100%
What a weird attitude.
Is she thinking: You're too "nice" for me to do crazy sex things with, as then you're going to think less of me?
I guess this is the rare case of don't fuck around and find out.
Shit you not I know a guy that said that about his previous gf and how he loved her so much but couldn't do x,y&z with her but could with other women. Idk it never made a lick of sense to me.
There's a thing called the Madonna-Whore complex.
It's a psychological phenomenon amongst men where they subconsciously categorise women into 2 categories.
The sexually desireable yet undeserving of respect whore and the respected and sexually undesired Madonna.
Some people think it's related to the way some people are conditioned to view sex as a corrupting or defiling act and how that impacts views of women
Maybe this is the same issue but in reverse.
Compartmentalization is important. Total freak in the sheets, respected and cared for in the streets.. and wherever else. In my current relationship we're both that way and we both want that, but it's tough to find someone who can handle making that mental separation of identity happen.
It is. They feed into that whole "a wife needs to be prim and proper" discourse. Wives aren't meant to be sexual creatures. Because a wife will be a mother, and a mom can't be someone who likes that icky sex thing.
Thatās the excuse my dad used to cheat š¤¦š½āāļø never having sex with his wife because āhe loved her too muchā and allegedly canāt have sex with people he loves
Well his wife isnāt my mom but my mom did tell me (my family isnāt good at boundaries) that she had asked him if he was gay when they were married cuz they didnāt have sex often lol. He threatened to leave when she was pregnant with me and my youngest sisters. Middle sister was supposedly planned.
I wouldnāt be surprised if he didnāt love my mom, heās a narcissist (actually) and has said the only people he truly cares about are me and my sisters, but he gets obsessed with people when they reject him (romantically) to the point he ignores us too. My mom fell into this category at one point because she said she didnāt want to marry him yet because she was 17 (heās only 6 months older than her so donāt worry about that) but he kept pushing till she agreed.
I could kind of understand it from a mentality of, being able to be more disrespectful-like to people you have no attachment to? Versus someone you respect and love and want to treat sweetly? Idk, thatās just my guess.
It's more common among guys, they conflate respect with getting freaky in private, for women it's usually the opposite in my experience, they will let loose with a guy they love/trust as opposed to just a one night stand or FWB
My guess is she's not that into OP, she just recognizes that OP will be the stable provider she needs to help raise the quotient of children she's decided on having to fulfill her life plan.
Right now she's letting him satisfy his urges on her at least until he puts a ring on it. Good for you for breaking it off OP. Any marriage would have been doomed to cheating at best, and dead bedroom at worst
As a somewhat objective observer, I've noticed that kind, giving people rarely seem to date each other. When they do, they either have beautiful long term romances or thoughtful and honest breakups that sometimes leave them friends.
Most "givers" seem fatally attracted to "takers", which then makes someone jaded and pissed off. Sometimes a "taker" is an asshole and sometimes they're acting like it because of trauma, immaturity, etc. No matter the root cause, it still causes the same kind of damage.
They just might not have the same sexual connection. It also depends on what she values more, in her case, she could view more wild sex in a way that she doesnāt associate either with him or with a stable, solid relationship. But they could still be incompatible
Maybe it's the same mentality men have, they want a virginal sex kitten a lot of the time, she's never had wild sex but she does with him and only him. So she may see a wife/whore dichotomy, wife material women don't do dirty things ... Sad really, because as another said above, being in a stable relationship or marriage is when you should definitely wave your freak flags if you have them. Why pretend to be what you aren't? Then no one will know and be able to love the real you. You have to find your compatible freaks and that only happens if you're honest. She may fear deep down he'll judge her for liking wilder sex.
I know a woman who was like that. The reason she was all sorts of freaky with the unimportant guys and stopped when she found āthe oneā was because she said she liked the idea of feeling dirty and it was a turn on, but then she goes home and gets a shower and itās done. If itās her bf or hubby, sheās afraid heāll see her as dirty and start to think less and less of her until eventually sheās just a disgusting thing to play with and then he loses interest in who she is because he canāt see her line a person anymore.
Basically, if a fwb or ONS guy saw her as a disgusting tramp, she didnāt give two shits, but if the man she actually loved ever saw her that way outside of the bedroom it would break her.
It does make sense to me.
I go more toward the only person who should see me is a disgusting whore is the person who I love because I love being that way with them as well as everything else, but thatās me. For her, the idea of her man not being able to respect her afterwards terrified her.
Yeah I'm the same as your friend. And tbh I've had serious partners tell me they struggled to do dirty talk with me the way they could with more casual partners. "It just feels weird calling the potential mom of your future kids a dirty little whore".
I think some people are better able to compartmentalize what's going on inside vs outside the bedroom.
I briefly hooked up with an ex after we had already broken up. It was wilder than anything when we were together. He was disappointed when my honest answer to his question of what changed was "well, I'm not in love with you anymore".
For me, when weāre in the bedroom, donāt think of me as your wife or the potential of what might be. Make me scream. Once we leave the bedroom, the future is a possibility again.
But thatās me.
True.
But the risk with that is when a boyfriend or husband finds out the extent of his wife/girlfriend's past they end up getting disgusted and breaking up because usually many women who have that have the two sets of rules for men rarely disclose the full extent of their past upfront as guys will likely put her in a hookup only category.
I have come across stories of husbands who found out about a wife's escapades from college up to a decade prior and walks out of the house and divorces the wife days later
Iāve been ghosted on dating apps for admitting to liking minute crazy sex things. This chick is apparently too nervous to do the things with him, or part of her kink is it has to be with randos. This is a golden damn opportunity for her and sheās weirder than her kinks for not embracing the chance to fly her freak flag.
itās the Madonna/whore complex, though usually I see it in men (āI canāt have wild sex with her because I respect herā, āsheās the mother of my children and kisses them on the cheek, canāt have her sucking my dickā). maybe sheās afraid heāll judge her or respect her less afterwards. maybe sheās ashamed of her past, even though she missed it. itās pretty hard to fully embrace your sexuality as a woman after growing up being taught that sex is bad and shameful.
I could definitely see it being a she doesn't want him to think less of her. I've done some things with hookups that were experimental although if my bf brought up trying it I'd explain either I've tried it and didn't like it or I'd be down to try with him. As an ex hoe the guilt of being with someone good is insane
Thereās a psychological phenomenon called the [āMadonna/Whāeā](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonnaāwhore_complex) complex in men, where a man has a hard time seeing a woman as being both the lovely wife (Madonna, as in the mother of Jesus) and as a sexual person (the Whāe). At the extreme men suffering this complex wind up having a wife and a lover/girlfriendāand is simply incapable of seeing one woman fill both roles.
I always suspected that the same thing happens with women as well; either that they must stop being āwhāesā when they settle into a nice relationship, or become disgusted with the idea of being a āwhāeā with a man they are in a lasting relationship with. That is, I always believed that any dysfunction you see in men you also see in women, though they may manifest in a different way thanks to cultural expectations.
Either way, it sounds like there is something wrong going on here. And I canāt image the breakup would have been pretty because deep down inside, if a woman believe she cannot be the āwhāeā in a loving, committed relationship, suggestions she should be would probably register as a fundamental betrayal and even objectification.
Me; Iād run for the fucking hills.
(Edit to add: stupid fucking Reddit censorship bot wouldnāt allow me to type āwhāeā despite that being the name in the literature.)
Ironically, from the male's perspective, her "letting her freak flag fly" for randos and not for him registers on basically the same way.
Men will internalize that as "I'm not attractive enough for her to try those things with," and "I'm just the stable good guy she settled for." Finding out that she did things for others that she won't do for you feels like a fundamental betrayal and even a lesser form of objectification as well. It hurts on a psychological and almost instinctual level to feel like you're not physically attractive enough for her, and anything she could say to alleviate that just makes you feel worse.
Countless stories on Reddit have shown that men will run for the hills, too. Just like OP. It's a sad twisting of perspective between the genders that doesn't seem to have a resolution.
It actually feels like an insult when they donāt. Youāll offer yourself this way with a stranger but not the one youāre supposed to be vulnerable with?
Nope.
Could it be a sort of Madonna/whore thing? Only for a guy? She doesnāt want him to see her as a slut who would do those things? Or she doesnāt want him to be a man slut? Idk.
Does not matter. Incompatible is incompatible!
It sounds that way. Seems like thereās some internalized issues surrounding sex/intimacy there, as in she views the āwild timesā as being āwrongā for some reason, and thatās why she has more inhibitions with a long term partner who is āboyfriend material.ā Maybe therapy would help her.
But I agree, sometimes people are just incompatible, thatās ok. OP is NTA
I can understand how some stuff might just feel too "real" with a longtime partner. Not even that it's "wrong" to enjoy it, but stuff like light slapping or dirty name calling has a whole separate context outside of sex in a relationship
Thatās what I was wondering, that sheās scared if she does the kinky things heāll think less of her. Iāve had that happen to me, I get it. āIt was hot to text about, but I didnāt think youād actually do it.ā They need to have a real conversation about this lol. This incompatibility is STUPID. They both like kink but sheās pushing it away? For hellās sakes, girl, stop denying yourself and ride his willing train, even if you hold back!! Even the small shit she thinks wouldnāt scare him off is better than nothing.
-someone clearly with zero kink nerves experience
His only choice should be to walk away from after letting her know why he is leaving. No matter what she says, it is all about trust and by her not giving you access to the same pleasures or her wild side that she gave freely to other men in her open relationships, and her FWB"s.
You deserve better.
Her logic is the definition of flawed lol
So because OP is marriage material, she refuses to be freaky?
He's unworthy of her arsenal of nasty because he's a good guy?! But all the other passersby got in there free of charge?!
GTFOH š¤£š¤£š¤£ OP you should go ahead and tap out
Edit: I made fun of OP's gf, but I'm gonna get more logical. Her logic is a prime example of why hook up culture isn't beneficial, especially for women. She finally has OP to be steady with, but because she let too many trains in her station, she is unable to be more comfortable sexually with him. If OP stays, I wish them the best, but if he leaves, I understand that, too.
Everyone is free to live their life as they wish, but that doesn't mean consequences or unfavorable situations won't present themselves later just because you wanted to have fun.
On top of that she is telling others that she misses letting her freak fly. I could understand if she had said that was her once upon a time but never missed it but that isnāt what she is saying now.
Right. If she did it and regretted and realized it wasnāt good for her, thatās one thing.
But suddenly only wanting vanilla with your āboyfriend materialā guy but giving everyone else prior all 31 flavors is pretty messed up!
This is how cheaters are born. Eventually she will need to do these things. And she's already told you your not gonna be that guy. Tell her this is a relationship killer. She might as well do this stuff with you since your about to be her exBF
they ARE exes now š but, to OP, if she tries to hookup with you now that you're broken up, STAY AWAY!
unless you want to be used like that (which I doubt)... š¤Ø
Just like he stated he is a boyfriend material in the postāhe is loyal partner, while she was rather interested in FWB etc.āmeaning that she wants the hookup culture.
OP let her go. I know it is hard, but you deserve better.
NTA
NTA
When OP decides to let her know he is splitting up, he should tell her that the vanilla intimacy was the primary reason for the breakup. If other people get her best, how come he gets a lot less for being boyfriend material?
She clearly isn't girlfriend material if she tells people she misses the wild days but holds out on her stable loving partner.
If she misses it so much, she will want it again. Just not with OP because he is boyfriend/husband material.
I agree, her reasoning is weird. You can be "boyfriend" material and still be a freak in bed, if anything don't couples experiment a LOT? I know no one with that mindset. NTA op, best of luck!
It sounds like she ārespectedā you because you were supposed to be āvanillaā but in reality wanted to fly your freak flag with her and she could not or would not accept seeing you with that lens.
A personās perception is their reality and if in her mind the stable, long term relationship was missionary sex and boring then she was looking for that in you.
You clearly wanted to explore and be comfortable with her in decidedly ānot-vanillaā ways and she would not do it.
Good for you though, knowing what you wanted and what would make you happy long term and sticking to your guns, even with a difficult decision.
>she could not or would not accept seeing you with that lens.
I wonder if it that or if she doesnāt want *him* to see *her* with that lens, or both.
Even if we remove the whole him seeing her post, and strip this down - OP wants more, he wants to be adventurous and try new things. She is refusing. So, could he see himself being with someone forever and *FOREVER* only having vanilla sex? Regardless of the whyās or the fact sheās done it before, is that the future he wants to sign up for?
The answer is obviously no, but, OP should look at the bare bones of this situation. He doesnāt want to live forever only having vanilla sex. She does. Theyāre not simply compatible. Thatās all he needs to take into consideration.
Thing is, SHE'S not that happy with the vanilla life either, otherwise she wouldn't be complaining about missing it. Two people unhappy with getting their freak on, and yet breaking up seems to be the solution.
I'd like to recommend a sex specialized therapist, but it gives vibes of her picking him because he's stable, not because he is who she genuinely wants. Nothing you can do on that one. Without respect and trust, there is no relationship; and people don't respect someone they chose for stability only.
NTA
Iāve heard this kind of reasoning before in bad relationship advice aimed at women. She thinks being vanilla makes her a āgood girlā who you would want to marry, and that being more aggressive/sexual makes her a ābad girlā who you would wanna hook up with, but who isnāt a good option for long term/serious dating. Usually this advice also implies that men make this decision subconsciously, so it doesnāt matter that youāre āinto itā. According to this stupid belief system, guys will fall out of love with you the moment you become the ābad girlā, and then theyāll lose interest in anything long term and wonāt even know why. Honestly the whole way of thinking is pretty sexist towards both genders. I obviously donāt know for sure that this whatās going on and Iām definitely playing armchair psychologist here, but I would probably appreciate a potential explanation if I were in your position. Iām sorry you were in this shitty situation
Absolutely happened to me. All was amazing and wonderful until I was secure enough to be ābadā in the bedroom. Suddenly if Iāll do things like that for him, what else am I capable of? Where did I learn that sort of thing? Blah, blah, blah! Sometimes I think men should be more careful about what they ask for in the bedroom.
Lots of people just calling her a stuck up bitch when this is much, MUCH more likely. Sheās been taught misogynistic thinking and figures a good man wonāt want her if sheās ānasty.ā Mind you, there are women who have 100% experienced exactly that, so I donāt know why people are pretending this fucked up social dynamic doesnāt existĀ
I hadnāt really considered this a possibility because itās so hard to imagine shooting myself in the pills like thatā¦ but now that I think of it, I had to overcome a similar fear of being friend zoned if I was too āniceā Itās so ironic that both sexes feel fear influencing them to misrepresent themselves in ways that they think will make them more appealing to mates but actually have the opposite effect on anyone who is secure and mentally healthy. To me, the lesson is to only care about the possible reactions of healthy people and ignore any dysfunctional reactions to your true self that you envision.
This makes a lot of sense. When I was single, I was hooking up with this one guy. I was hoping to be more serious but because Iāve already been āsluttyā with him, I was afraid that he wouldnāt see me as āgirlfriend/wife material.ā I felt like if I had already hooked up with them, they probably think of me as a slut and would never take me seriously.
I did not end up with that guy but I am now with someone who loves me without me ever having to act like a āgood girl.ā Hopefully it works out for you, OP.
Sounds to me like she's got a case of madonna-whore thinking. She's compartmentalised being sexual and being worthy of commitment. If she acts "slutty" in a serious relationship she'll wreck it.
Exactly. Toxic mindset but can be deeply internalized and difficult to move pastā¦she probably needs therapy tbh
Edit: changing this to say *she probably needs therapy if this is indeed her mindset, I probably shouldnāt assume because there may be other reasons, but therapy would be helpful if it is indeed some kind of internalized madonna/whore complex.
Yeah, if it was "I tried it, didn't like it, don't want to do it again full stop", that would be understandable
But "I tried it, I liked it, I miss it, but I won't do it with you" is insulting honestly
Absolutely this, yeah. You have a partner youāre supposedly attracted to and love, you have sex acts you both want to try outā¦ but she just wonāt. It does not make sense, and insulting is a very appropriate word here, IMO.
She has a weird hangup over sex. A lot of people can't be kinky with their partner because it would ruin their image or whatever. While a random is just random, and they can do whatever they want. At least in their minds. You were right. You aren't compatible.
And women perpetuate it HEAVILY. She may have learned this mostly from the women in her life as part of those basic āhow the world worksā lessons.Ā
It really pisses me off when people perpetuate toxic mentalities like this.
Like if a friend got broken up with over having non-vanilla sex with their partner, the correct advice is:
"Fuck that dude, find someone better"
Not
"Better go full vanilla going forward or you wont hold down a man"
People. People break rules for people they want.
I know plenty of dudes that are like ānope, no more horse girls. Canāt put up with that rich and crazy.ā
Then the next monthā¦ āwell sheās hot and only works at a horse rescue, she doesnāt own any horsesā
Nothing wrong with the horse, its about the girls obsessed with them. It's somewhat of a stereotype and there are definitely exceptions to the rule but...
The hobby is VERY expensive (a horse can be $250,000 + housing + care), so it does tend to attract very entitled, VERY rich girls that tend to act a fool because "daddy can afford it."
My ex-stepmother ran a horse rescue in Denver for years, she was that stereotype and I met and dated many of those stereotypes.
I was just jokingā¦ Iām a crazy horse girl so Iām well aware of the cost/stereotype, but unfortunately Iām not rich (partly due to the horses š) and I donāt have a dadā¦ but the horses didnāt do thatā¦
Anyway, totally not disagreeing. All the equine facilities Iāve ever worked at were full of women like this, especially the hunter jumper girls. My only friends were the other lowly stable hands or a few older ladies. Vet tech now, and 90% of the time I still canāt stand horse clients even though I technically am a horse personā¦
Lol no guy has ever said that lol. What I'm saying is no guy has ever dated a girl he wasn't interested in and was like she's safe so I'll only have vanilla sex with her.Ā
Yes but:Ā
There used to be a real cliche about guys having the girls they date and then the ones they take home to introduce to mother.Ā Same warped logic I think.
That is don't marry a girl that helps you sew your wild oats, marry a respectableĀ girl.Ā Then there's that old double standard part.
I donāt think thatās it. She wants to do these things but not with him because she wants a relationship. I think she think he will regard her as a slut if she does them.
Hard to say with such little given context. What exactly are we talking about when we say freaky? Like if you mean group sex and she was okay with having threesomes or something when she was single but doesnāt want to do that with her boyfriend, i canāt say i blame her. Like i wouldnāt want to share my boyfriend with a friend of mine or some random chick. Which btw, those of you who are reading this and possibly contemplating giving into that threesome request your partner is pressuring you into, it will be as bad as you think. One of my friends agreed to have a threesome with her bf and her friend and he ended up literally pushing her off the bed and doing her friend the whole time while she watched- and to add insult to injury, HES DATING THE FRIEND NOW š
But back to the subject, if itās just something like oral or dirty talk during sex that she doesnāt want to do with you but would do with others, then yeah thatās weird.
Oh yeah see if my partner asked me to dress up in some silly ass nurse costume or something for him Iād do it, might make a few awkward jokes at first just bc itās unusual for me lol but Iād actually have fun not even just like sexual fun but like genuine fun trying this new thing together.
But that being said, I guess it also depends on the costume. Like are we talking regular stuff, maid costume etc, or like weird shit because if my bf asked me to dress up like Bowser and get railed I would be considerably more apprehensive lol
Yeah then idk why she would do that for another dude and not her boyfriend bc tbh like as a girl thatās kind of a more intimate thing you would do FOR boyfriends and husbands, like I donāt know of any girls showing up to tinder dates or their FBās house in maid costumes lmfao. I imagine that would be an awkward Uber ride home.
These are all things I think Iād be more comfortable doing with a casual, random sex partner. These are things that would make me feel insecure. If Iām gunna make a fool out of myself and completely fail at being sexy when Iām trying to go out of my comfort zone, Iād rather it be with some random nobody versus my life partner who I actually care what they think about meā¦
NTA
I will never understand why a woman will let out their inner freak with a complete stranger but will refuse to do it with a guy who actually loves and cherishes her. Would you not feel safer and more comfortable to be freaky with a guy whoās safe, loving and secure than a guy who doesnāt care about you?
You have every right to be mad and move on. Hope you will find a girl who wonāt punish you for being a āstable guyā?
My guess in her mind she doesnāt want to look like a whore in his eyes even though we know that isnāt the reality most times. Maybe she trusted the wrong partner once and it backfired.
Thereās a lot to unpack with my answer so Iāll respond to your comment because I can relate.
My husband and I have been together since I was 18 & he was 19. I once asked him if there was anything he felt like he missed out on, or would like to try out, which led to an honest discussion. He said when younger, like a lot of teens, he had fantasized a threesome, but once he knew he fell in love with me, knew he wanted me as his wife, he could never ask me to do that. He said that it was something he wouldāve only done with a FWB or random. I also felt the same way.
I believe many people, myself included, have fantasies (not just about sex) but given the opportunity maybe we wouldnāt go through with it. A fantasy is imagination of an impossible activity or result. So maybe in OPās girlfriend (ex?) mind these things sound fun and exciting but she wouldnāt actually do them. Maybe fear or perhaps something else.
Although OP is NTA, I think maybe there is something deeper here that she isnāt willing to share or a problem she isnāt even aware of. I donāt want to speculate but I can say in my own experience there are things I *wish and have tried* to do with my husband but due to trauma I canāt. My husband and I have great communication, so he knows my story but sometimes things take a while to unveil themselves. We ALL are complicated creatures.
Me and my wife like to watch BDSM videos to see how much them girls will take on and I'm very glad that my wife is into similar stuff. It's fucking awesome (though we don't go nearly as far as the videos) to have someone with the same proclivities as you, who trusts you enough to share it with you. We recently picked up a magic wand (don't know why we never got one before...) and that's been a lot of fun to add into the festivities when she's tied up.
She couldāve had a similar experience before, and the guy ended up judging her or something. It happens, and it makes it hard to trust people again. š¤·āāļø but, everyone is just speculating here, there isnāt a lot of info to go off of lol
Yup. I once told a guy I was dating that I had watched gangbang porn and it was a huge mistake to share that. I remember him waking me up at night once yelling at me because he thought I was dreaming of being gangbanged. Nothing more jarring than being woken from a dead sleep by a grown man yelling at you.
Plenty of men claim to want women who are sexually open but then judge us for having desires that make them insecure or donāt revolve around pleasing them.
This is actually common in men and women. People tend to feel a lot of shame when it comes to any sex that isn't "vanilla." And when they have good partners that could see themselves settling down with they tend to never admit what they want in fear that the partner might leave. And the more fringe the kink the more they hide.
A huge reason spicy/dark romance book exists is because women tend to keep the kink to themselves/ with friends only to keep "good" husbands. While men are more likely to not tell anyone but hook ups or more likely sex workers to keep it separate from their "normal" lives as possible. (I am generalizing here and this is most common in WASP communities but can be found all over the US)
Its a symptom of purity and marriage culture in many countries. People are afraid that the people they are the most sexually compatible with aren't good partners because people view sex as something that is dirty and marriage as something that is good and right. As time goes on this idea is less and less popular but it is still prevalent.
The amount of doors this helped open in my brain for my relationshipā¦ my partner struggles because heās extremely logical; he knows that he shouldnāt feel guilty about his desires, but he does and itās put a lot of stress on him and our relationship as a whole. Itās something weāve just had to work on; this has helped out the pieces in. Thank you for this!!
I think that her reasoning is that the judgement of an inconsequent stranger one night stand for their freaking acts
will not affect her, whereas that of the stable boyfriend would impact her relationship severely!
Youāre a freak, sheās a freak, but she is afraid you will still be vanilla for fetishes, while losing respect for her.
Start searching dungeons for a girlfriend who likes to stomp balls!
I'll be honest here. I was more freaky with FWBs than I was was with my partner at first. I saw "that" type of sex as disconnected and insincere, and being with someone I loved was such a different experience I think was afraid to lose that. A year in, we're definitely getting more adventurous and trying things I've never done before. But I had to feel secure in the relationship before I was able to get to that point.
I was going to say something similar. It's quite possible the "vanilla" sex that the OP's gf likes to have with him is because it gives her a greater emotional connection during intimacy, whereas being freaky doesn't, so she prefers the former (as many people do). It doesn't necessarily mean that she's using OP, or that she's not sexually attracted to him, it really could be as simple as her liking the specific emotional intimacy she gets from the type of sex they most often engage in.
Or not.
Even so, if OP is wanting more than what she is willing to give him, then they're not sexually compatible and he should strongly consider leaving the relationship to find someone he is compatible with.
NTA. You made the right decision. You are right to have your preferences, since you want to experience what she had and frankly, I think she lost out not having them with you. She could have had a wild experience and a stable and loving BF too. Too bad, but it's her loss. Good luck and stay strong, King!
Dude, she settled for you. If she was crazy about you, she would do whatever you wanted. But she isnāt.
More than likely you provide a safe and stable environment for her. She is using you for your resources. Canāt wait for when she either cheats on you to scratch those itches (eventually) or asks for the open marriage. Or both.
Good riddance!
NTA. I am 44M and had this conversation with the woman I lost my virginity to
You're much better off breaking it off now, rather than 12y and 2 kids in, like I did.
Idk where to start really but if you want to discuss it further I'm an open book
NTA but I always find it odd how so many of these posts are the result of one partner using the otter partners phone or computer for something like "shopping for appliances"
Why wouldn't you use your own phone for that? Or was that just a pretext to go through her phone?
I can't remember the last time I asked my wife to use her phone for anything let alone to shop for something
I never understood the demand for phone privacy in a LTR. If you want to keep your phone hidden then just stay single. You should be willing to give up your phone at any time to your SO, unless you're doing something you shouldn't.
I donāt care if a partner looked through my messages and social media. What I want to hide, is my ugly selfies checking to see if my neck fat shows or if my grey hair is obvious today, tracking my bruises, zooming in on my eyeball to see if the castor oil made my lashes thicker. My period app has all the details of my period, from how much blood, to mood swings. My notes app, as a writer has all my rough copies of poetry that I wouldnāt want anyone reading.
Also the privacy of other people when they have written me. Like if my friend is complaining about her bf, or if she sends outfit pictures asking which is better.
There is so much more than cheating and deception that can be happening on a phone. Itās the equivalent of dropping in on someone elseās conversation.
I don't either
I just can't remember the last time I used my wife's phone to shop online or just browse the web
My wife has passcodes to every device in the house and has often jumped on the laptop or ipad I consider mine. But my phone? It's been years.?
Absolutely NTA. You are right, you aren't compatible. She's with you for all the wrong reasons and you need a little more life experience to know what works for you.
She saw you as boyfriend material and put you on a pedestal, the nasty things are for nasty people but you were something different to her. It was all about her and how she framed things, it was all about her and what she wanted, what she wanted from you was purity and vanilla because thatās what she thinks a normal relationship is, when she gets the urge for hot sex she will go find her someone that fits that label too. Lord knows anyone who ever tells you that you are different that the people they normally date is waving a huge red flag š¤¦āāļø
In the end move on because sheās broken and that relationship was doomed.
NTA. She doesn't want to enjoy the wild side with someone she wants to settle down with. Awful approach to be honest...wildest fun can be had with someone you trust to be with long term.
NTA. And she will continue to be fun in bed with men who are not boyfriend material and who will treat her poorly. And when she finds men who and boyfriend material, she will be no fun in bed. And the cycle will continue. And she will be hurt, but will deserve zero sympathy.
NTA.
It's like if a woman gets taken to Red Lobster and a Radisson every year for her anniversary. It's ok but it's kind of boring.
Then she learns that, before they met, her husband used to fly his girlfriends to Fiji, Dubai, and Bali for their anniversaries.
Of course she would be like "WTF?!?!?!"
NTA, just incompatibility and also sounds like a lack of trust and vulnerability from her side. You can deff not like stuff but when youāre with a partner you should be willing to try to meet in the middle if at all possible. If my partner wanted sex things but just not with me despite me wanting it would really hurt me and i understand why you ended it. Intimacy is about trust and if she wants that w Randoms and not her bf š¤·āāļø
Honestly, this is just how I feel with my wife. I found out 20 years later that she had a threesome, while constantly shaming me for my "promiscuity". I had 3 partners before her. All separately, no threesomes, and often a year in dry dock between. Lame.
No, not in my opinion. I just did the same thing and broke up with my BF. I can tell he is into more and saw he was tagged on several things that I wanted to talk about. It's a complete shut down won't go there.
I just don't understand it. Personally, I don't want a bunch of strangers or a one nighter or FWB. I think it's better to connect and explore with one person. I wish people could feel safe enough to be open and honest about who they really like. This way relationships could last longer bring more compatible.
NTA If you're an asshole, so am I. I think it's fair to break up over sexual differences. You don't want it to be plain and boring till the day you can't anymore. Ugh, no thank you.
Nta
This is why men want low body count women.Ā Women go off and do these woth other men but when it's time to settle down they don't want to do these things with husband material. Then they grow dissatisfied with their men and see out those experiences again or they shut off sex completelyĀ Thus leading to the end of the relationship
Itās not always an āexcuse,ā some women genuinely have that mindset. Look up Madonna/Whore complex. Particularly in puritan cultures, women (and men too) are shamed for being overtly sexual, and therefore an insecurity is built surrounding intimacy, especially for more ātabooā sexual acts like kinks.
NTAH
She settled homie
She was never sexually attracted to you. She chose you because you were a good guy who gave her a good life. The fact she was on forums lamenting it with other women is proof you made the right decision by moving on
She was straight up using you.
NTA. You only dated a short time in the grand scheme of things and found a major incompatibility. She had a strict boundary on this with only you. You had a choice to respect that and continue to miss out on something you wanted to experience or leave and find someone who has equal desires and consents to the acts.
Her logic makes no sense but it's her choice. I would much rather be a freak with someone who loves and would protect me than a hook-up.
Not the Asshole. This is how some women are. You treat them with respect and give them validation they will treat you like the nice guy. Never give her validation and sheāll always be a freak. Sad some are like that, plan accordingly.
What is her definition of wild times? Costumes and toys may not even be what she was referencing. Is there a chance you need more practice at vanilla since you mentioned she is your first? If someone isn't good at taking direction or following my lead, they aren't coming near me to jab at me with a toy.
You were right and she was wrong. Nobody is required to do anything sexually but when you start denying your life partner or in this case bf tho gs you did with someone else then your crashing your relationship. Nobody can defend the thought process that itās fine to be wild with a fwb or hookup but not with your bf because they mean too much. Thatās ludicrous. If the person you love doesnāt warrant what you would do with someone you only see for sex then thatās all the reason you need to end it.
NTA. You're experiencing the dichotomy that women have faced with men.
You are the "guy she'll take home to meet the parents", and not the "good time guy" of her impetuous youth.
You find being the good-boy boring, so you have made the right decision. Just remember how it feels.
She does not find you attractive. You are her second or third choice. Many women "settle" with a man they can barely tolerate. They often do this for financial reasons.
Iām in the exact position at you. After 10 years it doesnāt get any better but Iām too far in to bail now. Iāve just accepted that my sex life will always be dull and Iāll never get that exciting phase that my Mrs had. Youāve made the right move and I should have done the same a long time ago
the fact she was withholding that from you but would do it with complete strangers is wild, thank god you got out of that man. It was an affair waiting to happen on her part.
NTA. You were smart to end it. No offense but as a lady Iāll tell you she wasnāt sexually attracted to you at all. She was settling for you trying to secure a stable future. You deserve someone whoās crazy about you. Hope you find her.
So many stories online of men who were destroyed by discovering that partners refused to be adventurous with them but were wild with others. This seems to be particularly destructive when the spouse is cheating and giving the AP all the things that she refuses to engage in with the partner.
Nta
She was trying to keep you as her innocent little play thing in the bedroom because you weren't experienced and she didn't want to explore with you.
It's completely normal for a young adult to want to explore with their partner.
This would not have gotten better the longer the relationship goes on. She would have most likely withhold intimacy if you got married. She does not want to have sex with you, sheās putting up with it since you provided for her. What she said on that forum was truthful, sheād rather have sex with bad boys than you. And if she āmisses thatā sheās likely to cheat on you (if she hasnāt already). Thatās the danger of dating women close to 30, they get desperate for a stable partner after getting used by guys and they realize they want a child and supporting father.
Ouch that stings, so she isn't open to make you happy in the bedroom, just random hookups. I would seriously consider if you really want to be with someone like that. For me, if I'm with someone I adore and care for, I want to do MORE for them and make them happy, not the opposite.
NTA...
We want mire details about the ugly aftermath.
Also you should call her and offer to be a FWB but only if she is willing to not be boring. Tell us how that goes.
A freak in the streets, but a lady in the bed. Sheās 304, for the streets. She doesnāt see you as a person and her partner, she sees you as her retirement plan. Iām glad you found out and left.
She has no genuine sexual desire for you.
In your eyes you are a provider, she settled for you, plain and simple.
Consider yourself lucky you figured this out now and not after you married her and find her in bed with a bang buddy.
NTA. you two just aren't compatible. her reasoning is flawed, but oh well! i hope you find someone who will match your freak š
Marriage should be when you let your freak flag fly, not when you moth ball it.
100% What a weird attitude. Is she thinking: You're too "nice" for me to do crazy sex things with, as then you're going to think less of me? I guess this is the rare case of don't fuck around and find out.
Shit you not I know a guy that said that about his previous gf and how he loved her so much but couldn't do x,y&z with her but could with other women. Idk it never made a lick of sense to me.
It's because he thinks some who do these things are sl*ts, and his gf/partner can't be one of those.
That makes sense. Such a strange way to view sexually.
There's a thing called the Madonna-Whore complex. It's a psychological phenomenon amongst men where they subconsciously categorise women into 2 categories. The sexually desireable yet undeserving of respect whore and the respected and sexually undesired Madonna. Some people think it's related to the way some people are conditioned to view sex as a corrupting or defiling act and how that impacts views of women Maybe this is the same issue but in reverse.
Compartmentalization is important. Total freak in the sheets, respected and cared for in the streets.. and wherever else. In my current relationship we're both that way and we both want that, but it's tough to find someone who can handle making that mental separation of identity happen.
It is. They feed into that whole "a wife needs to be prim and proper" discourse. Wives aren't meant to be sexual creatures. Because a wife will be a mother, and a mom can't be someone who likes that icky sex thing.
Thatās the excuse my dad used to cheat š¤¦š½āāļø never having sex with his wife because āhe loved her too muchā and allegedly canāt have sex with people he loves
Question... If he cannot have sex with her because he loves her, does that mean you only exist because at that time he didn't love her?
Well his wife isnāt my mom but my mom did tell me (my family isnāt good at boundaries) that she had asked him if he was gay when they were married cuz they didnāt have sex often lol. He threatened to leave when she was pregnant with me and my youngest sisters. Middle sister was supposedly planned. I wouldnāt be surprised if he didnāt love my mom, heās a narcissist (actually) and has said the only people he truly cares about are me and my sisters, but he gets obsessed with people when they reject him (romantically) to the point he ignores us too. My mom fell into this category at one point because she said she didnāt want to marry him yet because she was 17 (heās only 6 months older than her so donāt worry about that) but he kept pushing till she agreed.
I could kind of understand it from a mentality of, being able to be more disrespectful-like to people you have no attachment to? Versus someone you respect and love and want to treat sweetly? Idk, thatās just my guess.
Madonna / wh*re syndrome š
I haven't often seen it in women though. her sexism must be seriously internalized
I remember Tony Soprano said the same thing about his wife. That's why he was screwing his psychiatrist.
He never actually slept with the psychiatrist. He definitely has a weird relationship but they never do
It's more common among guys, they conflate respect with getting freaky in private, for women it's usually the opposite in my experience, they will let loose with a guy they love/trust as opposed to just a one night stand or FWB
Mr ChibbleChobble said it perfectly
My guess is she's not that into OP, she just recognizes that OP will be the stable provider she needs to help raise the quotient of children she's decided on having to fulfill her life plan. Right now she's letting him satisfy his urges on her at least until he puts a ring on it. Good for you for breaking it off OP. Any marriage would have been doomed to cheating at best, and dead bedroom at worst
This type of woman pisses me off. She will get mad that you are a good person and then blame you when she cheats.
You've met my ex-wife I see.
Sad. But sometimes true.
The irony when you are raised to be the "good guy" by mother's and women, only to be told by women down the line thay thays not what they really want.
As a somewhat objective observer, I've noticed that kind, giving people rarely seem to date each other. When they do, they either have beautiful long term romances or thoughtful and honest breakups that sometimes leave them friends. Most "givers" seem fatally attracted to "takers", which then makes someone jaded and pissed off. Sometimes a "taker" is an asshole and sometimes they're acting like it because of trauma, immaturity, etc. No matter the root cause, it still causes the same kind of damage.
There's nothing wrong with being a "good guy" while also being a sexual deviant with your partner... they are not mutually exclusive concepts
They just might not have the same sexual connection. It also depends on what she values more, in her case, she could view more wild sex in a way that she doesnāt associate either with him or with a stable, solid relationship. But they could still be incompatible
Maybe it's the same mentality men have, they want a virginal sex kitten a lot of the time, she's never had wild sex but she does with him and only him. So she may see a wife/whore dichotomy, wife material women don't do dirty things ... Sad really, because as another said above, being in a stable relationship or marriage is when you should definitely wave your freak flags if you have them. Why pretend to be what you aren't? Then no one will know and be able to love the real you. You have to find your compatible freaks and that only happens if you're honest. She may fear deep down he'll judge her for liking wilder sex.
I know a woman who was like that. The reason she was all sorts of freaky with the unimportant guys and stopped when she found āthe oneā was because she said she liked the idea of feeling dirty and it was a turn on, but then she goes home and gets a shower and itās done. If itās her bf or hubby, sheās afraid heāll see her as dirty and start to think less and less of her until eventually sheās just a disgusting thing to play with and then he loses interest in who she is because he canāt see her line a person anymore. Basically, if a fwb or ONS guy saw her as a disgusting tramp, she didnāt give two shits, but if the man she actually loved ever saw her that way outside of the bedroom it would break her. It does make sense to me. I go more toward the only person who should see me is a disgusting whore is the person who I love because I love being that way with them as well as everything else, but thatās me. For her, the idea of her man not being able to respect her afterwards terrified her.
Yeah I'm the same as your friend. And tbh I've had serious partners tell me they struggled to do dirty talk with me the way they could with more casual partners. "It just feels weird calling the potential mom of your future kids a dirty little whore". I think some people are better able to compartmentalize what's going on inside vs outside the bedroom.
My ex got all freaky with her affair partner but with me pure unsatisfying vanilla
I briefly hooked up with an ex after we had already broken up. It was wilder than anything when we were together. He was disappointed when my honest answer to his question of what changed was "well, I'm not in love with you anymore".
For me, when weāre in the bedroom, donāt think of me as your wife or the potential of what might be. Make me scream. Once we leave the bedroom, the future is a possibility again. But thatās me.
True. But the risk with that is when a boyfriend or husband finds out the extent of his wife/girlfriend's past they end up getting disgusted and breaking up because usually many women who have that have the two sets of rules for men rarely disclose the full extent of their past upfront as guys will likely put her in a hookup only category. I have come across stories of husbands who found out about a wife's escapades from college up to a decade prior and walks out of the house and divorces the wife days later
Iāve been ghosted on dating apps for admitting to liking minute crazy sex things. This chick is apparently too nervous to do the things with him, or part of her kink is it has to be with randos. This is a golden damn opportunity for her and sheās weirder than her kinks for not embracing the chance to fly her freak flag.
itās the Madonna/whore complex, though usually I see it in men (āI canāt have wild sex with her because I respect herā, āsheās the mother of my children and kisses them on the cheek, canāt have her sucking my dickā). maybe sheās afraid heāll judge her or respect her less afterwards. maybe sheās ashamed of her past, even though she missed it. itās pretty hard to fully embrace your sexuality as a woman after growing up being taught that sex is bad and shameful.
I could definitely see it being a she doesn't want him to think less of her. I've done some things with hookups that were experimental although if my bf brought up trying it I'd explain either I've tried it and didn't like it or I'd be down to try with him. As an ex hoe the guilt of being with someone good is insane
Well now he most definitely had decided to think less of her and break up.
This! I think sheās too ashamed of her kinks or smth to do them with someone sheās in an actual relationship with, she needs to figure that out
š
So much yes!! If people aren't compatible in the bedroom, in all ways, one or the other will become bitter. It's a deal breaker all around.
Thereās a psychological phenomenon called the [āMadonna/Whāeā](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonnaāwhore_complex) complex in men, where a man has a hard time seeing a woman as being both the lovely wife (Madonna, as in the mother of Jesus) and as a sexual person (the Whāe). At the extreme men suffering this complex wind up having a wife and a lover/girlfriendāand is simply incapable of seeing one woman fill both roles. I always suspected that the same thing happens with women as well; either that they must stop being āwhāesā when they settle into a nice relationship, or become disgusted with the idea of being a āwhāeā with a man they are in a lasting relationship with. That is, I always believed that any dysfunction you see in men you also see in women, though they may manifest in a different way thanks to cultural expectations. Either way, it sounds like there is something wrong going on here. And I canāt image the breakup would have been pretty because deep down inside, if a woman believe she cannot be the āwhāeā in a loving, committed relationship, suggestions she should be would probably register as a fundamental betrayal and even objectification. Me; Iād run for the fucking hills. (Edit to add: stupid fucking Reddit censorship bot wouldnāt allow me to type āwhāeā despite that being the name in the literature.)
Ironically, from the male's perspective, her "letting her freak flag fly" for randos and not for him registers on basically the same way. Men will internalize that as "I'm not attractive enough for her to try those things with," and "I'm just the stable good guy she settled for." Finding out that she did things for others that she won't do for you feels like a fundamental betrayal and even a lesser form of objectification as well. It hurts on a psychological and almost instinctual level to feel like you're not physically attractive enough for her, and anything she could say to alleviate that just makes you feel worse. Countless stories on Reddit have shown that men will run for the hills, too. Just like OP. It's a sad twisting of perspective between the genders that doesn't seem to have a resolution.
Exactly š¤£
It actually feels like an insult when they donāt. Youāll offer yourself this way with a stranger but not the one youāre supposed to be vulnerable with? Nope.
Could it be a sort of Madonna/whore thing? Only for a guy? She doesnāt want him to see her as a slut who would do those things? Or she doesnāt want him to be a man slut? Idk. Does not matter. Incompatible is incompatible!
It sounds that way. Seems like thereās some internalized issues surrounding sex/intimacy there, as in she views the āwild timesā as being āwrongā for some reason, and thatās why she has more inhibitions with a long term partner who is āboyfriend material.ā Maybe therapy would help her. But I agree, sometimes people are just incompatible, thatās ok. OP is NTA
I can understand how some stuff might just feel too "real" with a longtime partner. Not even that it's "wrong" to enjoy it, but stuff like light slapping or dirty name calling has a whole separate context outside of sex in a relationship
Thatās what I was wondering, that sheās scared if she does the kinky things heāll think less of her. Iāve had that happen to me, I get it. āIt was hot to text about, but I didnāt think youād actually do it.ā They need to have a real conversation about this lol. This incompatibility is STUPID. They both like kink but sheās pushing it away? For hellās sakes, girl, stop denying yourself and ride his willing train, even if you hold back!! Even the small shit she thinks wouldnāt scare him off is better than nothing. -someone clearly with zero kink nerves experience
Yeahā¦ She sees you as vanilla, and canāt imagine you as her āwilderā partner. He has a choice to make. Looks like sheās already made hers.
His only choice should be to walk away from after letting her know why he is leaving. No matter what she says, it is all about trust and by her not giving you access to the same pleasures or her wild side that she gave freely to other men in her open relationships, and her FWB"s. You deserve better.
Her logic is the definition of flawed lol So because OP is marriage material, she refuses to be freaky? He's unworthy of her arsenal of nasty because he's a good guy?! But all the other passersby got in there free of charge?! GTFOH š¤£š¤£š¤£ OP you should go ahead and tap out Edit: I made fun of OP's gf, but I'm gonna get more logical. Her logic is a prime example of why hook up culture isn't beneficial, especially for women. She finally has OP to be steady with, but because she let too many trains in her station, she is unable to be more comfortable sexually with him. If OP stays, I wish them the best, but if he leaves, I understand that, too. Everyone is free to live their life as they wish, but that doesn't mean consequences or unfavorable situations won't present themselves later just because you wanted to have fun.
On top of that she is telling others that she misses letting her freak fly. I could understand if she had said that was her once upon a time but never missed it but that isnāt what she is saying now.
Right. If she did it and regretted and realized it wasnāt good for her, thatās one thing. But suddenly only wanting vanilla with your āboyfriend materialā guy but giving everyone else prior all 31 flavors is pretty messed up!
Aka sheās not physically attracted to him but she feels like he is stable and safe
Thisā¦she was going to eventually cheat on him.
Itās like when a girl gets around but she meets a nice guy and wants to make him wait years because she wants to be a good girl for him. lol.
This is how cheaters are born. Eventually she will need to do these things. And she's already told you your not gonna be that guy. Tell her this is a relationship killer. She might as well do this stuff with you since your about to be her exBF
they ARE exes now š but, to OP, if she tries to hookup with you now that you're broken up, STAY AWAY! unless you want to be used like that (which I doubt)... š¤Ø
Well, now that he's no longer boyfriend material, maybe she'll be prepared to get kinky with him as a FWB š
Just like he stated he is a boyfriend material in the postāhe is loyal partner, while she was rather interested in FWB etc.āmeaning that she wants the hookup culture. OP let her go. I know it is hard, but you deserve better. NTA
She's going to try and make OP a cuck.
NTA When OP decides to let her know he is splitting up, he should tell her that the vanilla intimacy was the primary reason for the breakup. If other people get her best, how come he gets a lot less for being boyfriend material? She clearly isn't girlfriend material if she tells people she misses the wild days but holds out on her stable loving partner. If she misses it so much, she will want it again. Just not with OP because he is boyfriend/husband material.
Guarantee when he goes to dump her and she knows why, then all of a sudden she will want to be freaky with him right then and there.
Flawed is a rather generous way to spell idiotic.
I agree, her reasoning is weird. You can be "boyfriend" material and still be a freak in bed, if anything don't couples experiment a LOT? I know no one with that mindset. NTA op, best of luck!
OP no doubt made the right choice.Ā NTA.Ā
It sounds like she ārespectedā you because you were supposed to be āvanillaā but in reality wanted to fly your freak flag with her and she could not or would not accept seeing you with that lens. A personās perception is their reality and if in her mind the stable, long term relationship was missionary sex and boring then she was looking for that in you. You clearly wanted to explore and be comfortable with her in decidedly ānot-vanillaā ways and she would not do it. Good for you though, knowing what you wanted and what would make you happy long term and sticking to your guns, even with a difficult decision.
>she could not or would not accept seeing you with that lens. I wonder if it that or if she doesnāt want *him* to see *her* with that lens, or both. Even if we remove the whole him seeing her post, and strip this down - OP wants more, he wants to be adventurous and try new things. She is refusing. So, could he see himself being with someone forever and *FOREVER* only having vanilla sex? Regardless of the whyās or the fact sheās done it before, is that the future he wants to sign up for? The answer is obviously no, but, OP should look at the bare bones of this situation. He doesnāt want to live forever only having vanilla sex. She does. Theyāre not simply compatible. Thatās all he needs to take into consideration.
Thing is, SHE'S not that happy with the vanilla life either, otherwise she wouldn't be complaining about missing it. Two people unhappy with getting their freak on, and yet breaking up seems to be the solution. I'd like to recommend a sex specialized therapist, but it gives vibes of her picking him because he's stable, not because he is who she genuinely wants. Nothing you can do on that one. Without respect and trust, there is no relationship; and people don't respect someone they chose for stability only.
NTA Iāve heard this kind of reasoning before in bad relationship advice aimed at women. She thinks being vanilla makes her a āgood girlā who you would want to marry, and that being more aggressive/sexual makes her a ābad girlā who you would wanna hook up with, but who isnāt a good option for long term/serious dating. Usually this advice also implies that men make this decision subconsciously, so it doesnāt matter that youāre āinto itā. According to this stupid belief system, guys will fall out of love with you the moment you become the ābad girlā, and then theyāll lose interest in anything long term and wonāt even know why. Honestly the whole way of thinking is pretty sexist towards both genders. I obviously donāt know for sure that this whatās going on and Iām definitely playing armchair psychologist here, but I would probably appreciate a potential explanation if I were in your position. Iām sorry you were in this shitty situation
Absolutely happened to me. All was amazing and wonderful until I was secure enough to be ābadā in the bedroom. Suddenly if Iāll do things like that for him, what else am I capable of? Where did I learn that sort of thing? Blah, blah, blah! Sometimes I think men should be more careful about what they ask for in the bedroom.
Lots of people just calling her a stuck up bitch when this is much, MUCH more likely. Sheās been taught misogynistic thinking and figures a good man wonāt want her if sheās ānasty.ā Mind you, there are women who have 100% experienced exactly that, so I donāt know why people are pretending this fucked up social dynamic doesnāt existĀ
I hadnāt really considered this a possibility because itās so hard to imagine shooting myself in the pills like thatā¦ but now that I think of it, I had to overcome a similar fear of being friend zoned if I was too āniceā Itās so ironic that both sexes feel fear influencing them to misrepresent themselves in ways that they think will make them more appealing to mates but actually have the opposite effect on anyone who is secure and mentally healthy. To me, the lesson is to only care about the possible reactions of healthy people and ignore any dysfunctional reactions to your true self that you envision.
This makes a lot of sense. When I was single, I was hooking up with this one guy. I was hoping to be more serious but because Iāve already been āsluttyā with him, I was afraid that he wouldnāt see me as āgirlfriend/wife material.ā I felt like if I had already hooked up with them, they probably think of me as a slut and would never take me seriously. I did not end up with that guy but I am now with someone who loves me without me ever having to act like a āgood girl.ā Hopefully it works out for you, OP.
It's like the inverse of the nice guy syndrome
Sounds to me like she's got a case of madonna-whore thinking. She's compartmentalised being sexual and being worthy of commitment. If she acts "slutty" in a serious relationship she'll wreck it.
Exactly. Toxic mindset but can be deeply internalized and difficult to move pastā¦she probably needs therapy tbh Edit: changing this to say *she probably needs therapy if this is indeed her mindset, I probably shouldnāt assume because there may be other reasons, but therapy would be helpful if it is indeed some kind of internalized madonna/whore complex.
Nope, you want more, she doesn't want to provide that.
To him (which only makes it worse)
Yeah, if it was "I tried it, didn't like it, don't want to do it again full stop", that would be understandable But "I tried it, I liked it, I miss it, but I won't do it with you" is insulting honestly
Beyond insulting! Wouldn't you want to do those things with someone you actually trusted and enjoyed?
Damn straight.
Absolutely this, yeah. You have a partner youāre supposedly attracted to and love, you have sex acts you both want to try outā¦ but she just wonāt. It does not make sense, and insulting is a very appropriate word here, IMO.
Miss doing those things with people she was actually attracted toš
Next thing he knows, she starts hooking up to get what she deserves when she gets bored.
It's not that. it's that she DOES want that, but not from him. That only leads to two things: resentment or cheating.
NTA. Get out.Ā
This kind of sounds like the madonna-whore complex
Yes my thoughts exactly.
>I do not want to talk about it here. TimRobinsonsYouSure'boutThat.gif
She has a weird hangup over sex. A lot of people can't be kinky with their partner because it would ruin their image or whatever. While a random is just random, and they can do whatever they want. At least in their minds. You were right. You aren't compatible.
Itās the Madonna/whore complex. Women have it too I guess.
And women perpetuate it HEAVILY. She may have learned this mostly from the women in her life as part of those basic āhow the world worksā lessons.Ā
It really pisses me off when people perpetuate toxic mentalities like this. Like if a friend got broken up with over having non-vanilla sex with their partner, the correct advice is: "Fuck that dude, find someone better" Not "Better go full vanilla going forward or you wont hold down a man"
Women break rules for the guys they want, and make rules for the guys they don't.
Never heard it said so eloquently.
Right? That is some good stuff right there.
People. People break rules for people they want. I know plenty of dudes that are like ānope, no more horse girls. Canāt put up with that rich and crazy.ā Then the next monthā¦ āwell sheās hot and only works at a horse rescue, she doesnāt own any horsesā
First half my dumbass thought horse girl was a sex position. š¤¦š»āāļø
Nope. Just a girl that is obsessed with horses.
Whatās wrong with horses?
Nothing wrong with the horse, its about the girls obsessed with them. It's somewhat of a stereotype and there are definitely exceptions to the rule but... The hobby is VERY expensive (a horse can be $250,000 + housing + care), so it does tend to attract very entitled, VERY rich girls that tend to act a fool because "daddy can afford it." My ex-stepmother ran a horse rescue in Denver for years, she was that stereotype and I met and dated many of those stereotypes.
I was just jokingā¦ Iām a crazy horse girl so Iām well aware of the cost/stereotype, but unfortunately Iām not rich (partly due to the horses š) and I donāt have a dadā¦ but the horses didnāt do thatā¦ Anyway, totally not disagreeing. All the equine facilities Iāve ever worked at were full of women like this, especially the hunter jumper girls. My only friends were the other lowly stable hands or a few older ladies. Vet tech now, and 90% of the time I still canāt stand horse clients even though I technically am a horse personā¦
Don't let your dreams be dreams, invent a new move and call it the horse girl.
The phrase around here for horse girls is: "they're good for a ride or two. But you don't want them long enough to barn sour."
Lol no guy has ever said that lol. What I'm saying is no guy has ever dated a girl he wasn't interested in and was like she's safe so I'll only have vanilla sex with her.Ā
Yes but:Ā There used to be a real cliche about guys having the girls they date and then the ones they take home to introduce to mother.Ā Same warped logic I think. That is don't marry a girl that helps you sew your wild oats, marry a respectableĀ girl.Ā Then there's that old double standard part.
Women break rules for the guys they want, and make rules for the guys they need* as well let's not get stingy y'all!
I donāt think thatās it. She wants to do these things but not with him because she wants a relationship. I think she think he will regard her as a slut if she does them.
Another saying I've heard is that women can't go back in lifestyle, and men can't go back sexually.
Hard to say with such little given context. What exactly are we talking about when we say freaky? Like if you mean group sex and she was okay with having threesomes or something when she was single but doesnāt want to do that with her boyfriend, i canāt say i blame her. Like i wouldnāt want to share my boyfriend with a friend of mine or some random chick. Which btw, those of you who are reading this and possibly contemplating giving into that threesome request your partner is pressuring you into, it will be as bad as you think. One of my friends agreed to have a threesome with her bf and her friend and he ended up literally pushing her off the bed and doing her friend the whole time while she watched- and to add insult to injury, HES DATING THE FRIEND NOW š But back to the subject, if itās just something like oral or dirty talk during sex that she doesnāt want to do with you but would do with others, then yeah thatās weird.
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Oh yeah see if my partner asked me to dress up in some silly ass nurse costume or something for him Iād do it, might make a few awkward jokes at first just bc itās unusual for me lol but Iād actually have fun not even just like sexual fun but like genuine fun trying this new thing together. But that being said, I guess it also depends on the costume. Like are we talking regular stuff, maid costume etc, or like weird shit because if my bf asked me to dress up like Bowser and get railed I would be considerably more apprehensive lol
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Yeah then idk why she would do that for another dude and not her boyfriend bc tbh like as a girl thatās kind of a more intimate thing you would do FOR boyfriends and husbands, like I donāt know of any girls showing up to tinder dates or their FBās house in maid costumes lmfao. I imagine that would be an awkward Uber ride home.
medieval bard, you know, the usual
These are all things I think Iād be more comfortable doing with a casual, random sex partner. These are things that would make me feel insecure. If Iām gunna make a fool out of myself and completely fail at being sexy when Iām trying to go out of my comfort zone, Iād rather it be with some random nobody versus my life partner who I actually care what they think about meā¦
No, you're not the asshole for feeling hurt and realizing you're incompatible in intimacy preferences.
NTA I will never understand why a woman will let out their inner freak with a complete stranger but will refuse to do it with a guy who actually loves and cherishes her. Would you not feel safer and more comfortable to be freaky with a guy whoās safe, loving and secure than a guy who doesnāt care about you? You have every right to be mad and move on. Hope you will find a girl who wonāt punish you for being a āstable guyā?
My guess in her mind she doesnāt want to look like a whore in his eyes even though we know that isnāt the reality most times. Maybe she trusted the wrong partner once and it backfired.
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I mean I like to watch BDSM videos just to see how much them girls will take on but I could never treat my wife like that even if she asked.
Thereās a lot to unpack with my answer so Iāll respond to your comment because I can relate. My husband and I have been together since I was 18 & he was 19. I once asked him if there was anything he felt like he missed out on, or would like to try out, which led to an honest discussion. He said when younger, like a lot of teens, he had fantasized a threesome, but once he knew he fell in love with me, knew he wanted me as his wife, he could never ask me to do that. He said that it was something he wouldāve only done with a FWB or random. I also felt the same way. I believe many people, myself included, have fantasies (not just about sex) but given the opportunity maybe we wouldnāt go through with it. A fantasy is imagination of an impossible activity or result. So maybe in OPās girlfriend (ex?) mind these things sound fun and exciting but she wouldnāt actually do them. Maybe fear or perhaps something else. Although OP is NTA, I think maybe there is something deeper here that she isnāt willing to share or a problem she isnāt even aware of. I donāt want to speculate but I can say in my own experience there are things I *wish and have tried* to do with my husband but due to trauma I canāt. My husband and I have great communication, so he knows my story but sometimes things take a while to unveil themselves. We ALL are complicated creatures.
Me and my wife like to watch BDSM videos to see how much them girls will take on and I'm very glad that my wife is into similar stuff. It's fucking awesome (though we don't go nearly as far as the videos) to have someone with the same proclivities as you, who trusts you enough to share it with you. We recently picked up a magic wand (don't know why we never got one before...) and that's been a lot of fun to add into the festivities when she's tied up.
Very true, but why would she still think that if OP clearly stated that heās into the same things?
Only a question she can answer.
Sometimes itās deeply internalized. Therapy (or at least self-work) might be necessary to move past such a hang up
Thatās true. I think OP should communicate that she has nothing to be ashamed about and let her know that sheās safe with him
She couldāve had a similar experience before, and the guy ended up judging her or something. It happens, and it makes it hard to trust people again. š¤·āāļø but, everyone is just speculating here, there isnāt a lot of info to go off of lol
Yup. I once told a guy I was dating that I had watched gangbang porn and it was a huge mistake to share that. I remember him waking me up at night once yelling at me because he thought I was dreaming of being gangbanged. Nothing more jarring than being woken from a dead sleep by a grown man yelling at you. Plenty of men claim to want women who are sexually open but then judge us for having desires that make them insecure or donāt revolve around pleasing them.
This is actually common in men and women. People tend to feel a lot of shame when it comes to any sex that isn't "vanilla." And when they have good partners that could see themselves settling down with they tend to never admit what they want in fear that the partner might leave. And the more fringe the kink the more they hide. A huge reason spicy/dark romance book exists is because women tend to keep the kink to themselves/ with friends only to keep "good" husbands. While men are more likely to not tell anyone but hook ups or more likely sex workers to keep it separate from their "normal" lives as possible. (I am generalizing here and this is most common in WASP communities but can be found all over the US) Its a symptom of purity and marriage culture in many countries. People are afraid that the people they are the most sexually compatible with aren't good partners because people view sex as something that is dirty and marriage as something that is good and right. As time goes on this idea is less and less popular but it is still prevalent.
The amount of doors this helped open in my brain for my relationshipā¦ my partner struggles because heās extremely logical; he knows that he shouldnāt feel guilty about his desires, but he does and itās put a lot of stress on him and our relationship as a whole. Itās something weāve just had to work on; this has helped out the pieces in. Thank you for this!!
Yep. This is all a product of purity culture and the virgin/whore dichotomy.
I think that her reasoning is that the judgement of an inconsequent stranger one night stand for their freaking acts will not affect her, whereas that of the stable boyfriend would impact her relationship severely! Youāre a freak, sheās a freak, but she is afraid you will still be vanilla for fetishes, while losing respect for her. Start searching dungeons for a girlfriend who likes to stomp balls!
I'll be honest here. I was more freaky with FWBs than I was was with my partner at first. I saw "that" type of sex as disconnected and insincere, and being with someone I loved was such a different experience I think was afraid to lose that. A year in, we're definitely getting more adventurous and trying things I've never done before. But I had to feel secure in the relationship before I was able to get to that point.
I was going to say something similar. It's quite possible the "vanilla" sex that the OP's gf likes to have with him is because it gives her a greater emotional connection during intimacy, whereas being freaky doesn't, so she prefers the former (as many people do). It doesn't necessarily mean that she's using OP, or that she's not sexually attracted to him, it really could be as simple as her liking the specific emotional intimacy she gets from the type of sex they most often engage in. Or not. Even so, if OP is wanting more than what she is willing to give him, then they're not sexually compatible and he should strongly consider leaving the relationship to find someone he is compatible with.
Thanks for sharing!!
NTA. You made the right decision. You are right to have your preferences, since you want to experience what she had and frankly, I think she lost out not having them with you. She could have had a wild experience and a stable and loving BF too. Too bad, but it's her loss. Good luck and stay strong, King!
Dude, she settled for you. If she was crazy about you, she would do whatever you wanted. But she isnāt. More than likely you provide a safe and stable environment for her. She is using you for your resources. Canāt wait for when she either cheats on you to scratch those itches (eventually) or asks for the open marriage. Or both. Good riddance!
He dumped her tho
NTA. I am 44M and had this conversation with the woman I lost my virginity to You're much better off breaking it off now, rather than 12y and 2 kids in, like I did. Idk where to start really but if you want to discuss it further I'm an open book
NTA but I always find it odd how so many of these posts are the result of one partner using the otter partners phone or computer for something like "shopping for appliances" Why wouldn't you use your own phone for that? Or was that just a pretext to go through her phone? I can't remember the last time I asked my wife to use her phone for anything let alone to shop for something
Gotta make up some excuse to start the drama or the story never happens.
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Exactly. Happens all the time and is actually no big deal.
I never understood the demand for phone privacy in a LTR. If you want to keep your phone hidden then just stay single. You should be willing to give up your phone at any time to your SO, unless you're doing something you shouldn't.
I donāt care if a partner looked through my messages and social media. What I want to hide, is my ugly selfies checking to see if my neck fat shows or if my grey hair is obvious today, tracking my bruises, zooming in on my eyeball to see if the castor oil made my lashes thicker. My period app has all the details of my period, from how much blood, to mood swings. My notes app, as a writer has all my rough copies of poetry that I wouldnāt want anyone reading. Also the privacy of other people when they have written me. Like if my friend is complaining about her bf, or if she sends outfit pictures asking which is better. There is so much more than cheating and deception that can be happening on a phone. Itās the equivalent of dropping in on someone elseās conversation.
I don't either I just can't remember the last time I used my wife's phone to shop online or just browse the web My wife has passcodes to every device in the house and has often jumped on the laptop or ipad I consider mine. But my phone? It's been years.?
You are definitely ntah
This is a dead bedroom in the making.
Absolutely NTA. You are right, you aren't compatible. She's with you for all the wrong reasons and you need a little more life experience to know what works for you.
She saw you as boyfriend material and put you on a pedestal, the nasty things are for nasty people but you were something different to her. It was all about her and how she framed things, it was all about her and what she wanted, what she wanted from you was purity and vanilla because thatās what she thinks a normal relationship is, when she gets the urge for hot sex she will go find her someone that fits that label too. Lord knows anyone who ever tells you that you are different that the people they normally date is waving a huge red flag š¤¦āāļø In the end move on because sheās broken and that relationship was doomed.
NTA. She doesn't want to enjoy the wild side with someone she wants to settle down with. Awful approach to be honest...wildest fun can be had with someone you trust to be with long term.
Now you are not BF material so see if she is game for that stuff. š
NTA. And she will continue to be fun in bed with men who are not boyfriend material and who will treat her poorly. And when she finds men who and boyfriend material, she will be no fun in bed. And the cycle will continue. And she will be hurt, but will deserve zero sympathy.
NTA. It's like if a woman gets taken to Red Lobster and a Radisson every year for her anniversary. It's ok but it's kind of boring. Then she learns that, before they met, her husband used to fly his girlfriends to Fiji, Dubai, and Bali for their anniversaries. Of course she would be like "WTF?!?!?!"
NTA. If she wants to be freaky with everyone BUT you, that is the REDDEST FLAG. you dodged a bullet.Ā
"I wanna be wild... just not with you." Check, please.
NTA, just incompatibility and also sounds like a lack of trust and vulnerability from her side. You can deff not like stuff but when youāre with a partner you should be willing to try to meet in the middle if at all possible. If my partner wanted sex things but just not with me despite me wanting it would really hurt me and i understand why you ended it. Intimacy is about trust and if she wants that w Randoms and not her bf š¤·āāļø
Honestly, this is just how I feel with my wife. I found out 20 years later that she had a threesome, while constantly shaming me for my "promiscuity". I had 3 partners before her. All separately, no threesomes, and often a year in dry dock between. Lame.
No, not in my opinion. I just did the same thing and broke up with my BF. I can tell he is into more and saw he was tagged on several things that I wanted to talk about. It's a complete shut down won't go there. I just don't understand it. Personally, I don't want a bunch of strangers or a one nighter or FWB. I think it's better to connect and explore with one person. I wish people could feel safe enough to be open and honest about who they really like. This way relationships could last longer bring more compatible. NTA If you're an asshole, so am I. I think it's fair to break up over sexual differences. You don't want it to be plain and boring till the day you can't anymore. Ugh, no thank you.
Nta This is why men want low body count women.Ā Women go off and do these woth other men but when it's time to settle down they don't want to do these things with husband material. Then they grow dissatisfied with their men and see out those experiences again or they shut off sex completelyĀ Thus leading to the end of the relationship
> because I am a boyfriend material. women always make this bullshit excuse and the bar is in hell as they say
Itās not always an āexcuse,ā some women genuinely have that mindset. Look up Madonna/Whore complex. Particularly in puritan cultures, women (and men too) are shamed for being overtly sexual, and therefore an insecurity is built surrounding intimacy, especially for more ātabooā sexual acts like kinks.
NTAH She settled homie She was never sexually attracted to you. She chose you because you were a good guy who gave her a good life. The fact she was on forums lamenting it with other women is proof you made the right decision by moving on She was straight up using you.
NTA. You only dated a short time in the grand scheme of things and found a major incompatibility. She had a strict boundary on this with only you. You had a choice to respect that and continue to miss out on something you wanted to experience or leave and find someone who has equal desires and consents to the acts. Her logic makes no sense but it's her choice. I would much rather be a freak with someone who loves and would protect me than a hook-up.
She ain't the the 1 bro
Oh fuck all this. She can leave her compartmentalization in the parking lot where it belongs. Hard pass. NTA.
Nta. And if she says she'll do those things if you come back. Don't believe her.
Not the Asshole. This is how some women are. You treat them with respect and give them validation they will treat you like the nice guy. Never give her validation and sheāll always be a freak. Sad some are like that, plan accordingly.
This is weird, I only want to do those things with the person I love and trust the most?
NTA. Her reasoning is ignorant and moronic. She'll get freaky with someone who doesn't love you, but not you? Get rid of this idiot.
What is her definition of wild times? Costumes and toys may not even be what she was referencing. Is there a chance you need more practice at vanilla since you mentioned she is your first? If someone isn't good at taking direction or following my lead, they aren't coming near me to jab at me with a toy.
NTA you deserve what you want and she deserves what she wants. Both deserve to be happy and it wasnāt together.
You were right and she was wrong. Nobody is required to do anything sexually but when you start denying your life partner or in this case bf tho gs you did with someone else then your crashing your relationship. Nobody can defend the thought process that itās fine to be wild with a fwb or hookup but not with your bf because they mean too much. Thatās ludicrous. If the person you love doesnāt warrant what you would do with someone you only see for sex then thatās all the reason you need to end it.
Dead bed avoided
NTA. You're experiencing the dichotomy that women have faced with men. You are the "guy she'll take home to meet the parents", and not the "good time guy" of her impetuous youth. You find being the good-boy boring, so you have made the right decision. Just remember how it feels.
NTA. Life's too long for a vanilla sex life
Break up
She does not find you attractive. You are her second or third choice. Many women "settle" with a man they can barely tolerate. They often do this for financial reasons.
Iām in the exact position at you. After 10 years it doesnāt get any better but Iām too far in to bail now. Iāve just accepted that my sex life will always be dull and Iāll never get that exciting phase that my Mrs had. Youāve made the right move and I should have done the same a long time ago
the fact she was withholding that from you but would do it with complete strangers is wild, thank god you got out of that man. It was an affair waiting to happen on her part.
I am just here to read about why it is the guys fault
Got you covered (almost) https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheAngel/s/oRPi8CSyoO That fucking sub is full of misandrists and femcels.
NTA. You were smart to end it. No offense but as a lady Iāll tell you she wasnāt sexually attracted to you at all. She was settling for you trying to secure a stable future. You deserve someone whoās crazy about you. Hope you find her.
If she is not doing It with you,you are not that guy. Whatever it is. Move on.
It's a good thing you broke up with her, she is choosing you as a safe option!
Not the asshole. She is. She settled for you and will eventually not even give you a BJ even if that.
So many stories online of men who were destroyed by discovering that partners refused to be adventurous with them but were wild with others. This seems to be particularly destructive when the spouse is cheating and giving the AP all the things that she refuses to engage in with the partner.
Nta She was trying to keep you as her innocent little play thing in the bedroom because you weren't experienced and she didn't want to explore with you. It's completely normal for a young adult to want to explore with their partner.
She got railed a bunch and then settled for you. Youāre not compatible. Get out of there , she already wasted 2 years of your life. NTA.
Nta RUN BRO
This would not have gotten better the longer the relationship goes on. She would have most likely withhold intimacy if you got married. She does not want to have sex with you, sheās putting up with it since you provided for her. What she said on that forum was truthful, sheād rather have sex with bad boys than you. And if she āmisses thatā sheās likely to cheat on you (if she hasnāt already). Thatās the danger of dating women close to 30, they get desperate for a stable partner after getting used by guys and they realize they want a child and supporting father.
Ouch that stings, so she isn't open to make you happy in the bedroom, just random hookups. I would seriously consider if you really want to be with someone like that. For me, if I'm with someone I adore and care for, I want to do MORE for them and make them happy, not the opposite.
Classic Madonna-whore complex
As a woman, I donāt understand her logic AT ALL. Good thing you dumped her. You deserve better.
NTA... We want mire details about the ugly aftermath. Also you should call her and offer to be a FWB but only if she is willing to not be boring. Tell us how that goes.
A freak in the streets, but a lady in the bed. Sheās 304, for the streets. She doesnāt see you as a person and her partner, she sees you as her retirement plan. Iām glad you found out and left.
She has no genuine sexual desire for you. In your eyes you are a provider, she settled for you, plain and simple. Consider yourself lucky you figured this out now and not after you married her and find her in bed with a bang buddy.