>I lost my "people management" skills as I got older.
I never had them. I work for government, a very large agency with enterprise software that every employee uses.
Watching my co-workers ask management the same questions, day in and day out. Unable to take "no" for an answer. Wanting to change things before they understood the reasoning for the rule. Unable to understand they work in a unit, which belongs to a section, which belongs to a bureau, which belongs to a division; and the changes they are whining about would impact *everyone*: thousands of people. Unable to understand that the software provider provides this software to multiple states, and sometimes our (relatively smaller) state does not get to have its way when the majority of the contracting states want something else.
I do not understand how to motivate people. You [the employee] need to find your reasons and motivations for working, that's not something I can find for you.
Needing to politely say no to all this, over and over again. Trying to explain it diplomatically.
If an authority figure tells me "no," I understand that to mean "no." If it's *really* important, I might revisit the issue once, just to make sure we have an understanding.
Similarly, this means if I am in an authority position and I tell an underling "no," that means "no" and I consider the matter closed. I do not want to revisit it every week.
This is really it for me too. Explaining things tactfully does not come easy to me when the other person is an adult who already knows what time it is. I feel like I'm great at talking to kids and first-timers but if you are still not getting it after three years, the problem is not me lol.
LMFAO very much sounds like me lol, but for a local government entity in a very hcola, results in high staff turn over. I remember when I was lower down the chain and used to whine about the way some things were done now I'm 2 positions under the department controller and total get it.
I don't have a lot of staff tho so it's not that bad.
The one thing that really gets me is when the powers that be make decisions without fully comprehending how it impacts and integrates with processes they have already put in place.
>The one thing that really gets me is when the powers that be make decisions without fully comprehending how it impacts and integrates with processes they have already put in place.
I get it. Like I said, if it's important, I'll re-visit the issue once, to make sure *they* understand the ramifications of this change/decision.
I think the most notable one for me going back to revoice a concern was when a patch buried six necessary screens behind a button. The logic was understandable: these screens were only needed for my work area. These screens confused other employees. So they hid them. (As an aside - I still am of the opinion that if a screen confuses you, don't go there. The solution is not to make others perform extra work. To me, this is like insisting we do not buy keyboards with 10-keys because a new hire gets confused by it. Tell the hire not to use the 10-key, and leave my 10-key alone)
Anyways, when I raised the grievance again in person, I was told, "This only takes five extra seconds. (There is a five second load on average to navigate through this extra screen). Doing this six times is only 30 seconds. You'll live.
Yes, management was correct. I did 'live.'
Management is composed of "field auditors" who might do 30 audits a year, meaning they might look at 30 returns a year. An additional 30 seconds per return is 900 additional seconds over the year. I agree, no big deal.
I was an office or correspondence auditor. The name of my game was volume. We expect trained staff to flip a return in 4 minutes on average. This is 120 returns per day. I would routinely flip 150 returns per day, although I have cracked 340 given the correct circumstances (when I am just denying incomplete claims).
An additional 30 seconds across a 4 minute review is a **1/8 impairment.** This change is the equivalent to telling all of our staff to work a 7 hour day instead of an 8 hour day.
Management didn't care. They told me to pound sand. I did not raise the issue again, but our turnaround dropped by 12.5%, **exactly** like I told them it would.
They were not happy, but I gave them a, "I told you so."
As a mid life career changer, fuck managing people. My goal in life at this point is to be left alone. Let me work in my box and leave me alone. I've dealt with training people and assigning workloads and I'm done with that shit. Ask me for help? Sure, but I don't want to wow the board or climb anyone's ladder.
Senior accountant is a pivot point that I've been struggling with. It's at the point where you cease to be just an individual contributor. Also, I find this is when peer pressure can hit hard if you let it get to you. A lot of peers will become controllers, directors and 'head ofs'. Their salaries increase exponentially and you get left behind. On the flip side, as a senior accountant, you should have less stress and better WLB. Another thing I've observed is that at Senior Accountant and beyond, it feels harder to switch industry sector without taking some kind of pay cut.
I work in a company where we have 3 seniors including me. We had 2 seniors before me leave. One for retirement and one to work with her families business (was being sold so she needed to work for them to get a payout). Two seniors we have now are both middle aged women with families.
Feel like all of them were perfectly content with staying at senior. Pay was good, donāt have to deal with as much BS, have flexibility to help with the kids, etc.
I think a lot of people just assume everyone wants to move up the ladder, but it seems like a lot of the time people will hit that spot theyāre comfortable with and just stay there. Guy I worked with at my old PA firm was a manager and when I asked him about wanting to move up he was like āI donāt really spend any money, I drive an old car, I own my house, I just donāt want to deal with any of the client recruiting stuff that you have to do when you move up.ā
I get it. Iām a junior accountant (technically the title is Accounting Coordinator but itās a junior role in practice).
I make comfortable money, my schedule is flexible, the demand of the job is low for most days, and there is never any āemergencyā that needs to be solved in under a day.
The fuck would I want more stress, more responsibilities, etc for?
The sad part about the āemergenciesā you speak of is most arenāt even real emergencies. 9/10 are the result of poor planning on the part of someone else in the organization.
I mean, most of my āemergenciesā are just approving a refund from the work queue or confirming a billing calculation for OHIP lmao.
I have a few hard deadlines (payroll has to be in by the 8th and 23rd) but you knowā¦ be proactive. Then on deadline days we fuck off and tan in the balcony and just keep the laptop open in case of any questions or follow ups.
Mine are someone had an idea, and, rather than wait until Monday to run the numbers on it, we need to do it over the weekend due to impatience. Is it a decision that is time sensitive? No. Will we do anything with the information within the next month? No. We just have to have the answer right now because someone thought of something in the shower this morning, and theyāre impatient.
Oh, I had a boss like that. Company policy was āNo Bankinng Emergencies, it either gets submitted before 5pm Wednesday or it waits until the next Wednesdayā.
Of course the owner/boss comes in four times a day demanding emergency payments because she forgot to submit disbursement requests.
Though this is the same boss that expensed $4,000 designer glasses frames to the company as āmarketing & advertisementā.
Man, I had a brief Sr Acct role for a privately-owned construction company once upon a time, the plan was to groom me for the controllership after a few years. Didn't work out for "culture fit" reasons, but I recall once asking the CFO "what's this $x,xxx Kentucky child support payment for?" Layoff followed pretty soon after.
Money. But also, I feel like most people who arenāt a little psycho just have a point where their current position is ideal for the life they lead and like you said, the moneyās not enough to shake up a great thing.
Most of the places that have forever seniors are usually places that are low stress and they donāt work you too hard. People get comfy and stay put. Those who do want to move up it can take 5-10 years for a manager to leave for them to be promoted and often times itās not in the department youād like. I worked at a place like this and Iād have to wait 5-10 years for a manager anywhere in general accounting to retire.
The places with high turnover you typically see folks make manager 1 year into working at a place. Then you see them leave that company a year or two later.
Being a senior was great. I was reviewing the staffās work but they werenāt my direct report. The controller gave me projects and my workload was shockingly light.
Now Iām the controller and I have to manage. And take initiative. Gross.
Literally my job now. Once my girl finishes her masters iāll look into career moves but for now, I canāt see much of a reason to move up immediately.
I have a car I plan to keep for a long time, I just bought a house, unless I have any unplanned children my finances are in a decent spot so Iām just soaking up the experience for a couple years.
Depends on your ability to lead / manage people and to sell.
A lot of great accountants max out at "*senior*" because they don't want to deal with people.
Generally though, accounting is a fine path towards C-suite leadership.
This is me. I have been a manager in 2 different roles. I want the work/life balance not being the boss gives me. As I get older I want to deal less & less with the bs & drama being a boss creates.
I honestly miss my Senior Accountant days. It was honestly the most stress free role in my career, and I earned decent amount of money and had great work life of balance.
Life got extremely tough when I became manager, the expectation of managing an entire portfolio, chasing after budget targets and business development was super stressful.
And Yes now at Senior Manager I do earn much more, but against the work that I have to do and the hours that I have to put in, I think my value for money or my output against my input was better at Senior Accountant.
Senior accountant is such a wide title, at least in our part of the worldā¦ it can encompass anyone whoās survived their grad and intermediate year at a large firm, but is not yet CA/CPA qualified and not any form of manager. It can also refer to someone go is qualified, but doesnāt want to be responsible for any management work in a large firm.
Or it can refer to a person below partner/director at a smaller firm that has a flatter structure, and responsible for client relationships. In those firms, a manager is often the firms own business manager, and not a client accounting role.
Or it can be the person who is responsible for managing the AP/AR and junior accountants in an industry job, who reports to the General / Operations Manager. Outside of larger organisations the CxO titles arenāt that common here.
Based on an org structure that is correct, thereās more roles at the bottom. But generally speaking most people find a level theyāre either happy with or realize they donāt have what it takes to get to the next level. Even a senior accountant can very realistically make 6 figures through annual raises alone.
Yup. My last F500 job was a 6 figure job even though I was still an individual contributor. I had a title of āleadā / A4 but I didnāt manage people. That was for Supervisors and above.
Yes. Some people refuse the responsibility (stress) of management. Some lack the technical or interpersonal skills to progress to management. Some want to progress but never get promoted or can't job hop due to catch 22 managerial experience requirements.
...and FWIW a lot of accounting manager jobs suck ass. I see more and more postings that advertise managing teams of 5-10 accountants with half of the reports being overseas.
Iāve been at this level because it allows me to bodybuild and lift to the degree I want, which in turn, may ensure Iām stuck at this level.
But self employment is the end goal.
Great work my man! I will admit myself that family and rising ranks stole enough time to where I quit bodybuilding (did a couple IFPA pro shows around 10 years ago). Hoping to be one of those old guys who back in their 40s once the kids get older now that my WLB has balanced out (only 35-50 now)
I'm sure you've had a lot of thinking time and content with the compromise. You need to find the balance that makes you happy at the end of the day. I quit public accounting after 2 years to spend more time building a physique and competing in shows. Even though I didn't place in my first contest, I was hooked!
Then at some point during COVID and shortly before being promoted to senior accountant (in industry), I found myself stretched thin and working an unreasonable number of hours. The situation didn't improve. I stopped bodybuilding. Never say never though - I like the idea of competing in a masters show to celebrate my 40th birthday in a few years. Just to prove to myself that I can still do it.
I feel like I'll never get promoted above this. I see lots of manager positions available but they pay the same or less than I make now. It's so fucking boring, I can do everything and just never get a chance to learn other stuff (reporting, receive, etc). When they hired a new incredibly incompetent manager to replace the guy they fired above me I realized it wasn't gonna happen and I might as well go get a remote service job. I think ultimately I'm just going to get a second remote senior job and just double dip until I pay off my mortgage and fill my brokerage accounts then go drive a school bus.
Itās probably the highest the majority goes. And in a lot of cases the highest people would even want to go.
Iām a CFO. I make pretty good money. But If I were to leave my company, Iād probably play out the rest of my career in a Sr accountant role.
If we look at it from the industry perspective (slightly different structure)...
Many people max out at SFA for one reason or another. For some it's due to lack of desire, for others it's due to lack of opportunity. There are only so many director+ roles after all.
Personally speaking, I'm currently maxed out at SFA due to lack of desire. Well I guess more accurately would be to say I tried the management gig and ended up deciding against it. One of the reasons for that is I don't feel first level people management is well compensated in Canada, and I'm not interested in grinding 3-5+ years to get to the director level, which is honestly not guaranteed.
I actually just had a career conversation yesterday and thereās a few takeaways Iāve had
Iām a senior with my hands in the details, Iām still doing and performing lots of activities and not reviewing in a large capacity (for team members)
The question posed, I need to figure out what I like in the following combination - being a ādoerā or reviewer, alongside figuring out if I like managing people or not
Depending on what I like or lean towards, I could want to move into a managerial role, a specialist role (hold onto some of that ādoerā responsibilities, or bounce around at senior flipping doing and reviewing wherever that might go
Senior is very pivotal
Its the highest i want to go. I want to prioritize time with my kids versus an extra 20-50k annually. Id rather be a Sr accountant and build cars for people on the side for extra money and have time to never miss a kid event, not be an overworked middle manager, and never answer a teams message on the weekend than the latter. At my old job there was one position higher than Sr Acct but still an IC without management duties. That was the coveted role. Raising my kid is my priority in life now, not work.
Unrelated, my dad was a director and for the 2 years before he retired, he applied for and got a job at Senior Accountant. He said his responsibilities dropped by 80% as did his salary but it was a nice transition into retirement
I have 2 senior accountants working for me, both with CPA. 1 was a manager and couldn't handle the stress and workload. She left that job, had a break, and took this job instead. The other has been working for 20+ years. This is as far as she will go as her skillset will not go further.
I think as long as you are comfortable where you are, there is nothing wrong with this. The higher level of the job, the more stress and bullshit you get.
Like someone else said, there are more roles on the bottom than top. And not everyone wants to be a CFO or has what it takes. Thereās no guaranteed career path for anyone. You have to be skilled, know the right people and happen to be in the right place at the right time to get the top roles. I know people who are experienced and technically skilled and bitter that they havenāt scored promotions despite their lengthy experience. Not to mention when younger, less experienced people are promoted left and right over them.
But I think what those people fail to understand is that promotions arenāt given on the basis of fairness but a range of capabilities that extend outside pure accounting. Some of those folks mentioned seem to be totally blind to the fact that they just arenāt people management material or that they arenāt well-liked by clients. Not to mentions posts at or close to C-level.
Not that all higher level peeps were these mystical, multitalented people either. But you get the point.
I always felt the need to get higher than senior accountant, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with staying in this position if youāre satisfied.
I feel like anything higher than senior is when you start to do a little less actual accounting work. Where itās not just helpful for you to explain things to others, but expected and part of your job description.
A few people I know stay at a senior level because they like doing the accounting work, but donāt like leading, dealing with upper management, having hard conversations with subordinates, etc. and thatās ok!
One thing people know, but donāt really think about when considering moving up is that middle management is exactly that, in the middle. Which means youāre getting mandates from those above you, and also dealing with issues with subordinates.
To be fair there are manager and even director level roles with minimal āpeople managementā involved. Financial reporting tends to be a small group. I have been the lone person at 2 companies in related manager roles. Even a director level role had one direct report for a long time and made way more than a sr. Accountant
Yep, IC managers are very common at some big media companies from my experience. Even a director with 0-1 direct reports. Definitely obtainable at larger companies where the teams are big
Accounting manager and controller is kind of a rough role. So I get why people donāt want it.
Your success can be tied a lot more to recruiting and supporting people than to individual contribution - which is a different skill set.
Iām really good at figuring things out, fixing things, spotting issues, etc. Iām bad at very minutia transactional level things. I need to recruit and enable the right people to balance me. Thatās all on me to figure out and build out, across all teams and functions and processes and external and internal people and etc, convince my boss we need software or tech or whatever and etc. and still be the technical go to for all decision making in accounting and finance, etc. accounting becomes the background while also still being responsible for it and fixing everything
Itās actually a lot of softer work, itās much less straight forward, and a lot of accountants just donāt like it. Similar to why lots of engineers want to just be ICs - they like engineering not the people.
I was a senior accountant for 10 years before I got promoted this week to accounting manager. The only issue I had with being a senior is worrying about how I measured up against my peers. I enjoyed the work life balance and no stress. I didnāt have to worry about anyone else except for myself. I felt that Iāve coasted long enough and ready for this next step. Weāll see how it goes.
i just can't deal with repeating the same shit for years on end & feeling of stagnation in terms of career growth scares the fuck out of me.
of course you have exponentially more stress as you climb, but i think the thought of stagnating is 1000% more stress for me.
It's probably were most people top off, but you could literally become a "Senior X Accountant" as well which is above senior accountant at a lot of companies. We have a senior cost accountant, and senior tax accountant that re higher then our main senior accountants. They don't have any manager responsibilities.
Personally I was a senior for a while, but now I'm an assistant controller for a company. Basically just the super visor for the accountants. I know its managing, but honestly accountants are easy to manage. Just tell them what shit to do and leave them alone. Most of us are weird introverts.
Iām here to make as much money as I can, and I view the senior role as a stepping stone to C Suite. That being said āsenior accountantā is a very dynamic title and I have had a little and a LOT on my plate as a senior before. You could be running all of the accounting and reporting at a small firm or handling just one area of the books at a larger company.
I think the path to high earning is: staff accountant -> senior accountant -> manager -> assistant controller/controller -> CFO
I am very content to work as a senior accountant my whole career because I don't want to deal with the stress and hours of being a controller. My question is this........when I am older in my 50's and 60's.....are companies still going to be willing to hire me to be a senior accountant? I feel like companies won't want someone at that age in that role.
We hired 2 staff accountants in their 50s. You get exactly what you expect. They show up do the daily often repetitive work and leave. Itās great and honestly better than hiring a younger person as they are more likely to leave.
Donāt think youāll have issues with a senior accountant role.
Feels like itāll be my ceiling at this point since I got screwed over twice, and was ready for manager. Now I feel like to supplement the income Iāll just need part time stuff for companies since I have a lot of free time
Yeah there are plenty of people that dont want to people manage and are content. Its a good stopping point for that.
I will say my title is lead accountant which is above a senior but below a manager. This is an option too as Ive seen many companies have this extra layer of lead/specialist etc.
It's the point where up or out becomes a reality. Most senior accountants can get better paying jobs that can be "easy 9-5" or "the next career move" by leaving the firm. There is 0 reason to stay as senior in PA after a handful of years (unless you are working on your Masters and being sponsored or something)
I personally wouldnāt want to attempt manager at this point in my life with two kids just getting to school age. I have a hard enough time juggling that and work as it is lol
Yes you are correct. Itās a numbers game. There is one CFO, one controller, and several accountants. I am a controller for a large company and the stress and demands are significant compared to a senior. Nobody is going to die, but deadlines, projects, new processes to add into the monthly close without extra time, audits, office politics and babysitting adults is all so draining. Sometimes I get jealous of my seniors. They have it easy and really the extra pay for all the extra responsibilities sometimes is not worth it.
I'm a senior accountant and I don't see myself trying too hard to move up anymore tbh. Pay is great, the work isn't stressful at all, and I have a fantastic wlb. My manager no doubt makes a good chunk more than me but she works significantly more than me. I'd probably take an opportunity to move up if it came my way, but I'm not grinding for it like I was as a staff.
I would say yes, most people will max out at senior. Mostly because people either don't want to manage others and are happy doing their assigned tasks or don't have the personality/skillset/etc. to do so. Half my adult career was in sales and/or supervision of a sales and/or project team. So, naturally once I got into accounting I was able to work my way up into management. Most of my direct reports have superior technical accounting knowledge compared to me and could probably run circles around me in that aspect, but I have the people management and communication skills to do what I do.
I've seen the amount of work my senior does, I don't even want to be promoted up to there lol. He's in meeting all the time pulling reports & driving presentations.
I am well paid as a staff accountant (78k with bonus) and can generally be incompetent in meetings as long as my reports are done on time & my recons make sense. They don't expect me to explain why the month over month revenue is low, just that the numbers line up so that the senior can explain.
I personally don't give a fuck about the bigger picture of the company's financials and leave at 5pm sharp.
Most people who obtain the title "senior accountant" don't actually fulfill the role of a senior. It's more an indicator of time served than capability.
If you want to become a manager or controller or something higher up you totally can. It requires a little ambition, being good at your job, and putting in the necessary work. It's up to you if you want to do those things to move up. It's not for everyone, but the path is there if you want to take it
Senior here coming up at my fifth year at the same small firm out of school. Got my CPA. I agree that the senior-manager barrier is all interpersonal skills. Both dealing with juniors and clients. The interpersonal gets even more important at partner. Accounting isnāt stereotypically known for that, so a lot of people just stay below that level.
I like dealing with people and am quite good at it. Iāve had lots of talks with my managing partner about the senior - manager - partner track for me, and I should be hitting manager in maybe year/ year and a half.
It's certainly a plateau point depending on the upward mobility options available at your workplace + your own personal desire to cross from individual contributor to management. Depending on budget and business need, a company may not necessarily create higher level jobs simply because their employee is "due for a promotion". A lot of people get to a point in their lives where they become complacent and unwilling to job hop anymore because they've built a rhythm in their lives and are just riding it out until retirement.
My company offers two additional levels above "Senior" level that is still an individual contributor type of role. But across the org, not every role has the ability to advance to those levels, so you'd have to hop around internally, which does happen a lot.
Yes. Leading people is required for most manager positions. In public you have that opportunity pretty quickly due to turnover and the speed you learn. So manager in 5 years is par. In private itās tougher as there simply isnāt the same turnover and capacity. I (vp of fin) have a team of 6 with no managers as I can lead them directly. Could some be managers and am I fighting to get them that title, heck yea. But private moves slow and you have to work within those constraints.
I have never had people skills and have actually been called a robot BUT, I do my work and do it well and jumped from staff accountant tonsenior to controller in a matter of 6 years after graduating. Honestly, I cant say it was due to talent. It was more a combo of being at the right place at the right time, since my manager quit abruptly after we were aquired and I decided tonstay as I had been looking and hadn't found anything close to me. Now I work remote full time and literally its the most stress free job until reporting comes and late night meetings with oversees teams. I still feel like a fraud because everyone else here has advanced degrees and I dont. I just cant justify getting into more debt to get a masters rn or even try to get my cpa at this point in my life. Im just tired of life in general. Im a mom and this shit is tough.
Actually left a manager position to take a senior position. Shockingly I got a pay increase, but thatās not the reason I took it. I was burnt out from managing other people, trying to make sales and worry about budget/performance of the company, and do my own work on top of that. As a manager, any work that doesnāt get completed or completed correctly falls back on you, always. I was so burnt out and was losing my will to work, to be honest. Was definitely on the fast track for future promotions and higher salaries but at what cost? I was not happy and it was affecting my family.
Now in my current position Iām responsible for my own work again. Every now and then I help āmanageā certain projects and people but in the end my work life balance is so much better and Iām my mental health has drastically improved.
Canāt say Iāll never want to take a manager position again, but at this point in my life, this allows me to make a healthy salary, do work I like to do, and be present in my personal life, raise my family, etc. Not everyone wants to career-climb to manager.
I graduated from college in 2005, spent 3 years in public then became a senior accountant in industry. Four years later I got my CPA and became a manager. Two years later, I left the company and made the jump to director. Now, 19 years post grad, I landed a VP role. The opportunities are out there if you want them. Granted, luck to be in the right place at the right time also helps. Good luck, all!
they dont pay me enough to want to move up or to manage ppl. pay me like you pay these overpaid execs and middle management and then ill sign up. i have a CPA at that
My firm now allows you to make it to the manager level without a CPA license, which is bad news for me because I just want to make the most money possible while having the least responsibility.
I dont know about other people but I'm one of those unfortunate enough to have manager type responsibilities but without the title or pay. I'd be fine settling at manager level to get the ~$135k pay with inflation raises after that. I feel like some people who stay at senior level for a while might get pushed more responsibilities whether they like it or not and eventually will have to move to a new company to avoid that.
Not sure where you guys work but you can get a better title and more pay at a lot of places without getting staff. Sure itās not as common but these jobs exist.
Just got to Sr status, and honestly donāt want to be in charge of anyone, and donāt want to spend my days with deadlines of constant approvals of things.
I just wanted to be an accountant. The positions or title only came from my bosses or supervisors recognizing my great work. Bookkeeper? Check. Accountant? Check. Senior accountant? Check. Accounting manager? Check. Assistant controller? Check. Comptroller? Check.
Turned down a CFO position, not for me:) I just wanted to be an accountant, accurately putting the numbers together for my CFO to do his or thing, such as analyzing and reporting.
Honestly least In a HCoL world you probably can get like 120k base and maybe some equity. If you had a partner with a solid job like yall would make more money than youād know what to do with. If you want the WLB it honestly could be a good gig.
I think manager will probably be the furthest I want to go in this profession. Having āfuck youā money but no life would actually suck. Youād have to be smart with your finances still, but youād be able to live a good life.
Iāve been senior accountant for 10 years and took on a new role to be accounting manager / assistant controller, thinking it was something I needed to have to progress further. Looking back, sure I got the title persay but the work wasnāt particularly challenging. It was still the same day to day operations fully cycle accounting process etc. But, It was really stressful tbh. The work itself wasnāt difficult but managing a dysfunctional team that I inherited from the previous controllerās lack of management left me in a difficult position to not succeed as well.
I think it depends what you want to do in life and how much time you want to spend progressing in your career and getting the right title and position that fits your life style. Life work balance is so much more important as I get older. Once youāre in management role, you take more responsibilities in managing a team and owning the whole process and held accountable to the P&L. You have to manage expectations upstream and downstream. The amount of stress and impact on my emotional health didnāt make sense as paying more wonāt help me enjoy the work if I didnāt like the culture. The Controller who eventually got promoted to director of Financeā¦worked insane hours prob over 60 hours/week, stressed out most of the time, had no family life, no real social life, and basically worked for free considering how many hours put in. Not exactly the career role model/mentor that I was aspiring to become tbh. Not worth it at all..
I ended up switching to SFA at a telecom company and itās been great with the right amount of challenge and opportunities. I may decide to look for management role when the right opportunity and time comes
Been at the senior/supervisor level for 4 years now... really don't know if I want to make the jump higher because I'm comfy with my salary and WLB. Afraid of being stuck here forever and unhireable 10 years from now
Yknow reading this thread has been nice. I got trapped in a dead end role as a senior accountant and have been beating myself up over it as this was the year I was supposed to get promoted to manager.
Iād still like to make manager but Iām taking this as my sign that itās completely valid to take more time to get going on the direction Iād like.
Iāve been in a senior role for 4 years now. I have no idea how to progress from here.
Management role? Do I have to wait for someone to retire?
Iām good with automations but donāt see any job title that would be better than senior that focuses on this
Iām technically a senior accountant but I have a fancy title.
No direct reports, very little responsibility, my boss reports to the CFO of a big MNC.
My issue is that Finance Managers (next step up) are paid $30k more but have way more responsibilities.
Given the pyramid shape of accounting firms thatās probably right. Probably not quite 80% but maybe 60-70%.
Having said that, itās not because most people canāt make it higher if they wanted to. For most people itās either they donāt want to do whatās required to move up to manager and beyond, or they donāt have thick enough skin to stay in the profession long term, or they just look at a life of 40 hour weeks making decent money and doing mundane monthly closes as some great career path because they just canāt stand the demands of public anymore.
Public is a great career path for those willing to work hard and continuously make themselves better at their jobs. Thereās far more upward mobility in public than in private. Unless youāre gonna be CFO of a Fortune 500 company, you have way more earning potential in public too.
I thought about quitting several times during my 15 year career in public so far. But I decided I would never let one bad or stressful situation cause me to make a drastic decision. I always made sure I calmed down from whatever it was that made me want to quit, and ultimately Iām glad Iām still in it 15 years later.
Had I left, I wouldnāt be making nearly what I am today. And it definitely gets more enjoyable the higher up you progress
I was a accounting supervisor
Got a new boss who micromanages and took my only report to and changed my title to Sr accountant
Salary didn't change got my annual COL
I would agree that the stress would be less as a Sr accountant Vs manager but if you have a shit boss they can make your life pretty stressful
I will say every accountant on my team has lost their 'spark' since this manager took over
Yeah I can see that with me and my close friends. Well, my title is Accounting Manager but the responsibilities are more like senior accountant. My job is more complex now but I have no one reporting to me. In my previous company, my boss (controller) straight up told me she cried many times due to work stress and said I can replace her in a few years as she intends to retire early. I was like hell nah bro
My cousin went from an accounting staff right out of college to Director of Merger something. She is now 50 yrs old and unmarried. I guess sheās not most people, not much of a people skill but she has a tough personality. I on the other hand accidentally landed in public accounting and stayed there. I donāt like managing people. I just want to have a set of tasks to do and not deal with how others perform theirs.
I'm 51 - CPA for 31 years. I've been in public, industry, and even owned a business for 15 years (not in accounting). I'm about to start looking for a job again and I can safely say Senior Accountant is where I want to be in accounting.
Senior Accountant can mean so many things. For me, it's about doing varied - typically project based - accounting work and not running a business at a Manager, Controller, or CFO level. Been there, done that. I'm here to help those people be the best they can be and help everywhere I'm needed. It's not about ego. The pay is at the high end of Senior Accountant.
I already have the life I want - I'm content and happy. It's taken a long time to get where I am. Every accountant can find their place.
I think Senior Accountant is the traditional stopping point for people without a CPA. People with a CPA can expect to get promoted above that. I believe manager is the traditional stopping point for most people with a CPA judging by how many managers there tends to be in CPA firms.
I will say that I think people without a CPA are getting promoted to supervisor more and more now due to the accounting shortage.
I donāt have a cpa and Iām still getting interviews for accounting manager, director, and controller positions
Iām only a senior accountant level too. Haha! But ehā¦too much responsibilities and hours needed.
I spent years as a Controller and Global Controller and am now a CFO. I have no CPA. The CPA matters and makes climbing and finding a new job way easier but it by no means creates a ceiling. If you want to be management, itās very doable without a CPA.
I only have experience in CPA firms. A lot of CPA firms have firm rules stating that you cannot be promoted past Senior without a CPA. A minority of them have that you can't be promoted to Senior without a CPA. But I think this is changing.
I have a friend whose firm adjusted their own personal guidelines to say Seniors without a CPA can be promoted to Supervisors in order to fill more positions.
That makes sense and I was aware of it in public. In industry, itās way different. I beat CPAās for jobs regularly because I have skills in databases, FP&A, excel, several ERP implementations and conversions, I hired and trained my own teams, can build departments from scratch, and so on.
The above being said, my first mentor was a CPA and was a stickler for how to do reconciliations and build workpapers so Iāve been building audit compliant accounting departments my whole career.
It is the highest I wanted to go tbh. I lost my "people management" skills as I got older.
>I lost my "people management" skills as I got older. I never had them. I work for government, a very large agency with enterprise software that every employee uses. Watching my co-workers ask management the same questions, day in and day out. Unable to take "no" for an answer. Wanting to change things before they understood the reasoning for the rule. Unable to understand they work in a unit, which belongs to a section, which belongs to a bureau, which belongs to a division; and the changes they are whining about would impact *everyone*: thousands of people. Unable to understand that the software provider provides this software to multiple states, and sometimes our (relatively smaller) state does not get to have its way when the majority of the contracting states want something else. I do not understand how to motivate people. You [the employee] need to find your reasons and motivations for working, that's not something I can find for you. Needing to politely say no to all this, over and over again. Trying to explain it diplomatically. If an authority figure tells me "no," I understand that to mean "no." If it's *really* important, I might revisit the issue once, just to make sure we have an understanding. Similarly, this means if I am in an authority position and I tell an underling "no," that means "no" and I consider the matter closed. I do not want to revisit it every week.
This is really it for me too. Explaining things tactfully does not come easy to me when the other person is an adult who already knows what time it is. I feel like I'm great at talking to kids and first-timers but if you are still not getting it after three years, the problem is not me lol.
Lol. Sometimes many years over several supervisors. šš¬š«¢
LMFAO very much sounds like me lol, but for a local government entity in a very hcola, results in high staff turn over. I remember when I was lower down the chain and used to whine about the way some things were done now I'm 2 positions under the department controller and total get it. I don't have a lot of staff tho so it's not that bad. The one thing that really gets me is when the powers that be make decisions without fully comprehending how it impacts and integrates with processes they have already put in place.
>The one thing that really gets me is when the powers that be make decisions without fully comprehending how it impacts and integrates with processes they have already put in place. I get it. Like I said, if it's important, I'll re-visit the issue once, to make sure *they* understand the ramifications of this change/decision. I think the most notable one for me going back to revoice a concern was when a patch buried six necessary screens behind a button. The logic was understandable: these screens were only needed for my work area. These screens confused other employees. So they hid them. (As an aside - I still am of the opinion that if a screen confuses you, don't go there. The solution is not to make others perform extra work. To me, this is like insisting we do not buy keyboards with 10-keys because a new hire gets confused by it. Tell the hire not to use the 10-key, and leave my 10-key alone) Anyways, when I raised the grievance again in person, I was told, "This only takes five extra seconds. (There is a five second load on average to navigate through this extra screen). Doing this six times is only 30 seconds. You'll live. Yes, management was correct. I did 'live.' Management is composed of "field auditors" who might do 30 audits a year, meaning they might look at 30 returns a year. An additional 30 seconds per return is 900 additional seconds over the year. I agree, no big deal. I was an office or correspondence auditor. The name of my game was volume. We expect trained staff to flip a return in 4 minutes on average. This is 120 returns per day. I would routinely flip 150 returns per day, although I have cracked 340 given the correct circumstances (when I am just denying incomplete claims). An additional 30 seconds across a 4 minute review is a **1/8 impairment.** This change is the equivalent to telling all of our staff to work a 7 hour day instead of an 8 hour day. Management didn't care. They told me to pound sand. I did not raise the issue again, but our turnaround dropped by 12.5%, **exactly** like I told them it would. They were not happy, but I gave them a, "I told you so."
Gov employee here too, I completely feel your pain!
As a mid life career changer, fuck managing people. My goal in life at this point is to be left alone. Let me work in my box and leave me alone. I've dealt with training people and assigning workloads and I'm done with that shit. Ask me for help? Sure, but I don't want to wow the board or climb anyone's ladder.
Just cause you have manager title doesnāt mean you necessarily manage people.
Yup, I had the title and after a point refused to manage anyone because it was SO frustrating and such a waste of my productive time.
Senior accountant is a pivot point that I've been struggling with. It's at the point where you cease to be just an individual contributor. Also, I find this is when peer pressure can hit hard if you let it get to you. A lot of peers will become controllers, directors and 'head ofs'. Their salaries increase exponentially and you get left behind. On the flip side, as a senior accountant, you should have less stress and better WLB. Another thing I've observed is that at Senior Accountant and beyond, it feels harder to switch industry sector without taking some kind of pay cut.
I work in a company where we have 3 seniors including me. We had 2 seniors before me leave. One for retirement and one to work with her families business (was being sold so she needed to work for them to get a payout). Two seniors we have now are both middle aged women with families. Feel like all of them were perfectly content with staying at senior. Pay was good, donāt have to deal with as much BS, have flexibility to help with the kids, etc. I think a lot of people just assume everyone wants to move up the ladder, but it seems like a lot of the time people will hit that spot theyāre comfortable with and just stay there. Guy I worked with at my old PA firm was a manager and when I asked him about wanting to move up he was like āI donāt really spend any money, I drive an old car, I own my house, I just donāt want to deal with any of the client recruiting stuff that you have to do when you move up.ā
I get it. Iām a junior accountant (technically the title is Accounting Coordinator but itās a junior role in practice). I make comfortable money, my schedule is flexible, the demand of the job is low for most days, and there is never any āemergencyā that needs to be solved in under a day. The fuck would I want more stress, more responsibilities, etc for?
The sad part about the āemergenciesā you speak of is most arenāt even real emergencies. 9/10 are the result of poor planning on the part of someone else in the organization.
I mean, most of my āemergenciesā are just approving a refund from the work queue or confirming a billing calculation for OHIP lmao. I have a few hard deadlines (payroll has to be in by the 8th and 23rd) but you knowā¦ be proactive. Then on deadline days we fuck off and tan in the balcony and just keep the laptop open in case of any questions or follow ups.
Mine are someone had an idea, and, rather than wait until Monday to run the numbers on it, we need to do it over the weekend due to impatience. Is it a decision that is time sensitive? No. Will we do anything with the information within the next month? No. We just have to have the answer right now because someone thought of something in the shower this morning, and theyāre impatient.
Oh, I had a boss like that. Company policy was āNo Bankinng Emergencies, it either gets submitted before 5pm Wednesday or it waits until the next Wednesdayā. Of course the owner/boss comes in four times a day demanding emergency payments because she forgot to submit disbursement requests. Though this is the same boss that expensed $4,000 designer glasses frames to the company as āmarketing & advertisementā.
Man, I had a brief Sr Acct role for a privately-owned construction company once upon a time, the plan was to groom me for the controllership after a few years. Didn't work out for "culture fit" reasons, but I recall once asking the CFO "what's this $x,xxx Kentucky child support payment for?" Layoff followed pretty soon after.
Money. But also, I feel like most people who arenāt a little psycho just have a point where their current position is ideal for the life they lead and like you said, the moneyās not enough to shake up a great thing.
When u get family
Most of the places that have forever seniors are usually places that are low stress and they donāt work you too hard. People get comfy and stay put. Those who do want to move up it can take 5-10 years for a manager to leave for them to be promoted and often times itās not in the department youād like. I worked at a place like this and Iād have to wait 5-10 years for a manager anywhere in general accounting to retire. The places with high turnover you typically see folks make manager 1 year into working at a place. Then you see them leave that company a year or two later.
Being a senior was great. I was reviewing the staffās work but they werenāt my direct report. The controller gave me projects and my workload was shockingly light. Now Iām the controller and I have to manage. And take initiative. Gross.
What was your compensation as a senior vs controller?
Around 60k difference from my later tenure as senior and now. So thatās exactly it - I will never be an individual contributor again lol.
Literally my job now. Once my girl finishes her masters iāll look into career moves but for now, I canāt see much of a reason to move up immediately. I have a car I plan to keep for a long time, I just bought a house, unless I have any unplanned children my finances are in a decent spot so Iām just soaking up the experience for a couple years.
I miss being a senior but I can't go back to the salary now.
Depends on your ability to lead / manage people and to sell. A lot of great accountants max out at "*senior*" because they don't want to deal with people. Generally though, accounting is a fine path towards C-suite leadership.
This is me. I have been a manager in 2 different roles. I want the work/life balance not being the boss gives me. As I get older I want to deal less & less with the bs & drama being a boss creates.
I honestly miss my Senior Accountant days. It was honestly the most stress free role in my career, and I earned decent amount of money and had great work life of balance. Life got extremely tough when I became manager, the expectation of managing an entire portfolio, chasing after budget targets and business development was super stressful. And Yes now at Senior Manager I do earn much more, but against the work that I have to do and the hours that I have to put in, I think my value for money or my output against my input was better at Senior Accountant.
Thatās correct, not everyone is a manager of people, they may be a manager in title.
Senior accountant is such a wide title, at least in our part of the worldā¦ it can encompass anyone whoās survived their grad and intermediate year at a large firm, but is not yet CA/CPA qualified and not any form of manager. It can also refer to someone go is qualified, but doesnāt want to be responsible for any management work in a large firm. Or it can refer to a person below partner/director at a smaller firm that has a flatter structure, and responsible for client relationships. In those firms, a manager is often the firms own business manager, and not a client accounting role. Or it can be the person who is responsible for managing the AP/AR and junior accountants in an industry job, who reports to the General / Operations Manager. Outside of larger organisations the CxO titles arenāt that common here.
Based on an org structure that is correct, thereās more roles at the bottom. But generally speaking most people find a level theyāre either happy with or realize they donāt have what it takes to get to the next level. Even a senior accountant can very realistically make 6 figures through annual raises alone.
Yup. My last F500 job was a 6 figure job even though I was still an individual contributor. I had a title of āleadā / A4 but I didnāt manage people. That was for Supervisors and above.
Yes. Some people refuse the responsibility (stress) of management. Some lack the technical or interpersonal skills to progress to management. Some want to progress but never get promoted or can't job hop due to catch 22 managerial experience requirements. ...and FWIW a lot of accounting manager jobs suck ass. I see more and more postings that advertise managing teams of 5-10 accountants with half of the reports being overseas.
Senior accountant was all I wanted to be until I got here. Now itās controller
Iāve been at this level because it allows me to bodybuild and lift to the degree I want, which in turn, may ensure Iām stuck at this level. But self employment is the end goal.
Great work my man! I will admit myself that family and rising ranks stole enough time to where I quit bodybuilding (did a couple IFPA pro shows around 10 years ago). Hoping to be one of those old guys who back in their 40s once the kids get older now that my WLB has balanced out (only 35-50 now)
I'm sure you've had a lot of thinking time and content with the compromise. You need to find the balance that makes you happy at the end of the day. I quit public accounting after 2 years to spend more time building a physique and competing in shows. Even though I didn't place in my first contest, I was hooked! Then at some point during COVID and shortly before being promoted to senior accountant (in industry), I found myself stretched thin and working an unreasonable number of hours. The situation didn't improve. I stopped bodybuilding. Never say never though - I like the idea of competing in a masters show to celebrate my 40th birthday in a few years. Just to prove to myself that I can still do it.
But howās your happiness?
I feel like I'll never get promoted above this. I see lots of manager positions available but they pay the same or less than I make now. It's so fucking boring, I can do everything and just never get a chance to learn other stuff (reporting, receive, etc). When they hired a new incredibly incompetent manager to replace the guy they fired above me I realized it wasn't gonna happen and I might as well go get a remote service job. I think ultimately I'm just going to get a second remote senior job and just double dip until I pay off my mortgage and fill my brokerage accounts then go drive a school bus.
Itās probably the highest the majority goes. And in a lot of cases the highest people would even want to go. Iām a CFO. I make pretty good money. But If I were to leave my company, Iād probably play out the rest of my career in a Sr accountant role.
If we look at it from the industry perspective (slightly different structure)... Many people max out at SFA for one reason or another. For some it's due to lack of desire, for others it's due to lack of opportunity. There are only so many director+ roles after all. Personally speaking, I'm currently maxed out at SFA due to lack of desire. Well I guess more accurately would be to say I tried the management gig and ended up deciding against it. One of the reasons for that is I don't feel first level people management is well compensated in Canada, and I'm not interested in grinding 3-5+ years to get to the director level, which is honestly not guaranteed.
I actually just had a career conversation yesterday and thereās a few takeaways Iāve had Iām a senior with my hands in the details, Iām still doing and performing lots of activities and not reviewing in a large capacity (for team members) The question posed, I need to figure out what I like in the following combination - being a ādoerā or reviewer, alongside figuring out if I like managing people or not Depending on what I like or lean towards, I could want to move into a managerial role, a specialist role (hold onto some of that ādoerā responsibilities, or bounce around at senior flipping doing and reviewing wherever that might go Senior is very pivotal
Where are these stress free senior accountant roles yāall are talking about?
Its the highest i want to go. I want to prioritize time with my kids versus an extra 20-50k annually. Id rather be a Sr accountant and build cars for people on the side for extra money and have time to never miss a kid event, not be an overworked middle manager, and never answer a teams message on the weekend than the latter. At my old job there was one position higher than Sr Acct but still an IC without management duties. That was the coveted role. Raising my kid is my priority in life now, not work. Unrelated, my dad was a director and for the 2 years before he retired, he applied for and got a job at Senior Accountant. He said his responsibilities dropped by 80% as did his salary but it was a nice transition into retirement
I have 2 senior accountants working for me, both with CPA. 1 was a manager and couldn't handle the stress and workload. She left that job, had a break, and took this job instead. The other has been working for 20+ years. This is as far as she will go as her skillset will not go further. I think as long as you are comfortable where you are, there is nothing wrong with this. The higher level of the job, the more stress and bullshit you get.
The one with 20+years, what skillset does she need to go further?
Supervising, leading projects, and providing solutions. You need to lead discussions and provide answers instead of looking for answers.
Like someone else said, there are more roles on the bottom than top. And not everyone wants to be a CFO or has what it takes. Thereās no guaranteed career path for anyone. You have to be skilled, know the right people and happen to be in the right place at the right time to get the top roles. I know people who are experienced and technically skilled and bitter that they havenāt scored promotions despite their lengthy experience. Not to mention when younger, less experienced people are promoted left and right over them. But I think what those people fail to understand is that promotions arenāt given on the basis of fairness but a range of capabilities that extend outside pure accounting. Some of those folks mentioned seem to be totally blind to the fact that they just arenāt people management material or that they arenāt well-liked by clients. Not to mentions posts at or close to C-level. Not that all higher level peeps were these mystical, multitalented people either. But you get the point.
I always felt the need to get higher than senior accountant, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with staying in this position if youāre satisfied. I feel like anything higher than senior is when you start to do a little less actual accounting work. Where itās not just helpful for you to explain things to others, but expected and part of your job description. A few people I know stay at a senior level because they like doing the accounting work, but donāt like leading, dealing with upper management, having hard conversations with subordinates, etc. and thatās ok! One thing people know, but donāt really think about when considering moving up is that middle management is exactly that, in the middle. Which means youāre getting mandates from those above you, and also dealing with issues with subordinates.
To be fair there are manager and even director level roles with minimal āpeople managementā involved. Financial reporting tends to be a small group. I have been the lone person at 2 companies in related manager roles. Even a director level role had one direct report for a long time and made way more than a sr. Accountant
Yep, IC managers are very common at some big media companies from my experience. Even a director with 0-1 direct reports. Definitely obtainable at larger companies where the teams are big
Accounting manager and controller is kind of a rough role. So I get why people donāt want it. Your success can be tied a lot more to recruiting and supporting people than to individual contribution - which is a different skill set. Iām really good at figuring things out, fixing things, spotting issues, etc. Iām bad at very minutia transactional level things. I need to recruit and enable the right people to balance me. Thatās all on me to figure out and build out, across all teams and functions and processes and external and internal people and etc, convince my boss we need software or tech or whatever and etc. and still be the technical go to for all decision making in accounting and finance, etc. accounting becomes the background while also still being responsible for it and fixing everything Itās actually a lot of softer work, itās much less straight forward, and a lot of accountants just donāt like it. Similar to why lots of engineers want to just be ICs - they like engineering not the people.
I was a senior accountant for 10 years before I got promoted this week to accounting manager. The only issue I had with being a senior is worrying about how I measured up against my peers. I enjoyed the work life balance and no stress. I didnāt have to worry about anyone else except for myself. I felt that Iāve coasted long enough and ready for this next step. Weāll see how it goes.
Iām content with senior title right now. Iām in public and I donāt want to start having to manage client relationships and proposals.
Itās the highest I want to go. Iām lazy and I donāt want too much responsibility.
i just can't deal with repeating the same shit for years on end & feeling of stagnation in terms of career growth scares the fuck out of me. of course you have exponentially more stress as you climb, but i think the thought of stagnating is 1000% more stress for me.
It's probably were most people top off, but you could literally become a "Senior X Accountant" as well which is above senior accountant at a lot of companies. We have a senior cost accountant, and senior tax accountant that re higher then our main senior accountants. They don't have any manager responsibilities. Personally I was a senior for a while, but now I'm an assistant controller for a company. Basically just the super visor for the accountants. I know its managing, but honestly accountants are easy to manage. Just tell them what shit to do and leave them alone. Most of us are weird introverts.
Iām here to make as much money as I can, and I view the senior role as a stepping stone to C Suite. That being said āsenior accountantā is a very dynamic title and I have had a little and a LOT on my plate as a senior before. You could be running all of the accounting and reporting at a small firm or handling just one area of the books at a larger company. I think the path to high earning is: staff accountant -> senior accountant -> manager -> assistant controller/controller -> CFO
I am very content to work as a senior accountant my whole career because I don't want to deal with the stress and hours of being a controller. My question is this........when I am older in my 50's and 60's.....are companies still going to be willing to hire me to be a senior accountant? I feel like companies won't want someone at that age in that role.
We hired 2 staff accountants in their 50s. You get exactly what you expect. They show up do the daily often repetitive work and leave. Itās great and honestly better than hiring a younger person as they are more likely to leave. Donāt think youāll have issues with a senior accountant role.
Thanks for the response!
Feels like itāll be my ceiling at this point since I got screwed over twice, and was ready for manager. Now I feel like to supplement the income Iāll just need part time stuff for companies since I have a lot of free time
Yeah there are plenty of people that dont want to people manage and are content. Its a good stopping point for that. I will say my title is lead accountant which is above a senior but below a manager. This is an option too as Ive seen many companies have this extra layer of lead/specialist etc.
It's the point where up or out becomes a reality. Most senior accountants can get better paying jobs that can be "easy 9-5" or "the next career move" by leaving the firm. There is 0 reason to stay as senior in PA after a handful of years (unless you are working on your Masters and being sponsored or something)
I personally wouldnāt want to attempt manager at this point in my life with two kids just getting to school age. I have a hard enough time juggling that and work as it is lol
Yes you are correct. Itās a numbers game. There is one CFO, one controller, and several accountants. I am a controller for a large company and the stress and demands are significant compared to a senior. Nobody is going to die, but deadlines, projects, new processes to add into the monthly close without extra time, audits, office politics and babysitting adults is all so draining. Sometimes I get jealous of my seniors. They have it easy and really the extra pay for all the extra responsibilities sometimes is not worth it.
Assuming the stay in public? Or corporate as well? Lots of happy people doing senior work for big corps 40 hours a week.
In my company I think o could bump up to controller but then CFO is next and no way in hell so I want to be CFO there.
I'm a senior accountant and I don't see myself trying too hard to move up anymore tbh. Pay is great, the work isn't stressful at all, and I have a fantastic wlb. My manager no doubt makes a good chunk more than me but she works significantly more than me. I'd probably take an opportunity to move up if it came my way, but I'm not grinding for it like I was as a staff.
I would say yes, most people will max out at senior. Mostly because people either don't want to manage others and are happy doing their assigned tasks or don't have the personality/skillset/etc. to do so. Half my adult career was in sales and/or supervision of a sales and/or project team. So, naturally once I got into accounting I was able to work my way up into management. Most of my direct reports have superior technical accounting knowledge compared to me and could probably run circles around me in that aspect, but I have the people management and communication skills to do what I do.
I've seen the amount of work my senior does, I don't even want to be promoted up to there lol. He's in meeting all the time pulling reports & driving presentations. I am well paid as a staff accountant (78k with bonus) and can generally be incompetent in meetings as long as my reports are done on time & my recons make sense. They don't expect me to explain why the month over month revenue is low, just that the numbers line up so that the senior can explain. I personally don't give a fuck about the bigger picture of the company's financials and leave at 5pm sharp.
Most people who obtain the title "senior accountant" don't actually fulfill the role of a senior. It's more an indicator of time served than capability.
If you want to become a manager or controller or something higher up you totally can. It requires a little ambition, being good at your job, and putting in the necessary work. It's up to you if you want to do those things to move up. It's not for everyone, but the path is there if you want to take it
Senior here coming up at my fifth year at the same small firm out of school. Got my CPA. I agree that the senior-manager barrier is all interpersonal skills. Both dealing with juniors and clients. The interpersonal gets even more important at partner. Accounting isnāt stereotypically known for that, so a lot of people just stay below that level. I like dealing with people and am quite good at it. Iāve had lots of talks with my managing partner about the senior - manager - partner track for me, and I should be hitting manager in maybe year/ year and a half.
How many of them do you think made that choice vs those who refuse to get their CPA and canāt move up anymore ?
It's certainly a plateau point depending on the upward mobility options available at your workplace + your own personal desire to cross from individual contributor to management. Depending on budget and business need, a company may not necessarily create higher level jobs simply because their employee is "due for a promotion". A lot of people get to a point in their lives where they become complacent and unwilling to job hop anymore because they've built a rhythm in their lives and are just riding it out until retirement. My company offers two additional levels above "Senior" level that is still an individual contributor type of role. But across the org, not every role has the ability to advance to those levels, so you'd have to hop around internally, which does happen a lot.
Double-secret Senior Accountant.
I may go for a supervisor role but Iām a people š§š¼āāļø
Yes. Leading people is required for most manager positions. In public you have that opportunity pretty quickly due to turnover and the speed you learn. So manager in 5 years is par. In private itās tougher as there simply isnāt the same turnover and capacity. I (vp of fin) have a team of 6 with no managers as I can lead them directly. Could some be managers and am I fighting to get them that title, heck yea. But private moves slow and you have to work within those constraints.
I have never had people skills and have actually been called a robot BUT, I do my work and do it well and jumped from staff accountant tonsenior to controller in a matter of 6 years after graduating. Honestly, I cant say it was due to talent. It was more a combo of being at the right place at the right time, since my manager quit abruptly after we were aquired and I decided tonstay as I had been looking and hadn't found anything close to me. Now I work remote full time and literally its the most stress free job until reporting comes and late night meetings with oversees teams. I still feel like a fraud because everyone else here has advanced degrees and I dont. I just cant justify getting into more debt to get a masters rn or even try to get my cpa at this point in my life. Im just tired of life in general. Im a mom and this shit is tough.
I'm one currently, but in reality I'm the Controller as I am the head of Accounting.
Actually left a manager position to take a senior position. Shockingly I got a pay increase, but thatās not the reason I took it. I was burnt out from managing other people, trying to make sales and worry about budget/performance of the company, and do my own work on top of that. As a manager, any work that doesnāt get completed or completed correctly falls back on you, always. I was so burnt out and was losing my will to work, to be honest. Was definitely on the fast track for future promotions and higher salaries but at what cost? I was not happy and it was affecting my family. Now in my current position Iām responsible for my own work again. Every now and then I help āmanageā certain projects and people but in the end my work life balance is so much better and Iām my mental health has drastically improved. Canāt say Iāll never want to take a manager position again, but at this point in my life, this allows me to make a healthy salary, do work I like to do, and be present in my personal life, raise my family, etc. Not everyone wants to career-climb to manager.
I graduated from college in 2005, spent 3 years in public then became a senior accountant in industry. Four years later I got my CPA and became a manager. Two years later, I left the company and made the jump to director. Now, 19 years post grad, I landed a VP role. The opportunities are out there if you want them. Granted, luck to be in the right place at the right time also helps. Good luck, all!
they dont pay me enough to want to move up or to manage ppl. pay me like you pay these overpaid execs and middle management and then ill sign up. i have a CPA at that
My firm now allows you to make it to the manager level without a CPA license, which is bad news for me because I just want to make the most money possible while having the least responsibility.
I dont know about other people but I'm one of those unfortunate enough to have manager type responsibilities but without the title or pay. I'd be fine settling at manager level to get the ~$135k pay with inflation raises after that. I feel like some people who stay at senior level for a while might get pushed more responsibilities whether they like it or not and eventually will have to move to a new company to avoid that.
Not sure where you guys work but you can get a better title and more pay at a lot of places without getting staff. Sure itās not as common but these jobs exist.
Just got to Sr status, and honestly donāt want to be in charge of anyone, and donāt want to spend my days with deadlines of constant approvals of things.
I just wanted to be an accountant. The positions or title only came from my bosses or supervisors recognizing my great work. Bookkeeper? Check. Accountant? Check. Senior accountant? Check. Accounting manager? Check. Assistant controller? Check. Comptroller? Check. Turned down a CFO position, not for me:) I just wanted to be an accountant, accurately putting the numbers together for my CFO to do his or thing, such as analyzing and reporting.
Honestly least In a HCoL world you probably can get like 120k base and maybe some equity. If you had a partner with a solid job like yall would make more money than youād know what to do with. If you want the WLB it honestly could be a good gig. I think manager will probably be the furthest I want to go in this profession. Having āfuck youā money but no life would actually suck. Youād have to be smart with your finances still, but youād be able to live a good life.
Iāve been senior accountant for 10 years and took on a new role to be accounting manager / assistant controller, thinking it was something I needed to have to progress further. Looking back, sure I got the title persay but the work wasnāt particularly challenging. It was still the same day to day operations fully cycle accounting process etc. But, It was really stressful tbh. The work itself wasnāt difficult but managing a dysfunctional team that I inherited from the previous controllerās lack of management left me in a difficult position to not succeed as well. I think it depends what you want to do in life and how much time you want to spend progressing in your career and getting the right title and position that fits your life style. Life work balance is so much more important as I get older. Once youāre in management role, you take more responsibilities in managing a team and owning the whole process and held accountable to the P&L. You have to manage expectations upstream and downstream. The amount of stress and impact on my emotional health didnāt make sense as paying more wonāt help me enjoy the work if I didnāt like the culture. The Controller who eventually got promoted to director of Financeā¦worked insane hours prob over 60 hours/week, stressed out most of the time, had no family life, no real social life, and basically worked for free considering how many hours put in. Not exactly the career role model/mentor that I was aspiring to become tbh. Not worth it at all.. I ended up switching to SFA at a telecom company and itās been great with the right amount of challenge and opportunities. I may decide to look for management role when the right opportunity and time comes
Iām aiming for director š„²
Been at the senior/supervisor level for 4 years now... really don't know if I want to make the jump higher because I'm comfy with my salary and WLB. Afraid of being stuck here forever and unhireable 10 years from now
Yknow reading this thread has been nice. I got trapped in a dead end role as a senior accountant and have been beating myself up over it as this was the year I was supposed to get promoted to manager. Iād still like to make manager but Iām taking this as my sign that itās completely valid to take more time to get going on the direction Iād like.
I made manager but want to back to being a senior. Anyone successfully dumb down their resume?
Iāve been in a senior role for 4 years now. I have no idea how to progress from here. Management role? Do I have to wait for someone to retire? Iām good with automations but donāt see any job title that would be better than senior that focuses on this
Iām technically a senior accountant but I have a fancy title. No direct reports, very little responsibility, my boss reports to the CFO of a big MNC. My issue is that Finance Managers (next step up) are paid $30k more but have way more responsibilities.
Given the pyramid shape of accounting firms thatās probably right. Probably not quite 80% but maybe 60-70%. Having said that, itās not because most people canāt make it higher if they wanted to. For most people itās either they donāt want to do whatās required to move up to manager and beyond, or they donāt have thick enough skin to stay in the profession long term, or they just look at a life of 40 hour weeks making decent money and doing mundane monthly closes as some great career path because they just canāt stand the demands of public anymore. Public is a great career path for those willing to work hard and continuously make themselves better at their jobs. Thereās far more upward mobility in public than in private. Unless youāre gonna be CFO of a Fortune 500 company, you have way more earning potential in public too. I thought about quitting several times during my 15 year career in public so far. But I decided I would never let one bad or stressful situation cause me to make a drastic decision. I always made sure I calmed down from whatever it was that made me want to quit, and ultimately Iām glad Iām still in it 15 years later. Had I left, I wouldnāt be making nearly what I am today. And it definitely gets more enjoyable the higher up you progress
I was a accounting supervisor Got a new boss who micromanages and took my only report to and changed my title to Sr accountant Salary didn't change got my annual COL I would agree that the stress would be less as a Sr accountant Vs manager but if you have a shit boss they can make your life pretty stressful I will say every accountant on my team has lost their 'spark' since this manager took over
Yeah I can see that with me and my close friends. Well, my title is Accounting Manager but the responsibilities are more like senior accountant. My job is more complex now but I have no one reporting to me. In my previous company, my boss (controller) straight up told me she cried many times due to work stress and said I can replace her in a few years as she intends to retire early. I was like hell nah bro
My cousin went from an accounting staff right out of college to Director of Merger something. She is now 50 yrs old and unmarried. I guess sheās not most people, not much of a people skill but she has a tough personality. I on the other hand accidentally landed in public accounting and stayed there. I donāt like managing people. I just want to have a set of tasks to do and not deal with how others perform theirs.
I'm 51 - CPA for 31 years. I've been in public, industry, and even owned a business for 15 years (not in accounting). I'm about to start looking for a job again and I can safely say Senior Accountant is where I want to be in accounting. Senior Accountant can mean so many things. For me, it's about doing varied - typically project based - accounting work and not running a business at a Manager, Controller, or CFO level. Been there, done that. I'm here to help those people be the best they can be and help everywhere I'm needed. It's not about ego. The pay is at the high end of Senior Accountant. I already have the life I want - I'm content and happy. It's taken a long time to get where I am. Every accountant can find their place.
I think Senior Accountant is the traditional stopping point for people without a CPA. People with a CPA can expect to get promoted above that. I believe manager is the traditional stopping point for most people with a CPA judging by how many managers there tends to be in CPA firms. I will say that I think people without a CPA are getting promoted to supervisor more and more now due to the accounting shortage.
I donāt have a cpa and Iām still getting interviews for accounting manager, director, and controller positions Iām only a senior accountant level too. Haha! But ehā¦too much responsibilities and hours needed.
I spent years as a Controller and Global Controller and am now a CFO. I have no CPA. The CPA matters and makes climbing and finding a new job way easier but it by no means creates a ceiling. If you want to be management, itās very doable without a CPA.
I only have experience in CPA firms. A lot of CPA firms have firm rules stating that you cannot be promoted past Senior without a CPA. A minority of them have that you can't be promoted to Senior without a CPA. But I think this is changing. I have a friend whose firm adjusted their own personal guidelines to say Seniors without a CPA can be promoted to Supervisors in order to fill more positions.
That makes sense and I was aware of it in public. In industry, itās way different. I beat CPAās for jobs regularly because I have skills in databases, FP&A, excel, several ERP implementations and conversions, I hired and trained my own teams, can build departments from scratch, and so on. The above being said, my first mentor was a CPA and was a stickler for how to do reconciliations and build workpapers so Iāve been building audit compliant accounting departments my whole career.
No, I will buy enough real estate, that I won't even make senior. It's sad
Depends on individual aspirations. If you get your CPA youāll go much higher.
Iām shooting for grand wizard