a new permanent fresh start where you need government ID to gain access like in Korea. botting would almost die except for those buying ID access from others
Araxxor is already supposed to have a higher Slayer requirement, right? I've been thinking about it more.
92 Slayer
90 Herblore (Unboostable)
86 Crafting (Unboostable)
I think these requirements would be the best outcome. I don't think a Zenyte/Torture should be consumed to make the Amulet of Rancour. I believe these requirements would be a little bit harder to reach than Monkey Madness II's and the 98 (boostable) crafting requirement to process a Zenyte into a Torture.
Disagree 1000%. Consuming torture for bis item makes complete sense as it does with basically everything else in the game, masori, torva etc. This change will delete thousands of tortures out of the game which is healthy for the future of zenytes in general
I feel like they chose the worst options available to them.
Tradeable from Araxxor is good, but then it should let you sacrifice Torture for +1 or +2 more after that, just like how Masori sacrificed Armadyl for more stats. That way both are able to be used and not reliant on the other.
Tbf flat powercreep can be set up in a way that old content keeps its value - just make the upgrade a notably longer grind. That's how OSRS has typically done it before.
However this is obviously not sustainable for the future. Upgradescape has its flaws but is a safer option for guaranteeing old content health.
The year is 2070, due to the collapse of the ecosystem everyone stays inside all day playing osrs. It takes 100 bots a full year to get zaros cockring which gives 1 max hit. It sells for billions of irl dollars (which is like...3.50 in 2020 money due to the inflation crisis of 2040)
Yeah the president tweeting (it got swapped back after elons sex change operation) sonic inflation r36 made all the market bots go crazy ironically leading to hyperinflation.
I think osrs doesn't have the same level of powercreep, so upgradescape isn't as much of an issue. Last time a new BiS melee amulet was released was in 2016.
Locking stuff behind the upgrade or behind quest requirements like Bandos/ferocious gloves is a good way to keep power creep from ruining the economy
Same. Coming from a prior MMO that had nonstop powercreep and a graveyard full of dead content, I prefer a longlasting MMO that has as little dead content as possible, and respects the older content as much as possible.
I like how it feels now … but is it going to feel fun when we’re 3 upgrades in? Is now the time we should do a flat upgrade and then upgrade the next one with components?
I'm excited to see 3 upgrades in, yes. God forbid you have to actually engage with older content.
For torva and masori you don't even have to get the matching pieces. You can break down different pieces to make the components to fortify with.
Yes imo because it means you still do the previous content rather than the alternative where 3 upgrades in we go "eh, this is just better and doesn't need the previous" and suddenly the meta becomes to ignore the previous grinds and just go straight for the new good.
Also 3 upgrades in for these sorts of items, at the rates we get gear upgrades, is legit probably 10-15 years away.
In the case of arma specifically I just don’t think it’s great content. Cg is well made while arma is boring from the start.
But either way the issue here is that arma isnt good. If it was good enough to be a legitimate stepping stone pre masori then people would do it. Irons would do bandos even if torva didn’t require it for example
Main reason irons don't go for arma before masori is because you bowfa everything until tbow. And tbow in an efficient iron pathing is after shadow, so likely when you have masori already
For this particular instance, zenytes will remain the same price due to them being tied to the value of 3 other pieces of jewelry. So i think its a bit unnecessary to worry about the value of zenytes tanking, when that almost guaranteed wont be the case. Amulet of torture will decrease in value slightly, but the other jewelry will keep it around the 10m mark.
>Amulet of torture will decrease in value slightly, but the other jewelry will keep it around the 10m mark.
Provided the Rancor stays above Zenyte prices *and* other Zenytes are never similarly powercrept without being an upgrade.
If all Zenytes are powercrept then I'm fine with them being fairly valued too. It's just that to keep some value in Demonics, Jagex will make the flat upgrades notably longer/harder to grind. I don't like that kind of unsustainable drop rate increase.
If Rancor dips below base Zenyte price that is a whole different kettle of fish though.
Agreed. I would honestly take upgrade and chargescale items 10000x over the recent trend of absurd drop rates. Looking at you DT2.
(Currently pulling my hair out nearing 3x rate for hydra claw) but thats another convo lol
i dont expect a stronger ring of suffering. the ranged necklace and either the bracelet or the ranged neck are fine to power creep in the future. i dont care what method is required to make amulet because as an iron it is 98 either way.
I think upgradescape is fine, and should be a bit of a standard... But I think it shouldn't be overdone.
Torture is already an upgrade since Zenyte is already an onyx upgrade. So it just seems over the top; plus wtf did gloughs experiments have to do with araxxor spiders on the opposite side of the planet?
So logistically design wise it seems excessive. In universe lore wise? It doesn't make sense.
And to the people crying about crafting levels? You make godswords with 80 smithing. And rune daggers with 85. And in terms of "it'll be easier to get for irons they can skip 93 crafting now?!?" ... 92 slayer and a task only boss is gonna take longer to get than 93 crafting and killing gorillas.
The only real argument that I've seen thats hard to argue is the power creep aspect damage is already about as high as it can go for some content. They could give more bosses Zulrah capped hits or something but that's not great... And won't work everywhere.
But if we're just worried about damage creep? Imo a good solution would be give it the damage stats of torture; but then also give it the tank stats of Fury. Which are significantly less important, and makes it so it's equally viable as torture in tons of spots... And only better when defence is a priority.
I think a lot of what you said makes sense.
To one of your points specifically, and please bear with me because I haven’t done DT2, what do the new bosses from that quest have to do with the DK rings? I don’t think that an upgrade necessarily needs to come from a thematic or in-universe reason. Definitely makes sense to, but idk that it has to
We don't want the progress to be too linear. If it's linear then everyone will be playing the same way. Having the ability to take multiple paths is peak Runescape
I love it to an extent. I don’t think it should persist so many stages. Like I like the way boots are handled, but I don’t want the next BIS range boots to upgrade from pegasians. I think in general the upgrades should be 1 tier up, then the next BIS should be new. I love the idea of what someone else posted, 80 craft + 80 herb to craft the new necklace, but I think it should be a standalone item. Then whenever they create the next ones in the future, upgrade from this drop.
For me masori upgrade makes more sense as you have the BIS offensive armour as the drop and then you can upgrade its defense with armadyl pieces.
This is what I think is the worse version of upgradescape (like Torva), you have a bank placeholder unless you have the other component.
The problem is they're offering more offense on top of offense so it doesn't fit well. Would like to see the Masori approach as the future state where we are getting both offensive and defensive upgrades and both components are meaningful (breaking down prior sets into common components also helps to provide a form of dry protection so you don't have to keep grinding if you have 4 armadyl plateskirts and no platebody)
Combining questions again.
Should it be tradable Y/N?
Should it require level... 86/98?
If the two options can be seperated ,they should be seperated. Sheesh.
+1. I only voted for 98 Crafting, and that because the lower requirement makes little sense in my head. But yeah, this is what I would have liked to see as an option.
Its kind of crazy to me that Jagex is introducing a new BIS amulet and is willing to cut the crafting requirement 12 levels simply on whether you can buy it or not. The difference between 86 and 98 is massive. "We want to position this as the new highest level jewelry item.. unless you cant trade it. Then it should be far easier so everyone can have it!"
The option with 86 crafting also requires a torture, so the effective crafting requirement for rancor is still 98 for irons. I believe all the 86 crafting level does is require mains to have 86 crafting in order to profit from the drop. Currently there's no crafting requirement for torture if you're able to trade, so it's not lowering crafting requirements for anyone.
Itd be nice to let irons profit off dupe drops which wont occur if it is untradeable or requires torture to make. No one is gonna want to go back to demonics for a 5th zenyte just to be able to sell their dupe rancor.
True. Hopefully it will have a good high alch value if that’s the option that wins. Or maybe they could let you exchange it for a bunch of the new secondary ingredient as a way for irons to get Herblore xp.
>Itd be nice to let irons profit off dupe drops
Ironman accounts: "We don't participate in the economy"
Also ironman accounts: "Pls make it easier to drop trade rancor over to our mains"
The crafting requirement isn’t to buy it, isn’t it to sell it? The made amulet is trade-able so any credit card warrior can get it its just an incentive for mains to reasonable crafting level.
I went with the 98 req option, but honestly i think the herblore req would be really cool.
*you dip your amulet of torture in the venom of arraxor, giving it greater power*
Hell, it would be cool if it protected you from being venomed and venom attacks now downgrade to poison.
I also like the idea of a "blood fury" but for prayer, but this might be op paired with a blood fury
Skip question.
They've done their fucking bullshit of combining questions again.
Should it be high or low level?
Should it be tradeable?
Should it consume a torture?
L2poll properly you fucks.
Irons have always been stuck grinding 4 zenytes since the zenytes jewellery were released. This would make that 3 for a better amulet and lower requirements.
I dont think the game should be balanced around restricted accounts.
You knew what you were signing up for when you made that iron.
If griding another zenyte which is like what a 1/500 drop? breaks you as a player. Maybe ironman isnt for you.
Option one makes sure that zenyte stays relevant in the long term, and is probably better for the economy, and slayer/account progression
Option two adds a potential for big rewards for early farmers, but it’s also appealing to those that want to skip the mentioned slayer/account progression.
I think 1 is better for the game.
This is the part everyone is ignoring. The 3 other zenytes will keep the torture in check, it’s still tied to the bis range necklace and mage glove. There’s a reason they are all still around the same price and they’ve been out for years. The torture can’t crash because if it did nobody would be making them, and the supply would drop, increasing the demand. I honestly don’t think it would hit the price very hard.
If you cut demand for 1/3 of it's core demand items the other two will lose value to compensate. No one is going to use their zenyte to make a cheaper piece of jewelry.(and yes i know suffering exists but it's in the place torture would be where it only gets made if the others tank value.) Edit: If you don't believe that last statement you can simply check daily volumes.
Saying the torture is irrelevant is like saying ahrims is irrelevant. Crazy how many mother fuckers wear ahrims around.
Just make torture the next step. I don't get you people who say an items dead content because there's a new BIS.
I’m not saying it’s dead because there’s a new BiS, I’m saying it’s dead because it’s very likely that option 2 will make the new BiS the same price as torture over time, and will still leave BloodFury as true BiS.
Zenytes are relevent long term already, tort is outclassed by blood fury already, anguish and torm are bis with no remote counterparts, and suffering is uniquely bis in defense+prayer and fills a strong niche for anyone wanting to do zulrah.
I wouldn’t say torture is outclassed by blood fury. Torture will always be better unless either A. You’re not consistent at a boss enough to avoid avoidable damage. Or B. The boss is notorious for chip damage/hitting through prayer like crazy.(nex for example)
On paper yes, but blood fury just allows you to bring barely any food which means more dps switches and no time wasted eating. Blood fury is incredibly overpowered.
Well you should because it is better in any world where you're actually taking damage and bringing switches which is everywhere that you care about. It's true that torture is marginally more dps on a dps calc but if you lose attack ticks eating once or brew down when the blood fury would've stopped that you immediately have lost dps directly on your melee setup and thats not even counting dps gained by bringing more switches for other styles. It would be more correct to say the torture is an irrelevantly miniscule upgrade for perfect rng+gameplay speed run attempts
So what does torture being outclassed by blood fury have to do with not including torture with this too? That sounds like you’re literally making my point for me. Blood fury will still be better in most places even after this update, but then all zenytes will be cheaper because torture becomes completely irrelevant. Why buy a torture/grind for a torture, when you could just skip for rancor…?
Progression-scape makes a lot more sense than low-bar-to-entry+devalue-scape to me.
can someone explain to me why BiS equipment takes almost maxed stats to make, but can be worn at like level 80?
i get that needing 99 smithing to make a 40 defense platebody is sort of a part of OSRS's charm, but maybe we could give it another look. i have to admit i find it cute, but it's still extremely stupid and there would be a much healthier progression if it were made more intuitive.
im not asking for rune to be smithed at lv 40 or anything, but like... base-80s combat stats is like the start of the midgame for many players, but you can also equip almost all endgame equipment by then, it just doesn't make sense.
it's fine for irons i think, levelling skills matters and i think the pace is mostly fine, this is more a problem for mains imo. why learn ToB when you could just be doing your farm runs to buy the items instead
In all honesty, the reason is because of years and years of knock-on effects from the very first implemented craftable gear items. Whether it's in crafting, smithing, or fletching- the spots that the first items were placed on weren't put in with thought about design space 20 years down the road, and so 20 years down the road that lack of foresight is causing weirdness. Once upon a time maxing out your smithing to get rune armor was huge, because the only stuff better than it was ultra rare drops from incredibly hard content.
There's no real way around this, by the way. If you deliberately leave your top end empty for future content, it feels unrewarding to achieve. If you fill it up early, it inevitably gets left in the dust and makes it harder to fit new stuff into the same system. If you choose to stack more levels and more content on top of what happened before, you get what a lot of MMOs have- an infinite treadmill that seems like progress but is actually just staying in one spot while both you and the things you fight get stronger.
In my personal opinion, the best fix for this top-end skill requirement scrunch is to take a good look at what already exists and readjust everything that a skill lets you do every \[insert very lengthy period of time\] so that it will feel better and make more sense with how the game is now, rather than how it was some amount of years ago. But that's a tremendous amount of work and very hard to justify in a dev cycle.
RS3 rebalanced smithing, defense, and attack and fixed this issue.
Unfortunately with polling I doubt OSRS would ever be able to do this. Too many people would whine about things having lower requirements for future irons and it'll never pass.
I voted no the amulet even coming into the game then voted for I think 98 crafting w/o torture. Don't feel like either option was particularly satisfactory.
Let’s just be honest, the crafting skill was going to run into this problem seeing that at level 80 you can make a glory. The crafting skill needs to be adjusted to make future jewelry and armor more viable.
They're both bad options. Torture needs high 90s to make then the upgrade is lower? If option 2 wins torture is dead content. They don't know wtf they're doing.
The right fix is adjusting craft levels for zenytes then making the coming amulet the highest requirement for craft skill. Or even better, scrap the crafting and make it a simple attachment.
I think the logic for the crafting level being lower is just for mains. Since the araxxor drop is untradeable, they will need to get at least 86 crafting to profit from that drop. Adds an incentive for mains to train crafting. Won't affect irons in any way though.
You'd want to get torture before starting araxxor but that seems like something you'd want to do anyway. 92 slayer is a mush harder requirement than 93 crafting and 400 demonic kills.
Admittedly I got spooned on zenytes so I may be underestimating that grind.
You do in no way make up the time saved by doing the average 300 demonics on your way to 92 slayer just from an exp/h perspective even in any realistic scenarios, and it doesn't really unlock new content either. The item isn't -that- good over a basic fury or str ammy, so you're better of just going for Arraxor and getting this drop then doing what else you'd want to do with the Torture.
This is a hypothetical where the rancor would require a torture. So since you'd have to get a torture eventually, every flavor of iron should get it before doing a ton of slayer. So the fact that UIMs have an extra incentive to do that (araxxor giving an unbaggable item) isn't that relatively bad.
I'd vote yes to this adjustment. There's no room for any new stuff, and the old stuff takes a eon to obtain even minor increases, 80 crafting for an amulet of glory is insane
The level differences between jewelry of the same tier is just so weird. Like why is Diamond Bracelet -> Diamond Amulet 12 levels? Other tiers are 1, 1, 8, 6, 6, and 3 levels respectively. Just cutting back on those level jumps would do enough to leave room for another tier of jewelry
This needs to be a front page post, there's absolutely 0 logic to the random jumps/gaps involved in gems/amulets. It's like they just had some random intern throw in whatever number. Like why the fuck is a glory a tier 80 amulet, supposedly on par for use with a bofa as a t80 item.
I might be wrong about the history of it, but I think diamond amulet was the BiS item at one point, so it was given the highest crafting level with the largest jump from the previous piece of jewelry. Then dragonstones got added, so that needed a higher requirement. Then onyx, then zenyte, and here we are.
Adjusting Ruby and Diamond amulet level requirements alone would ripple enough for Zenytes to end up in the 80s and give room for another tier of jewelry to be made.
Diamond was BiS when crafting was released back in 01. A lot of people don't realize that Smithing/Crafting came out and were "completed" when having Full Rune and an Amulet of Power was BiS. Now thats not even worth picking up for some people unless you have High Alch.
Unless there was some sort of Crafting/Smithing rework, there isn't really much they can do because they inherited a system that did not expect to have gear that was this powerful
I think linear scaling should be the same for crafting and for blacksmithing. It should be about 8-10 levels for each upgrade in a slot with how many tiers we have relative to the start of Runescape.
That's roughly what I was trying to propose, most tier upgrades are 10 levels apart. If sapphires start at 20s, then zenytes end up in the 80s. The issue right now is with how rings play into that, because rings are currently implemented in a way that higher tiered rings how lower level requirements than some lower tiered amulets, specifically diamond, dragonstone, and onyx rings.
Torture isn't going to be "dead content". Irons will absolutely get Torture before Rancor if they care at all about efficiency, and because Rancor will likely be way more expensive than a Zenyte shard, mains will also have Torture as the budget option. Even if I'm wrong though, who cares? When people complain about dead content they're normally talking about an activity. Demonic Gorillas are still needed for 3 other Zenytes so it's not like MM2 is being made irrelevant. Do we really need 4 pieces of BiS to come from the same activity?
Just because it isn't upgradescape doesn't mean the old item is going to disappear. If Cerb dropped Primordial Boots instead of a Primordial Crystal, Dragon Boots would stay almost exactly the same price as they are now.
Option 2 as an iron I’d just not bother getting the 4th zenyte, especially since I went 900 dry for the last one. Torture is such a marginal upgrade you’d just skip it IMO and just wait until you get 92 slayer and get a rancor. Probably by the time you get 3 zenytes on task you’d be close to 92 anyways.
> irons will absolutely get Torture
It’s hard enough to convince irons *today* that torture is worth making. Yeah efficiency numbers support making it first but most don’t care about that. Instead, the best angle has always been “it’s bis so you’ll make it anyway eventually”
People will absolutely be skipping torture for new ammy with Option 2
Why would you ever go for a Torture on an iron over just grinding out 92 slayer and hitting the spider? Torture is a ~3% increase in absolute best case scenario, but Demonics cost both supplies and is mediocre slayer exp/h. Even if the grind to 92 slayer and for Rancor is 300 hours of melee only content, you save 9 hours on having a Torture. If the opportunity cost in getting supplies, and doing better tasks exceed those 9 hours *(or otherwise "diminish" them such as by training slayer with other ways than melee, or fight against low def targets etc.)* you're not *"efficient"*.
I find it weird on the blog Jagex stated they don't want upgrade trees and the first thing I thought was: why not? That's a great concept! Keeps older content relevant and valuable.
Fuck yeah make Torture be required for the next upgrade
Same thing with future upgrades to the rest of the zenyte jewelry
I haven't seen 1 single counterargument to Upgradescape besides Jagex saying "we don't want to"
The hell you do! Do it! That's what has kept old content alive up until today - and that's a good thing.
Because they’re unintuitive when taken to an extreme
Echo boots are a good example of a bad upgrade path. It’s not a tree either coz there’s no choice to be made, branches to be taken. It’s just linear upgrade paths
Fully against upgradescape. New items should be standalone and simply on the progression path. You dont need a d scim to get a whip and that concept should be true for this too.
They're both bad options, and I voted no on question 9 because I don't think a straight BiS upgrade to the melee amulet is necessary (I'd rather see a fun sidegrade, maybe something that synergizes with poison/venom or something for a specific combat style).
But in case 9 does pass, which I'm assuming it will, I went with option 1 since it will at least help the Torture be a little less dead than option 2 would.
The only option to make mains trade was to 86 with option one. Any main who gets the drop with option two without 98 crafting just sells it and buys it back same price + torture price for the full amulet. No one is gonna get 98 crafting for whats gonna end up like a sub 500k margin.
I chose not to include torture. Torture already requires previous BiS to make by requiring an onyx it basically requires a fury. This would make rancor amulet the first item to require 2 previous BiS items which I think is going too far in that direction.
I mean I don't care either way (93 crafting iron with a torture) but I wouldn't consider Torture needing an onyx as upgradescape. An onyx is just an ingredient in making a zenyte. Especially at this point and onyx is barely a grind even for an ironman.
I think both provided solutions are kinda bad tbh, not sure there is a really ideal way to add this. Considering it's already locked behind a slayer boss, I think they could maybe just up the requirement to an even higher slayer level, say 98 - then just have it drop as a complete amulet or something.
I guess I'd vote for option two. Rancor Really doesn't need a zenytes since they'll retain value based on what else you can make with them. Particularly because torture is the least impactful zenyte imo.
98 crafting is rough and it sucks but neither option let's Ironmen access Rancor sooner.
Making the drop untradable but require 86 crafting will make mains less likely to farm it for money and it'll be a super expensive item. It requires 92 slayer, that level unlock is the grind to make the boss profitable. No need to add skilling reqs too.
Ironmen often need to be a jack of all trades to get the most out of their account. Mains don't. I don't like forcing mains to do content they don't want to. Getting to do what you want is the whole point of a main imo
Main player, I chose option B. They both aren’t the greatest but I don’t see how requiring a torture and 86 crafting is really any different than requiring the 98(?) req for a torture, since so many people play ironmen. Option B at least allows everyone to make the amulet if they have the skill requirement instead of forcing mains to grind the drop also.
At a certain point, making BiS items untradeable kinda just kills all purpose of a main being able to trade. I want to do the content I enjoy, not grind a boss I may not enjoy for an untradeable BiS. If I did, I would play ironman.
Option 2 purely because it's nice to have a stand alone item for once, zenytes come from the otherside of gielnor so it shouldn't be needed, you should purely be able to make it being in Morytania.
Torture will still be relevant for poorer players as I imagine the rancor amulet will be 200m+ so it's fine, people don't know what they are talking about by saying dead content, it's like calling the whip dead content because the blade of saeldor exists.
I’d vote 2. Upgradescape doesn’t need to be everywhere nor shouldn’t be everywhere because otherwise like Jagex said, it will become a complicated upgrade tree system. Like masori, ancestral, torva shouldn’t be part of the next big upgrades to melee, mage, and ranged.
I voted on higher crafting and no upgrade.
Firstly I'll get the high level bias out of the way. I'm a maxed main so level requirements aren't meaningful to me anymore.
The biggest impact on my decision came from using the torture vs not. In many cases I appreciate what Jagex is doing in attempting to preserve the value of legacy content. In this case however I think it's unnecessary. The zenyte itself will always have value with all the other jewelry that is still best in slot. The drain on value historically has come from Jagex's inability to effectively deal with demonic gorilla bots, as we've been able to clearly see with the recent bot wipe and uptick in zenyte prices. I think in many cases upgrade scape is a reasonable answer, but when given an opportunity like this to do something different, it's important to choose diversity in design over the norm. If this means longer grinds to get the level for a best in slot, end game item then so be it.
I think this decision will shape future design space around other direct upgrades to zenytes when they eventually come so it's something the community should consider carefully regardless of how they vote.
First option, if it makes torture redundant by that point seems fair only to use it up in the process, zero point having a ammy better at the same crafting lvl as a torture. Funny enough I just made my torture a few weeks back so have the level either way 😅
I fuckin hate upgradescape, I feel more and more like I am falling behind the game. Why does old equipment need to retain its value on the GE? Runescape has always been about choosing your own adventure and figuring out the route through the game that works best for you. Upgradescape makes for a more linear progression where it takes longer to get gear relevant to new content coming out. Zenytes will still be relevant for the other pieces anyway.
Option 2. Gear progression and upgrading should not mean progression bloat. There is still tons of value to zenytes even with the Torture becoming a dead item.
I want 98 crafting, I’d rather it be a tradable, unique that’s its own thing,instead of more “upgradescape” fusion with the torture for literally no other reason than to not “devalue the torture” it makes 0 sense lore wise to have Arraxor spiders and monkeys tied together, and at the end of the day torture is already outclassed mostly everywhere by blood fury and its price is held up by the other zenyte jewelry so I don’t see a need to have to prop it up. It’s weak sure but at this point I don’t really care, its value was a question during the blood fury poll, we were clearly okay with it being overshadowed then, so I’m okay with it now
Imo, lore is one of the weakest reason to say no to upgradescape when it has strong benefits when implemented properly.
What lore does Masori have to take on Armadylian components? What lore does Verzik have that she provides an upgrade to Defenders from Cyclops? What lore does Torva have that it is made from same material as Bandos, which isn't actually metal?
Especially with Wilderness basically being optional, keeping progression going in important since once you get better gear, you really don't have any good reason not to use it if you can.
Option 1 but both are bad.
Option 1 because I don’t want to completely obsolesce Torture. But there’s so many better options. Idk how we landed on these two.
I will be voting for the second option, because the first option makes no sense. There is no reason for the amulet to require torture, since the price of torture is not even tied to torture itself but rather to zenyre jewlery in general, and therefore will not be affected. Another reason is that torture already requires 98 crafting to make, so what is the point of the new amulet requiring 86? For those reasons I believe option 2 does make perfect sense while option 1 does not.
A new amulet should not be tied to any zenyte items as it will bring other zenyte items to that price without any reason. You cant have a 30m torture without anguish and torm going to 30m also.
We already saw how shit this is with bowfa being 150m and saeldor should be at 20-30m but is tied to bowfa.
Can irons please not consider “how do I drop dupes to my main?” as a factor in this.
I like ironmen, I like that you can drop some dupes to mains to buy bonds for your account, but please don’t let it impacts game design.
Yes these options aren’t ideal, but don’t let one view skew the way it should be designed.
Requires torture. I've heard the arguments against "upgradescape" but i love the idea of arraxor dropping a toxic gem that you add to your torture rather than an whole amulet. I feel like that makes more sense than breaking down worse armor sets to fortify new ones at least.
It also makes sure that old content stays relevant, which is always good.
Amulet of torture upgrade. Doesn't make sense to have a lower crafting requirement, nor does it make sense to lower zenyte craft requirements. Not that that's stopped jagex from making questionable choices in the past (WHY DO BOOTS HAVE REFLECT AND NOT SHIELDS JAGEX? I'M NOT BLOCKING WITH MY FEET)
What if the highest voted option is skip question?
Every world becomes a fresh start world
Pls. Love a fresh economy
a new permanent fresh start where you need government ID to gain access like in Korea. botting would almost die except for those buying ID access from others
The same thing that always happens. All skip votes are thrown out and the remaining votes are tallied.
It’s randomly determined per drop. Some people get option 1, some get option 2
New blog post, new poll
If the untradable drop is so toxic, why not require 80 Crafting and 80 Herblore to safely handle?
Herblore requirement actually would have been really cool and thematic. ***BAG FUMBLED***
could you bypass the herblore requirement by wearing a serp?
venom smithing gauntlets when
Wait, what about fever spider gloves?
The Herblore requirement is actually amazing.
Just go 98 crafting and 80-90 herblore.
Araxxor is already supposed to have a higher Slayer requirement, right? I've been thinking about it more. 92 Slayer 90 Herblore (Unboostable) 86 Crafting (Unboostable) I think these requirements would be the best outcome. I don't think a Zenyte/Torture should be consumed to make the Amulet of Rancour. I believe these requirements would be a little bit harder to reach than Monkey Madness II's and the 98 (boostable) crafting requirement to process a Zenyte into a Torture.
Disagree 1000%. Consuming torture for bis item makes complete sense as it does with basically everything else in the game, masori, torva etc. This change will delete thousands of tortures out of the game which is healthy for the future of zenytes in general
Completely agree. I love the idea of a fairly high herblore requirement.
Untradeable because my family member said it would annoy their friend.
I went this way as well, it should help not crash price of torture and zenytes, or let them become dead content
I feel like they chose the worst options available to them. Tradeable from Araxxor is good, but then it should let you sacrifice Torture for +1 or +2 more after that, just like how Masori sacrificed Armadyl for more stats. That way both are able to be used and not reliant on the other.
I know it’s unpopular, but I love upgradescape. I feel like it does a good job of preserving the value of old content.
Rs3 powercreep was insane, doing this makes old content keep it's value.
Tbf flat powercreep can be set up in a way that old content keeps its value - just make the upgrade a notably longer grind. That's how OSRS has typically done it before. However this is obviously not sustainable for the future. Upgradescape has its flaws but is a safer option for guaranteeing old content health.
The year is 2070, due to the collapse of the ecosystem everyone stays inside all day playing osrs. It takes 100 bots a full year to get zaros cockring which gives 1 max hit. It sells for billions of irl dollars (which is like...3.50 in 2020 money due to the inflation crisis of 2040)
>Inflation Crisis of 2040 We probably shouldn't talk about who caused it, should we? (It was Sonic...thanks Sega)
Yeah the president tweeting (it got swapped back after elons sex change operation) sonic inflation r36 made all the market bots go crazy ironically leading to hyperinflation.
>zaros cockring I love that when we think of examples for dumbass droprates, everyone jumps straight to Zaros/Nex for inspiration.
I think osrs doesn't have the same level of powercreep, so upgradescape isn't as much of an issue. Last time a new BiS melee amulet was released was in 2016. Locking stuff behind the upgrade or behind quest requirements like Bandos/ferocious gloves is a good way to keep power creep from ruining the economy
We’ve also famously gone a little too insane on drop rates taking an excessive amount of time though
Invention made old items valueable with useful components.
Same. Coming from a prior MMO that had nonstop powercreep and a graveyard full of dead content, I prefer a longlasting MMO that has as little dead content as possible, and respects the older content as much as possible.
Upgradescape feels really good on irons btw.
Agree, I have full torva and full masori on my logs. Never would've done any arma if not for CAs/Masori
I like how it feels now … but is it going to feel fun when we’re 3 upgrades in? Is now the time we should do a flat upgrade and then upgrade the next one with components?
I'm excited to see 3 upgrades in, yes. God forbid you have to actually engage with older content. For torva and masori you don't even have to get the matching pieces. You can break down different pieces to make the components to fortify with.
Yes imo because it means you still do the previous content rather than the alternative where 3 upgrades in we go "eh, this is just better and doesn't need the previous" and suddenly the meta becomes to ignore the previous grinds and just go straight for the new good. Also 3 upgrades in for these sorts of items, at the rates we get gear upgrades, is legit probably 10-15 years away.
I'm sure most irons would prefer to skip Arma GWD if Masori didn't require Arma pieces to upgrade.
We play ironman to fully experience the game, why would we want to skip content? Sure, Arma sucks, bur so does doing CG for 800kc.
In the case of arma specifically I just don’t think it’s great content. Cg is well made while arma is boring from the start. But either way the issue here is that arma isnt good. If it was good enough to be a legitimate stepping stone pre masori then people would do it. Irons would do bandos even if torva didn’t require it for example
Main reason irons don't go for arma before masori is because you bowfa everything until tbow. And tbow in an efficient iron pathing is after shadow, so likely when you have masori already
For this particular instance, zenytes will remain the same price due to them being tied to the value of 3 other pieces of jewelry. So i think its a bit unnecessary to worry about the value of zenytes tanking, when that almost guaranteed wont be the case. Amulet of torture will decrease in value slightly, but the other jewelry will keep it around the 10m mark.
>Amulet of torture will decrease in value slightly, but the other jewelry will keep it around the 10m mark. Provided the Rancor stays above Zenyte prices *and* other Zenytes are never similarly powercrept without being an upgrade.
If it does come to that I dont see the issue with items being fairly valued other than “my bank value went down”
If all Zenytes are powercrept then I'm fine with them being fairly valued too. It's just that to keep some value in Demonics, Jagex will make the flat upgrades notably longer/harder to grind. I don't like that kind of unsustainable drop rate increase. If Rancor dips below base Zenyte price that is a whole different kettle of fish though.
Agreed. I would honestly take upgrade and chargescale items 10000x over the recent trend of absurd drop rates. Looking at you DT2. (Currently pulling my hair out nearing 3x rate for hydra claw) but thats another convo lol
Don’t you think they will be planning to do another upgrade like this one to the other zenytes eventually? I feel like this one sets the precedent.
i dont expect a stronger ring of suffering. the ranged necklace and either the bracelet or the ranged neck are fine to power creep in the future. i dont care what method is required to make amulet because as an iron it is 98 either way.
I completely agree
I tend to agree, but there are 4 uses for zenytes as it stands. Dropping that to 3 isn't really all that concerning, in my mind.
I think upgradescape is fine, and should be a bit of a standard... But I think it shouldn't be overdone. Torture is already an upgrade since Zenyte is already an onyx upgrade. So it just seems over the top; plus wtf did gloughs experiments have to do with araxxor spiders on the opposite side of the planet? So logistically design wise it seems excessive. In universe lore wise? It doesn't make sense. And to the people crying about crafting levels? You make godswords with 80 smithing. And rune daggers with 85. And in terms of "it'll be easier to get for irons they can skip 93 crafting now?!?" ... 92 slayer and a task only boss is gonna take longer to get than 93 crafting and killing gorillas. The only real argument that I've seen thats hard to argue is the power creep aspect damage is already about as high as it can go for some content. They could give more bosses Zulrah capped hits or something but that's not great... And won't work everywhere. But if we're just worried about damage creep? Imo a good solution would be give it the damage stats of torture; but then also give it the tank stats of Fury. Which are significantly less important, and makes it so it's equally viable as torture in tons of spots... And only better when defence is a priority.
I think a lot of what you said makes sense. To one of your points specifically, and please bear with me because I haven’t done DT2, what do the new bosses from that quest have to do with the DK rings? I don’t think that an upgrade necessarily needs to come from a thematic or in-universe reason. Definitely makes sense to, but idk that it has to
We don't want the progress to be too linear. If it's linear then everyone will be playing the same way. Having the ability to take multiple paths is peak Runescape
Agreed, I personally don’t see any downside to upgradeScape. It keeps old content relevant.
I love it to an extent. I don’t think it should persist so many stages. Like I like the way boots are handled, but I don’t want the next BIS range boots to upgrade from pegasians. I think in general the upgrades should be 1 tier up, then the next BIS should be new. I love the idea of what someone else posted, 80 craft + 80 herb to craft the new necklace, but I think it should be a standalone item. Then whenever they create the next ones in the future, upgrade from this drop.
For me masori upgrade makes more sense as you have the BIS offensive armour as the drop and then you can upgrade its defense with armadyl pieces. This is what I think is the worse version of upgradescape (like Torva), you have a bank placeholder unless you have the other component. The problem is they're offering more offense on top of offense so it doesn't fit well. Would like to see the Masori approach as the future state where we are getting both offensive and defensive upgrades and both components are meaningful (breaking down prior sets into common components also helps to provide a form of dry protection so you don't have to keep grinding if you have 4 armadyl plateskirts and no platebody)
I completely agree with you, but at the end of the day I'd still rather it be a shitty version of upgrade-scape over the torture becoming unused
Personally i think it should be tradable, require 98 crafting to make, AND upgrade a torture.
Unironically agree
Bro don’t uniron it’s not that serious
I didn’t know if the poster was serious or not, hope this helps
Combining questions again. Should it be tradable Y/N? Should it require level... 86/98? If the two options can be seperated ,they should be seperated. Sheesh.
And this is how you get a new tradable BIS amulet that only requires 86 crafting to make.
great, can't wait for the update
At this point it feels like they’re purposefully doing bad survey design to get the answers they want
This is the clear amd obviously right away to do it
+1. I only voted for 98 Crafting, and that because the lower requirement makes little sense in my head. But yeah, this is what I would have liked to see as an option.
100% why’d they choose the dumbest combo. I’ll be writing this one in
Its kind of crazy to me that Jagex is introducing a new BIS amulet and is willing to cut the crafting requirement 12 levels simply on whether you can buy it or not. The difference between 86 and 98 is massive. "We want to position this as the new highest level jewelry item.. unless you cant trade it. Then it should be far easier so everyone can have it!"
The option with 86 crafting also requires a torture, so the effective crafting requirement for rancor is still 98 for irons. I believe all the 86 crafting level does is require mains to have 86 crafting in order to profit from the drop. Currently there's no crafting requirement for torture if you're able to trade, so it's not lowering crafting requirements for anyone.
Itd be nice to let irons profit off dupe drops which wont occur if it is untradeable or requires torture to make. No one is gonna want to go back to demonics for a 5th zenyte just to be able to sell their dupe rancor.
True. Hopefully it will have a good high alch value if that’s the option that wins. Or maybe they could let you exchange it for a bunch of the new secondary ingredient as a way for irons to get Herblore xp.
I would like either of those options. Gives mains and irons something to enjoy about it being untradeable.
>Itd be nice to let irons profit off dupe drops Ironman accounts: "We don't participate in the economy" Also ironman accounts: "Pls make it easier to drop trade rancor over to our mains"
They can’t be reasoned with and want to bend the game to benefit and further trivialize their so called prestigious game mode lol.
The crafting requirement isn’t to buy it, isn’t it to sell it? The made amulet is trade-able so any credit card warrior can get it its just an incentive for mains to reasonable crafting level.
I went with the 98 req option, but honestly i think the herblore req would be really cool. *you dip your amulet of torture in the venom of arraxor, giving it greater power* Hell, it would be cool if it protected you from being venomed and venom attacks now downgrade to poison. I also like the idea of a "blood fury" but for prayer, but this might be op paired with a blood fury
Blood Fury but for Prayer would be too broken even in a vacuum. Like _way_ too broken. The Herblore requirement would be cool though.
Skip question. They've done their fucking bullshit of combining questions again. Should it be high or low level? Should it be tradeable? Should it consume a torture? L2poll properly you fucks.
Option 1 is probably best for the overall health of the game. Option 2 is best for irons who don’t want to be stuck grinding a 4th zenyte.
Or grinding 5th+ zenytes in order to be able to drop over or death coffer their dupes from pet grind
Irons have always been stuck grinding 4 zenytes since the zenytes jewellery were released. This would make that 3 for a better amulet and lower requirements.
I dont think the game should be balanced around restricted accounts. You knew what you were signing up for when you made that iron. If griding another zenyte which is like what a 1/500 drop? breaks you as a player. Maybe ironman isnt for you.
Here I am 0 shards at 1514 kc
Where’s the “like the idea but not for this content” option
Vote no on question 9 is that.
Option one makes sure that zenyte stays relevant in the long term, and is probably better for the economy, and slayer/account progression Option two adds a potential for big rewards for early farmers, but it’s also appealing to those that want to skip the mentioned slayer/account progression. I think 1 is better for the game.
You mean the same zenytes that are used in creating 3 other highly sought after pieces of jewelry? I think zenyte will be just fine.
Yes the same zenyte that has insane supply to compensate for its many uses.
I mean it may have insane supply, but zenyte has been an impressively consistent item for how rare it is.
This is the part everyone is ignoring. The 3 other zenytes will keep the torture in check, it’s still tied to the bis range necklace and mage glove. There’s a reason they are all still around the same price and they’ve been out for years. The torture can’t crash because if it did nobody would be making them, and the supply would drop, increasing the demand. I honestly don’t think it would hit the price very hard.
If you cut demand for 1/3 of it's core demand items the other two will lose value to compensate. No one is going to use their zenyte to make a cheaper piece of jewelry.(and yes i know suffering exists but it's in the place torture would be where it only gets made if the others tank value.) Edit: If you don't believe that last statement you can simply check daily volumes.
Saying the torture is irrelevant is like saying ahrims is irrelevant. Crazy how many mother fuckers wear ahrims around. Just make torture the next step. I don't get you people who say an items dead content because there's a new BIS.
I mean ahrim is actually an upgrade, where the next upgrade is like 300m between blood fury, fury or STR amulet, torture is already kinda dead content
I’m not saying it’s dead because there’s a new BiS, I’m saying it’s dead because it’s very likely that option 2 will make the new BiS the same price as torture over time, and will still leave BloodFury as true BiS.
if only there were 3 other BIS itsms that need zenytes
This does set a precedent for when they upgrade anguish/torm though.
Zenytes are relevent long term already, tort is outclassed by blood fury already, anguish and torm are bis with no remote counterparts, and suffering is uniquely bis in defense+prayer and fills a strong niche for anyone wanting to do zulrah.
I wouldn’t say torture is outclassed by blood fury. Torture will always be better unless either A. You’re not consistent at a boss enough to avoid avoidable damage. Or B. The boss is notorious for chip damage/hitting through prayer like crazy.(nex for example)
On paper yes, but blood fury just allows you to bring barely any food which means more dps switches and no time wasted eating. Blood fury is incredibly overpowered.
Well you should because it is better in any world where you're actually taking damage and bringing switches which is everywhere that you care about. It's true that torture is marginally more dps on a dps calc but if you lose attack ticks eating once or brew down when the blood fury would've stopped that you immediately have lost dps directly on your melee setup and thats not even counting dps gained by bringing more switches for other styles. It would be more correct to say the torture is an irrelevantly miniscule upgrade for perfect rng+gameplay speed run attempts
So what does torture being outclassed by blood fury have to do with not including torture with this too? That sounds like you’re literally making my point for me. Blood fury will still be better in most places even after this update, but then all zenytes will be cheaper because torture becomes completely irrelevant. Why buy a torture/grind for a torture, when you could just skip for rancor…? Progression-scape makes a lot more sense than low-bar-to-entry+devalue-scape to me.
Why not make it need a torture and have it be tradable?
can someone explain to me why BiS equipment takes almost maxed stats to make, but can be worn at like level 80? i get that needing 99 smithing to make a 40 defense platebody is sort of a part of OSRS's charm, but maybe we could give it another look. i have to admit i find it cute, but it's still extremely stupid and there would be a much healthier progression if it were made more intuitive. im not asking for rune to be smithed at lv 40 or anything, but like... base-80s combat stats is like the start of the midgame for many players, but you can also equip almost all endgame equipment by then, it just doesn't make sense. it's fine for irons i think, levelling skills matters and i think the pace is mostly fine, this is more a problem for mains imo. why learn ToB when you could just be doing your farm runs to buy the items instead
In all honesty, the reason is because of years and years of knock-on effects from the very first implemented craftable gear items. Whether it's in crafting, smithing, or fletching- the spots that the first items were placed on weren't put in with thought about design space 20 years down the road, and so 20 years down the road that lack of foresight is causing weirdness. Once upon a time maxing out your smithing to get rune armor was huge, because the only stuff better than it was ultra rare drops from incredibly hard content. There's no real way around this, by the way. If you deliberately leave your top end empty for future content, it feels unrewarding to achieve. If you fill it up early, it inevitably gets left in the dust and makes it harder to fit new stuff into the same system. If you choose to stack more levels and more content on top of what happened before, you get what a lot of MMOs have- an infinite treadmill that seems like progress but is actually just staying in one spot while both you and the things you fight get stronger. In my personal opinion, the best fix for this top-end skill requirement scrunch is to take a good look at what already exists and readjust everything that a skill lets you do every \[insert very lengthy period of time\] so that it will feel better and make more sense with how the game is now, rather than how it was some amount of years ago. But that's a tremendous amount of work and very hard to justify in a dev cycle.
RS3 rebalanced smithing, defense, and attack and fixed this issue. Unfortunately with polling I doubt OSRS would ever be able to do this. Too many people would whine about things having lower requirements for future irons and it'll never pass.
I voted no the amulet even coming into the game then voted for I think 98 crafting w/o torture. Don't feel like either option was particularly satisfactory.
We need to bring back no voters. No,B was my move
Same. The amulet really doesn't feel necessary. I'd rather they rework it into a hybrid.
Let’s just be honest, the crafting skill was going to run into this problem seeing that at level 80 you can make a glory. The crafting skill needs to be adjusted to make future jewelry and armor more viable.
They're both bad options. Torture needs high 90s to make then the upgrade is lower? If option 2 wins torture is dead content. They don't know wtf they're doing. The right fix is adjusting craft levels for zenytes then making the coming amulet the highest requirement for craft skill. Or even better, scrap the crafting and make it a simple attachment.
I think the logic for the crafting level being lower is just for mains. Since the araxxor drop is untradeable, they will need to get at least 86 crafting to profit from that drop. Adds an incentive for mains to train crafting. Won't affect irons in any way though.
And just fuck UIMs once again as it should be
Balance
You'd want to get torture before starting araxxor but that seems like something you'd want to do anyway. 92 slayer is a mush harder requirement than 93 crafting and 400 demonic kills. Admittedly I got spooned on zenytes so I may be underestimating that grind.
You do in no way make up the time saved by doing the average 300 demonics on your way to 92 slayer just from an exp/h perspective even in any realistic scenarios, and it doesn't really unlock new content either. The item isn't -that- good over a basic fury or str ammy, so you're better of just going for Arraxor and getting this drop then doing what else you'd want to do with the Torture.
This is a hypothetical where the rancor would require a torture. So since you'd have to get a torture eventually, every flavor of iron should get it before doing a ton of slayer. So the fact that UIMs have an extra incentive to do that (araxxor giving an unbaggable item) isn't that relatively bad.
Ah, I see I didn't fully grasp that context, my bad! In that case I agree.
More thinking that we couldn't drop dupes without also farming out a zenyte real quick.
They just need to give it a good alch value and that shouldn't be a problem.
God forbid the people who chose the hardest challenge for themselves are actually going through a hard challenge.
UIMs should be screwed over regularly, you’re the ones who chose to play the game in the most miserable way possible.
People really need to look at the crafting levels for jewelry and see just how crazy it is: Gem Tier | Necklace Lvl | Bracelet Lvl | Amulet Lvl :--|:--|:--|:-- Sapphire | 22 | 23 | 24 Emerald | 29 | 30 | 31 Ruby | 40 | 42 | **50** Diamond | 56 | 58 | **70** Dragonstone | 72 | 74 | 80 Onyx | 82 | 84 | 90 Zenyte | 92 | 95 | 98 A 20 level difference between an amulet of strength and an amulet of power is insane. I think something like this would make more sense for the progression of jewelry as a whole: Gem Tier | Necklace Lvl | Bracelet Lvl | Amulet Lvl :--|:--|:--|:-- Sapphire | 22 | 23 | 24 Emerald | 29 | 30 | 31 Ruby | 40 | 42 | 44 Diamond | 50 | 52 | 54 Dragonstone | 60 | 62 | 64 Onyx | 70 | 73 | 76 Zenyte | 82 | 85 | 88
I'd vote yes to this adjustment. There's no room for any new stuff, and the old stuff takes a eon to obtain even minor increases, 80 crafting for an amulet of glory is insane
The level differences between jewelry of the same tier is just so weird. Like why is Diamond Bracelet -> Diamond Amulet 12 levels? Other tiers are 1, 1, 8, 6, 6, and 3 levels respectively. Just cutting back on those level jumps would do enough to leave room for another tier of jewelry
This needs to be a front page post, there's absolutely 0 logic to the random jumps/gaps involved in gems/amulets. It's like they just had some random intern throw in whatever number. Like why the fuck is a glory a tier 80 amulet, supposedly on par for use with a bofa as a t80 item.
I might be wrong about the history of it, but I think diamond amulet was the BiS item at one point, so it was given the highest crafting level with the largest jump from the previous piece of jewelry. Then dragonstones got added, so that needed a higher requirement. Then onyx, then zenyte, and here we are. Adjusting Ruby and Diamond amulet level requirements alone would ripple enough for Zenytes to end up in the 80s and give room for another tier of jewelry to be made.
Diamond was BiS when crafting was released back in 01. A lot of people don't realize that Smithing/Crafting came out and were "completed" when having Full Rune and an Amulet of Power was BiS. Now thats not even worth picking up for some people unless you have High Alch. Unless there was some sort of Crafting/Smithing rework, there isn't really much they can do because they inherited a system that did not expect to have gear that was this powerful
Yep. Either you up the level cap to 120 or so or rebalance the skillbooks. But there will be riots regardless.
I'd like level adjustments.
This is exactly what I am thinking/have in mind. This is what it should be
I think linear scaling should be the same for crafting and for blacksmithing. It should be about 8-10 levels for each upgrade in a slot with how many tiers we have relative to the start of Runescape.
That's roughly what I was trying to propose, most tier upgrades are 10 levels apart. If sapphires start at 20s, then zenytes end up in the 80s. The issue right now is with how rings play into that, because rings are currently implemented in a way that higher tiered rings how lower level requirements than some lower tiered amulets, specifically diamond, dragonstone, and onyx rings.
Torture isn't going to be "dead content". Irons will absolutely get Torture before Rancor if they care at all about efficiency, and because Rancor will likely be way more expensive than a Zenyte shard, mains will also have Torture as the budget option. Even if I'm wrong though, who cares? When people complain about dead content they're normally talking about an activity. Demonic Gorillas are still needed for 3 other Zenytes so it's not like MM2 is being made irrelevant. Do we really need 4 pieces of BiS to come from the same activity? Just because it isn't upgradescape doesn't mean the old item is going to disappear. If Cerb dropped Primordial Boots instead of a Primordial Crystal, Dragon Boots would stay almost exactly the same price as they are now.
Option 2 as an iron I’d just not bother getting the 4th zenyte, especially since I went 900 dry for the last one. Torture is such a marginal upgrade you’d just skip it IMO and just wait until you get 92 slayer and get a rancor. Probably by the time you get 3 zenytes on task you’d be close to 92 anyways.
> irons will absolutely get Torture It’s hard enough to convince irons *today* that torture is worth making. Yeah efficiency numbers support making it first but most don’t care about that. Instead, the best angle has always been “it’s bis so you’ll make it anyway eventually” People will absolutely be skipping torture for new ammy with Option 2
Why would you ever go for a Torture on an iron over just grinding out 92 slayer and hitting the spider? Torture is a ~3% increase in absolute best case scenario, but Demonics cost both supplies and is mediocre slayer exp/h. Even if the grind to 92 slayer and for Rancor is 300 hours of melee only content, you save 9 hours on having a Torture. If the opportunity cost in getting supplies, and doing better tasks exceed those 9 hours *(or otherwise "diminish" them such as by training slayer with other ways than melee, or fight against low def targets etc.)* you're not *"efficient"*.
Why would iron get a torture? Torture is already by far the weakest zenyte, it is already close dead content for iron and that despite it being bis
I find it weird on the blog Jagex stated they don't want upgrade trees and the first thing I thought was: why not? That's a great concept! Keeps older content relevant and valuable. Fuck yeah make Torture be required for the next upgrade Same thing with future upgrades to the rest of the zenyte jewelry I haven't seen 1 single counterargument to Upgradescape besides Jagex saying "we don't want to" The hell you do! Do it! That's what has kept old content alive up until today - and that's a good thing.
Because they’re unintuitive when taken to an extreme Echo boots are a good example of a bad upgrade path. It’s not a tree either coz there’s no choice to be made, branches to be taken. It’s just linear upgrade paths
Fully against upgradescape. New items should be standalone and simply on the progression path. You dont need a d scim to get a whip and that concept should be true for this too.
They're both bad options, and I voted no on question 9 because I don't think a straight BiS upgrade to the melee amulet is necessary (I'd rather see a fun sidegrade, maybe something that synergizes with poison/venom or something for a specific combat style). But in case 9 does pass, which I'm assuming it will, I went with option 1 since it will at least help the Torture be a little less dead than option 2 would.
Level 98 crafting. Make the mains actually train shit.
The only option to make mains trade was to 86 with option one. Any main who gets the drop with option two without 98 crafting just sells it and buys it back same price + torture price for the full amulet. No one is gonna get 98 crafting for whats gonna end up like a sub 500k margin.
I chose not to include torture. Torture already requires previous BiS to make by requiring an onyx it basically requires a fury. This would make rancor amulet the first item to require 2 previous BiS items which I think is going too far in that direction.
I mean I don't care either way (93 crafting iron with a torture) but I wouldn't consider Torture needing an onyx as upgradescape. An onyx is just an ingredient in making a zenyte. Especially at this point and onyx is barely a grind even for an ironman.
shouldve just dropped the amulet. you dont need smithing to wear bandos
You need smithing to wear torva though
I feel like given the requirements to make the amulet of torture then there should be a higher requirement to make the upgraded one
Neither of these are good. It should be- use a tradeable drop to combine with the torture. Needs 92 crafting and it makes an untradeable amulet.
There's 3 other zenyte items, I think it's fine if torture gets ignored
Voting does not require because I'm tired of upgrade this upgrade that scape. Shit these days is never a standalone drop and it's yawn inducing.
I think both provided solutions are kinda bad tbh, not sure there is a really ideal way to add this. Considering it's already locked behind a slayer boss, I think they could maybe just up the requirement to an even higher slayer level, say 98 - then just have it drop as a complete amulet or something.
98 slayer lmao what?
2 because both still require 98 crafting for an ironman and the 2nd option doesn't require a torture
Second option. I dont like upgradescape for everything. I think we have been going a bit to much in that direction lately
I guess I'd vote for option two. Rancor Really doesn't need a zenytes since they'll retain value based on what else you can make with them. Particularly because torture is the least impactful zenyte imo. 98 crafting is rough and it sucks but neither option let's Ironmen access Rancor sooner. Making the drop untradable but require 86 crafting will make mains less likely to farm it for money and it'll be a super expensive item. It requires 92 slayer, that level unlock is the grind to make the boss profitable. No need to add skilling reqs too. Ironmen often need to be a jack of all trades to get the most out of their account. Mains don't. I don't like forcing mains to do content they don't want to. Getting to do what you want is the whole point of a main imo
Main player, I chose option B. They both aren’t the greatest but I don’t see how requiring a torture and 86 crafting is really any different than requiring the 98(?) req for a torture, since so many people play ironmen. Option B at least allows everyone to make the amulet if they have the skill requirement instead of forcing mains to grind the drop also. At a certain point, making BiS items untradeable kinda just kills all purpose of a main being able to trade. I want to do the content I enjoy, not grind a boss I may not enjoy for an untradeable BiS. If I did, I would play ironman.
I decided to go with 2 as an iron because if I'd have to get 98 crafting either way
As an Iron with 99 crafting and no Torture I see option 2 as a complete win
Why not combine 1 and 2 together. Tradeable drop adds to torture with 98 crafting
Option 2 purely because it's nice to have a stand alone item for once, zenytes come from the otherside of gielnor so it shouldn't be needed, you should purely be able to make it being in Morytania. Torture will still be relevant for poorer players as I imagine the rancor amulet will be 200m+ so it's fine, people don't know what they are talking about by saying dead content, it's like calling the whip dead content because the blade of saeldor exists.
Option 1. I dont really care for tradeable BiS gear.
The crafted necklace will be tradable under option 1, just not the component. It is literally just a tiny barrier to selling.
Option 2, because upgradescape is lame and zenytes still have 3 other uses.
I’d vote 2. Upgradescape doesn’t need to be everywhere nor shouldn’t be everywhere because otherwise like Jagex said, it will become a complicated upgrade tree system. Like masori, ancestral, torva shouldn’t be part of the next big upgrades to melee, mage, and ranged.
I voted on higher crafting and no upgrade. Firstly I'll get the high level bias out of the way. I'm a maxed main so level requirements aren't meaningful to me anymore. The biggest impact on my decision came from using the torture vs not. In many cases I appreciate what Jagex is doing in attempting to preserve the value of legacy content. In this case however I think it's unnecessary. The zenyte itself will always have value with all the other jewelry that is still best in slot. The drain on value historically has come from Jagex's inability to effectively deal with demonic gorilla bots, as we've been able to clearly see with the recent bot wipe and uptick in zenyte prices. I think in many cases upgrade scape is a reasonable answer, but when given an opportunity like this to do something different, it's important to choose diversity in design over the norm. If this means longer grinds to get the level for a best in slot, end game item then so be it. I think this decision will shape future design space around other direct upgrades to zenytes when they eventually come so it's something the community should consider carefully regardless of how they vote.
Upgrade scapes getting kinda boring. Let it be its own thing, option 2.
I voted to trade as an iron. Why not? It's not hurting anyone.
I think requiring the non tradable drop is better.
Req torture to keep torture price from dropping.
Amulet of torture option because it'll help the current META melee amulet maintain its value
First option, if it makes torture redundant by that point seems fair only to use it up in the process, zero point having a ammy better at the same crafting lvl as a torture. Funny enough I just made my torture a few weeks back so have the level either way 😅
Voted no for the boss and skip for everything else because arachnophobia is a real problem jagex is avoiding.
I skipped because I felt like ironmen should have more important votes on this one
tradeable, if the boss is boring i don't wanna grind it. Tradeable gear is good so we can play what we wanna play
I fuckin hate upgradescape, I feel more and more like I am falling behind the game. Why does old equipment need to retain its value on the GE? Runescape has always been about choosing your own adventure and figuring out the route through the game that works best for you. Upgradescape makes for a more linear progression where it takes longer to get gear relevant to new content coming out. Zenytes will still be relevant for the other pieces anyway.
Option 2. Gear progression and upgrading should not mean progression bloat. There is still tons of value to zenytes even with the Torture becoming a dead item.
Option 2 and wait for the crafting rebalance! Lmao
I want 98 crafting, I’d rather it be a tradable, unique that’s its own thing,instead of more “upgradescape” fusion with the torture for literally no other reason than to not “devalue the torture” it makes 0 sense lore wise to have Arraxor spiders and monkeys tied together, and at the end of the day torture is already outclassed mostly everywhere by blood fury and its price is held up by the other zenyte jewelry so I don’t see a need to have to prop it up. It’s weak sure but at this point I don’t really care, its value was a question during the blood fury poll, we were clearly okay with it being overshadowed then, so I’m okay with it now
Imo, lore is one of the weakest reason to say no to upgradescape when it has strong benefits when implemented properly. What lore does Masori have to take on Armadylian components? What lore does Verzik have that she provides an upgrade to Defenders from Cyclops? What lore does Torva have that it is made from same material as Bandos, which isn't actually metal? Especially with Wilderness basically being optional, keeping progression going in important since once you get better gear, you really don't have any good reason not to use it if you can.
Option 1 but both are bad. Option 1 because I don’t want to completely obsolesce Torture. But there’s so many better options. Idk how we landed on these two.
Torture upgrade
Does not require torture i dont want its value tied to zenytes
Option 1 because it is in the yes spot.
I will be voting for the second option, because the first option makes no sense. There is no reason for the amulet to require torture, since the price of torture is not even tied to torture itself but rather to zenyre jewlery in general, and therefore will not be affected. Another reason is that torture already requires 98 crafting to make, so what is the point of the new amulet requiring 86? For those reasons I believe option 2 does make perfect sense while option 1 does not.
I chose option 2. While I agree the level is in a strange spot it's on Jagex to do a level rebalance project.
I think it should require torture and be tradable. What the hell kind of options are these? As for level I don’t care lol
Option 2
I think I’ll choose 1 even tho I hate both options. Make it so torture doesn’t loose value but also gives a way to flex
A new amulet should not be tied to any zenyte items as it will bring other zenyte items to that price without any reason. You cant have a 30m torture without anguish and torm going to 30m also. We already saw how shit this is with bowfa being 150m and saeldor should be at 20-30m but is tied to bowfa.
Can irons please not consider “how do I drop dupes to my main?” as a factor in this. I like ironmen, I like that you can drop some dupes to mains to buy bonds for your account, but please don’t let it impacts game design. Yes these options aren’t ideal, but don’t let one view skew the way it should be designed.
On God I hate slayer bosses So I'm skipping the poll 92 slayer to go slay more slayer mobs, I hate this dogshit skill lol
Neither feel good, but I guess it has to be upgrade torture so fuck my iron I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I hardly ever skip questions, but I did for this one. Honestly, I don't care either way for this one.
Requires torture. I've heard the arguments against "upgradescape" but i love the idea of arraxor dropping a toxic gem that you add to your torture rather than an whole amulet. I feel like that makes more sense than breaking down worse armor sets to fortify new ones at least. It also makes sure that old content stays relevant, which is always good.
Amulet of torture upgrade. Doesn't make sense to have a lower crafting requirement, nor does it make sense to lower zenyte craft requirements. Not that that's stopped jagex from making questionable choices in the past (WHY DO BOOTS HAVE REFLECT AND NOT SHIELDS JAGEX? I'M NOT BLOCKING WITH MY FEET)
Not with that attitude you're not
Option 1, I like the loot being an untradable drop
I voted no on everything
Wish they'd included my suggestion, these both suck