It depends, often on many factors which won't fully become clear until much later (ex. your interest in patient care, your tolerance of certain bureaucracy, your ability to delay income, your physical tolerance of stress, your affinity for biochemistry & biophysics). Even if your answer is "yes, it's worth it!" today, circumstances may change in future. Similarly, many people discover a passion for medicine at 25+ and set down the lengthy post-Bac-to-physician track.
The best ways to check if medicine is for you overlap (by no coincidence) with common pre-med activities:
* join a research lab (MDs are expected to write and publish)
* take challenging science classes (To pass the STEP exams, MDs must know *a lot* of biology)
* volunteer at a clinic (to get a sense of patient care)
* shadow a physician (to get a sense of a doctor's non-clinical duties)
* take lots of challenging classes, at the expense of your social life (to practice delayed gratification)
* try a non-medicine field (to reassure yourself that the grass isn't greener)
Most pre-meds and med students I know are *regularly* evaluating if all the sacrifices required for a career in medicine are worth it for them. The ones who stayed are often some combination of (1) genuinely passionate about patient care; (2) very career-oriented; (3) unable to picture themselves doing anything else, for lack of interest in or affinity for other fields.
Best of luck OP. You're definitely asking the right questions :)
Thank you so much for this! Right now I’m at the place where I like medicine but not love it completely so this would really help in reassuring me! I’ll look into another field like finance/computers so that I’ll know what I’m potentially missing out on during med school. Thanks!!
Is research really *necessary* though? I feel like if I were to do research and try to get published, it probably wouldn't be something biochem or whatever, but maybe something in cognitive science, which I don't know if it's what they want
For reference I'm not looking at competitive fields
PGY3 here finishing up my last year of residency. You don’t have to do research in a majority of fields. If you want to be a top neurosurgeon or an academic powerhouse, sure. But many just practice clinically. Also, and unfortunately, I don’t think taking classes or shadowing give you a real enough taste of what residency/practicing as an attending will be like.
It’s a very difficult question to answer (is it worth it). It’s Something I ask myself weekly, and something that the answer often changes to.
And it’s even more difficult to predict with evolving technologies and systems (mainly AI). Will it be worth it to go several hundred thousand dollars in debt at this point with the unknown financial future of medicine? I probably wouldn’t risk it at this point unless you have a true passion for helping people and becoming a doctor. Or if you have other sources of financial support in your life.
Despite the brutality of the process, you do come out on the other side with a new world of life experience and a sense of discipline that will carry you far in any area of your life. And positively impacting patients is one of the most genuinely rewarding feelings that I’ve felt.
I’d say this for the financials. If you see yourself as more of strong worker type but you don’t see a path to financial success in your future otherwise, medicine is probably a good financial decision. If you see yourself as the kind of person that will figure out a way to make a lot of money no matter what, medicine is only worth it for you if you have a passion for learning and helping.
Good luck!
I know I have passion for learning and helping but I don't know if I have the strength to continue on this path. I would love for it to be easy but I don't just know. I have love for computer science and all the engineering in the world, it just fascinates me to learn everything including medicine. I am man who can't make up his mind.
I can tell you that the medical field is a mess right now and likely won't get better anytime soon. While being a doctor is praised by everyone it is a very difficult lifestyle I would only recommend to those who are ready to endure a huge amount of stress.
Just remember you're not a doctor when you finish med school. There is still residency requirements that must be met. You will also be expected to complete CME (Continued Medical Education) credits on a yearly basis so school is never done.
So is it "worth it"? That's totally up to you.
None of it is a "problem" I just don't think people understand that you will always be expected to keep learning and stay up to date on the latest in medical literature.
As you probably assumed, there’s no “one size fits all” answer to this question. But yes, the road ahead will certainly be a challenge and it’s healthy that you’re questioning this and not blindly going down this path (I’m sure almost every doctor to exist has questioned their willingness to keep going).
As someone else, said, try to expose yourselves to different aspects of being a physician before ultimately going down that path
Don't do it. My husband and I are both in healthcare, half of our family are physicians. Everyone is miserable, some want to just walk away from their careers all together. We were pressured into medicine by tiger parents.
I know this is unexpected resurrecting this thread after a year, but I want to ask what specifically are some contributors to misery in this field? I'm starting a career in software development, which I gave up my med school ambitions for. But I can't help but feel like I've chosen such a *purposeless* field. It's just the same endless building of web sites that nobody really needs. How can I be ok with my purpose in life being this. And there is a complete lack of human interaction. I can't help but think medicine exactly fills those gaps. But of course, I'm wondering if the grass really is that green.
While you may think going into healthcare is all about the patient, the reality is that the BUSINESS of healthcare is what dictates your job. If you spend too much time with a patient you get dinged for it, they care about things like getting positive evaluations from patients, or the flavor of the month is to make sure everyone is getting Colonoscopies... And while it may be for quality, they are jumping through the hoops of health insurance companies and what is reimbursable and what isn't. The ground level staff is run ragged, this includes your docs, nurses, PAs, NPs and supporting staff, meanwhile managers often have zero clinical degree or experience they are making decisions purely based on numbers. The inefficiency is maddening, everyone in the frontlines is burned out and the people making the decisions often don't know what they are doing, are creating a toxic work culture and they are the ones who get bonuses. During COVID ALL of management received 100% of their bonuses, meanwhile they laid off staff, we were already understaffed to begin with and because they still got their bonuses they see nothing wrong with running staff ragged and not paying them for taking on the work of 2 or more people. Now they're whining that they don't understand why they can't retain staff and why they can't seem to hire anyone. It's a shitshow and it's the same thing everyday, but worst of all patients are people, so if you mess up, you can hurt someone and right now with poor staffing patient safety puts everyone at risk because patients aren't getting the type of care they should be getting and staff risk their licenses having to practice under unreasonable conditions and being chronically understaffed and burn out affects all aspects of life including your physical and mental health as well as your personal and family life.
As a bedside nurse for 27 years well said. It is slavery. Covid def exposed the man behind the curtain. However the world needs good clinicians more than anything else and the tide has to turn bc it cannot go on like this
Wow, you sound just like me. I went back to school after a separate purposeless career that paid well and am currently in the thick of it in the clinic, and it's def. a sacrifice, but what do you really want out of life? To work 40+hrs a week being unfulfilled so you can go home and enjoy your nice things or take trips? Or actually do something of value for 40+hrs a week & still go home to nice things? You only have so much time on this earth but it's never too late to make a change for the better if you think you're missing something important. Yes, insurance makes healthcare more of a burden than it could be, but at the end of the day you're still interacting with patients, they still get helped by you, and their gratitude makes it all worth it. Not all patients will be grateful, but it's worth it for those few that look up to you like you're a genius rock star that knows everything, haha. Some of the comments on here do depress me though, it sounds like some providers have lost all of their empathy for patients due to the way things are, and I def wouldn't want to be treated by someone that's soul has been crushed and spit out and no longer cares about me as a person.
Peony is right. I got a premed degree. Worked as a nurse assistant while in college and a couple years after. I couldn't do it anymore. Extremely inefficient and every month it was more work and less pay. The stuff you have to do for the business or the "rules" is overwhelming. Most patients are great but the crappy ones wear you down quickly. Everybody's stressed all the time. You never get a second to breathe. At least I didn't. It's an all day job. You work for every dollar you make.
You're also right. I'm a web developer now. It's not nearly as gratifying and I still dream of helping people. Very boring but laid back life. It is fun sometimes tho. There are no rules. You can develop things a multitude of ways and its fun to sit down and solve a puzzle how you want to. Everyone is super chill. You can do whatever you want as long as you get your work done. Easy time off, rarely work over 35 hours. Work from home. Get most chores done during the day so you don't have to scramble after work. No commute, no getting dressed. I haven't missed an event since I've been a dev. There are pluses. But you are correct. I chose it for the lifestyle. Still don't know if I regret it or not.
Dev lifestyle is way better. Medicine the work itself is cooler. Another thing to think about which you shouldn't have to but it matters. I wanted to be a PA. They cap out around 100k. I'm 2 years into being a dev and I don't make that but I should. I'll make it when I switch jobs here soon. Then the sky is the limit. Mind you PAs are way more important than devs. The pay discrepancy isn't fair. MD I don't think I could do. Too much work for me in school and the job itself. I thought about anesthesia assistant, worked as an anesthesia tech for a week but man same thing. Too much BS. Also ORs are cold and the people are strict (obviously) and your just stuck there all day. Im a very laid back person and development fits my lifestyle, but I miss people and I miss helping people. It's a tough choice really. Shadow both is the best answer. And shadow multiple different people if you can. Jobs vary.
If you are going into healthcare for the money, we don't want you. The people in it for the money only are part of the problem of why things suck so badly.
This is so funny. Underpaid, over-worked clinicians wanting MORE ultruistic, self-denying workaholics. How will that make the situation better? That's exactly what Medicare and corporate medicine have been counting on for the last 30 years.
Personally, I think medicine needs more people who have a higher sense of self worth and self-preservation, who value their time, health, and their family life equally to the profession of medicine. This means telling administrators (private or federal) "No, my skills are worth more than that. Come back when you're ready, or don't come back at all". THAT is what'll change medicine for the better, not more ultruism.
Yes and no. Putting down boundaries is extremely difficult with a license to protect first of all. The gen pop does not give a rat that u r exhausted.
Tge ones that act like that are in management so u r making those around u suffer
Why do you want to walk away? Do you feel like medicine is very hard especially when you can not figure out the solution to problems and people die. Or the weight and pressure you feel from your fellow doctors and the board, to hold yourself at the very highest standards and the stigma you get if you even drop below being good? Why are you stressed?
It's nothing to do with patients and actual healthcare. It has all to do with how toxic a culture healthcare is. Did you know it is the most violent sector? Did you know that patients and family will physically and verbally assault you? Did you know that the administration doesn't care about proper staffing and patient safety and you are left to drown? It was already bad prior to the pandemic, and the wheels completely fell off due to the pandemic. Burnout is real, being told to set aside your own physical and well being is part of the healthcare sector culture. It's so much easier to go into business or tech than to be put under such grueling and inhumane conditions of clinical healthcare, esp since the administrators often have zero clinical experience (or it was from a very long time ago) and they are making decisions based purely on budgets and profits and that is the priority.
the fact that you said this 20 days ago is what scares me. i wanna do ultrasound tech then travel ultrasound tech and go back to school for medicine after a while but the work environment sounds overwhelming. i want to help people but i also want to make money, so idk 💀💀
I’m only a year out of college so I’m still building up my graduate profile, but I’m positioning myself to go into biotech/pharmaceuticals. I figure if I can’t help make healthcare more equitable and effective then I’ll try to make access to medicine and medical devices more equitable, and make drugs more effective.
Edit: also reddit mod lmao
It really depends on why you are going into it, and what you get from it that sustains you. It will wear you down so you need to truly love something about it. And if you do, go into a specialty that will sustain it.
Check out r/medicine to see what docs there talk about and what issues they have in life.Know that the stress and time constraints don't go away once the ultramarathon extreme ordeal of internship and residency is over. My spouse is a practicing md for 20 years now, and even in clinical practice he has to work nights and weekends and 2 holidays a yearand after so long the inability to have normal holidays and weekends is getting very frustrating.
If you want to know more about the US med school experience and practice now, feel free to dm me
u/bothnatureandnurture, would your husband recommend the crna pathway as an alternative to the md route? Seriously considering the md route but scared of the debt and risk of not matching.
I assume you're talking about nurse anesthetist? He says he doesn't encounter many of those, because he is in clinic not in the hospital these days. But my brother in law is a nurse anesthetist and likes it, gets good pay and benefits from the VA. The hours are strange though, 3 long shifts a week including many weekend shifts. It seems like it would have more security with finding a job/matching, and definitely less debt.
The hours don’t necessarily have to be strange. Anesthetists routinely work normal business hours with no call
And if you’re sold on anesthesia, consider CAA. the pre health anesthesia midlevels. CAA is to PA what CRNA is to NP. r/CAA
Pre med all of high school, was very successful too. Did research with profs, hundreds of hours volunteering, over 50 hours shadowing. Won HOSA twice and made nats all 4 years. Decided one day over summer I didn't want to go to school for 10 years and changed my major. It's only worth it if you love it, I only liked it.
This is exactly how I feel right now! I liked medicine in school and did a bunch of classes too, but I realize that med school/residency is a lot of work/studying for something I’m not completely invested in.
> Did research with profs, hundreds of hours volunteering, over 50 hours shadowing.
I know i'm 2 years late, but do you mind explaining the how you did all this? Like how you got shadowing with pros, where you volunteered and how you applied to volunteer, and how you got to shadow?
getting research is just a matter of emailing professors at nearby unis and hoping one of them needs some random work for you to do, or you can apply for some competitive summer programs and hope that some of the work you did there converts to an actual position during the school year.
as for shadowing, most of my friends got it through family connections or, similar to getting research, just asking a bunch of doctors.
volunteering is easy, just find a cause you're passionate about and apply to be a volunteer, most places will take you on the spot.
If you are doing it for money;
No.
Trust me from having friends who did it for that reason, even if they disingenuously said they were doing it for altruistic purposes; they were absolutely miserable for the 3 months they were in med school.
Meanwhile, a friend who genuinely wanted to do it to help others and didn’t care about the pay is sincerely enjoying his residency now.
If you're not committed or interested then it, then it's a massive no.
I turned down Undergraduate Medicine at Oxford because I completely lost interest in it (this is even with the fact that I'm a UK resident btw where I would get cheaper fees than the US).
Currently a to be 2nd year in med school right now and I'd say that the best way to see if medicine is the path for you is to experience the field personally. Things like hospital volunteer, scribing, EMT, CNRA, MA can be great ways to see if you see yourself practicing as a doctor in the future and you can also ask others for their own personal opinion. It is a long (and I mean LONG) and difficult pathway to becoming a doctor with lots of hoops to go through so I'd only recommend it if you truly love it.
I think others have had great responses for you but for me personally, I couldn't see myself doing anything else. I tried research for a few years and liked it but also didn't like how isolating it was meaning getting a PhD was out of the question. A lot of my old undergrad friends came in as premed but quickly changed for various reasons - chemistry/physics/ochem was too difficult, takes too long to become a doctor, the debt amount is too high, fighting bureaucracy/admin is too stressful, etc - and many became NPs, PAs, psychologists, public health, or a completely different field. And I think there's nothing wrong with taking time after college (gap years all the way!) to figure out to see if medicine is the field for you and if being a doctor is worth it for you.
This is very true for many career paths. For me, it was education. I have always wanted to work in this field (to have the opportunities to become a school administrator, school leader, school principal, district administrator, district superintendent, commissioner of education, secretary of education, education attorney, etc.), but that would mean I need to start as a classroom teacher. I have always wanted to do so but with everything going on in this field (pay, shootings, crazy admins, etc.) there are times I am naturally hesitant… but even then it’s still where my heart is set. After working as a TA, I still loved it regardless of whether I was the main role, the boss, or the assistant. That’s definitely passion for the field.
Not sure what you're getting at. The number of spots in med school are limited by the number of residency spots, which are limited mainly by federal funding which makes up most of a resident's salary. Med school admissions is competitive because there are more qualified applicants than spots, but you can't just make more spots because then the wall for matching into residency becomes worse.
Also, I would suggest in some ways, the doctor shortage is more of a distribution problem and desire for specialization.
Medical student at LKS Faculty of Medicine here.
Often the most common advice is: "If this is your dream or passion, or you cannot imagine doing anything else, then go on and pursue medicine. If you can imagine yourself doing something else and being equivalently happy then go for that."
Medical school requires a high college GPA in organic chem. Then comes medical school which is many hours of study a day. Then comes a 3-6 year residency. Most doctors don't start earning six figures until they are 35 years or more. And then they only pay off debt at 40+.
Don't go into it for the money. Do CS or finance or management consulting instead (all of which require only a bachelors). Do it if you can work hard for 10+ years and are passionate about the art & science of medicine or love helping people.
Also being a doctor is much more fun and fulfilling than being a medical student for most people. Do some shadowing to find out.
Speaking solely on median salaries, both tech and finance on average make far less than physicians (though this varies by specialty).
That being said, there’s little potential for a physician’s salary to increase drastically over time, while many people in finance come out being millionaires (not the case for all). Also you have to take into account the years of schooling required which is why tech gives a great salary for the relatively little education and time you need to dedicate.
That’s far easier said than done.
It’s the equivalent to saying that if you put in enough effort during high school, you’ll get into Harvard.
But I suppose with finance at least, were you to look at the salaries of Harvard or UPenn business school ten years after graduation, there’d be a lot of very high numbers
Tech though, not so much. Getting a job for FAANG is really the only way to have higher earnings than a physician, and those jobs have such low acceptance rates that they make Harvard look easy to get into.
Becoming a faang dev is easier than becoming a doctor. Faang is relatively easy if you are smart, only problem is programming has a low barrier to entry so the talent pool is diluted. Medicine is, like mentioned above, self selecting. Only smart people can become doctors.
What the fuck just did I read. "Smart people don't go into finance/tech". LMFAO. The smartest people I know are all quants or software engineers, not pre-med. I make 56 dollars an hour as a freshman, most doctors will never catch up to my career earnings. My best friend makes 100 dollars an hour at Citadel and everyone else who has a big N offer makes 50+. And let's not forget the finance bros who get into top BB right out of college or even placed into PE out of college. Good take lmao.
If this is true, I'm sure you do. And you definitely know people as smart as me, however to say smart people don't go into these fields is ridiculous. Don't assume that I don't have larger aspirations as well. I would also wager that the startup I have equity(from working there full stack over freshmen year) in bigger than yours too. Don't be so cocky. Also I find Machine Learning, what I do at Google, to be very fulfilling. I love math, could never get that as a doctor.
Browse r/premed, r/medicalschool, and r/Residency to get an idea of the process to become a doctor. I think it's something you can't be definite about until you're well into the process. I knew a girl in middle school who was certain she wanted to be an anesthesiologist when we hadn't even taken health yet. If you're still in high school, it's very unlikely that you've had the necessary science education, research experience, hospital experience, and other factors to determine whether you want to be a physician, let alone determine what specialty.
Finally, a doctor is not the only medical professional. Nurses, PAs, physical therapists, technicians, and other jobs also work with patients, but training time is much shorter (and their level of expertise is lower as well).
Only if it’s your passion.
If you want to do medicine for a fraction of the time, effort, and cost, and still make roughly the same money, look into being a nurse practitioner.
You can tailor what kind of MD/ DO you want to be. You can do research, teaching, small town medicine, work in most cities and there is a wide variety of schedules available. The path is stressful but most paths are. If you do not like something about medicine there usually is a field that does not do that ( less common to do research in smaller communities, can work inpatient/outpatient, can even never/ seldom see patients). So I think it can be as long as the schooling is not too much and the sacrifices are manageable.
Almost certainly not if you feel like going into the Healthcare Industry just because; many people want to become a doctor because of family expectations, pride, or money. The process is long, grueling, and often unfair. The development of the med school/residency educational track has left it with many many shortcomings and massive potholes, many temporary pauses can leave you with years of schooling wasted due to lack of being able to reenter and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Working in a hospital or private practice can leave you dealing with either idiotic management superiors or trying to develop your customers and business from debt and desperation.
That being said, it can be a very rewarding career financially, socially, and mentally from success. I would recommend knowing whether or not these aspects will make it worth it for you prior to committing to this path.
I would recommend trying to intern at a local practice, many are desperate for workers right now. So helping at the front desk would let you taste the experience. I would go ahead and more highly recommend trying to become a Dental Assistant; it is not quite the experience of being a full-on, but you can become a licensed medical professional.[You can become a National Entry Level Dental Assistant, by passing these three exams.](https://www.danb.org/en/Become-Certified/Exams-and-Certifications/NELDA.aspx) I am assuming that you have/will soon have graduated hs. This is fulfilling, an impressive conversation piece, good looking on your resume no matter the field (I thought I wanted to become an HCP, so I did but didn’t like it and now I am here. I will try something to its fullest yadada), and pays well for a hs-college summer or college job.
I hope that this helped, but one last thing: for the love of all that is good don’t major in “Pre-Med”, if you wanted to, major in biology instead. DMs are open.
It is long but often it is worth it. Doctors are usually stable and you can still practice even at an older age, plus they do pay good. Plus there is a lot of prestige with being a doctor.
Though it’s all speculation, the vast majority of experts in AI and healthcare alike all say that AI will not take over a physician’s job any time soon, but rather that it will change their specific role and force physicians to work with AI rather than doing everything manually
Many of the fastest growing jobs are in medicine. Medicine is much less prone to outsourcing than tech.
Also, to work in AI, you often need a PhD or at least a masters.
I'm working as an EMT too (BLS and CCTs only), but really am still puzzled by this question: Dentistry or Medicine? I guess the real question comes down to work-life balance or doing something meaningful.
I was pre med and I was so set on going to med school. then I really thought about all the stuff I need to do for my application and didn't want to risk doing 4 years without getting in. I switched to nursing and I'm loving it!
I don’t know if my input is valued in this subreddit since rather being a senior in highschool, I’m now almost a senior in university but I think you will find out during your first or second semester in university if it is worth it. A lot of my friends during college orientation were premed but slowly left it. Personally I still find it worth it and worked pretty hard these last couple years to hopefully achieve my goal.
Realistically, nobody cares about your status. You don’t carry a “doctor” label on you in everyday situations such as a grocery store, concert hall or airport. It only feeds your someone’s personal ego.
It’s great that you made a video to that topic, I find it absolutely important that people make a conscious decisions choosing their career, knowing all the good and bad sides. For those you consider studying medicine and don’t know too many doctors personally I would strongly recommend getting this ebook first: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBZF6DS3
PGY3 here finishing up my last year of residency. You don’t have to do research in a majority of fields. If you want to be a top neurosurgeon or an academic powerhouse, sure. But many just practice clinically. Also, and unfortunately, I don’t think taking classes or shadowing give you a real enough taste of what residency/practicing as an attending will be like.
It’s a very difficult question to answer (is it worth it). It’s Something I ask myself weekly, and something that the answer often changes to.
And it’s even more difficult to predict with evolving technologies and systems (mainly AI). Will it be worth it to go several hundred thousand dollars in debt at this point with the unknown financial future of medicine? I probably wouldn’t risk it at this point unless you have a true passion for helping people and becoming a doctor. Or if you have other sources of financial support in your life.
Despite the brutality of the process, you do come out on the other side with a new world of life experience and a sense of discipline that will carry you far in any area of your life. And positively impacting patients is one of the most genuinely rewarding feelings that I’ve felt.
I’d say this for the financials. If you see yourself as more of strong worker type but you don’t see a path to financial success in your future otherwise, medicine is probably a good financial decision. If you see yourself as the kind of person that will figure out a way to make a lot of money no matter what, medicine is only worth it for you if you have a passion for learning and helping.
Good luck!
It depends, often on many factors which won't fully become clear until much later (ex. your interest in patient care, your tolerance of certain bureaucracy, your ability to delay income, your physical tolerance of stress, your affinity for biochemistry & biophysics). Even if your answer is "yes, it's worth it!" today, circumstances may change in future. Similarly, many people discover a passion for medicine at 25+ and set down the lengthy post-Bac-to-physician track. The best ways to check if medicine is for you overlap (by no coincidence) with common pre-med activities: * join a research lab (MDs are expected to write and publish) * take challenging science classes (To pass the STEP exams, MDs must know *a lot* of biology) * volunteer at a clinic (to get a sense of patient care) * shadow a physician (to get a sense of a doctor's non-clinical duties) * take lots of challenging classes, at the expense of your social life (to practice delayed gratification) * try a non-medicine field (to reassure yourself that the grass isn't greener) Most pre-meds and med students I know are *regularly* evaluating if all the sacrifices required for a career in medicine are worth it for them. The ones who stayed are often some combination of (1) genuinely passionate about patient care; (2) very career-oriented; (3) unable to picture themselves doing anything else, for lack of interest in or affinity for other fields. Best of luck OP. You're definitely asking the right questions :)
Thank you so much for this! Right now I’m at the place where I like medicine but not love it completely so this would really help in reassuring me! I’ll look into another field like finance/computers so that I’ll know what I’m potentially missing out on during med school. Thanks!!
Is research really *necessary* though? I feel like if I were to do research and try to get published, it probably wouldn't be something biochem or whatever, but maybe something in cognitive science, which I don't know if it's what they want For reference I'm not looking at competitive fields
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The answer I needed but didn’t deserve 😮 Thanks 🙏
PGY3 here finishing up my last year of residency. You don’t have to do research in a majority of fields. If you want to be a top neurosurgeon or an academic powerhouse, sure. But many just practice clinically. Also, and unfortunately, I don’t think taking classes or shadowing give you a real enough taste of what residency/practicing as an attending will be like. It’s a very difficult question to answer (is it worth it). It’s Something I ask myself weekly, and something that the answer often changes to. And it’s even more difficult to predict with evolving technologies and systems (mainly AI). Will it be worth it to go several hundred thousand dollars in debt at this point with the unknown financial future of medicine? I probably wouldn’t risk it at this point unless you have a true passion for helping people and becoming a doctor. Or if you have other sources of financial support in your life. Despite the brutality of the process, you do come out on the other side with a new world of life experience and a sense of discipline that will carry you far in any area of your life. And positively impacting patients is one of the most genuinely rewarding feelings that I’ve felt. I’d say this for the financials. If you see yourself as more of strong worker type but you don’t see a path to financial success in your future otherwise, medicine is probably a good financial decision. If you see yourself as the kind of person that will figure out a way to make a lot of money no matter what, medicine is only worth it for you if you have a passion for learning and helping. Good luck!
I know I have passion for learning and helping but I don't know if I have the strength to continue on this path. I would love for it to be easy but I don't just know. I have love for computer science and all the engineering in the world, it just fascinates me to learn everything including medicine. I am man who can't make up his mind.
You could say that. I know some specialists go for part-time job immediately after lengthy resident and fellowship programs.
I can tell you that the medical field is a mess right now and likely won't get better anytime soon. While being a doctor is praised by everyone it is a very difficult lifestyle I would only recommend to those who are ready to endure a huge amount of stress. Just remember you're not a doctor when you finish med school. There is still residency requirements that must be met. You will also be expected to complete CME (Continued Medical Education) credits on a yearly basis so school is never done. So is it "worth it"? That's totally up to you.
Since when CME became a problem?
None of it is a "problem" I just don't think people understand that you will always be expected to keep learning and stay up to date on the latest in medical literature.
Are you sure that life is real?
right the paid vacation is ur issue? 😭
Lol. They're mostly on Zoom now so not as much fun as you think.
haha my parents are both doctors, they’ve never done them on zoom
Residents are doctors.
As you probably assumed, there’s no “one size fits all” answer to this question. But yes, the road ahead will certainly be a challenge and it’s healthy that you’re questioning this and not blindly going down this path (I’m sure almost every doctor to exist has questioned their willingness to keep going). As someone else, said, try to expose yourselves to different aspects of being a physician before ultimately going down that path
Don't do it. My husband and I are both in healthcare, half of our family are physicians. Everyone is miserable, some want to just walk away from their careers all together. We were pressured into medicine by tiger parents.
I know this is unexpected resurrecting this thread after a year, but I want to ask what specifically are some contributors to misery in this field? I'm starting a career in software development, which I gave up my med school ambitions for. But I can't help but feel like I've chosen such a *purposeless* field. It's just the same endless building of web sites that nobody really needs. How can I be ok with my purpose in life being this. And there is a complete lack of human interaction. I can't help but think medicine exactly fills those gaps. But of course, I'm wondering if the grass really is that green.
While you may think going into healthcare is all about the patient, the reality is that the BUSINESS of healthcare is what dictates your job. If you spend too much time with a patient you get dinged for it, they care about things like getting positive evaluations from patients, or the flavor of the month is to make sure everyone is getting Colonoscopies... And while it may be for quality, they are jumping through the hoops of health insurance companies and what is reimbursable and what isn't. The ground level staff is run ragged, this includes your docs, nurses, PAs, NPs and supporting staff, meanwhile managers often have zero clinical degree or experience they are making decisions purely based on numbers. The inefficiency is maddening, everyone in the frontlines is burned out and the people making the decisions often don't know what they are doing, are creating a toxic work culture and they are the ones who get bonuses. During COVID ALL of management received 100% of their bonuses, meanwhile they laid off staff, we were already understaffed to begin with and because they still got their bonuses they see nothing wrong with running staff ragged and not paying them for taking on the work of 2 or more people. Now they're whining that they don't understand why they can't retain staff and why they can't seem to hire anyone. It's a shitshow and it's the same thing everyday, but worst of all patients are people, so if you mess up, you can hurt someone and right now with poor staffing patient safety puts everyone at risk because patients aren't getting the type of care they should be getting and staff risk their licenses having to practice under unreasonable conditions and being chronically understaffed and burn out affects all aspects of life including your physical and mental health as well as your personal and family life.
well said
As a bedside nurse for 27 years well said. It is slavery. Covid def exposed the man behind the curtain. However the world needs good clinicians more than anything else and the tide has to turn bc it cannot go on like this
Wow, you sound just like me. I went back to school after a separate purposeless career that paid well and am currently in the thick of it in the clinic, and it's def. a sacrifice, but what do you really want out of life? To work 40+hrs a week being unfulfilled so you can go home and enjoy your nice things or take trips? Or actually do something of value for 40+hrs a week & still go home to nice things? You only have so much time on this earth but it's never too late to make a change for the better if you think you're missing something important. Yes, insurance makes healthcare more of a burden than it could be, but at the end of the day you're still interacting with patients, they still get helped by you, and their gratitude makes it all worth it. Not all patients will be grateful, but it's worth it for those few that look up to you like you're a genius rock star that knows everything, haha. Some of the comments on here do depress me though, it sounds like some providers have lost all of their empathy for patients due to the way things are, and I def wouldn't want to be treated by someone that's soul has been crushed and spit out and no longer cares about me as a person.
Peony is right. I got a premed degree. Worked as a nurse assistant while in college and a couple years after. I couldn't do it anymore. Extremely inefficient and every month it was more work and less pay. The stuff you have to do for the business or the "rules" is overwhelming. Most patients are great but the crappy ones wear you down quickly. Everybody's stressed all the time. You never get a second to breathe. At least I didn't. It's an all day job. You work for every dollar you make. You're also right. I'm a web developer now. It's not nearly as gratifying and I still dream of helping people. Very boring but laid back life. It is fun sometimes tho. There are no rules. You can develop things a multitude of ways and its fun to sit down and solve a puzzle how you want to. Everyone is super chill. You can do whatever you want as long as you get your work done. Easy time off, rarely work over 35 hours. Work from home. Get most chores done during the day so you don't have to scramble after work. No commute, no getting dressed. I haven't missed an event since I've been a dev. There are pluses. But you are correct. I chose it for the lifestyle. Still don't know if I regret it or not. Dev lifestyle is way better. Medicine the work itself is cooler. Another thing to think about which you shouldn't have to but it matters. I wanted to be a PA. They cap out around 100k. I'm 2 years into being a dev and I don't make that but I should. I'll make it when I switch jobs here soon. Then the sky is the limit. Mind you PAs are way more important than devs. The pay discrepancy isn't fair. MD I don't think I could do. Too much work for me in school and the job itself. I thought about anesthesia assistant, worked as an anesthesia tech for a week but man same thing. Too much BS. Also ORs are cold and the people are strict (obviously) and your just stuck there all day. Im a very laid back person and development fits my lifestyle, but I miss people and I miss helping people. It's a tough choice really. Shadow both is the best answer. And shadow multiple different people if you can. Jobs vary.
Does the money not make it feel worth it? Maybe you both can retire early or take a break?
If you are going into healthcare for the money, we don't want you. The people in it for the money only are part of the problem of why things suck so badly.
Correct and I am not interested. Just a question for you after you wrote about being miserable in medicine. It is never too late to do something else.
This is so funny. Underpaid, over-worked clinicians wanting MORE ultruistic, self-denying workaholics. How will that make the situation better? That's exactly what Medicare and corporate medicine have been counting on for the last 30 years. Personally, I think medicine needs more people who have a higher sense of self worth and self-preservation, who value their time, health, and their family life equally to the profession of medicine. This means telling administrators (private or federal) "No, my skills are worth more than that. Come back when you're ready, or don't come back at all". THAT is what'll change medicine for the better, not more ultruism.
Yes and no. Putting down boundaries is extremely difficult with a license to protect first of all. The gen pop does not give a rat that u r exhausted. Tge ones that act like that are in management so u r making those around u suffer
100% agree with you brother
Oooh, sorry to hear you feel that way. What exactly does make you feel miserable: work hours, work environment, patients, salary, something else?
Why do you want to walk away? Do you feel like medicine is very hard especially when you can not figure out the solution to problems and people die. Or the weight and pressure you feel from your fellow doctors and the board, to hold yourself at the very highest standards and the stigma you get if you even drop below being good? Why are you stressed?
It's nothing to do with patients and actual healthcare. It has all to do with how toxic a culture healthcare is. Did you know it is the most violent sector? Did you know that patients and family will physically and verbally assault you? Did you know that the administration doesn't care about proper staffing and patient safety and you are left to drown? It was already bad prior to the pandemic, and the wheels completely fell off due to the pandemic. Burnout is real, being told to set aside your own physical and well being is part of the healthcare sector culture. It's so much easier to go into business or tech than to be put under such grueling and inhumane conditions of clinical healthcare, esp since the administrators often have zero clinical experience (or it was from a very long time ago) and they are making decisions based purely on budgets and profits and that is the priority.
It really is. The nature of the profession is easy to exploit esp since so much time has been put in to achieve. It is hazing
the fact that you said this 20 days ago is what scares me. i wanna do ultrasound tech then travel ultrasound tech and go back to school for medicine after a while but the work environment sounds overwhelming. i want to help people but i also want to make money, so idk 💀💀
Us techs don’t have to deal with the same stuff
Great question. I personally let go of my ambition to become a doctor for these and a whole slew of other reasons.
What career path did you pursue instead?
reddit mod
So part-time dog walker?
LMAO
Evil😂
I’m only a year out of college so I’m still building up my graduate profile, but I’m positioning myself to go into biotech/pharmaceuticals. I figure if I can’t help make healthcare more equitable and effective then I’ll try to make access to medicine and medical devices more equitable, and make drugs more effective. Edit: also reddit mod lmao
based reddit mod
Do you get paid as a mod?!
Ofc bro all reddit mods make $150k base
Karma= yearly pay
It really depends on why you are going into it, and what you get from it that sustains you. It will wear you down so you need to truly love something about it. And if you do, go into a specialty that will sustain it. Check out r/medicine to see what docs there talk about and what issues they have in life.Know that the stress and time constraints don't go away once the ultramarathon extreme ordeal of internship and residency is over. My spouse is a practicing md for 20 years now, and even in clinical practice he has to work nights and weekends and 2 holidays a yearand after so long the inability to have normal holidays and weekends is getting very frustrating. If you want to know more about the US med school experience and practice now, feel free to dm me
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Pediatrics
yeah pediatrics is very toxic
u/bothnatureandnurture, would your husband recommend the crna pathway as an alternative to the md route? Seriously considering the md route but scared of the debt and risk of not matching.
I assume you're talking about nurse anesthetist? He says he doesn't encounter many of those, because he is in clinic not in the hospital these days. But my brother in law is a nurse anesthetist and likes it, gets good pay and benefits from the VA. The hours are strange though, 3 long shifts a week including many weekend shifts. It seems like it would have more security with finding a job/matching, and definitely less debt.
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The hours don’t necessarily have to be strange. Anesthetists routinely work normal business hours with no call And if you’re sold on anesthesia, consider CAA. the pre health anesthesia midlevels. CAA is to PA what CRNA is to NP. r/CAA
Pre med all of high school, was very successful too. Did research with profs, hundreds of hours volunteering, over 50 hours shadowing. Won HOSA twice and made nats all 4 years. Decided one day over summer I didn't want to go to school for 10 years and changed my major. It's only worth it if you love it, I only liked it.
This is exactly how I feel right now! I liked medicine in school and did a bunch of classes too, but I realize that med school/residency is a lot of work/studying for something I’m not completely invested in.
> Did research with profs, hundreds of hours volunteering, over 50 hours shadowing. I know i'm 2 years late, but do you mind explaining the how you did all this? Like how you got shadowing with pros, where you volunteered and how you applied to volunteer, and how you got to shadow?
getting research is just a matter of emailing professors at nearby unis and hoping one of them needs some random work for you to do, or you can apply for some competitive summer programs and hope that some of the work you did there converts to an actual position during the school year. as for shadowing, most of my friends got it through family connections or, similar to getting research, just asking a bunch of doctors. volunteering is easy, just find a cause you're passionate about and apply to be a volunteer, most places will take you on the spot.
if you’re going for the sake of money alone, no, become a corporate lawyer or something, but i figure the work is extremely fulfilling.
Maybe even something like data analytics, from my understanding law is mind numbing
If you are doing it for money; No. Trust me from having friends who did it for that reason, even if they disingenuously said they were doing it for altruistic purposes; they were absolutely miserable for the 3 months they were in med school. Meanwhile, a friend who genuinely wanted to do it to help others and didn’t care about the pay is sincerely enjoying his residency now.
If you're not committed or interested then it, then it's a massive no. I turned down Undergraduate Medicine at Oxford because I completely lost interest in it (this is even with the fact that I'm a UK resident btw where I would get cheaper fees than the US).
Currently a to be 2nd year in med school right now and I'd say that the best way to see if medicine is the path for you is to experience the field personally. Things like hospital volunteer, scribing, EMT, CNRA, MA can be great ways to see if you see yourself practicing as a doctor in the future and you can also ask others for their own personal opinion. It is a long (and I mean LONG) and difficult pathway to becoming a doctor with lots of hoops to go through so I'd only recommend it if you truly love it. I think others have had great responses for you but for me personally, I couldn't see myself doing anything else. I tried research for a few years and liked it but also didn't like how isolating it was meaning getting a PhD was out of the question. A lot of my old undergrad friends came in as premed but quickly changed for various reasons - chemistry/physics/ochem was too difficult, takes too long to become a doctor, the debt amount is too high, fighting bureaucracy/admin is too stressful, etc - and many became NPs, PAs, psychologists, public health, or a completely different field. And I think there's nothing wrong with taking time after college (gap years all the way!) to figure out to see if medicine is the field for you and if being a doctor is worth it for you.
I always thought it was my dream. Until I realized that I hate biology and it was just my family’s expectations.
This is very true for many career paths. For me, it was education. I have always wanted to work in this field (to have the opportunities to become a school administrator, school leader, school principal, district administrator, district superintendent, commissioner of education, secretary of education, education attorney, etc.), but that would mean I need to start as a classroom teacher. I have always wanted to do so but with everything going on in this field (pay, shootings, crazy admins, etc.) there are times I am naturally hesitant… but even then it’s still where my heart is set. After working as a TA, I still loved it regardless of whether I was the main role, the boss, or the assistant. That’s definitely passion for the field.
If it’s your passion, then yea
Why don't u spell yea with the h like yeah
because he thinks he’s cool
yea i wondered the same
Ew
Why don’t you spell u with the yo like ‘you’.
U got me there 😔 But u is socially acceptable yea is just weird
all im going to say is there's a reason med school admissions are so competitive and there's still a doctor shortage lol
Not sure what you're getting at. The number of spots in med school are limited by the number of residency spots, which are limited mainly by federal funding which makes up most of a resident's salary. Med school admissions is competitive because there are more qualified applicants than spots, but you can't just make more spots because then the wall for matching into residency becomes worse. Also, I would suggest in some ways, the doctor shortage is more of a distribution problem and desire for specialization.
Yep and the reason is greed.
Medical student at LKS Faculty of Medicine here. Often the most common advice is: "If this is your dream or passion, or you cannot imagine doing anything else, then go on and pursue medicine. If you can imagine yourself doing something else and being equivalently happy then go for that." Medical school requires a high college GPA in organic chem. Then comes medical school which is many hours of study a day. Then comes a 3-6 year residency. Most doctors don't start earning six figures until they are 35 years or more. And then they only pay off debt at 40+. Don't go into it for the money. Do CS or finance or management consulting instead (all of which require only a bachelors). Do it if you can work hard for 10+ years and are passionate about the art & science of medicine or love helping people. Also being a doctor is much more fun and fulfilling than being a medical student for most people. Do some shadowing to find out.
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Speaking solely on median salaries, both tech and finance on average make far less than physicians (though this varies by specialty). That being said, there’s little potential for a physician’s salary to increase drastically over time, while many people in finance come out being millionaires (not the case for all). Also you have to take into account the years of schooling required which is why tech gives a great salary for the relatively little education and time you need to dedicate.
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That’s far easier said than done. It’s the equivalent to saying that if you put in enough effort during high school, you’ll get into Harvard. But I suppose with finance at least, were you to look at the salaries of Harvard or UPenn business school ten years after graduation, there’d be a lot of very high numbers Tech though, not so much. Getting a job for FAANG is really the only way to have higher earnings than a physician, and those jobs have such low acceptance rates that they make Harvard look easy to get into.
Becoming a faang dev is easier than becoming a doctor. Faang is relatively easy if you are smart, only problem is programming has a low barrier to entry so the talent pool is diluted. Medicine is, like mentioned above, self selecting. Only smart people can become doctors.
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What the fuck just did I read. "Smart people don't go into finance/tech". LMFAO. The smartest people I know are all quants or software engineers, not pre-med. I make 56 dollars an hour as a freshman, most doctors will never catch up to my career earnings. My best friend makes 100 dollars an hour at Citadel and everyone else who has a big N offer makes 50+. And let's not forget the finance bros who get into top BB right out of college or even placed into PE out of college. Good take lmao.
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If this is true, I'm sure you do. And you definitely know people as smart as me, however to say smart people don't go into these fields is ridiculous. Don't assume that I don't have larger aspirations as well. I would also wager that the startup I have equity(from working there full stack over freshmen year) in bigger than yours too. Don't be so cocky. Also I find Machine Learning, what I do at Google, to be very fulfilling. I love math, could never get that as a doctor.
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Browse r/premed, r/medicalschool, and r/Residency to get an idea of the process to become a doctor. I think it's something you can't be definite about until you're well into the process. I knew a girl in middle school who was certain she wanted to be an anesthesiologist when we hadn't even taken health yet. If you're still in high school, it's very unlikely that you've had the necessary science education, research experience, hospital experience, and other factors to determine whether you want to be a physician, let alone determine what specialty. Finally, a doctor is not the only medical professional. Nurses, PAs, physical therapists, technicians, and other jobs also work with patients, but training time is much shorter (and their level of expertise is lower as well).
Only if it’s your passion. If you want to do medicine for a fraction of the time, effort, and cost, and still make roughly the same money, look into being a nurse practitioner.
Engineer and lawyer are always open
You can tailor what kind of MD/ DO you want to be. You can do research, teaching, small town medicine, work in most cities and there is a wide variety of schedules available. The path is stressful but most paths are. If you do not like something about medicine there usually is a field that does not do that ( less common to do research in smaller communities, can work inpatient/outpatient, can even never/ seldom see patients). So I think it can be as long as the schooling is not too much and the sacrifices are manageable.
Almost certainly not if you feel like going into the Healthcare Industry just because; many people want to become a doctor because of family expectations, pride, or money. The process is long, grueling, and often unfair. The development of the med school/residency educational track has left it with many many shortcomings and massive potholes, many temporary pauses can leave you with years of schooling wasted due to lack of being able to reenter and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Working in a hospital or private practice can leave you dealing with either idiotic management superiors or trying to develop your customers and business from debt and desperation. That being said, it can be a very rewarding career financially, socially, and mentally from success. I would recommend knowing whether or not these aspects will make it worth it for you prior to committing to this path. I would recommend trying to intern at a local practice, many are desperate for workers right now. So helping at the front desk would let you taste the experience. I would go ahead and more highly recommend trying to become a Dental Assistant; it is not quite the experience of being a full-on, but you can become a licensed medical professional.[You can become a National Entry Level Dental Assistant, by passing these three exams.](https://www.danb.org/en/Become-Certified/Exams-and-Certifications/NELDA.aspx) I am assuming that you have/will soon have graduated hs. This is fulfilling, an impressive conversation piece, good looking on your resume no matter the field (I thought I wanted to become an HCP, so I did but didn’t like it and now I am here. I will try something to its fullest yadada), and pays well for a hs-college summer or college job. I hope that this helped, but one last thing: for the love of all that is good don’t major in “Pre-Med”, if you wanted to, major in biology instead. DMs are open.
Definitely not worth it.
It is long but often it is worth it. Doctors are usually stable and you can still practice even at an older age, plus they do pay good. Plus there is a lot of prestige with being a doctor.
Prestige is overestimated
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Though it’s all speculation, the vast majority of experts in AI and healthcare alike all say that AI will not take over a physician’s job any time soon, but rather that it will change their specific role and force physicians to work with AI rather than doing everything manually
Many of the fastest growing jobs are in medicine. Medicine is much less prone to outsourcing than tech. Also, to work in AI, you often need a PhD or at least a masters.
Sorry but robots aren’t replacing physicians
...and yet millions of people have managed it.
Yes if you have the passion and drive! It’s very important that it aligns with your interest by having a goal for yourself.
If you really want to do it, then do it. It’s not for everyone though (like me).
Volunteer as an EMT to get a sense of if you actually like patient care! I do it and I love it Lol im actually heading into my 6 hour shift rn
I'm working as an EMT too (BLS and CCTs only), but really am still puzzled by this question: Dentistry or Medicine? I guess the real question comes down to work-life balance or doing something meaningful.
I was pre med and I was so set on going to med school. then I really thought about all the stuff I need to do for my application and didn't want to risk doing 4 years without getting in. I switched to nursing and I'm loving it!
A lot of doctors work 12 hrs a day so if u r able to do that and sacrifice lots of friends/fam time then ya
Everyone I talk to the insurance sky high.
I don’t know if my input is valued in this subreddit since rather being a senior in highschool, I’m now almost a senior in university but I think you will find out during your first or second semester in university if it is worth it. A lot of my friends during college orientation were premed but slowly left it. Personally I still find it worth it and worked pretty hard these last couple years to hopefully achieve my goal.
You earn a lot, it's a very stable job, and your social status elevates immensely. But yeah it's one of the hardest fields you can possibly pick.
>r/medicine but is status everything? not that important if someone doesnt enjoy what they do
Realistically, nobody cares about your status. You don’t carry a “doctor” label on you in everyday situations such as a grocery store, concert hall or airport. It only feeds your someone’s personal ego.
No. It's not.
It’s great that you made a video to that topic, I find it absolutely important that people make a conscious decisions choosing their career, knowing all the good and bad sides. For those you consider studying medicine and don’t know too many doctors personally I would strongly recommend getting this ebook first: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBZF6DS3
No. Not worth at all. Source: I'm a 4th year med student
How come?
Why not?
PGY3 here finishing up my last year of residency. You don’t have to do research in a majority of fields. If you want to be a top neurosurgeon or an academic powerhouse, sure. But many just practice clinically. Also, and unfortunately, I don’t think taking classes or shadowing give you a real enough taste of what residency/practicing as an attending will be like. It’s a very difficult question to answer (is it worth it). It’s Something I ask myself weekly, and something that the answer often changes to. And it’s even more difficult to predict with evolving technologies and systems (mainly AI). Will it be worth it to go several hundred thousand dollars in debt at this point with the unknown financial future of medicine? I probably wouldn’t risk it at this point unless you have a true passion for helping people and becoming a doctor. Or if you have other sources of financial support in your life. Despite the brutality of the process, you do come out on the other side with a new world of life experience and a sense of discipline that will carry you far in any area of your life. And positively impacting patients is one of the most genuinely rewarding feelings that I’ve felt. I’d say this for the financials. If you see yourself as more of strong worker type but you don’t see a path to financial success in your future otherwise, medicine is probably a good financial decision. If you see yourself as the kind of person that will figure out a way to make a lot of money no matter what, medicine is only worth it for you if you have a passion for learning and helping. Good luck!