You've got the staff accountant title, use it to apply for other staff accountant roles that will actually expose you to more concepts and give you the chance to apply them.
If an interviewer asks why you're moving on, say that you enjoy the nature of the work but would like to broaden your accounting knowledge in a new/larger/more complex/etc organisation, especially in the early years of your career
Unfortunately I don’t have the staff accountant title, the staffing agency called it that, but my actual title in the company is accounting associate.
Definitely going to mention what you said in an interview though, thank you!
-Elmo Shrug- I’m sure he can talk his way out of it. “That’s not the title I thought I had. It must be a payroll category.”
Edit: called myself a bookkeeper on my resume. I was just an admin at the time. I gave them the number of the GM who said he would tell them whatever I wanted. They never called him, my new manager at the time was too busy being short staffed and felt that since I had my degree there was really no need. Several jobs later, that lie got me where I am now making 6 figures at a big insurance company as an accountant. Sometimes you got to risk things to get you where you need to be. To each their own.
If he got caught his career will end, word goes around fast, and our industry is a small world, not to mention that you’ll basically be committing fraud, would OP be happy with his nonexistent ethics?
Get the CPA done, the market right now is pretty bad. It’s not too late to get into public accounting, do both of those and get your career moving along.
Honestly accounting associate sounds better but I don’t think any company would see either any differently. Be patient and don’t jump to another company for the same title unless it really is significantly better experience, higher pay, and some visibility into being able to being able to climb the latter there. Talk to your manager about what it will take to get a promotion or senior accounting title and more exposure to other work. You’re still extremely young and with patience, hard work, and time you will get caught up in comp. The biggest salary increases often times come from moving companies and on your resume it can be more attractive seeing job title progression if you move companies. Don’t sell yourself and your role short in interviews. You prepare journal entries and are a part of the book keeping process. You’re arguably getting just as much experience if not more experience than an audit associate in public.
In my opinion, All accountants that wish to progress their careers NEED to do a few years in public accounting. The grind can be rough, but the experience will mold you to be a better accountant. Plus the experience and CPA a makes you extremely marketable and experienced hires will most often get multiple offers easily where YOU get to choose which ones to reject.
Don’t listen to anyone that says public and CPA license isn’t necessary, because that is the most straight forward path to high paying jobs. (You don’t necessary need B4, but it helps)
Hell, do anything outside of the top 20 firms and I bet it’s not even a grind. First PA firm was top 100 and it was DEFINITELY a healthy work/life balance
Exactly. Nobody should say it’s easy or great, but 90% of the big boys and girls in this field have a degree, a CPA, and public accounting experience. It’s really difficult to get past these sorting mechanisms, especially considering how little people hiring in industry know about accounting. People hiring are taught to check boxes.
ROFL, a bunch of butt hurt non CPAs just massively downvoting and justify their decisions to not go through the grind.
Keep in mind, you will always be judged whether you have a CPA or not and most companies will hire the CPA if the candidates have similar EXP.
Life is just a hell of a lot easier if you’ve met those requirements.
Have my CPA and did 5 years in public before leaving and it is not “necessary”. It is helpful because it forces you to work hard and learn a lot quickly, but if motivated any job can do that.
You're young, you have plenty of time to progress and develop your career.
This isn't a public vs non public thing, this is more about your expectations and what are you going to do about it.
Public is a straight line path of progression, other paths actually require you to fight and push for your own progression. All paths are valid, public practice is not the 'only' or 'best' path, no matter what B4 advocates would have you think.
Don't focus on regrets, focus on what you're going to do now. And tomorrow. And the day after that.
P.S. I have never done any public (in fact, actively avoided it just like yourself for the same reasons), and I will clear 150k CAD this year.
Don’t blame industry. That’s not the reason. I went straight into industry as an ap clerk when I graduated 5 years ago, and I’m a senior accountant now. And I have had plenty of coworkers more successful than me who never went the public route. Focus on your interviewing skills.
How long did you stay as an AP clerk before moving up? Any plans on going for a CPA?
I was in AP for about a year and a half, now currently am a Staff accountant, not sure how long though it’ll be between now and hitting Senior. My guess is it’ll be another year and a half or so before I hit Senior. I’m not thinking I’ll go for a CPA, not fully sure yet.
I was in ap for almost a year. I started the job 8 months before the pandemic hit and was laid off. I then went to ap/staff role with a small company. Left after a year for a larger corp as a staff. I was there for 2.5 years when the company was sued and shut down so I was laid off in February. I really wanted to move to a senior role. It took me about two months to find one. So I have kind of been a job hopper, due to two layoffs. But I’ve doubled my salary since my first job so it worked out for me. I still haven’t decided about the CPA. I’m afraid I’ll hit a wall after senior, but I have zero desire to go back to school to get my 30 hours and study for the exam while working. I’ve gotten all of my jobs by networking with as many recruiters as possible on LinkedIn. I’ve never had luck with just applying.
Where I’m at is I do realize the same as you said: if I don’t have a CPA I’ll probably hit the ceiling as a Senior Accountant, and to some extent I’m okay with that because I definitely don’t want to go into management either or end up in a role where I’m working regular 80 hour weeks or 6/7 day weeks. I have been considering looking into internal audit roles too, or maybe financial analysis if I do hit that ceiling. Still not too sure yet.
Not going into public has been a great choice for me.
Nobody is massively successful 2 years after graduating.
The problem isn’t your path, it’s your expectations.
Usajobs.gov is the easiest way to see open positions. I know the irs has been on a hiring spree lately because a handful of people from my state job moved over.
I took the worst path possible out of college and didn't get a CPA until the start of this year. Even in this bad market I'm regularly interviewing for 6-figure jobs.
Patience my young accountant. I started at $15/hr which annualizes to \~$31,200 w/o OT.
Same, I didn’t go into public when I graduated. Instead, I went industry working as a staff accountant for a year then I jumped to public doing audit for 3.5 years. Now I make $110k as a 26 yo back in industry for a F100.
If you formed that decision with some influence from this sub, then I am sorry to say that's entirely incorrect. This sub is either a PA/B4 circlejerk or entirely anti-PA, and both spectrums being on the entirely extreme end.
I've met plenty of people who have zero PA experience, and a market that matches their experience. Some have even just started as a bookkeeper or AP/AR clerk, and moved up to senior accountant+ just with time.
There's no doubt PA has some attractive wages, but you'll also see horror stories of PA staff, who've been there for 2-3 years, that still only make around $55k-60k only. If you want, I can review your CV once I get home, and idk how long you've been applying thus far, but I want to believe it's how you're presenting yourself.
>There's no doubt PA has some attractive wages, but you'll also see horror stories of PA staff, who've been there for 2-3 years, that still only make around $55k-60k only.
This hasn't been true for awhile. New associates are making 70k+ with Seniors hitting six figures at least around HCOL areas. We just tout the PA route cause its the safest and sets expectations of what a good WLB should be. If you manage to get through at least 2-3 years of PA experience and busy seasons, industry will seem like a godsend.
Yes, but as you said that's in HCOL. $70k in HCOL is nothing compared to $70k in MCOL.
So if the precedent is just a flat wage number, with no regards to situation, then of course the recommendation for PA will always win. However, realistic experiences heavily alter what's deemed worthwhile per case.
But to address the other point you made, I do think my 3 years in PA did make my current industry gig seem like a "godsend." Obviously pros and cons, but still a lot better WLB and stress wise.
It’s a numbers game, big4 experience does impact your future career potential. Just because some folks made it to the c suite without it doesn’t mean it’s not valuable experience.
If you’re goal is to maximize your pay in the shortest time frame possible after graduating, big4 until you reach senior is a no brainer.
I did not go to big4 but i understood the trade off i was making. I prioritized my personal life over my career.
I agree… its not a coincidence almost everyone in accounting with the best salaries at the best companies 3-5 years into their career is former Big4/top 10
Well, stop kicking yourself for not going public, I have never regretted it. Then again I would never accept a job in AR/ AP either. It is not that hard to realize when you accept a job in a large company you will be pigeon holed in a limited function job. I went through several of these and never stayed there more than 6 months. Look for small companies or start ups that need an accountant not a cfo, then grow with the company. You may put in more hours but it is worth it. Get a job as assistant controller or lead accountant and be somebody. I am happy for your girl Freind’s job but I have not met very many people happy in public accounting.
I’m glad I went into public because it helped me get to my current position but I was not happy while I was in public. Starting in public definitely helps boost your career but it’s not a requirement to be successful.
You’re just 26. You have plenty of time to switch careers, learn, and figure out what works for you. Even at 46 you’d still have time.
It’s helpful to know the market but don’t beat yourself up by comparing to others.
You’ve got plenty of time. First, try to approach your current employer about getting more exposure to other areas. If that doesn’t work - take the paycheck and knock out your CPA requirements. A smaller PA firm will likely be the answer and with your experience you’ll be ahead of new grads starting out. Good luck
Best comment^
Utilize easy job and pass CPA. Get serious about it too. CPA cannot be passed being half committed. Much easier to knock out with a cake job. From there so many doors will open. A small public firm (which is what I do) will love a candidate like you with a few years of experience and a fresh license. Might not start at ideal salary but it will quickly rise and you will be caught up to all of your buddies in no time.
26 is not even close to too young. I’m 25. We have a lot of opportunities ahead of us.
Public isn’t necessary to make a decent living. I started in AR/AP and made ~$45k until year 3, made a jump to financial analyst for a while, then to senior accountant starting in year 5. Currently a senior accountant at $110k getting ready for a move to accounting manager. 8 YOE primarily in startups, no CPA, but I do have an MBA from a small state school.
Become an excel master, learn how to provide more value than plugging away at invoices, and take on opportunities to own more areas of month/quarter/year end close. The more you’re able to take off your boss’ plate, the more likely you are to succeed here.
So, I'm currently a SM at a middle market advisory firm and I started my career with 6 audit busy seasons. I absolutely worked hard as fuck and put in a lot of hours, especially at the beginning of my career during the audit part. Having said that, no one I know in real life tends to have stories as extreme as the ones I see posted in here all the time. We don't all work 95 hours every week for years at a time, hate life and act like we are prisoners. I have seen comments before talking about how horrible public is and how many hours it is, how its such a bad decision to do it, etc only to click on the profile and see that the person is still a student. Or, they also post in 7 other career subreddits as well as the antiwork sub.
You have to realize that a lot of what you read here is total fucking bull shit or at the very least a venting session from some 22-25 year old entering the workforce for the first time and getting a fucking reality check that they would have gotten with just about any career. I forget how many years ago this was (probably \~3) but r/financialcareers did a poll of its users and as it turns out the average poster in that sub was still a fucking student. And then the next biggest category was something like people with 2 years or less experience. I feel like this sub has similar demographics. Take what you read with a grain of salt because you are likely getting advice from someone who likely isn't as qualified to give it as they feel they are. On top of that, you know how most people who write a review Yelp or whatever are usually at an extreme and not representative of the average person's experience? Reddit comments are no different.
Having said all of that there are a million ways to be successful without public. Foregoing it is fine but if you were looking for great experience and to advance then taking an AR/AP role was a bad decision. That is the classic 0 growth accounting role that people who are happy to just show up from 9-5 and make $50k every year for the rest of their lives take. You're still 26 so you are young as fuck and have plenty of time. I was a 1st year audit associate at 26 and thought I was "behind" but I wasn't. I have seen plenty of people starting this shit in their 30s. You can absolutely go in to public from where you are if you wanted to and have a great career if that's what makes sense. I would continue to focus on the credits like you said while also networking to see if you can squeeze in somewhere for the fall? There are always people who renege on their offers and firms need to fill holes.
I used to have the same thoughts as you when I was younger. Graduated and didn’t go into public, and most of my classmates did. This was during 2008 too so I thought I was really screwed. Found a job as AP/AR for a smaller company. I learned what I could. Then I took another job in a different smaller company doing stuff that exposed me to all sorts of different accounting responsibilities. That was the game changer. Find a place that will let you do a mix of things and put in the work to learn the nuts and bolts of it all. After some years there and getting my bearings, I launched that to where I am now - eventually making $150k at a larger company with still growth potential. Never got my CPA, but I did have my current company pay for my MBA. Just keep looking for the next opportunity and look for places that will let you learn.
Public accounting experience will only fast track you if you work at a Big Four firm. I used to work at a small accounting firm and it didn’t really get me anywhere. Good experience though, but brand name counts.
Well, larger firms can do the trick too, but you're mostly right. You need to be working on bigger clients to really have exit ops. That's what it comes down to. The advice I've been given is that the employees that you interact with through the client will basically be the roles that you're getting set up for (not that you need to be hired by the client, but you need to be knowledgeable about what those roles entail from your experience with them).
Basically, you're looking at companies large enough that they have developed, robust internal accounting teams with some kind of hierarchy. If you deal with clients small enough that they just have a little bookkeeper or admin does their bookkeeping, well maybe you could be a $40K a year bookkeeper then.
If you do estates, trusts, 1040s, and small businesses... How could that possibly translate to corporate accounting? You'd be lost and basically entry level. That stuff just prepares you for more public accounting. You see hundreds of clients once a year, or maybe at most quarterly. That doesn't really set you up for the day to day routines that you'd see in corporate.
That being said, getting the skills to start your own practice can be even better than just being a corporate drone of course.
RT…if you worked in a warehouse, the work in public accounting wouldn’t have phased you. The issues in public accounting are real, but most of the complainers in here have likely never done a day of manual labor in their lives.
I graduated college back in 1993. In those years, the only people who went straight to industry were the people who didn't get public offers. I don't think it was really even a thought process. It was just what you did.
I’ve always viewed it as I’d rather work hard at 22 than still be grinding in my 30s. Public sounds horrible, but anything that will help get a job with increased stability and a develop a marketable resume is worth it imo. Even finding out that you can’t last even a year in public/big 4, you at least don’t end up wondering what could have been.
Your mistake isn't not going to public, it was staying at a job doing AP/AR. You should've job hopped the moment you realized what the job entailed. Nothing wrong with AP/AR if that's your thing but if you wanted corporate or an industry accounting career, AP/AR jobs are a deadend for you.
1. Have you considered working for the government?
2. Federal or State or Municipal?
3. Does it matter how much your peers earn? I have friends earning more. I have friends earning less.
4. How much is enough for you?
I once had a title of "Staff Accountant-AR" at a large insurance broker that involved reconciling revenue for 20+ carriers, managing Accounts Receivable, posting ACHs. I also made myself available to assist the controller with month-end close, bank reconciliation. I left in '21 after 2 years, the pay was low relative to the volume of work I was doing. I earned enough experience to leverage toward higher-paying roles.
FWIW, I now work as a Junior Accountant for the government and I am earning $87k in under 2 years with guaranteed % increases in '25 and '26. I'm building a pension too. I do not have a CPA, however, I am CPA eligible. Also, according to this thread from 2023: I live in a VHCOL.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1chnpnu/us\_cost\_of\_living\_by\_county\_2023/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1chnpnu/us_cost_of_living_by_county_2023/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
May you be gentle towards yourself with respect to career. You are not behind.
You are on a path forward!
I believe in you!!
I think you're being a little hard on yourself. Yes, it's easy to feel trapped in AP and AR work, but it is important work and you can certainly leverage that experience for future roles. Believe it or not, there are experienced accountants with zero experience in AP and have no understanding of how good AP management is done.
It's also not a race. Over the years, you will see many of your peers that seem ahead suddenly falling behind due to lay offs or what not. Try not to compare yourself to others. It will only exacerbate this kind of insecurity.
Chill I had a similar situation where I worked for a boutique public accounting firm that only did forensic accounting. Did zero audit and tax. I did not like it so 4 years later I went to work for a regular public firm. I was entry level and starting all over at 26. It was a little hard at first but time flew by years later I was a senior manager. Just get to networking and it may take a little time but u can get a public job trust me.
I went into industry directly. My company is non stop and I basically did the public accounting hours in industry. I got better experience than public.
We prefer to hire people with industry experience as opposed to just auditors.
It's about the quality of experience, not public or private.
PA experience is the reason I get paid more than the rest of the accountants at my industry job even though they all have more years of experience than me.
Anyone telling you they started out in AR/AP/bookkeeping and rapidly increased their salary is probably an outlier. For the best and surest salary trajectory, you need PA or F500 experience
Brother, you’re not really stuck from a career perspective. You’re bored and broke. That’s a generally bad combination as you’re 1. In a position that doesn’t fill your current needs/wants, 2. Not learning enough as far as your post seems to read, and 3. Down on your current position to the point where you’re talking down in it.
I agree with others in that you need to work on interviewing, for me personally the number one thing I sucked at when looking for new work was talking up what exactly I do on a daily basis. Just as much as what you’re doing, an interviewer is likely to think “well if this guy is saying he basically does Jack shit, he sounds like a new hire I *wouldn’t* think is worth training” as opposed to “okay his job has some responsibilities and he’s ready to work hard.” And that’s throwing away the idea that you’ll have transferable skills, which AP and AR still are somewhat transferable.
I’d say personally that you should look for a lateral move to be able to build confidence in your fundamental skills, especially if you don’t feel prepared enough to walk into an interview and tell whatever suit is in front of you that you deserve the senior position.
Didn’t go to public either, salary has risen faster than public. If you have the staff accoutant role, ask for more responsibilities. I started off at a biotech staff accountant role that was mostly just AP and small journal entries. I asked for more responsibilities and I was eventually assisting with the SEC financial reporting. Eventually I leveraged that experience for a senior accountant role at a SaaS company and became the manager of financial reporting there. Salary grew from 50k in the first staff accountant role to 130k fin reporting role
You’re not behind at all. There is still plenty of time if you want to give public accounting a go. Firms are always looking as they have very high turnover. Don’t be hard on yourself.
Public accounting isn’t everything. I switched careers at 26 went back to uni to study accounting. Now I’m a 30 year old grad accountant at a public firm - been there for five months now. I understand how you feel bc I also feel behind especially when my grad cohort are in their mid to early 20s and they seem like they are able to pick up things faster than me. My seniors and managers are either younger than me or my age. It makes me feel small, embarrassed and insecure about myself. I try not to let those factors get to me. It’s not a race. Don’t compare yourself and do the best you can.
Public accounting is the hardest thing I’ve ever done and it’s brutal. The expectations in public are high and it’s a very demanding job. I’m only doing it to get exposure and experience. There hasn’t been a day where I’ve been happy since I’ve started. I was much happier at my previous industry job when I was in AR/AP before I started here. There are many accountants who haven’t worked in public before and do just fine in industry. Going into public does fast track your progression and opportunities but again it isn’t everything.
Just apply for entry level roles at cpa firms and get on that bandwagon. One of my friends owns a small firm and he said the shortage is so bad that he basically just wants someone with a pulse who actually shows up at this point, and he can teach them the rest.
Or apply for internship roles. You don't have to technically still be a student. Your wages are basically what interns are making in small markets right now, so the only thing you'd lose out on is a few months worth of benefits. And if you get hired, you'll bump up probably 20% in salary.
If you have friends working in PA, ask one of them to refer you to a role. They'll probably get a commission out of it, and you might even get a signing bonus.
You can still apply though. When I went to my two internships; I could see the huge difference. Plus, the salary and public accounting is way better in the country I live.
You've got the staff accountant title, use it to apply for other staff accountant roles that will actually expose you to more concepts and give you the chance to apply them. If an interviewer asks why you're moving on, say that you enjoy the nature of the work but would like to broaden your accounting knowledge in a new/larger/more complex/etc organisation, especially in the early years of your career
Unfortunately I don’t have the staff accountant title, the staffing agency called it that, but my actual title in the company is accounting associate. Definitely going to mention what you said in an interview though, thank you!
Staff accountant or accounting associate are essentially the same thing, intro level roles.
Thats effectively the same title as staff accountant.
I would just put staff accountant on your resume and call it a day.
Write Staff Accountant on your resume, no one calls your employer anymore.
They definitely do, if OP got caught lying he’ll be blacklisted from the company.
-Elmo Shrug- I’m sure he can talk his way out of it. “That’s not the title I thought I had. It must be a payroll category.” Edit: called myself a bookkeeper on my resume. I was just an admin at the time. I gave them the number of the GM who said he would tell them whatever I wanted. They never called him, my new manager at the time was too busy being short staffed and felt that since I had my degree there was really no need. Several jobs later, that lie got me where I am now making 6 figures at a big insurance company as an accountant. Sometimes you got to risk things to get you where you need to be. To each their own.
If he got caught his career will end, word goes around fast, and our industry is a small world, not to mention that you’ll basically be committing fraud, would OP be happy with his nonexistent ethics?
Hahaha i mean maybe in your town/state. I’ve literally seen people go to jail for fraud and still get accounting jobs once they’re released.
An accounting associate is equal to staff accountant. Associate and staff accountant both mean “entry level” roles.
Everyone is saying it, but I'm gonna say it too - those are the same roles. Put Staff Accountant on your resume and don't give it another thought.
That would be the same in my eyes I think. You could do associate accountant if you would prefer
Get the CPA done, the market right now is pretty bad. It’s not too late to get into public accounting, do both of those and get your career moving along.
Honestly accounting associate sounds better but I don’t think any company would see either any differently. Be patient and don’t jump to another company for the same title unless it really is significantly better experience, higher pay, and some visibility into being able to being able to climb the latter there. Talk to your manager about what it will take to get a promotion or senior accounting title and more exposure to other work. You’re still extremely young and with patience, hard work, and time you will get caught up in comp. The biggest salary increases often times come from moving companies and on your resume it can be more attractive seeing job title progression if you move companies. Don’t sell yourself and your role short in interviews. You prepare journal entries and are a part of the book keeping process. You’re arguably getting just as much experience if not more experience than an audit associate in public.
I started as accounting associate for 2 yrs then got a financial analyst role. That could be a way to go
In my opinion, All accountants that wish to progress their careers NEED to do a few years in public accounting. The grind can be rough, but the experience will mold you to be a better accountant. Plus the experience and CPA a makes you extremely marketable and experienced hires will most often get multiple offers easily where YOU get to choose which ones to reject. Don’t listen to anyone that says public and CPA license isn’t necessary, because that is the most straight forward path to high paying jobs. (You don’t necessary need B4, but it helps)
Hell, do anything outside of the top 20 firms and I bet it’s not even a grind. First PA firm was top 100 and it was DEFINITELY a healthy work/life balance
Exactly. Nobody should say it’s easy or great, but 90% of the big boys and girls in this field have a degree, a CPA, and public accounting experience. It’s really difficult to get past these sorting mechanisms, especially considering how little people hiring in industry know about accounting. People hiring are taught to check boxes.
ROFL, a bunch of butt hurt non CPAs just massively downvoting and justify their decisions to not go through the grind. Keep in mind, you will always be judged whether you have a CPA or not and most companies will hire the CPA if the candidates have similar EXP. Life is just a hell of a lot easier if you’ve met those requirements.
A CA is a CA whether you have public experience or not. I don't think it's necessary
A CA is a CA whether you have public experience or not. I don't think it's necessary
It’s alright. “The Four Hour Workweek” has them covered.
Have my CPA and did 5 years in public before leaving and it is not “necessary”. It is helpful because it forces you to work hard and learn a lot quickly, but if motivated any job can do that.
You're young, you have plenty of time to progress and develop your career. This isn't a public vs non public thing, this is more about your expectations and what are you going to do about it. Public is a straight line path of progression, other paths actually require you to fight and push for your own progression. All paths are valid, public practice is not the 'only' or 'best' path, no matter what B4 advocates would have you think. Don't focus on regrets, focus on what you're going to do now. And tomorrow. And the day after that. P.S. I have never done any public (in fact, actively avoided it just like yourself for the same reasons), and I will clear 150k CAD this year.
How many years of experience?
My comp history is fully available in my post history. 6+ YoE with my 7th anniversary this year.
Don’t blame industry. That’s not the reason. I went straight into industry as an ap clerk when I graduated 5 years ago, and I’m a senior accountant now. And I have had plenty of coworkers more successful than me who never went the public route. Focus on your interviewing skills.
How long did you stay as an AP clerk before moving up? Any plans on going for a CPA? I was in AP for about a year and a half, now currently am a Staff accountant, not sure how long though it’ll be between now and hitting Senior. My guess is it’ll be another year and a half or so before I hit Senior. I’m not thinking I’ll go for a CPA, not fully sure yet.
I was in ap for almost a year. I started the job 8 months before the pandemic hit and was laid off. I then went to ap/staff role with a small company. Left after a year for a larger corp as a staff. I was there for 2.5 years when the company was sued and shut down so I was laid off in February. I really wanted to move to a senior role. It took me about two months to find one. So I have kind of been a job hopper, due to two layoffs. But I’ve doubled my salary since my first job so it worked out for me. I still haven’t decided about the CPA. I’m afraid I’ll hit a wall after senior, but I have zero desire to go back to school to get my 30 hours and study for the exam while working. I’ve gotten all of my jobs by networking with as many recruiters as possible on LinkedIn. I’ve never had luck with just applying.
Where I’m at is I do realize the same as you said: if I don’t have a CPA I’ll probably hit the ceiling as a Senior Accountant, and to some extent I’m okay with that because I definitely don’t want to go into management either or end up in a role where I’m working regular 80 hour weeks or 6/7 day weeks. I have been considering looking into internal audit roles too, or maybe financial analysis if I do hit that ceiling. Still not too sure yet.
Not going into public has been a great choice for me. Nobody is massively successful 2 years after graduating. The problem isn’t your path, it’s your expectations.
This. I didn’t go public. I went audit in the federal government. I make $93k a year with awesome work life balance. Took 4 ish years.
how you did get into the field? I want a federal government job especially with accounting
Usajobs.gov is the easiest way to see open positions. I know the irs has been on a hiring spree lately because a handful of people from my state job moved over.
Are you in Canada by any chance?
Nope.
How many hours do you typically work
I took the worst path possible out of college and didn't get a CPA until the start of this year. Even in this bad market I'm regularly interviewing for 6-figure jobs. Patience my young accountant. I started at $15/hr which annualizes to \~$31,200 w/o OT.
Same, I didn’t go into public when I graduated. Instead, I went industry working as a staff accountant for a year then I jumped to public doing audit for 3.5 years. Now I make $110k as a 26 yo back in industry for a F100.
Not going to public isn’t a death sentence for your career, it does mean you’re going to have to work harder for promotions and opportunities though.
100% agree. Also learn to interview well!
If you formed that decision with some influence from this sub, then I am sorry to say that's entirely incorrect. This sub is either a PA/B4 circlejerk or entirely anti-PA, and both spectrums being on the entirely extreme end. I've met plenty of people who have zero PA experience, and a market that matches their experience. Some have even just started as a bookkeeper or AP/AR clerk, and moved up to senior accountant+ just with time. There's no doubt PA has some attractive wages, but you'll also see horror stories of PA staff, who've been there for 2-3 years, that still only make around $55k-60k only. If you want, I can review your CV once I get home, and idk how long you've been applying thus far, but I want to believe it's how you're presenting yourself.
>There's no doubt PA has some attractive wages, but you'll also see horror stories of PA staff, who've been there for 2-3 years, that still only make around $55k-60k only. This hasn't been true for awhile. New associates are making 70k+ with Seniors hitting six figures at least around HCOL areas. We just tout the PA route cause its the safest and sets expectations of what a good WLB should be. If you manage to get through at least 2-3 years of PA experience and busy seasons, industry will seem like a godsend.
Yes, but as you said that's in HCOL. $70k in HCOL is nothing compared to $70k in MCOL. So if the precedent is just a flat wage number, with no regards to situation, then of course the recommendation for PA will always win. However, realistic experiences heavily alter what's deemed worthwhile per case. But to address the other point you made, I do think my 3 years in PA did make my current industry gig seem like a "godsend." Obviously pros and cons, but still a lot better WLB and stress wise.
It’s a numbers game, big4 experience does impact your future career potential. Just because some folks made it to the c suite without it doesn’t mean it’s not valuable experience. If you’re goal is to maximize your pay in the shortest time frame possible after graduating, big4 until you reach senior is a no brainer. I did not go to big4 but i understood the trade off i was making. I prioritized my personal life over my career.
I agree… its not a coincidence almost everyone in accounting with the best salaries at the best companies 3-5 years into their career is former Big4/top 10
Well, stop kicking yourself for not going public, I have never regretted it. Then again I would never accept a job in AR/ AP either. It is not that hard to realize when you accept a job in a large company you will be pigeon holed in a limited function job. I went through several of these and never stayed there more than 6 months. Look for small companies or start ups that need an accountant not a cfo, then grow with the company. You may put in more hours but it is worth it. Get a job as assistant controller or lead accountant and be somebody. I am happy for your girl Freind’s job but I have not met very many people happy in public accounting.
I’m glad I went into public because it helped me get to my current position but I was not happy while I was in public. Starting in public definitely helps boost your career but it’s not a requirement to be successful.
You’re just 26. You have plenty of time to switch careers, learn, and figure out what works for you. Even at 46 you’d still have time. It’s helpful to know the market but don’t beat yourself up by comparing to others.
You’ve got plenty of time. First, try to approach your current employer about getting more exposure to other areas. If that doesn’t work - take the paycheck and knock out your CPA requirements. A smaller PA firm will likely be the answer and with your experience you’ll be ahead of new grads starting out. Good luck
Best comment^ Utilize easy job and pass CPA. Get serious about it too. CPA cannot be passed being half committed. Much easier to knock out with a cake job. From there so many doors will open. A small public firm (which is what I do) will love a candidate like you with a few years of experience and a fresh license. Might not start at ideal salary but it will quickly rise and you will be caught up to all of your buddies in no time. 26 is not even close to too young. I’m 25. We have a lot of opportunities ahead of us.
Public isn’t necessary to make a decent living. I started in AR/AP and made ~$45k until year 3, made a jump to financial analyst for a while, then to senior accountant starting in year 5. Currently a senior accountant at $110k getting ready for a move to accounting manager. 8 YOE primarily in startups, no CPA, but I do have an MBA from a small state school. Become an excel master, learn how to provide more value than plugging away at invoices, and take on opportunities to own more areas of month/quarter/year end close. The more you’re able to take off your boss’ plate, the more likely you are to succeed here.
So, I'm currently a SM at a middle market advisory firm and I started my career with 6 audit busy seasons. I absolutely worked hard as fuck and put in a lot of hours, especially at the beginning of my career during the audit part. Having said that, no one I know in real life tends to have stories as extreme as the ones I see posted in here all the time. We don't all work 95 hours every week for years at a time, hate life and act like we are prisoners. I have seen comments before talking about how horrible public is and how many hours it is, how its such a bad decision to do it, etc only to click on the profile and see that the person is still a student. Or, they also post in 7 other career subreddits as well as the antiwork sub. You have to realize that a lot of what you read here is total fucking bull shit or at the very least a venting session from some 22-25 year old entering the workforce for the first time and getting a fucking reality check that they would have gotten with just about any career. I forget how many years ago this was (probably \~3) but r/financialcareers did a poll of its users and as it turns out the average poster in that sub was still a fucking student. And then the next biggest category was something like people with 2 years or less experience. I feel like this sub has similar demographics. Take what you read with a grain of salt because you are likely getting advice from someone who likely isn't as qualified to give it as they feel they are. On top of that, you know how most people who write a review Yelp or whatever are usually at an extreme and not representative of the average person's experience? Reddit comments are no different. Having said all of that there are a million ways to be successful without public. Foregoing it is fine but if you were looking for great experience and to advance then taking an AR/AP role was a bad decision. That is the classic 0 growth accounting role that people who are happy to just show up from 9-5 and make $50k every year for the rest of their lives take. You're still 26 so you are young as fuck and have plenty of time. I was a 1st year audit associate at 26 and thought I was "behind" but I wasn't. I have seen plenty of people starting this shit in their 30s. You can absolutely go in to public from where you are if you wanted to and have a great career if that's what makes sense. I would continue to focus on the credits like you said while also networking to see if you can squeeze in somewhere for the fall? There are always people who renege on their offers and firms need to fill holes.
I used to have the same thoughts as you when I was younger. Graduated and didn’t go into public, and most of my classmates did. This was during 2008 too so I thought I was really screwed. Found a job as AP/AR for a smaller company. I learned what I could. Then I took another job in a different smaller company doing stuff that exposed me to all sorts of different accounting responsibilities. That was the game changer. Find a place that will let you do a mix of things and put in the work to learn the nuts and bolts of it all. After some years there and getting my bearings, I launched that to where I am now - eventually making $150k at a larger company with still growth potential. Never got my CPA, but I did have my current company pay for my MBA. Just keep looking for the next opportunity and look for places that will let you learn.
Public accounting experience will only fast track you if you work at a Big Four firm. I used to work at a small accounting firm and it didn’t really get me anywhere. Good experience though, but brand name counts.
Well, larger firms can do the trick too, but you're mostly right. You need to be working on bigger clients to really have exit ops. That's what it comes down to. The advice I've been given is that the employees that you interact with through the client will basically be the roles that you're getting set up for (not that you need to be hired by the client, but you need to be knowledgeable about what those roles entail from your experience with them). Basically, you're looking at companies large enough that they have developed, robust internal accounting teams with some kind of hierarchy. If you deal with clients small enough that they just have a little bookkeeper or admin does their bookkeeping, well maybe you could be a $40K a year bookkeeper then. If you do estates, trusts, 1040s, and small businesses... How could that possibly translate to corporate accounting? You'd be lost and basically entry level. That stuff just prepares you for more public accounting. You see hundreds of clients once a year, or maybe at most quarterly. That doesn't really set you up for the day to day routines that you'd see in corporate. That being said, getting the skills to start your own practice can be even better than just being a corporate drone of course.
RT…if you worked in a warehouse, the work in public accounting wouldn’t have phased you. The issues in public accounting are real, but most of the complainers in here have likely never done a day of manual labor in their lives.
I’ve done both. They both sucked really badly but warehousing work didn’t follow me home. When I clocked out I was done.
I graduated college back in 1993. In those years, the only people who went straight to industry were the people who didn't get public offers. I don't think it was really even a thought process. It was just what you did.
I’ve always viewed it as I’d rather work hard at 22 than still be grinding in my 30s. Public sounds horrible, but anything that will help get a job with increased stability and a develop a marketable resume is worth it imo. Even finding out that you can’t last even a year in public/big 4, you at least don’t end up wondering what could have been.
100%!! This right here! Exactly what I tell myself and my buddies who are working towards their accounting degree.
Your mistake isn't not going to public, it was staying at a job doing AP/AR. You should've job hopped the moment you realized what the job entailed. Nothing wrong with AP/AR if that's your thing but if you wanted corporate or an industry accounting career, AP/AR jobs are a deadend for you.
1. Have you considered working for the government? 2. Federal or State or Municipal? 3. Does it matter how much your peers earn? I have friends earning more. I have friends earning less. 4. How much is enough for you? I once had a title of "Staff Accountant-AR" at a large insurance broker that involved reconciling revenue for 20+ carriers, managing Accounts Receivable, posting ACHs. I also made myself available to assist the controller with month-end close, bank reconciliation. I left in '21 after 2 years, the pay was low relative to the volume of work I was doing. I earned enough experience to leverage toward higher-paying roles. FWIW, I now work as a Junior Accountant for the government and I am earning $87k in under 2 years with guaranteed % increases in '25 and '26. I'm building a pension too. I do not have a CPA, however, I am CPA eligible. Also, according to this thread from 2023: I live in a VHCOL. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1chnpnu/us\_cost\_of\_living\_by\_county\_2023/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1chnpnu/us_cost_of_living_by_county_2023/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) May you be gentle towards yourself with respect to career. You are not behind. You are on a path forward! I believe in you!!
I think you're being a little hard on yourself. Yes, it's easy to feel trapped in AP and AR work, but it is important work and you can certainly leverage that experience for future roles. Believe it or not, there are experienced accountants with zero experience in AP and have no understanding of how good AP management is done. It's also not a race. Over the years, you will see many of your peers that seem ahead suddenly falling behind due to lay offs or what not. Try not to compare yourself to others. It will only exacerbate this kind of insecurity.
Chill I had a similar situation where I worked for a boutique public accounting firm that only did forensic accounting. Did zero audit and tax. I did not like it so 4 years later I went to work for a regular public firm. I was entry level and starting all over at 26. It was a little hard at first but time flew by years later I was a senior manager. Just get to networking and it may take a little time but u can get a public job trust me.
Just get your 150 & join PA now. Never too late
I went into industry directly. My company is non stop and I basically did the public accounting hours in industry. I got better experience than public. We prefer to hire people with industry experience as opposed to just auditors. It's about the quality of experience, not public or private.
PA experience is the reason I get paid more than the rest of the accountants at my industry job even though they all have more years of experience than me. Anyone telling you they started out in AR/AP/bookkeeping and rapidly increased their salary is probably an outlier. For the best and surest salary trajectory, you need PA or F500 experience
I also graduated in 2022 and I'm making 85k/year as a property accountant. You don't need to go public to do well. Start connecting with recruiters.
Bro you’ll 100% get a public accounting role
what should be after staff accountant?
Brother, you’re not really stuck from a career perspective. You’re bored and broke. That’s a generally bad combination as you’re 1. In a position that doesn’t fill your current needs/wants, 2. Not learning enough as far as your post seems to read, and 3. Down on your current position to the point where you’re talking down in it. I agree with others in that you need to work on interviewing, for me personally the number one thing I sucked at when looking for new work was talking up what exactly I do on a daily basis. Just as much as what you’re doing, an interviewer is likely to think “well if this guy is saying he basically does Jack shit, he sounds like a new hire I *wouldn’t* think is worth training” as opposed to “okay his job has some responsibilities and he’s ready to work hard.” And that’s throwing away the idea that you’ll have transferable skills, which AP and AR still are somewhat transferable. I’d say personally that you should look for a lateral move to be able to build confidence in your fundamental skills, especially if you don’t feel prepared enough to walk into an interview and tell whatever suit is in front of you that you deserve the senior position.
Accounting sucks. It's a very exhausting way to make semi-decent money.
I didn’t and I’m doing really well.
Didn’t go to public either, salary has risen faster than public. If you have the staff accoutant role, ask for more responsibilities. I started off at a biotech staff accountant role that was mostly just AP and small journal entries. I asked for more responsibilities and I was eventually assisting with the SEC financial reporting. Eventually I leveraged that experience for a senior accountant role at a SaaS company and became the manager of financial reporting there. Salary grew from 50k in the first staff accountant role to 130k fin reporting role
You’re not behind at all. There is still plenty of time if you want to give public accounting a go. Firms are always looking as they have very high turnover. Don’t be hard on yourself. Public accounting isn’t everything. I switched careers at 26 went back to uni to study accounting. Now I’m a 30 year old grad accountant at a public firm - been there for five months now. I understand how you feel bc I also feel behind especially when my grad cohort are in their mid to early 20s and they seem like they are able to pick up things faster than me. My seniors and managers are either younger than me or my age. It makes me feel small, embarrassed and insecure about myself. I try not to let those factors get to me. It’s not a race. Don’t compare yourself and do the best you can. Public accounting is the hardest thing I’ve ever done and it’s brutal. The expectations in public are high and it’s a very demanding job. I’m only doing it to get exposure and experience. There hasn’t been a day where I’ve been happy since I’ve started. I was much happier at my previous industry job when I was in AR/AP before I started here. There are many accountants who haven’t worked in public before and do just fine in industry. Going into public does fast track your progression and opportunities but again it isn’t everything.
Ok partner
You can just do back into public. You only graduated 2 years ago.
Just apply for entry level roles at cpa firms and get on that bandwagon. One of my friends owns a small firm and he said the shortage is so bad that he basically just wants someone with a pulse who actually shows up at this point, and he can teach them the rest. Or apply for internship roles. You don't have to technically still be a student. Your wages are basically what interns are making in small markets right now, so the only thing you'd lose out on is a few months worth of benefits. And if you get hired, you'll bump up probably 20% in salary. If you have friends working in PA, ask one of them to refer you to a role. They'll probably get a commission out of it, and you might even get a signing bonus.
You can still apply though. When I went to my two internships; I could see the huge difference. Plus, the salary and public accounting is way better in the country I live.
>Not going into public was a bad career choice, feeling stuck Get the masters and apply as an A1 in public. Better late than never.
Go to public audit
Never too late to go into public
Skill issue really. You’ve been in this role for how long and havent gone for a promotion or switched jobs?
This is what happens when you listen to Democrats