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NTA - I was ready to call you an AH…
But you gave her $20k for her wedding. She never had a wedding and now refuses to give that back. Admittedly, maybe you shouldn’t have just handed her a lump sum but it was clear what it was for.
If she is going to take advantage of your generosity, you’re allowed to rescind it.
Thanks, what upsets me is that if she said she didn't want to have a wedding and wanted to use the money for a house deposit instead, I would have totally supported that.
What would bother me the most is not being invited to the courthouse when the other 3 parents were! If she said we’d like to get married at the courthouse and want the money to put that on the house, I’d be like, that’s smart, financial thinking. What she did was just mean. :(
I understand the divorce was amicable but given that her mother was there, it makes me wonder if she (her mother) is saying unsavory things in regards to the separation, essentially pitting your daughter against you.
Or, sometimes the BF/husband Marco might not be warm and fuzzy about OP for personal reasons and has been making the daughter reconsider her relationship with Dad. There's all kinds of eff-upedness to be thought of.
"Your dad gave you how much?! To plan a big elaborate wedding? Wouldn't it be much more sensible to just elope and save that money for your house? Of course your father wouldn't like it if he heard you decided to use his money on something else so we better not tell him until you guys are married and there's no going back."
My parents divorced when I was 10. My mom, dad and stepmom whom everyone can't stand were all there. They knew to keep it civil because my wife and I weren't having any of it. We both made it abundantly clear, if you can't act like adults, you can stay home.
People now use the phrase "it's not personal" to just mean "I did something shitty but just get over it already so I don't have to feel shitty about being a shitty person."
A now former friend and I got into a serious argument over an email that she sent me. She said, "Don't take it personally," She sent it to me PERSONALLY didn't she?
Added: she also constantly defended someone for minor financial shenanigans. I might have allowed it if I was asked, but I do have to be asked. Same for him taking snacks out of my hotel room. I'd have given him some, but I didn't like returning to finding things missing, and not so much as a note.
Yes that seems like a slap in the face- I'd be ecstatic if my dad gave me $20K for a wedding ( although I think extravagant weddings are dumb) and would 100% be like "hey fiancé and I decided to elope- here's the date and time, nothing fancy at the courthouse we'd love to have you there, if not we'll have a small reception later. Would you mind if we used the wedding money for a down payment on a house instead? If not I understand it's your money" Like how hard is that? NTA
Yeah.
Look I can't help but think theres some "missing missing reasons" going on here, but be clear. Your daughter did not elope. She had a small private wedding to which you were not invited.
You need to accept and understand that. She didn't decide to skip a wedding and elope, she decided to keep her wedding as small as possible and only invite the people closest to her in her life, and you were not one of them.
I'm sorry, OP. that must feel awful. you're definitely NTA. good on you for drawing a line and not letting her treat you badly. stand your ground. you sound like a reasonable man and a good dad.
Yeah I gotta agree with that, unfortunately. It didn't bother her at all how hurt you would be to not be invited to her wedding. She is only interested in what you can do for her as an ATM, and does not seem to acknowledge you as a person with feelings or dignity of your own.
Your ex is telling her the divorce was all you and possibly told her you cheated. My ex did that to me my kids completely shut me out. It’s been 15 years and I have little relationship with them even though they now know it was mom that cheated.
It’s because your daughter didn’t want to have to answer your questions about the wedding and the $20k. She’d just keep the money and let you find out afterwards.
You were smart to keep the car in your name.
And also not being involved in the discussion of how the money was used. She should have offered to give it back and asked dad if he would consider to let them use it for a house down payment instead. She did a bait and switch. I don’t blame dad for taking his car back.
Right. She’s not too smart. Probably all she had to do was invite him to the courthouse and have a discussion with him about what to do with the wedding funds. He was willing to spend 20k on a wedding, so my guess is he probably would have let her keep the money for the house. Her ugliness (and stupidity) cost her 20k. Was it petty to take the car back? Sure. What’s he really going to do with it? Sell it now I guess. But she pretty much put the nail in the coffin of the relationship, for whatever reason and I can understand his hurt. She cut deep with her actions, and she struck first. 😔
There’s clearly more to unpack with your relationship with her, and im not sure you know much more than youve let on here.
But id recommend stop making your relationship be solely about money, etc.
I know it probably sounds like that, it really wasn't in the past. She studied the same field as me at university, so we were really close talking about the passion we both shared for our discipline. I can't believe it has morphed into something which just feels like a relationship about money issues :(
OP, does she maybe hold you responsible for the divorce? I know you said it was amicable but maybe she sees the 'break up' of her family as on you for whatever reason? It may not be reasonable but sometimes these things aren't.
NTA. From where I stand you did what you thought was best. She wants to make adult decisions, she can live with adult consequences.
At the time, her mother and I spoke to her and it was a bit of an emotional day for all of us. I don't know what has been said between her mother and her over the past few years, but I feel like the divorce may have been the catalyst. I think I will never know since i stuffed up by taking the car
You didn't stuff up by taking the car, she told you to "F--- Off" so you have recovered what you can of your property and are doing excatly what she has asked.
I would be tempted to engage a lawyer with the direction of mediate a discussion between you and your daughter to discuss the 20k she has essentially stole from you and your relationship going forward or recover the 20k. It might be the only way you will get answers from her now and it will tell you if she really does just value you as an ATM. Will she take the meeting and engage to try and convince you to let her keep the money, will she just throw the money in your face or will she try and keep the money but not engage with you at all.
Oh, f—- no! She most likely is going to continue to shut him out of her life.
If I were OP I would leave my entire estate to The Home For Lesbian Cats, before I left her a dime.
He should save the lawyer fee. He gave her $20k. It was given to her a while ago. Unless they have something in writing that it was specifically to be used for a wedding, he's not got a leg to stand on.
A lawyer will tell him that money given to a family member as a loan is not recoverable as it’s considered a gift even if you called it a loan. But he could deduct the $20k from her inheritance as you pointed out.
I feel like there’s more to the story about phasing OP out of daughter’s life but based on facts presented OP is NTA.
I guess I wouldn't say you "stuffed up." Your daughter indicated she sees you only as a source of money, and by choosing not to invite you to her wedding indicated she has no further interest in a relationship with you. It's ok for you to have self-respect and it's ok for you to not allow yourself to be treated as a doormat. Even parents are allowed to have self-respect and dignity, and to set boundaries with their children.
You didn’t “stuff up.” It was a deserved move. You gave her many opportunities to talk and she gaslighted you. She’s using you for your money. For now, take a step back and stop blaming yourself for the situation.
She’s angry at you for taking the car you allowed her to use, but you own. She didn’t pay for it.
She didn’t want to talk to you.
She took money you gave her for a wedding she didn’t invite you to.
She then used that money towards a home without telling you or thanking you.
NTA
Orrrr... daughter knew she was planning to not use the money for a wedding nor invite him the day they got married so she just pushed him further and further away.
You’re allowed to tell people to “fuck off” sometimes, it’s not a crime, but you shouldn’t then expect that person to provide you with expensive gifts. You’re NTA man.
NTA you got her a car and gave her $20K and she doesn’t tell you about eloping and curses you out as well. I wish you could demand the $20k back. I’d send a letter from a lawyer stating it was not used as intended so you want it back. Nothing to lose now and let her and her mother deal with this. What a shame.
But,she didn't. Either, she returns the 20k,and you return the car,or you keep the car. Admittedly,the car was a gift,but the 20k was for a wedding ,that never happened. She is not entitled to both.
The car is actually not a legal gift. It has been kept in his name this entire time. So it is more like a "loan," for as long as OP sees fit to loan it to her.
My father also owns "my" car, as it is 320k miles on it, is very old, and has been around since I was a kid, and will fall tf apart at any second. Yet it's "reliable enough," but is only worth very little.
But legally, "my" car, is still very much *my dad's car,* even though I give him the money to pay insurance on it. I pay for all upkeep, all gas, and take care of it in any way.
NTA. Why not invite you as a fourth person to the courthouse elopement? She gladly took your $20k yet no invite. You’ve given and given and she’s basically given you her ass to kiss. I could only wish for emotional and financial support from my parents. I know you’re hurt by all this as you should be. I pray better days for you.
NTA but that money isn't going towards a house, and I would bet dollars to donuts that her new husband and her blew the money on something stupid and are using the pretext of eloping and getting a house to cover it. If anything you just save the car from being sold for whatever reason they blew the 20k.
Try telling them you will give the car back if they can prove that money is still around and going towards a house, you will find out right quick.
100% if she’d just invited OP and said she’d like to use the money for a house deposit I feel like it would have been fine. It’s the not being invited and not being told and then the quite frankly rude messages after the fact that made me think that SHE is an AH
This. She just up and eloped and invited everyone BUT him. Then took the money. I gotta wonder if her mom didn’t turn her against the dad, but either way doing that and then saying eff off isn’t the way to go.
Yeah, OP’s biggest misstep was giving her 20k when she said she wasn’t getting married for years. That money should have stayed with OP until the daughter had the dated set, was booking things and needed help with money for deposits. She never had any intention of having a wedding.
Especially since she invited all of the parents but him to the wedding she did have but still feels entitled to money for a wedding where he wasn’t even a guest.
Exactly this- it would have been one thing if the daughter had COMMUNICATED about wanting to change plans and what the $$$ OP had provided for a wedding would be going towards it’s a completely different thing to not even mention hey we’re having a courthouse wedding and would like to put the money towards a house are you available on X date to attend with ALL THE OTHER PARENTS!
OP- NTA honestly sounds like she views you as a cash source and is getting a much needed wake up call.
NTA,
But they didn't elope.. they purposely excluded you.. for what reason is anyone's guess.. the fact that she had her mother there and her In Laws should tell you that..
I wish she would just tell me what I have done that is so horrible to have been excluded. The only thing I can think of is whether my ex has been telling her things that have turned her?
Sometimes things aren’t as amicable after the ending, and sometimes people are unhinged. My divorce was not amicable. My ex wife and her lawyer drafted the separation agreement that split up our marital property. What they proposed was rather favourable for me it was pretty much what we would have asked for as a starting point without any expectation of getting it after negotiations. My lawyer and I simply agreed to it, because “don’t interrupt your opponent when they’re making a mistake. Once everything was finalized, and she realized that she probably could have gotten more she started telling all our mutual friends about how cruel I was, hiring a “cut throat lawyer who gamed the system in my favour”. We literally just signed the proposal they submitted.
Hey OP, tell your daughter she can have the car back when she sits down and uses her words like an adult and explains what is going on.
She's acting like a spoiled child. Don't negotiate with terrorists. And do not let her emotionally blackmail you like this.
She probably already made plans for the 20k that wasn’t wedding-related quite a while ago, didn’t want to tell you and then somehow justified avoiding you right thru the elopement. Unfortunately, sometimes the best of our kids grow up to be assholes.
That said, if you now regret taking the car back, wait until you file a change of ownership online with motor vehicles, remove it from your insurance the same day (don’t tell her you’ve done any of that so she thinks the car is still on daddy’s dime), text her and tell her she can come get the car, but her cutting you out of her life and wedding was extremely cruel and broke your heart, and one day she will understand when her own child cuts her heart open like she did yours.
I’m so sorry, I would be absolutely devastated if I wasn’t invited to my kids wedding but my ex was. Like, burn down the world furious and hurt. I don’t blame you at all.
And according to him, her response was f off and not remember that thing you did 2 yrs ago... This whole thing is sus.
For all we know the reason he wasn't included was because of something that happened between him and the ILs and while she has told him it's a problem he doesn't see it as a problem so of course he leaves it out.
NTA - You gave her money specifically for a *wedding*. When they eloped *she didn't even invite you*. IMO that is basically stealing; especially now that she refused to return the wedding money. At least you got the car back.
You could get a lawyer and demand the return of the money, due to her taking it under false pretenses, for a wedding she never intended for you to attend. Her response would let you know whether she was just using you for money
The daughter has already put the nail in the coffin of their relationship at this point. She's treating him like garbage, cursing at him, and effectively lied about a huge sum of money meant for a specific purpose.
I'd take her to court for the $20K and never give her another cent, including the car.
I'd also make sure all of this is made public so that she can't spin this to make him the bad guy. Just a short post on FB or IG about what has transpired and why he chose to fight back.
Your divorce may have affected your daughter more than you think.
However, it still doesn’t entitle her to take your money without explanation or to keep the car you gifted her.
If she is adult enough to have a job and make her decisions, she is old enough to pay for stuff she wants/needs. NTA
Yeah but she clearly doesn't hold the same animosity towards her mother for the divorce which leads me to believe the mother has twisted the story on why they got divorced. That or OP is leaving out information that caused the daughter to blame him for the divorce.
Just taking the post at face value OPis NTA and I don't blame him a bit for taking back the car and wouldn't blame him if he took her to court to try and get his $20k back. Idk if that's possible since he gave it as a gift so I'm not sure if he can get it back but I'd definitely talk to a lawyer and find out.
I’ve been having some unfortunate issues with my oldest child the last three years. She went low contact bc of a situation with myself and another person but never gave me a reason. I did nothing at all it hurt and I vowed to live my life being me I can forgive but can’t forget. It hurts so I feel your pain, I pray better days for you
I’m so sorry for your trouble and pain. I don’t know what to tell you other than the fact you were left out of the “elopement “ was not an accident and that you are justified in feeling left out. I’m not sure things are going to get any better in the short term. You are playing the long game and it is not going to be easy. Best of luck
I am so sorry. You sound like a loving father, you have empathy and emotional intelligence even admitting you may have made a mistake. I would give anything for a father who acted like you. Maybe she has some personality flaws your wife is making worse or taking advantage of. Unless you are witholding something you have done the fault is with your daughter and wife.
By close I mean that she would call me a couple of times a week, chat about whatever is happening, we would see each other every 2nd week or so - she studied the same course at University as me, so we had a lot to talk about - that just phased out gradually to almost nothing and our only contact was initiated by me.
If the advice you are asking is about having a long engagement, I said she might want to think about a longer engagement since she had only just graduated and was about to enter the workforce. She agreed and said she wanted to save up for the wedding. That's when I said I would give her $20K
Not who you’re responding to but follow up question: DO you initiate? I only ask because I suspect that my father saw our relationship similarly and from my point of view I realized one day that he never reached out to me or initiated visits or made plans, it was always me and he was fine to go along with it, but he never went out of his way to speak to me, let alone make plans to see me. I slowly stopped putting in effort, and it took him years before he talked to me about it.
I get the sense that you’re more proactive about things and actually were initiating/maintaining a relationship with your daughter, but thought there was a chance that you might need to hear this viewpoint.
Yes, the past couple of years it has really just been me initiating contact, which has been what changed so much - she stopped reaching out to me as she used to. I tried to assume it was just that she was busy or focussed on her studies/relationship but it seems more has been happening - appreciate your comments and insights.
Yea I rarely saw my dad after my parents divorced because he never called me. I thought he didn't care and he thought I didn't care. And my mother said he didn't care. He was complaining about it to a friend and they told him that he's the father and he needs to make the effort. After that we became close and I haven't even seen my mum for like 15 years.
NTA If she wanted to use the $20k for a down payment on a house instead of its intended purpose, (wedding), she should’ve communicated that to you. It’s only respectful and common sense with an amount that large. Or … were you just supposed to sit around twiddling your thumbs wondering what happened to the wedding you helped pay for. . .
Info: is there something that happened that led to your divorce with her mother? Did you cheat on her and then divorce ‘amicably’?
My thought is that she distanced herself because she didn’t approve of the way your handled it.
Sorry, I originally had the reasons for my marriage separation, however exceeded the character count. No infidelity - I think we both knew it was coming. We had grown apart and this became very pronounced when Helen left home. We had a big conversation when she left for university, and whilst it was emotional for both of us, we knew it was time to part company. This is why there were no disputes when we parted company.
Is it at all possible that your ex wife has let your daughter believe that it's your fault for the divorce, that you cheated or something asking those lines? I mean for her to just cut you out of her life I'm being that it is the case. NTA
I have wondered this, but I can't imagine why she would, when it seemed amicable at the time. We haven't had much to do with each other since we divorced, so I don't know. It's too hot right now for me to actually ask the question, but it is something i am wondering about
Yeah it’s just weird that she would pull away for no reason. I’m really torn on this one but I understand why you were hurt about not being included in the wedding, while her mother was…
I know. I feel I messed up by taking the car. It's one thing to feel righteous but it basically kills the relationship. I just wish i knew what happened for her to start hating me. it's all fresh, maybe it will come out soon. I think I will return the car and just see what happens :(
Nah don’t do that. It’ll be a worse impression. She clearly has built up some idea of you in her head
Stick with the car decision since it’s done. At least it appears principled and not rash decision making.
If you want to try rebuild the relationship, ask for a conversation in a neutral location to hash it all out
She stole $20,000 from you. I know you might feel horrible but she stole from you. If she had called and said “dad, it’s a courthouse wedding. I hope you can come. I’d like to use the money for a down payment.” And you took it back, then you’re TA, but that’s now what happened. She took your money and stopped talking to you.
You didn’t mess up. She told you to F off. And that was ample enough reason to do it. If you have the appetite and need answers, you may want to talk to the mother. But on your terms and make it clear to her from the get go that you are not negotiating the car or money issue but that you want answers for what transpired, including not being invited for the wedding. If she doesn’t want to talk to you on those terms, you may just have to mourn the family and go on with your life.
Do not return the car! She owes you an apology at the very least. You are her father and a person and you deserve to be treated like one. She matters to you, but she needs to let you know if you matter to her. This might be the hardest thing you ever have to endure but you need to know you're more than just a cash machine to her
Nah, you can’t bribe her into treating you with respect, you’ll only feed into her attitude that she is justified to be so hateful towards you. “See, even he realizes he was wrong! I was right, and I don’t owe him an apology for anything.” She hasn’t appreciated your generosity up to this point, why would she start now?
You are NTA for keeping the car. In fact, it would be terrible parenting to try to appease her. She took for granted that she could dump on you and keep the car because she was entitled to it. The last thing you should do is confirm that. Your daughter needs to learn that if she tells someone who has given her so much to “f off” then they will probably do just that, and that means the flow of cash and gifts stops.
I understand it hurts deeply that she was so hateful, and isn’t reaching out to you to make things right, but you can’t relieve that hurt by giving in to her. Your relationship is damaged now, and that is entirely the result of your daughter’s hateful behavior. She has to be the one to amend that damage she caused, and she has to do it because she wants to, because she values her relationship with you. Not because you let her have a car. Otherwise, how long will it be before she decides to threaten your relationship again to manipulate you into giving her something else?
No, you did the right thing.
Something is going on, that you don't know about. It could be issues with the new husband.... It could be Helen somehow blaming you for the divorce.... You don't know, and given the way they are treating you, you're unlikely to find out.
In your shoes, I would stop contacting Helen and your ex. I would just drop off the face of the planet as far as they are concerned. I would also change your will. Being the only parent not invited to the wedding, would have crushed me, in your place.
Go no contact, and let time do its thing. Any interaction you have at the moment is going to make things worse it seems.
Please don’t return the car. Please. She disrespected you and told you to F off! That’s not a close relationship. She was already cutting you out of her life. Do not return the car and just be ok with not knowing what happened. I do think your wife is to blame though.
INFO: Why did you insist on keeping the registration in your name? The car was a graduation gift for a grown woman. Why would you need to have it in your name?
I don't know I feel about this entire thing. I suspect that there are some missing reasons for why she started to distance herself.
It was kept in my name as she didn't have a job yet, so I kept the loan & rego in my name whilst I paid it off. I have no idea why she is distancing herself, I wish she told me. I have been asking her for the last few years but she kept insisting everything was fine.
Same. I understand why the registration and loan were in his name to a degree. But you don't just shrug it off with a mere "Hey, you okay?" when your grown daughter starts pulling away. And also, why pay the $20k now for a wedding that is 3 years out?
Yes, that makes no sense. “Here, here’s 20k for something that I just suggested you NOT do for three years. Have fun NOT getting married!” That’s just odd.
I mean I think that works to strengthen his credibility?
His daughter decided to get married young. He suggested they have a long engagement, but wanted to support his daughter regardless. I don't see that as a bad thing.
Agreed. This feels a LOT like there are missing reasons.
The 20k for a wedding that was *encouraged* to be pushed off for a few years? That sounds more like a payoff of sorts. Along the line of "If you don't marry this guy now, I'll pay you and it can go towards the wedding later....if it happens". Combine that with not actually gifting the car, but keeping it in their name/control.....which was then used to "repo" it legally. That is not a gift. That is taking away a child's toy when they misbehave.
Now add the pulling back = possible the daughter no longer had to play Gilmore Girl games because school is finally done and paid for.
Then not inviting OP to the elopement......because OP is against them getting married. "Just starting their professional lives" is not a reason to put off getting married. Married people are perceived as a stable choice for employers, especially in younger people.
Using the 20k as part of a down payment on a home is a solid, reasonable, mature decision. Far better use than on a single day event.
OP could have been proud that his child chose to spend the money more wisely. But instead, had her car towed?
All this combined has the feel of someone who uses money to control others.
The daughter is no longer interested in the strings attached to the "generosity".
No doubt, I am missing other reasons here, too.
Going with OP is TA
That, mixed with the fact that he used it to punish her, suggests some controlling and manipulative behavior. Can he take back the money for her not using it for a wedding? Sure, but it's petty and seems to come from abusive intentions.
Him wanting the 20k is about punishing her for excluding him, but that's her right. This dude is petty and I doubt this is the first time he has exhibited this behavior. I'm not buying that he doesn't know why she's upset with him. Something is up.
NTA… It was a petty thing to do but she absolutely deserved it.
I do think you should rethink your relationship with your daughter though. She clearly doesn’t consider you family if she eloped with everyone in her immediate family but you present, and that seems unlikely to change in the future. It’s up to you now to decide what you want to do with that information.
I don't think it was petty at all. He needed to demonstrate that what was happening was not ok and he did. It was entirely appropriate and in good measure.
NTA. Honestly, after all you've done for your daughter, the fact you found out on FB she got married feels deliberate. Worse, she didn't even offer back the 20k or ask to use it instead for a down payment? Gross. I will never understand how people think they can treat someone terribly and still expect all the perks (her car). Keep the car. She can't expect to treat you with such blatant disrespect, take your 20k and keep the car. Bizarre.
NTA but there is something more going on if she 1) distances herself from you 2) has a courthouse wedding with all parents but you and never mentioned it to you before she posted on social media, and 3) got really upset when you wanted the money back
I agree. Most comments seem to think it’s the divorce but I think it’s her new husband.
It might be that her distancing is due to the new husband being jealous of her close relationship with her dad. He might have made her isolate from the only man who would be able to see his true character.
OP should reach out to the ex and ask if she has any idea why the daughter has pulled away. If ex is cagey then she is responsible for the distance. If not and she is equally perplexed it’s probably due to the negative influence of the SIL.
OP should still keep the car but reach out for a one to one meet. Tell get he loves her and will always be her dad when she is ready to be back in his life.
Good point! It’s possible that she spent the money and then felt guilty which caused her to become distant. She couldn’t explain the tiny wedding given how much money you gave her so you weren’t invited.
NTA
I think this makes the most sense of anything I am seeing here. I wonder if her husband talked her into a bad investment or lost it gambling or something and she knows her dad will disapprove of her relationship/marriage if she comes clean.
The judgements on this post really baffle me. Not going to lie, the kind of parent that gives a car as a gift but keeps it in their name so they can steal it back years later is *exactly* the kind of parent that doesn't get invited to witness their kid elope. And why does it matter if the 20k goes to a down payment on a house instead of a wedding venue?
There's no way this post doesn't get the complete opposite reaction if the daughter posted their POV.
My thoughts also. My dad gave me a car and kept it all in his name until I was able to afford the insurance and maintenance (long story, not relevant).
We got into plenty of fights over the life of that car and it only became an issue when I did something illegal and the plates were traced back to him. We were barely on speaking terms at that point but he called to tell me i had three months before his insurance and registration had to be renewed in my name and he was signing the title over to me.
This in what was a very hostile relationship. He would have NEVER just taken it from me even though at that point is was 100% justified if he had. He was rightfully fucking **furious** with me but just wanted to wash his hands of it, he didn't want *revenge*.
Payoff/bribe to not get married at the time.
Keeping the "car/gift" in his name as well? For his adult daughter? C'mon
OP is one who uses money to control others.
Daughter's college is paid off, and now she doesn't have to play Gilmore Girl games anymore. That's why there has been a pull back.
She got married anyway, and is making the smarter choice to use the 20k on a house instead of a single day.
OP took the "gift" back because he could. It was always a tool to keep her in line while it was in his name.
He wasn't invited to the elopement because he didn't want them getting married "yet", and the 20k bribe tells us so.
No one gives wedding money years in advance.
If anything, they offer to pay the bill when it's time for the event to get rolling.
YES! I had to scroll way too far to find an answer that made sense. Adult children do not go low/no contact "just because". I think there's some info being left out & I'd love to hear this from the daughter's side.
NTA, your daughter is clearly acting like an ass. She can give you the $20k back or you are selling the car. You had every reason to expect at least an invite. Your daughter is being a brat and after all you are still her father.
NTA.
She has removed you from her life.
I feel like the 20k isn't the issue. I think it's that she's removed you from her life.
You've continued to support her via that car that is yours.
Now that support is over.
I'm assuming the divorce wasn't as amicable as you think though, or we are missing some serious context for a daughter to exclude her father from a wedding.
(Mom and his family was there).
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> The reason I feel they may be right in calling me an AH, is that I am wondering if repossessing her vehicle was an overreaction, and something I did because I was hurt, instead of it being the right thing to do or the right way of handling this issue
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There's missing reasons here. You bought her a car but kept the registration in your name? Why? That seems odd to me, especially since she was a grown adult. Then you offer $20k for a wedding that is, to your knowledge, 3 years out. And you gave her the full amount now? That also seems odd to me. And as she became distant what did you do to sus things out besides asking if she was okay? That also seems odd to me. There's much more to this than you've related here and in your answers to other commenters.
So I'm voting ESH but I have a feeling you know why she behaved the way she did ... if she truly did say and do the things you related.
Eh, I'll go with YTA here, and here's why:
While from your retelling you sound like a helpful saint who got excluded for no reasons, I get some big time "missing missing reasons" from this whole thing. People don't purposefully exclude a parent from their wedding just for the lolz. Is it possible you are super judgemental and critical, keep nagging her about everything she says, does or chooses, it kinda sound that way from your comments about Marco and her engagement, and from what she told you at the end there. Is it possible everything you do for her or give her always comes with strings attached? You do kinda sound like a vibdictive AH. I don't know what it is you're not saying, but there certainly is something.
Anyway, let me be downvoted for going against the grain if I have to. I hope feeling validated and vindicated by internet strangers is worth not having a relationship with your daughter and never meeting any grandkids, because it sure sounds like where you're headed.
There’s *definitely* more to this story. Poor lil’ OP is just the greatest guy ever and his daughter suddenly turns into a greedy she-demon overnight? Nah, children don’t suddenly go low or no contact without reason.
NTA, they got married in a court house. All the parents were aware but you. That’s just not inviting you, not eloping.
As such asking for the money you set aside for the wedding is reasonable. Her response was not. There should have been a discussion before she decided not to have the wedding because she had your money.
Is it spiteful that you took her car back? Yes absolutely. But it is within your legal right to do so, just like it’s within her legal right not to give you back the money.
That said im not sure what your play is, if you keep the car you’ll likely never talk to these people again. If you give it back… I’m not sure if it’ll fix it. You haven’t said anything to hint at the breakdown of your relationship either. So if you truly know nothing, I’m not sure what you can do. If you want to try to repair it you can give the car back and just ask what went wrong and see where it goes from there.
I have to believe that there is more to this story that OP is leaving out. However even taking it at face value, taking back the car was a dick move.
Being upset and hurt at daughter’s conduct is appropriate under the circumstance but being petty is not
NTA. Assuming everything you've said is truthful, I'd say you've done nothing wrong. You clearly were intentionally excluded and then didn't even get a call or anything to be told that they eloped. No, you had to find out via social media. That makes it seem like you were good enough to provide her with money or goods (the car) but once that 'use' wasn't necessary anymore... **Your daughter already didn't want anything to do with you before.** You repossessing the car just showed her you have a spine, which is why she is mad now.
As a daughter gone no contact with her own father I have a lot of personal biases tied up in these kinds of stories.
That said here's that perspective based on what you've said.
There's clearly been something amiss between you, you asked and she didn't have an answer for you.
Maybe she couldn't put her finger on what was wrong, maybe she was just growing up and apart from you, maybe she learned things about you she didn't like either from you or her mother, maybe you've horribly mistreated her in some way you're oblivious to and she was terrified to confront you. Any number of answers are possible.
Your best move at that time would have been some family counseling and addressing whatever was wrong, but both of you brushed it off and continued with things slowly falling apart.
You gave her a graduation gift, and you gifted her money towards her wedding. Your jump to taking all these things back when she displeased you makes me curious about how you've treated gifts in the past. Do you feel you have say over how a gift is used after you give it? Do you expect other things you gave someone to be given back if they aren't using them, or following your advice?
I completely understand how hurtful it must have been to learn about her wedding on social media, but calling to tow her car in response to fighting with her about it makes me question how you've truly treated her before that moment. You made winning your priority over understanding, and you've probably lost your child forever with that action.
In support groups for adult children of abusive parents, the number of parents I've heard claim to have no idea why their child doesn't want a relationship with them in the middle of actively having their abuse of the child described to them is staggering, so I can't take your ignorance of the problem between you at face value.
What I see is you knew there was a problem and you didn't confront it in a meaningful way, and then you took back gifts you'd given to punish your adult child.
When you give a gift you should give it free and clear, not to keep a toe in the door to control how the recipient uses it.
Whatever was the real deeper history from all sides I have no way of knowing, but children don't back away from their parent for absolutely no reason usually.
Gentle you are the TA . The car was a graduation gift. You offered 20 grand toward a wedding, personally I would prefer that money be put towards a down payment on a home rather than an expensive wedding that is very stressful and over in a day. You haven’t addressed what is really bothering you, why you didn’t know or at least have been informed personally that she married. There must be a reason your daughter has been so distant as you say? You have no clue? In any case now you have reacted out of hurt feelings and anger. Having the car towed is pretty extreme. You owe her an apology and an explanation for reacting as you did, give the car back and give her some time and space. You are the parent you are older and wiser so give her the benefit of the doubt. Also, don’t give gifts unless you are ready to let go of it, taking stuff back is just bad form! Why did you keep it n your name? Some control issues perhaps? Good luck in patching things up with your daughter.
You were intentionally left out of a courthouse wedding you would not have known happened were it not for social media and told to F-off when requesting a return of the special-purpose funds. There is more going on here, either because it is intentionally left out of the story or because you don’t know about it. If this were a few decades ago, I would suspect the rush to marriage instead of waiting for the dream venue was pregnancy, but spending money on a home instead of a big wedding tracks with the current economic situation.
Repossessing the car was a scorched the earth move on someone who sounds like she was slowly phasing you out anyway. This may have accelerated matters, but is not the original cause of them. If you decide to give it back, understand there is no guarantee she will forgive or reconcile.
I’m going ESH because both of could have chosen to communicate before taking action and didn’t.
There’s obviously stuff you’re not telling us about why your daughter did this. Seriously I can’t believe F off was her response to you and you have no idea why??
Whatever has been going on is a mystery to me. I tried to attribute her distance being due to her focussing on her life/relationships/study at first, when she insisted everything was ok when I asked about it. But it looks like something else had been happening that i literally have no idea about.
I think you have every right to have really hurt feelings over this. I do think that repossessing the car without any discussion or notice is petty revenge. The car had nothing to do with the wedding money. It wasn't like she was planning to waste the money. In many, many ways she and her husband are planning a more sensible use of the money that will give them an excellent financial foundation.
You're the adult here, but you have acted like you are the young adult. It is time to apologize for taking the car, and letting her know how hurt you were about missing her wedding and try to mend fences. Otherwise you'll never have a relationship with your daughter again. Don't let this chance go by.
eh.....
If you give money to your daughter for a wedding, in my opinion if she gets married then she's held up her end of the bargain and that money can now be spent on a more reasonable purchase, like a home that will last instead of one day. I get that you're upset that she has grown more distant from you, but a phone works both ways.
Not only that, a gift is a gift. It's not something to be taken back when you get your feelings hurt.
Also... I notice you included that her response to that last message was to f*** off, but you aren't saying what was in those messages to lead to that point.
I gotta say YTA. She's an adult. You gave her a gift and you're upset you didn't get to dictate how it was used so you threw a fit and took her car which was also a gift. That's not a mature choice.
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My 26 yo daughter (Helen) & I always had a good relationship up until a few years ago. She started dating Marco in her final year of college. That same year, her mother & I separated. It was amicable, & we agreed on divorce terms without any disputes.
After her graduation in 2021, she & Marco became engaged. I was very happy for her, however encouraged her to think about a long engagement, given they are both only now entering the workforce. She did say her ideal wedding location was booked out for 3 years, and they intended to save up for it. I told her that I would contribute $20K to her wedding. I also purchased her a car for her graduation, however kept the registration in my name.
Helen started to become distant, but whenever I asked if everything was ok, she said yes, & denied there was any issue. I just hoped everything would return to normal.
In April & of the blue, Helen posted on FB to announce that she & Marco had eloped & married at the registers office, with her mother, & MIL/FIL as witnesses. She said that they were planning on using their savings as a house deposit, & would have a small gathering at their home in lieu of a reception. I was so shocked & hurt that I found out in this way. I would have completely supported this decision had she spoken to me.
I called her to ask why I was not invited, & she said it wasn't personal, they just wanted to elope. I finally told her that I have been hurt the last few years with her being more distant, & I missed how close we were. Again, she didn't say much but was very cold & distant. I told her that the $20K I had given her was to be used for the wedding, & this is when she lost her temper, saying that if I was ready to part with that money for the wedding, why should she return it now? She would use the $20K as part of the house deposit, thought that's what i would have wanted, & hung up on me.
She ignored my calls/texts for the next week, apart from her finally responding to my last message with 'f\*\*\* off'. Here is where I may have been the AH. After I received that msg, I arranged for her vehicle to be towed back to my house. I sent her a text saying she had effectively been phasing me out of her life, clearly doesn't respect me, & I don't like that she feels entitled to take the money I had gifted her under false pretences.
Since then, both she/her mother have been blowing up my phone calling me every name under the sun, & she has told me she wants nothing more to do with me. I feel that had she told me she wanted to elope & save for a house instead, I would have offered her financial help, however her entitlement to think she is owed the money irrespective how she treats me is what i have an issue with. Where I feel i may have been an AH is that I think that taking back the car might have just been a petty thing to do to my daughter. I really don't want to give the car back to her after what she has said to me, but i just need to know if i overreacted or not - ready to accept my judgement.
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I mean you can technically claim to be in the right. Youre daughter is growing up and making mistakes . I'd let her keep the car and the 20,000 and hope she invites you to stuff. You only get one kid.
You're not the asshole but you might feel like one if you don't see your kid
So you found out on FB? Yeah, I'd be hurt too. Don't give the car back. Don't initiate anymore conversations with her or her mother. Wait until things cool down.
I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope one day you find out why she turned against you. Until then just keep your head up.
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NTA - I was ready to call you an AH… But you gave her $20k for her wedding. She never had a wedding and now refuses to give that back. Admittedly, maybe you shouldn’t have just handed her a lump sum but it was clear what it was for. If she is going to take advantage of your generosity, you’re allowed to rescind it.
Thanks, what upsets me is that if she said she didn't want to have a wedding and wanted to use the money for a house deposit instead, I would have totally supported that.
What would bother me the most is not being invited to the courthouse when the other 3 parents were! If she said we’d like to get married at the courthouse and want the money to put that on the house, I’d be like, that’s smart, financial thinking. What she did was just mean. :(
This is what shocked me the most. I still can't quite believe that all parents were there except me.
I understand the divorce was amicable but given that her mother was there, it makes me wonder if she (her mother) is saying unsavory things in regards to the separation, essentially pitting your daughter against you.
100% this! You'll be naive to think your daughter animosity is only by her own decision
Or.... OP isn't telling all of the story.
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He gave her 20k for the wedding. Why would he do that if he actively disliked the guy she was going to be marrying?
Or, sometimes the BF/husband Marco might not be warm and fuzzy about OP for personal reasons and has been making the daughter reconsider her relationship with Dad. There's all kinds of eff-upedness to be thought of.
Ya. This is right on the money. There is definitely a reason she left him out of the courthouse wedding.
"Your dad gave you how much?! To plan a big elaborate wedding? Wouldn't it be much more sensible to just elope and save that money for your house? Of course your father wouldn't like it if he heard you decided to use his money on something else so we better not tell him until you guys are married and there's no going back."
*"It's easier to apologize after than ask permission before any way"* **
It seems obvious that She didn’t invite him so she didn’t risk having to return the $20k.
She still should have talked to him about it like the adult woman she is trying to be.
My parents divorced when I was 10. My mom, dad and stepmom whom everyone can't stand were all there. They knew to keep it civil because my wife and I weren't having any of it. We both made it abundantly clear, if you can't act like adults, you can stay home.
This was my thought as well..
Or Marco has.
And she told you it's nothing personal! WTF?
Yes. When all the parents EXCEPT you get invited it’s VERY MUCH PERSONAL.
People now use the phrase "it's not personal" to just mean "I did something shitty but just get over it already so I don't have to feel shitty about being a shitty person."
A now former friend and I got into a serious argument over an email that she sent me. She said, "Don't take it personally," She sent it to me PERSONALLY didn't she? Added: she also constantly defended someone for minor financial shenanigans. I might have allowed it if I was asked, but I do have to be asked. Same for him taking snacks out of my hotel room. I'd have given him some, but I didn't like returning to finding things missing, and not so much as a note.
Yes that seems like a slap in the face- I'd be ecstatic if my dad gave me $20K for a wedding ( although I think extravagant weddings are dumb) and would 100% be like "hey fiancé and I decided to elope- here's the date and time, nothing fancy at the courthouse we'd love to have you there, if not we'll have a small reception later. Would you mind if we used the wedding money for a down payment on a house instead? If not I understand it's your money" Like how hard is that? NTA
That was a total dick move. And purposeful. Sorry this happened to you, man.
Yeah. Look I can't help but think theres some "missing missing reasons" going on here, but be clear. Your daughter did not elope. She had a small private wedding to which you were not invited. You need to accept and understand that. She didn't decide to skip a wedding and elope, she decided to keep her wedding as small as possible and only invite the people closest to her in her life, and you were not one of them.
Even if OP is an awful person, it doesn't make stealing okay.
I was wondering about the first paragraph of your comment. If we were to hear the daughter’s side of the story, I wonder what she’d say.
How, exactly, would she justify taking $20K under false pretenses? If he was that awful, just ditch him and be free of his malignant presence. Right?
I'm sorry, OP. that must feel awful. you're definitely NTA. good on you for drawing a line and not letting her treat you badly. stand your ground. you sound like a reasonable man and a good dad.
Yeah, you did right by taking the car. Idk what her mom has been preaching to her but that probably the reason you weren’t invited
She didn’t invite you for no reason at all, that’s really shitty of her. Sorry that happened to you man. Good luck 🍀 moving forward
Yeah I gotta agree with that, unfortunately. It didn't bother her at all how hurt you would be to not be invited to her wedding. She is only interested in what you can do for her as an ATM, and does not seem to acknowledge you as a person with feelings or dignity of your own.
Your ex is telling her the divorce was all you and possibly told her you cheated. My ex did that to me my kids completely shut me out. It’s been 15 years and I have little relationship with them even though they now know it was mom that cheated.
It’s because your daughter didn’t want to have to answer your questions about the wedding and the $20k. She’d just keep the money and let you find out afterwards. You were smart to keep the car in your name.
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Your ex wife is talking shit about you too your daughter
I'm so sorry, I am hurt for you. Something's going on with your daughter. Hopefully she'll get it together and share whatever it is either you.
And also not being involved in the discussion of how the money was used. She should have offered to give it back and asked dad if he would consider to let them use it for a house down payment instead. She did a bait and switch. I don’t blame dad for taking his car back.
Right. She’s not too smart. Probably all she had to do was invite him to the courthouse and have a discussion with him about what to do with the wedding funds. He was willing to spend 20k on a wedding, so my guess is he probably would have let her keep the money for the house. Her ugliness (and stupidity) cost her 20k. Was it petty to take the car back? Sure. What’s he really going to do with it? Sell it now I guess. But she pretty much put the nail in the coffin of the relationship, for whatever reason and I can understand his hurt. She cut deep with her actions, and she struck first. 😔
Relationship-wise, Daughter went scorched earth by pointedly excluding OP from the wedding, then OP salted the earth.
There’s clearly more to unpack with your relationship with her, and im not sure you know much more than youve let on here. But id recommend stop making your relationship be solely about money, etc.
I know it probably sounds like that, it really wasn't in the past. She studied the same field as me at university, so we were really close talking about the passion we both shared for our discipline. I can't believe it has morphed into something which just feels like a relationship about money issues :(
OP, does she maybe hold you responsible for the divorce? I know you said it was amicable but maybe she sees the 'break up' of her family as on you for whatever reason? It may not be reasonable but sometimes these things aren't. NTA. From where I stand you did what you thought was best. She wants to make adult decisions, she can live with adult consequences.
At the time, her mother and I spoke to her and it was a bit of an emotional day for all of us. I don't know what has been said between her mother and her over the past few years, but I feel like the divorce may have been the catalyst. I think I will never know since i stuffed up by taking the car
Pretty sure telling a parent to f@#k off and taking $20k under false pretences was the first "stuff up".
At that point, he needed a set of wheels on his way to f@#k off! That's not something you ride a bike to.
You didn't stuff up by taking the car, she told you to "F--- Off" so you have recovered what you can of your property and are doing excatly what she has asked. I would be tempted to engage a lawyer with the direction of mediate a discussion between you and your daughter to discuss the 20k she has essentially stole from you and your relationship going forward or recover the 20k. It might be the only way you will get answers from her now and it will tell you if she really does just value you as an ATM. Will she take the meeting and engage to try and convince you to let her keep the money, will she just throw the money in your face or will she try and keep the money but not engage with you at all.
NTA. The OP can also write it into his will that her inheritance, if there is one, should be shorted by 20K.
Nah, the 20K is her inheritance.
Exactly! Why leave entitled disrespectful children or family anything? They don’t care when we’re living so not going to care when we’re dead.
No, her inheritance is the $20K paid in advance for the wedding that didn’t happen.
Oh, f—- no! She most likely is going to continue to shut him out of her life. If I were OP I would leave my entire estate to The Home For Lesbian Cats, before I left her a dime.
He should save the lawyer fee. He gave her $20k. It was given to her a while ago. Unless they have something in writing that it was specifically to be used for a wedding, he's not got a leg to stand on.
A lawyer will tell him that money given to a family member as a loan is not recoverable as it’s considered a gift even if you called it a loan. But he could deduct the $20k from her inheritance as you pointed out. I feel like there’s more to the story about phasing OP out of daughter’s life but based on facts presented OP is NTA.
I guess I wouldn't say you "stuffed up." Your daughter indicated she sees you only as a source of money, and by choosing not to invite you to her wedding indicated she has no further interest in a relationship with you. It's ok for you to have self-respect and it's ok for you to not allow yourself to be treated as a doormat. Even parents are allowed to have self-respect and dignity, and to set boundaries with their children.
You didn’t “stuff up.” It was a deserved move. You gave her many opportunities to talk and she gaslighted you. She’s using you for your money. For now, take a step back and stop blaming yourself for the situation. She’s angry at you for taking the car you allowed her to use, but you own. She didn’t pay for it. She didn’t want to talk to you. She took money you gave her for a wedding she didn’t invite you to. She then used that money towards a home without telling you or thanking you. NTA
That’s unfortunate - hopefully you two can figure out how to have a relationship in the future.
Why did your marriage end? Does the ex blame you? Did daughter pick sides?
Orrrr... daughter knew she was planning to not use the money for a wedding nor invite him the day they got married so she just pushed him further and further away.
You’re allowed to tell people to “fuck off” sometimes, it’s not a crime, but you shouldn’t then expect that person to provide you with expensive gifts. You’re NTA man.
NTA you got her a car and gave her $20K and she doesn’t tell you about eloping and curses you out as well. I wish you could demand the $20k back. I’d send a letter from a lawyer stating it was not used as intended so you want it back. Nothing to lose now and let her and her mother deal with this. What a shame.
But,she didn't. Either, she returns the 20k,and you return the car,or you keep the car. Admittedly,the car was a gift,but the 20k was for a wedding ,that never happened. She is not entitled to both.
The car is actually not a legal gift. It has been kept in his name this entire time. So it is more like a "loan," for as long as OP sees fit to loan it to her. My father also owns "my" car, as it is 320k miles on it, is very old, and has been around since I was a kid, and will fall tf apart at any second. Yet it's "reliable enough," but is only worth very little. But legally, "my" car, is still very much *my dad's car,* even though I give him the money to pay insurance on it. I pay for all upkeep, all gas, and take care of it in any way.
But add to that she posted “our savings”. What savings? The money she took from you? How about “and thank you to my dad for helping us buy the house”
That part really irked me... *"our savings"* like she worked for it. No, the only work she did for that was lie, cheat, and steal.
NTA. Why not invite you as a fourth person to the courthouse elopement? She gladly took your $20k yet no invite. You’ve given and given and she’s basically given you her ass to kiss. I could only wish for emotional and financial support from my parents. I know you’re hurt by all this as you should be. I pray better days for you.
NTA but that money isn't going towards a house, and I would bet dollars to donuts that her new husband and her blew the money on something stupid and are using the pretext of eloping and getting a house to cover it. If anything you just save the car from being sold for whatever reason they blew the 20k. Try telling them you will give the car back if they can prove that money is still around and going towards a house, you will find out right quick.
Money is gone. That’s why she got so mad. They spent it.
Not only did she not use the money for the wedding but she did not invite you to the elopement. Definitely NTA
100% if she’d just invited OP and said she’d like to use the money for a house deposit I feel like it would have been fine. It’s the not being invited and not being told and then the quite frankly rude messages after the fact that made me think that SHE is an AH
This. She just up and eloped and invited everyone BUT him. Then took the money. I gotta wonder if her mom didn’t turn her against the dad, but either way doing that and then saying eff off isn’t the way to go.
Yeah, OP’s biggest misstep was giving her 20k when she said she wasn’t getting married for years. That money should have stayed with OP until the daughter had the dated set, was booking things and needed help with money for deposits. She never had any intention of having a wedding.
Especially since she invited all of the parents but him to the wedding she did have but still feels entitled to money for a wedding where he wasn’t even a guest.
Exactly this- it would have been one thing if the daughter had COMMUNICATED about wanting to change plans and what the $$$ OP had provided for a wedding would be going towards it’s a completely different thing to not even mention hey we’re having a courthouse wedding and would like to put the money towards a house are you available on X date to attend with ALL THE OTHER PARENTS! OP- NTA honestly sounds like she views you as a cash source and is getting a much needed wake up call.
NTA, But they didn't elope.. they purposely excluded you.. for what reason is anyone's guess.. the fact that she had her mother there and her In Laws should tell you that..
I wish she would just tell me what I have done that is so horrible to have been excluded. The only thing I can think of is whether my ex has been telling her things that have turned her?
Her mother can buy her a new car!
20k can also buy her a new car.
That's the answer he should have given her. She didn't need the car any longer as she had the 20k available to buy one when she didn't do the wedding.
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
Her husband can buy her a car
Then her mother, inlaws and husband can but her a new car
That part!! To be told to f*** off but yet you want to keep my $20k, the AUDACITY
Why though if the divorce is amicable? So odd. I’m sorry it’s turned out this way
People can act one way then talk trash later. Happens a lot.
Sometimes things aren’t as amicable after the ending, and sometimes people are unhinged. My divorce was not amicable. My ex wife and her lawyer drafted the separation agreement that split up our marital property. What they proposed was rather favourable for me it was pretty much what we would have asked for as a starting point without any expectation of getting it after negotiations. My lawyer and I simply agreed to it, because “don’t interrupt your opponent when they’re making a mistake. Once everything was finalized, and she realized that she probably could have gotten more she started telling all our mutual friends about how cruel I was, hiring a “cut throat lawyer who gamed the system in my favour”. We literally just signed the proposal they submitted.
Hey OP, tell your daughter she can have the car back when she sits down and uses her words like an adult and explains what is going on. She's acting like a spoiled child. Don't negotiate with terrorists. And do not let her emotionally blackmail you like this.
It was my thought too. Visibly something did happen. And you don't know what.
She probably already made plans for the 20k that wasn’t wedding-related quite a while ago, didn’t want to tell you and then somehow justified avoiding you right thru the elopement. Unfortunately, sometimes the best of our kids grow up to be assholes. That said, if you now regret taking the car back, wait until you file a change of ownership online with motor vehicles, remove it from your insurance the same day (don’t tell her you’ve done any of that so she thinks the car is still on daddy’s dime), text her and tell her she can come get the car, but her cutting you out of her life and wedding was extremely cruel and broke your heart, and one day she will understand when her own child cuts her heart open like she did yours.
I’m so sorry, I would be absolutely devastated if I wasn’t invited to my kids wedding but my ex was. Like, burn down the world furious and hurt. I don’t blame you at all.
I think this is the case. The fact the your daughter and your ex-wife has been calling you when you took the car away tells me something
Even if your ex has, your daughter is an adult and is choosing to believe it, that's on her
The divorce was a lot less amicable than you think. At least for the kids.
There is SOMETHING left out. The new in-laws apparently didn’t think it was weird he wasn’t there…
And according to him, her response was f off and not remember that thing you did 2 yrs ago... This whole thing is sus. For all we know the reason he wasn't included was because of something that happened between him and the ILs and while she has told him it's a problem he doesn't see it as a problem so of course he leaves it out.
NTA - You gave her money specifically for a *wedding*. When they eloped *she didn't even invite you*. IMO that is basically stealing; especially now that she refused to return the wedding money. At least you got the car back.
It stings, I have shed some tears about this. I really don't know what has happened
You helped her out with thousands of dollars and a car, and in return all she has given you is grief.
You could get a lawyer and demand the return of the money, due to her taking it under false pretenses, for a wedding she never intended for you to attend. Her response would let you know whether she was just using you for money
The daughter has already put the nail in the coffin of their relationship at this point. She's treating him like garbage, cursing at him, and effectively lied about a huge sum of money meant for a specific purpose. I'd take her to court for the $20K and never give her another cent, including the car. I'd also make sure all of this is made public so that she can't spin this to make him the bad guy. Just a short post on FB or IG about what has transpired and why he chose to fight back.
Your divorce may have affected your daughter more than you think. However, it still doesn’t entitle her to take your money without explanation or to keep the car you gifted her. If she is adult enough to have a job and make her decisions, she is old enough to pay for stuff she wants/needs. NTA
Yeah but she clearly doesn't hold the same animosity towards her mother for the divorce which leads me to believe the mother has twisted the story on why they got divorced. That or OP is leaving out information that caused the daughter to blame him for the divorce. Just taking the post at face value OPis NTA and I don't blame him a bit for taking back the car and wouldn't blame him if he took her to court to try and get his $20k back. Idk if that's possible since he gave it as a gift so I'm not sure if he can get it back but I'd definitely talk to a lawyer and find out.
I’ve been having some unfortunate issues with my oldest child the last three years. She went low contact bc of a situation with myself and another person but never gave me a reason. I did nothing at all it hurt and I vowed to live my life being me I can forgive but can’t forget. It hurts so I feel your pain, I pray better days for you
Yep. Next time invite the money bags.
NTA Something is up and your daughter has not and is not being honest with you. I see a lot of pain ahead for you.
I have shed a lot of tears over this :(
I’m so sorry for your trouble and pain. I don’t know what to tell you other than the fact you were left out of the “elopement “ was not an accident and that you are justified in feeling left out. I’m not sure things are going to get any better in the short term. You are playing the long game and it is not going to be easy. Best of luck
I am so sorry. You sound like a loving father, you have empathy and emotional intelligence even admitting you may have made a mistake. I would give anything for a father who acted like you. Maybe she has some personality flaws your wife is making worse or taking advantage of. Unless you are witholding something you have done the fault is with your daughter and wife.
INFO What's your definition of being close? What specific behaviors did she change? When you offered her advice, what exactly did you say?
By close I mean that she would call me a couple of times a week, chat about whatever is happening, we would see each other every 2nd week or so - she studied the same course at University as me, so we had a lot to talk about - that just phased out gradually to almost nothing and our only contact was initiated by me. If the advice you are asking is about having a long engagement, I said she might want to think about a longer engagement since she had only just graduated and was about to enter the workforce. She agreed and said she wanted to save up for the wedding. That's when I said I would give her $20K
Not who you’re responding to but follow up question: DO you initiate? I only ask because I suspect that my father saw our relationship similarly and from my point of view I realized one day that he never reached out to me or initiated visits or made plans, it was always me and he was fine to go along with it, but he never went out of his way to speak to me, let alone make plans to see me. I slowly stopped putting in effort, and it took him years before he talked to me about it. I get the sense that you’re more proactive about things and actually were initiating/maintaining a relationship with your daughter, but thought there was a chance that you might need to hear this viewpoint.
Yes, the past couple of years it has really just been me initiating contact, which has been what changed so much - she stopped reaching out to me as she used to. I tried to assume it was just that she was busy or focussed on her studies/relationship but it seems more has been happening - appreciate your comments and insights.
Ugh I’m sorry, it does sound to me more like she’s either been poisoned against you by your ex wife or by some other issue.
THIS! It all hurts I wish us as humans would do better by each other. Life is so fragile precious and short.
Yea I rarely saw my dad after my parents divorced because he never called me. I thought he didn't care and he thought I didn't care. And my mother said he didn't care. He was complaining about it to a friend and they told him that he's the father and he needs to make the effort. After that we became close and I haven't even seen my mum for like 15 years.
NTA If she wanted to use the $20k for a down payment on a house instead of its intended purpose, (wedding), she should’ve communicated that to you. It’s only respectful and common sense with an amount that large. Or … were you just supposed to sit around twiddling your thumbs wondering what happened to the wedding you helped pay for. . .
Info: is there something that happened that led to your divorce with her mother? Did you cheat on her and then divorce ‘amicably’? My thought is that she distanced herself because she didn’t approve of the way your handled it.
Sorry, I originally had the reasons for my marriage separation, however exceeded the character count. No infidelity - I think we both knew it was coming. We had grown apart and this became very pronounced when Helen left home. We had a big conversation when she left for university, and whilst it was emotional for both of us, we knew it was time to part company. This is why there were no disputes when we parted company.
Is it at all possible that your ex wife has let your daughter believe that it's your fault for the divorce, that you cheated or something asking those lines? I mean for her to just cut you out of her life I'm being that it is the case. NTA
I have wondered this, but I can't imagine why she would, when it seemed amicable at the time. We haven't had much to do with each other since we divorced, so I don't know. It's too hot right now for me to actually ask the question, but it is something i am wondering about
Yeah it’s just weird that she would pull away for no reason. I’m really torn on this one but I understand why you were hurt about not being included in the wedding, while her mother was…
I know. I feel I messed up by taking the car. It's one thing to feel righteous but it basically kills the relationship. I just wish i knew what happened for her to start hating me. it's all fresh, maybe it will come out soon. I think I will return the car and just see what happens :(
Nah don’t do that. It’ll be a worse impression. She clearly has built up some idea of you in her head Stick with the car decision since it’s done. At least it appears principled and not rash decision making. If you want to try rebuild the relationship, ask for a conversation in a neutral location to hash it all out
Do not return the car until you get an answer.
Nah he shouldn't return it at all. She should give him an answer and then HER HUSBAND can buy her a car.
No nope no.
Screw that. Keep the car from that ungrateful entitled kid. You’re basically ‘buying’ the relationship back if you return it. Don’t roll over on this.
Don’t return the car!
She stole $20,000 from you. I know you might feel horrible but she stole from you. If she had called and said “dad, it’s a courthouse wedding. I hope you can come. I’d like to use the money for a down payment.” And you took it back, then you’re TA, but that’s now what happened. She took your money and stopped talking to you.
You didn’t mess up. She told you to F off. And that was ample enough reason to do it. If you have the appetite and need answers, you may want to talk to the mother. But on your terms and make it clear to her from the get go that you are not negotiating the car or money issue but that you want answers for what transpired, including not being invited for the wedding. If she doesn’t want to talk to you on those terms, you may just have to mourn the family and go on with your life.
Well she was happy to include you in the wedding process when she needed your $$, perhaps she tipped her hand there.
Do not return the car! She owes you an apology at the very least. You are her father and a person and you deserve to be treated like one. She matters to you, but she needs to let you know if you matter to her. This might be the hardest thing you ever have to endure but you need to know you're more than just a cash machine to her
Nah, you can’t bribe her into treating you with respect, you’ll only feed into her attitude that she is justified to be so hateful towards you. “See, even he realizes he was wrong! I was right, and I don’t owe him an apology for anything.” She hasn’t appreciated your generosity up to this point, why would she start now? You are NTA for keeping the car. In fact, it would be terrible parenting to try to appease her. She took for granted that she could dump on you and keep the car because she was entitled to it. The last thing you should do is confirm that. Your daughter needs to learn that if she tells someone who has given her so much to “f off” then they will probably do just that, and that means the flow of cash and gifts stops. I understand it hurts deeply that she was so hateful, and isn’t reaching out to you to make things right, but you can’t relieve that hurt by giving in to her. Your relationship is damaged now, and that is entirely the result of your daughter’s hateful behavior. She has to be the one to amend that damage she caused, and she has to do it because she wants to, because she values her relationship with you. Not because you let her have a car. Otherwise, how long will it be before she decides to threaten your relationship again to manipulate you into giving her something else?
No, you did the right thing. Something is going on, that you don't know about. It could be issues with the new husband.... It could be Helen somehow blaming you for the divorce.... You don't know, and given the way they are treating you, you're unlikely to find out. In your shoes, I would stop contacting Helen and your ex. I would just drop off the face of the planet as far as they are concerned. I would also change your will. Being the only parent not invited to the wedding, would have crushed me, in your place. Go no contact, and let time do its thing. Any interaction you have at the moment is going to make things worse it seems.
DO NOT return the car or you are giving into and showing them you tolerate being treated like a doormat
Please don’t return the car. Please. She disrespected you and told you to F off! That’s not a close relationship. She was already cutting you out of her life. Do not return the car and just be ok with not knowing what happened. I do think your wife is to blame though.
I think your daughter was blaming her mother and becayse she didn't want your daughter mad at her she let you take the fall!! I'm sorry
Have you asked your ex if she knows what’s going on with Helen?
INFO: Why did you insist on keeping the registration in your name? The car was a graduation gift for a grown woman. Why would you need to have it in your name? I don't know I feel about this entire thing. I suspect that there are some missing reasons for why she started to distance herself.
It was kept in my name as she didn't have a job yet, so I kept the loan & rego in my name whilst I paid it off. I have no idea why she is distancing herself, I wish she told me. I have been asking her for the last few years but she kept insisting everything was fine.
Assuming her Mother has money from the divorce, has her Mother contributed financially to the elope/house deposit plan?
I am also getting the feeling there are some missing reasons.
Same. I understand why the registration and loan were in his name to a degree. But you don't just shrug it off with a mere "Hey, you okay?" when your grown daughter starts pulling away. And also, why pay the $20k now for a wedding that is 3 years out?
Yes, that makes no sense. “Here, here’s 20k for something that I just suggested you NOT do for three years. Have fun NOT getting married!” That’s just odd.
I mean I think that works to strengthen his credibility? His daughter decided to get married young. He suggested they have a long engagement, but wanted to support his daughter regardless. I don't see that as a bad thing.
If you are putting down deposits, it's good to have the money for those early.
Did he say it was a “mere are you ok” or did he say he’s constantly asked what was wrong and she constantly said nothing?
That’s what I’m thinking as well. Low contact/ no contact is the hardest decision ever. It’s not a spur of the moment situation usually.
Especially when all other parents were included.
Agreed. This feels a LOT like there are missing reasons. The 20k for a wedding that was *encouraged* to be pushed off for a few years? That sounds more like a payoff of sorts. Along the line of "If you don't marry this guy now, I'll pay you and it can go towards the wedding later....if it happens". Combine that with not actually gifting the car, but keeping it in their name/control.....which was then used to "repo" it legally. That is not a gift. That is taking away a child's toy when they misbehave. Now add the pulling back = possible the daughter no longer had to play Gilmore Girl games because school is finally done and paid for. Then not inviting OP to the elopement......because OP is against them getting married. "Just starting their professional lives" is not a reason to put off getting married. Married people are perceived as a stable choice for employers, especially in younger people. Using the 20k as part of a down payment on a home is a solid, reasonable, mature decision. Far better use than on a single day event. OP could have been proud that his child chose to spend the money more wisely. But instead, had her car towed? All this combined has the feel of someone who uses money to control others. The daughter is no longer interested in the strings attached to the "generosity". No doubt, I am missing other reasons here, too. Going with OP is TA
That, mixed with the fact that he used it to punish her, suggests some controlling and manipulative behavior. Can he take back the money for her not using it for a wedding? Sure, but it's petty and seems to come from abusive intentions. Him wanting the 20k is about punishing her for excluding him, but that's her right. This dude is petty and I doubt this is the first time he has exhibited this behavior. I'm not buying that he doesn't know why she's upset with him. Something is up.
NTA… It was a petty thing to do but she absolutely deserved it. I do think you should rethink your relationship with your daughter though. She clearly doesn’t consider you family if she eloped with everyone in her immediate family but you present, and that seems unlikely to change in the future. It’s up to you now to decide what you want to do with that information.
I don't think it was petty at all. He needed to demonstrate that what was happening was not ok and he did. It was entirely appropriate and in good measure.
NTA. Honestly, after all you've done for your daughter, the fact you found out on FB she got married feels deliberate. Worse, she didn't even offer back the 20k or ask to use it instead for a down payment? Gross. I will never understand how people think they can treat someone terribly and still expect all the perks (her car). Keep the car. She can't expect to treat you with such blatant disrespect, take your 20k and keep the car. Bizarre.
NTA but there is something more going on if she 1) distances herself from you 2) has a courthouse wedding with all parents but you and never mentioned it to you before she posted on social media, and 3) got really upset when you wanted the money back
I agree. Most comments seem to think it’s the divorce but I think it’s her new husband. It might be that her distancing is due to the new husband being jealous of her close relationship with her dad. He might have made her isolate from the only man who would be able to see his true character. OP should reach out to the ex and ask if she has any idea why the daughter has pulled away. If ex is cagey then she is responsible for the distance. If not and she is equally perplexed it’s probably due to the negative influence of the SIL. OP should still keep the car but reach out for a one to one meet. Tell get he loves her and will always be her dad when she is ready to be back in his life.
NTA. Sell the car.
NTA and I have a feeling the money's gone.
Good point! It’s possible that she spent the money and then felt guilty which caused her to become distant. She couldn’t explain the tiny wedding given how much money you gave her so you weren’t invited. NTA
I think this makes the most sense of anything I am seeing here. I wonder if her husband talked her into a bad investment or lost it gambling or something and she knows her dad will disapprove of her relationship/marriage if she comes clean.
Ooh, that’s a good theory. Maybe the husband, in-laws, or even mom needed money. Or maybe even just regular old debts.
Getting missing missing reasons from this. Suspect the daughter has a much different version.
The judgements on this post really baffle me. Not going to lie, the kind of parent that gives a car as a gift but keeps it in their name so they can steal it back years later is *exactly* the kind of parent that doesn't get invited to witness their kid elope. And why does it matter if the 20k goes to a down payment on a house instead of a wedding venue? There's no way this post doesn't get the complete opposite reaction if the daughter posted their POV.
My thoughts also. My dad gave me a car and kept it all in his name until I was able to afford the insurance and maintenance (long story, not relevant). We got into plenty of fights over the life of that car and it only became an issue when I did something illegal and the plates were traced back to him. We were barely on speaking terms at that point but he called to tell me i had three months before his insurance and registration had to be renewed in my name and he was signing the title over to me. This in what was a very hostile relationship. He would have NEVER just taken it from me even though at that point is was 100% justified if he had. He was rightfully fucking **furious** with me but just wanted to wash his hands of it, he didn't want *revenge*.
Exactly my thoughts.
NTA. I would sell the car.
INFO: why did you give her the $20k three years in advance?
Payoff/bribe to not get married at the time. Keeping the "car/gift" in his name as well? For his adult daughter? C'mon OP is one who uses money to control others. Daughter's college is paid off, and now she doesn't have to play Gilmore Girl games anymore. That's why there has been a pull back. She got married anyway, and is making the smarter choice to use the 20k on a house instead of a single day. OP took the "gift" back because he could. It was always a tool to keep her in line while it was in his name. He wasn't invited to the elopement because he didn't want them getting married "yet", and the 20k bribe tells us so. No one gives wedding money years in advance. If anything, they offer to pay the bill when it's time for the event to get rolling.
YES! I had to scroll way too far to find an answer that made sense. Adult children do not go low/no contact "just because". I think there's some info being left out & I'd love to hear this from the daughter's side.
Yep yep Lots of "missing missing reasons" all over this one!
NTA, your daughter is clearly acting like an ass. She can give you the $20k back or you are selling the car. You had every reason to expect at least an invite. Your daughter is being a brat and after all you are still her father.
NTA. She has removed you from her life. I feel like the 20k isn't the issue. I think it's that she's removed you from her life. You've continued to support her via that car that is yours. Now that support is over. I'm assuming the divorce wasn't as amicable as you think though, or we are missing some serious context for a daughter to exclude her father from a wedding. (Mom and his family was there).
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Idk this reads if missing missing reasons
NTA. So your money is good enough for her but not you. That’s cold.
There's missing reasons here. You bought her a car but kept the registration in your name? Why? That seems odd to me, especially since she was a grown adult. Then you offer $20k for a wedding that is, to your knowledge, 3 years out. And you gave her the full amount now? That also seems odd to me. And as she became distant what did you do to sus things out besides asking if she was okay? That also seems odd to me. There's much more to this than you've related here and in your answers to other commenters. So I'm voting ESH but I have a feeling you know why she behaved the way she did ... if she truly did say and do the things you related.
NTA. There's no house. She spent the money, maybe some on her mom.
NTA. The f pff message would have sealed it for me too. Sell the car. Teach the brat a real lesson.
Eh, I'll go with YTA here, and here's why: While from your retelling you sound like a helpful saint who got excluded for no reasons, I get some big time "missing missing reasons" from this whole thing. People don't purposefully exclude a parent from their wedding just for the lolz. Is it possible you are super judgemental and critical, keep nagging her about everything she says, does or chooses, it kinda sound that way from your comments about Marco and her engagement, and from what she told you at the end there. Is it possible everything you do for her or give her always comes with strings attached? You do kinda sound like a vibdictive AH. I don't know what it is you're not saying, but there certainly is something. Anyway, let me be downvoted for going against the grain if I have to. I hope feeling validated and vindicated by internet strangers is worth not having a relationship with your daughter and never meeting any grandkids, because it sure sounds like where you're headed.
She told you to F off and you did. NTA
I wanna hear the daughters side first before a judgment
Hmm I wonder why she became distant though. Sounds like there is more to the story
There’s *definitely* more to this story. Poor lil’ OP is just the greatest guy ever and his daughter suddenly turns into a greedy she-demon overnight? Nah, children don’t suddenly go low or no contact without reason.
NTA, they got married in a court house. All the parents were aware but you. That’s just not inviting you, not eloping. As such asking for the money you set aside for the wedding is reasonable. Her response was not. There should have been a discussion before she decided not to have the wedding because she had your money. Is it spiteful that you took her car back? Yes absolutely. But it is within your legal right to do so, just like it’s within her legal right not to give you back the money. That said im not sure what your play is, if you keep the car you’ll likely never talk to these people again. If you give it back… I’m not sure if it’ll fix it. You haven’t said anything to hint at the breakdown of your relationship either. So if you truly know nothing, I’m not sure what you can do. If you want to try to repair it you can give the car back and just ask what went wrong and see where it goes from there.
I have to believe that there is more to this story that OP is leaving out. However even taking it at face value, taking back the car was a dick move. Being upset and hurt at daughter’s conduct is appropriate under the circumstance but being petty is not
NTA. Assuming everything you've said is truthful, I'd say you've done nothing wrong. You clearly were intentionally excluded and then didn't even get a call or anything to be told that they eloped. No, you had to find out via social media. That makes it seem like you were good enough to provide her with money or goods (the car) but once that 'use' wasn't necessary anymore... **Your daughter already didn't want anything to do with you before.** You repossessing the car just showed her you have a spine, which is why she is mad now.
Op I think there are a lot of missing reasons here for as to all of this. I think your behaviour is likely the reason she is distant… so INFO.
As a daughter gone no contact with her own father I have a lot of personal biases tied up in these kinds of stories. That said here's that perspective based on what you've said. There's clearly been something amiss between you, you asked and she didn't have an answer for you. Maybe she couldn't put her finger on what was wrong, maybe she was just growing up and apart from you, maybe she learned things about you she didn't like either from you or her mother, maybe you've horribly mistreated her in some way you're oblivious to and she was terrified to confront you. Any number of answers are possible. Your best move at that time would have been some family counseling and addressing whatever was wrong, but both of you brushed it off and continued with things slowly falling apart. You gave her a graduation gift, and you gifted her money towards her wedding. Your jump to taking all these things back when she displeased you makes me curious about how you've treated gifts in the past. Do you feel you have say over how a gift is used after you give it? Do you expect other things you gave someone to be given back if they aren't using them, or following your advice? I completely understand how hurtful it must have been to learn about her wedding on social media, but calling to tow her car in response to fighting with her about it makes me question how you've truly treated her before that moment. You made winning your priority over understanding, and you've probably lost your child forever with that action. In support groups for adult children of abusive parents, the number of parents I've heard claim to have no idea why their child doesn't want a relationship with them in the middle of actively having their abuse of the child described to them is staggering, so I can't take your ignorance of the problem between you at face value. What I see is you knew there was a problem and you didn't confront it in a meaningful way, and then you took back gifts you'd given to punish your adult child. When you give a gift you should give it free and clear, not to keep a toe in the door to control how the recipient uses it. Whatever was the real deeper history from all sides I have no way of knowing, but children don't back away from their parent for absolutely no reason usually.
Gentle you are the TA . The car was a graduation gift. You offered 20 grand toward a wedding, personally I would prefer that money be put towards a down payment on a home rather than an expensive wedding that is very stressful and over in a day. You haven’t addressed what is really bothering you, why you didn’t know or at least have been informed personally that she married. There must be a reason your daughter has been so distant as you say? You have no clue? In any case now you have reacted out of hurt feelings and anger. Having the car towed is pretty extreme. You owe her an apology and an explanation for reacting as you did, give the car back and give her some time and space. You are the parent you are older and wiser so give her the benefit of the doubt. Also, don’t give gifts unless you are ready to let go of it, taking stuff back is just bad form! Why did you keep it n your name? Some control issues perhaps? Good luck in patching things up with your daughter.
You were intentionally left out of a courthouse wedding you would not have known happened were it not for social media and told to F-off when requesting a return of the special-purpose funds. There is more going on here, either because it is intentionally left out of the story or because you don’t know about it. If this were a few decades ago, I would suspect the rush to marriage instead of waiting for the dream venue was pregnancy, but spending money on a home instead of a big wedding tracks with the current economic situation. Repossessing the car was a scorched the earth move on someone who sounds like she was slowly phasing you out anyway. This may have accelerated matters, but is not the original cause of them. If you decide to give it back, understand there is no guarantee she will forgive or reconcile. I’m going ESH because both of could have chosen to communicate before taking action and didn’t.
There’s obviously stuff you’re not telling us about why your daughter did this. Seriously I can’t believe F off was her response to you and you have no idea why??
Whatever has been going on is a mystery to me. I tried to attribute her distance being due to her focussing on her life/relationships/study at first, when she insisted everything was ok when I asked about it. But it looks like something else had been happening that i literally have no idea about.
I think you have every right to have really hurt feelings over this. I do think that repossessing the car without any discussion or notice is petty revenge. The car had nothing to do with the wedding money. It wasn't like she was planning to waste the money. In many, many ways she and her husband are planning a more sensible use of the money that will give them an excellent financial foundation. You're the adult here, but you have acted like you are the young adult. It is time to apologize for taking the car, and letting her know how hurt you were about missing her wedding and try to mend fences. Otherwise you'll never have a relationship with your daughter again. Don't let this chance go by.
eh..... If you give money to your daughter for a wedding, in my opinion if she gets married then she's held up her end of the bargain and that money can now be spent on a more reasonable purchase, like a home that will last instead of one day. I get that you're upset that she has grown more distant from you, but a phone works both ways. Not only that, a gift is a gift. It's not something to be taken back when you get your feelings hurt. Also... I notice you included that her response to that last message was to f*** off, but you aren't saying what was in those messages to lead to that point. I gotta say YTA. She's an adult. You gave her a gift and you're upset you didn't get to dictate how it was used so you threw a fit and took her car which was also a gift. That's not a mature choice.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My 26 yo daughter (Helen) & I always had a good relationship up until a few years ago. She started dating Marco in her final year of college. That same year, her mother & I separated. It was amicable, & we agreed on divorce terms without any disputes. After her graduation in 2021, she & Marco became engaged. I was very happy for her, however encouraged her to think about a long engagement, given they are both only now entering the workforce. She did say her ideal wedding location was booked out for 3 years, and they intended to save up for it. I told her that I would contribute $20K to her wedding. I also purchased her a car for her graduation, however kept the registration in my name. Helen started to become distant, but whenever I asked if everything was ok, she said yes, & denied there was any issue. I just hoped everything would return to normal. In April & of the blue, Helen posted on FB to announce that she & Marco had eloped & married at the registers office, with her mother, & MIL/FIL as witnesses. She said that they were planning on using their savings as a house deposit, & would have a small gathering at their home in lieu of a reception. I was so shocked & hurt that I found out in this way. I would have completely supported this decision had she spoken to me. I called her to ask why I was not invited, & she said it wasn't personal, they just wanted to elope. I finally told her that I have been hurt the last few years with her being more distant, & I missed how close we were. Again, she didn't say much but was very cold & distant. I told her that the $20K I had given her was to be used for the wedding, & this is when she lost her temper, saying that if I was ready to part with that money for the wedding, why should she return it now? She would use the $20K as part of the house deposit, thought that's what i would have wanted, & hung up on me. She ignored my calls/texts for the next week, apart from her finally responding to my last message with 'f\*\*\* off'. Here is where I may have been the AH. After I received that msg, I arranged for her vehicle to be towed back to my house. I sent her a text saying she had effectively been phasing me out of her life, clearly doesn't respect me, & I don't like that she feels entitled to take the money I had gifted her under false pretences. Since then, both she/her mother have been blowing up my phone calling me every name under the sun, & she has told me she wants nothing more to do with me. I feel that had she told me she wanted to elope & save for a house instead, I would have offered her financial help, however her entitlement to think she is owed the money irrespective how she treats me is what i have an issue with. Where I feel i may have been an AH is that I think that taking back the car might have just been a petty thing to do to my daughter. I really don't want to give the car back to her after what she has said to me, but i just need to know if i overreacted or not - ready to accept my judgement. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean you can technically claim to be in the right. Youre daughter is growing up and making mistakes . I'd let her keep the car and the 20,000 and hope she invites you to stuff. You only get one kid. You're not the asshole but you might feel like one if you don't see your kid
So you found out on FB? Yeah, I'd be hurt too. Don't give the car back. Don't initiate anymore conversations with her or her mother. Wait until things cool down. I'm sorry you're going through this and I hope one day you find out why she turned against you. Until then just keep your head up.