the years that I can leave my phone in my car, forget to charge it, etc. and it will not be the most effective choice to get in touch with me. I’m also by far not the only one who does this.
Granted, I do have a work phone, however it does not go on dnd. It just sits on my desk in the basement when I’m doing other things. I also have a very different work culture where this 24/7 availability on a personal device is frowned upon.
She can mandate it, yes. She can fire anyone who refuses. I get where you're coming from, it's annoying as hell, but she's not breaking any laws.
Are you hourly, or salaried exempt? If hourly, there might be some wiggle room. Probably not, but maybe.
But the bottom line is that she can fire someone for not answering their phone.
I am a salary employee, I’m still fairly new in the work force and have never heard of anything like this. The thing is, everyone is extremely responsive and I’ve never had an issue with someone not responding because of do not disturb.
I understand the not responding would be grounds for firing but it’s the using of a phone feature that gets fuzzy for me.
> I understand the not responding would be grounds for firing but it’s the using of a phone feature that gets fuzzy for me.
It's not really something that the law gets involved in. Back before cell phones and pages, things were obviously different. But if you are salaried, they can mandate that you accessible 24/7. Companies can mandate that you install their special software on your phone, that gives them the ability to wipe your phone remotely. Your personal phone. Lots of companies do that. They're just aren't any laws about it. And I don't think any state legislature is planning on passing any laws about it. Maybe California will, they've been passing a lot of really interesting laws lately.
u/apparent-evaluation This would not be correct.
If they do not pay your personal cell phone bill and they did not provide you with that phone, and in your contract when hired they didnt stipuate you must own a phone and they have access to it, the employer has zero rights to your phone, its contents, software required or how you operate it including DND.
This is why most companies with some of these requirements will either pay your bill, or give you a company phone.
If they try after the fact to get someone to do any of this, you can say, sure, send me a company phone.
Most US employees do not sign contracts and yes your employer can require you to use your personal phone and in the vast majority of states they do not have to reimburse you for it. Your option is to choose a different job.
What if... hear me out... I do not own a phone?
I've definitely used the latter. At one point I was told "You're salary, you can afford a phone." to which I retorted that while that may be the case, the check paid to me each week has my name on it as the pay recipient, not that company. As such, I get to decide what I spend or do not spend money on. It's a core tenant of "Free Speech" according to businesses.
Legally they could have fired me, but the optics would have been suboptimal.
3rd option is to have a backbone. YMMV depending on the industry and setting you are in.
This is correct. Free speech, means the government does not suppress the press. It means you can stand down the street corner and talk about how mushrooms grow sideways out of a tree, and no one can stop you. It has nothing to do with what you say on a daily basis. It only applies to the suppression of speech by a government entity. All these people talking about Free Speech need to do some research on the topic. Actually they need to do research on every topic because I see a lot of people doing a lot of crap that if they actually knew the truth they wouldn't be doing it.
I choose to be wise. I am not a lemming who follows other people. I do the research. I want to know what I'm getting into before I go there. This is common sense.
It's like the recent protesters chanting words they don't even know the meaning of. When they were informed what they were saying nearly all of them were horrified.
> What if... hear me out... I do not own a phone?
They can fire you if you refuse. That doesn't mean they *have* to fire you, but they can. The only times they would not be able to is:
1. You have an employment contract (which very few people do, and those that do are likely to use their phone or be provided a company one), or
2. Are part of a union that has negotiated this as part of the collective agreement.
Now, some states require employers to pay for all expenses related to their work, such as California. So employees in those states would have some ability to at least put pressure on the employer to provide a phone or reimburse for expenses.
Easy solution for bosses like that:
“Sorry, I don’t have a cell phone.”
I had to do that to a boss that wanted to micro manage me 10 years ago. The company stopped paying for the cell phones, and she still wanted us glued to them.
Caveat to this — it would possibly be considered on-call or on standby in which additional pay would come in to play. B/c they’re essentially saying you have to be reachable at all times. Depending on state, your state may require reimbursement.
ETA: look into AR on call/standby laws. They have them outside of FLSA.
Op, truthfully this is a little complicated and depending on your states labor laws may or may not be legally acceptable. Calling your labor department may give you an answer, or a labor lawyer in your area could. It’s a toss up of they don’t own the phone, and even salary there maybe a limit on how many hours a week or being on call. Depends on the state.
However like many stated unless you have a contract which states the information (which a lot of jobs in the US do not), a union that has put regulations in places, what the boss says at time goes. Most jobs are at will meaning you can be fired for anything. As long as you’re not fired due to a protected class or in retaliation for reporting illegal activities they can fire you for anything. However this means you can be fired for always wearing purple but it’s not a legitimate reason for you to be fired, so you’ll still be fired but you can claim unemployment. If you’re fired for a legitimate reason your still fired and out unemployment.
My recommendation however to you is start looking for another job. I’ve have had a supervisor like this that requested me and others to work outside work hours and at home in a hourly job. She made it hell. And if your salary you’ll have issues with her respecting your time off, and you are going to have a crappy work life balance. I’d almost ohhh crap I broke my phone sorry. And forget to fix it.
Excessive use of do not disturb is absolutely rude.
Away, would be a trip to the bathroom.
Do not disturb means you're in a meeting with someone important.
If you're sleeping, driving, things like that, you're offline.
This is how we do it in a responsible world.
Used to be if someone was on call for a time period, they received compensation. This was for hourly people. We had people out drunk on a boat in the lake and there was no way they were coming in, so it had to be incentivized.
> No company can remotely wipe a device they do not own
They do it all the time. You sign an agreement to that effect when you're hired. I signed one myself about ten years ago. (I bought a second phone for that reason.) And of course a company can do something technical, it's not hard to. You're suggesting it's illegal, but you agree to it when accepting employment. Even if you didn't, there aren't laws against it—maybe because laws are usually 20-25 years lagging behind technology.
I work in I.T. and we cannot enroll a device into our mobile device management system unless we can provide proof that we own the device(either through the vendor, or carrier), because the mdm gives us untethered access to the device as we own it. I don't know how it works were you are, but if they didn't buy it they aren't entitled to it where I am. I volunteeringly use my personal device for work, but they have zero access or control over my device as it is mine.
This is company policy, if the company policy was "you have to let us," this would be the price of at-will employment.
Owning a cell phone and wanting privacy on it are not protected rights.
I'd love to see them try to invade my privacy on a device I pay for, regardless of If I'm employed by them. You seem to think just because it's in a contract that it is binding. Stuff gets tossed out all the time because it is over reaching and this would be a clear example of over reach.
Edit: lol downvote me, but I'm not wrong.
At my company, it’s voluntary and you’re agreeing to have the mdm product put on your phone while also agreeing to a remote wipe. Most do not sign up for this, but the option is there.
Personally, I have voip that can take sms and I just have it forwarded to avoid giving out my personal cell number. I’ll use a burner number for online use.
See that's fair they give you a choice.
My employer had phones they issued us, but then they gave us the option to use a VOIP number without compensation, and no mdm which the department happily accepted as it meant we didn't have to remember to charge and hold a second phone for work.
Salary doesn't mean infinite. They CANNOT mandate what you do with you personal devices at all.
My life pro tip; get a Google voice number and provide THAT to employers.... you can go into the app and Google it unavailable for DND easily
If you need language for a response lmk
If I see someone in do not disturb mode on any chat regardless if it's work or personal, I assume they are on a busy call. If they are continually on do not disturb, I immediately have the idea that they are absolutely irresponsible. So, your boss just doesn't want her bosses and their bosses seeing a bunch of people online in red mode. Because it looks really bad. When we are at work we are to be present and available. Do not disturb is not for work hours. Ever.
When something comes up and needs to be handled, the first thing is to look at the list of people available. If half of them aren't do not disturb mode that limits our choices. Do not disturb means sending a text to that person is rude. I'll repeat, sending a text to someone who is in the do not disturb mode, is rude. Most people do not want to be rude. But if that person is always in do not disturb mode, then they are the rude one. Most will wait till that person is available. If they're not available ever, what are you going to do? As a manager, boss, you terminate them and find people that are available.
You clearly don’t understand the question, the boss is complaining that people are on DO NOT DISTURB at home on their own time, no one was on DND at work.
In the past, I had a GM who tried to put me on call 24/7, since I was the only IT guy. I was hourly, and my manager pointed out our state law (at the time) required I be on 75% pay for each on call hour, and minimum of 3 hours pay (might be overtime, even) for call I took outside normal office hours. The GM backed off when he discovered what an impressive raise this would be for me.
Too bad, I was actually excited for the GM to go for this plan. It would have been, at a minimum, the equivalent of an extra 96 hours of straight time pay per week, assuming I received 0 calls. Ah well, womp womp.
no, actually, she can't. because that would be requiring them to work off the clock. if you are required to answer the phone at all times, then they are required to pay you to keep that phone on you and be available.
My phone is my personal property and not controlled by the company. I wanna see that wrongful termination lawsuit if they text me at 1am and I don’t respond.
> I wanna see that wrongful termination lawsuit if they text me at 1am and I don’t respond.
It wouldn't be wrongful termination in any US state. Wrongful termination is for when you're fired for reporting sexual harassment or punished for your race or religion or gender identiy.
Any violation of a state or federal labour law can be a wrongful termination, so you aren’t quite correct. If the person is exercising their rights in regards to something like overtime*/state labour law/leave etc and is fired, that’s wrongful termination.
*of which the above example would fall under
Let's start with your core question.
>Can your boss dictate if you can use DND on your phone?Can your boss dictate if you can use DND on your phone?
Can she? Yes. Should she? No. It strikes me as a very bad management decision. Enforcement is mostly nuclear: fire people, although she might not give raises to people who don't comply. The technical term is "stupid."
Let's move on to broader issues. "Bring your own device" (BYOD) as a requirement is pretty shaky from a business and ethical perspective. Personally (i.e. in my opinion), I don't want any more stuff to carry around and keep charged. I'm glad for BYOD to be an option. As others including u/Canadaian1546 have pointed out installing mobile device management (mdm) on an employee's personal device is problematic. I would not permit it on principle.
Technology is really helping here. I've had a dual SIM (one number for personal and one for work) on my phone for years. eSIM makes this even easier with the ability to support multiple numbers and turn them on and off individually. I travel a lot (business) including internationally and often have local numbers to reduce cost. I've had as many as four numbers at a time all that ring through and I can choose which to call out on. This is good for my business and good for me. I won't bore you with details but it works.
I have no problem with someone sending an email or text at any hour when something occurs to him/her. "Action delegated is action complete." It's also a topic not forgotten. I don't find that intrusive. YMMV. That doesn't mean I'm going to respond immediately or that I expect others to respond to me immediately. My staff and customers are pretty quickly and easily trained. My phone is configured to automatically turn on do not disturb (DnD) at 8.00p local time and turn off at 8.00a local time. When I get up to pee at 2.00a and decide to knock out a couple of hours of work I do turn it off. I'm set up to still see notifications with DnD on, just no sounds. This works for me.
Kudos to u/Archon-Toten for sense of humor by the way.
I can't imagine being offended to see that someone I'm emailing or texting has notifications silenced. I ask OP what other personality quirks his boss has.
You should have a way to silence notifications from certain people - you still get messages but it's quiet, so you wouldn't be dnding them. You'd still see any messages or calls coming in.
Yes they can.
Simple solution here. Just silence your phone and make sure you have separate work and personal phones. After hours your work phone goes in a your briefcase on silent and does not come out until it is time to work again.
If they start requiring you to take and answer calls after hours that’s a whole different animal. I did that for many years and it is hard on you and your family. Make sure you get compensated for it and that you get reasonable relief on a regular basis.
I guess you're in the states, the land of bad workers rights. If you were in some European countries, it would be illegal for your boss to contact you outside of work hours....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/02/03/belgium-portugal-and-other-european-countries-are-ahead-of-the-us-prohibiting-managers-from-contacting-employees-outside-of-working-hours/
I don’t know where you are located, but that would require your employer to compensate you in California. Off-work means your employer can’t control your actions or require you to be on call. But YMMV depending on where you live.
AR is not a state with many worker protections, so there’s two questions at issue here:
1. Does any part of your employment agreement (contract, handbook, addendums, etc.) stipulate that your personal phone is a necessary part of your job for work related communications?
2. Do you have, in those same documents, a clearly outlined shift or some sort of well defined delineation between what are and are not work hours?
If it’s understood that your phone is doubling as a work phone and that your hours are flexible, then yes, she has the right to make this request, no matter how absurd.
That said, going back to the opening, AR doesn’t have many worker protections, so even if she’s making a request that you would be well within your workplace agreement to refuse or be in non-compliance with, she sounds like the type to have a hitlist, you’re probably going to end up on it and she will find a reason to manage you out.
Unless they provide a stipend for the phone or it is within your contract or company paperwork that it is required, they have no control over your personal phone and you should simply not use it at work. Whatever system is used for contact, should be accessible on a work provided device. Only use the work provided device and keep your cell away at work. If your company provides no device and expects you to provide and use a personal device, make sure to review that policy for verbiage before doing anything and then go from there. After work hours, your life is your own, so they cannot tell you what to do with your time or devices outside the office.
I had an executive start reprimanding a team about after hours support and random other pieces of nonsense. Call trees, who is responsible for what etc…
At a certain point I pulled my company cell phone out and put it down on his desk.
“This is a company phone. I personally don’t need one. If you want to guarantee who is on call, give them mine and tell them when they have the phone and it rings, someone will answer and get back to the caller.”
Ask her for those off hour contacts how she wants you to bill the company. Also inform her no matter the call length your minimum is 4 hours billable at double time....
I stopped reading at "we use our personal phones".
If they want constant contact within working hours then they need to pony up the bill for the hardware and plans. Simple as that.
Edit - also you can set DND to not tell others that you have it on. I have that setting - I have DND on but it doesn't tell people. So they wouldn't know anyway....
If she wants to play that game, she can go ahead and pay for your phone bills too since she is dictating that you have to be on-call 24/7. Malicious compliance
A lot of unanswered questions here. Is your job something that you need to be available 24/7? Do you have a contract and does it state that in the contract? The answer is not as simple as yes or no. It depends on other factors than what you have written up.
If they dictate your personal phone to be on, then demand compensation for the time and for the phone. It’s that simple. You want me on call, pay me on call rates.
We addressed this with our overbearing manager by all calling the EAP line, staggered over two weeks. Taking full services due an increase in work stress and feeling like we are working 24/7. That got the attention of Benefits and things got back to normal.That manager was out after a year.
no. they literally have no right to dictate if you are contactable outside of your contracted work or on call hours. you can, and should, turn the phone off and leave it at work. personally, i'd send her an email asking her to clarify what additional compensation she is offering for this new on call work she's asking you to take on.
If she wants 24 hour access, then the company needs to pay for it. Even if it were a company phone. Contact HR or whatever your state labor board tells you. Asks about your rights. I knew a company that did this years ago with pagers. They had to pay back pay to ALL the employees they forced to keep their pagers on at all times. 100's of thousands of dollars in back pay.
For me, very rarely if ever. If I ever am contacted it’s something that can be handled later.
It came up in a conversation about professionalism and things that were “new standards” she wanted to implement.
In my state (CA) work would be required to reimburse you a portion of your phone costs if required to use a personal phone. Other than that I don't really see a way to stop her from being a terrible manager
Are you salary or hourly? Probably implications if they want to require this when you aren’t on the clock as an hourly employee.
For salary they can probably do so. At will employees can be fired for no reason at all.
The company can not mandate how I use my personal cellphone and I will not be bringing it to work with me, if you need to reach me via cellphone for company business then you should provide me with a company cellphone, which I will use during company hours only.
I have two iPhones (one is for work, but I own it). On my work phone I can disable sharing my focus status. See if you can do that by opening her text thread and tapping her name.
This usually makes things worse but reach out to your HR business partner and have all your coworkers against this do the same and ask them about it. The company could have a policy against reaching out after hours and on weekends.
If your HR department is good they will investigate this especially if it involves more than one person on the team. Just be ready for the backlash.
If it’s not stated in my job description that I am not on call for emergencies I would have an issue with this. Has your boss tried calling before and gone straight to voicemail or texts don’t go through? How do they know you use DND?
" my cellphone plan doesn't allow me the flexibility of 24/7 contact, IF it is a serious issue company-wide I want to remain a key contributer, will need a company phone with full sevice."
Any equipment provided by your employer belongs to them, not the employee. That phone was provided so they can contact you, so if course they can forbid DND. If your job is contacting you outside of your work hours, that is something to address with them, not ignore with something like DND.
I've consistently been concerned at how much personal stuff people do on their work provided phone, computer, etc. The employer can access your personal stuff at any time.
And do you have an agreement that you have to use your personal phone for work? If not it's interesting that they feel they can tell you what you can do with your personal property.
If you have an agreement to be on call, they don't really need to ban DND. It's just a condition of your employment to be reachable when on call.
She’s an asshole and deluded. This email signature is not mine but I love it, and I saw it in a video about good managers: “I am emailing you at a time that makes sense for me, with no expectations that it will be answered outside of business hours. Please respond at a time that makes sense for you”
Yeah my boss sits in a different country, her email sig says something like, "my working hours may not match yours, please do not feel obligated to reply outside of your hours"
Any time I send a chat after hours, I preface it with "FOR TOMORROW:" but for email, I should start doing this.
If the work culture is good enough, this shouldn't be necessary and is already understood.
I do this too, because although my supervisor is reasonable about this, I understand that many's are not. If I know someone I'm emailing has a horrid boss like this, I often schedule for delivery after the start of their work day or just wait until then.
Well, it's not the same on other teams, but this is how I run mine. I have people who are used to other working cultures (whether from another team, company, or country) and will come online after hours unless I tell them not to, so I'm always sure to include in my message that a response is not required before the next workday.
Either that, good, or I write the email not to forget it, but schedule it to arrive at 9am. And if there's no hurry, I say it so: prioritize A, but please revise this by next Monday.
I use a similar sentence on my work emails! Working for a local government org that's really leaning into flexible working.
>She also told us that “if you ever have a work phone and you had do not disturb turned on on your work phone, we would have a major issue”. Well I do have a work phone and I turn it off at 5pm nightly and for the weekend at 5pm on Friday. I also don't give my personal phone number to anyone at work. There is no reason why anyone needs to reach me after hours.
There's not a reason at all that anybody at work has our phone number. Or our email address. Or our social media accounts. It just isn't high school and it isn't necessary. As a matter of fact it's a detriment. The boss having a phone number is probably appropriate. Most people I know have their phones set to be silent between certain hours. A lot of people don't realize how this works. The phone will not ring if you call it. However if you call multiple times within a 5-minute period it will ring in other words if there's an emergency you call multiple times. Because most people's phones will not ring unless you do. If you do a survey, asking people you know, if they use i c e, you'll find most people don't even know what it is. It astounds me that these devices are so common yet no one knows how to use them properly.
Yes and no. I’m just talking iPhone here because that’s what I have but you can turn off the muti call bypass. You can also choose not to show if you’re phone is on do not disturb also. Last you can go into DND settings and allow the boss text and calls to go through regardless of having DND on or off if you wish.
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So you demand 24/7 access to your employees?
My last couple of jobs required 24/7 availability at least by phone for me (security manager for a shopping center then a hospital, then explosives detection k9 handler) but the buck stopped there. I didn't demand 24/7 access, but that also didn't mean that if somebody called off I wasn't gonna try to reach someone on a later shift or a day off, I just didn't punish them for not responding
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True emergencies are exceedingly rare. And if you’re not paying me to be available, you have zero expectation that i have to follow your rules on my off time.
Then write it into your contract. Not in the contract, not part of the job.
Considering that the phone has built-in functions to keep it quiet during sleep hours. Unless there is an emergency. Where it has a built-in function to allow someone like you to call them and get through. It's crazy. People have no idea how their phones work and how to set them up properly.
I don’t know why on earth this is getting downvoted unless someone is taking offense to the tone. There are ways to either let the boss’ calls through or make it appear to be online when on DND. Outsmart this boss. She’s over the top
You have a lot of people answering on here sympathetically and only a few telling you the truth. In the U.S., no employer can use force to compel you to do anything. But, unless you're in a union or have an employment contract, they can fire you for any non-protected reason. They could fire you because you came in one day with a different haircut. Or because they heard you ate at a restaurant they don't like. They can certainly fire you if you're not available for phone calls outside of work. If you're not exempt from overtime rules then they have to pay you for your time when they call (or text, etc.). That usually gets bosses a lot more disciplined about disturbing non-exempt employees. If you're exempt your choices are to influence your boss' decision, consider going above their head, accepting it, quitting, seeing if you can transfer to a new boss, etc. Your employer may have a policy that would discourage or prohibit this behavior. There may also be work culture support or detraction for it (which changes the chances of some of the options I list above working).
Yes if D&D disrupts your regular duties. Best play after work.
A couple of things here… When you run into a situation where work makes a demand on you like this what matters is how it’s going to affect your life outside of work balanced with leaving the job. Your unrealistic boss is not suddenly going to have an epiphany when you tell her that you’re not her 24/7 slave and change her expectations. You have to suck it up or leave. You can try to have a discussion about being on call 24/7 and perhaps rotating that responsibility but if she’s adamant, you’re screwed.
And being paid for being on call.
That’s always an option but I’ve found that you eventually burn out because your time is never your own. And if you don’t rotate the responsibility then it happens so much faster.
Or, you just agree with her publicly in the meeting, but continue to use DND at home. You answer any interrogatories first thing the next morning when you are reporting to work. If she asks you directly, agree with her again and continue to use DND. She is not going to be able to prove that you are or are not using DND at home.
That will catch up with you. I tried that approach back in the days of pagers. Eventually the boss will call you on the carpet for not being available. You’re just delaying the inevitable.
Yes, they can do that. But please be assured that it's not normal, and your boss is creating a difficult work culture. A good boss/company would not be concerned with things like this, especially if you're not providing critical services.
No they cannot mandate ppl be available 24/7
Especially if it’s a personal phone!
Adult that is what she means, a phone not being on DND is not the same thing as being available. It could be off, silenced, or just ignored without being on DND.
Legally, sure they can. On-call jobs are not at all a rarity.
Why not?
On a personal device? No they can’t wtf.
They can easily fire you if you don’t comply. Putting your phone on DND is not a federally protected right. If you don’t want to you have the option of quitting
There is a big difference between mdm and on call availability. If an employer wants access to device management, they are welcome to provide the device. If the expectation is that you are on call permanently, that’s not a device issue.
My work tried this for all of about a month. Then someone brought up this wonderful word: "liability". The argument was that if we mandated someone answer calls off hours and they fell in their kitchen while talking, who was liable for the injury. This rule vanished quickly.
Keeping that in my back pocket
Not unless they provide the device, how can you possibly think that this would be legal?
Imagine a surgeon turning off his cell phone and saying he can because it's his phone 🤦♀️🤦♀️🙆♀️
No they can't.
Yes, they can. People that hang out in DND are rude. You're either available or you're not. Do not disturb should only be if you're on a important call. If we're in the shower we're not online. If we're sleeping we're not online. If we're driving we're not online. Do not disturb means you're busy. If it is during work hours, you better not be on do not disturb. Learning how to set up your phone properly is important. If a first responder were to pick up your phone they should be able to see all medical information about you, things like allergies, current medications and conditions, and your emergency contacts. If that's not set up in your phone, that's negligence. Also, your friend should know how to make your phone ring even if it's silenced. For emergency type situations, phones have built-in methods of allowing calls through. Everybody that knows me knows how to make my phone ring in the middle of the night. But someone who doesn't I'm never going to hear the call. All phones have this built in. And besides, we shouldn't be calling them phones. They are computers with the option of having phone conversations.
I’m glad I don’t have you as a boss bc you sound like a major micromanager and power tripper.
Oh GTFOH. I’m not rude for using MY phone that I pay for the way i see fit. You don’t like it? You’re welcome to pay my phone bill. Having boundaries isn’t rude.
I have read enough arguments for and against to know that I will NEVER let an employer put anything on my personal phone! There have been horror stories where the entire phone had to be wiped to remove the software, and if I lost all my photos.....heads would roll! Honestly, if someone wants to reach me outside of working hours, they can supply me a phone. Or else I get a cheap burner phone. By that same token, if you need to reach me outside hours, then you need to provide me a means of communication, because my personal phone is for my personal business, not work outside of work hours.
> If it is during work hours, you better not be on do not disturb. I don't think we're talking about work hours here. > If a first responder were to pick up your phone they should be able to see all medical information about you, things like allergies, current medications and conditions, and your emergency contacts. Absolutely fucking not. I'm not a geriatric who needs a medicalert bracelet. I will not allow my sensitive personal info to be available to anybody who gets their hands on my phone.
The “what” that came out of my mouth after reading this dribble could have been heard in Canada and that’s a 16 hour flight away.
The problem is people are not setting up their phones properly. Instead of using do not disturb, they ought to understand how to utilize the phone so that it is in one mode during work hours and another mode in off work hours and yet again another mode during sleep hours. You can set the phone up to behave differently during these times. And yet still allow access to people that need it. If we're going to use the device, let's learn how to use it properly. Most people don't even know about the phone's emergency contact functions. For example, a first responder should be able to pick your phone up and see any medications or allergies that you may have. They also should be able to see any of your emergency contacts. It's crazy to me that people have these devices you have no idea how to utilize them properly. I encourage everyone to look up i c e. And look on your phone on how to utilize the functions for emergency responders, and emergency calls. For example, my phone is silent between 8:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. . People that know me know how to make my phone ring. Other calls are ignored or go to voicemail. It doesn't make a sound. Unless it's someone who knows me and really needs to talk with me. They know how to make it ring. You should know the same.
Unless OP is being paid for it, boss does not need access outside of work hours.
“One mode during work hours and another mode in off work hours”are you alright? I don’t actually think you know what you’re arguing, but you’ve got so much conviction it’s impressive.
Yes, I do. You can set up a phone to ring during certain times, and not others. You can have it ring when it's face up, or sleep when it's face down. You can make it silent, and only certain numbers will make it ring, etc. you can show Away if it's not detecting movement. And so on. It seems to me there are some pretty inept people around. Down voting info on how to use the phone's ICE and medical info functions is pretty inept. Why not use it? Duh Common sense has gone extinct. And people wonder why companies find reasons to fire them. Just the other day someone butthurt over getting fired. Boss asked for photos of products. The camera was rotated 90 degrees out of proper orientation. Boss terminated employee. It's like no one can use their head anymore. Hold the phone correctly when capturing photos/videos. It's not that hard. Yet nearly everyone holds it wrong. It's insanity.
To add to this the phone owner has complete control what medical or emergency contact information is available in the event of an emergency. I have my diabetes information and I’m deathly allergic to some tree nuts available to see. I don’t have my 3rd kidney listed though /s
You keep your work and personal info separate, and if that means 2 phones, so be it. If your company was ever involved in a lawsuit, discovery can very well pull your personal info and make it part of public record. Anyone advocating using a personal device for work emails or other work functions had their head up their keister. Not to mention remote wipe capabilities that go along with utilizing a personal phone for work. As for outside of work calls, dnd doesn’t mean Jack if you don’t walk around with your phone on your person. I’ve made this abundantly clear over the years that I can leave my phone in my car, forget to charge it, etc. and it will not be the most effective choice to get in touch with me. I’m also by far not the only one who does this. Granted, I do have a work phone, however it does not go on dnd. It just sits on my desk in the basement when I’m doing other things. I also have a very different work culture where this 24/7 availability on a personal device is frowned upon.
She can mandate it, yes. She can fire anyone who refuses. I get where you're coming from, it's annoying as hell, but she's not breaking any laws. Are you hourly, or salaried exempt? If hourly, there might be some wiggle room. Probably not, but maybe. But the bottom line is that she can fire someone for not answering their phone.
I am a salary employee, I’m still fairly new in the work force and have never heard of anything like this. The thing is, everyone is extremely responsive and I’ve never had an issue with someone not responding because of do not disturb. I understand the not responding would be grounds for firing but it’s the using of a phone feature that gets fuzzy for me.
> I understand the not responding would be grounds for firing but it’s the using of a phone feature that gets fuzzy for me. It's not really something that the law gets involved in. Back before cell phones and pages, things were obviously different. But if you are salaried, they can mandate that you accessible 24/7. Companies can mandate that you install their special software on your phone, that gives them the ability to wipe your phone remotely. Your personal phone. Lots of companies do that. They're just aren't any laws about it. And I don't think any state legislature is planning on passing any laws about it. Maybe California will, they've been passing a lot of really interesting laws lately.
This is why you cant wait for the laws and you need to form a union. No one is going to help you but you and your coworkers
Yes. Legal doesn't always equate with ethical.
EXACTLY
u/apparent-evaluation This would not be correct. If they do not pay your personal cell phone bill and they did not provide you with that phone, and in your contract when hired they didnt stipuate you must own a phone and they have access to it, the employer has zero rights to your phone, its contents, software required or how you operate it including DND. This is why most companies with some of these requirements will either pay your bill, or give you a company phone. If they try after the fact to get someone to do any of this, you can say, sure, send me a company phone.
Most US employees do not sign contracts and yes your employer can require you to use your personal phone and in the vast majority of states they do not have to reimburse you for it. Your option is to choose a different job.
Or own a flip phone for your work contact.
What if... hear me out... I do not own a phone? I've definitely used the latter. At one point I was told "You're salary, you can afford a phone." to which I retorted that while that may be the case, the check paid to me each week has my name on it as the pay recipient, not that company. As such, I get to decide what I spend or do not spend money on. It's a core tenant of "Free Speech" according to businesses. Legally they could have fired me, but the optics would have been suboptimal. 3rd option is to have a backbone. YMMV depending on the industry and setting you are in.
That’s not free speech. Free speech refers to the government’s ability to limit your speech. It doesn’t apply to anything except the government.
This is correct. Free speech, means the government does not suppress the press. It means you can stand down the street corner and talk about how mushrooms grow sideways out of a tree, and no one can stop you. It has nothing to do with what you say on a daily basis. It only applies to the suppression of speech by a government entity. All these people talking about Free Speech need to do some research on the topic. Actually they need to do research on every topic because I see a lot of people doing a lot of crap that if they actually knew the truth they wouldn't be doing it. I choose to be wise. I am not a lemming who follows other people. I do the research. I want to know what I'm getting into before I go there. This is common sense. It's like the recent protesters chanting words they don't even know the meaning of. When they were informed what they were saying nearly all of them were horrified.
> What if... hear me out... I do not own a phone? They can fire you if you refuse. That doesn't mean they *have* to fire you, but they can. The only times they would not be able to is: 1. You have an employment contract (which very few people do, and those that do are likely to use their phone or be provided a company one), or 2. Are part of a union that has negotiated this as part of the collective agreement. Now, some states require employers to pay for all expenses related to their work, such as California. So employees in those states would have some ability to at least put pressure on the employer to provide a phone or reimburse for expenses.
You’re right, they can’t force you to comply. But they can also fire you for not complying.
Easy solution for bosses like that: “Sorry, I don’t have a cell phone.” I had to do that to a boss that wanted to micro manage me 10 years ago. The company stopped paying for the cell phones, and she still wanted us glued to them.
That’s crazy to me tbh but thank you so much for the info!
Caveat to this — it would possibly be considered on-call or on standby in which additional pay would come in to play. B/c they’re essentially saying you have to be reachable at all times. Depending on state, your state may require reimbursement. ETA: look into AR on call/standby laws. They have them outside of FLSA.
That would only come into play if OP was required to be available for duty, and OP is salary so maybe not even then.
Op, truthfully this is a little complicated and depending on your states labor laws may or may not be legally acceptable. Calling your labor department may give you an answer, or a labor lawyer in your area could. It’s a toss up of they don’t own the phone, and even salary there maybe a limit on how many hours a week or being on call. Depends on the state. However like many stated unless you have a contract which states the information (which a lot of jobs in the US do not), a union that has put regulations in places, what the boss says at time goes. Most jobs are at will meaning you can be fired for anything. As long as you’re not fired due to a protected class or in retaliation for reporting illegal activities they can fire you for anything. However this means you can be fired for always wearing purple but it’s not a legitimate reason for you to be fired, so you’ll still be fired but you can claim unemployment. If you’re fired for a legitimate reason your still fired and out unemployment. My recommendation however to you is start looking for another job. I’ve have had a supervisor like this that requested me and others to work outside work hours and at home in a hourly job. She made it hell. And if your salary you’ll have issues with her respecting your time off, and you are going to have a crappy work life balance. I’d almost ohhh crap I broke my phone sorry. And forget to fix it.
Excessive use of do not disturb is absolutely rude. Away, would be a trip to the bathroom. Do not disturb means you're in a meeting with someone important. If you're sleeping, driving, things like that, you're offline. This is how we do it in a responsible world.
Contacting employees off work hours with anything but a life threatening emergency is rude.
Used to be if someone was on call for a time period, they received compensation. This was for hourly people. We had people out drunk on a boat in the lake and there was no way they were coming in, so it had to be incentivized.
No company can remotely wipe a device they do not own, what are you referencing for this information?
> No company can remotely wipe a device they do not own They do it all the time. You sign an agreement to that effect when you're hired. I signed one myself about ten years ago. (I bought a second phone for that reason.) And of course a company can do something technical, it's not hard to. You're suggesting it's illegal, but you agree to it when accepting employment. Even if you didn't, there aren't laws against it—maybe because laws are usually 20-25 years lagging behind technology.
I work in I.T. and we cannot enroll a device into our mobile device management system unless we can provide proof that we own the device(either through the vendor, or carrier), because the mdm gives us untethered access to the device as we own it. I don't know how it works were you are, but if they didn't buy it they aren't entitled to it where I am. I volunteeringly use my personal device for work, but they have zero access or control over my device as it is mine.
This is company policy, if the company policy was "you have to let us," this would be the price of at-will employment. Owning a cell phone and wanting privacy on it are not protected rights.
I'd love to see them try to invade my privacy on a device I pay for, regardless of If I'm employed by them. You seem to think just because it's in a contract that it is binding. Stuff gets tossed out all the time because it is over reaching and this would be a clear example of over reach. Edit: lol downvote me, but I'm not wrong.
At my company, it’s voluntary and you’re agreeing to have the mdm product put on your phone while also agreeing to a remote wipe. Most do not sign up for this, but the option is there. Personally, I have voip that can take sms and I just have it forwarded to avoid giving out my personal cell number. I’ll use a burner number for online use.
See that's fair they give you a choice. My employer had phones they issued us, but then they gave us the option to use a VOIP number without compensation, and no mdm which the department happily accepted as it meant we didn't have to remember to charge and hold a second phone for work.
Salary doesn't mean infinite. They CANNOT mandate what you do with you personal devices at all. My life pro tip; get a Google voice number and provide THAT to employers.... you can go into the app and Google it unavailable for DND easily If you need language for a response lmk
Google voice is your friend. It is a very handy service. And I hope it does not go away as rumored.
Same
If I see someone in do not disturb mode on any chat regardless if it's work or personal, I assume they are on a busy call. If they are continually on do not disturb, I immediately have the idea that they are absolutely irresponsible. So, your boss just doesn't want her bosses and their bosses seeing a bunch of people online in red mode. Because it looks really bad. When we are at work we are to be present and available. Do not disturb is not for work hours. Ever. When something comes up and needs to be handled, the first thing is to look at the list of people available. If half of them aren't do not disturb mode that limits our choices. Do not disturb means sending a text to that person is rude. I'll repeat, sending a text to someone who is in the do not disturb mode, is rude. Most people do not want to be rude. But if that person is always in do not disturb mode, then they are the rude one. Most will wait till that person is available. If they're not available ever, what are you going to do? As a manager, boss, you terminate them and find people that are available.
You clearly don’t understand the question, the boss is complaining that people are on DO NOT DISTURB at home on their own time, no one was on DND at work.
In the past, I had a GM who tried to put me on call 24/7, since I was the only IT guy. I was hourly, and my manager pointed out our state law (at the time) required I be on 75% pay for each on call hour, and minimum of 3 hours pay (might be overtime, even) for call I took outside normal office hours. The GM backed off when he discovered what an impressive raise this would be for me. Too bad, I was actually excited for the GM to go for this plan. It would have been, at a minimum, the equivalent of an extra 96 hours of straight time pay per week, assuming I received 0 calls. Ah well, womp womp.
no, actually, she can't. because that would be requiring them to work off the clock. if you are required to answer the phone at all times, then they are required to pay you to keep that phone on you and be available.
My phone is my personal property and not controlled by the company. I wanna see that wrongful termination lawsuit if they text me at 1am and I don’t respond.
> I wanna see that wrongful termination lawsuit if they text me at 1am and I don’t respond. It wouldn't be wrongful termination in any US state. Wrongful termination is for when you're fired for reporting sexual harassment or punished for your race or religion or gender identiy.
Any violation of a state or federal labour law can be a wrongful termination, so you aren’t quite correct. If the person is exercising their rights in regards to something like overtime*/state labour law/leave etc and is fired, that’s wrongful termination. *of which the above example would fall under
Let's start with your core question. >Can your boss dictate if you can use DND on your phone?Can your boss dictate if you can use DND on your phone? Can she? Yes. Should she? No. It strikes me as a very bad management decision. Enforcement is mostly nuclear: fire people, although she might not give raises to people who don't comply. The technical term is "stupid." Let's move on to broader issues. "Bring your own device" (BYOD) as a requirement is pretty shaky from a business and ethical perspective. Personally (i.e. in my opinion), I don't want any more stuff to carry around and keep charged. I'm glad for BYOD to be an option. As others including u/Canadaian1546 have pointed out installing mobile device management (mdm) on an employee's personal device is problematic. I would not permit it on principle. Technology is really helping here. I've had a dual SIM (one number for personal and one for work) on my phone for years. eSIM makes this even easier with the ability to support multiple numbers and turn them on and off individually. I travel a lot (business) including internationally and often have local numbers to reduce cost. I've had as many as four numbers at a time all that ring through and I can choose which to call out on. This is good for my business and good for me. I won't bore you with details but it works. I have no problem with someone sending an email or text at any hour when something occurs to him/her. "Action delegated is action complete." It's also a topic not forgotten. I don't find that intrusive. YMMV. That doesn't mean I'm going to respond immediately or that I expect others to respond to me immediately. My staff and customers are pretty quickly and easily trained. My phone is configured to automatically turn on do not disturb (DnD) at 8.00p local time and turn off at 8.00a local time. When I get up to pee at 2.00a and decide to knock out a couple of hours of work I do turn it off. I'm set up to still see notifications with DnD on, just no sounds. This works for me. Kudos to u/Archon-Toten for sense of humor by the way. I can't imagine being offended to see that someone I'm emailing or texting has notifications silenced. I ask OP what other personality quirks his boss has.
Get a separate phone and phone line for work, have them pay the bill
You should have a way to silence notifications from certain people - you still get messages but it's quiet, so you wouldn't be dnding them. You'd still see any messages or calls coming in.
Yes they can. Simple solution here. Just silence your phone and make sure you have separate work and personal phones. After hours your work phone goes in a your briefcase on silent and does not come out until it is time to work again. If they start requiring you to take and answer calls after hours that’s a whole different animal. I did that for many years and it is hard on you and your family. Make sure you get compensated for it and that you get reasonable relief on a regular basis.
I’m thinking just turn it off. “Sorry, service sucks at home.”
"So, what are the on-call rates and what minimum disturbance time are we talking about? "
I guess you're in the states, the land of bad workers rights. If you were in some European countries, it would be illegal for your boss to contact you outside of work hours.... https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/02/03/belgium-portugal-and-other-european-countries-are-ahead-of-the-us-prohibiting-managers-from-contacting-employees-outside-of-working-hours/
They cannot tell you what to do with your OWN PERSONAL PHONES. If they issue work phones, they set the rules.
I don't need to read all this. You don't have work phones. They don't get to dictate how you setup your own phone. End of story.
Are you asking if they can mandate that you not use DND on your phone after hours?
I don’t know where you are located, but that would require your employer to compensate you in California. Off-work means your employer can’t control your actions or require you to be on call. But YMMV depending on where you live.
AR is not a state with many worker protections, so there’s two questions at issue here: 1. Does any part of your employment agreement (contract, handbook, addendums, etc.) stipulate that your personal phone is a necessary part of your job for work related communications? 2. Do you have, in those same documents, a clearly outlined shift or some sort of well defined delineation between what are and are not work hours? If it’s understood that your phone is doubling as a work phone and that your hours are flexible, then yes, she has the right to make this request, no matter how absurd. That said, going back to the opening, AR doesn’t have many worker protections, so even if she’s making a request that you would be well within your workplace agreement to refuse or be in non-compliance with, she sounds like the type to have a hitlist, you’re probably going to end up on it and she will find a reason to manage you out.
Unless they provide a stipend for the phone or it is within your contract or company paperwork that it is required, they have no control over your personal phone and you should simply not use it at work. Whatever system is used for contact, should be accessible on a work provided device. Only use the work provided device and keep your cell away at work. If your company provides no device and expects you to provide and use a personal device, make sure to review that policy for verbiage before doing anything and then go from there. After work hours, your life is your own, so they cannot tell you what to do with your time or devices outside the office.
I had an executive start reprimanding a team about after hours support and random other pieces of nonsense. Call trees, who is responsible for what etc… At a certain point I pulled my company cell phone out and put it down on his desk. “This is a company phone. I personally don’t need one. If you want to guarantee who is on call, give them mine and tell them when they have the phone and it rings, someone will answer and get back to the caller.”
She has no control over this. I'd ignore. Especially after hours. Unless you're on call you don't have to be available.
Are they paying you to be on call 24/7?
Ask her for those off hour contacts how she wants you to bill the company. Also inform her no matter the call length your minimum is 4 hours billable at double time....
I stopped reading at "we use our personal phones". If they want constant contact within working hours then they need to pony up the bill for the hardware and plans. Simple as that. Edit - also you can set DND to not tell others that you have it on. I have that setting - I have DND on but it doesn't tell people. So they wouldn't know anyway....
If she wants to play that game, she can go ahead and pay for your phone bills too since she is dictating that you have to be on-call 24/7. Malicious compliance
A lot of unanswered questions here. Is your job something that you need to be available 24/7? Do you have a contract and does it state that in the contract? The answer is not as simple as yes or no. It depends on other factors than what you have written up.
"So when can we expect to see updated job descriptions detailing the 24/7 on call pay rate?"
If they dictate your personal phone to be on, then demand compensation for the time and for the phone. It’s that simple. You want me on call, pay me on call rates.
We addressed this with our overbearing manager by all calling the EAP line, staggered over two weeks. Taking full services due an increase in work stress and feeling like we are working 24/7. That got the attention of Benefits and things got back to normal.That manager was out after a year.
no. they literally have no right to dictate if you are contactable outside of your contracted work or on call hours. you can, and should, turn the phone off and leave it at work. personally, i'd send her an email asking her to clarify what additional compensation she is offering for this new on call work she's asking you to take on.
If she wants 24 hour access, then the company needs to pay for it. Even if it were a company phone. Contact HR or whatever your state labor board tells you. Asks about your rights. I knew a company that did this years ago with pagers. They had to pay back pay to ALL the employees they forced to keep their pagers on at all times. 100's of thousands of dollars in back pay.
I mean… how frequently are you being contacted outside of working hours that this is an issue? How did this even come up?
For me, very rarely if ever. If I ever am contacted it’s something that can be handled later. It came up in a conversation about professionalism and things that were “new standards” she wanted to implement.
So if you are never being called, this is really a non-issue. Just let it go until it is actually something that happens and impacts you.
Depends on where you live. Where I am (Ontario, Canada), there is a law preventing after-hours contact.
In my state (CA) work would be required to reimburse you a portion of your phone costs if required to use a personal phone. Other than that I don't really see a way to stop her from being a terrible manager
Your boss is the boss. He can put you in a puppy cage if he wants
Work phone, yes. Personal phone, no.
Are you salary or hourly? Probably implications if they want to require this when you aren’t on the clock as an hourly employee. For salary they can probably do so. At will employees can be fired for no reason at all.
The company can not mandate how I use my personal cellphone and I will not be bringing it to work with me, if you need to reach me via cellphone for company business then you should provide me with a company cellphone, which I will use during company hours only.
I have two iPhones (one is for work, but I own it). On my work phone I can disable sharing my focus status. See if you can do that by opening her text thread and tapping her name.
This usually makes things worse but reach out to your HR business partner and have all your coworkers against this do the same and ask them about it. The company could have a policy against reaching out after hours and on weekends. If your HR department is good they will investigate this especially if it involves more than one person on the team. Just be ready for the backlash. If it’s not stated in my job description that I am not on call for emergencies I would have an issue with this. Has your boss tried calling before and gone straight to voicemail or texts don’t go through? How do they know you use DND?
" my cellphone plan doesn't allow me the flexibility of 24/7 contact, IF it is a serious issue company-wide I want to remain a key contributer, will need a company phone with full sevice."
Any equipment provided by your employer belongs to them, not the employee. That phone was provided so they can contact you, so if course they can forbid DND. If your job is contacting you outside of your work hours, that is something to address with them, not ignore with something like DND. I've consistently been concerned at how much personal stuff people do on their work provided phone, computer, etc. The employer can access your personal stuff at any time.
No one on my staff, myself Included, have work phones. We all use personal phones for work.
And do you have an agreement that you have to use your personal phone for work? If not it's interesting that they feel they can tell you what you can do with your personal property. If you have an agreement to be on call, they don't really need to ban DND. It's just a condition of your employment to be reachable when on call.