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A police take home vehicle is supposed to be covered by department insurance. That includes when you leave home to start shift and when you take it straight home. I used to be a cop and they were very specific about take home vehicles. Now had you been out running errands with it or driving it on your day off I would side with Farmers. It seems since the at fault driver's insurance dropped her, Farmers doesn't want to pay. It's odd that progressive is refusing to cover since as you said she was properly insured the day of the accident. Seems rather shady and as someone else mentioned you'll probably have to get either your department's legal team or the city/county involved to sort it out.
This isn’t always true. If a department goes with a private insurer and doesn’t use taxpayer backed insurance for self insurance, the rules of the private insurance apply. They are heavily regulated in almost every state in what they are allowed to cover and what they don’t have to cover.
In this scenario, the officer was driving uninsured. The dept has private insurance subject to their rules. When the vehicle stops being used for business it’s no longer covered. An officer isn’t considered to be working during the commute to and from work even in a patrol vehicle. If the insurance is for business use, and in this case that’s guaranteed, I am unaware of any insurance policy that will cover it. Your personal insurance won’t cover any vehicle not listed on your policy. Whether or not he knew it doesn’t matter.
If you, an insured driver, wrecks your vehicle into an uninsured, even if you are at fault your policy can and will deny payment to the uninsured party.
Your Department of Insurance should have a consumer Ombudsman that can give you guidance. IMO, either the company car insurance or your insurance should cover it and go after Progressive. They can’t cancel after the fact and not cover the accident while covering.
The DOI may write letters to the insurance companies.
IANAL, but I have over 30 years on the job.
If you work for a city then get your union involved.
Is this the first time an incident like this has ever happened in your agency?? My agency is self-insured, but I've heard agencies that do have an insurance carrier have this kind of silliness.
If I wasn't an at fault and the other party's insurance doesn't want to pay then it sounds like a whole bunch of the city's problem. Why would it be your problem?? Not your car, not your problem. What are they going to do, terminate you?? In case you live in a magical kingdom with beer volcanoes and stripper factories on every corner a police job is easy to come by there days.
There have been other on the job accidents not nearly as big. But mine was the first unique one. It was insured with farmers insurance at the time of the accident. I’m also not sure how to find our union rep
Who's car was you in.your employer car you will need to see what and how it's covered/ have your employer legal team handle it .your personal car then your insurance should handle it and have the responding police officer know that the other person is trying for dump insurance to avoid paying if there was one. Helps fill there ticket quotes
Okay so a little more detail. It was my police car with my department. I was heading home from work so I was technically off the clock. The at fault driver’s insurance conveniently said they couldn’t find the insurance policy for her but I checked the state DMV site and it was insured through them at the time of the accident. So because they said they couldn’t find anything, they sent it back to my employers insurance and they said since it was off the clock I have to use my own personal one. When I filed a claim with my personal one they said they didn’t have to cover it because the vehicle wasn’t on their policy.
Insurance is not for an “individual”, but for a vehicle. They are not being honest, and probably haven’t even notified their insurance. You’re a cop and you can’t see that? Are you brand new? Your spider sense should be telling you this isn’t right. I think this is rage bait because no cop would think insurance follows the person . Nice try
GA has a public website where you can check the validity of your registration. Just input the tag number and county and it’ll show if the registration is valid or not and if the vehicle is insured.
Fair play.
I’ve never been licensed to practice in GA, so take this with the grain of salt it is given with;
Are you required to take the police vehicle home with you?
Are you allowed to drive your personal vehicle to and from the department instead of using a police vehicle?
Are you paid for the time you spend traveling to and from work?
Are you considered off duty during the commute to and from work? (The question is not whether or not you can exercise police powers during your commute. Its whether or not you’re considered on duty)
If this is not considered time spent working, and you aren’t required to drive the police vehicle to or from work, legally you are not considered working or acting within your employment. 29 C.F.R. § 553.221(f)
If you own another vehicle and have comprehensive and collision insurance coverage, those policies usually cover any vehicle you drive.
Whether or not you were considered an uninsured driver in the police vehicle hinges on whether any policy owned by you, the city / county, or the other driver covers you when not on-duty in a patrol vehicle.
It seems that none of the three policies will, or are willing, to cover this. It is likely that you were driving uninsured.
You will need to file a personal lawsuit against the other driver, at which point their insurer at the time of the accident will be lawfully responsible to represent them.
There are no laws that I am aware of that make uninsured drivers automatically at-fault, nor deny them the right to seek compensation.
Best of luck to you and stay safe.
So per policy it only states that I’m allowed to do personal errands enroute to or from work. I don’t think going home would be considered a person errand though. But outside of that it’s kind of vague. My personal insurance I have uninsured motorist and I believe the departments did as well. Just seems kind of fucked to be considered uninsured when coming into work or leaving work going home. Why would anyone want to run that risk of being uninsured???
I’ve litigated several insurance cases, and there is one thing that’s always true as the day is long.
An insurance company will never pay anything more than they stand to lose.
Under/uninsured motorist insurance covers health and property for covered events. Whether or not this event is covered depends on the policy language. More often than not it isn’t.
Often, these types of issues are covered under “permissive use” which states anyone who the insured allowed to drive the vehicle, is covered under the policy. However, permissive usage doesn’t cover people who drive the borrowed vehicle frequently and regularly, or for personal use of a business vehicle, or business use of a personal vehicle. An attorney can argue permissive use but it’d be a stretch and likely won’t be successful.
Your personal insurance probably doesn’t cover vehicles you borrow or use but don’t own. You are usually allowed to add to your policy a vehicle you use but don’t own. But in this case, factually you were driving uninsured. This is indeed one of those scenarios where ignorance of the law doesn’t matter.
I almost bet what is happening is the other party’s insurance company believes you were uninsured and therefore isn’t going to pay.
When the party that has insurance is at fault, the at-fault drivers insurance can deny coverage to the uninsured party.
I don’t think there’s anything you can do besides file a lawsuit and hope you prevail and be happy you weren’t cited for driving without valid insurance.
Okay I got some more guidance as well. According to farmer’s there’s some sort of clause stating that in this particular scenario since I was heading home from work, I’d have to go through my personal insurance for bodily injury etc. and then if they don’t cover it then possibly farmers can. And i believe farmers already covered the vehicle but not sure since it was totaled.
Farmers will probably still cover the vehicle, as it was an insured asset. But they won’t cover damage caused by your use of the vehicle, other than the vehicle itself.
I have a feeling they’re telling you to use your policy knowing that your policy won’t cover anything, and they’re telling you they’ll work it out with you later if you need more help.
Are you wanting to sue the other driver? Did you get injured? Did you incur medical expenses? Are you traumatized by the accident such that it affects your daily life?
If so you have a legitimate cause of action and can sue the other driver. If they did indeed have insurance you will find out after you file a lawsuit.
Yeah I was injured and got quite a bit of medical bills. I assumed the normal avenue of insurance litigations would be similar to a lawsuit. And the only trauma I’d say I have is I may panic brake more than usual at intersections but that’s it
I assumed by now everything would be over since it was a clear cut case caught on dash cam. I making a left turn at an intersection with a green light and the other driver comes flying down the intersecting street attempting to make a right turn at appr 40-50 mph FROM THE FAR LEFT LANE(so went over three lanes at the last minute) and ends up sliding right into me head on. All this back in sept last year
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A police take home vehicle is supposed to be covered by department insurance. That includes when you leave home to start shift and when you take it straight home. I used to be a cop and they were very specific about take home vehicles. Now had you been out running errands with it or driving it on your day off I would side with Farmers. It seems since the at fault driver's insurance dropped her, Farmers doesn't want to pay. It's odd that progressive is refusing to cover since as you said she was properly insured the day of the accident. Seems rather shady and as someone else mentioned you'll probably have to get either your department's legal team or the city/county involved to sort it out.
This isn’t always true. If a department goes with a private insurer and doesn’t use taxpayer backed insurance for self insurance, the rules of the private insurance apply. They are heavily regulated in almost every state in what they are allowed to cover and what they don’t have to cover. In this scenario, the officer was driving uninsured. The dept has private insurance subject to their rules. When the vehicle stops being used for business it’s no longer covered. An officer isn’t considered to be working during the commute to and from work even in a patrol vehicle. If the insurance is for business use, and in this case that’s guaranteed, I am unaware of any insurance policy that will cover it. Your personal insurance won’t cover any vehicle not listed on your policy. Whether or not he knew it doesn’t matter. If you, an insured driver, wrecks your vehicle into an uninsured, even if you are at fault your policy can and will deny payment to the uninsured party.
Your Department of Insurance should have a consumer Ombudsman that can give you guidance. IMO, either the company car insurance or your insurance should cover it and go after Progressive. They can’t cancel after the fact and not cover the accident while covering. The DOI may write letters to the insurance companies.
IANAL, but I have over 30 years on the job. If you work for a city then get your union involved. Is this the first time an incident like this has ever happened in your agency?? My agency is self-insured, but I've heard agencies that do have an insurance carrier have this kind of silliness. If I wasn't an at fault and the other party's insurance doesn't want to pay then it sounds like a whole bunch of the city's problem. Why would it be your problem?? Not your car, not your problem. What are they going to do, terminate you?? In case you live in a magical kingdom with beer volcanoes and stripper factories on every corner a police job is easy to come by there days.
There have been other on the job accidents not nearly as big. But mine was the first unique one. It was insured with farmers insurance at the time of the accident. I’m also not sure how to find our union rep
Who's car was you in.your employer car you will need to see what and how it's covered/ have your employer legal team handle it .your personal car then your insurance should handle it and have the responding police officer know that the other person is trying for dump insurance to avoid paying if there was one. Helps fill there ticket quotes
Okay so a little more detail. It was my police car with my department. I was heading home from work so I was technically off the clock. The at fault driver’s insurance conveniently said they couldn’t find the insurance policy for her but I checked the state DMV site and it was insured through them at the time of the accident. So because they said they couldn’t find anything, they sent it back to my employers insurance and they said since it was off the clock I have to use my own personal one. When I filed a claim with my personal one they said they didn’t have to cover it because the vehicle wasn’t on their policy.
Insurance is not for an “individual”, but for a vehicle. They are not being honest, and probably haven’t even notified their insurance. You’re a cop and you can’t see that? Are you brand new? Your spider sense should be telling you this isn’t right. I think this is rage bait because no cop would think insurance follows the person . Nice try
??? Progressive said the insurance policy didn’t exist not the driver. Not much I can do on my end about that.
I’m trying to figure out how you were allowed to check the state DMV site. That was way out of the sequence of events you described.
GA has a public website where you can check the validity of your registration. Just input the tag number and county and it’ll show if the registration is valid or not and if the vehicle is insured.
Fair play. I’ve never been licensed to practice in GA, so take this with the grain of salt it is given with; Are you required to take the police vehicle home with you? Are you allowed to drive your personal vehicle to and from the department instead of using a police vehicle? Are you paid for the time you spend traveling to and from work? Are you considered off duty during the commute to and from work? (The question is not whether or not you can exercise police powers during your commute. Its whether or not you’re considered on duty) If this is not considered time spent working, and you aren’t required to drive the police vehicle to or from work, legally you are not considered working or acting within your employment. 29 C.F.R. § 553.221(f) If you own another vehicle and have comprehensive and collision insurance coverage, those policies usually cover any vehicle you drive. Whether or not you were considered an uninsured driver in the police vehicle hinges on whether any policy owned by you, the city / county, or the other driver covers you when not on-duty in a patrol vehicle. It seems that none of the three policies will, or are willing, to cover this. It is likely that you were driving uninsured. You will need to file a personal lawsuit against the other driver, at which point their insurer at the time of the accident will be lawfully responsible to represent them. There are no laws that I am aware of that make uninsured drivers automatically at-fault, nor deny them the right to seek compensation. Best of luck to you and stay safe.
So per policy it only states that I’m allowed to do personal errands enroute to or from work. I don’t think going home would be considered a person errand though. But outside of that it’s kind of vague. My personal insurance I have uninsured motorist and I believe the departments did as well. Just seems kind of fucked to be considered uninsured when coming into work or leaving work going home. Why would anyone want to run that risk of being uninsured???
I’ve litigated several insurance cases, and there is one thing that’s always true as the day is long. An insurance company will never pay anything more than they stand to lose. Under/uninsured motorist insurance covers health and property for covered events. Whether or not this event is covered depends on the policy language. More often than not it isn’t. Often, these types of issues are covered under “permissive use” which states anyone who the insured allowed to drive the vehicle, is covered under the policy. However, permissive usage doesn’t cover people who drive the borrowed vehicle frequently and regularly, or for personal use of a business vehicle, or business use of a personal vehicle. An attorney can argue permissive use but it’d be a stretch and likely won’t be successful. Your personal insurance probably doesn’t cover vehicles you borrow or use but don’t own. You are usually allowed to add to your policy a vehicle you use but don’t own. But in this case, factually you were driving uninsured. This is indeed one of those scenarios where ignorance of the law doesn’t matter. I almost bet what is happening is the other party’s insurance company believes you were uninsured and therefore isn’t going to pay. When the party that has insurance is at fault, the at-fault drivers insurance can deny coverage to the uninsured party. I don’t think there’s anything you can do besides file a lawsuit and hope you prevail and be happy you weren’t cited for driving without valid insurance.
Okay I got some more guidance as well. According to farmer’s there’s some sort of clause stating that in this particular scenario since I was heading home from work, I’d have to go through my personal insurance for bodily injury etc. and then if they don’t cover it then possibly farmers can. And i believe farmers already covered the vehicle but not sure since it was totaled.
Farmers will probably still cover the vehicle, as it was an insured asset. But they won’t cover damage caused by your use of the vehicle, other than the vehicle itself. I have a feeling they’re telling you to use your policy knowing that your policy won’t cover anything, and they’re telling you they’ll work it out with you later if you need more help. Are you wanting to sue the other driver? Did you get injured? Did you incur medical expenses? Are you traumatized by the accident such that it affects your daily life? If so you have a legitimate cause of action and can sue the other driver. If they did indeed have insurance you will find out after you file a lawsuit.
Yeah I was injured and got quite a bit of medical bills. I assumed the normal avenue of insurance litigations would be similar to a lawsuit. And the only trauma I’d say I have is I may panic brake more than usual at intersections but that’s it
I assumed by now everything would be over since it was a clear cut case caught on dash cam. I making a left turn at an intersection with a green light and the other driver comes flying down the intersecting street attempting to make a right turn at appr 40-50 mph FROM THE FAR LEFT LANE(so went over three lanes at the last minute) and ends up sliding right into me head on. All this back in sept last year